Database Users

Potentially speed up our N1's in the near future?

Just read this article here:
http://androinica.com/2010/02/08/wa...ts-3xs-faster-myriad-wants-to-give-it-to-you/
Wonder what that's going to mean for us?

Exactly as described in the article: better performance and better battery life.

Sounds cool, hopefully they're working on integrating this.

Sounds good.
Currently, though, the N1 can sometimes be choppy because the homescreen uses processing power instead of the GPU. I'm hoping Google will get around to fixing that, because as it stands the GPU is utilized very little.

grainysand said:
Sounds good.
Currently, though, the N1 can sometimes be choppy because the homescreen uses processing power instead of the GPU. I'm hoping Google will get around to fixing that, because as it stands the GPU is utilized very little.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you have a source for this information? It makes sense and I've been wondering why my homescreen lags a bit sometimes while my buddies Sprint Hero runs smooth.
Would be awesome if they found a way to fix it like you say

that would be AMAZING! Mostly for G1, MT3G... owners but i also wouldn t mind it on my N1!!!
Add a better keyboard and open up the RAM, to that new engine and we will have the ultimate phone!

I'm assuming that this 'turbo' dalvik uses some kind of just in time compilation to achieve it's speed increases.
As such, this is already available in android 2.*, but disabled currently as it's experimental.

noodles12 said:
Do you have a source for this information? It makes sense and I've been wondering why my homescreen lags a bit sometimes while my buddies Sprint Hero runs smooth.
Would be awesome if they found a way to fix it like you say
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
'Fraid I don't--I remember having read it somewhere, likely on this forum. People've noted that some home replacement apps will run smoother than the stock launcher, however, as those apps make full use of the GPU.
I tried out home replacements for a while, didn't like any of them, and have since set my "window animation" under Settings -> Display to "Some animation." Homescreen no longer lags unless I'm using one of those questionably-optimized third-party live wallpapers.

grainysand said:
'Fraid I don't--I remember having read it somewhere, likely on this forum. People've noted that some home replacement apps will run smoother than the stock launcher, however, as those apps make full use of the GPU.
I tried out home replacements for a while, didn't like any of them, and have since set my "window animation" under Settings -> Display to "Some animation." Homescreen no longer lags unless I'm using one of those questionably-optimized third-party live wallpapers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
reading this does remind me i have noticed something that I did find strange.
Using the stock launcher with only 3 pages of widgets and shortcuts, it shows I have about 230mb ram free in Taskpanel.
But when i use Home++, with the same layout, icons and widgets i get near the 270mb free ram mark.
I understand Task Panel may not be the most accurate or whatever but I've done this a few times and it must be something different.

Sorry for the off topic. Im starting to notice something with posts is all... using taskpanel i have never seen more than 80Mb RAM free. thats after killing all background tasks. How the hell are you showing 230Mb?

He is presumably using the highmem kernel.

Gingerbread... What Is In Store For Us?

I'm interested in hearing peoples opinions on this.
1. Do you think Gingerbread will bring a complete interface overhaul? I'm talking animations, images, layouts, multi tasking, notifications, launcher & more
2. Do you think it'll be like sense, improving social network integration, tidying up a lot of images images and adding a bit more functionality to widgets etc?
3. Do you think it'll be like a skin, simply taking image files that exist throughout Android and making them look more modern?
If they do infact do (1), do you think we'll lose functionality of some applications? Will apps have to be designed or positioned differently on Gingerbread?
I'm very excited for this, especially after seeing a video of MeeGo OS running on a smart phone, it looked so fly. In my opinion Google is going to need big changes to compete with MeeGo's interface (Not saying MeeGo is gonna take out Android, just saying it looked really nice & polished compared to Android's current state).
Google did good work in 2.1 with the launcher, app draw, animated backgrounds etc. but the stock images, buttons etc look so old. I think it needs an overhaul!

Well apparently 3.0 is gonna give the whole UI and device a revamp of looks so i cant wait to see what they do, I hope they make android become as polished as ios and bring smoother scrolling in.
LevitateJay said:
I'm interested in hearing peoples opinions on this.
1. Do you think Gingerbread will bring a complete interface overhaul? I'm talking animations, images, layouts, multi tasking, notifications, launcher & more
2. Do you think it'll be like sense, improving social network integration, tidying up a lot of images images and adding a bit more functionality to widgets etc?
3. Do you think it'll be like a skin, simply taking image files that exist throughout Android and making them look more modern?
If they do infact do (1), do you think we'll lose functionality of some applications? Will apps have to be designed or positioned differently on Gingerbread?
I'm very excited for this, especially after seeing a video of MeeGo OS running on a smart phone, it looked so fly. In my opinion Google is going to need big changes to compete with MeeGo's interface (Not saying MeeGo is gonna take out Android, just saying it looked really nice & polished compared to Android's current state).
Google did good work in 2.1 with the launcher, app draw, animated backgrounds etc. but the stock images, buttons etc look so old. I think it needs an overhaul!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

msavic6 said:
...and bring smoother scrolling in.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This... very much, this.
It's amazing to me that third-party launcher replacements offer perfectly smooth scrolling and the stock OS doesn't. I don't get it.

I also want a whole new camera interface with more control, and a built in note pad,to-do list, the basic functionality of a regular cell phone, better market support like the ability to block certain developers apps from appearing and higher quality apps as well as maybe a ui revamp in the market app. Also make more use of the gpu for graphcs. One last thing add a stock widget that displays time and weather and make it AMAZING.
Thats all i really want
OH and a better stock keyboard.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App

My predictions.
- Hopefully a new Multitasking UI
- Improved or customizable notification bar( hasn't changed since 1.0)
- General graphic UI revamp.
A Google employee said of you look at the Nexus One gallery app,expect a similar vibe for the whole UI in Gingerbread.

Oh god, we're just two days into august, the speculation can't start now. Gingerbread was mentioned to be released at the end of the year, which probably means Q1 of 2011. That's quite a ways away!
Once you get this gingerbread speculation rolling, we'll never see the end of it, considering it's only august!

Forge94 said:
A Google employee said of you look at the Nexus One gallery app,expect a similar vibe for the whole UI in Gingerbread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really like the sound of this although I can't think of how they would do this? I really wanna see a web os like multi tasking too

erikikaz said:
Oh god, we're just two days into august, the speculation can't start now. Gingerbread was mentioned to be released at the end of the year, which probably means Q1 of 2011. That's quite a ways away!
Once you get this gingerbread speculation rolling, we'll never see the end of it, considering it's only august!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Speculation can never begin too early!
If anything, we're late.

I think they are gonna allow us to customize the UI as we see fit. All those Themes and UI's in the Nexus Forum will be able to be added to stock Android's without rooting.

Blueman101 said:
I think they are gonna allow us to customize the UI as we see fit. All those Themes and UI's in the Nexus Forum will be able to be added to stock Android's without rooting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Neat idea, although I think they'll still need a very nice & tidy stock version/overhaul to go with this as a lot of people will review the stock interface, rather than how you can customise it & many will never bother changing it too I imagine! (I don't understand those sort of people )

I think most of this UI overhaul is pure speculation based on the fact that google hired Palm webOS Designer Matias Duarte. He cannot possibly bring so much change in the few months he has been at google. But I will keep my hopes high that they can give a more smoother UI experience (where android phones/netbooks with additional graphics chip can take advantage of its hardware).
A strong and capable google official Theme Maker app (like metamorph) can bring alot of enthusiasm behind it. Would be tough though with so many unique android devices out there, how can they accommodate them all? :S

mythamp said:
I think most of this UI overhaul is pure speculation based on the fact that google hired Palm webOS Designer Matias Duarte. He cannot possibly bring so much change in the few months he has been at google. But I will keep my hopes high that they can give a more smoother UI experience (where android phones/netbooks with additional graphics chip can take advantage of its hardware).
A strong and capable google official Theme Maker app (like metamorph) can bring alot of enthusiasm behind it. Would be tough though with so many unique android devices out there, how can they accommodate them all? :S
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i agree. i also believe that many people speculate that Duarte will bring in many UI changes, but as you said we are talking about 3 months which isn't enough time for a person manage to change the whole look of an OS.
i would be happy if google could at least get their act together with the homescreen which is still laggy as hell and the app drawer which has laggy zoom animations on froyo.
Having all those great benchmarks is cool and sometimes froyo is really fast, but especially the homescreen is a huge letdown.
And the homescreen is the place which you will see most of the time...

Shahpur.Azizpour said:
i agree. i also believe that many people speculate that Duarte will bring in many UI changes, but as you said we are talking about 3 months which isn't enough time for a person manage to change the whole look of an OS.
i would be happy if google could at least get their act together with the homescreen which is still laggy as hell and the app drawer which has laggy zoom animations on froyo.
Having all those great benchmarks is cool and sometimes froyo is really fast, but especially the homescreen is a huge letdown.
And the homescreen is the place which you will see most of the time...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If it's laggy with you i suggest you return your device and get a new one... because this problem doesn't exist on the 3 nexus ones i've used.

I didn't realise he only had 3 months to work with it... :/
Although I imagine he has quite a team working with him to get a lot done in whatever time they have!

I'm running stock Froyo and I don't notice any lag in the homescreen and the app drawer. I installed Launcherpro before and I didn't notice any difference in scrolling. Both stock homescreen and Launcherpro homescreen have smooth scrolling.
Maybe someone can direct me with a video that can show me what a laggy scrolling is like.

yeah i dont get the laggy scrolling either, but then again i use launcher pro for so long now. i'm getting really sick of people comparing choppy scrolling, i want to make a video showing otherwise!! i'll admit certain UI lists do get choppy. but most are not so.

oh and doesnt anybody listen to android podcasts? last week android guys podcast leaked a little rumor that gingerbread was all about tablets, heard from someone directly involved. make of that what you will.

im personally against making the UI look more like iOS... i like the direction that windows 7 mobile is headed with the simplistic 2 tone menus and choice of text over icons.. things like pretty scrolling and fancy animated icons add more bloat

nobody said anything about making the UI look like an iphone, it was said to make the UI be AS POLISHED as the ios is.
norazi said:
im personally against making the UI look more like iOS... i like the direction that windows 7 mobile is headed with the simplistic 2 tone menus and choice of text over icons.. things like pretty scrolling and fancy animated icons add more bloat
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Gingerbread will make Android look like the Gallery app. If you watch the Google I/O videos on YouTube you see that a new music app is being used which has the UI of the current Gallery app.
So when they were showing off FroYo back at the conference, they already had some work done for Gingerbread.

Gningerbread teased in voice search video tutorial

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dugI-robCuQ

Make that Gingerbread....that's what i get for rushing a thread before lunch.

Nice find. Am I alone in preferring the current look?
Sent from my CM6.1 powered HTC EVO 4G using Tapatalk

niiiiice!!!!!!!!!

I hoped in new and more transitions effects...
but the major thing i don't understand is why some google widgets are white, and others are black...why don't keep it coherent, it would result much better

Even though green is my favorite color, it didn't look to good in the low quality pics that had been leaked so far. They were all blurry and I think over-saturated as well. But seeing it clearly now it looks much better then I had previously thought.
Also, I like that it's being demonstrated on an N1 still. Take that NS

Here's a screenshot of it, for everyones convenience.

More thumbs from the video at Engadget.
The new launcher graphic looks awful; and what's up with the boxy look of everything? Basic UI stuff like radio buttons look AWFUL now. I'd rather they look completely flat (black/white only) then the cartoon-like gray-ish flat graphics they decided to use in Gingerbread - in fact, I much prefer the Froyo look. Popups are now boring looking, even more so than before which is quite a accomplishment. The status bar is a mixed bag, in the blurry pics I hated it, now I only kind of hate it. I think I can get into a black bar but the icons looks worse - not that the olds were perfect but they were overall better than what I'm seeing here.
Overall I'd rather have the old Froyo look with 3D-gallery-app-like UI overhauls of other central apps, more core OS animations and maybe HW acceleration.
-Just an opinion from somebody who works professionally as a designer and who had high expectations for 2.3/Gingerbread.

Award Tour said:
had high expectations for 2.3/Gingerbread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why? Google has never said what changes are coming in Gingerbread, and EVERY bit of factual evidence thus far has pointed to no major UI changes.

Hopefully you are able to choose between a white or black status bar and the froyo or gingerbread dock.

GldRush98 said:
Why? Google has never said what changes are coming in Gingerbread, and EVERY bit of factual evidence thus far has pointed to no major UI changes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that my friend...i believe is actually true.
it seems as though gingerbread is going to be a somewhat minor update. changes to the market, maybe changes to music and one or two more things.
if it does turn out to be a relatively minor update (compared to froyo) i would expect that honeycomb will be released a lot sooner than expected...maybe February/march

adam18488 said:
that my friend...i believe is actually true.
it seems as though gingerbread is going to be a somewhat minor update. changes to the market, maybe changes to music and one or two more things.
if it does turn out to be a relatively minor update (compared to froyo) i would expect that honeycomb will be released a lot sooner than expected...maybe February/march
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fair enough; but who wouldn't consider this to be the most significant visual change since Android's initial release? I would, and like I said, the visual changes in my opinion have so far been bad.

moelester518 said:
Hopefully you are able to choose between a white or black status bar and the froyo or gingerbread dock.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't count on it.

Looks like someone made a boo-boo, the video has been taken down now.

yea, the video has been removed by user.

ahahah i saw it but you can't

The people over at Google HQ obviously need to consult with the MIUI graphic designers (consult with someone, please..). No, I don't want Android looking like an iPhone, but the other various changes they made simply just kill the default Vanilla design. Especially the music application. Honestly stock Android looks pathetic at this point compared to other User Interfaces.. very disappointing.

Eclair~ said:
The people over at Google HQ obviously need to consult with the MIUI graphic designers (consult with someone, please..). No, I don't want Android looking like an iPhone, but the other various changes they made simply just kill the default Vanilla design. Especially the music application. Honestly stock Android looks pathetic at this point compared to other User Interfaces.. very disappointing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm a dual iPhone/Android user, and while iOS is still ahead in terms of looks (stock vs stock), stock Android wasn't bad. I actually kind of like it to be honest, just needs a little bit more work. This though is a step back.
Sent from my CM6.1 powered HTC EVO 4G using Tapatalk

http://mashable.com/2010/12/02/android-gingerbread-demo-video/

Just about the most unimpressive home UI tweaks Ive ever seen.
They just made a few things green.
Maybe theres more but Im certainly not expecting it.
Someone needs to explain how some random guy makes Launcher Pro and thus Android home UI inifintely more usable and uniform. Yet google cant even get the dock portion right.
Googles reputation of making things not pretty continues. Im expecting 2.3 to be a very very big letdown.

Google on hardware acceleration in ICS

Nice explanation from google regarding hardware acceleration, a must read one
http://blog.gsmarena.com/googles-dianne-hackborn-talks-about-hardware-acceleration-in-android-says-it-had-it-in-it-all-along/
Original post
https://plus.google.com/105051985738280261832/posts/2FXDCz8x93s

Very interesting indeed.
What do you guys notice with enabled hw acceleration (build.prop tweak and set in most custom ROMs)? Do you think it is always smoother? Do you even feel a difference?

great find.. ICS is starting to infect my urge to upgrade
but it says that hw acceleration wont be available for nexus s and below..
so on default hw accel. is only enabled on dual-core phones?

Gorjess said:
great find.. ICS is starting to infect my urge to upgrade
but it says that hw acceleration wont be available for nexus s and below..
so on default hw accel. is only enabled on dual-core phones?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It seems to be like that, also the GPU should be strong enough to handle it,else only cpu rendering

The article is enlightening, but comes across as an excuse for laggy interfaces on Android when one considers IOS manages much smoother transitions with apparently lower spec hardware.

Frostfree said:
The article is enlightening, but comes across as an excuse for laggy interfaces on Android when one considers IOS manages much smoother transitions with apparently lower spec hardware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well.. that is so true. And probably one of the reasons iOS still rulz
A quick visual overview between and android device vs and iDevice.. would have the android device cry
This is one of the reasons I am really eager to have ICS on my sgs2!
I want to see some smoothness

I saw on Beyond3D linked Andrew Munn's thoughts to Dianne Hackborn's post
https://plus.google.com/100838276097451809262/posts/VDkV9XaJRGS
Its a bit of a downer and still a long ways to go.

At last. All this hw acceleration 'hacks', enablers, tweaks, bull****...
it really got on my nerve.

Can't say i've ever had a problem with smoothness on SGS2 with touchwiz. Seems it must be hardware accelerated. That's why the phone can do any live wallpaper I throw at it and won't slow down, lag or skip. Stock.
Throw on a home screen replacement like Launcher Pro, ADW or Go Launcher and live wallpapers are useless mind.
I-phones are nice and smooth, but that's because the whole screen is filled with lovely la la baby icons, you can't see the wallpaper, it has nothing running in the background, no widgets, the operating system stays the same with every iteration bar some crap additions like notification centres and Siri, and has no live wallpaper.
I know which phone I would choose.

biffsmash said:
Can't say i've ever had a problem with smoothness on SGS2 with touchwiz. Seems it must be hardware accelerated. That's why the phone can do any live wallpaper I throw at it and won't slow down, lag or skip. Stock.
Throw on a home screen replacement like Launcher Pro, ADW or Go Launcher and live wallpapers are useless mind.
I-phones are nice and smooth, but that's because the whole screen is filled with lovely la la baby icons, you can't see the wallpaper, it has nothing running in the background, no widgets, the operating system stays the same with every iteration bar some crap additions like notification centres and Siri, and has no live wallpaper.
I know which phone I would choose.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And that's my friend why I now love samsung and my GS2 so much
It is the only android that makes android really proud

i would love to know you are getting TW to run smooth without lagging, because mine lags like hell on fresh stock rom. especially when the wallpaper scrolls with the homescreen. TW just never worked for me.

I'm running cyanogen and never seen any lag, even with very heavy customization.
Sent from my GT-I9100

As said, twlauncher is really butter smooth even with a live wallpaper, the only problem with twlaucher is resizing and multi dpi. Twlauncher wont use fullscreen when using 200 or 180 dpi.

djunited said:
i would love to know you are getting TW to run smooth without lagging, because mine lags like hell on fresh stock rom. especially when the wallpaper scrolls with the homescreen. TW just never worked for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then you must have a faulty phone? Touchwiz has been buttery smooth on every single TW rom I have tried.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium

Android can never be as smooth as iphone?
Android will be laggy even with HW acceleration, the reason is
http://www.tipb.com/2011/12/06/android-ui-smooth-ios/
http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/n1e89/follow_up_to_android_graphics_true_facts_or_the/
But i am very much happy with my SGS2.

hariprs said:
Android will be laggy even with HW acceleration, the reason is
http://www.tipb.com/2011/12/06/android-ui-smooth-ios/
http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/n1e89/follow_up_to_android_graphics_true_facts_or_the/
But i am very much happy with my SGS2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
""UI rendering occurs on the main thread of an app
UI rendering has normal priority"""
As long as the task is running in cpu we can talk about threading and setting thread priority, but once the task switches to GPU(as in ICS) there will be no need for thread priority and where the rendering of UI takes place.
So if any apps makes use of hw feature in ICS, they should be smooth enough to run at 60fps for rendering.

King Shady said:
Then you must have a faulty phone? Touchwiz has been buttery smooth on every single TW rom I have tried.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure about that.other launchers are very smooth.phone runs everything fine.what fault coupd there be thats making tw not as smooth as most describe it to be.

Agree with the posts that say TWLauncher is the smoothest on the SGS2, I've tried most of them. Live wallpapers have little effect on that smoothness, and that can't be said for other launchers.
Overall, the SGS2 is as smooth as the iPhone 4 I had.
However, I did play with a WP7 Lumia 800 the other day, and it is definitely the smoothest UI I ever used.
The ip4s is pretty smooth too... but I'd trade a tiny bit of smoothness for the sheer possibilities with Android.... but I have to say I was really quite impressed with WP7.

Was using my mobile clocked down to 500 mhz.. as a downside my go launcher started to lag like anything, switched to stock TW, to my total disbelief, the stock launcher is insanely smooth even when downclocked to 500 mhz. Stock launcher is purely hardware accelerated for sure.

I use hyperdroid which uses a build.prop tweak to enable hardware acceleration. Now even if i place go launcher's apk in system/app folder, still i cant see it running as smoothly as touchwiz. So is that tweak really working with other launchers. I deleted original touchwiz and rebooted but still go launcher lags a lot as comapared to tw. Anyone knows what exactly that tweak does?
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium

ICS - am I missing something?

I've patiently been waiting and flashing the alpha/beta ICS ROMs onto my phone as and when they come (thanks devs!).
What I am wondering is, why am I distinctly unimpressed with ICS?
Sure it looks pretty, but when you get down to the nuts and bolts of it, it seems to be form over function. The launcher now takes several swipes to access an app which I could previously have got to in one flick. The task switcher which used to be just long-press on home button then bam, touch your desired app, is now a case of long-press then swiping through a long list of pretty windows to find the one you need. Don't get me wrong, the changes to the built-in apps are good (and necessary - having to press menu to get to the draft new email button was ridiculously bad UI) - but I'm just left unimpressed overall.
And still we have the poor choppy scrolling performance that iOS and WP users laugh at instead of the ultra-smooth buttery goodness they enjoy (although it is better than it used to be I admit).
I know the ICS ROMs are a work in progress still, and I've not spent any time using a Galaxy Nexus - perhaps it all makes sense on a superphone with dual-cores and a massive screen, and these are non-issues for those people. But I am in no position to get a new phone (need a hardware keyboard and there aren't any better ones around) and hence I don't see much compelling reason to get ICS over GB - except for the apps maybe.
Am I the only person feeling this way?

Take into consideration these are ALPHA and BETA stages..cameras still don't even work. Just be patient
Sent from my HTC Vision using xda premium

Hm, I'd have to agree with you about the Task Switcher. There is little to no functionality to it. May I add widget grouping in the Drawer would also be a great addition. Otherwise, I liked most of the changes.
Although, I have two questions. What ICS ROM did/are you test(ing)? And did you try Overclocking? I'm currently running Virtuous Quattro (Beta 8) and have an overclock of up to 1,6GHz, and I can tell everything is running smooth as silk. Of course you don't have to OC to upto 1,6, but 1,2-1,3 would definitely suffice.
Edit: As spastic909 said, there will be a LOT of changes in the upcoming updates, this is only a preview of what we're soon going to get.

As a test I just overclocked to 1.8GHz on performance governor, and rebooted to ensure minimal running processes. This is on a fresh install of Andromadus Alpha v8, no apps installed except GAPPS - scrolling is still really choppy when going through lists, such as my GMail inbox and my contacts list. This is just a fact of life on Android, it doesn't matter what ROM you have, and I've been through a lot in the 14mths that I've had this phone
If iOS and WP can scroll smoothly EVERYWHERE on hardware much older/worse than my phone then there is something seriously wrong with Android at a deep functional level. I think Google needs to sort that out now they've "prettyfied" Android. Lipstick on a pig springs to mind. I love Android, and as it stands I would never consider iOS or WP. But I am jealous of the performance they get.

setspeed said:
As a test I just overclocked to 1.8GHz on performance governor, and rebooted to ensure minimal running processes. This is on a fresh install of Andromadus Alpha v8, no apps installed except GAPPS - scrolling is still really choppy when going through lists, such as my GMail inbox and my contacts list. This is just a fact of life on Android, it doesn't matter what ROM you have, and I've been through a lot in the 14mths that I've had this phone
If iOS and WP can scroll smoothly EVERYWHERE on hardware much older/worse than my phone then there is something seriously wrong with Android at a deep functional level. I think Google needs to sort that out now they've "prettyfied" Android. Lipstick on a pig springs to mind. I love Android, and as it stands I would never consider iOS or WP. But I am jealous of the performance they get.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So the addition of hardware acceleration for moving UI elements doesn't function in CPU realtime like the iPhone or Windows Phones? I'm still running Virtuous G-Lite here, haven't flashed any ICS roms yet as they are all in beta.

setspeed said:
Am I the only person feeling this way?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I feel exactly the same way especially in regards to the app list and recently used apps. I think those are steps backward which is keeping me on GB. However ICS does have some improvements in other areas of the OS which I wish I could enjoy.
Sent from my HTC Vision using Tapatalk

setspeed said:
As a test I just overclocked to 1.8GHz on performance governor, and rebooted to ensure minimal running processes. This is on a fresh install of Andromadus Alpha v8, no apps installed except GAPPS - scrolling is still really choppy when going through lists, such as my GMail inbox and my contacts list. This is just a fact of life on Android, it doesn't matter what ROM you have, and I've been through a lot in the 14mths that I've had this phone
If iOS and WP can scroll smoothly EVERYWHERE on hardware much older/worse than my phone then there is something seriously wrong with Android at a deep functional level. I think Google needs to sort that out now they've "prettyfied" Android. Lipstick on a pig springs to mind. I love Android, and as it stands I would never consider iOS or WP. But I am jealous of the performance they get.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fast real-time UI scrolling has very little to do with actual performance. From what I loosely understand, Android is fundamentally more ambitious. Rather than being flawed compared to her competitors. iOS and WP7(Not 100% sure about this.) has the UI on some kind of urgent priority line to render scrolling at 60fps. Android on the other hand, won't forsake any other tasks for the UI scrolling. In essence, Android is closer to a true computer.
That said, I'm guessing the only way to stamp out Android's inherent lagginess is to brute force it with increasingly advanced hardware. Or in my case, using MIUI bulletproof w/ that Charger V6 script thingie gives it a comparable homescreen scrolling speed to the iPhone 3GS.

setspeed said:
As a test I just overclocked to 1.8GHz on performance governor, and rebooted to ensure minimal running processes. This is on a fresh install of Andromadus Alpha v8, no apps installed except GAPPS - scrolling is still really choppy when going through lists, such as my GMail inbox and my contacts list. This is just a fact of life on Android, it doesn't matter what ROM you have, and I've been through a lot in the 14mths that I've had this phone
If iOS and WP can scroll smoothly EVERYWHERE on hardware much older/worse than my phone then there is something seriously wrong with Android at a deep functional level. I think Google needs to sort that out now they've "prettyfied" Android. Lipstick on a pig springs to mind. I love Android, and as it stands I would never consider iOS or WP. But I am jealous of the performance they get.
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There was a very good explanation to why you would be seeing this that I unfortunately don't remember where I found it, but it was a google employee explaining why android will never LOOK as smooth as iOs (despite both being almost the same) what it is, is that with iOS it prioritizes interaction above everything else, including rendering, in that, if you were to load a page on safari or whatever and while its loading start moving the page around, all rendering will stop, whereas with android it will try to do both simultaneous thereby resulting in what appears to be a choppier experience. As for google fixing this, they cannot (or rather will not) because it would literally require an overhaul of everything that is android to fix, yes it's do-able, but it would result in everything that we know to be android restarting practically from scratch (with some trial and error already done for us IE we know what works so we can implement it from the beginning) Hope this answers your concerns!

noneabove said:
iOS it prioritizes interaction above everything else, including rendering, in that, if you were to load a page on safari or whatever and while its loading start moving the page around, all rendering will stop, whereas with android it will try to do both simultaneous thereby resulting in what appears to be a choppier experience.
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Hmm.. I'd read about it somewhere. And I'd also read elsewhere that the google devs wanted to find a decent middle ground to reduce this "choppiness" as well.

This the article others are referring to - https://plus.google.com/105051985738280261832/posts/2FXDCz8x93s
Also, another one from the same source (a senior Google/Android engineer) - https://plus.google.com/105051985738280261832/posts/XAZ4CeVP6DC
Sent from my Desire Z running CM7.

Yeah I was already aware of those posts by Dianne Hackborn and others. It also seems that NO-ONE including Hackborn herself can give a definitive answer (which doesn't then get refuted by someone) as to why iOS can achieve 60fps animation pretty much everywhere, and Android just fails spectacularly at it.
The technical issues are way above my head, and I have no real interest in changing that - I'm just a normal end-user (albeit one who likes to meddle, hence why I have an XDA account). What I would like to hear is that Google has a plan for fixing Android, whether that be through a rewrite or whatever, to nail this final issue of stuttery, laggy performance compared to the competition.
I think the original point of my post was that ICS doesn't seem to offer me much in the way of actual advantages over GB (except for apps). The launcher appears smoother (at the cost of now having to make mutliple swipes - a choice made to get around the abysmal list-scrolling performance). The task manager is prettier but less functional. It just seems like it's been tarted up, with none of the actual underlying issues fixed. That's how it is from my perspective.
I wish there was a viable alternative, as I am truly starting to get itchy feet. I know that I won't go anywhere at the moment, but one phone that really interested me was the Nokia N9. I never got the chance to actually use it, but all the reviews said that the Meego interface was a joy (despite a couple of minor performance issues and the fact Nokia killed it before it was born).
I think I'm starting to question whether in fact I need the advantages that Android offers at all. On a daily basis there is only one root app that I use and that is Adfree Android. Could I live without it - probably.
And although I love flashing new ROMs on my phone, and the choice that brings, ultimately I'm only trying to fix deficiencies with the software my phone came with. This DZ was dead slow when I first got it - overclocking and a new ROM fixed that. But when the competition is fast and smooth, would I feel the need for any of that? I suspect the answer is probably "Yes, I would miss it like anything". But the fact I'm asking myself these questions tells me I'm not perfectly happy with Android the way it is. iPhone users don't have that feeling. I know they expect less of a computer and more of an appliance, but when they have an amazing experience day after day, and I'm being frustrated day after day, I ask myself who really is the smarter one?

setspeed said:
I'm being frustrated day after day, I ask myself who really is the smarter one?
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No one is smarter than anyone for choosing one particular brand over another. Its just a preference in the end.
While it's short sighted of you to equate UI scrolling to actual performance, you're quite entitled to love smooth scrolling.
And if 60 fps scrolling is your thing and if the lag bothers you that much. Then it would be wise to move to the iPhone or Windows. Especially if you believe it to be the smarter choice.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App

Smarter as in "not spending a lot of time babying my phone". Is it possible to make the transition from phone tweaker to just phone user, and enjoy those benefits (scrolling performance, better quality of apps) instead of enjoying total control and customisation?? Who knows, but when my contract's up and if there isn't a decent qwerty Android on the market (highly likely) then maybe I should try a change!

The scrolling lag of Android is a software design "flaw" if you can call it that. Someone wrote a nice article on G+ about it. Essentially, Android spawns a thread for the UI and lets it do its thing. That's why when you scroll down, not only does the existing content move, but new content is also added on the fly. And this happens across the OS - when you are updating an app, the phone also is trying to address your latest command of swiping homescreens. The author went on to show how in iOS this is not the case, that when a webpage is loading and the user begins to scroll, the page stops loading and full processor power is dedicated to the scrolling, thus resulting in a smoother performance. Apparently, it is baked too deep into the kernel and changing that is not a trivial issue. thus, the only solution now is to throw more HP at it, which is why the latest crop of phones don't stutter too much.

I think I'm a victim of my own anticipation. Like most people here I check Android news on a daily basis. When a major version revision like 4.0 is announced I buy into all the hype and by the time it gets to release I'm ready for the second coming of Jesus. When that doesn't happen then I've set myself up for a major fall. ICS brings some welcome (and some not so welcome) changes, but there's nothing earth shattering here, it feels like an incremental improvement.
I'm setting myself up for some major flaming here, but I would like Google to pull out the big guns and wow us with something. Something like Siri.
Before you all lambast me, let me state my position - I don't think Siri will set the world on fire like Apple hopes it will, we're just not ready for it yet. And I know all us jaded tech types can sneer and say "I could do all this ages ago with Tasker and Voice Search and Vlingo etc etc". But what Apple has done is wrap it all up into a nice useable package that anyone can easily access, without having to think about it, or search the Market for apps. There is nothing wrong in spotting something that you think is great and adding it to your OS. And if you try and deny that this will how we will interact with our phones in 20yrs time (or perhaps via mind control!) then you are kidding yourself.
I know Apple bought it from an iOS dev, but equally they've polished it into something that is talked about by everyone - everyone has an opinion on it when they become aware of it. What does Android do (for the average user, who doesn't root/flash custom ROMs) that's anywhere near the same level of impressive? Widgets and nice Maps? I admit voice nav is a great selling point, but seriously, I think Google needs to step up it's game and start bringing out the big guns to compete with iOS which, although limiting in lots of ways, clearly has the most polished apps, the best user interaction in the mobile world when it comes to scrolling and smoothness, and they bring futuristic stuff like Siri to the party as a part of their standard OS. It's not about bragging rights, or showing off or anything like that - it's about being the best OS around, and at the moment, aside from the fact Android is very customisable even without root, I can't say it's 100% the best OS. It is for me, at the moment, and probably for you too if you're on this site, but for the rest of the general population I can see why Android doesn't really hold a candle to iOS in the layman's eyes.
Rant over!

The one major thing you're missing is that ICS was designed mainly to integrate functionality between both tablets and phones. Google made a decision and then decided they weren't to keep on developing Honeycomb nor likely wanted current tablets running cropped versions of GB when it was solely made as a phone OS.
So there was a notion to make a unification with devices running Gingerbread/Froyo along with tablets running GB/HC, thus ICS was formed.

ashwinmudigonda said:
The scrolling lag of Android is a software design "flaw" if you can call it that. Someone wrote a nice article on G+ about it. Essentially, Android spawns a thread for the UI and lets it do its thing.
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If you're referring to the post from a guy who used to be an intern at Google, then that second article link I posted (from Dianne Hackborn) is basically pointing out how that guy posted some incorrect stuff.
Sent from my Desire Z running CM7.

steviewevie said:
If you're referring to the post from a guy who used to be an intern at Google, then that second article link I posted (from Dianne Hackborn) is basically pointing out how that guy posted some incorrect stuff.
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Doesn't matter if the guy posted incorrect stuff.
The empirical evidence and summary is that Android does not prioritize UI and UI animations (nor sound threads), and never will this point forward, so far.
Dianne also pointed out a deficiency in the kernel for high-priority/foreground threads which they gave up on fixing since Android 1.6.

I notice this every day but I'm a tech if it ain't broken i don't want it...

I'm just throwing my thoughts around here, please correct me if I'm wrong and flame me if you must, I'm kind of just interested in this topic.
I've had an ipod touch. I've played with the iphone 3gs. I've seen the iphone 4g. I've even been offered to try siri for a few weeks. The 3gs actually wasn't a huge leap from an ipod touch. They pretty much slapped a phone on it, right? There was nothing I could do on a 3gs that I couldn't do on an itouch connected to wifi. Literally nothing. The change from 3gs to 4g was just that. 3g changed to 4g. Beyond that, the user experience was identical. Nothing had changed. The addition of siri added 100 bucks of value to the 4g though? Yeah, that kinda didn't make sense to me, as there are literally free apps that did the same thing. But behind siri was the same phone. Ios hasn't changed drastically since the first time we saw it. Granted it's ALREADY such a great phone.
But look at android. Younger, and from the g1 to the nexus s, HUGE improvements, and for pennies to the dollar cheaper. Android WILL improve. There's no question of that. At this point, my phone has literally replaced my desktop; and from a phone that has already reached EOL, that's quite an accomplishment. the next gen phones have way more muscle to swing out at the graphical glitches that plague us, and the OS just keeps improving.
ICS is merely a stepping stone into something bigger. And android, being as customizable as it is, offers ui similar to ios through miui (soon miuiv4). You can't put off the changes made between cupcake, eclair, froyo and gingerbread. How you can put off the changes yet to be made, however, is quite staggering.