Database Users

Will HD2 get Official Window Mobile 7 update

In my opinion, the HD2 will be outdated very soon (Software part) unless HTC announces an official Windows Mobile 7 upgrade. What do you think?

Worrying about official upgrades is a waste of time if you're a member of XDA-Devs...

I will buy this phone when it's released, but sure hope the phone get's a update for windows mobile 7

Pantaloonie said:
Worrying about official upgrades is a waste of time if you're a member of XDA-Devs...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
fully agreed, kinda waste of time to poll something that no one can find the answer.

Pantaloonie said:
Worrying about official upgrades is a waste of time if you're a member of XDA-Devs...
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Click to collapse
That's BS... if you want a bug free phone. ROMS are great for extra functionality, but lets face it, they can be the cause of many headaches especially if you have an extremely busy schedule.
As to the original question. I would be shocked if the HD2 got a WM7 upgrade. Just as HTC didn't upgrade the HD to WM6.5, I doubt they'll be updating the HD2.
I don't think any phone will get Win7 upgradability, just b/c if 7 turns out to be as great as we hope it to be, manufacturers will want to milk every last dime out of us to get us to upgrade. (6.5, 6.1, and even 6.0 were different, as they changed very little besides a minimal amount of skinning between builds)

precsmo said:
fully agreed, kinda waste of time to poll something that no one can find the answer.
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You didn't get it bro,
If you are a member of XDA you will get the upgrade

salamt said:
You didn't get it bro,
If you are a member of XDA you will get the upgrade
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Click to collapse
Shure Thing

I dont think HD2 get WM7 upgrade, when 7 is coming HTC have new phones for that and HTC has a history to forget all they old customers/devices.

also worth remembering that WM7 might be a step backwards!!
consider the change from windows 98 to millenium...a disaster!!..or XP to Vista..just as much a disaster..
don't go thinking that WM7 will be the best thing you've ever seen...it might be, but it might not.

WM7 will not be out for another 10-12 months, maybe longer. Microsoft officially announced WM 6.5 just last week. It think by the time we get the first phone with WM7, HD2's hardware will be obsolete. We will probably be looking at something with at least 2 GHz and 1 GB RAM by then.

twisted-pixel said:
also worth remembering that WM7 might be a step backwards!!
consider the change from windows 98 to millenium...a disaster!!..or XP to Vista..just as much a disaster..
don't go thinking that WM7 will be the best thing you've ever seen...it might be, but it might not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Doubtful: PC based Win 7 is getting good, not glowing, reviews. The major consensus is the improved speed via lightened kernel. WinMo 7 will be a step in the right direction to ward off further losses to android and greater customer satisfaction.

I'm not saying it's going to be awful, but it just seems that a lot of poeple are syaing 'we must have WM7...we need it desperately..'....where as I think they should just wait and see. They are in danger of making the jump, finding it isn't that great and then blaming MS for giving a crap product

twisted-pixel said:
I'm not saying it's going to be awful, but it just seems that a lot of poeple are syaing 'we must have WM7...we need it desperately..'....where as I think they should just wait and see. They are in danger of making the jump, finding it isn't that great and then blaming MS for giving a crap product
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well if wm 7 turns out to be worse than wm 6.5 then whom should we blame but microsoft? It's their product and they've been hyping it for years.

again, I'm not against that point, what I'm saying is why is there so much "we MUST have WM7" and "I only want this phone if I get WM7"??
here's an idea..why not buy a crap nokia, and wait for a year then get a new phone if WM7 is what you're waiting for?

I like WinMo OS and I am not planning to use any other OS anytime soon but it is annoying that I need to upgrade my less than a year HD to the HD2 to get more software features which is in this case WinMo 6.5
magic question is
why apple and android owners have a periodic updates adding new features while we have to buy a new phone to get these updates?

salamt said:
In my opinion, the HD2 will be outdated very soon (Software part) unless HTC announces an official Windows Mobile 7 upgrade. What do you think?
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Click to collapse
not unless we here at xda are not capable of putting android or maemo on it
qsd8250 will not be hard enough for an android port.
cheers.

Well, I don't care for Android, so whatever happens with that OS is highly irrelevant. I'm sure I'm not alone.

salamt said:
I like WinMo OS and I am not planning to use any other OS anytime soon but it is annoying that I need to upgrade my less than a year HD to the HD2 to get more software features which is in this case WinMo 6.5
magic question is
why apple and android owners have a periodic updates adding new features while we have to buy a new phone to get these updates?
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Click to collapse
Because HTC prefer to sell a new phone than offering an OS update to exisiting phone for more profit.

An OS upgrade would cost money to HTC - licensing fees, development costs etc. Since they seem to have a useful lifetime of their flagship model of about 1 year and try to release new ones during the pre-Christmas shopping season, it would be fairly stupid of them to cannibalize sales of their new models by spending money on upgrading older ones.
The mid-model year phones get their upgrades quite often though. So I'd venture to guess that if WM7 gets released early next year and it's not too far away from WM6.5 in terms of porting applications etc. getting an official upgrade would not be impossible... If WM7 is more than half a year away I'd say forget about it.

What advantages would Windows Mobile 7 have over 6.5? I thought the new Manila 2.5 basically reskinned the entire OS. The only thing unique I've seen so far is they announced Zune integration with WM7. That feature should be pretty cool.

Don't hold your breath for a WM 7 upgrade

Bad news guys.
Windows Mobile is delayed until late 2010.
That means that the only upgrade HD2 will see, will be when our wonderful cookers here on XDA gets their hands on a beta release
Read it and weep
http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2009/12/11/windows-mobile-7-delayed-until-the-end-of-2010/

rd2000 said:
Bad news guys.
Windows Mobile is delayed until late 2010.
That means that the only upgrade HD2 will see, will be when our wonderful cookers here on XDA gets their hands on a beta release
Read it and weep
http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2009/12/11/windows-mobile-7-delayed-until-the-end-of-2010/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i thought it was supposed to be release mid-late 2010, so what's new about this?

Expect to see an Android port before then, which could sound the dell knell for WinMo.

mid-late 2010 was my assumption as well...

With all this talk of WinMo being on its last legs, (Here , here and there )Microsoft are probably catching on and stepping things up a bit. I think this WM7 release will finally be something major we can look forward to . Even if it takes a few extra months to get it right I think most of us and many of the WinMo "nuubs" will be quite happy.
I suspect if it isn't a good OS this time round, it may be the last WinMo we'll see, which would be a pity for us modders. After all, as bad as people's opinion of WM5&6 have been over the years one thing is quite unique over many other OSs - the intense lack of attention and interference modders get from MS . After all doing some of the things we do here at XDA-Dev (ROMs, radios etc), would be frowned upon, banned and litigated against by say Google or Apple and most certainly Symbian.

Sorry mate, these are OLD bad news.

jagnet said:
With all this talk of WinMo being on its last legs, (Here , here and there )Microsoft are probably catching on and stepping things up a bit. I think this WM7 release will finally be something major we can look forward to . Even if it takes a few extra months to get it right I think most of us and many of the WinMo "nuubs" will be quite happy.
I suspect if it isn't a good OS this time round, it may be the last WinMo we'll see, which would be a pity for us modders. After all, as bad as people's opinion of WM5&6 have been over the years one thing is quite unique over many other OSs - the intense lack of attention and interference modders get from MS . After all doing some of the things we do here at XDA-Dev (ROMs, radios etc), would be frowned upon, banned and litigated against by say Google or Apple and most certainly Symbian.
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I Agree.

jagnet said:
With all this talk of WinMo being on its last legs, (Here , here and there )Microsoft are probably catching on and stepping things up a bit. I think this WM7 release will finally be something major we can look forward to . Even if it takes a few extra months to get it right I think most of us and many of the WinMo "nuubs" will be quite happy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know about you, but I tend to disagree that WM7 will be something major. To compare: remember they said Windows7 will be something major that will beat Mac OSX. Reality is, it's the same as a trimmed down Vista for better perfromance.

"This is the way WinMo ends; Not with a flop but with vaporware."

Ugh there's nothing new here. WM7 was always scheduled to come out in Fall 2010 (one year after 6.5)

the-uki said:
I don't know about you, but I tend to disagree that WM7 will be something major. To compare: remember they said Windows7 will be something major that will beat Mac OSX. Reality is, it's the same as a trimmed down Vista for better perfromance.
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Click to collapse
Windows 7 is "beating" OSX though. Sales are through the roof, customer satisfaction is through the roof, the media are generally happy about it and Snow Leopard is being referred to as Apple's Vista. If 7 is just a trimmed down Vista then where does that leave Snow Leopard?
Back on topic, I don't think this is really news. Up until now Microsoft have maintained that WM7 will RTM around the middle of next year and be available on phones towards the end of the year. This guy (whoever he is) doesn't seem to contradict that timetable.
I'd be very surprised if Microsoft let WM7 slip any further given the attention it's getting in and outside the company.

Posting 30.000 Years old WM 6.5 Screenshots of Concepts never released, but talking like knowing the newest :-D

The majority of people have this phone on a minimum of an 18 month contract, I myself can upgrade after 15 months due to being an O2 Gold customer. So even if it's later 2010 my HD2 will have WM7 on it before I get another phone.
Besides, I don't actually have too many issues with WM6.5, especially as Sense takes most of the issues away. I can wait.

Pagnell said:
The majority of people have this phone on a minimum of an 18 month contract, I myself can upgrade after 15 months due to being an O2 Gold customer. So even if it's later 2010 my HD2 will have WM7 on it before I get another phone.
Besides, I don't actually have too many issues with WM6.5, especially as Sense takes most of the issues away. I can wait.
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Click to collapse
That's true, though I must be one of the few who don't have a contract, I was given the phone . But even outside the number of people holding on with contracts, I can still foresee the Leo being around for some time yet. It's going to be quite difficult for any company, even HTC, to beat the specs and design of it. Even for someone like me, who changes phone every 3-6 months (I admit it, I'm a gadget addict) I'll not be switching from the HTC Leo any time soon... and if WM7 is as good as they say I may have it a few years yet

jakem said:
Windows 7 is "beating" OSX though. Sales are through the roof, customer satisfaction is through the roof, the media are generally happy about it and Snow Leopard is being referred to as Apple's Vista. If 7 is just a trimmed down Vista then where does that leave Snow Leopard?
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I agree with you, I remember about 2 months ago, I gave my ears to those encouraging OsX too much, so I spent many valuable hours till I succeded to install it on my Intel motherboard. Really, I wasted my time and effort, reverted rapidly to Win7, and I am so happy with it. There is avery big gap between Win7 and Vista, that was a very dark era of MS life between 2 lighted eras XP and Win7. May be Mac OsX users are happy with it, but it is not for us.

I am not holding my breath for WM7, because WM6.5 is already a very good OS and together with the best hardware, the HD2, it makes one of, if not THE best phone.
However, just like any other OS, WM6.5 has its flaws (though IMO less serious flaws than others, like iPhone OS or Symbian), and I am always looking for improvements. I hope we'll get our hands on a WM7 ROM soon.
I have switched to OS X about one and a half years ago, but since the first leaked alpha (!!) release of Windows 7, I have never touched OS X again. Windows 7 is the best desktop OS ever and beats OS X hands down.

Windows Mobile 7 for HD2, it will happen

Hi,
I have recently received an enquiry about a post I made saying that I contacted HTC about a month ago asking if WinMo 7 will be made available for the HD2, and if it will be a free download. I have found their response so have decided to post it on here:-
"Dear Toby
Thank you for your enquiry about HD2
What we do it ROM Upgrades from our website, however 6.5 windows mobile has only been out 2 months and windows mobile 7 hasn't even been developed. This wont be out until next november at the earliest. But when it is available it will be a free download.
If these steps have not helped, please let me know by responding using the link provided and I will be happy to check again for you.
Best regards,
Terry Snelling
HTC customer support team
HTC Corp. Global Service Division
http://www.htc.com/europe/CA_Hotline.aspx"

When asked to comment on the sayings of a HTC developer who said that WM7 will be available for the HD2 on Twitter, HTC responded "No, disregard that". Should have said "when and if" instead of "when".
So yeah. We're not exactly too sure about what the branches are up to.
It's not like this matters anyway, you'll probably have your share of WM7 roms here in xda.

Yunabeco said:
It's not like this matters anyway, you'll probably have your share of WM7 roms here in xda.
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I wouldn't bet on that. Developing a ROM based on an entirely new CE kernel is a totally different proposition to going to a different version of WM6.x - where are the hardware drivers going to come from?

I doubt it will be a new rom for us. First, its seems its being pushed to q1 2011, second, new phones with dual core processors will come out and it will hurt sales if they offer an upgrade to 7. They need to sell the new phones.
Its just business guys, its not like HTC cares so much about the current hd2 owners. They are in the money making business.

To be fair, lorin.bute is on the money here - I'll probably only have this phone a year at most and there'll be bigger & better around by the time WM7 is out.
That said, if they do release wm7 for hd2, it will a nice thing for them to do

I have doubt there will be any official WM7 release for HD2, just as there is no official WM6.5 for HD.

Shasarak said:
I wouldn't bet on that. Developing a ROM based on an entirely new CE kernel is a totally different proposition to going to a different version of WM6.x - where are the hardware drivers going to come from?
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Many devices originally running WM5 have 'unofficial' WM6(.5.x) Roms available.
Drivers can be created or taken from devices using the same hardware.
Also, I wouldn't be surprised if WM7 turns out to be able to use 6.x hardware drivers.
If the HD2 continues to be a well sold device, and -not unimportant- the first device that meets the WM7 HW Specs, it could be a logical choice for HTC to come up with an upgrade.
And offcourse it also depends on when WM7 will be available. If it comes out in April, the HD2 may still be HTC's 'flagship'. If it comes out in november, chances are the HD2 is not that fast, big and high tech anymore..

@tomasz
Going from WM6 to WM7 is something completely different than going from WM5 to WM6. WM5 and WM6 share the same kernel (kinda), so it's easy to update, as all the drivers still work. Drivers made for WM6 will not work on WM7.
But HD2 is testing WM7 on the HD2 and it only takes someone to leak a ROM and we'll have all the necessary software to port WM7 to the HD2. So even if HTC doesn't release an official update, I'm pretty sure that we'll get it.
But we definitely can't develop the necessary software ourselves and it's not like the updates from WM5 to WM6, that's where Shasarak is right. All we can do now is wait and see what happens.

tomasz said:
Many devices originally running WM5 have 'unofficial' WM6(.5.x) Roms available.
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Click to collapse
Yes, but Windows Mobile 5.0, 6.0, 6.1 and 6.5 are all based on Windows CE version 5-point-something. (You forget how little development has been going on with Windows Mobile for the past several years - very little has actually changed between 5.0 and 6.5). Going to WM7 we go to a Windows CE version 6 kernel, which is completely different.
tomasz said:
Drivers can be created or taken from devices using the same hardware.
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Click to collapse
What devices are there which have identical hardware to the HD2 and are running WM7? I take the point that there probably will be devices out there with similar hardware running WM7 at some point; but look at the issues people are currently having porting graphics drivers from the Toshiba TG01 to the HD2 (and they really do have virtually identical hardware) - it mostly works, but it's not perfect. And every device onboard needs a driver - not just the main chipset, but things like the camera too. What are the chances a WM7 phone will have an identical camera to the HD2? And where are we going to get a WM7-compatible radio ROM from?
tomasz said:
Also, I wouldn't be surprised if WM7 turns out to be able to use 6.x hardware drivers.
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Click to collapse
It's already been announced that it won't.
tomasz said:
If the HD2 continues to be a well sold device, and -not unimportant- the first device that meets the WM7 HW Specs, it could be a logical choice for HTC to come up with an upgrade.
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Click to collapse
It would be a totally illogical choice for an upgrade, because WM7 isn't due out until Q4 this year - likely late Q4 according to some rumours. That means the HD2's successor will probably launch as HTC's first (flagship) WM7 phone. At that point, if HTC issues a WM7 upgrade for the HD2 they will be seriously cannibalising HD3 sales; from HTC's perspective, they want anyone who wishes to upgrade to WM7 to buy a new phone to do it. There was no official WM6.5 upgrade for the Touch HD for the same reason.
freyberry said:
But HD2 is testing WM7 on the HD2 and it only takes someone to leak a ROM and we'll have all the necessary software to port WM7 to the HD2. So even if HTC doesn't release an official update, I'm pretty sure that we'll get it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If HTC are testing WM7 on actual HD2 hardware, then there may indeed be a helpful leak at some point. Do you have a source for that claim, or are you just being optimistic?

by 2011, i think i can upgrade my phone again since it reaching the end of my contract....

Shasarak said:
It would be a totally illogical choice for an upgrade, because WM7 isn't due out until Q4 this year - likely late Q4 according to some rumours. That means the HD2's successor will probably launch as HTC's first (flagship) WM7 phone. At that point, if HTC issues a WM7 upgrade for the HD2 they will be seriously cannibalising HD3 sales; from HTC's perspective, they want anyone who wishes to upgrade to WM7 to buy a new phone to do it. There was no official WM6.5 upgrade for the Touch HD for the same reason.
If HTC are testing WM7 on actual HD2 hardware, then there may indeed be a helpful leak at some point. Do you have a source for that claim, or are you just being optimistic?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK, some additions to your points.
I really don't think that a WM7 upgrade would hurt HD3 sales. Would Apple still sell the iPhone 3G if it did hurt 3GS sales? Probably not. If someone wants an HD3, he'll buy an HD3. If someone doesn't want to spend that much, he'll buy a cheaper device, which could then be the HD2 (because it saves HTC some costs of developing new mid-range phones if they continue to sell the last gen devices, just like Apple does). The reason for not providing a WM6.5 upgrade to the Touch HD is that they have to draw a line somewhere. Testing and adjusting new WM versions causes additional costs and they have to decide if it pays (because they give out the upgrade for free, so the "only" thing they get in return is satisfaction of their customers). Yes, I do think that they should have provided WM6.5 for the Touch HD, but apparently they decided that it would not pay. Apple only has to support two last-gen devices, it would be much too expensive for HTC to develop upgrades for all their devices, so they have to choose which ones to support.
About HTC testing WM7 on the HD2: I know that the necessary software exists, but I can't tell you any more than that (and I don't know more than that). Of course I can not guarantee that there will be a leak, I'm just being optimistic about this. Only time will tell if there will be an official upgrade or a leak that we can use, but yes, I am optimistic

snerkler said:
HTC customer support team
HTC Corp. Global Service Division
http://www.htc.com/europe/CA_Hotline.aspx"
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I wouldn't bet a penny on that statement.
All I've read so far about HTC customer support responses (HD2: ROM upgrades, warranty, release datesm..) were vague. One not knowing what the other one said, contradictious statements, etc.
Unless that "confirmation" is not from a "higher positioned" employee, it's not more promising than the russian tweet about the Upgrade.

Maybe I'm a skeptic, but the only thing I believe from that statement is that WM7 is scheduled for release in November. I wouldn't be surpsied if like most CS reps he was a bit confused and didn't realize that MS/HTC is probably going to push out 6.5.3 to the HD.
More than likely 6.5.3 will be released as a free download
WM7 will start appearing in Nov (on new devices though)
And since I've never seen HTC develop 2 OS updates for a device, I don't see it happening now, unless times are changing and that WM7 license is free or something.

Personally I do believe we will get an update from HTC for the HD2 but I dont think it will be when WM7 launches or anytime soon after that. I hope I am wrong but if WM7 is as good as we hope and erases the ghosts of previous WinMo iterations then we will see an influx of new Handsets from most of the manufacturers. Leaving little time for the HD2...until the dust settles that it is...
Just my opinion mind you, I am thoroughly expecting to be wrong on this...

I'd say Windows 7 is being tested on the HD2 right now.
http://pocketnow.com/tech-news/microsoft-implies-windows-mobile-7-headed-to-htc-hd2

freyberry said:
OK, some additions to your points.
I really don't think that a WM7 upgrade would hurt HD3 sales. Would Apple still sell the iPhone 3G if it did hurt 3GS sales? Probably not.
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The critical difference there is that the iPhone 3G is still an active product: Apple is still making and selling them. (Though you'll note that they discontinued the 16GB version of the 3G as soon as the 3GS launched for precisely that reason - so as to avoid hurting 3GS sales by competing with it).
HTC doesn't operate like that. They have well-defined market sectors, and when a new device comes out in any one sector, the old one is retired and production ceases. Consider, for example, the Touch Diamond, Touch Pro and Touch HD - once the TD2, TP2 and HD2 came out, each of those replaced the earlier model, and the earlier version immediately ceased production. They didn't keep the old Touch HD going as a cheap version of the HD2; that role is fulfilled by the TD2.
Very few manufacturers offer any sort of ongoing development for phone models which aren't being made any more, and HTC is no exception: once the HD2 is no longer being made and sold, we won't see any more major updates for it. For so long as it remains in production, we may.
So the question is simply whether WM7 will become available before or after the HD2 ceases production. If it comes out several months before, there's a good chance of a port (because not offering it would hurt HD2 sales in the mean time). If it comes out after the HD2 isn't being sold any more, there is no chance. And all the precedents suggest that they will stop making HD2's as soon as a replacement model comes out, and that the replacement will likely appear about a year after the model it replaces - which is round about the time WM7 is expected to launch.
Even if you ignore HTC's history of model replacement, it's still very unlikely that the HD2 will remain in production after a new flagship model is released. The iPhone 3G and 3GS can coexist because there's such a large gap between the two in hardware terms (in the same way as there is between the HD2 and the TD2). But it's doubtful that the HD3 hardware will actually be that far ahead of the HD2. (Look how long HTC stuck with MSM72XX chipsets before moving to Snapdragon; it'll likely be a while before they move on from Snapdragon to anything faster). The fact that the HD3 has WM7 will quite likely be the primary thing that differentiates it from the HD2; giving existing HD2 owners access to WM7 would eliminate all motivation for upgrading. There's no way HTC will do that.

I paste also here my comment:
Well, HTC can motivate consumers to buy new devices end of 2010 in 2 ways - by not upgrading existing to WM7 and offering it only with the new devices, or by offering new devices with much faster hardware, which will be an incentive on its own. I am not sure which option HTC will choose though ... having in mind how the competition will upgrade the hardware soon (Apple, Motorola) I think HTC will be forced to do the same as well (and for good)
What I am sure about is that currently MS is testing WM7 on HD2. I hope that at least this version leaks out inofficially

Windows 7 mobile is already in leak..
http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/17/early-windows-mobile-7-build-given-some-hands-on-time-incompati/

mickfarr said:
I'd say Windows 7 is being tested on the HD2 right now.
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Click to collapse
Well, WM6.5 has been tested also on Xperia X1 and finally there didn't come any update. I think that it is normal that the developers test it on phones that are able to work with the new OS, but it doesn't mean that HD2 will definetly get an official update - though I pray for it...

imperiallight said:
Windows 7 mobile is already in leak..
http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/17/early-windows-mobile-7-build-given-some-hands-on-time-incompati/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.mobiletechworld.com/2010/01/17/windows-mobile-7-rumors-getting-out-of-hand/
Certainly not the most reputable source... I would say... also doesn't seem to be a very educated one either.

Windows Phone 7 Wins 3 IDEA Awards

The Industrial Designers Society of America recently announced their annual International Design Excellence Awards (IDEA). Microsoft had won a total of seven awards. Our Windows Phone 7 alone have won awards in three categories..The IDEA program is considered by many as the ‘Oscars’ of design competitions.. Before Windows Phone7- 3 awards the iphone was the only phone to win one award in 2008.. http://blogs.technet.com/b/next/archive/2011/06/30/microsoft-scoops-7-idea-awards-for-design-excellence.aspx

From an "out-of-the-box-experience" and usability perspective, I think that WP7 deserves such an award.
On the other hand, the lack of "pimping" options as well as the "too simple" graphics might get boring over a certain time of use.
Whatever, let´s see what Mango brings. I´ll keep my HD2 for the time being, I even went back to WinMo because I still have perfect usage for some of my paid apps - which in some important cases don´t exist for WP7 yet.

tictac0566 said:
From an "out-of-the-box-experience" and usability perspective, I think that WP7 deserves such an award.
On the other hand, the lack of "pimping" options as well as the "too simple" graphics might get boring over a certain time of use.
Whatever, let´s see what Mango brings. I´ll keep my HD2 for the time being, I even went back to WinMo because I still have perfect usage for some of my paid apps - which in some important cases don´t exist for WP7 yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is my biggest issue with it, i happen to think WP7 is amazing now, but it would be perfect if someone could make a sandboxed emulator for WM apps, the vast majority shouldnt need to many WM specific APIs. An emulator or perhaps a way to duel boot
but anyway, its about time someone has managed to cut through all the FUD and give it some respect, its been slated big time and in my opinion mostly unfairly as well! But wait, the iOS and Droid bunch will find an issue with the award, probably because a friend of a friend of a MS employee who works on customer service happened to be on the panel of judges

The Greatest Threat = Microsoft

I was reading an article on Android Police the other day entitled Why Android's Greatest Threat Isn't Apple - It's Microsoft.
I think the article has a lot of merit - the author could quite well be spot on.
I don't know about anyone else but I've been so focused on the Google and Apple recently that I didn't even stop to think about where Microsoft has been lately and what they've been up to.
Everyday there is something in the news about Google and/or Apple - their new products, services, another lawsuit or otherwise - there is always something. As for Microsoft, in comparison there is virtually nothing - or at least nothing of great interest.
All of sudden, out of no where, Microsoft announces the release of Surface. A day or two later, Windows Phone 8.
Surface, from what I've seen and read about it so far looks quite promising. Whether it's an iPad killer, or even whether it will make any dint at all in the tablet market is yet to be seen but in any case, I think it stands a good chance.
Windows Phone 8 is what's really grabbing my attention. The more I read about it the more intrigued I am to actually get my hands on one and test it out.
I've been a die hand Android/Google fan for a few years now and absolutely love Google's products and services - I never thought I would be dragged from them. There is something about Windows Phone 8, and even Microsoft in general recently that is causing me to pay great attention to what they are up to.
Do you think that Microsoft is a force to be reckoned with? If they play the game correctly, do you think we could see Microsoft taking on Apple and Google with brute force?
Obviously Microsoft is going to have to work damn hard to put even a dint in the tablet and smart phone market at the moment but if executed correctly, I think they have real potential to seriously cause some damage and shake up the market to a great extent.
I'm just throwing a few random thoughts and ideas out there. I could be way off and the release of Surface and Windows Phone 8 wont make one bit of difference at all. Time will tell I guess.
Your thoughts?

They're screwing over everyone who recently bought into them, namely the Lumia 900 crowd. I can't believe they're "starting over" just like after they killed Windows Mobile. The public outrage would be enormous if Android did such a thing. Announcing a new software version and then saying that ZERO previous devices, even very recent ones, would get the update is insane. MS shoots themselves in the foot once again, right after things started to look promising. They just can't do anything right in the mobile market.
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slapshot30 said:
They're screwing over everyone who recently bought into them, namely the Lumia 900 crowd. I can't believe they're "starting over" just like after they killed Windows Mobile. The public outrage would be enormous if Android did such a thing. Announcing a new software version and then saying that ZERO previous devices, even very recent ones, would get the update is insane. MS shoots themselves in the foot once again, right after things started to look promising. They just can't do anything right in the mobile market.
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I totally agree with this. As a show of good faith, MS should allow early adopters to trade phones when the new ones come out. Something like $100 credit for the Lumia 710, $200 for the 800, $300 for the 900 etc.
But they would never do that.

slapshot30 said:
They're screwing over everyone who recently bought into them, namely the Lumia 900 crowd. I can't believe they're "starting over" just like after they killed Windows Mobile. The public outrage would be enormous if Android did such a thing. Announcing a new software version and then saying that ZERO previous devices, even very recent ones, would get the update is insane. MS shoots themselves in the foot once again, right after things started to look promising. They just can't do anything right in the mobile market.
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The only thing I don't agree is with the android part. Ics is on so few phones. Mostly only new ones are getting (especially moto phones). Unofficially yeah a lot of android phones have gotten Ics but officially not much.
I'm waiting for an mobile os as good as a desktop/laptop os. The hardware is better then my first real computer (I mean my windows me my first computer was runing windows 3.1 on a 486).
I would love to see that but for now I can only dream.
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I think Microsft is in full panic mode. The Iphone/Ipad and Android devices have shown the average consumer that they dont need Windows any more. Microsoft is scrambling to unify their interface so that they can hang on to curent customers. WP7/7.5 was a stopgap mesure to introduce the UI but fill the void while they readied Windows 8. unfourtunatly it might already be too late as the consumer market moves to Android and IOS and Windows 7 is looking like its going to be XP's second comming. (corporate use which is just starting to adopt win 7 will hang on to it for the next 15 years like XP) Windows 8 will just kinda pop in and out like Vista did. wich is good for the consumer becaus finally after 20 years of windows being the only game in town we will have choice. the big thing i think Microsoft missed and Google is just getting is the the secret to IOS's sccess was the content not the device itself. Apple got it all going in the 2003 with Itunes music store.

I used to be a WM man.....
....Until they stopped supporting it, then I went over to Android and never looked back, I would never trust Microsoft again, I can see the same thing happening again if they deem there is not enough profit in it for them.

densetsu86 said:
The only thing I don't agree is with the android part. Ics is on so few phones. Mostly only new ones are getting (especially moto phones). Unofficially yeah a lot of android phones have gotten Ics but officially not much.
I'm waiting for an mobile os as good as a desktop/laptop os. The hardware is better then my first real computer (I mean my windows me my first computer was runing windows 3.1 on a 486).
I would love to see that but for now I can only dream.
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The point I was emphasizing was that MS abandoned literally every previous phone. The Lumia was a flagship that just came out a few months ago. Thats like the HTC One X not getting a new software update if it were to come the next few months. Anyone who recently signed a contract for a WP7 I feel sincerely sorry for them.
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I agree that Microsoft has made some mistakes, especially with the upgrade fiasco because that was one of the claimed benefits to Microsoft, that like apple Microsoft controlled the update process and surely if you bought a phone you would see the newest update.
Although that doesn't bother me so much as I haven't gotten a wp7 device to get shafted. Wp8 does look intriguing. Especially the the amount that the mobile and pc operating share code. Hell directX support would make games awesome. However, one thing that after going from windows mobile and android that I don't see myself doing without, is the possibility to side load and use a file explorer. Without that I don't see myself using a smart phone is without that. It's just less pc like to me. If that was possible, Wp8 would look very promising. But heres to Microsoft riding Apple's coattails.
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I have been intrigued by windows phone 7 for a while now but I held back from getting one for one reason...windows 8 or whatever they were gonna call it. Basically I wanted to sit back and see how they were gonna further develop the platform to real big maturity.
The os itself looks really promising and smooth and has a lot of potential. I love the idea of live tiles and the metro UI. I'm quite sure I will be getting a windows 8 device and it won't be a PC first off either! Perhaps a tablet of smartphone.
I think windows is indeed perhaps the biggest threat to android in the long term. Unless apple really bring some innovation and make some changes to that plain boring iOS user interface. But yes windows phone 8 looks awesome and has loads and loads of potential.
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I feel that android and iOS in the phone industry will always be stable, people don't need to photoshop something or do something that requires a laptop or desktop on their cellphones. I do however believe android's and iOS's greatest threats is windows 8 on tablets whether its arm based or x86/x64 based just because its a better purchase, you have a laptop when you need it and a tablet when your on the go, that's one of the reasons why I replaced my laptop with the acer w500 tablet

PC for gaming : Windows
PC for general : Linux Mint
Tablet : iPad and Touchpad running CM9
Phone : S2 so Android with plenty of ROM options.
Would I switch to a Windows 8 phone? No because Microsoft are now so far behind Google and Apple it hurts.
Windows? Windied more like.
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slapshot30 said:
They're screwing over everyone who recently bought into them, namely the Lumia 900 crowd. I can't believe they're "starting over" just like after they killed Windows Mobile. The public outrage would be enormous if Android did such a thing. Announcing a new software version and then saying that ZERO previous devices, even very recent ones, would get the update is insane. MS shoots themselves in the foot once again, right after things started to look promising. They just can't do anything right in the mobile market.
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I completely agree. I hate this kind of planned obsolescence. I used to think Apple was the worst, with their soldered-in CPUs, lack of support for standard storage expansion like MicroSD, batteries that can't be user replaced, and cutting features from major iOS updates to older iPhones for no technical reason. However, Microsoft is really taking the cake here. Not only is it bad for consumers, but it's bad for the environment. We're already a society that generates a ridiculous amount of tech waste, and Microsoft isn't helping. In comparison, Apple is looking pretty good, because when iOS6 comes out, it'll run on the year old iPhone 4S, 2-year old iPhone 4, and 3-year old iPhone 3GS which will be 4-generations behind by that point.
When it comes to planned obsolescence, it looks like Microsoft now takes top honors for being the worst. I used to be pro-Microsoft, but now I hope they miss every sales benchmark.

mckeowngoo said:
PC for gaming : Windows
PC for general : Linux Mint
Tablet : iPad and Touchpad running CM9
Phone : S2 so Android with plenty of ROM options.
Would I switch to a Windows 8 phone? No because Microsoft are now so far behind Google and Apple it hurts.
Windows? Windied more like.
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Behind by what metric? Sales? Sure. Technologically? After yesterday I really don't think that's the case. I am not sold on the entire interface and metro design ideas, but you can see the phones are pretty capable. If anyone is behind to me, it seems like Apple is woefully behind...
GnatGoSplat said:
I completely agree. I hate this kind of planned obsolescence. I used to think Apple was the worst, with their soldered-in CPUs, lack of support for standard storage expansion like MicroSD, batteries that can't be user replaced, and cutting features from major iOS updates to older iPhones for no technical reason. However, Microsoft is really taking the cake here. Not only is it bad for consumers, but it's bad for the environment. We're already a society that generates a ridiculous amount of tech waste, and Microsoft isn't helping. In comparison, Apple is looking pretty good, because when iOS6 comes out, it'll run on the year old iPhone 4S, 2-year old iPhone 4, and 3-year old iPhone 3GS which will be 4-generations behind by that point.
When it comes to planned obsolescence, it looks like Microsoft now takes top honors for being the worst. I used to be pro-Microsoft, but now I hope they miss every sales benchmark.
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Go look at the feature list for all those older phones with iOS 6 installed. For the most part, it's an upgrade in name only. Planned obsolescence? I am running the iOS 6 beta right now on a 4S and it is quite obvious the next iPhone will have a taller screen. So many interface elements now feel cramped and the "window" into the OS now seems much too small. This includes the design for the App Store, the new Maps, etc. It actually seems to me, quite clearly, that the ONLY "very good" iOS 6 experience will be occurring on the new iPhone.
The bottom line is that the upgrade experience on all of these mobile devices is incredibly poor. No one really does it right. At this point they should be as open as PCs. You buy a phone, you install whatever OS or software you want. The idea that carriers, and to a lesser extent OEMs, have any say on this over the user is ludicrous.

Jared.M said:
Go look at the feature list for all those older phones with iOS 6 installed. For the most part, it's an upgrade in name only. Planned obsolescence? I am running the iOS 6 beta right now on a 4S and it is quite obvious the next iPhone will have a taller screen. So many interface elements now feel cramped and the "window" into the OS now seems much too small. This includes the design for the App Store, the new Maps, etc. It actually seems to me, quite clearly, that the ONLY "very good" iOS 6 experience will be occurring on the new iPhone.
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I haven't actually tried iOS 6 so I can't comment on the user experience, but it'll be more than just an upgrade in name. Since the core framework and kernel are being updated as well, it will run apps that are specifically compiled for iOS 6. It may not be the best user experience, but at least it won't leave people with old devices completely unable to run newer apps.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not praising Apple, but they are certainly looking better than Microsoft in how they treat their existing mobile users. It's completely the opposite of their philosophy with their desktop OS. Windows 7 was supposed to have lower system requirements than Vista so it could run well on older, existing hardware.

GnatGoSplat said:
I haven't actually tried iOS 6 so I can't comment on the user experience, but it'll be more than just an upgrade in name. Since the core framework and kernel are being updated as well, it will run apps that are specifically compiled for iOS 6. It may not be the best user experience, but at least it won't leave people with old devices completely unable to run newer apps.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not praising Apple, but they are certainly looking better than Microsoft in how they treat their existing mobile users. It's completely the opposite of their philosophy with their desktop OS. Windows 7 was supposed to have lower system requirements than Vista so it could run well on older, existing hardware.
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after owning an iphone 3gs I can say that it is a name upgrade only, when my device was upgraded to ios 4 not only was it slow, but it was crashing when I was trying to run apps that were designed for ios 4 and tbh id rather have not been upgraded than have been upgraded to software that was crashing my phone and making it almost impossible to use
sure you get an upgrade but tbh if a phone cant handle a newer os wouldn't it be better to have a good user experience on an earlier version and miss out on some of the new things than it is to have one like I described above
now I'm not defending Microsoft for dumping windows phone 7 for what ever the hell is next but apple is just as bad for breaking peoples phones so they HAVE to buy new ones because of how unusable their phones become

Is this the right place for the 7.8 debate? There's loads of threads for that already.
On topic, I think Microsoft are a threat to everyone right now. Apps on WP8 are potentially far more powerful than those on iOS or Android. The stuff they were talking about in that presentation is pretty stunning, with some amazing possibilities.

satchef1 said:
Is this the right place for the 7.8 debate? There's loads of threads for that already.
On topic, I think Microsoft are a threat to everyone right now. Apps on WP8 are potentially far more powerful than those on iOS or Android. The stuff they were talking about in that presentation is pretty stunning, with some amazing possibilities.
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They may be more powerful but the development cost and end price will be higher to recoup the investment from a smaller install base.
I found the lacks of apps and high price of apps the downside of my win 7 phone.
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Microsoft is a huge threat to everyone now. At first Microsoft products didn't communicate good with each other, now you're looking at a real ecosystem. App parity on all of your devices. Same application on the PC phone and tablet. No one else can provide that right now.
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fo.manush said:
They may be more powerful but the development cost and end price will be higher to recoup the investment from a smaller install base.
I found the lacks of apps and high price of apps the downside of my win 7 phone.
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like yourself I also found windows phone 7 to be tasteless for the same reason, but you have to remember this is windows 8, a computer os, not a phone one, you can run every app you can from your desktop on x86 tablets and hybrids
the arm version I'm a bit skeptical about but there is going to be a way to emulate x86/x64 apps on the arm tablets, whether its official or through a company like VMware.
plus its not just about the apps but its also the games that improve as well, you can play full pc games on windows 8 along side with those mini games like angry birds and fruit ninja. not very many tablets out there that can play just cause 2 or call of duty, plus with xbox live integrated it will be a HUGE calling for children who use xbox live on a daily basis, heck its not even kids that will enjoy the xbox live integration, adults can as well. imagine playing hydro thunder or some other multiplayer game with your child while you are out of state/country
windows 8 does pose a huge threat to the android and iOS tablet market shares, sure its not gonna kill them off completely because you got your fan boys on both ends but its gonna be like the pc market share is now 90% windows, 9% apple, 1% inux/android
vetvito said:
Microsoft is a huge threat to everyone now. At first Microsoft products didn't communicate good with each other, now you're looking at a real ecosystem. App parity on all of your devices. Same application on the PC phone and tablet. No one else can provide that right now.
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^THIS

vetvito said:
Microsoft is a huge threat to everyone now. At first Microsoft products didn't communicate good with each other, now you're looking at a real ecosystem. App parity on all of your devices. Same application on the PC phone and tablet. No one else can provide that right now.
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Actually, Both in Plat Store and Apple Apps Store, There are what we call universal apps fir both phone and tablet. 1 app for 2 devices. nothing new. Except for the PC part