Database Users

Disabling the camera

Hi, over the last couple of weeks I have been asked by a couple of customers that I have visited to leave my XDA2 at reception, or put it in the car because it has a camera on it and they won't allow cameras, camera phones etc in the building because of security issues.
I'm running a trial for my company, which is thinking of replacing our rubbish Jornada 928's with a pda phone that actually works, but we need to have a permanant way of disabling the camera's, Orange & O2 say it cant be done easily does anyone have any ideas?
Thanks in advance

You could remove the camera software in the extended ROM image with the er2003edit tool.
Upgrade the XDA with the newly created ROM and gone is your camera.
Of course, this is a software solution.
Anyone who reads this forum and has some understanding of how things work, can get the camera back up and running in no time...
And how would you prove to a company that you visit the camera really isn't working anymore, even with the cam software removed? There's still a visible lens. If you were visiting my company, I wouldn't let you in with in, no matter if you say the cam is disabled.
Maybe you could paint the lens black :lol:
Grtz,
Jos

Thanks
Cheers Jos
I guess u are rigth about the 'proof' of disablement - I was kinda hoping - rather foolishly - that if it was possibel I could get Orange or whoever to supply a cirtificate of proof of diasablement, but I guess that won't be enough for most people - Probably have to weld a plate over the lens :lol:
But I guess this is going to become a bigger problem as time goes by & reception areas will have bins full of mobile phones, PDA's etc that people have been asked to surrender before entering - that will put insurance up :wink:
I'd be interested to hear about any other peoples experiences with problems in this area - we are looking to buy well over 200 of these things and if other people would find a no camera version uselful - perhaps we can get an official mod made?
Thanks in advance
Ross
T

Can't you just tape over it and show it has been taped up. I mean using the camera on these things make you stand out very obviously. *They'd* know you were trying to take a picture.
OR you could just lie and don't tell them about it at all.
OR get a case that completly covers the lens. Again taking it out of the case to try and get a sneaky shot is not easy.
Oh well.,

if the camera is not needen in any way (i think so) you can make the glass above the lense scratched up with a fiber stencil, so there cant be done photos anyway - that also can be demonstrated by startin the camera-app, and anybody can see, that taking photos is not possible anymore.

I am still using my old xda ebcase that covers the camera lense. If I want to take a picture I take it out. If not then I leave it in the case. Have been in a couple of places that say no pictures/no picture phones but I don't volunteer the information. I just go on about my business. So far no problems.

removing camera

Hi,
I'm about to receive my Wizard soon, it's the 100 Model that Vodafone germany sells. Since I can not use a camera, and no provider hat the 110 model, I will try to remove the camera and get the back cover of a 110 model or a dummy. So my main questions are:
did anyone yet disassemble the wizard? Is it easy? pictures?
And which company sells a 110 version that I can get the back cover as service parts from? So far it seems Cingular has it as 8100, but I can't see anything on their site since one has to log in it seems...
Lars

I'm confused.. if you don't want to use the camera, then why not just not use the camera? Or do you need it at work, and work has a "no camera phones" policy?

exactly, guess I didn't make that clear enough, I'm not allowed to have a camera phone at work (and I don't want to switch devices all time).

a couple of people here..
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=31755
..did take theirs apart, at least a bit. There's even some images - but they're broken - and a bit of description on: http://www.howardforums.com/showpost.php?p=6298030&postcount=27
Here's one of the pictures...
http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=377474
But it doesn't show much with regard to taking the wizard apart

Thanks, that helped at least so far that I know about the screws to lose and how to open it... Will have to figure about the lens etc. when I have my hands on.

Before you go butchering a new device (which might cause problems the hardware complaining it is missing something), why not just try the rear cover from he other model before you remove the camera.
Another other option would be a small bit of plastic to secure over the hole in the covering using something like Bostick All Purpose. This would be removable if required.
One more thought is to buy the non-camera one from another network and unlock as required.

Of course I will try first without removing anything... My guess though from pictures is, that the lens will protrude too much for the other cover to fit. I hope that the ccd is soldered directly to the pcb, while the lens is clipped on, that would myke it easy, and no "hardware" would be really missing. And it would be reversable as well. Have to see that when I got the device.
Believe me that I did a really good search for the 110 model, but I couldn't find it, only one was Cingular, where I would have to buy it for full price, compared to paying ~200 US$ for the subsidized one here...
Now I only need a way to get service parts from singular

Your job sucks. I am glad I don't have that problem. Eventhough I don't use the camera very much, every now and then I do take a few.

his employer may also not be satisfied with just having the cover over it (if it did fit).. as taking a picture would just be a cover-removal away ( okay, okay.. bunch of screws.. but you could leave those out and pretend there's no camera %) )

actually my job is quite cool, and I hate all those handy-cams... I have a digital SLR and if need be a small casio if I want to take pictures...
From my view the providers are responsible for the current situation, as they want to earn on those MMS messages...
I for my part just need a smartPHONE or pocketpcPHONE. And if we're really honest, those pictures taken with GSMs are mostly horrible

Most, yes... However.. S/E k750i/w800i, Nokia N9x-series, Samsung whatchamacallit... all have quite reasonable 2MP cameras, and better is coming up (with telescoping lens and all that, as can be seen on many of the very thin consumer cameras).
It's not just the providers - it's people as well.. I have a very nice DSC V-3 myself for my photography stuff, but I don't lug it with me as it's fairly big. But even if it were one of those thin cameras, I'd be lugging around both a phone -and- a camera. If I can have both in 1 device, then why not? That's the argument for a PDA with GSM as well, isn't it? Not having to carry around both a PDA and a phone ? :>

sure, true as well... of course there's always different views on that... I'm just referencing the *current* quality of the pictures, and without a optic zoom and a reasonable flash, they just don't work for me... and of course I like the all-in-one thing... though GPS would be more important to me And I alos wonder, since everything is more or less modules these days, they could just (like with the HTC 100/110 or HP 6500/6900) make models with and without camera. From observing a bit, I think the need for phones without camera is quite big in enterprise environments...

Well.. once upon a time, there was the SD card. With it came enough bus bandwidth and whatnot to create the SD I/O standard. You could buy a little camera SD I/O thing, plug it into your PDA/phone, and you had an added camera. GPS ? Ditto - GSM ? Yep. WiFi ? Absolutely. All at the same time? maybe not, but not impossible.
Problem is that you'd be stacking devices, which isn't very attractive
Of course, on the manufacturer end, you can drop features from a 'high end' model and sell it as a 'lower end' model - like the WIZA100 and WIZA110 for camera/cameraless (or the other way around). But then there's the question of it actually being available to you
I'm curious, though - if you knew that your employer doesn't allow camera phones, then why not get a PocketPC phone without the camera -other- than the Wizard?
( I assume they exist :x )

There's a few I know of. Currently I have a 9210 Nokia communicator, but I want to get away from "proprietary" systems (Windows seems to be more open in this case). The upcoming Sony-Ericsson M600 (?) seems to have the same problem. And then there's the HP 9500/9800 series, but those are a) expensive, since nearly no provider takes them in their program, and they have a 240x240 resolution, which also can make problems.
The HTC Wizard just is the perfect device for me, and obviously it even seems to exist in a version without camera

TauTau - if you're still reading, check:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?p=244134#244134
For pictures of the device taken apart. And guess what? Looks like the camera is a module you can just 'unplug' Good luck!

great info, thanks!

demagnetizing concerns

hi all,
i am quite seriously considering the 7501 here in the usa, as an upgrade from the hermes, vs the kaiser, or eventual omni.
one large concern is the poss. of the magnet demagnetizing my credit cards.
as i almost had my honeymoon ruined 12 yrs ago in italy when i bought a magnet money clip and put it in the same pocket/area as my wallet, later after my atm card would not work i realized the blunder and have not used it since.
i searched the forums and came up empty.
the question is has any of you advantage users actually had their cards or other magnetic based(hd's) devices demagnetized, and if so can you tell me how exactly it happened in terms of proximity to the cards, length of time in proximity, OR if you have not had any problems and have had the advantage next to your cards/wallet, etc.
i like to use a leather fanny pack when walking/hiking for long distances and keep my wallet, cell phone, dig camera in it together but in diff compartments sep by fabric only.
i would hate to have to think of always keeping my wallet and main device exactly 6.25346???? inches apart to prevent disaster.
secondly maybe you engineers could tell me how to protect the cards in the wallet with a shield of lead( small enough to put in a wallet, of course or other material), or something that would block the magnetization effects.
thanks in advance!!
djsell

has not happen to me.... YET

There are a couple of posts in the Athena forum from members saying that their laptop hard drives have been damaged. Not seen any mention of credit cards though.
I am careful not to get the keyboard of the Athena anywhere near my laptop or wallet, I don't want to be the first to test it...

Haven't you seen Mythbusters?
It isn't possible for any type of commercially-available magnet to wipe a credit card. They tested cards with huge electromagnets and the cards were just fine. It would take at least 1000 gauss to erase a credit card. Most likely the "demagnetized" cards people keep swearing they have are damaged by other means, like scratches on the magnetic stripe. And it wouldn't necessarily have to entirely destroy the data on the stripe; just one well-placed scratch would be enough to destroy just enough data that the reader wouldn't be able to make sense of what it's seeing.

jsp91470 said:
It isn't possible for any type of commercially-available magnet to wipe a credit card. They tested cards with huge electromagnets and the cards were just fine. It would take at least 1000 gauss to erase a credit card. Most likely the "demagnetized" cards people keep swearing they have are damaged by other means, like scratches on the magnetic stripe. And it wouldn't necessarily have to entirely destroy the data on the stripe; just one well-placed scratch would be enough to destroy just enough data that the reader wouldn't be able to make sense of what it's seeing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That said, I believe T-Mobile recommend you keep the Ameo 5cm away from credit cards.

my athena has killed 2 hard drives (both laptop) so it does that, not sure about credit cards...

i just googled "credit cards and magnets" and found serious problems people have said they've encountered with the magnet in the sidekick-3 and losing all data on credit cards, dr. license , and someone tested a card with a 1 second exposure and the card was unrecognizable!!
also the "basics" of credit card magnetic stripes, and they are actual tiny magnets!
not looking good, ...and as this thread plays out some harddrives lost...makes me wonder how the advantages own hd is not affected.
i'll have to read up on "mythbusters", and the myth of these lost hd's and card data...i would love to believe it is a myth!!
the question for me is can i keep the advantage away from my cards and hd's 100% of the time!!!...knowing me, not a chance!!
djsell

The answer is you just need to be a bit careful - don't put the unit or the keyboard on your laptop or wallet. Also, if you are wearing a jacket with your unit in one breast pocket and your wallet in the other and put the jacket down on a flat surface, take one or other out before you do!!!!!

the answer is yes to credit cards in my x7500 manual it says to keep it away from credit cards and mag stripes as it can possibly harm them.
its just a warning not a guarantee just thought id throw this in there

Hi,
I can only speak of my own experience: on two separate occasions my Athena rendered my daily parking ticket (which is made of paper with a thin magnetic stripe) completely unreadable by the automatic cashier mashine.
Once the ticket was put in my bag right on top of the Athena(bad idea...). The other time I had the ticket in my shirt pocket and the Athena in my inside coat pocket, so the two of them were only separated by a few layers of fabric...
Since these two incidents I try to keep my Athena separated from anything electronic and/or magnetic. And if someone came up with a way to remove the magnet I'd be happy to test (I don't use the keyboard anymore).
Regards,
Silviu

The whole magnet keyboard thing is a bad design IMHO. Carrying around magnets with you 24/7 can't be a good thing. I do know people use magnets for therapy.
But for everything else it can just cause a problem. They should have just done away with the keyboard all together or done it the smart way like the Universal. Swivel style.
Sure the Omni might have this design but is the Omni going to have a 5" screen. I bet not.

I remember seeing something about removing the magnet(s) here on XDA-devs. If HTC puts them in, I'm sure some intrepid XDAer has/will take them out...

I've not managed to kill any of my cards (as yet), but now the UK's moved over to Chip and Pin, the stripe barely gets used. No problems with the storecards in their either mind. I quite often carry my wallet atop the closed Ameo. I have managed to knacker one lappy hdd though with my Ameo.
One thing I have noticed is the magnet seems to be quite focused - its grab doesnt seem to emit too far from the bottom of the device. However, the keyboard seems to have far greater radiance than the gadget (from holding them both upto a CRT).

thanks for all the feedback....still undecided on the advantage, i agree that if htc simply used the universals swivel design this would have alleviated a lot of poss problems....no magnet problems, adjustable viewing angles in laptop mode, no losing the kb or keeping track of it, etc., ....well i'll wait a few wks for the poss omni...kaiser still will be with an unprotected screen.
i loved the universal but for me it was quite slow, and the camera was essentially unuseable for my purposes, and important to have in the device.
ces la vie!!
djsell

[email protected] said:
thanks for all the feedback....still undecided on the advantage, i agree that if htc simply used the universals swivel design this would have alleviated a lot of poss problems....no magnet problems, adjustable viewing angles in laptop mode, no losing the kb or keeping track of it, etc., ....well i'll wait a few wks for the poss omni...kaiser still will be with an unprotected screen.
i loved the universal but for me it was quite slow, and the camera was essentially unuseable for my purposes, and important to have in the device.
ces la vie!!
djsell
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Whoah there!!! Every PDA I've ever had had its drawbacks - each of which you had to find a workaround for. It is true that the magnets require a bit of careful thought but they are the issue you come up with a workaround for. There are other minor issues but generally the Ameo is fantastic - and I defy you to go back to a smaller screen once you've tried it!!!!

I have been able to kill two hotel keycards with my X7500. Another one to be wary about, since you will need to walk back aaaaalllllll the way down to reception...

silviu.h said:
Hi,
I can only speak of my own experience: on two separate occasions my Athena rendered my daily parking ticket (which is made of paper with a thin magnetic stripe) completely unreadable by the automatic cashier mashine.
Regards,
Silviu
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Me to... thankfully it had my entry time printed on the ticket and so I wasn't charged a full day (it was airport parking too - very pricey).
Most of my credit/debit cards are probably already wiped by my Ameo, not sure, but I've not had a card swip done in ages since chip and pin so I suppose I'll only find out when I go to the one place that still relies on mag-stripe technology.

i agree apd,
my real objective...so i tell myself....is to find that near perfect all in one device to use for the longest poss period of time w/o having to continually switch to another phone and reload all my software and endure the new horrors of active sync, i am a physician that basically has the patience, with tech devices, that is, of a newborn baby looking for a nipple!!...I HAVE NOT MUCH, and i want everything to work fairly well and w/o side effects and time consumption.
i loved my universal ( you're right the vga screen!! ) and stuck with it for about a year, which as you know in gadget years, thats about 80 years!, but i really need a camera for my work, and its is insuff, so i had to carry a 2nd device, a dig camera which defeats the purpose.......anyway i just want to avoid the SERIOUS side effects which could be credit card dysfunction, harddrive loss, etc and certainly could live with the viewing angle, and size , since its evidently not that much larger than the universal.
we'll see...the omni proposes a 4" vga screen, 3mp camera,swivel design (minus magnets), and all the other stuff, minus the 8 gb hd, but with micro sd now coming out with 8 gd memory, thats ok.
maybe in its case i could slip in a material that would block the magnetization??!!
btw, here in the usa everything on cards seems to be magnetized still!!
djsell

Doodle said:
I have been able to kill two hotel keycards with my X7500. Another one to be wary about, since you will need to walk back aaaaalllllll the way down to reception...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
me two and the first time i only had my pants and socks on went next door to borrow somthing of my work colleage, at least the receptionist found it amusing

Well I was watching Discovery Channel about a yr back. N I remember watching Myth Busters. They did a test about demagnetizing a credit card and the results were if u wanna demagnetize ur credit card...... the amount of energy required would actually destroy the card into pieces first..... I Doubt Athena has the power to do that... =D.....
Cheers

Camera Flash Item??

Why dont they make a flash tool that plugs into your micro usb port or replaces the battery cover, so we can finally take pictures with a flash?
I dont believe this would be too hard..would it?

Using flash takes away all shades and your pictures will look like 2D drawings. Applies to any camera off course

himalayasplaya said:
I dont believe this would be too hard..would it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It would, as the USB port can't give any power.
Just get yourself a keychain flashlight... or even better, a camera.

darfri said:
Using flash takes away all shades and your pictures will look like 2D drawings. Applies to any camera off course
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uhhhhhhhhhhhh?

darfri said:
Using flash takes away all shades and your pictures will look like 2D drawings. Applies to any camera off course
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is the biggest crock of S*** I've heard in a while. I guess all of those professional photographers who use flashes are wrong, huh?

bluedragon1971 said:
That is the biggest crock of S*** I've heard in a while. I guess all of those professional photographers who use flashes are wrong, huh?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which is better, a less than ideal photo (and I'm not a photographer so cant confirm the effects) or a far to dark/totally black photo?

I know NOTHING of programing these phones, but from a mechanical stand point, I'm not too bad. Is there anyway to trigger something out the USB port when the camera is ready to pop? Something so that the light doesn't have to be on constantly, but can come on only when the camera is ready to snap, like a standard digital camera works? I can probably fab up a back cover with a flash built into it...

Why is this an issue? I fail to see any correlation at all between the equipment used by a professional photographer, and the convenience of a simple 3MP snapshot camera included in your phone. You were given a suggestion that addressed your problem and apparently you were quite upset by it. So, my turn... This IS NOT a 10 - 12 MP Canon, Nikon or Leica! Its to snap a quick shot of something for later reference - an event, a schedule, a location, a photographic note, if you will. The camera in your phone is not the primary device or function of your phone - its an 'added function' that can be effectively used as intended, or complained about by those that can't fully appreciate its capabilities!
Oh, and those professional cameras listed above don't make or receive phone calls, don't have e-mail or voicemail capabilities, don't play my mp3s or videos, can't use wifi to browse the internet or for online banking or for etc., store GBs of data other than pics & video, function as a gps unit, open or edit my Office docs, use text messaging, or play a myriad of games! And yet they cost from $699 to $999 apiece! How do those manufacturers' sleep at night? And you won't find a forum for support anything near as intense and complete as the XDA-Developer's Forum - all for what you can afford to donate!
Now I don't mean to preach, so here's examples: instead of a daily to-do or task list, I can take a quick series of photos to remind me! Pix of ATM card to remind me to go to the bank, of a loaf of bread or carton of milk to remind me to hit the grocery store, of the Suburban's front end to call for an appointment to get the front-end aligned, of the dog to remember his vet appointment, and of a document I need to complete by end-of-business! Those pix are worth a thousand words, and the time it would take to write detailed notes to myself! Then simply delete photos as tasks are completed! Too cool! At the store over lunch and see a new Sony LCD HDTV you like? Take a photo of it, along with the pertinent sales tag info, and research it later at home on the internet! Meet someone you haven't seen in a while? Take a photo to remind yourself to tell the wife that night, with that picture to enhance your tale! Need to match paint for a room in the house with the colors of the furnishings or rugs? Take a series of pictures with you to the hardware store. Take a photo of a suspicious vehicle 'just in case'? An accident, a surprise event, a crime or disaster? You at least have the camera in your phone - its way better than no camera at all. For your 'Keepsake Memories' get a decent camera, complete with a flash!
Hope this helps put things in perspective for you.
BTW, this was a rant - not a discussion or an argument, so keep your opinions to yourself. I've said what I wanted to say!
BigDad_1

When I started this thread I did not intend it to go out of control. I was just wondering if anyone knew where to get one or how to make one.
This is more along the lines of what I was looking for, except for the Kaiser instead of the iPhone: http://www.techeblog.com/index.php/tech-gadget/snaptureflash-gives-iphone-makeshift-camera-flash

I think a new back cover that has a built in flash would be awesome. If someone makes one, and it works, I'll certainly buy one.
I think about how much I miss my flash on my old phone all the time. That was a huge blunder leaving it off the Kaiser. Even if you never use a flash on your pictures, it was a handy flashlight. But it was certainly nice to have a flash for pictures too.

himalayasplaya said:
When I started this thread I did not intend it to go out of control. I was just wondering if anyone knew where to get one or how to make one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't worry, the thread isn't 'out of control' you just need to take heed of what kilrah has already posted. The USB port on the Kaiser isn't a host port so it doesn't (and cannot be made to) behave like an ordinary USB port on your PC (well not without some serious electronic redesign work far beyond what we as non phone designer sorts could come up with). Other options must be investigated.

Was the USB comment directed at me? I was just wondering if there was a way to trigger the flash 'remotely'.
as for some sort of add on flash, my dad has made several LED units, self contained, that fit in a 3/4 inch copper pipe cap. Mostly made of brass, it includes a switch and is heavy. He used it as a night lite for something like 7 days str8 on a single 2032 battery. Granted, it is not sleak, but it was self contained.
The main problem with a 'flash' is that the camera app wouldn't be able to process the picture any faster (focus on it and make adjustments for light) before snapping it because the camera app wouldn't know that a flash would be coming soon to compensate for a flash... unless we have a camera programer in our midsts? Or, can a camera app be ported from a flash enabled device, or do the OEM flashes stay on as long as a flash is called for, so there is no 'compensation' per se?
I am getting ready to purchase a TyTN II parts phone, I'll have to see what I can do with it. I've got a few ideas up my sleave. Does anyone have what the Proprietary USB B port pin out is, both sides of the tongue?

if anyone makes this invention i will gladly buy it from them ASAP

Heh, I've started working on it... at this point, I'm not working on making it interface with the camera, it will have an external switch and be something you turn on when you want it, and could also be used as a flashlight to light your way in the dark...
I am also toying with having it light up when ever the camera is in use, but I need to find a dead kaiser (the phone I own, so the phone I'm developing for) in order to work on some sort of interface for automatic operation...
Anybody got a Kaiser with a crushed screen and case that I could tinker with? *grins*

SaltyDawg said:
I think a new back cover that has a built in flash would be awesome. If someone makes one, and it works, I'll certainly buy one.
I think about how much I miss my flash on my old phone all the time. That was a huge blunder leaving it off the Kaiser. Even if you never use a flash on your pictures, it was a handy flashlight. But it was certainly nice to have a flash for pictures too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
/agree
I used the flash on my S710 as NIGHT LIGHT all of the time. I think an external flash able to slide in an touch the battery contacts would be cool. Een if you had to turn on the light by a little switch built into the back cover. 5V should be MORE than enough power to light up maybe 3-5 small LED lights. Even if they werent connected to the cam directly, im sure it would help a lot in low light situations. Just my 2 cents I like this idea

I am in the process of comunicating with LED suppliers, and will begin mocking something up here in the coming weeks... I'll keep you posted.
A couple of questions for potential users... What is better, to make a cradle to slip the phone into, to make the components fit completely with in the format of the phone now, or to make the phone slightly larger (like an extended battery pack)?
The advantage of a craddle is that it can be put on and removed fairly quickly... Downside is that it would be hardest for me to make... (grins)
The advantage of the lights fitting within the format of the phone now is that you don't have to have something extra, or an extra large phone, to carry around. Perimatly mounted, and ready to go at all times... the down side is reduced performance because of no extra batteries, and possibly fewer LEDs, and the fact that the owner of the phone would possibly have the hardest time installing it.
The advantage of an extended battery type back cover is that you can get extended battery usage (by use of separate batteries for the LEDs), and nice balance between easy on/easy off and size... the downside is that the phone would be slightly larger, and you would have to carry the extra back cover if you didn't always want the phone bigger, but wanted the option for a flash.
The cradle idea would be the most expensive by far, and quite probably out of my reach at this time.
The extended back and original size formate are going to be fairly close in price I have the feeling.
The extended back will probably be the easiest to build, but personally, I'd rather not use that style.
So, what do _YOU_ think?

I think Mag light and all problems solved
Seems alot to do for a camera that isn't very good anyway, but good enough for snapshots.............. After all it's not an SLR..............

The best one, in my opinion, would be an entirely new battery cover that had LED lights mounted in it, and was not any bigger than the original battery cover.
Something that is permanently mounted, and basically a part of the phone, and not making the phone any bigger (it's already a brick). Maybe a little larger than the regular battery cover, but not a lot. Hopefully not enough to notice. I'm not worried about battery life as this would only get used for a few minutes every day (at the most).
I don't know if that is even possible, but if it is, I'll take 4 of them.
Nobody ever uses an external GPS receiver, so maybe the stuff could go in right there?

stylez said:
I think Mag light and all problems solved
Seems alot to do for a camera that isn't very good anyway, but good enough for snapshots.............. After all it's not an SLR..............
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, a maglite would work... but I take many photos with my camera when I can't put both hands in position to illuminate the subject and hit the shutter... I go to the car salvage yard alot, and if I can't see a part good enough from my vantage point, I'll hold my phone up and snap a picture from there to see if it is worth digging for, for example.
As for it not being an SLR, MOST digitial cameras are NOT slr... and MOST people do not shell out tons of money for an SLR. If you don't like the camera phone, that's fine... you can carry a second item. For the rest of us, we'd like to improve on a decent useable camera, so we will, Thank you.

SaltyDawg said:
The best one, in my opinion, would be an entirely new battery cover that had LED lights mounted in it, and was not any bigger than the original battery cover.
Something that is permanently mounted, and basically a part of the phone, and not making the phone any bigger (it's already a brick). Maybe a little larger than the regular battery cover, but not a lot. Hopefully not enough to notice. I'm not worried about battery life as this would only get used for a few minutes every day (at the most).
I don't know if that is even possible, but if it is, I'll take 4 of them.
Nobody ever uses an external GPS receiver, so maybe the stuff could go in right there?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hehehe, my wife never uses her GPS at all, but I use an antenna adapter from Wilson Electronics along with a mini whip antenna with a magnetic mount... it go from 1-2 bars on a bad day (with TomTom Navigator 6), to a full count of 5 bars... unplug the antenna, and it goes back down, plug it back in, and it bounces back up...
I've looked into using that area, but it really doesn't afford much in the way of space, and I'm not too keen on modifying the original fabric of the phone itself, it just doesn't seem 'right' to me.
Your vote has been tallied.

[q] looking for an android smartwatch for swimming/surfing

Hi everyone,
As said on tittle, I'm looking for a smart watch with the following requisites:
- Android complete 4.2 or higher
- Cell phone itself (gsm/wcdma)
- IP68?
I need it for swimming/surfing/similar, due to my work, I need to be contactable (calls/email) everytime, and sometimes I go swimming/surfing.
I bought an Imacwear M7, but the people said it's not ip67 and that it will die if I use it on the sea.
Does anyone tried this? Any other smartwatch? Any other options?
I'm a little bit lost, need your opinion and/or experience
Thanks a lot

none of the standalone (phone) watches will be fully water proof, because of microphone/speaker, if ever there will be one
some of them might claim water resistance but i wouldn't wear them not in shallow water, let alone the sea
the Sony Smartwatch 2 for example, claims to be ip57, but can't survive a shower. that watch doesn't even have a microphone or speaker
might be build quality related though

Swimming and surfing plus speaker and mic? That's 1 ATM (10m/30ft) rating at a minimum. No such creature exists, yet. It is possible to do, but companies would rather sell fashion smartwatches with laughable IP ratings instead.

Send it away and have it Liquipelled. http://www.liquipel.com/

SerialKilla said:
Send it away and have it Liquipelled. http://www.liquipel.com/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't waste your money. Tried that on three smartwatches, as well as a fourth project smartwatch of my own. It doesn't work. The treatment wears off when it comes in contact with pretty much anything. Oil deposits in the air from cooking, your skin, cloth, sand, dirt.

airtemisa said:
Hi everyone,
As said on tittle, I'm looking for a smart watch with the following requisites:
- Android complete 4.2 or higher
- Cell phone itself (gsm/wcdma)
- IP68?
I need it for swimming/surfing/similar, due to my work, I need to be contactable (calls/email) everytime, and sometimes I go swimming/surfing.
I bought an Imacwear M7, but the people said it's not ip67 and that it will die if I use it on the sea.
Does anyone tried this? Any other smartwatch? Any other options?
I'm a little bit lost, need your opinion and/or experience
Thanks a lot
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I use Tempo Trainer Pro watch. U can find it here http://www.proswimwear.co.uk/ . It's includes a clip for dry land exercise. I am sure you will find it better then apple watch or Garmin.

I still havent found what im looking for...

Like I said before, no such creature exists. The best you can hope for is a regular smartwatch and then have somebody like me mod it to get it to a 1ATM (33ft) WR rating.

Hi lokifish Marz.... I´ve been thinking about doing that in my M7 smartwatch, but finally never tried it.
If finally doesnt appear that desired model, i will try to mod it for submersing

The M7 is like the Omate and is a serious pain to get IP67, much less anything better than that. About the only sort of easy way to get past a useless IP rating is fill the entire case with RTV silicone sealant, otherwise you are looking at a complete teardown and machine work.

I've been trying with liquid neoprene. It seals perfectly, very fluid, very good handling and also cheap!
Now I need to identify all the holes of the watch and work then properly.... It should work!

List of ingress points that need to be addressed to reach a minimum of 1 ATM water resistance needed for swimming/surfing;
Case back (requires complete redesign of seals or permanent sealing of back to case)
Case back screws and screw holes (requires complete redesign of seals or permanent sealing of screws into the case)
Buttons (requires complete redesign of button seals)
Camera (requires removal and filling of camera housing of replacement of housing glass)
Speaker (requires secondary sealing layer between speaker and outside)
Mic (requires secondary sealing layer between MIC and outside)
SIM Slot Door (requires sealing of screw holes and better gasket)
Charging contacts (requires the contact assembly in the case back be remounted and sealed using marine epoxy)
Display (requires the case be redesigned or pressure injecting sealant or marine epoxy from the backside)
Antenna ports (requires the bands be removed, the ports cleaned out. The bands then need remounting and a stiff silicone sealant be injected into the ports)
MIC and speaker secondary seal will negatively affect audio performance. This is however required as MIC and speaker damage will occur otherwise.
Display sealing issues are due to the lack of a large enough lip for the display to be mounted on to provide a proper seal
*Alternative approach (Untested)
Completely seal the display,PCB, SD Card, SIM Card, and battery in one solid block of silicone or some other water resistant material. Drawback is this seriously affects usability of the buttons, camera, MIC, and speaker. This also makes SIM, SDCard and battery swapping impossible.
(I've had over two years to think about this as well as attempt to get the TS and it's clones to pass a proper 24hr immersion test at 10m/33ft/1ATM. To date, I have not succeeded.)

Uffff.... so... you need to do a master.... its a marathon!
Thanks Lokifish... i think maybe i wont try...

i95,android 4.3,ip65,dial/answer phone call,you can know more from tinydeal.but i think Lokifish is right,no smartwatch can survive after a long time in the sea.

jack5847 said:
i think Lokifish is right,no smartwatch can survive after a long time in the sea.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not exactly true. If he wanted a companion smartwatch it's not the hard at all. The issue is with him wanting to be able to do that with a standalone, or otherwise known as a watchphone. That requires far more engineering. The closest he could get to any out of the box solution would be the massive Timex Ironman ONE GPS+ and all that would give him is something similar to SMS texts and that's it. The other option is a decently made standalone then seal it completely with a SIM inside. He would lose the mic and speaker function but would at least be able to send/receive texts and know who's trying to call him. Not a pretty solution but it would work.

I think i´ve got it!
Doodgee S1.
I dont link to any shop, but you can find it very easy. I´m waiting for some reviews...

airtemisa said:
I think i´ve got it!
Doodgee S1.
I dont link to any shop, but you can find it very easy. I´m waiting for some reviews...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, ignore any IP67 rated. IP67 is 1m/3ft immersion with absolutely no moving allowed.

I agree with Lokifish - I don't think that animal exists. I just bought the No 1 A10 to evaluate it for workouts, including swimming...
http://www.gearbest.com/smart-watches/pp_286212.html
...and am looking at the D5 for "office wear". I have to admit that I'm more attracted to the idea of "one watch to rule them all" - but - I'm also looking at $56 for the A10 (I bought it when it was on sale) and $130 or so for the D5 (or similar) so for the total outlay it's a pretty compelling use case. I was an original Omate TrueSmart backer and was profoundly disappointed. After spending $360++ for a watch that *wasn't* waterproof I went the "dedicated exercise computer as a watch" route - in the form of the Polar V800. I had to wait another year or so for smart notifications to show up (for Android) and Polar *still* hasn't done some basic data integration with 3rd parties like MyFitnessPal and the like. That was another $500+ and it *still* doesn't collect accurate heart rate data in the water. So - there's that... and of course there's no *real* smartwatch functionality to speak of.
I had considered the Garmin fenix 3 - and the recent addition of on-device HRM is interesting - but I'm mostly a swimmer so I'm going to be using a chest-worn device if I go that route. But *if* I did that it would be another $600-800 plus the cost of their data-recording HRM strap. As it stands now - I'm done with dropping multiple C-notes onto one-off projects and half baked tech from "the big companies". I'm going to nickel-and-dime my way through and figure out a way to make it work with multiple devices (with a LOT of help from my friends at XDA). I have the Bragi Dash coming in (sometime in February at last count) which I'm hoping will give me accurate HRM/oximetry data while swimming - and I'll be working to merge that data with the stroke/SWOLF data I gather from the wrist-worn device.
Side note: One of the advantages of the dual-device theory just occurred to me - in that I *can* carry a portable battery-pack charger and have one on charge when the other is on my wrist. So there's some element of continuity/back-up, should something go sideways with one device or another. When my TrueSmart would go dead I felt pretty naked, when it worked and was relatively performant from a battery perspective.
Anyway, I think this class of device will take some time to sort out as the companies figure out what the market(s) will bear in terms of durability and cost.