Database Users

How many Defy of yours have lost waterproofness?

Hi, fella forumers! I'm just wondering: how many of your Defy have lost (or still retain) its waterproofness up to now?
Mine has lost this quality about half a year ago. At first I noticed that there were vapours gathering inside the screen, which would go away if I opened the back lid for a while. But once the micro-USB port totally stoppoed functioning that I wasn't able to charge the battery, so I have to got it repaired. I was told that circuit board has water stains which caused the malfunctioning...
It's actually my seconf Defy, which was bought in Oct. 2011, after I've forgotten my first Defy in taxi... I was pretty satified with Defy at that moment and really value its waterproofness, so I didn't hesitate to buy a second one while there were already a lot of more advanced (but not waterproofing) smart phones on the market. Therefore, its waterproofness just lasted for roughly two years, which is much shorter than I had expected. I thought for at least five years it would be as new as just rolling out of the assembling line every time I washed it under tap water - but it turned out to be not the truth, sadly.
Well, I have to admit that I did wash my Defy regularly - in fact almost everyday, because - well, 'scientists' say that computer keyboards and mobile phones (previously it was traditional telephone) collect more germs, etc. that toilets. So eveytime I was back home, I just put it under the tap water, briefly let the currents to go through it. It shouldn't hurt, right?
Right now my Defy is completely 'hydrophobic'. I no longer dip it in water. I guess I will continue to use it for a year or two. Still, the fact is not up to my high expectation.
So, I would like to see if this is my own unfortune or a normal phenomenon. It's quite critial to know the result because if I do change my mobile phone, I would definitely choose a waterproofing one still. But now my confidence for such phones has been significantly weakened. If new phones repeat this fate after just a couple of years, I don't think it's really meaningful to pay more money for this not-long-lasting porperty.
Maybe the manufacturing technoligy has already advanced - phones nowadays are tougher than their predecessors?

Well, mine is about 8 months old (yes, I could've bought a newer device but thats a different story). In my time of using this phone, I would only say its water resistant and not exactly waterproof. Sometimes when I dip it in water (either to clean it after a busy day outdoors or when friends want to test it), i realize that some traces of tiny droplets do make it inside (looks like vapor sometimes). But it does not enter the battery area. This is probably due to the rubber lining. It still worries me as these traces of tiny droplets did somewhat enter.
I would suggest cleaning it with a wet cloth instead. Treat the waterproofing like it is an emergency feature...just in case
If and when you want to switch phones and still want waterproof, I'd say look at Sony. If you need removable battery, the Xperia ZR looks promising and if you don't mind not being able to access the battery, their other models are alright too. For me personally, battery life is important.
R u using any custom ROM?

My defy is waterproof to a great extent, but steam does enter, and sometimes condenses on the inside of the screen, and the camera lens. But under running water/rain no water enters. I once kept it in a bucket of water for some time, and a few drops made it to the edge, or maybe they came from the cover itself. So, it's good enough for me
Sent from my MB526 using Tapatalk 4

Mine lost 6 months back. the rubber round usb port got deteriorated and then came off. Now i cant cover usb port with the lid. cant find it selling anywhere either.

coldfusionhybrid said:
Well, mine is about 8 months old (yes, I could've bought a newer device but thats a different story). In my time of using this phone, I would only say its water resistant and not exactly waterproof. Sometimes when I dip it in water (either to clean it after a busy day outdoors or when friends want to test it), i realize that some traces of tiny droplets do make it inside (looks like vapor sometimes). But it does not enter the battery area. This is probably due to the rubber lining. It still worries me as these traces of tiny droplets did somewhat enter.
I would suggest cleaning it with a wet cloth instead. Treat the waterproofing like it is an emergency feature...just in case
If and when you want to switch phones and still want waterproof, I'd say look at Sony. If you need removable battery, the Xperia ZR looks promising and if you don't mind not being able to access the battery, their other models are alright too. For me personally, battery life is important.
R u using any custom ROM?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I've been flashing Quarx's roms.
I agree with you that Sony's Xpreia might be a good candidate, but it's only IP57 or IP55, right? So the grade is even lower than our Defy.
In fact it seems that nowadays at the market there are only two major series of waterproof smart phones: Sony's Xperia and Samsung's Galaxy S4 Active. Some sources mentioned that the latter is not that water-resistent. Of course there are other tougher phones which are heavily-armoured, but there are twice thicker and heavier - real bricks. Some have suggested that Lenovo's S750 is the next Defy, but as far as I can see, the technology used for waterproofness is the same of Defy's. Naturally I doubt if it will last longer than Defy.
IMHO, I think, at least in my case, the water enters into my Defy mainly through the back battery lid. It's made of a piece of platics that bends after year's using, so there comes the gap between the rubber band. Also, as vai0 has mentioned, the USB lid is vulnerable for the same reason. There's no conern for the headset jack, because it's totally made of rubber.
Anyway, I wish factories like Samsung and Lenovo will not follow Motorola and just make only one shot for good, but will keep designing new tough phones to the market.
By the way, I don't think phones like Moto X applied with nano-coating does not make too much sense, since the phone's still not watertight after all.

ymyzhifeng said:
Yes, I've been flashing Quarx's roms.
I agree with you that Sony's Xpreia might be a good candidate, but it's only IP57 or IP55, right? So the grade is even lower than our Defy.
In fact it seems that nowadays at the market there are only two major series of waterproof smart phones: Sony's Xperia and Samsung's Galaxy S4 Active. Some sources mentioned that the latter is not that water-resistent. Of course there are other tougher phones which are heavily-armoured, but there are twice thicker and heavier - real bricks. Some have suggested that Lenovo's S750 is the next Defy, but as far as I can see, the technology used for waterproofness is the same of Defy's. Naturally I doubt if it will last longer than Defy.
IMHO, I think, at least in my case, the water enters into my Defy mainly through the back battery lid. It's made of a piece of platics that bends after year's using, so there comes the gap between the rubber band. Also, as vai0 has mentioned, the USB lid is vulnerable for the same reason. There's no conern for the headset jack, because it's totally made of rubber.
Anyway, I wish factories like Samsung and Lenovo will not follow Motorola and just make only one shot for good, but will keep designing new tough phones to the market.
By the way, I don't think phones like Moto X applied with nano-coating does not make too much sense, since the phone's still not watertight after all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Sony may be ip55/57 but its good enough from what I've read. As for Samsung, I didn't suggest it because I don't like how they design things. Its appalling and I feel as if its insulting the consumer with their designs and material finish. Unfortunately, Samsung is one of the very few manufacturers that constantly deliver on 2 other important things (to me); removable battery and expandable storage. Still won't buy from them. But hey, thats just me. As for Lenovo, I have not tried it yet. Personally, I'm looking at the Xperia ZR at the moment if i choose to change (will still keep my Defy+ as secondary if i change ). A review in case you're interested too
Yeah, nano-coating isn't really water-proofing. I find it more like a water resistant protection. Sometimes there are phone models that become popular to the point that accessory makers produce cases that offer some sort of protection against water/dust. Thats something you can look at as well (with caution of course)

Defy is not water proof, it is water resistant. I did never wash it or put it into water and it is still in good condition (bought 06/2011), now with Android 4.4.
I'm replacing it with an XCover2 (IP67 certified) and also there the manual warns to immerse it in water although it has an underwater camera.

Which protective case/extended battery/ is galaxy gear worth it?

Hello all,
I wonder if I may ask your collective opinion. I've been an HTC user since the Desire and have had a One X for the last 2 years. I'm due to upgrade in a month on EE 4G in the UK and have decided to go down the Note 3 route.
I have a varied lifestyle which means I can be in a variety of quite different environments with different use profiles for my devices (how's that for jargon?).
I'm looking for some advice around the best options to protect and power my phone.
I run an industrial and agricultural engineering business, as such my working environment can change from extreme to office boardroom on a daily basis. Extreme can involve outside in the Scottish winter so cold and wet. Industrial means drop risk and impact and screen protection, scratch protection, solvent and oil protection. We also restore old land rovers so mineral oil on hands is a frequent risk as is scrabbling around on dirty garage floors. I need to protect the phone from this environment but also retain full functionality.
However, I also find myself in the corporate boardroom where I need smart and sleek and unobtrusive and don't really want an oil stained lump of rubber in the table or desk.
In addition, at home I have two young children who have sticky fingers, accident prone (I've replaced my wife's iPhone screen and case 3 times now, who help themselves to phones and tablets to play games etc. I don't mind thus too much as it keeps the little buggers off my alienware M18.
At work we frequently find ourselves in remote locations where signal can be patchy and offer away from power sources for a while so I'm also looking to iccassionally beef up the battery. The remote locations can gobble up battery with roaming increased and whilst I know you can adjust settings, it can be a pain in the butt to remember to do this.
Strikes me I need a rugged, oil proof case and screen protector with the option of an extended battery capacity both of which can be removed to return to stick when in the office/socialising etc. Something with a holster would be good as well so I can pick up without rummaging in pockets which all too often contain knives, screw drivers etc.
What would you recommend? I've seen a few different options but am getting to the confused stage!
Secondly, I've recently developed osteoarthritis in my left hand, this makes using a phone the size of a One X with one hand tricky so the Note 3 will be even more of a challenge. So annoying and painful is this I very nearly opted for an iPhone 5s and breaking my vow never to own an apple product as Jobs was the antichrst and I can't stand Apples hypocritical, smug, controlling, 'aren't we just so wacky and cool', twat, Bollox corporate image- just because it is skinny enough to be easier to hold in my left hand when used as a phone or thumb texting.
I then recalled...just a minute, these days there are a plethora of solutions for this problem, there is no need to sacrifice my deepest principles!
Now I'm not a huge fan of Bluetooth ear sets they don't sit well with helmets, goggles, spectacles etc. So I have been interested to see the Galaxy Gear watch which looks like it might be an option despite the fact that I don't necessarily want to be bothered by phone and text all the time...sales calls, the bank, irate customers etc....
Question is...is the current GG watch worth getting or am I better waiting six months for the new one? I'm not sure if the latest one is waterproof and shockproof as most reviews tend to be about its gadgetry rather than its construction as a watch.
Lastly, I do a lot of miles behind the wheel in different vehicles, from family and work cars to vans and classic cars. Is there a decent generic vehicle dock avaliable for this phone, one which can be moved between vehicles easily and which allows me to easily access the phone as well as spotify and audible. I've gone back to my Garmin sat nav as in the uk anyway, Google maps app went from brilliant to utter push about six months ago. I've list count of the cash I have wasted on various phone mounts for cars and given the huge size of the Note 3 am thinking about somthing specific.
Thanks in advance for wasting valuable time pondering the best way forward for my hectic lif. I'm determined not to trash thus phone and secondly, to actually get the best out of its productivity as I'm getting busier and busier and need to use the devices smarter, one if the reasons I don't is the environment challenges.
Cheers
Rich
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk

Why not just use a back cover to hold all the modules ?

I think that the current solution to the module layout is inefficient.
The area of the partition (marked in yellow) itself equals to at least another small module, IMO, a phone can't have so much 'dead' space and the more features a phone has the better. The partition area and the magnets also add weight to the device which could otherwise be used for more features.
Secondly, instead of 'wasting time' on fancy new features that we've never seen before, they should focus on getting the phone and modules to work together and release it for consumers for now and then later focus on these bleeding edge tech.
Thirdly, if water will spill on the back they could potentially sip through the cracks and get to the connection causing a short circuit and oxidation.
Lastly, the more expensive parts and the time to assemble them means the consumers would have to pay more. The whole point of this project is to make smartphones more accessible by making this significantly cheaper than current smartphones.
I think a back cover with clips or some mechanical locking mechanism to hold all the modules would be a much better solution. It will probably make switching modules a bit more complicated but it shouldn't be harder than changing the battery on a current smartphone (like in the Galaxy S line), in Ara's case it would be like changing several batteries.
TL;DR: I think a back cover to hold all the modules in place would be a much better solution because of the 'dead space' of the partition, weight, water protection and cost.

I think that the modules would also make the phone quite annoying to hold with the current design - the modules themselves seem smooth, but the partitions between them appear to stick out slightly more than the modules themselves, resulting in a bumpy surface. If I do buy an ara phone, I will definitely buy/create a case for it if they keep the current design, purely due to the annoyances created by the lumps and bumps.

I agree
Sent from my Nexus 7 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

I agree also. They probably have thought about it also.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

The frame does not stick out from the modules from what I saw till now.
I guess there will be back covers that comfort your hold.
I think they decided to use this method mostly because it is different and people will recognise you when you use it. Despite of that, it is significantly smaller than Xperia Z for instance and you should be able to hold it comfortably.
And I like the design, even more that you can print your own covers...
What I question is, how big the battery modules will be....
Gesendet von meinem Xperia ZL mit Tapatalk

Why not 3rd party TPU bumper cases?
That should do the trick, it will hold everything together + protection
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Just as I said.
But the point about water and safety is true... Maybe there will be done kind of "rubbers", ultra thin that tighten the gap between where the shell touches the endo? I guess things like that will spread if the ara becomes a hit
Gesendet von meinem Xperia ZL mit Tapatalk

I agree with the back cover idea but at the same time I do like the look of the design that they've done with it. As for the liquid damage worries, like keenofhiphop said about the rubber, the modules themselves will probably be sealed units with the only opening being the connectors which might make them somewhat waterproof hopefully
GT-i8730 Asseveration 1.0.0

They are definitely not waterproof. You could see at the first Dev con that is just a metal kind of box with a plastic shell, it's like a lunchbox made from aluminum: tight but not waterproof.
I, too, like the design. It's special and while it is the definition of pragmatical, it as well is unique and the fact that you can individually change it by printing shells tops off every other device around here. You don't like the design? Buy a cover...
I heard someone complain about the Epms and why they would not use any mechanics, but that way there will not be trouble with breaking connectors and warranty due to physical activity.
And they do not take up much space and hold tight.
Gesendet von meinem Xperia ZL mit Tapatalk

I think they did not considered the back cover as the primary idea here is freedom of changing the modules quickly and adding new features, like say your battery is dyeing so you replace it quickly with another battery module while on the other hand the back case will make it a little difficult and will cost a little bit of time.

keenofhiphop said:
They are definitely not waterproof. You could see at the first Dev con that is just a metal kind of box with a plastic shell, it's like a lunchbox made from aluminum: tight but not waterproof.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They are not waterproof - yet. The pre-alpha modules are not ready for prime time. Judging them right now is a little silly. Who knows what will come in the months to follow.

Covers are a good idea indeed, but you never know when Ara might be partition less and actully support the idea of orignal Phonebloks? using Lego like stuff as modules and there base would go in the holes on the main body

I love the design of the phone for the same reason I have a clear window on my PC. If I help build something or if I play a part in putting it together or whatever the case may be, it makes that experience much more personal and I have a lot more pride in the device. If I'm proud of something, then I'm gonna show it off, its as simple as that. So I like the "raw" look of the phone and it's semi-exposed modules.

Yeah. Why not use transparent modules to show of the processor or so
Per Regenbogen von meinem Moto G geKANGt.

I think your supposed to be able to hotswap modules. I don't mind the current design, but it should have some kind of border that goes on the edge of the phone to secure the modules better.

Hotswap or not, they look like they could slide out with very little force. Dropping your phone and having to pick up the dozen pieces doesnt sound that fun. I dont think you should be able to remove your memory module without turning the device off and as such a shell somewhat like a galaxy or whatever would be ideal

The poibt of the EPMs is that they need quite a bit of force to take off, once locked they even demonstrated that...

the critics
Hello everyone,
from what I've read here i can see that some are still thinking the old way about a smartphone.
It should have every new feature and therefore a waste of space for borders is a waste of possibilities. Wrong!
Will you use your camera, high end GPU, LTE, flashlight, fingerprint sensor, WiFi, NFC, audio jack, HDMI port, USB port, speaker's and what ever else your phone has all at the same time? Or will you take pictures and share them over the internet, another time play a game on it and so on.
The medium sized model has 8 slots at the back, i guess WiFi and NFC can go in one, or even together with mobile and LTE. Another is CPU, GPU, camera, battery and sensors like gyroscope. Still at least one left. Maybe for another camera for 3D movies. Or a second battery so you can use it for several days.
If you don't need one, swap it with another one. They are not big, keep them in your purse or so.
Another thing was of they fall off easily. No!
They use electronic magnets to keep them in. When turned off they are very weak but strong enough to hold them in when you move and turn your phone, but nearly unremovable when turned on. A modified version of Lollipop will enable you to change most of the modules while the system is running. A weak CPU and battery are included in the Endo, so nothing will happen. You can guess you will have some kind of menu where you can choose which module you want to remove so the magnets turn off.
Why no backcover or pins to hold the modules?
Because they can wear off or even break. If you want to change modules often, like you have different camera modules for different occasions, a simple one for daily use, one with optical zoom and one with a big sensor for darker pictures, you will damage your phone sooner or later.
The phone normally is 9,7mm thick, same as normal smartphones, a cover would make it thicker. If you like one, get one. They surely will be available, because everything is modular.
It's not waterproof. Why is that a problem for you?
Every less expensive phone is not and this phone is designed for the 5 billion people who don't have a smartphone yet, because it's very cheap and customisable for every need. If you want it waterproof, there surely will be modules or covers available that guarantee you that, but they will cost a bit more, simple.
Why should the first version of a completely new way of handling the mobile hardware market put everything out at the same time. Get this piece of high-tech-art to work smoothly. That's what Google promises. And what they also promise is that everybody can participate in its evolution.
So if you have ideas on how to give that phone a new feature, think it through and try to form it into a sellable solution. This time you can not only complain and hope it's done better next time. No, you can improve it or even invent it.
It's time to use our brains finally!

I agree with that. It is not good enough
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ProjectAraTalk.com - let talk about Google project Ara

xysawq said:
Why should the first version of a completely new way of handling the mobile hardware market put everything out at the same time. Get this piece of high-tech-art to work smoothly. That's what Google promises. And what they also promise is that everybody can participate in its evolution.
It's time to use our brains finally!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Man, you summarised all what I wanted to say;
The project must start very simple, it's aimed to be sold for the majority of consumers, not adding x, y, x', y', x'' and so on... This way they'll lose a very large layer of consumers, for it requires more knowledge about electronics than the normal.
Afterwards there can be any accessories or additions as you guys want. The hundred step way starts with a step!

Want this phone but am scared about the cracks

I currently have a galaxy S2, I have a case on it pretty much 24/7. I want the Z3 compact as it is the best phone for people who want small phones. I love being able to do everything and reach all parts of my S2 with my hand, I cant do the same with these large 5inch + phones.
Anyway I am hearing reports of cracking on the back,front or even both sides of the phone. Am really scared, because I don't want to just splash out £350 and it breaks after a week. People have been getting cracks while having cases on it even, some people say it cracks while it is in the pocket just randomly.
Basically I really want this phone but I am worried about how easy it is to crack.

I've dropped mine from waist height twice now and had it fall in the crevices of my car seats. No screen protector, phone is still mint.
Sent from my D5803

HellzHere said:
I currently have a galaxy S2, I have a case on it pretty much 24/7. I want the Z3 compact as it is the best phone for people who want small phones. I love being able to do everything and reach all parts of my S2 with my hand, I cant do the same with these large 5inch + phones.
Anyway I am hearing reports of cracking on the back,front or even both sides of the phone. Am really scared, because I don't want to just splash out £350 and it breaks after a week. People have been getting cracks while having cases on it even, some people say it cracks while it is in the pocket just randomly.
Basically I really want this phone but I am worried about how easy it is to crack.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjDE8z-_bHU&noredirect=1
http://forums.androidcentral.com/samsung-galaxy-s3/193035-galaxy-s3-cracked-screen-defective-not-dropped.html
http://forums.androidcentral.com/samsung-galaxy-s-ii/132590-galaxy-s2-cracked-screen-normal.html
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1257090
http://bobmckay.com/life/case-samsung-galaxy-s4-screen-crack
http://support.t-mobile.com/thread/38170?tstart=0
Never buy another smartphone then since they all "have screens break for no reason".

Statistically the chance that yours will crack spontaneously is still very very small. These communities are really very misleading in trying to get a global image of how common a problem is. As I mentioned in another topic, if you were to walk into a hosptal, and make your conclusion about the human species purely based on what you saw in the hospital, you would conclude humans are very sick and crippled species. But once you leave the hospital, you see only healthy people everywhere you look.

My suggestion (also what I am planning on doing)... Wait until after November 3rd, for everyone to get their American Z3 Compact. check this forum a week after to see if the topics about the screen sporadically cracking jump substantially in activity.
If not, I will order by 11.10.14.

HellzHere said:
I currently have a galaxy S2, I have a case on it pretty much 24/7. I want the Z3 compact as it is the best phone for people who want small phones. I love being able to do everything and reach all parts of my S2 with my hand, I cant do the same with these large 5inch + phones.
Anyway I am hearing reports of cracking on the back,front or even both sides of the phone. Am really scared, because I don't want to just splash out £350 and it breaks after a week. People have been getting cracks while having cases on it even, some people say it cracks while it is in the pocket just randomly.
Basically I really want this phone but I am worried about how easy it is to crack.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not true and do not believe everything you hear and read about this subject. The handling of these machines have to be prudent. If you drop a laptop on the floor for sure nonitor breaks.right.

dropped mine once
been a month approx. no crack nothing. im pretty careful tho..most of the time.
also, no case.

Just a suggestion, can everyone with such issues (or worry, like here) post in one of the dozen threads that already exist on that topic?
Guess that would help to keep the forum somewhat cleaner, thus more readable...

Our forum is a bit "undermoderated"

I'd say the chance of getting a spontaneous crack is about 1:1000 or even less. That would assume 0.1% of phones have the issue. That a far less chance than you going to prison this year (1:200) so I'd say don't worry about it.

HellzHere said:
I currently have a galaxy S2, I have a case on it pretty much 24/7. I want the Z3 compact as it is the best phone for people who want small phones. I love being able to do everything and reach all parts of my S2 with my hand, I cant do the same with these large 5inch + phones.
Anyway I am hearing reports of cracking on the back,front or even both sides of the phone. Am really scared, because I don't want to just splash out £350 and it breaks after a week. People have been getting cracks while having cases on it even, some people say it cracks while it is in the pocket just randomly.
Basically I really want this phone but I am worried about how easy it is to crack.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@HellzHere
Hi Hellz
Sorry but I've got a z3 compact and simply can't recommend it. That's a lot to like about it on paper but after mine experienced a modest fall onto carpet, which resulted in the back of the case cracking, I don't want others to suffer the upset that I have. The design is flawed IMO. The choice of materials are inappropriate for typical everyday usage.
Most of the high end xperias seem to use glass front and back . To me, this is insane. It creates a nice aesthetic but is significantly at the cost of practicality. The z3 compact doesn't use dragontail or gorilla glass... or at least Sony do not specify the materials used on their website beyond "tempered glass".
My previous phone was an HTC desire (yes the original one) and this has been dropped on occasion, onto pavements, etc, and one occasion in a carpark (for no other reason than it slipped out of my hand during use). I did not use a case with it and the worst that happened was a crack across one corner of the screen.
There is no way that the z3 compact could tolerate similar drops or falls. I do not consider myself to be careless with stuff but this new phone is a pain in the butt. For example, It WILL slip off surfaces, due to the low friction / high gloss nature of the handset.
If you are determined to get one, you MUST get a case for it.
I waited two years before a handset came on the market with the specifications that I was looking for. I am utterly gutted that mine is now broken, after only having it for a fortnight and it only being subjected to a very modest level of external stress. I did not even drop the phone - it slipped off a surface.
Then there is the issue of self-cracking. This is reasonably well documented and doesn't just apply to the z3 and z3 compact. Sony would have us believe that this only occurs in a small number of cases. I don't think it's common-place but it's happened to enough people for Sony to quietly repair stuff for free, under certain circumstances. Admittedly, Sony only really started doing this after two high profile UK consumer rights organisations / programmes got involved in the matter (watchdog and Which). The impression I get (from anecdotal evidence) is Sony does it grudgingly.
All I'll say is have a look at this xda-dev survey thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/z3-compact/general/sony-xperia-z3-z3-compact-glass-survey-t2900149
What I found interesting is that out of the 439 surveys, 26% reported back of case cracks, compared to 18% of the front screen.
However, of that 26%, over two thirds reported NO impact cracking i.e. there seems to be vastly more people who've experienced self-cracking than drop or fall damage.
Reviews also comment on the phone heating up A LOT during some forms of usage i.e. a possible reason for self-cracking.
Finally, from my personal experience, the camera sounds good on paper but underperforms. Some images look great yet I got pixellation on 20mb images in high light level conditions. I wasn't impressed. I also struggled to get the flash to illuminate a short distance, low light situation properly as well. More annoyingly, my friend had a galaxy S4 and her flash was virtually blindingly bright in the same situation. Then there's the issue about losing camera performance if you decide to root (apparently some of the low light level camera algorithms are DRM protected and the DRM keys get wiped when you root).
I just wouldn't go for a sony handset again - the phone design simply can't handle real-world stresses.
Just to be fair though, the screen's pretty good (in terms of brightness - you really can use it at minimal levels inside, which I'm sure helps massively with battery drain - I'm not commenting on resolution / PPI). I've found the battery performance to be simply great (probably the best feature for me). However, I'm realistic about usage (i.e. I don't have GPS, wireless and data on unless I need it, I typically pop phone into airplane mode overnight, etc - for me the biggest drains on batteries come from the display and the cellular radio). I got 4 days out of it, with approximately 40 mins worth of charging (because of wired syncing with my desktop). Admittedly for the last 30% of battery I put it onto stamina mode. Note this wasn't high level usage, just phonecalls, texts, some browsing, twitter, some facebook / youtube... but definitely not constant, screen-active usage.
The CPU's pretty strong too. Transitions between homescreens is super slick. I've not had slow down at any point. I haven't tried playing games with it though, beyond low-graphically taxing apps. Not too much bloatware and you can disable certainly some of it. Charging is good on it. I've got copilot as my satnav on it and a 1A car charger still produced a net positive charge rate (even though the sony charger is 1.5A). Charging from empty to full, with phone switched off is around 2.5 hours.
I hope this helps you a bit.
Cheers,
Gary

gazzawazza said:
@HellzHere
Hi Hellz
Sorry but I've got a z3 compact and simply can't recommend it. That's a lot to like about it on paper but after mine experienced a modest fall onto carpet, which resulted in the back of the case cracking, I don't want others to suffer the upset that I have. The design is flawed IMO. The choice of materials are inappropriate for typical everyday usage.
Most of the high end xperias seem to use glass front and back . To me, this is insane. It creates a nice aesthetic but is significantly at the cost of practicality. The z3 compact doesn't use dragontail or gorilla glass... or at least Sony do not specify the materials used on their website beyond "tempered glass".
My previous phone was an HTC desire (yes the original one) and this has been dropped on occasion, onto pavements, etc, and one occasion in a carpark (for no other reason than it slipped out of my hand during use). I did not use a case with it and the worst that happened was a crack across one corner of the screen.
There is no way that the z3 compact could tolerate similar drops or falls. I do not consider myself to be careless with stuff but this new phone is a pain in the butt. For example, It WILL slip off surfaces, due to the low friction / high gloss nature of the handset.
If you are determined to get one, you MUST get a case for it.
I waited two years before a handset came on the market with the specifications that I was looking for. I am utterly gutted that mine is now broken, after only having it for a fortnight and it only being subjected to a very modest level of external stress. I did not even drop the phone - it slipped off a surface.
Then there is the issue of self-cracking. This is reasonably well documented and doesn't just apply to the z3 and z3 compact. Sony would have us believe that this only occurs in a small number of cases. I don't think it's common-place but it's happened to enough people for Sony to quietly repair stuff for free, under certain circumstances. Admittedly, Sony only really started doing this after two high profile UK consumer rights organisations / programmes got involved in the matter (watchdog and Which). The impression I get (from anecdotal evidence) is Sony does it grudgingly.
All I'll say is have a look at this xda-dev survey thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/z3-compact/general/sony-xperia-z3-z3-compact-glass-survey-t2900149
What I found interesting is that out of the 439 surveys, 26% reported back of case cracks, compared to 18% of the front screen.
However, of that 26%, over two thirds reported NO impact cracking i.e. there seems to be vastly more people who've experienced self-cracking than drop or fall damage.
Reviews also comment on the phone heating up A LOT during some forms of usage i.e. a possible reason for self-cracking.
Finally, from my personal experience, the camera sounds good on paper but underperforms. Some images look great yet I got pixellation on 20mb images in high light level conditions. I wasn't impressed. I also struggled to get the flash to illuminate a short distance, low light situation properly as well. More annoyingly, my friend had a galaxy S4 and her flash was virtually blindingly bright in the same situation. Then there's the issue about losing camera performance if you decide to root (apparently some of the low light level camera algorithms are DRM protected and the DRM keys get wiped when you root).
I just wouldn't go for a sony handset again - the phone design simply can't handle real-world stresses.
Just to be fair though, the screen's pretty good (in terms of brightness - you really can use it at minimal levels inside, which I'm sure helps massively with battery drain - I'm not commenting on resolution / PPI). I've found the battery performance to be simply great (probably the best feature for me). However, I'm realistic about usage (i.e. I don't have GPS, wireless and data on unless I need it, I typically pop phone into airplane mode overnight, etc - for me the biggest drains on batteries come from the display and the cellular radio). I got 4 days out of it, with approximately 40 mins worth of charging (because of wired syncing with my desktop). Admittedly for the last 30% of battery I put it onto stamina mode. Note this wasn't high level usage, just phonecalls, texts, some browsing, twitter, some facebook / youtube... but definitely not constant, screen-active usage.
The CPU's pretty strong too. Transitions between homescreens is super slick. I've not had slow down at any point. I haven't tried playing games with it though, beyond low-graphically taxing apps. Not too much bloatware and you can disable certainly some of it. Charging is good on it. I've got copilot as my satnav on it and a 1A car charger still produced a net positive charge rate (even though the sony charger is 1.5A). Charging from empty to full, with phone switched off is around 2.5 hours.
I hope this helps you a bit.
Cheers,
Gary
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When drawing conclusions from that survey, you should not ignore that fact that people are far more likely to post about their dissatisfaction than about their satisfaction, meaning that people who are having issues with their device are far more widely respresented on the internet than people who are not having any issues. So if, in that survey, only 17 % of participants had their front glass crack, and 27% had their back glass crack, then the real-world percentages are likely FAR lower than those in the survey and it's all because people with faulty devices are FAR more likely to find the survey than people with devices that don't have any faults.
I've had this phone for a month now and still nothing has cracked. The phone hasn't overheated either. It does feel warm at times, maybe even more than most other phones but that is because glass conducts heat to your skin much faster than plastic does.
I doubt that the design is bad; a faulty batch of glass is a much more likely explanation.

degraaff said:
When drawing conclusions from that survey, you should not ignore that fact that people are far more likely to post about their dissatisfaction than about their satisfaction, meaning that people who are having issues with their device are far more widely respresented on the internet than people who are not having any issues. So if, in that survey, only 17 % of participants had their front glass crack, and 27% had their back glass crack, then the real-world percentages are likely FAR lower than those in the survey and it's all because people with faulty devices are FAR more likely to find the survey than people with devices that don't have any faults.
I've had this phone for a month now and still nothing has cracked. The phone hasn't overheated either. It does feel warm at times, maybe even more than most other phones but that is because glass conducts heat to your skin much faster than plastic does.
I doubt that the design is bad; a faulty batch of glass is a much more likely explanation.
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Thanks for the response @degraaff
Regarding the survey - I get your point but the survey responses did surprise me with the number of users NOT reporting problems. I felt that made the survey far more realistic that, say, typical forum posts, where complaints and problems are more likely to be documented than positive experiences .
My personal experience regarding heat is that the phone has been pretty cool for the vast majority of the time but did experience some noticeable localised heat last night, for no apparent reason - phone had powered up but I had no additional elements active (i.e. wireless, GPS, data, etc, weren't active). I'd expect a relationship between component activity and heat generated. Also, it was noticeable because I'd not noticed it previously.
Regarding the design, I'm sorry but using thin glass on something that is likely to experience impact damage is bad or at very least highly unrealistic design. There's no need to use glass on the rear of a phone, certainly not for visual requirements (i.e. it's not a display). It's an aesthetics and presumably weight decision. I guess it would help radio performance (although I don't know where the antenna is). I believe metal typically attenuates radio signals, so glass would be a good alternative. I guess it comes down to how much priority one gives to the durability of a phone though.
I rang Sony about an hour ago and they gave me a ballpark figure of £40 for repairing the back. This was based on the rep's experience with the cost of replacing a Z2 rear panel. Still a very costly lesson and I think Sony or resellers need to warn customers about the benefits of case protection, given the materials used in construction. I know I'll get flak for saying this (ridiculously unrealistic) but I'd like to think that a retailer (or Sony, if they had the balls to do this) saying "for god's sake, get a protective case for this phone as it's literally made of glass" would lead to more customers respecting them. After all, Sony chose to use glass in the main panel construction. They could even charge a wee bit more and just bundle a case in with the phone. That would potentially cover them and give end-users a choice about protecting their phone from first use.
Cheers,
Gary

gazzawazza said:
It's an aesthetics and presumably weight decision. I guess it would help radio performance (although I don't know where the antenna is). I believe metal typically attenuates radio signals, so glass would be a good alternative. I guess it comes down to how much priority one gives to the durability of a phone though.
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Sony puts an Apple-esqe priority on industrial design, so one shouldn't be surprised to see them trading ruggedness for aesthetics. Without moving the antennas to the phone body (which is encumbered by several patents), you need a non-metallic back for good RF performance. In addition to looks/feel, glass is vastly superior to plastic for it's thermal properties. It conducts heat 5 - 10 times better than most structural plastics. In a design as compact as the Z3C that is actually a significant technical advantage. That also means that users will notice short duration heat spikes (typically due to the radios having to drive RF power way up to cut through temporary interference) much more than with a plastic housed phone.
The reports of rear glass breakage do appear to be statistically significant, even after you factor in the self-selecting aspect of the survey. But this seems more like an issue with material or production quality, or perhaps insufficient design margin for CTE (coefficient of thermal expansion) mismatches. My Nexus 4 with a glass back has survived two years of use and a half dozen drops with nothing more than the standard Google bumper for protection. So glass can be used effectively. It will be interesting to see if later production Z3Cs (Sony US is expected to start shipping phones next week) fare better than early production.

kopsis said:
Sony puts an Apple-esqe priority on industrial design, so one shouldn't be surprised to see them trading ruggedness for aesthetics. Without moving the antennas to the phone body (which is encumbered by several patents), you need a non-metallic back for good RF performance. In addition to looks/feel, glass is vastly superior to plastic for it's thermal properties. It conducts heat 5 - 10 times better than most structural plastics. In a design as compact as the Z3C that is actually a significant technical advantage. That also means that users will notice short duration heat spikes (typically due to the radios having to drive RF power way up to cut through temporary interference) much more than with a plastic housed phone.
The reports of rear glass breakage do appear to be statistically significant, even after you factor in the self-selecting aspect of the survey. But this seems more like an issue with material or production quality, or perhaps insufficient design margin for CTE (coefficient of thermal expansion) mismatches. My Nexus 4 with a glass back has survived two years of use and a half dozen drops with nothing more than the standard Google bumper for protection. So glass can be used effectively. It will be interesting to see if later production Z3Cs (Sony US is expected to start shipping phones next week) fare better than early production.
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Hey @kopsis
thanks for the input mate.
Just for assistance to others, my manufacture was 14w37 (might have mentioned that earlier) but just for reference.
Not sure that early production comment makes me feel better #labrat :crying: Obviously understand what you mean though.
Have to say z3 compact does feel good in the hand. Really like the way Sony have somehow made the edges (not sides) grippy without being sharp. Pretty easy to hold phone and I reckon the size is just right for one-handed use, although I do have to re-grip with hand to reach farthest corner (top left, as I'm right handed) of screen.
Out of curiosity, when you say bumper, is that just side protection or back too?
Cheers,
Gary

gazzawazza said:
the survey responses did surprise me with the number of users NOT reporting problems. I felt that made the survey far more realistic
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That's a flawed argumentum a contrario.

gazzawazza said:
Out of curiosity, when you say bumper, is that just side protection or back too?
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The original N4 bumper was sides only, though the lip extended a millimeter or two beyond the glass in front and back so the glass wouldn't make contact in a low drop to a smooth flat surface. https://play.google.com/store/devices/details/Nexus_4_Bumper_Black?id=nexus_4_bumper_black&hl=en
It does beg the question, if you're going to sell a phone with glass on both sides, why not have something like this available at launch for the cautious buyers? Even the design purists at Apple made a bumper available upon release of their first front/back glass design (iPhone 4). It doesn't even have to be a great design (leave the aftermarket room to innovate) as long as it gives buyer's a usable option while waiting for something better. Hey, Sony -- PM me if you'd like me to come lead your mobile products division

Iruwen said:
That's a flawed argumentum a contrario.
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is this really relevant?
I simply felt that rather than having a survey chock full of negativity, the fact that we had a strong majority of responses which DIDN'T cite problems was indicative that perhaps the survey was more rounded than one might have anticipated.
I would accept on reflection that we don't know whether the distribution of answers is a true reflection of total owners' experiences. Obviously a bigger sample would make the stats more credible.
---------- Post added at 11:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:42 PM ----------
kopsis said:
The original N4 bumper was sides only, though the lip extended a millimeter or two beyond the glass in front and back so the glass wouldn't make contact in a low drop to a smooth flat surface. https://play.google.com/store/devices/details/Nexus_4_Bumper_Black?id=nexus_4_bumper_black&hl=en
It does beg the question, if you're going to sell a phone with glass on both sides, why not have something like this available at launch for the cautious buyers? Even the design purists at Apple made a bumper available upon release of their first front/back glass design (iPhone 4). It doesn't even have to be a great design (leave the aftermarket room to innovate) as long as it gives buyer's a usable option while waiting for something better. Hey, Sony -- PM me if you'd like me to come lead your mobile products division
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agreed. Btw Mr VP Sony Mobile division, perhaps encourage your designers to NOT use glass too Ty very much

HellzHere said:
I currently have a galaxy S2, I have a case on it pretty much 24/7. I want the Z3 compact as it is the best phone for people who want small phones. I love being able to do everything and reach all parts of my S2 with my hand, I cant do the same with these large 5inch + phones.
Anyway I am hearing reports of cracking on the back,front or even both sides of the phone. Am really scared, because I don't want to just splash out £350 and it breaks after a week. People have been getting cracks while having cases on it even, some people say it cracks while it is in the pocket just randomly.
Basically I really want this phone but I am worried about how easy it is to crack.
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We have same question... and still investigate from many Forum Post... I hope I got better answer to pick this phone or not...

worry not dear friends, apparently the guys at another thread has managed to get the people at evolutive labs to make the rhino shield crash guard bumper for the xperia z3 compact!
evolutive labs did one for iphone previously and it got so many backers/pledgers for it....hopefully we can do the same for this one..so come and join in the fun peeps! they need to get 1400 pre-orders before they can start production of this wonderful thing
(sorry you have to edit the link as i could not post url)
Rhino Shield Crash Guard Bumper for iPhone: https www kickstarter.com/projects/1081571316/rhinosheild-crash-guard-slim-impact-bumper-for-iph
PRE-ORDER HERE:
Rhino Shield Crash Guard Bumper for Z3 Compact: http www evolutivelabs.com/pages/crashguard-sony-z3-compact

I bet your smartwatch can't do this (Pushing the boundaries of water resistance)

Modified Omate Roma prototype tested at 1ATM/10m/33ft in a pressure chamber. The modification is done using off the shelf stuff I had in my tool kit and does not effect functionality or the ability to remove the caseback. The only thing that was modified is the case seals, the case itself is 100% original.
I would have liked to have shown the watch running while the test was performed but could not. The reason is that the dock I have is not for the Roma which makes it near impossible to charge it.
I have also tested a Galaxy Gear, Sony SW2, LG G Watch, SmartQ Z and couple others. Except for the Pebble, not a single one will pass even a 0.5ATM/5m/16ft test. Much less a 1ATM test.
Conclusion
Depending on the failure point of the crystal (untested), the Roma could easily be manufactured to withstand 3ATM/30m/99ft and beyond. If manufactured with the needed minor changes to reach even 2ATM, this would make it the only color touchscreen smartwatch in the world with such a rating. Or to put it another way, it could be manufactured to be the first color touchscreen smartwatch in the world that you can go swimming and snorkeling with. But if watch designers were designing all the smartwatch cases, this would not be the situation.
A thank you to Laurent Le Pen of Omate for providing the Roma prototype.
This is in no way an endorsement of Omate, or the Roma. It was just only the only smartwatch in my collection that didn't use a completely garbage case design. This is to show that smartwatches can be much better than what we are getting, and in most cases, they are full of unrealized potential.

Part two of my ongoing modified Roma work. This time it's what most (smart)watch makers and wearers will tell you never ever do.
Modified Omate Roma submerged button test
The PCB and battery were removed, and the case packed with cotton. The cotton has two purposes. One is to show any intrusion of water. The other is to adsorb the water to reduce the risk of damage.
I didn't have a 5 gallon bucket or larger so the test was done in only a couple inches of water. I have no way to record the test during swimming at a reasonable depth so that option was out. That, and I can't talk underwater.
Now a very few smartwatches may pass this type of test, but I strongly suggest you don't try it.
At this point I'm nervous to do higher pressure testing (3-5ATM / 99-165ft). I don't know what the fracture point is of the crystal and I'd like not to kill it.

Part Three: But these go to eleven.
2ATM (20m/66ft) Naturalist Model Submersion Test
*So after having a tank fail, multiple camera issues I gave up and just made a timelapse of the last 8hrs of a 10hr test. This will be a temp vid until I can figure out what the issue is with the camera.
Multiple hour submersion test. Changes from previous tests;
Different gasket material
2ATM (20m/66ft) (up from 1ATM in previous test)
Placed smartwatch in water then pressurized the chamber
The third item is key. This is a direct simulation of real world exposure. Either way, the modifications I have made have already put the watch well beyond any touchscreen smartwatch and into the shallow end (pun intended) of traditional watch water resistance territory.
Results:
I had opened the smartwatch every time I had to stop the test and did not properly seal it. From a traditional watch standpoint this is a big no-no. However, after multiple 3-4hrs immersions at pressure, the inside was bone dry. As you can see in the time lapse, the pump was attached the whole time for the longer test. I did not remove the pump fast enough at the end causing a rapid decompression. This may have resulted in water intrusion at the very end as the cotton pad inside the watch showed signs of water intrusion.
Conclusion:
Inconclusive for time periods beyond 3-4hrs of immersion and needs to be rerun. Still, no water intrusion at the 3-4hr mark on multiple occasions, not many smartwatches can say that.

Looks like part four will be redoing part three after getting the recording issues resolved. Still 3-4hrs at 2ATM (20m/66ft) with no water ingress is nothing to laugh at.

I have not been able to resolve the long video issues, so no video yet again.
So it did not pass at 2.5 ATM. I dropped the pressure to 1.25ATM (ISO requirement for certification at 1ATM), and let it stay continuously immersed at pressure for 20hrs.
BONE DRY
What's the next step? Do another timelapse at pressure while the smartwatch is on. I've been feeling pretty rough for the past couple days. With taking care of a little one, getting stuff ready for my move, and the testing, I'm beat and will probably not do another extended test. It will most likely be a short couple hour test. Even with such a short test, it sets the bar pretty high.

Part Four : I told you so but you didn't listen
Powered Immersion Test
While not a long duration test, this is four times longer than the 30min IP tests done on Motorola ,Samsung ,LG and almost all others, at a depth equivalent that is ten times greater. Or about seven times that of a Sony SW3.
Pressure : Slightly over 1ATM (10m/33ft)
Duration : 2hr 4m
Result : Still functioning
Original Functionality: Intact
So my questions to smartwatch manufacturers and users is this. If one guy, with all the wrong tools, no technical training in the field, and no budget, do this for pennies, why can't they? Why won't they? And why on Earth are you, the person that spent your hard earned money on your smartwatch, putting up with it?
Also. A public challenge goes out to Apple Watch owners to meet, or beat, 2hrs at 1ATM and still have a functional smartwatch. Make that any color touchscreen smartwatch owner except the Timex Ironman One GPS. It can do 50m but is hardly what one could consider a watch.
Again. This is not an endorsement of this smartwatch, or any smartwatch for that matter. This shows part of what I've been saying for almost two years about smartwatches and their design.

The next major project will have to wait til after the move (it's a money thing ,that being that I'm broke). That being a 200m dive rated color touchscreen smartwatch. I do have one more mod planned for this one but that's a private project for ODM/OEM partnerships should they happen.