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Being a home theater enthusiast and calibrating every hdtv I've got me thinking if its possible on android too. And I don't mean the sensitivity or the like. I mean video as in color and brightness. I watch alot of videos and to my experience both are off. Brightness is way too low you can't make out details in dark scenes. Some would say the color is oversaturated... it isn't. Brightness is too low making colors seem this way. A few notches in the brightness scale should take care of it. Anyone know if its possible?
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Try manually setting your brightness settings in SETTINGS->DISPLAY->BRIGHTNESS?
I'm a professional video editor and I'm not THAT crazy about having perfect settings for watching video on my phone. Why? I'm usually not in ideal viewing conditions to watch an internet quality video for a few moments on a 4 inch screen with a dinky mono speaker.
Although, I know a few Apple Engineers in Cupertino that are REAL geeks that put bars and tone on their iPhone to just show off.
RushAOZ said:
Being a home theater enthusiast and calibrating every hdtv I've got me thinking if its possible on android too. And I don't mean the sensitivity or the like. I mean video as in color and brightness. I watch alot of videos and to my experience both are off. Brightness is way too low you can't make out details in dark scenes. Some would say the color is oversaturated... it isn't. Brightness is too low making colors seem this way. A few notches in the brightness scale should take care of it. Anyone know if its possible?
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
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Click to collapse
http://project-voodoo.org/color
It's in vision kernel.
I was thinking of having my Windows desktop show on my Epic's screen using a VNC client. Plop the colorimeter on the Epic, and run the color calibration software on Windows. That would generate an ICC profile for the Epic's screen.
The next question though is how do I get the Epic to apply the ICC profile?
And in case you're curious, my colorimeter measured 7730-7740 K for pure white on the Epic's screen. So yes, it's rather blue.
Yea, nothing personal to the OP, but the colors are most definitely oversaturated. Has nothing to do with the brightness. Samsung, being a display manufacturer as well as a phone manufacturer, has display manufacturer tendencies. One of which is to oversaturate color on a display in order to give a "wow factor" to indiscriminate purchasers who generally assume that brighter and more vivid are better. Every amoled display used on a phone to date has had blooming out the wazoo. Not to mention how ridiculous skin tones look in photographs. I also wish there were a way to calibrate these things. I use a Thunderbolt which is now exhibiting some of the same issues with it's SLCD screen. Although I'm pretty sure that all they did was take the screens used on the EVO and pump up the color saturation. Guessing that's internally what the "S" stands for. The whites are nicer on the thunderbolt though, so at least I get that I guess.
Banding, otherwise known as contouring, is a digital artifact common to images, displays or apps of 16bit(thousands of colours) or less.
Gradient image
Viewing the 24bit image in the above link will not show banding on a 24bit display(3 x 8bit channels of R, G & B millions of colours) if viewed in a 24bit app.
If 32 distinct bands are seen, possibly with every 1/3 band being a green shade, then the screen or the image viewing application is not 24bit capable.
Viewing 16bit or lower resolution gradient images on your screen will also show banding.
The Android browser shows banding with this image while the Dolphin HD browser does not.
In short, the SGNote has a 24bit display, which will show banding if viewing 16bit or lower images or using a 16bit or lower viewing application.
More on screen bits
Im noticing lots of banding in lots of different apps :-/
Same here, also happens with Google apps like the Market. Not sure what we can do about it anybody has suggestions?
Bigmille said:
Same here, also happens with Google apps like the Market. Not sure what we can do about it anybody has suggestions?
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Click to collapse
At least it is not the Note's display hardware that is the issue.
ICS may upgrade some Android OS apps to 24bit.
Thank You for this
This proves that Apps that display banding simply aren't rendering at 24bit.
I was leaning towards there being an issue with the screen as this problem was not noticeable on my previous android devices.
This clarifies everything.
Thanks.
qazzi76 said:
This proves that Apps that display banding simply aren't rendering at 24bit.
I was leaning towards there being an issue with the screen as this problem was not noticeable on my previous android devices.
This clarifies everything.
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are welcome.
It bugged me too, until I got to the bottom of it.
Trust your eyes, the screen is glorious.
I too don't believe the hardware to be the issue. I suspect it's more to do with having a device with a smallish screen and a large 1280x800 resolution. Higher res images and videos look amazing. If the image is quite compressed (i.e. lossy) then the higher resolution screen will show this more than a low resolution screen. Garbage in, garbage out comes to mind. We need all apps and videos and images to be high resolution 24bit minimum to make the most of our amazing screen .
paulshields said:
I too don't believe the hardware to be the issue. I suspect it's more to do with having a device with a smallish screen and a large 1280x800 resolution. Higher res images and videos look amazing. If the image is quite compressed (i.e. lossy) then the higher resolution screen will show this more than a low resolution screen. Garbage in, garbage out comes to mind. We need all apps and videos and images to be high resolution 24bit minimum to make the most of our amazing screen .
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Click to collapse
Excellent. I will put it in a drawer for a year or so then. Hopefully by then there will be some video I can watch.
seepage said:
Excellent. I will put it in a drawer for a year or so then. Hopefully by then there will be some video I can watch.
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Click to collapse
ha ha . Listen, think of it like this. You've probably got a high resolution monitor attached to your computer. Do you prefer watching videos at 420p and lower or 720p and higher? No doubt the answer is higher resolution to match your monitor.
What Samsung has done is squeeze in a screen with similar resolution to a 13" laptop, but in a 5.3" mobile device! So we're going to come across lots of images and videos aimed at 'normal' mobile devices, which won't look so great on our high-res screen. To make the most of the screen you can copy 720p or 1080p high profile videos to your sdcard, and they will look incredible on playback, but they will also be large and it's a slow process, and if the video is long then it'll also hit the limitation with FAT max file sizes. Those issues aren't the fault of the screen though. It's simple really. If you want to make the most of the screen density then you have to provide it with good quality source material suitable for a high resolution screen.
Do you think that its just software? No hardware? Do you think that ICS will fix this?
I came from dell streak and its realy hard to watch on note specialy on dark scene.
even opening xda app it has banding problems
rockysiccion said:
Do you think that its just software? No hardware? Do you think that ICS will fix this?
I came from dell streak and its realy hard to watch on note specialy on dark scene.
even opening xda app it has banding problems
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's definitely not a hardware issue because the screen is definitely 24bit colour. It displays well in the right app. You could swap apps for those that handle higher bit images. If you use Dolphin HD, possibly other browsers, webpages are seen in 24bit, if they are 24bit images. I don't know but there must be alternative picture viewing apps. Dice Player is a high res video viewer. As for system graphics, they don't look so bad to me. For games etc, it means living with banding until the maker upgrades? This is always the case on computers.
Be thankful Samsung have not rorted us.
Apple has ripped off it's customers many times selling lo-res screens as high res:
"Apple has received a new class action complaint alleging the MacBook
does not support millions of colors, but rather 16 bit color, which is
dithered to approximate millions of colors."
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 16:37:17 -0500
I don't have a Note yet, but can somebody try with QuickPic, it has an option in it's settings to force decode in 32bit mode.
That could clarify if it is a software or hardware problem...
paulshields said:
ha ha . Listen, think of it like this. You've probably got a high resolution monitor attached to your computer. Do you prefer watching videos at 420p and lower or 720p and higher? No doubt the answer is higher resolution to match your monitor.
What Samsung has done is squeeze in a screen with similar resolution to a 13" laptop, but in a 5.3" mobile device! So we're going to come across lots of images and videos aimed at 'normal' mobile devices, which won't look so great on our high-res screen. To make the most of the screen you can copy 720p or 1080p high profile videos to your sdcard, and they will look incredible on playback, but they will also be large and it's a slow process, and if the video is long then it'll also hit the limitation with FAT max file sizes. Those issues aren't the fault of the screen though. It's simple really. If you want to make the most of the screen density then you have to provide it with good quality source material suitable for a high resolution screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The video and photographs shot with the phone's own camera have the same problems as other video and pictures. Surely they should display OK.
Some Android apps only render in 16bit
seepage said:
The video and photographs shot with the phone's own camera have the same problems as other video and pictures. Surely they should display OK.
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Click to collapse
The phone has a 24bit 16 million colour display.
Some apps, including the picture viewing gallery app do not display 24bit colour in the 24bit quality they were made. See here
Thanks, Xaddict, this all makes sense regarding 24- versus 16-bit rendering.
Still, shouldn't intelligent/adaptive codecs be able to bridge the chasm by re-rendering 16-bit source material into some sort of "interleaved" or "inferred" gradual gradation or gradient... a codec to "smooth" the blend, if you will.
It's a codec issue, isn't it?
I wonder if Samsung or ICS will solve this first, if ever...
It feels like the Note has the same display like the first Desire (Amoled) that I've owned.
Its been said that this is a software problem, I've never seen this fixed with a 3rd party custom ROM since the Galaxy S1 days. Even 'x' ROM still shows color banding.
Found a solution for the wallpaper. Install MultiPicture live wallpaper (free from market) Go into it's settings and select "Color depth", then select "True color (24-bit). If the image you selected and used is 24bit, there will be no banding in your wallpaper. Hope this helped, cheers
Depending on the wallpaper you'ed still see massive banding.
EarlZ said:
Depending on the wallpaper you'ed still see massive banding.
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Click to collapse
It's not a software problem.
If anything, it's a low quality image being viewed on a 24bit screen problem.
Today,I was playing around with my Note, still worried about the black clipping and blocky videos changing ROM after ROM and didnt find any solution.
Out of curiosiry, I copied the GammaTest image to my PC, went to my display adapter settings, and cranked up the gamma from 1.0(default) to 1.5-1.9 and guess what?
http://imageupload.org/en/file/235342/gamma-normal.jpg.html
The first image shows the gammatest as it should. Here the computer's default gamma is set to 1
I increased my gamma value to 1.5-1.9 and this is the result.
http://www.imageupload.org/en/file/235344/gammahigh.jpg.html
And when setting the gamma to highier values, play all your test videos and images, there will be clipping and blocky pixellation just like you see on the Note. Try this for yourself on your PC.
This clearly shows that the clipping on the note is a software issue rather than a hardware defect and if we could somehow get to tune the gamma on the note, its the END of all the clipping and the horrible video playback.
A point to note is, when increasing gamma values, the images tend to become artificially bright and on reducing them, they tend to get darker. Maybe this explains why the Note produces the best whites as far as AMOLED displays are concerned and seems to be brighter than all the other Galaxy devices which includes, the Galaxy S, S2 and S3.
So the only and truly effective solution is to find a way to tune gamma values under the MDNIE settings and this should be implemented in a kernel. I've seen none so far which is capable of doing this. All CM9 based ROMS have Gamma control disabled under MDNIE settings. This also explains why the same problems were corrected on the Google Nexus with the LEAN Kernel.
This is definitely a GAMMA issue and definitely Software related.
I may be wrong, please do feel free to correct me if so.
Although I do agree (in my non-expert and in this regard completely worthless opinion) it is probably a software issue, this does not confirm whether our Notes' black crush is caused by software or hardware, or if it is fixable. This only means that you can make your display crappy by cranking up the gamma too high. The same result can be achieved in different ways.
I still dont understand the gamma test picture.. Which numbers should be seen? I see 4 to 21 perfectly and can barely see 3.. Should 2 and 3 be seen too?
Sry if I went off topic..
First of all, the image should be quite dark to see in a lit environment and on an ideally calibrated display, the image show a gradual fade to black. So theoritically speaking, on a good display, the left side is barely visible and is seen as a dark gray fading to black.
On the stock ICS kernels, the image is seen upto 4 and then clips to black. If you enable, Force GPU acceleration, you can see upto 1 which means more clipping. On stock GB, you can see all the way to 1. It varies from kernel to kernel.
We just need some way to access the gamma control under MDNIE settings on the Note which is at present, disabled on the CM9 kernel and is not present on any other kernels either.
When you wrote "CONFIRMED" i thought there was some quote from Samsung saying it was a software issue and they were looking into it
I had mailed GSMArena regarding this issue and even after they published it and many other blogs too, Samsung didnt give a damn about it. So I dont think they do now either. The EMMC Bug is more of a fatal issue and to date, even after announcing that they are "working" on a fix, there are none. People are literally bricking from the latest stock when all the other custom kernels have disabled the MMC_CAP_ERASE value from their kernels. So its better not to rely on Samsung for anything. They just sell their phones and thats it. The Note and everything alike are experimental phones and we are their lab rats. They basically only focus on the flagship Galaxy Phone. read GS3 and new ways to sell it.
satishp said:
We just need some way to access the gamma control under MDNIE settings on the Note which is at present, disabled on the CM9 kernel and is not present on any other kernels either.
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Yeah because we have a unique display that is different from the I9100/I777 - so display tweaks for those won't work on N7000.
Sent from my GT-P7510 using Tapatalk 2
problem
1) Seriously guys, we have to get to the root of this problem. If we can get to the gamma setting on this display we can solve the problem. But how hard can it be to get there?
2) On the other hand, i think that what you did, was change the gamma on an LCD display. As far as I know there are a lot of diferences between LCD and OLED, appart from the fact that we have a pentile display (2 subpixels per pixel, pixels are in RGBG formation) and the LCD uses 3 subpixels per pixel (RGB).
We should join our forces and start on a mission to solve this issue once and for all.
Regards.
It is DEFINITELY a software issue. Try this out: reboot your phone, and while it is still booting and slowish, quickly start the calculator and see the top of the screen perfect and then, for no apparent reason, it gets some kind of a half-circle color spill. Also, when you open the gallery, find a folder with a stock video clip with jelly fish, and when you open that folder, gallery turns to black, and for a half of second it is perfect and then gets sort of color rendering problem. Final test is to start the camera when the night falls, switch to camcorder (for the smoothness), and just look at the screen, it is perfect, no black clipping, and then, as soon as you take the picture, the picture spoils and you get the black clipping- the live image on the screen while observing is totally normal. So, it is 100% SW issue!
I compared my Note to my friend's SIII and the screen is much darker on S3, and images themselves. So, it IS gamma issue. When you open the front camera on the SIII, in a bit darker environment, and look at yourself, you barely see the shape of your head, since gamma is much lower and it only picks up the bright parts, such as your forehead and cheeks. Also, images appear much MUCH darker on the s3 screen than what you see in reality. That is what samsung did to solve the issue: lowered the gamma.
Hope I gave some useful info (no pressure to hit the thanks button )
Cheers
P.S. please, those of you with good screens, post images here of your good note
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1801333
shatroghistro said:
It is DEFINITELY a software issue. Try this out: reboot your phone, and while it is still booting and slowish, quickly start the calculator and see the top of the screen perfect and then, for no apparent reason, it gets some kind of a half-circle color spill. Also, when you open the gallery, find a folder with a stock video clip with jelly fish, and when you open that folder, gallery turns to black, and for a half of second it is perfect and then gets sort of color rendering problem. Final test is to start the camera when the night falls, switch to camcorder (for the smoothness), and just look at the screen, it is perfect, no black clipping, and then, as soon as you take the picture, the picture spoils and you get the black clipping- the live image on the screen while observing is totally normal. So, it is 100% SW issue!
I compared my Note to my friend's SIII and the screen is much darker on S3, and images themselves. So, it IS gamma issue. When you open the front camera on the SIII, in a bit darker environment, and look at yourself, you barely see the shape of your head, since gamma is much lower and it only picks up the bright parts, such as your forehead and cheeks. Also, images appear much MUCH darker on the s3 screen than what you see in reality. That is what samsung did to solve the issue: lowered the gamma.
Hope I gave some useful info (no pressure to hit the thanks button )
Cheers
P.S. please, those of you with good screens, post images here of your good note
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1801333
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Click to collapse
ok, it is software. good. let's solve it !
It is not that easy..supercurio worked on it for 6 months and then left us hanging... He is not obliged, though..
We need a kernel which can access the gamma control. That is the only 'real' solution for this issue. You are right about the s3 having lower gamma and hence darker images. I've seen this myself and thats why I mentioned on my post that the Note's screen looks brighter due to the heavily cranked up gamma.
Apparently, this might be an issue with pentile amoled. Lower the gamma and lose pure whites for a clipping free darker image like on the Galaxy S or S3 or crank it up and get "richer" looking colours and whiter whites at the cost of extreme clipping in darker shadows.
This is the root of the cause. Improper gamma. Now only if someone who is experienced in developing Kernels would somehow enable gamma control which is present in the MDNIE settings but strangely disabled due to unknown reasons.
I saw that Liquid Black ROM has Gamma Control but didnt try that ROM yet. I really love the Tablet Mode in the Paranoid ROMS. So I want to stick to it while getting a solution.
I tend to agree with satish, it is then a hardware issue that could be remedied partly at cost other colours. I guess I was wrong, I use to think it was only caused by lower quality images, like watching tv on old crt, then watching same on hdtv, that also looks crap lol.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
gbb14 said:
1) Seriously guys, we have to get to the root of this problem. If we can get to the gamma setting on this display we can solve the problem. But how hard can it be to get there?
2) On the other hand, i think that what you did, was change the gamma on an LCD display. As far as I know there are a lot of diferences between LCD and OLED, appart from the fact that we have a pentile display (2 subpixels per pixel, pixels are in RGBG formation) and the LCD uses 3 subpixels per pixel (RGB).
We should join our forces and start on a mission to solve this issue once and for all.
Regards.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wasn't comparing LCD and OLED. I just wanted to prove the point that it is indeed gamma which is set higher on the Note and it is not a hardware issue. I dont know why no kernel for the Note is able to access the gamma control settings. Maybe like Entropy said, the Note's display panel might be a unique design such that any tweak applied on the display may cause unwanted results. As you all know OLEDs have certain hidden characteristics and its more or less like DNA. Every OLED panel is different. So the manufacturer tunes it into the most optimum settings possible on the particular technology used in the panel. But here, Samsung just did it wrong.
If you have noticed, many custom ROMS offer scaling down the brightness even below the default Samsung values and thats when AMOLED's hidden weaknesses start showing up.
In the end, I feel the only solution to this is a Kernel which enables the Gamma Control or somehow enabling the Gamma Control in CM9 which is currently disabled in most CM9 based ROMS.
baz77 said:
I tend to agree with satish, it is then a hardware issue that could be remedied partly at cost other colours. I guess I was wrong, I use to think it was only caused by lower quality images, like watching tv on old crt, then watching same on hdtv, that also looks crap lol.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
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Not exactly a hardware "issue" but maybe more like a hardware "limitation" of "Pentile" AMOLED. Samsung has hidden this issue in the Original Galaxy S and in the Galaxy S3 by lowering the gamma which results in darker images but "NO" or "Invisible" clipping hence satisfying consumers. Due to the lower Gamma on those phones, darker shadows seem to blend into eachother hence we dont see any clipping as darks are "Dark". And hence, when consumers dont "see" any artefacts, banding or clipping on their videos and images, they are satisfied. But this is at the cost of "dull" whites or artificial whites and lower overall perceived brightness.
As the Note has its Gamma cranked up, White looks white. I may even go forward and say that the Note produces the best whites ever seen on any AMOLED panel. Hence web browsing looks richer, colours look richer and the overall perceived brightness is again higher than other devices, But this again comes at the cost of clipping in darker shadows and hence poor looking videos and images, blocky pixellation,etc
So in the end, everyone is ready to sacrifice their "whites" for a clipping free display. Thats how it works out for consumers. As long as they dont "see" the problem, they believe its not there. So this may be a limitation of "Pentile" AMOLED and lowering the gamma may be Samsung's way of hiding the weakness.
The Galaxy S2 has an overall best screen which I've seen and thats due to the RGB AMOLED Technology. Colours look richer, the percieved brightness is higher and no clipping either. Thereby best of both worlds.
gamma
1) I saw some minor fixes on this thread http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1715416 but nothing really gets deep down to the problem. Those fixes are actually some kind of effects, they aren't so good. They talk there about some kernels that helps the black clipping issue.
2)I have found an apk that is called voodoo display filter, can you check it out? it does seem to enhance the black.
3)As i was playing around with the screen settings on cm9, i noticed that if i set the screen scenario to VT, the mode to MOVIE, and the outdoor mode to ON, i can see down to number 4 on the gamma test image (usually with the default settings i can see everything down to 1).
regards
gbb14 said:
1) I saw some minor fixes on this thread http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1715416 but nothing really gets deep down to the problem. Those fixes are actually some kind of effects, they aren't so good. They talk there about some kernels that helps the black clipping issue.
2)I have found an apk that is called voodoo display filter, can you check it out? it does seem to enhance the black.
3)As i was playing around with the screen settings on cm9, i noticed that if i set the screen scenario to VT, the mode to MOVIE, and the outdoor mode to ON, i can see down to number 4 on the gamma test image (usually with the default settings i can see everything down to 1).
regards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are talking about the screen adjuster app which in my opinion is neither a fix nor a workaround for the problem. It destroys the blacks and uses the screen out of specification.
I have searched everywhere but couldnt find the apk for vodoo screen tuning. So, couldnt try that.
Anyways, this issue cannot be resolved with an app but only a kernel which supports gamma control.
You can find the app on bazaar android, i think it was made by super mario super curio, or something who used to work on this issue, and had a thread of over 50 pages, until he decided to quit the work because of flamers and stupid people.
I've had some ideas:
Can the devs add some new settings under cm9>settings>advanced>screen>mode ? ooooor instead of bumping the gamma on outdoor mode, to lower it?
regards
Op please change thread title, as it is hardware.
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Anyone else notice this? I took some pictures comparing my iPad Mini (left) vs Nexus 7 2013 (right). The first attachment is from YouTube F4bnVZmdOKs @ 5:31 - notice the splotchiness in the darkest areas. The second is from G-R8LGy-OVs @ 3:56 - notice the halos around the stars. When I watch on my computer (HP LP2065 IPS LCD) it looks much more like the iPad's display.
Looks like video compression blockiness that you don't see on the iPad because of the horrible black levels. If you look at a black still picture do you see the splotches?
Dimethyl said:
Anyone else notice this? I took some pictures comparing my iPad Mini (left) vs Nexus 7 2013 (right). The first attachment is from YouTube F4bnVZmdOKs @ 5:31 - notice the splotchiness in the darkest areas. The second is from G-R8LGy-OVs @ 3:56 - notice the halos around the stars. When I watch on my computer (HP LP2065 IPS LCD) it looks much more like the iPad's display.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with the above poster, the splotchiness is video compression artifacts, and if you look past them, and take a step back, you'll actually see that you're getting much more detail and a better gamma on the N7 vs. the iPad. On the iPad side, the woman is completely black, yet on the N7, you can see her face and clothing detail that are simply missing on the iPad.
I would guess that the halos around the stars are similarly missing information on the iPad. With the N7, you're getting the whole picture.
That ipad mini picture is terrible. Talk about crushing blacks. ..... Look at the detail in the nexus picture. I hope your TV is not calibrated like the mini.
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I think its due to the high DPI. Try any HD video.
Actually the iPad Mini is quite terrible with the loss of dark details.
oh god that ipad looks awful dude.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
there's probably a video player out there that supports gamma adjustment if it's not to your liking.in a specific video. it's hard to tell from that picture how black crushing the ipad is but some would find it looks "better" when the video is of poor quality. one thing you might want to do is adjust the backlight first (no need to do it global if you've got something like mx player) as the new N7 is supposed to be very bright. in the old n7 you can get away with making mx player always use max brightness because the maximum brightness isn't very high.
Good points. I attached a comparison of the black level test from Lagom. On the Nexus 7 I can see the 1 square easily. On the iPad Mini I can see the 5 square fairly well and the 4 just barely (IRL; hard to tell from the picture). The brightness setting for this and the previous comparisons was 25% on the Nexus 7 and around 55-60% on the iPad Mini. The subjective brightness was similar.
I borrowed an iPad 3 (Retina) to do some more testing. This time to eliminate any variables with video streaming I downloaded the 720P MP4s on my computer and captured stills with VLC. I used Chrome on both Android and iOS to view the images. Same videos as before, roughly the same scenes. The first 2 attachments show the comparisons: iPad 3 on the top, and Nexus 7 2013 on the bottom.
The 3rd attachment is the black level test on the iPad 3. I can clearly see square 2 and if I stare enough I can faintly detect square 1 (IRL; hard to tell from the picture again). The 4th attachment is a comparison of a full white image to show that the brightness is matched fairly closely (easier to tell if you convert to greyscale to ignore white balance differences) - 25% on the Nexus and just a hair above 50% on the iPad.
The 5th and 6th attachments are the source images I used for testing. I converted from PNG to JPG to make the attachments fit, not that it matters much since it's from a lossy source.
I still get the feeling that something isn't right about the way the Nexus looks. I was able to simulate the effect almost identically by applying gamma correction of 1.6 in IrfanView. That would seem to indicate that the Nexus's gamma may be way off, but after I finally found a way to view Lagom's gamma test image without scaling on the Nexus it looked pretty much spot-on correct. It it possible that only the very dark areas are "shifted" in a way that wouldn't affect the gamma test image?
This leads to the last attachment - a new black level test on the Nexus. Again, the brightness was calibrated similarly to the iPad, and the camera was set on full manual mode with all the same settings, so you can directly compare it to the iPad black level test image. Notice how the squares get brighter way faster than on the iPad? It's a lot more pronounced in the darkest squares, but the difference shrinks by the time you get up to the 40 square (last one before full white).
For my final test, I took pictures of Lagom's contrast test image on the Nexus 7 2013 and iPad 3. I then applied a Gaussian blur, converted to greyscale, and determined the RGB value for the first 13 bars. The first attachment is a chart of the results. The brightnesses converge around the 10th bar (RGB = 79 in the source image), but before that the Nexus's brightness is inflated. This explains why the gamma test looked fine, because even in the 10% luminance test, the RGB value of the ideal point is 88. The 2nd and 3rd attachments are the Nexus and iPad (respectively) displaying the test image.
you should bring all this to the "yellow tint" thread. this is a nice showcase on what's wrong with Nexus screen.
I recently purchased an X-Rite i1Display Pro display calibrator. I used it to make really accurate luminance measurements* of the Nexus 7 (2013) and iPad Mini while displaying shades of gray from 0 to 255 in steps of 5. I then calculated the effective gamma** at each step to create the attached chart. It also includes the effective gamma of the reverse sRGB transformation.
My conclusion is that the Nexus is fine if sRGB is the ideal target. I'm not sure what the ideal target is though; in fact, I don't really think there is one. A display gamma calibration of 2.2 to 2.4 seems like the most common recommendation. But almost everyone ignores the fact that sRGB's effective gamma is a lot lower in darker areas. I get the feeling that most people calibrate to a fixed target. sRGB is probably more technically correct. But if fixed 2.2 to 2.4 is more common, does that make it a de facto standard? E.g. if professional movie studios edit their movies on monitors calibrated to fixed gamma, but I watch it with sRGB gamma, doesn't that mean I'm not viewing it as intended by the creator? I'm not saying this is necessarily the case. I'm really, really confused .
So anyway, I just wanted to share my results. You will have to draw your own conclusions.
* I used spotread.exe from Argyll with the -x swtich. The first number from the "Yxy" result is luminance in cd/m^2.
** Effective gamma meaning: the gamma value you'd have to use to get the same luminance value from the input value. Formula is log(luminance) / log(input), where luminance and input are percentages from 0 to 1. I adjusted the luminances to account for non-perfect black levels.
mannequin said:
you should bring all this to the "yellow tint" thread. this is a nice showcase on what's wrong with Nexus screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would say the iPad is just warmer (red) and the N7 looks more cooler (greenish-blue) Not by much though, just a few degrees off. No one device is perfect.
With the dark areas, it seems the brightness and/or gamma is too high. I use my screen at half brightness which seems on par with other devices and haven't noticed a big difference.
Hopefully we get a screen calibrator like on the N4 and can make adjust individual adjustments.
Sent from Nexus 7 FHD from XDA Premium HD
Dimethyl said:
My conclusion is that the Nexus is fine if sRGB is the ideal target...
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Click to collapse
all the measurements that you did are only true to the device that you own. the screens in the wild would differ (sometimes drastically) from yours and from one another.
I totally agree with you. I also see lots of artifacts with any dark scene on my 2013 Nexus 7. It doesn't matter if I am playing a higher resolution (HD) scene or lower resolution one. I wish there was a way to fix that.
Dimethyl said:
I recently purchased an X-Rite i1Display Pro display calibrator. I used it to make really accurate luminance measurements* of the Nexus 7 (2013) and iPad Mini while displaying shades of gray from 0 to 255 in steps of 5. I then calculated the effective gamma** at each step to create the attached chart. It also includes the effective gamma of the reverse sRGB transformation.
My conclusion is that the Nexus is fine if sRGB is the ideal target. I'm not sure what the ideal target is though; in fact, I don't really think there is one. A display gamma calibration of 2.2 to 2.4 seems like the most common recommendation. But almost everyone ignores the fact that sRGB's effective gamma is a lot lower in darker areas. I get the feeling that most people calibrate to a fixed target. sRGB is probably more technically correct. But if fixed 2.2 to 2.4 is more common, does that make it a de facto standard? E.g. if professional movie studios edit their movies on monitors calibrated to fixed gamma, but I watch it with sRGB gamma, doesn't that mean I'm not viewing it as intended by the creator? I'm not saying this is necessarily the case. I'm really, really confused .
So anyway, I just wanted to share my results. You will have to draw your own conclusions.
* I used spotread.exe from Argyll with the -x swtich. The first number from the "Yxy" result is luminance in cd/m^2.
** Effective gamma meaning: the gamma value you'd have to use to get the same luminance value from the input value. Formula is log(luminance) / log(input), where luminance and input are percentages from 0 to 1. I adjusted the luminances to account for non-perfect black levels.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow....I just look at my screen. It looks nice.
Not sure WTF all that shizz you posted is about. 250 device = 250 device. /shrug
Mine's right about fine xD .
The LG V60 ThinQ has a crazy crisp display. Just kidding, this is automated text so who knows if this screen is any good. So, you be the judge! A higher rating indicates that it's extremely sharp and clear, and that you cannot see pixels with your naked eye.
Then, drop a comment if you have anything to add!
Very clear. The resolution is lower than my V30, I think, but it's not noticeable to me.
I honestly don't notice the lower resolution and because of that always had my previous phones set to 1080p to save battery.
Auto brightness has been a problem though, in low light the screen throttles back to 1% far too aggressively and 1% is too dim even in a pitch black room.
Sent from my LM-V600 using Tapatalk
The larger screen size and lower resolution combine for a noticeably lower DPI count, but I happen to think that higher (than 1080p) resolutions on (relatively) smaller phone displays are mostly a waste of battery life.
YMMV, but in my experience, there comes a point where the human eye can only resolve so much and the bump in the resolution of small screen displays just becomes overkill. I'll take battery life over resolution and even refresh rate any day, though I imagine higher resolution displays with higher refresh rates will only become more efficient over time, and I'll likely change my tune eventually.
I went from the V30+ to the V60 at the beginning of this month, and I feel like the new phone is a substantial upgrade over the older one in just about all categories that matter. And that's even considering that the former was rooted and the latter can't be!
The display is crisp enough, though clearly not cutting edge. Colors look at least as good as those of the V30. Viewing angles are fantastic without any noticeable (to me) color shift. It's probably the best we could have expected knowing that the display is relatively modest compared to this phone's 20202 (and some 2019) peers. And if you're fine with that, this shouldn't stop you from considering the phone. If, however, you DO want higher resolutions and higher refresh rates, you already know this phone's not for you and that you've got multiple options.
Mejilan said:
Viewing angles are fantastic without any noticeable (to me) color shift.
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I'm seeing very drastic color shift when viewing at about 45°, more noticeable on white screens. It's a greenish yellowish shift.
Otherwise I agree with the rest of your post. 1080p is plenty resolution and I'm fine with 60Hz refresh.
Mr_Mooncatt said:
I'm seeing very drastic color shift when viewing at about 45°, more noticeable on white screens. It's a greenish yellowish shift.
Otherwise I agree with the rest of your post. 1080p is plenty resolution and I'm fine with 60Hz refresh.
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Click to collapse
Are there display variances across production runs, or something? Because I can't seem to reproduce this fault.
I'm not TERRIBLY sensitive to such things, but from what you say, it sounds like it should be blatantly obvious to the eyes.
And I don't suffer from any kind of color blindness that could possibly impact me.
Mejilan said:
Are there display variances across production runs, or something? Because I can't seem to reproduce this fault.
I'm not TERRIBLY sensitive to such things, but from what you say, it sounds like it should be blatantly obvious to the eyes.
And I don't suffer from any kind of color blindness that could possibly impact me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haven't seen anyone else complain of this, so not site if it's an issue with mine specifically or what. Here's a short video I made that hopefully demonstrates the color shift.
https://youtu.be/naGHasaIjp0
Mr_Mooncatt said:
I haven't seen anyone else complain of this, so not site if it's an issue with mine specifically or what. Here's a short video I made that hopefully demonstrates the color shift.
https://youtu.be/naGHasaIjp0
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Huh. How did you get a plain white background to show up like that? (I suppose I can Google one up).
I'd like to test my phone out and see if I can get similar results.
It's a little hard to see in a YT video, but I definitely noticed SOME shift on your screen that I don't think I've ever seen on mine.
I imagine the effect is even more noticeable in real life, with the phone right in front of you.
Mejilan said:
Huh. How did you get a plain white background to show up like that? (I suppose I can Google one up).
I'd like to test my phone out and see if I can get similar results.
It's a little hard to see in a YT video, but I definitely noticed SOME shift on your screen that I don't think I've ever seen on mine.
I imagine the effect is even more noticeable in real life, with the phone right in front of you.
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Click to collapse
I use this app.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.iudesk.android.photo.editor
It's a photo editing app, but you can start a new image from scratch and select a background color. I set it to pure white, then zoomed in on it to fill the screen. It's definitely easier to see in person. I tried using by wife's Note 9 for the video, but I couldn't select a better refresh rate on it to prevent the banding.
Mr_Mooncatt said:
I use this app.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.iudesk.android.photo.editor
It's a photo editing app, but you can start a new image from scratch and select a background color. I set it to pure white, then zoomed in on it to fill the screen. It's definitely easier to see in person. I tried using by wife's Note 9 for the video, but I couldn't select a better refresh rate on it to prevent the banding.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tried it out, and while I did notice a dimming or darkening of the white background at extreme tilts, I figure that's normal.
Doesn't quite look like what your YT video shows, but I'm not sure if that's down to the difference between watching a YT video of something and watching it yourself directly.
I've had the V30 and now this and I'm as happy with the screen on this one as I was with the V30. I couldn't care about the refresh rate. It's not like I'm watching a 60" screen. Overall it's a very good screen.
Mr_Mooncatt said:
I'm seeing very drastic color shift when viewing at about 45°, more noticeable on white screens. It's a greenish yellowish shift.
Otherwise I agree with the rest of your post. 1080p is plenty resolution and I'm fine with 60Hz refresh.
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Click to collapse
I pissed that it's 1080P, however, people who say a 90+ refresh rate is noticeable is just experiencing placebo.
The human eye will never notice that.
Sent from my LG-H932 using XDA Labs
BROKEN1981 said:
I pissed that it's 1080P, however, people who say a 90+ refresh rate is noticeable is just experiencing placebo.
The human eye will never notice that.
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Click to collapse
I've had higher resolution screens, and I can tell no difference between them and 1080p. Even 720p is hard to notice a difference.
When it comes to refresh rates, most people see a noticeable difference between 60Hz and 90Hz. My last phone was selectable between those two and 120Hz, and I couldn't tell a difference between 90Hz and 120Hz.
I can see the difference in resolution between the V30 and V60, it's just that 1080p on a phone doesn't bother me.
It falls in my "good enough" range. These aren't 55+ inch television displays, after all.
I also can definitely see the difference between a 60 Hz refresh rate vs a 90 Hz or 120 Hz refresh display.
my problem is with notifications in the top pull down... its virtually useless in landscape mode...