Related
Hi all
A quick question please. I hope nobody minds me posting his here as a new thread. Aplogies if so.
I read somewhere yesterday that custom ROM's are only a "grey area" as opposed to automatically and immediately invalidating your warranty. Is this corrrect please? I must admit I have always conisidered being forced what ROM to run is a bit like telling me I cannot change my PC's OS from Windows to Linux. At the end oif the day it is my hardware and I can put what I like on it in terms of software is, my view. I really take exception when HTC support tell me and have done more than once, I should install no 3rd party apps. on my phone. A PC with no software now, either!?
Many thanks in adavnce.
As far as I can guess...
Well, you're kinda right about it being a "grey" area. Reason being, as far as I can figure, is because HTC needs to cover their bases. Their devices can really only be insured to work according to the specifications they were designed to work. Ever heard of a flasher bricking their phone? Well, it wouldn't have happened if said person didn't flash their phone. These devices are tried and tested at the company's factories, to run well under very specific conditions. When we go flashing other roms onto them, it begins taking the hardware out of those safe confines of operation.
If you've ever read about what to do with a phone you need to return, it always states that you should return the phone to it's original SPL, and that if the spl is hacked, the company won't take it back. Most likely because if they took back a functional phone (with a hacked SPL) it would work against them if another device with a hacked SPL had to be returned on account of hardware problems.
If the hardware faults while running the intended rom, the blame is easy to place, and hard to dispute. If the device faults while running modified software (rom) it becomes harder to place who's fault it is. Sure, the phone SHOULD technically run the other rom and SPL, but then again, if something goes wrong you're certainly going to be trying everything in your power to get a new one for free. And unfortunately for HTC, that means they take the brunt for a failure that otherwise wouldn't have happened were you not modding your phone.
Grey area? Yep. One of those things, if you get caught, you're guilty. Then again, the amount of phones that need to be returned on account of modding, seem relatively low compared to the amount of devices which are regularly and successfully modded.
-Caid.
444
It's not that big a deal. If there's a hardware fault - just flash everything back to the stock spl and rom before you send it back and HTC will honour the warranty. If you brick it through flashing that's your problem though although it's basically unheard of.
How to re-flash if the phone won't boot
How I re-flash if won't boot up?
You can always start it in Loader mode (power and volume up (or down, never remember) button and reset the phone, it will launch in loader mode) while having the image in the root of your Flash card. It should flash the rom from there.
[PROBLEM SOLVED]
Ive been flashing back and forth to different builds trying which is better. I made sure I took the cautions not to flash builds that would brick my phone. There were 4 times that I soft bricked my phone but I was able to revive it. However, my little game has come to an end with this last one. The fault was this guide: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=817186.
Little did I know, by doing a repartition and not loading anything to the NAND resulted in the bootloader not being installed. (Devices like this should have a ROM programmed to recover from these errors, think Gigabyte) Upon reset, the phone went out and didn't turn back on. ODIN reports success. Now the phone cannot turn back on, no matter what battery pull method I use, I get nothing on the screen. So much for fail-safe protocols Samsung has implemented, if there are even any. Poorly engineered!
EDIT:Thanks for all your suggestions guys. So yes this phone was definitely bricked beyond any software repair. I was going to JTAG it but I figured there MUST to be some hardware bootloader implemented. I went ahead and did the USB JIG and surprise, it booted from the hardware bootloader. I used ODIN to flash JFD and it works now. So my guess is samsung did implement a fail safe, which is the USB trick and forces the phone to boot from hardware. If that is true, this phone is brick proof, provided that all electronics still work.
EDIT 2: I am wrong about the bootloader being hardware. Some say it is flashable, so it is possible you can get a real TRUE brick and must need JTAG to revive it. Fortunately for me, I was able to use the USB JIG method to get it back up and running. Too bad, a new phone would've been nice.
Not poorly engineered, just poorly made user input.
Yes true, but samsung should have taken into account accidents like this will happen then they dont have control over who administers their update. People have bricked their phones by doing the factory update. When I design systems like these, I always make sure there is a fail safe backup that the user cannot modify. I am sure samsung has one and maybe they just dont let us access it.
I sometimes encounter the same error message but I never repartition. Luckily, i never clicked on it in Odin.
But you have to realize that most of those bricks are because people modified their phones from factory (ie. Voodoo and OCLF). Odin, a program used by internal Samsung engineers, was never meant for the public and shouldn't be used unless you know how to use it.
I agree, there should be an absolute fail safe if worse comes to worse, but the point I am making here is Samsung isn't wrong in this case.
When you violate warranties and experiment you tacitly accept responsibility for your actions. To not do so is not an act of rebellious ire...it is an act of denial.
Manufacturers do not, nor can not prepare for all scenarios because the possible number of scenario's to cover are legion. I don't see it as realistic especially for them to prepare for brick scenario's created by using a leaked internal engineering tool that the community has figured out largely through trial and error either. OTA and Mini Kies bricks they are responsible for, for obvious reasons, and Samsung and T-Mobile have taken responsibility for these scenarios because they are ones of their making.
XDA is not a place where people file warranty complaints (though some do complain). It is a place where people experiment, hack, and customize smartphones. Though some manufacturers do a better job than others at getting out of our way here (Samsung hasn't done so bad here relative to say Motorola), I don't think any of them particularly "care" about such community efforts in any meaningful sense. And why should they?
By modifying our devices aren't we quite clearly saying we're taking matters into our own hands? You have to balance your strong desire to tinker with the reality of where responsibilities lie.
These phones are some of the most difficult Android phones to brick. Anecdotally and statistically shown to be. Not impossible of course, but quite difficult. I feel for your bad experience but at least consider shouldering some of the blame.
Thank god i am too scared to use odin. The deepest i go is clockwork recovery, but good luck with your paperweight.
Too bad the SGS is so light, it wouldnt make a good paperweight, or even a brick.
but seriously, the warranty is there to protect users which this happens to, assuming it wasnt voided by hacking the phone. Are you asking samsung to take into account that you would hack the phone and provide a way back after you have a bad hack and probably make themselves liable by providing that way back in case it does not work properly?
I want to be clear that I am not blaming samsung for this but I thought samsung could have done a better job. Ill admit, this phone was the first phone that impressed me in years and as an engineer, I am hardly ever impressed; other engineers will get my point. I wish they had some soft of fail safe mechanism. For us who like to tweak things, I get we get what we deserve. But what about those who dont like to tweak and still brick their phones? i.e. those who use Kies Mini and still brick. I still have warranty on the phone and I'll try to take it up with Tmobile, hope they don know much about flashing. BTW, I tried using the other program but no go. All the drivers were installed, rebooted computer...nothing. I think it is because I have W7 64 and not 32?
Have you tried the jig method of getting into dl mode?
engineer14 said:
Thank god i am too scared to use odin. The deepest i go is clockwork recovery, but good luck with your paperweight.
Too bad the SGS is so light, it wouldnt make a good paperweight, or even a brick.
but seriously, the warranty is there to protect users which this happens to, assuming it wasnt voided by hacking the phone. Are you asking samsung to take into account that you would hack the phone and provide a way back after you have a bad hack and probably make themselves liable by providing that way back in case it does not work properly?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Keep on flashing, and eventually Odin will probably save your butt
Don't be scared of it, it works great. And it is safe to use.
========================================
I'm really sorry about your phone man, I didn't know that you had to NAND before re-partition, thank god I've never checked that but I might have in the future had you not shared this with us, so thanks a lot!
I guess your loss is everyone elses gain
No I havent tried the Jig method. The thread says that I need to have at least the samsung screen, so some kind of activity. This phone is just off, nothing comes on, no buttons, no screen...just dead. I think when I followed that guide, it told be to repartition and then reboot with the "PDA" field empty. So the phone rebooted when it finished formatting without installing anything. Now the NAND is at a "blank" state and I do not have any bootloader on there. Anyone know of a method to install a bootloader without the phone turning on?
I might be a little too far out of my element here but I think I found a guide to remove the sdcard and format it via pc one time when I was in a similar situation. I am at work currently and I also cannot remember if I have the link saved.
Maybe some phone expert in your city may help you to install the bootlaoder. I think it's called jtagging, I'm not sure though.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
trdexalbee said:
I want to be clear that I am not blaming samsung for this but I thought samsung could have done a better job. Ill admit, this phone was the first phone that impressed me in years and as an engineer, I am hardly ever impressed; other engineers will get my point. I wish they had some soft of fail safe mechanism. For us who like to tweak things, I get we get what we deserve. But what about those who dont like to tweak and still brick their phones? i.e. those who use Kies Mini and still brick. I still have warranty on the phone and I'll try to take it up with Tmobile, hope they don know much about flashing. BTW, I tried using the other program but no go. All the drivers were installed, rebooted computer...nothing. I think it is because I have W7 64 and not 32?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just call Tmobile and tell then that you were upgrading to froyo 2.2 using Kies mini and it froze...
I had a black screen once. I was flashing in odin and knocked the cable loose. I think I had to remove the battery, open odin, plug the usb cable in, then install the battery and possibly hold a key down on the phone. I believe the download screen then came up. Otherwise the phone would not respond nor would any lights come on
trdexalbee said:
I want to be clear that I am not blaming samsung for this but I thought samsung could have done a better job. Ill admit, this phone was the first phone that impressed me in years and as an engineer, I am hardly ever impressed; other engineers will get my point. I wish they had some soft of fail safe mechanism. For us who like to tweak things, I get we get what we deserve. But what about those who dont like to tweak and still brick their phones? i.e. those who use Kies Mini and still brick. I still have warranty on the phone and I'll try to take it up with Tmobile, hope they don know much about flashing. BTW, I tried using the other program but no go. All the drivers were installed, rebooted computer...nothing. I think it is because I have W7 64 and not 32?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Depending on which drivers you installed (and there seem to be quite a few floating around) you might need to disable Driver Signature Checking in 64bit Windows OS's if the drivers are not signed. The easiest way I've found to do this is with EasyBCD . Install it, run it, click Advanced Options and enable loading of unsigned drivers. Do this before loading a potentially unsigned driver and you're good to go.
Just a tip, and my lengthy diatribe on responsibility was more to stem the potential tide of trolling such a thread is likely to generate than dump on you. I know what it's like to brick things. I've been bricking stuff for 30 years lol.
masterotaku said:
Depending on which drivers you installed (and there seem to be quite a few floating around) you might need to disable Driver Signature Checking in 64bit Windows OS's if the drivers are not signed. The easiest way I've found to do this is with EasyBCD . Install it, run it, click Advanced Options and enable loading of unsigned drivers. Do this before loading a potentially unsigned driver and you're good to go.
Just a tip, and my lengthy diatribe on responsibility was more to stem the potential tide of trolling such a thread is likely to generate than dump on you. I know what it's like to brick things. I've been bricking stuff for 30 years lol.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To disable driver signing, you ONLY need to run a single command and then reboot. And this applies to both Windows 7 and Vista.
Also to the OP.
You say you have no bootloader, but can't find ANYWHERE in this thread that says you were attempting to flash a bootloader. In fact, you can **** up partitioning, and your bootloader is still in tact. Been there, done that.
Do this. Plug the phone in, and leave it charging for about 30 minutes. Pull the phone off, hold the volume buttons, and plug the phone into a computer. See what happens. I had a ****ty situation end up happening to me, that I couldn't get the phone on for about 30 minutes. I had already even called T-Mobile for a replacement.
Thanks for all your suggestions guys. So yes this phone was definitely bricked beyond any software repair. I was going to JTAG it but I figured there MUST to be some hardware bootloader implemented. I went ahead and did the USB JIG and surprise, it booted from the hardware bootloader. I used ODIN to flash JFD and it works now. So my guess is samsung did implement a fail safe, which is the USB trick and forces the phone to boot from hardware. If that is true, this phone is brick proof, provided that all electronics still work.
trdexalbee said:
Thanks for all your suggestions guys. So yes this phone was definitely bricked beyond any software repair. I was going to JTAG it but I figured there MUST to be some hardware bootloader implemented. I went ahead and did the USB JIG and surprise, it booted from the hardware bootloader. I used ODIN to flash JFD and it works now. So my guess is samsung did implement a fail safe, which is the USB trick and forces the phone to boot from hardware. If that is true, this phone is brick proof, provided that all electronics still work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This "hardware" bootloader as you are calling it, is the exact bootloader that you can flash and TRULY brick your device. It is NOT a failsafe in the way in which you are referring. Please, please don't call it this. There are plenty of users on this forum that are clueless. The jig method, is a hardware jump point that Samsung has built in to allow you to get to download mode situations where the button method does not work.
As I mentioned earlier, you didn't flash a bootloader. Nor did you full on brick your device. Glad your device is back to normal now though.
my apologies then, it would be easier if samsung gave us the schematics, but that would never happen. So when we use odin to flash, we are not flashing the bootloader as well? Is the bootloader located on another ROM that is not easily accessible? I guess ROM would be the incorrect term since you stated you can "flash" the bootloader.
Stumbled upon this a bit ago, a company called Mobile Tech is offering an "unbricking" service on all versions of the Galaxy Tab. At the time of this writing they charge $50. I have not used this service, am not in any affiliated with this company and cannot vouch for their work, so beware. Just thought someone out there might use this when other options aren't available.
They have a nifty video up on youtube showing how they do it:
it will be a good help for those who brick their tab because they ain't follow the steps .. thanks for sharing this out
I can actually vouch third party for this service. Have had two friends use it and the device was returned within a few days. If I'm not mistaken, the guy lives in the southern US, but can arrange international he says.
Sent from my "better than an iPad" tab... Running Overcome GINGERBREAD!!!
This is cool, but I would recommend trying to go through Samsung first if you are still under warranty. I screwed up my primary bootloader and contacted them. They took care of shipping costs, fixed it up, and sent it back in about a week and a half. If Samsung hadn't fixed it I would defiantly have payed the $50 here though.
WOW, that seems like a lot of work for $50.
Thanks for the info, should I ever screw something up its nice to know there are people out there who can clean up my mess!
spacemoose1 said:
a company called Mobile Tech is offering an "unbricking" service on all versions of the Galaxy Tab.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi spacemoose1
Thanks for link and as always, thanks for honeycomb port. I would like to ascertain the definition of BRICK? with your help, if I may.
(disclaimer: pls forgive my wrong terms or exagerated explanation, but most importantly, pls correct me if I'm wrong)
BRICKed = software total lost, must use JTAG to force revive it, Samsung has it, or buy from web supplier around 300 USD ??? 500 USD ???
JTAG is a device to push software into all newly borned IC. I.E. when factory make IC, it's empty software inside, hence has a special device to push voltage into all sections of the IC, then force the code in.
Another term is ???CRASH??? or ???HANG???, (I don't know) anyway is not BRICKed, hence a reflash can recover it.
Samsung uses proprietary method a lot, not follow conventional, make usb driver very complex. USB driver install EXE around 15MB to 28MB depends on version, ALL work the same.
but, when the device = sgt7 in different state/condition, the driver must RE-ESTABLISH again, or else cannot work.
I.E.
state 1 = "OPERATIONAL"device in android operation, normal use, surf web, phone call etc
state 2 = "SLEEP" device powered off, show battery big icon charging when powered by charger
state 3 = RECOVERY mode
state 4 = DOWNLOAD mode - this is one of the way to FORCE flash to recover, as long as bootloader and something still intact
state 5 = PHONE-!-PC mode
stage 6 = "COMA" device powered off, NO show of battery big icon, even when charger supplied. Don't panic, let it charge fully 4 hours from 2 amperes supply, 10 hours from PC 500mA. It will start again !!!. Battery big icon will appear around 30% battery charged, I know because that's what I saw. I didn't check when it's in 10% or 20%. The 1st time I check was already 30% up from no-boot or no respone.
User need to plug device into PC during each of the state above at least once, in order for various flashing functions to work.
i.e. when it's a newly arrived device, usually install the usb driver 1st, with device state in android OS running properly, then plug in to USB and see "new device detected" installing, pls wait. Finished.
But when flashing via Odin using state 4 = DOWNLOAD mode, user may experience no connection, no COM3 or something. Because device must be unplugged in USB, power-up in state 4 = DOWNLOAD mode, plug in USB, "new device detected" installing = RE-ESTABLISH, done. UNPLUG USB, replug in usb, then COM3 appears FLASH will be succesfull.
same goes for other state.
p.s. many users reported BRICKed but then recovered WITHOUT JTAG is misleading beginners, hence should rename the term to ???CRASH??? or ???HANG???. although some previously use "SEMI-brick", which is acceptable.
stage 3 = ClockWorkMod flashing (super convenient, especially on the move without PC)
stage 4 = Odin / Heimdall both works (still convenient and easy )
stage 5 = Odin / Heimdall both works (still convenient and easy )
???CRASH??? or ???HANG??? or "SEMI-brick" is usually SUCCESFULLY recovered via restock+PIT
(final disclaimer, incase above is correct and help and is copied, pls correct whatever mistakes found, feel free.)
*** Thanks for all those who taught me my mistakes *** devs and fellow forumers
ManticoreX said:
This is cool, but I would recommend trying to go through Samsung first if you are still under warranty. I screwed up my primary bootloader and contacted them. They took care of shipping costs, fixed it up, and sent it back in about a week and a half. If Samsung hadn't fixed it I would defiantly have payed the $50 here though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, warranty repair is always a better choice. But sometimes you've already voided the warranty, lol.
I guess, if u change factory installed rom/kernel warranty gonna be history
thanx for the post ... it might gonna be the last resort...
cx5 said:
Hi spacemoose1
Thanks for link and as always, thanks for honeycomb port. I would like to ascertain the definition of BRICK? with your help, if I may.
(disclaimer: pls forgive my wrong terms or exagerated explanation, but most importantly, pls correct me if I'm wrong)
BRICKed = software total lost, must use JTAG to force revive it, Samsung has it, or buy from web supplier around 300 USD ??? 500 USD ???
JTAG is a device to push software into all newly borned IC. I.E. when factory make IC, it's empty software inside, hence has a special device to push voltage into all sections of the IC, then force the code in.
Another term is ???CRASH??? or ???HANG???, (I don't know) anyway is not BRICKed, hence a reflash can recover it.
Samsung uses proprietary method a lot, not follow conventional, make usb driver very complex. USB driver install EXE around 15MB to 28MB depends on version, ALL work the same.
but, when the device = sgt7 in different state/condition, the driver must RE-ESTABLISH again, or else cannot work.
I.E.
state 1 = "OPERATIONAL"device in android operation, normal use, surf web, phone call etc
state 2 = "SLEEP" device powered off, show battery big icon charging when powered by charger
state 3 = RECOVERY mode
state 4 = DOWNLOAD mode - this is one of the way to FORCE flash to recover, as long as bootloader and something still intact
state 5 = PHONE-!-PC mode
stage 6 = "COMA" device powered off, NO show of battery big icon, even when charger supplied. Don't panic, let it charge fully 4 hours from 2 amperes supply, 10 hours from PC 500mA. It will start again !!!. Battery big icon will appear around 30% battery charged, I know because that's what I saw. I didn't check when it's in 10% or 20%. The 1st time I check was already 30% up from no-boot or no respone.
User need to plug device into PC during each of the state above at least once, in order for various flashing functions to work.
i.e. when it's a newly arrived device, usually install the usb driver 1st, with device state in android OS running properly, then plug in to USB and see "new device detected" installing, pls wait. Finished.
But when flashing via Odin using state 4 = DOWNLOAD mode, user may experience no connection, no COM3 or something. Because device must be unplugged in USB, power-up in state 4 = DOWNLOAD mode, plug in USB, "new device detected" installing = RE-ESTABLISH, done. UNPLUG USB, replug in usb, then COM3 appears FLASH will be succesfull.
same goes for other state.
p.s. many users reported BRICKed but then recovered WITHOUT JTAG is misleading beginners, hence should rename the term to ???CRASH??? or ???HANG???. although some previously use "SEMI-brick", which is acceptable.
stage 3 = ClockWorkMod flashing (super convenient, especially on the move without PC)
stage 4 = Odin / Heimdall both works (still convenient and easy )
stage 5 = Odin / Heimdall both works (still convenient and easy )
???CRASH??? or ???HANG??? or "SEMI-brick" is usually SUCCESFULLY recovered via restock+PIT
(final disclaimer, incase above is correct and help and is copied, pls correct whatever mistakes found, feel free.)
*** Thanks for all those who taught me my mistakes *** devs and fellow forumers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I pretty much agree, but I might refine:
BRICK= Unit does not power up, visibly charge, reach a boot-screen of any kind including a service or "download" screen. A device in this state requires service from the manufacturer or an individual equipped with the proper tools. There is no other way to recover a device in this state.
SOFT-BRICK= Unit powers up, reaches a "download" or service screen, visibly charges but does not boot into an OS. Crashing, hanging etc. all apply here. It is easy to recover a device from this state so long as one has access to a firmware that was designed for the device and the ability to flash said firmware.
SEMI-BRICK= See soft-brick above
JTAG= Provides access to system hardware by applying the correct voltage to the correct pins in order to push software via an external program.
In regards to the usb drivers, there are only actually 4 states
1. Active userspace
2. Serial gadget mode
3. Recovery
4. USB storage mode
And there is a separate driver for each of these (except recovery) in the Samsung driver package that should install automatically when the device is plugged in during normal use on a stock rom, or with the installation package available on the web.
The rest of it you've got pretty much correct.
Money seems right, but the amount of work that guy has to go thru is amazing, so much to tare it apart, and reassemble. Then again when it is put back toether, he checks it, what if it did not take the fix... all over again.
Hardbricked Tab Save by Mobile Tech
I hardbricked my galaxy tab bought in Cambodia. My little brother open the tab trying to take the battery off and put it back on, thus void the warranty, found him on the Samsung vibrant forum, sent the tab to him got it back good as new. This person is professional, honest and good communication with his customers, you'll be happy with his work, if he can't fix it you get your money back (minus shipping and diagnosis)...Glad he is arround to help...
spacemoose1 said:
I pretty much agree, but I might refine:
BRICK= Unit does not power up, visibly charge, reach a boot-screen of any kind including a service or "download" screen. A device in this state requires service from the manufacturer or an individual equipped with the proper tools. There is no other way to recover a device in this state.
SOFT-BRICK= Unit powers up, reaches a "download" or service screen, visibly charges but does not boot into an OS. Crashing, hanging etc. all apply here. It is easy to recover a device from this state so long as one has access to a firmware that was designed for the device and the ability to flash said firmware.
SEMI-BRICK= See soft-brick above
JTAG= Provides access to system hardware by applying the correct voltage to the correct pins in order to push software via an external program.
In regards to the usb drivers, there are only actually 4 states
1. Active userspace
2. Serial gadget mode
3. Recovery
4. USB storage mode
And there is a separate driver for each of these (except recovery) in the Samsung driver package that should install automatically when the device is plugged in during normal use on a stock rom, or with the installation package available on the web.
The rest of it you've got pretty much correct.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You should post this in Q/A thread on its own as its very helpful and maybe it will stop the 1% of people saying help my phone is bricked comments ... the other 99% don't read anyway otherwise they would discover their phone isn't bricked and if they read properly it would not have gotten to the state in the first place .. and no I never posted something like that myself >:¬}
but well done on this..
alexgogan said:
You should post this in Q/A thread on its own as its very helpful and maybe it will stop the 1% of people saying help my phone is bricked comments ... the other 99% don't read anyway otherwise they would discover their phone isn't bricked and if they read properly it would not have gotten to the state in the first place .. and no I never posted something like that myself >:¬}
but well done on this..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
Sent from my GT-P1000 using Tapatalk
Nice find. For that amount of effort disassembling, and reviving, $50 is a very realistic price. I'll keep these guys in mind if I run into issues with my tab.
$50 for that much work is an absolute bargain! I wish I didn't live in a country where you get charged $200/hr for someone to pick their nose.
It's actually not that much more difficult than popping an OS install CD into a hosed computer and pressing 3 keys to let it run through the installation after flashing a corrupt motherboard BIOS. Yes, it takes familiarity with the software and hardware, but it's by no means a feat that requires a special skillset.
Granted, few people have JTAG stuff handy, so $50 is definitely worth it if you've hosed your device, but don't make it sound like he's sweating and coding the bootloader by hand, strenuously manipulating micro tools to disassemble the tablet and flipping DIP switches to restore the bootloader. You spend 5 minutes taking apart the tablet, you attach the JTAG cable, run the supplied software on your computer, and sit there recording the screen with your video recorder while the progressbar moves from 0 to 100.
Again, it's worth $50 simply because not everyone and their mother has JTAG hardware sitting around, but by no means is it hard. It's the same reason I can get away with charging $100 to clean viruses off of a computer. People either don't have the tools or don't know how to use them. That being said, I don't know a damn thing about using JTAG to restore a corrupt bootloader, nor do I have the right hardware, so I'd pay $50 if I were ever in the situation.
Edit: And yes, $100 for a virus clean is a lot, but people generally change their mind when I explain to them why they got viruses, as well as installing proper antivirus software and then instructing them on how to avoid infection in the future. I rarely get repeat business from the same customer but I get A LOT of referrals ;p They're happy paying that much when the person educates them instead of cleaning, not installing/explaining, then having to bring the computer in again two weeks later for another wallet-gouge, which most other computer 'repair people' gladly do over and over.
Everything in this world is rinse and repeat... The money comes from time spent learning to use the hardware properly, micro soldering skills (which isn't easy, no matter who you are), confidence enough to offer it as a service, not to mention the couple hundred bucks for the jtag software and hardware.
Now, the fact that if you have your device in a bricked state you likely voided the warranty, it's a 600 dollar brick if your samsung tech recognized it... 50 bucks is a steal to not deal with samsung anyway.
Try to be less pompous next time oh savoir of the hundred bone virus... Your poop stinks too, promise.
Sent from my "better than an iPad" tab running Overcome Hermes.
LycaonX said:
It's actually not that much more difficult than popping an OS install CD into a hosed computer and pressing 3 keys to let it run through the installation after flashing a corrupt motherboard BIOS. Yes, it takes familiarity with the software and hardware, but it's by no means a feat that requires a special skillset.
Granted, few people have JTAG stuff handy, so $50 is definitely worth it if you've hosed your device, but don't make it sound like he's sweating and coding the bootloader by hand, strenuously manipulating micro tools to disassemble the tablet and flipping DIP switches to restore the bootloader. You spend 5 minutes taking apart the tablet, you attach the JTAG cable, run the supplied software on your computer, and sit there recording the screen with your video recorder while the progressbar moves from 0 to 100.
Again, it's worth $50 simply because not everyone and their mother has JTAG hardware sitting around, but by no means is it hard. It's the same reason I can get away with charging $100 to clean viruses off of a computer. People either don't have the tools or don't know how to use them. That being said, I don't know a damn thing about using JTAG to restore a corrupt bootloader, nor do I have the right hardware, so I'd pay $50 if I were ever in the situation.
Edit: And yes, $100 for a virus clean is a lot, but people generally change their mind when I explain to them why they got viruses, as well as installing proper antivirus software and then instructing them on how to avoid infection in the future. I rarely get repeat business from the same customer but I get A LOT of referrals ;p They're happy paying that much when the person educates them instead of cleaning, not installing/explaining, then having to bring the computer in again two weeks later for another wallet-gouge, which most other computer 'repair people' gladly do over and over.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've got to call you out on this one. Mis-connecting or shorting any wires will lead to a damaged PCB and an un-resurrectable TAB. I'm also a Systems Admin for a living so I understand where you are coming from. You must realize that I solder at levels of .1mm in spacing on the Captivate, Vibrant and Nexus S. Electrical engineers and technicians have first hand talked with me about the difficulty of doing this and is NOT something that anyone can do. You'd think twice when you burn up a phone or two valued at $500 a pop trying to JTAG them. There is more skill involved than you would think. Not to mention the liability when dis-assembling the device. JTAG software is decent but it's not fully automated. There are TCK frequencies, RTCK frequencies different PBL partition sizes, full dcc loader read/writes and the requirement of EXACT voltage from an external power supply that are needed in MANY cases. Plus, there is little to no support when fixing a device. This means that if you can't figure it out, nobody else is going to for you. I'm not trying to brag but yet point out that this isn't like plugging in your phone for an ODIN flash. I've taken hundreds of hours of time and 1000's of dollars to create what I feel is the most trusted JTAG authority online ANYWHERE. I greatly appreciate having the opportunity to help the community and enthusiasts in this community. If this was as easy as you are claiming, you could get JTAG hardware and a manual at Best Buy. I have to say you put it best when you said you don't know anything about JTAG... Ok end of rant I was just a bit bothered by your post.
Ok with that being said, thanks for the personal testimonies and compliments. I will be here whenever anyone needs JTAG assistance in the future or around the forums to help answer Q&A when it doesn't require JTAG. Here is a Nexus S promo to realize how tiny some of these things are
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ecp8jKmm48k
i would love to learn more on how to do stuff like this if i had moneyz. the .1mm ext.
not just for android but to make my own ish.
thanks for the awsome videos.
Thanks for the link, hope I won't need it ;-)
Sent from my GT-P1000 using XDA App
So one day I was using Samsung Smart Switch to restore my firmware from Lineage OS to default Samsung. Everything was going well until the application gave me some kind of error box.
It said something along the lines of, “Update mode failed to initialize.” After that, my tablet went dark. I couldn’t power it on, or anything. Couldn’t even get it to go into download mode. If anyone could help, please do. Thanks in advance.
龍88 said:
So one day I was using Samsung Smart Switch to restore my firmware from Lineage OS to default Samsung. Everything was going well until the application gave me some kind of error box.
It said something along the lines of, “Update mode failed to initialize.” After that, my tablet went dark. I couldn’t power it on, or anything. Couldn’t even get it to go into download mode. If anyone could help, please do. Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you tried holding the Home, Vol down and Power buttons for over ten seconds? It could be that, even though the screen is black, that the tablet is still on.
4929york said:
Have you tried holding the Home, Vol down and Power buttons for over ten seconds? It could be that, even though the screen is black, that the tablet is still on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I have. And I know the screen isn't just black, because every time I attempt to plug it into my computer no input is detected.
Nevermind, it was actually just my charging universal serial bus port that was broken. I guess I had no battery that time so it ran out during the process of restoring my tablet.
龍88 said:
Nevermind, it was actually just my charging universal serial bus port that was broken. I guess I had no battery that time so it ran out during the process of restoring my tablet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I was gonna say, probably the greatest thing about Samsung devices, which almost makes up for the slow updates and the difficulty ROM developers have historically had in supporting Exynos, is Download Mode. It's hardcoded onto a read-only chip, will boot even if you lack a bootloader, and always works perfectly with Smartswitch or Odin as long as your MicroUSB port works, thus making is literally impossible to hard-brick a Samsung device except by causing physical damage (dropping, water damage, sledgehammer, etc). I don't know of any other OEM that has something similar. HTC's S-On sort of did the same thing, but it was on the regular NAND chip which made it less noob-proof than Download Mode, could theoretically be turned off, and was much more restrictive in the partitions it gave developers access to. I'm not loyal to Samsung or any other brand, my current Tab A 10.1 is my first Samsung device and could still be my last if someone else has better specs and better software for a better price in the next generation, but this is one of my favorite features. The moment you suggested you'd hard-bricked it with a simple attempt to flash something onto the regular NAND, I knew something had to be wrong with the battery or MicroUSB port.
Seanthedroid said:
Yeah, I was gonna say, probably the greatest thing about Samsung devices, which almost makes up for the slow updates and the difficulty ROM developers have historically had in supporting Exynos, is Download Mode. It's hardcoded onto a read-only chip, will boot even if you lack a bootloader, and always works perfectly with Smartswitch or Odin as long as your MicroUSB port works, thus making is literally impossible to hard-brick a Samsung device except by causing physical damage (dropping, water damage, sledgehammer, etc). I don't know of any other OEM that has something similar. HTC's S-On sort of did the same thing, but it was on the regular NAND chip which made it less noob-proof than Download Mode, could theoretically be turned off, and was much more restrictive in the partitions it gave developers access to. I'm not loyal to Samsung or any other brand, my current Tab A 10.1 is my first Samsung device and could still be my last if someone else has better specs and better software for a better price in the next generation, but this is one of my favorite features. The moment you suggested you'd hard-bricked it with a simple attempt to flash something onto the regular NAND, I knew something had to be wrong with the battery or MicroUSB port.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While DOWNLOAD mode is fairly robust it actually can quite easily be killed by a bad flash.
Speaking from experience. Aboot is responsible for booting the kernel or DOWNLOAD mode.
ABOOT should always be flashed with its corresponding SBL.
If not then the SBL may reject ABOOT as it wont have the correct signature. This breaks a chain of trust which is started from when the device is turned on and the firmware initialized.
(basically this is what is meant by secure boot seen in download mode)
If the SBL rejects ABOOT the device simply will not boot and will appear dead. No DOWNLOAD mode nothing.
Unfortunately I did this by accident when trying some mods out and flashed the wrong ABOOT thus killing my T555.
If you're lucky the device will drop into qhsusb_dload mode, however I think this mode only activates if the SBL believes ABOOT is corrupt not if it's failed the chain of trust.
Unfortunately this didn't happen, so the only option I have is to flash the EMMC direct using something like RIFF BOX in ISP mode(which I already have, but needs an update).
Failing that there is a little trick with an SDCARD adapter that could work with limited success I may try.
So just to sum up anything beyond flashing bootloaders is unlikely to brick the device as this will ensure DOWNLOAD mode is always accessible.
I have still a note 4 since 2014 (so will be c.a 7 years). I never put android 6 because i knew that (maybe) the motherboard would burn and i just put first kitkat and then lollipop. I think my mistake was to use the fast charger (I got one just one r two month ango before I was recharging the handy with a "normal" recharge) and now i have many problems (works very poorly, is slow, freezes but turns on)All the applications open slowly, If I take picturessometimes everything freezes I have to avoid / put the battery back.When I charge at 100% the light stays red and does not switch to green, sometimes it starts up in download mode, I can't go into recovery mode, I have to remove the battery and then put it back and force restart. These are some of the problems...And now the questions arrives...
1)where could I buy a note 4 motherboard that is sure to work (and pay cheaper)?I know Aliexpress but olso that there are different shops (so different garatee ensure the motherboard is working or not sim lock)
2)do you think I can still avoid changing the motherboard and put a piece of card on his eMMC and solve every problem at 100%?
Any help/slutin will be apreciated
Thank's
Helen
Hi Hellen,
I am no developer but maybe can help out a little. SO let em see if I can understand..
1. You are still running Lollipop
2. The phone works but is super buggy and slow.
3. You tried a fast charger on the phone when this all started.
I would tend to think that if it was a motherboard problem, the phone just would not power on, but if you say the problems started exactly when you used the fast charger, then it is too much of a coincidence to ignore.
Have you tried to charge using the 'normal' charger and see if that helps? It may be the voltage settings is off and that causes problems.
I think it is fairly 'easy' to replace a motherboard... and if you check Ebay there are many that can be sold for parts. It gets a little involved to unscrew and unclip everying to swap the motherboard... I had tried it with an old EVO supersonic and was a bit of a nightmare but if you are good with this stuff and have the right size equipment, then is pretty easy to do.
Let me know how it goes!
Dave
A fast charger won't damage the phone.
The phone is slow but functional, right?
I take Kitkat over lollipop anyday but regardless it reload time. The OS is buggered up, maybe a virus or rootkit.
If you can easily reflash that rom do so, or do a factory reset otherwise.
If the issue persists after a factory reset, it should be reflashed.
I don't think the mobo is blown... not yet.
I agree the fast charger shouldnt damage the phone, but didnt know if it was a cheaply made one and maybe caused a short on the MB of some kind.
That is a very good call. a system restore or even factory reset may be all that is needed.
Unidave199 said:
I agree the fast charger shouldnt damage the phone, but didnt know if it was a cheaply made one and maybe caused a short on the MB of some kind.
That is a very good call. a system restore or even factory reset may be all that is needed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A vital system apk, file, whatever in OS image may have become corrupted. Flash memory doesn't retain its data indefinitely. A factory reset would restore it. The same thing can happen to that data as well so if all fails, reflash it.
At that point you can then accurately assess if there's been hardware damage or not.
Pre-Pie OS's can be infected with a rootkit that requires a reflash to eliminate. Some real nasty rootkits are out there...
A malware infection should always be suspected if an Android starts functioning abnormally. They are rare but they do happen.
Unidave199 said:
I agree the fast charger shouldnt damage the phone, but didnt know if it was a cheaply made one and maybe caused a short on the MB of some kind.
That is a very good call. a system restore or even factory reset may be all that is needed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you know why I think maybe is the fast charge? because it was the only new / different thing i did and after a week I had problems.I think if you charge fast the phone gets hotter (and the motherboard too) Before I used a simple travel charger.Note 4 dosent go in recovery mode I can try to do a factory reset from the setting but,..If then will not restart?ATM I'm using WAKELOCK,I have uninstaled 50% app/games so I give to the handy more memory and if I must restrt it I force the restart (vol down+ power .As I wrote can only go on download mode but not on recovery mde .
Hope will not brick (ols if is 7 years I have it) just wundering if and when wll fine a good price of a note 20 ultra
PS:I forget to write that one "test I done was to restart note 4 in safe mode" but that dident help me :/
helen2 said:
Do you know why I think maybe is the fast charge? because it was the only new / different thing i did and after a week I had problems.I think if you charge fast the phone gets hotter (and the motherboard too) Before I used a simple travel charger.Note 4 dosent go in recovery mode I can try to do a factory reset from the setting but,..If then will not restart?ATM I'm using WAKELOCK,I have uninstaled 50% app/games so I give to the handy more memory and if I must restrt it I force the restart (vol down+ power .As I wrote can only go on download mode but not on recovery mde .
Hope will not brick (ols if is 7 years I have it) just wundering if and when wll fine a good price of a note 20 ultra
PS:I forget to write that one "test I done was to restart note 4 in safe mode" but that dident help me :/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wait for the Note FE to come out
But... if you can get into download mode, that means you may need to use ODIN to re flash all the firmware and operating system back on.
I know this phone can get warm.. like 70C warm. I will often put it on a little ice tray when I am flashing to keep things nice and cool.
Unidave199 said:
Wait for the Note FE to come out
But... if you can get into download mode, that means you may need to use ODIN to re flash all the firmware and operating system back on.
I know this phone can get warm.. like 70C warm. I will often put it on a little ice tray when I am flashing to keep things nice and cool.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I need spen ...The problem is the memory (eMMC) so I think that is the reason why is not able to go in recovery mode and is not able to restart (if I dont force it) s If I flash back lollipop maybe memory will not be enuf to restart in recovery mode (fr a wpe data) and as u know without a wipre data afer flashing will not restart s I will have it "half bricked"