Database Users

January 22nd North American 850MHz HSPA 3G Blackstone...

Saw this news story, does anyone know if it is credible? The NextG Service is on the 850MHz band which is the same as Rogers/Fido in Canada and Cingular in the US...if all this is true then one of these unlocked would be 3G Compatible in North America...Thoughts?
http://apcmag.com/iphonelike_htc_touch_hd_set_for_aussie_launch.htm
http://www.expansys.com.au/d.aspx?i=173812

Well that would suck for me because about 3 hours ago I got an iPhone because I really needed 3g already I do ally of browsing and videos but I like the touch he better....

What is the exact issue with North America and the Touch HD? I thought HSDPA was fully supported in our continent under most major providers. Just curious as I'm looking at purchasing one in the future.

Lokosis said:
What is the exact issue with North America and the Touch HD? I thought HSDPA was fully supported in our continent under most major providers. Just curious as I'm looking at purchasing one in the future.
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Click to collapse
The Touch HD that is out now operates on UMTS 900/2100. Telstra in Australia and the North American providers (except T-Mobile) use UMTS 850.

hopefully it is just some software that HTC did. cuz we do have that option to change it to 850MHz 3G in the phone but just nothing happens to it. If a flash can fix it then it should be ok. EDGE for me is pretty fast anyways in Toronto most of the time.

b-e-a-s-t said:
Saw this news story, does anyone know if it is credible? The NextG Service is on the 850MHz band which is the same as Rogers/Fido in Canada and Cingular in the US...if all this is true then one of these unlocked would be 3G Compatible in North America...Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
850 mHz is just one of the 2 bands needed to work on US 3G. you also need 1900 . my understanding is one band is for upload the other for download. don't get me wrong, it would be fantastic if the Aussie version was fully capable on US networks. i'll believe it when i see it. heck, expansys even has a note saying they have to confirm the 850mHz 3G band.

850/1900Mhz....
could someone please explain the upload/download at different frequencies paradigm to me?

cortez.i said:
850 mHz is just one of the 2 bands needed to work on US 3G. you also need 1900 . my understanding is one band is for upload the other for download. don't get me wrong, it would be fantastic if the Aussie version was fully capable on US networks. i'll believe it when i see it. heck, expansys even has a note saying they have to confirm the 850mHz 3G band.
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Click to collapse
This is incorrect. With at&t you do not need both. With just 850mHz you will be more than fine.
Now with T-Mobile you would need both 1700 and 2100 not just 2100 or just 1700 both. Just more reason to hate T-Mobile.

I am ready to take the plunge and drop the $ for an HD. I also will switch my number back to at&t from verizon. I guessi cna say almost ready. I really dont want to spend $800 for no 3G

Does anyone know how hspa in Canada with Rogers/Fido works? i.e. are dual frequencies required or is 850MHz enough to get top speeds? Thanks...

Has anyone brought one into the US and had any success getting a 3G signal ?

Some carriers in the US and Canada use 850mhz such as AT&T and Rogers but they also use 1900mhz. It really depends where you live... Whiich city, state etc
1900mhz is growing in popularity in the states.

tbfl said:
Has anyone brought one into the US and had any success getting a 3G signal ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Doesnt work

b-e-a-s-t said:
could someone please explain the upload/download at different frequencies paradigm to me?
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Click to collapse
I can't remember which but one is used for uploading and one is used for downloading.
cortez.i said:
850 mHz is just one of the 2 bands needed to work on US 3G. you also need 1900 . my understanding is one band is for upload the other for download. don't get me wrong, it would be fantastic if the Aussie version was fully capable on US networks. i'll believe it when i see it. heck, expansys even has a note saying they have to confirm the 850mHz 3G band.
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Click to collapse
You are exactly right. YOu need both 1900 and 850mhz
tbfl said:
Has anyone brought one into the US and had any success getting a 3G signal ?
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Click to collapse
Sadly, no 3G for me.

You do not need both 1900 and 850. Its only tmobile that u need both frequenes but they use 1700 and 2100. As long as u have ether 850 or 1900 (depending on what freuency ur area uses) u will have 3g with at&t.

cortez.i said:
850 mHz is just one of the 2 bands needed to work on US 3G. you also need 1900 . my understanding is one band is for upload the other for download. don't get me wrong, it would be fantastic if the Aussie version was fully capable on US networks. i'll believe it when i see it. heck, expansys even has a note saying they have to confirm the 850mHz 3G band.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, the *network* you use may be present on more than one frequency, but its not 850 being uplink and 1700 being the downlink.
When we talk about UMTS the downlink is around 850/1700/2100 but the uplink is always a few MHz below that. (to be pedantic, the UMTS specification specifies the exact downlink/uplink separation)
I can't imagine HTC producing a UMTS 850 phone that won't work on ATT/Rogers and Telstra . Telstra only needs the 850 band so HTC can add in whatever extra the US providers use. It will probably be the same bands supported by the HTC Hermes and other phones common to these providers.

for AT&T, you do NOT need both frequencies (850 and 1900) for 3G. They don't HAVE both frequencies in most areas. It's one or the other.
And yes, T-Mobile US sucks ass...
-Mc

Tremere said:
No, the *network* you use may be present on more than one frequency, but its not 850 being uplink and 1700 being the downlink.
When we talk about UMTS the downlink is around 850/1700/2100 but the uplink is always a few MHz below that. (to be pedantic, the UMTS specification specifies the exact downlink/uplink separation)
I can't imagine HTC producing a UMTS 850 phone that won't work on ATT/Rogers and Telstra . Telstra only needs the 850 band so HTC can add in whatever extra the US providers use. It will probably be the same bands supported by the HTC Hermes and other phones common to these providers.
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Click to collapse
McHale said:
for AT&T, you do NOT need both frequencies (850 and 1900) for 3G. They don't HAVE both frequencies in most areas. It's one or the other.
And yes, T-Mobile US sucks ass...
-Mc
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Click to collapse
Well I stand corrected then. This is good news then. Just need somebody in the US to buy a Telstra HD and see if it works. I guess it will be dependent on the area though. If you don't have 850mhz.

Lol i guess it took a senor member to say it for anyone to believe it. I only said it in the first page lol. Lets see what happens when the aus model comes out.

So it is decided then IF the Blackstone is introduced by Telstra and working on their 850MHz 3.5G Network THEN it has the opportunity to work in both the US on Att and Canada's Rogers/Fido...I will wait for this device, purchase it and let the board know if someone else doesn't beat me to it!
P.S. does someone think that this release may be with the Android OS for Telstra? It was the Telstra reps that were commenting at CES 2009 regarding Palm Pre and how the next Android phone that they were testing kicks it...who knows probably coincidence...

T-mobile's US HD2 works on 2100 MHz 3G in Europe?

Hi,
The official specs of T-mobile's HD2 says that the supported 3G bands are: WCDMA/HSPA: 1700 MHz (AWS) / 2100 MHz
Does it mean it will work on European 2100 MHz 3G too? Nexus one does so I suspect HD2 could too but as far as I could digg nobody had a straight answer to this question yet.
-AlefSin

actually i asked HTC CS before, and the answer is NO!
european countries WCDMA frequencies are the same with ASIAN countries. So no chance for European countries either.

hmmm I don't know JohnQ. In your attached email HTC is saying China's frequencies are different from the rest of the world so how do you say it's the same as Europe? I don't know much about 3G network in China though.

Just a few weeks back it was annoounced that the US operators had all signed up to migrating to the rest of the wold's GSM standards!
So in time we will all be singing from the same hymn sheet!

Accoridng to Wikipedia, while 3G in China is using the same frequencies as Europe in UMTS-I band, the air interface is different (TD-SCDMA vs TD-CDMA).
(sorry, cannot link to the docs since as junior member cannot embed links yet).

pa49 said:
Just a few weeks back it was annoounced that the US operators had all signed up to migrating to the rest of the wold's GSM standards!
So in time we will all be singing from the same hymn sheet!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow, that's... odd! It seems US operators cannot even agree whinin US and now they all want to use the rest of world's standards! That's so un-american!

At&T, rogers, etc are all using european 3G frequencies, which is why you can use device from europe on their networks.
T-mobile US uses 1700 & 2100 (one for up stream, one for downstream) which is why it won't work on at&t etc or european frequencies.
The t-mobile 3G phones use both 1700 and 2100 at the same time; and they cant use 2100 seperately on other networks.

erm att uses 850/1900,and very few operators use the same,none in Europe use these bands

alefsin said:
hmmm I don't know JohnQ. In your attached email HTC is saying China's frequencies are different from the rest of the world so how do you say it's the same as Europe? I don't know much about 3G network in China though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you can check though. google it

Yes it does!
alefsin said:
Hi,
The official specs of T-mobile's HD2 says that the supported 3G bands are: WCDMA/HSPA: 1700 MHz (AWS) / 2100 MHz
Does it mean it will work on European 2100 MHz 3G too? Nexus one does so I suspect HD2 could too but as far as I could digg nobody had a straight answer to this question yet.
-AlefSin
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've tested mine on a 3G only network (2100mhz) and it works fine. What I mean by "only" is that the Digi Mobil in Romania works only on 2100Mhz.
I hope it helps!
GG

JohnQ said:
you can check though. google it
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Click to collapse
I did, check post #5

Well, it seems the answer is negative. I asked HTC:
Hi, I'm very excited about HTC HD2 on T-Mobile USA. However there is a cruicial question taht I could not find an answer for yet: Should I get this phone, when I travel to Europe, can I use 3G? The specs say this phone will support AWS/2100 MHz UMTS. Since the 2100 MHz is the dominant frequency for western european 3G networks, does it mean this phone would work on their 3G networks? Nobody at T-mobile's support could answer me so I hope you could solve this mystery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And they answered:
Thank you for contacting HTC Technical Assistance Center. I understand the importance in researching a phone before you purchase it. This is a unusual situation and one T-mobile may not have been experienced with. For T-mobiles network the phone will be using the 1700 and 2100 bands. Although the 2100 band is common world wide. allowing the phone to pick up the edge network. T-mobile uses the 1700 for there 3G services. This band as far as we are aware is only used by T-mobile when it comes to major carriers world wide. More then likely the phone would not be able to pick up 3g if taken over seas.
However. T-mobile dose have a few branches in Europe. You may wish to check with them to see what bands they use for 3G, and if they have had any conflicts with American phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

wmfreak said:
I've tested mine on a 3G only network (2100mhz) and it works fine. What I mean by "only" is that the Digi Mobil in Romania works only on 2100Mhz.
I hope it helps!
GG
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But T-mobile's HD2 is not out yet! Are you sure you didn't test European HD2?

OK things are starting to get weird. I received a negative answer from HTC's customer support but then I found USA T-mobile G1 users that reported their phones were working on 2100 MHz 3G in Europe (G1 like US T-mobile version of HD2 only supports 1700/2100 MHz 3G). I need to buy a phone and these contradictory reports leave me confused

Here is what T-mobile says in the specs sheet of the new HD2:
Band (frequency): 850 MHz;900 MHz;1800 MHz;1900 MHz;UMTS: Band I (2100);UMTS: Band IV (AWS);UMTS: Band IV (1700/2100)
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Click to collapse
Isn't it interesting that 2100 Mhz is listed both separately and in with combintaion with 1700 Mhz?

JohnQ said:
actually i asked HTC CS before, and the answer is NO!
european countries WCDMA frequencies are the same with ASIAN countries. So no chance for European countries either.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nice email address you have in that picture John

I tested my unlocked TMOUS HD2 in Sweden using 3's network and worked like a charm in 3G

Bit of a bump here as I'm trying to use my unlocked US T-Mobile HD2 with Orange in France and I can't do better than Edge (it went down to GPRS at one point...). I guess it could come down to spotty reception but I do get 3G speeds in my current location with an iPhone 3GS so I'm not so sure...
I'm using the AmericanAndroid ROM, maybe that's why my speed is throttled ;-)

I am using HD2 T-mobile in Serbia and i have no problem with conection or data speed.
I was on vacation and i didnt use Wifi ,and i used the phone all the time on 3G - the 3G network is incredibly fast, I even think that it is twice as fast as the EU HD2, which I used before..

Thanks, will check again then, maybe bad reception then!

Galaxy s 9000 with tmobile 3g usa?

Anyone here have the galaxy s 9000 euro version working with tmobile 3 g in usa?

I'm also interested in that. I'm about to buy a galaxy here in EU but I'm moving to california soon. There should be no issues however since the galaxy is a quad band phone

I looked into importing a HTC Desire from Tmo UK for use here on Tmo's US network -
Tmo europe uses 2100 band for 3g, Tmo US uses the AWS IV band (1700/2100) for 3G - i did a little more research and found that 2100 was the download side and 1700 for upload - and as Tmo here in the US told me my Tmo MyTouch 3G would work fine in europe, i figured i'd be good to go - maybe only have 3G speeds on the download side
got hold of a 2nd level tech at Tmo and he 'xplained it down't work that way - if the Tmo US network doesn't see both freqs (1700 & 2100) it will switch me to 2G data speeds
so answer is, it'll work for phone calls, but data speeds will be limited to 2G

larryccf said:
I looked into importing a HTC Desire from Tmo UK for use here on Tmo's US network -
Tmo europe uses 2100 band for 3g, Tmo US uses the AWS IV band (1700/2100) for 3G - i did a little more research and found that 2100 was the download side and 1700 for upload - and as Tmo here in the US told me my Tmo MyTouch 3G would work fine in europe, i figured i'd be good to go - maybe only have 3G speeds on the download side
got hold of a 2nd level tech at Tmo and he 'xplained it down't work that way - if the Tmo US network doesn't see both freqs (1700 & 2100) it will switch me to 2G data speeds
so answer is, it'll work for phone calls, but data speeds will be limited to 2G
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can confirm, I did a lot of digging myself and found the same thing. I'm from the UK but living in the US for a year or so. I was going to get a Galaxy S from ebay but realised they didn't have the 1700 freq so wouldn't get 3g with T-mobile over here ion the US.
My Iphone 3g from the UK only gets edge data transfer speeds here in the US as it too is missing the important 1700 freq...
My original post: forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=713900

thank you guys then it's good to know the vibrant is out next week

larryccf said:
I looked into importing a HTC Desire from Tmo UK for use here on Tmo's US network -
Tmo europe uses 2100 band for 3g, Tmo US uses the AWS IV band (1700/2100) for 3G - i did a little more research and found that 2100 was the download side and 1700 for upload - and as Tmo here in the US told me my Tmo MyTouch 3G would work fine in europe, i figured i'd be good to go - maybe only have 3G speeds on the download side
got hold of a 2nd level tech at Tmo and he 'xplained it down't work that way - if the Tmo US network doesn't see both freqs (1700 & 2100) it will switch me to 2G data speeds
so answer is, it'll work for phone calls, but data speeds will be limited to 2G
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Finally figured this out too after posting questions in different places. Found this article which had a very detail explaination.
www . phonescoop . com/articles/article.php?a=99&p=1492
One thing I'm wondering is if it is possible to flash the android radio version from a Vibrant on to an international Galaxy S to enable Tmobile AWS?

that question is best answered by someone far more knowledgeable than i am in software and android OS

i want 3g
I just recently bought the unlocked galaxy s to use for when I study abroad in Germany in the coming months. However, I am experiencing the very issue raised in this thread and have been searching high and low to find a solution to change the radio frequency to include both 1700 and 2100. Hopefully, flashing the firmware from the vibrant to the unlocked galaxy s will work, but I'm not experienced enough to even know where to start.

Should a UK HD2 act different on a Canadian Network?

Hi All
I have recently moved to Canada with my UK HTC HD2.
Since moving here I have changed my phone provider to Fido (Rogers Network). Internet seems extremely slow compared to my UK provider.
Someone told me that because I have a UK phone it is not using the correct bands for HSPA and that's why my internet access is so slow. Internet access is extremely fast on Wi-Fi so I know it's not a problem with the ROM etc.
Can anyone give me any ideas if this sounds correct - do I need to sell my UK HTC HD2 and purchase an American one to get over this problem?
Thanks

I think your friend is correct.
Rogers uses 850Mhz and 1900 Mhz, while in the
United Kingdom the bands used are 800Mhz and 1800Mhz (and some 2100Mhz),
Your UK HD2 is of European configuration, and should be able to cope with the Rogers frequencies. (See)
Your phone uses 900 - 2100 for 3G
Rogers provides it at 850 - 1900 , therefore your phone will slow down to GPRS speeds.
Have you tried flashing a new radio ROM?
If so, perhaps you should try another one.
At least in theory you could keep your phone and have mobile broadband.
What your friend is telling is true for dual band phones, however the HD2 is quad band..... Perhaps contact your provider (sometimes the dataplan has not been correctly activated, therefore access to mobile broadband is denied, and you will revert to the low GSM data band)
Otherwise contact HTC.
PS: Sorry for my ****-up

the t8585 (regular hd2) uses 900 and 2100 for 3g.
source
thats why canadian users with cash to splash go for the australian telstra model which uses 850/2100
You will only get GPRS and edge speeds, and no, the american wont get 3g either.

Yep....
I's official, I am cross-eyed, got the correct info, but wrong interpretation.
I stand corrected.

Thanks to both of you for the response .... I'm a little confused though!
So if I bought a T-Mobile USA model - that wouldn't give me 3G on the Rogers network I'm on? I have to buy an Australian Telstra model to get 3G?
Thanks!
*EDIT* ... Oh I think I get it now... I don't need to have the 850 and 1900 bands to use 3G on the Rogers network so long as I have one or the other - correct me if I am wrong please?

yea thats it, and the US hd2 has 1700/2100 which is why that one doesnt get 3g on rogers.

I get ya! Thanks for that.... so is Canada the only country that uses 1900? I'm asking because I now know that I can buy an Australian phone to suit the 850 but is there another country's phone apart from Canada that will use the 1900 band?
also I noticed something in my phone settings....there's an option to change my base band so I have selected 850/1900 GSM but it doesn't seem to have made a great deal of difference even after a reset

that's gsm, (calls, gprs and edge) nothing to do with the umts bands.
put umts bands into google, theres a Wikipedia page tells you what countries and networks use what bands.

US T-Mobile's 3G freq vs the rest of the world?

Anyone getting the T-Mobile version tomorrow? With CDMA not SIM capable, and AT&T version still up in the air, I think I'm probably going to get one tomorrow!
I've got question regarding T-Mobile's werid 3G band tho. I think Samsung listed T-Mobile's version as AWS 1700/2100. I know 1700 is weird, but is that AWS 2100 same as the 2100 band that the rest of the world use? Sorry it's my first 3G T-mobile device, and looking on wiki or google is just kinda vague

2100MHz is the band used all across Europe as well as large parts of Asia.
So, yes, the T-Mobile one should give you 3G capability in other parts of the world, though if it's locked that may open up other issues.

Step666 said:
2100MHz is the band used all across Europe as well as large parts of Asia.
So, yes, the T-Mobile one should give you 3G capability in other parts of the world, though if it's locked that may open up other issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had a TMo US G1, and it worked fine on 3G when I returned to the UK. The converse was not true of my TMo UK G2 (HTC Hero), which would only get Edge in the US because it did not support both bands of AWS (1700/2100).
So, I see no reason why a TMo US shouldn't work pretty much everywhere else in the world where 2100 3G is ubiquitous.
Regards,
Dave

Cool thanks, i guess that AWS threw me off. I thought there were a regular 2100, and then T-Mobile's AWS 2100

Step666 said:
2100MHz is the band used all across Europe as well as large parts of Asia.
So, yes, the T-Mobile one should give you 3G capability in other parts of the world, though if it's locked that may open up other issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually you're a bit off. Tmo's 3G runs on AWS 1700/2100 band which is not the same 2100 *frequency* as the rest of the world. Tmo uses 1700 for downloads and 2100 for uploads, so both bands (aws/band IV) are needed.
Now Europe (and rest of GSM world) use straight 2100 band for 3G but the exact frequency is not the same as Tmo's.
Basically a Tmo Galaxy Tab will only get you EDGE outside of the US. An ATT Galaxy Tab will get you 3G in the US and the rest of the world (as long as it's sim unlocked, ofcourse).

LordLugard said:
Basically a Tmo Galaxy Tab will only get you EDGE outside of the US. An ATT Galaxy Tab will get you 3G in the US and the rest of the world (as long as it's sim unlocked, ofcourse).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, the T-mobile phones give you also 3G in Europe. All AWS chipsets do both Band I (2100) and Band IV (AWS 1700/2100).

I thought the galaxy tab is quad band, so you can simply swap your sim card with another european carrier and it should work on thier frequency
Am I wrong?

ahbvrh said:
I thought the galaxy tab is quad band, so you can simply swap your sim card with another european carrier and it should work on thier frequency
Am I wrong?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're right for 2G, not for 3G

So getting the unlock code for tmobile device and putting AT&T sim card will not give me 3g connectivity (using AT&T network)?

ahbvrh said:
So getting the unlock code for tmobile device and putting AT&T sim card will not give me 3g connectivity (using AT&T network)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, because it doesn't support the 850 or 1900 MHz bands.

Volker1 said:
No, the T-mobile phones give you also 3G in Europe. All AWS chipsets do both Band I (2100) and Band IV (AWS 1700/2100).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It will not. Pls do some more reading on the subject. There's a very good writeup on it in these forum. Someone explained it better than I've probably done. If I find it I'll link to it.

LordLugard said:
It will not. Pls do some more reading on the subject.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One could say the same to you.
This is a link to T-Mobile US's support forum, in which someone has had it confirmed from T-Mobile themselves that all devices designed for their network have to be fully compatible with the 2100MHz band, meaning they will give you 3G capabilities in Europe.
Your previous post in which you claim that the 2100MHz band that T-Mobile use is not the same as the 2100MHz band the rest of the world uses is nothing short of ridiculous.
If the band T-Mobile used was different to the one used in the rest of the world, it would not be described as 2100MHz.

LordLugard said:
It will not. Pls do some more reading on the subject. There's a very good writeup on it in these forum. Someone explained it better than I've probably done. If I find it I'll link to it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, but as I already said earlier in this thread, my T-Mobile US G1, which is an AWS device, worked perfectly well in the UK with full 3G. Similarly, I know of people who bought TMo Nexus Ones in the US, and these all worked fine in the UK.
That's not to say there isn't some subtle difference which not all chipsets can cater for, but it is certainly true that many TMo US handsets will give 3G capabilities in Europe.
Regards,
Dave

The normal UMTS 2100 is called "Band I" and t-mobile's AWS is called "Band IV":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UMTS_frequency_bands
The AWS 3G module has already 2100MHz support, so there is no additional hardware necessary to support Band I as well. Theoretically it could be disabled, of course, but then T-mobile wouldn't be able to charge you an arm and a leg if you were to roam outside of the US