Database Users

Noobs please take notice.

Guys and Gals,
Please do us all a favor and do some analysis prior posting a rant or complaint about this build or that build in the cooks thread, do us a favor and do a little bit of analysis so you can give those that might be able to help some more info other than "this build sucks and my phone is broken".
And certainly dont ask what build you should try next because noone is gonna give you that info. Every cook had placed a disclaimer in there thread (I think) cautioning that all this is at your own risk.
I, for one, am tired of reading posts that do nothing more than bash the work of the people that are putting in all the time.

I think asking which build is "best" is a natural question but you make very valid points.
My only complaint is the lack of stickies for informative threads that could answer noob questions before they even get a chance to scroll down.

the things you are asking people to do are located in almost every thread in the Android forums. If they haven't stopped asking questions that could be answered with 5 minutes of reading or tested out ROMs on their own before this thread, you posting a thread about it is not going to change anything.

who u calling a noob

all the stickies and informative threads in the world aren't gonna stop people asking the same dumbass questions over and over and over and over again.....
people are just lazy and want to be spoon fed....... (most of em anyway)

orangekid said:
the things you are asking people to do are located in almost every thread in the Android forums. If they haven't stopped asking questions that could be answered with 5 minutes of reading or tested out ROMs on their own before this thread, you posting a thread about it is not going to change anything.
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Ah yes, another example of the supreme arrogace of many of the denizens of this forum.
Sorry, but the vast majority of the information about the specifics of running android on the HD2 is buried or never well explained.
Examples include the PPP vs RMNET dichotomy, different kernel sources, AXI, how ringtones on the internal data store don't work, etc.
Hell, I've been floating around for over a month and still don't have a clue what AXI means.
While I agree, that yes, a lot of questions can be answered from the couple of informative stickies, it is irritating how much info it is assumed you know, and the casual disregard for how much of a time investment is actually needed to get a handle on what is going on.

@OP... your sentiment is appreciated but this won't serve any purpose except to start a flame war. Locking it down.

General rules we should all follow

Here are some rules from the Vibrant section we should all follow.
egzthunder1 said:
This was a good meeting in General and it has covered all of the things that I had in my agenda. A few action items on our (mods) end:
1. New threads for ROM updates: Rom threads become quasi chaotic after page 100 or so. Since Chefs update most of their work often, I would suggest that chefs open a new thread for each version with a date and version number to distinguish it from the previous one (maybe even a name)
ie [ROM] 12/15/10 - Inchybrid v 1.2 - all is good now
2. Rom Review Thread: In order to minimize the clutter of the usual "what rom is best" questions, we will start a ROM thread where chefs can post a link to their roms on the first few posts and users will be able to leave reviews (not necessarily feedback), but reviews. So, when someone comes asking for the best rom, that person can be directed there.
3. Wiki update and guides (sticky): These need to be heavily updated, but will certainly be a useful tool to help people with questions.
4. Location / shape of the Report button: I will talk to the other admins and see what can be done about this one.
5. Preventing non-devs from making new threads in Dev: We are currently discussing a system for this. We will keep you posted if and when we reach a conclusion.
6. Off Topic Lounge: There will be a thread in General for you guys to blow off steam. Nothing fancy, but you can post there without having to open a new thread in OT general
Now, onto the action items results and requests from us (mods)
1. Further flaming for questions will not be tolerated. I gathered from this meeting that everyone agrees on a stance that people need not be flamed for asking anything. If there are questions in the wrong areas or simply don't feel like answering, refrain from posting and report it to us. We will move it to Q&A or General depending on the question. Building on this point, if anyone is caught flaming someone who posted in the correct section, that person will be given a vacation.
2. Rule 12 (aka Kanging): Rom chefs (no matter if they are themers or zip wizards), if they are using someone else's efforts as a base for their rom, they are to abide by Rule 12 by asking permission and posting the due credit in the opening post. Kanging will not be tolerated.
3. Donations: This was barely brushed but I feel that we reached an understanding rather quickly on this one. Chefs shall not ask for Donations to release early work.
4. Posting any kind of flaming will not be tolerated. If you feel that a post shouldn't be there, please let us know and we will take care of that.
I think this pretty much summed everything up. If I missed something, please let me know. I expect everyone to adhere to codes of conduct in this site. Thanks to all for attending.
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That would be great if the mods are able to only give thread permissions to devs. This forum needs this kind of policing, but I think more Mods could help as well, it seems like Zelendel is the only Mod that comes around here.

flashman2002 said:
That would be great if the mods are able to only give thread permissions to devs. This forum needs this kind of policing, but I think more Mods could help as well, it seems like Zelendel is the only Mod that comes around here.
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Sounds very familiar..............
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=9591647&postcount=3155

Sqdnguns said:
Sounds very familiar..............
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=9591647&postcount=3155
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Sweet, but I did not steal your thoughts if that is what you are meaning lol. I haven't used Perception since v4 so I had no idea you said this. But it really is a great idea and should be looked at by the Mods and Admin.

flashman2002 said:
Sweet, but I did not steal your thoughts if that is what you are meaning lol. I haven't used Perception since v4 so I had no idea you said this. But it really is a great idea and should be looked at by the Mods and Admin.
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Not at all, just glad someone else actually piped in on it.

5. Preventing non-devs from making new threads in Dev: We are currently discussing a system for this. We will keep you posted if and when we reach a conclusion.
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interesting idea.
If you do this you might consider making altering/combining the other forums slightly.
For instance
Make:
General = General / Q&A
and
Q & A = Development Q&A
This way non-dev with specific Development/Rom related' Q's could start threads under Dev. Q & A without cluttering up the General Q&A or the Development Threads.

bames said:
interesting idea.
If you do this you might consider making altering/combining the other forums slightly.
For instance
Make:
General = General / Q&A
and
Q & A = Development Q&A
This way non-dev with specific Development/Rom related' Q's could start threads under Dev. Q & A without cluttering up the General Q&A or the Development Threads.
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I've always thought something similar to this. It seems like a frequent misperception among those with posts <10 that Q&A is for those that know nothing, and the development thread is where you go if you know anything about development (and then you can also post a question there)
I for sure thought this when I first came to XDA (luckily I read the stickies which made that clear). But changing the name could help.
Sent from my SGH-T959D using XDA App

Or another idea would not be to just completely lock the Dev thread to devs, but to perhaps have a minimum level of seniority/experience to post -- aka Senior members.
The reason that I say this is that there are a ton of folks that are not devs, but do post a lot of helpful troubleshooting information and/or feedback that not all the devs can answer personally. I would much rather the devs use their precious time on getting us the next version of goodness rather than answering a lot of questions.
If you do require some level of seniority (100+ posts for example) you can probably cut down on a lot of the typical questions that are repeatedly asked (and answered a few posts back) and have a much cleaner thread. It's not a perfect world, but offenders can be dealt with individually when you have a smaller pool.
Not to say that noobs shouldn't have a place to ask questions -- we were all there at one time, but we just make sure there is a different area for this -- not clogging the particular ROM thread.
I've seen several other forums and communities operate with this type of principle in high value areas. It also allows newer members to get their feet wet and contribute in other areas by posting for others if they want to post in the dev community (but lurking will always be allowed / should be encouraged).
Just my 2 cents.

I have Stuck this as I agree 100000000000%. As far as locking the the Dev section, that has been talked about and is not going to happen anytime in the near future. My suggestion is for everyone and yes that means YOU to treat everyone with respect and dignity. If someone goes off I am almost always on and read every pm so let me know as I cant be everywhere at once and I am still learning as well.

Wow great ideas, I couldn't agree more. +1

I like the idea of new post for new versions, I hope that would cut down on the flaming too due to missing a one line post on page 999 of 1200 that would answer the question.

I disagree with the 'only devs can post in the dev section' rule. While I would technically not be considered a dev (per se) because I do not know how to make a ROM I would still like to be able to post in that section things that are technically not ROMs but do not fit in general. For example, I created the Galaxy S unlocker for Mac, but I have not figured out how to make a ROM. Does that make me a developer or not?

agreed man

+1 to the new ROM new thread idea. That would cut way down on the Old Salty XDA member yelling at the noob interactions.
Oh and i believe it should be illegal to call the Captivate a "Cappy" FYL

Don't worry about the guide portion, I have a guide in the works that covers everything from installing drivers to the update-script.
Another thing I would like to personally add. When new users or the not-so-inclined make a thread asking for help, do any of us stop to realize why that thread ends up on the Development board? In my opinion, we need a board dedicated to SUPPORT. Yeah, we have Q&A, but Q&A doesn't say Support to a lot of people. Example, Q&A to me spells "Information", not "Support." Sure, the Q&A's may be intended to be "My phone won't turn on", or "My 3g doesn't work", but if that's the case, why beat around the bush and call it Q&A?
There are those of us out there who do enjoy helping newcomers, and answering their questions; regardless of what board they post on; and there are those of us who like to get deep into this, leave support for the less experienced and get *$&! done. Know how we could cut back on flaming, and on people posting in the wrong board? Spell it out for them, in big bold letters; "Captivate Support". Not only that, dev's could start up a sister thread for each ROM they do in the support board, that way the actual release thread isn't a mess.
Maybe I'm just dumb though.

I have to say I particularly like the flaming rules. Sure, noobs are going to ask questions that everyone else has known the answer to for the past 5 months. I know it can get tedious reading these same things all the time, but remember that we once were noobs too, and I would bet most of us have asked "dumb" questions when first starting out. People are excited to learn about this stuff...let's not take away the spark with ad hominem attacks. They serve no purpose whatsoever, and no one wants to read them. If you don't want to answer, keep your mouth shut. If you do, do so politely either directly or (probably a little better), point them to a thread that will answer their questions. But come on, users calling a noob an "idiot" or "dumbass" for asking an honest question really pisses me off. And like I said, remember that you probably did it at some point, too. Okay, I'll get off my soapbox now

geokhentix said:
Don't worry about the guide portion, I have a guide in the works that covers everything from installing drivers to the update-script.
Another thing I would like to personally add. When new users or the not-so-inclined make a thread asking for help, do any of us stop to realize why that thread ends up on the Development board? In my opinion, we need a board dedicated to SUPPORT. Yeah, we have Q&A, but Q&A doesn't say Support to a lot of people. Example, Q&A to me spells "Information", not "Support." Sure, the Q&A's may be intended to be "My phone won't turn on", or "My 3g doesn't work", but if that's the case, why beat around the bush and call it Q&A?
There are those of us out there who do enjoy helping newcomers, and answering their questions; regardless of what board they post on; and there are those of us who like to get deep into this, leave support for the less experienced and get *$&! done. Know how we could cut back on flaming, and on people posting in the wrong board? Spell it out for them, in big bold letters; "Captivate Support"
Maybe I'm just dumb though.
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I think this is also a good idea, primarily for those with stock phones or just performing basic procedures (e.g. rooting).
As for the bold letters, personally, I like just linking to the proper forum instead...something like "This question should be answered in the Support forum. It's located here: http://.......". But, hey, that's personal preference. You're way's fine, too

bknust said:
I think this is also a good idea, primarily for those with stock phones or just performing basic procedures (e.g. rooting).
As for the bold letters, personally, I like just linking to the proper forum instead...something like "This question should be answered in the Support forum. It's located here: http://.......". But, hey, that's personal preference. You're way's fine, too
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No no, I don't mean bold letters to the people asking for help. I mean bold letters for the forum title so people know it's there. Support speaks louder than Q&A, especially with all the multilingual folks we have on here.

geokhentix said:
No no, I don't mean bold letters to the people asking for help. I mean bold letters for the forum title so people know it's there. Support speaks louder than Q&A, especially with all the multilingual folks we have on here.
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Oops! Sorry, misunderstood. Yes, that would be a very good way to filter out a lot of the basic stuff. Good idea!

nbs11 said:
I disagree with the 'only devs can post in the dev section' rule. While I would technically not be considered a dev (per se) because I do not know how to make a ROM I would still like to be able to post in that section things that are technically not ROMs but do not fit in general. For example, I created the Galaxy S unlocker for Mac, but I have not figured out how to make a ROM. Does that make me a developer or not?
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As far as I'm concerned, an unlocker for Mac does indeed belong in development with the current structure of xda. It's kind of one of those things that could go under Apps, but when I think of apps, I think of your standard user apps, not rooting/unlocking/ROM/etc. tools/hacks. Maybe there should be a forum strictly for ROM dev and a separate one for general system dev. To me, they are different. That's just how I see it, but I'm sure there are quite a few differing views on this.

A suggestion regarding this forum and 'questions' [POLL]

I've read a few threads here lately where someone asks as question and thereafter gets berated by the members who consider themselves developers for posting a question here. I can totally see their side of the argument since this is a development forum and it makes sense to keep the threads like "Help with my app code" separate from "OMGWFTBBQ!! How do I unbrick my XOOM???". Those people often refer to THE RULES saying it's against them to post questions here and to post in the General section.
I actually don't see that in the rules.
But maybe it should be. I am 'guilty' of posting a question or two here, and I even read the rules first to make sure it was the right place to post. I didn't see anything telling me not to, so I posted here, simply because I feel that the General forum section is for basic questions. In that context, I can see why people do post questions here.
So, I'd like to propose a solution that I think would make everyone happy, and would help clean up this section.
A "XOOM Hacking Help and Advanced XOOM Topics" subforum.
This would be a forum where people could ask all the questions and topics that aren't directly related to the actual development and coding process, but are more advance than most of the topics in the General XOOM subforum.
Would anyone else find this useful?
Also, devs, if there was a forum like this, would you be willing to drop in to answer questions? I know everyone here who is not a developer values your knowledge and helpful insight, which is why people ask questions here in the first place.
Thoughts?

Ive felt a bit of negativity too here. One issue is we don't have a q and a section yet. We are so early in the development cycle for the Xoom. We are building kernels and we don't even have SD slot drivers yet! This is the time for folks to kick back, relax, and enjoy their new toy. I freaking love my xoom! I am so excited for the future of this device. All the fun will come in due time. Relax guys!

I agree. I'm enjoying my XOOM a ton, and I actually visit this section more than any other because I love to see what the great minds here are cooking up for the community. But, I can understand their frustration. They're trying to get their bearings on a new device, but are also getting bombarded with questions that bury topics that are actually related to development. I also agree that some of them go overboard and should take a chill pill. It's not good to have someone get turned off from this forum and its benefits because a dev snapped at them for invading their domain and asking for help.

I voted NO. When there are enough Devs to populate this section, then it will be useful, until then you are only fragmenting the people that make up the community. Until then I would think it best that questions To the devs as well as by devs would be at home here. Many devices never even make it past this point.
I wonder how many people that have developed or are actually developing someting for the Xoom right now, have been the ones to try to enforce said non existent rules.

Yes if your willing to manage moving threads around, because for sure thats whats gonna happen
Generally NO though, In other XDA Development sub forums there are plenty of "OMG I bricked my ..." and plenty of useful developer help... since said bricking, etc usually comes along with installing someone bleeding edge hack.
I understand the want for purity but it will take strict enforcement!

No.
Having a Q&A forum would be nice though to separate all the little questions, especially those that get asked over and over and over..

Wow. Split poll data. lol.
So, I guess the 'devs' should just be nice. Fair enough. Maybe the rules should be updated to reflect what exactly is allowed and/or welcome in this forum.

"Doesn't sound like development to me."

Less than 10 posts

Hi, I\m a member for many months now and still cannot interact with the forum of my rom. They want at least 10 posts. What to do if I have nothing to say outside my rom? There are questions asked by people I would like to answer and cannot yet. This policy needs reconsideration - I think.

shennar said:
Hi, I\m a member for many months now and still cannot interact with the forum of my rom. They want at least 10 posts. What to do if I have nothing to say outside my rom? There are questions asked by people I would like to answer and cannot yet. This policy needs reconsideration - I think.
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Well...why not go through the Q&A section and answer people's questions? Thus getting 10 posts (without spamming, and by actively contributing to the community) and then you can answer/ask more questions. I partially agree that time could be a better indicator of whether or not someone should be allowed to post in the development section, but there has to be some system by which the forums can be free of 'how do I install this ROM' questions or similarly stupid questions which could be answered by using the search function.
Speaking of the search function, I think there is a thread about this in the 'about XDA-Developers' or 'General' section

or at least allow selective forum access. I need the thread of HD2 Boypcc Nand roms.

OK you win on this. I didn't search for this specific. I searched now, found some similar complaints but not very much like my viewpoint.
About searching, in fact I searched and read and learned too too much (and donated) without asking a single question yet. To post in generic forums I'd love to, but I don't see really serious stuff (for me) to discuss outside ROM. OK 6 down 4 to go

I agree. The policy might need reconsideration but it is not really important though. 10 posts are mighty easy to achieve. Try answering questions in the QnA thread. However, if you really are unaware of how to solve member's problems and queries, you can always hang around and have some fun in the off topic thread. In that way, you will be able to achieve your target. Its not exactly how you might want your first 10 posts, but if you get to interact with your forum,then you will be able to gain more knowledge and a better understanding. Then you can truly start helping people after that.

kawshigan said:
I agree. The policy might need reconsideration but it is not really important though. 10 posts are mighty easy to achieve. Try answering questions in the QnA thread. However, if you really are unaware of how to solve member's problems and queries, you can always hang around and have some fun in the off topic thread. In that way, you will be able to achieve your target. Its not exactly how you might want your first 10 posts, but if you get to interact with your forum,then you will be able to gain more knowledge and a better understanding. Then you can truly start helping people after that.
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OK OK gentlemen, I did, I found 3 questions to answer and did. Now this is post 10 , lets see if done yet.

shennar said:
OK you win on this. I didn't search for this specific. I searched now, found some similar complaints but not very much like my viewpoint.
About searching, in fact I searched and read and learned too too much (and donated) without asking a single question yet. To post in generic forums I'd love to, but I don't see really serious stuff (for me) to discuss outside ROM. OK 6 down 4 to go
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Lol well obviously you didn't ask questions, otherwise you would have more posts
But I respect having no posts but having a membership for a year (and actually using the forums) much more than having 5billion useless posts without having helped anyone.

thread closed because is not related to HD2 Android ... for further information please go here. Regards,
12's tutorial on how to get your postcount above 10:
Keep in mind that only people we the genuine intent to post one of their developmental projects or with a (well explained) bug report NEED a postcount above 10. Nonetheless I'll give you some guidelines on how to achieve this goal in a community accepted way:
Read the stickies in About xda-developers.com
Read this thread
Read the stickies in Questions and Answers, ask a question there about the site or anything general should anything be unclear to you
Try to answer 2 or 3 questions there
Read the stickies in your forum for your favorite device
If you have any news on the device post it in general
If you have any questions about a hack, app, ROM or theme pop into that thread and ask a question or leave a message
Check out your device specific Questions and Answers (if it has one, otherwise check out General). With everything you have learned so far you should well be able to help a few more people there
.
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This forum is a mess....

Guys this forum is a disaster, that single topic with like 2000 posts in it is ridiculous.
There needs to be more organization and breaking out of things into easier to digest and read.
Someone needs to LOCK that existing thread and force people to start new ones.
Am I the only one who thinks this?

Nope, I totally agree with you. It's really hard to find any info if it's not being discussed right now.

Welcome, newbie!
There's a good historical reason for that thread. It grew to well beyond 1000 pages before there even was an Android Auto forum, when it was the only place in common for discussing that type of unit.
Feel free to contribute to the wiki, and point people with common questions in that direction.
(And no, it doesn't need to be locked. Learn to use search)

I agree on the historical reason for it, but right now we have a whole section dedicated to Android Head Units. Maybe the thread doesn't need to be locked, but people do need to start creating different threads for issues and wuations and whatnot. It's really hard most of the time to find a solution to something on such a long thread (even using search).

I agree that one thread has all the solution but it scattered all over the place.

Having one thread for each product does not work well since your question can easily get buried by a few responses to some other question. The thread should be locked and a sticky created that links to specific posts/wiki entries or new threads.

No, that thread covers all the Hui-Fei type units, which share the same firmware images. The differences are minor. If you're looking for something, check the wiki first (the very first link in that thread!). If you don't find it there spend some time searching the thread and when you do find it, add it to the wiki.
The problem is not the thread, it's with people too lazy to take the time to search ("oh, instead of taking 5 or 10 minutes to search, it will only take me 1 minute to ask a question which has been asked 100 times before and get other people to do the work for me"). If all the posts which didn't trim what they were quoting, and all the posts asking things which had already been answered were removed, that thread would only be 1/4 the size. The thread isn't the problem, lazy people are.

I don't think the forum is a mess but I do think that some of the more popular head units do warrant their own sub forums.
I've just ordered a carpad for example and have had a fair go at reading most of that thread but it's not easy.
There are certain topics within that thread that would be easier to follow and encourage better collaboration if they were separate threads within a sub forum.
The search is all well and good but it's not great if you don't know what you don't know!