Database Users

Just had a live demo of the HTC Magic and now considering getting one!

Hi all,
I am at the end of my contract term with T-mobile and was potentially waiting for the Compact V (HTC Dimond 2) or the N97 or Iphone 3GS, currently have a Nokia 5800 which was bought on PAYG.
I went past a vodafone shop in town and played with the HTC Magic they had on display and it was really fantastic! I was really suprised how smooth the WEB experience was, the screen was super sharp. I tried typing a text message and the keyboard seemed alot better to use then the Nokia 5800 with a built in spell checked (5800 doesnt have that).
So what do you guys think of the HTC Magic? I can get the phone free on a £30 a month tarrif with 600min and unlimited text which is a pretty good deal.
My main usage for my phone is Music (a2dp) at the Gym and WEB browsing and email. Oh and also as an alarm clock to wake me up (which is actually VERY important!).
I really like the way that Nokia have the today screen which shows Calendar appointments but i dont think this is possible on the HTC Magic right?
Any comments or recommendation would be greatly appreciated

If you use Gmail as your main email account, then the email experience on Android is as good as it gets. If you use something else, then the email experience on Android is pretty second rate. Not horrible, but definitely not among the best experiences out there.
The Web Browser is great, on par with iPhone and Palm Pre. I've got no complaints, just don't expect to watch videos other than YouTube because the browser doesn't support Flash yet.
The music player is pretty bare-bones but I don't have any complaints about it. It obviously doesn't have robust desktop syncing software like iTunes or Zune Marketplace, but if you're just listening to albums and simple playlists then it gets the job done just fine. Just keep in mind that you're going to have to supply your own storage for music. I got a 16gb card for about US$50. Vodaphone may include a memory card with their version, I'm not sure, I'm using the unlocked Google version in the US.
The A2DP compatibility, in my experience, has been really great with a newer set of headphones. When I tried to pair it to an older set (about 3 years old) I had a really bad experience, it was difficult to pair and playing music through them rendered the rest of the system nearly unusably slow. I'm honestly not sure what the difference is between them, so your mileage may vary on A2DP depending on the headphones you're using.
The virtual keyboard is pretty great, I've seen a few reviewers who think it's better than the iPhone, so it's definitely about as good as it's going to get right now. I think the screen is a tad too small to use the vertical keyboard comfortably, but the horizontal keyboard (available almost everywhere except the home screen) is fantastic. It's also super-easy to teach the automatic spell checker new words, just type it in and long-press on the word until the "Saved" message pops up.
Just keep in mind that getting an Android phone without a physical keyboard means certain applications aren't going to work, including a lot of games and game system emulators that require more buttons.
The alarm clock is fine, the speaker is nice and loud and you can set multiple alarm times.
There is an included widget for the Home screen that shows your next calendar appointment, but as far as I know there isn't one that shows multiple upcoming appointments yet. There may be something in the Market, I haven't checked.
Overall, I love mine. I don't have considerable experience with any of the other devices you're considering, but I think you really can't go wrong with the Magic, especially if you're a Gmail user.

thanks for the info, i have a few more questions.
Does the alarm vibrate? As in can you make the device vibrate while playing the alarm?
With Nokia devices, you can set the alarm and turn the phone off and the phone will come on automatically, can this be done with the HTC Magic?
The next question is quite important. I am a GMAIL user however, at present, i sync my 5800 with two Outlook accounts. My home outlook is used to store my contacts (i guess the device will sync this with google contacts) and my work outlook is used to sync work calender appointments. I have read about some issues with syncing outlooking, so can my work laptop be synced automatically with google calendar and thus getting the appointments on my Magic?
Are there any turn by turn navigation softwares out for the HTC Magic? I guess this isnt a deal breaker but would be nice to have some navigation
Oh, one last thing, my Nokia 5800's browser vibrates slightly everytime a URL is clicked, can this featuure be present on the HTC Magic?
Thanks
-c

You can easily sync your Outlook Calendar to Google Calendar (2-way if you want) with the Google Calendar Sync tool.

chefgon said:
There is an included widget for the Home screen that shows your next calendar appointment, but as far as I know there isn't one that shows multiple upcoming appointments yet. There may be something in the Market, I haven't checked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I have checked, and there is only QuickCalendar that, while nice, is far from being a complete solution.
The lack of possibility to show upcoming appointments on Home screen is what still keep me away from Magic, otherwise a great device.
Sad thing is that I read quite a few people, most coming from Windows Mobile, missing this very same feature.
It should be implemented by default, but nonetheless I would pay to have it and get a Magic.

ceanth said:
thanks for the info, i have a few more questions.
Does the alarm vibrate? As in can you make the device vibrate while playing the alarm?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, you can make it vibrate with the alarm if you want to.
With Nokia devices, you can set the alarm and turn the phone off and the phone will come on automatically, can this be done with the HTC Magic?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It goes off when the phone is on silent. Not sure about turned off though.
Are there any turn by turn navigation softwares out for the HTC Magic? I guess this isnt a deal breaker but would be nice to have some navigation
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes there are free ones in the Market. Try AndNav (and AndNav2) and Nav4All.
Oh, one last thing, my Nokia 5800's browser vibrates slightly everytime a URL is clicked, can this featuure be present on the HTC Magic?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. The browser has a lot of settings but that isn't one of them!

yes it has widgets for weather calender stock etc that you can download from the android market and put on your homescreen...but if you want to get the best out of your magic..root and put the superhero rom on it..it has a flash player, multitouch (yes pinch zooming like the iphone), custom htc widgets that look brilliant, great music player (alot better than the default android one and much more

Are you still considering this phone ?
You can get, I think, a cheaper offer if you get it online.
Also note that this phone has only 192Mb of RAM compared to unbranded HTC Magic that has 288Mb of it!
This could severly impact the Sense UI if it ever comes out for this phone.
Non-Sense UI ROMs run very nice, though...
You can have the alarm vibrate.
But it looks like it doesn't work when the phone is off, which is a real shame!
Aniello

ceanth said:
My main usage for my phone is Music (a2dp) at the Gym and WEB browsing and email. Oh and also as an alarm clock to wake me up (which is actually VERY important!).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Be aware that Vodafone currently has a 500Mb Fair Use Policy on their 'unlimited' internet package, which makes using it for streaming music somewhat impractical

Thouhts about my first android phone

Hi,
I would like to post my feelings about my first experience with an android phone.
I bought the Samsung Galaxy S 4 days ago and I spent a decent time to play with it.
My background : I had the HTC P3600 and then HTC Diamond, HTC HD Mini and Iphone 3GS
As you can see I am a fan of HTC and I switched to iphone just because my company gave it to me.
I used to flash my winphone often in order to get the last update and some customisation.
My iphone had the same treatment
Now regarding the Samsung I must confess I bought this one and not the HTC desire because it was not available on Optus. That's the main reason
And I must confess that for the moment I am higghly disapointed by Samsung and/or android but maybe you could help me to change that
Of course the screen is awesome and the possibility to put easily a divx file and watch is really nice ( I never watched anything with my iphone I prefered to use my archos5)
But the following issues are for me quite annyoing and also I must confess surprising to me :
* the amount of lag. It is not smooth at all for instance when you scroll the app page ( not as smooth as the iphone). I have plenty of delay when I open a mail, when I open facebook, when I open the market, when I use the "go back" button ...
Fortunately this is a 1Ghz cpu !! What would be the result with a slower one ???
* The mail app is not working at all and that's the main issue for me !!! I never had any issue with my mail on windows mobile or iphone. My company is using exchange 2003 and I can't get my mail most of the time. Sometime it works and in this case you can be sure that switching from wifi to 3g or the opposite is going to screw the sync. So I have to reboot, swithc off the wifi ... or even to remove my account and recreate it.
I tested touchdown application so I am sure that the problem comes from the default mail app ( is it samsung or android ?? I don't know)
For the moment I have not been able to get my appointment on the calendar ( I get the one from facebook or gmail but not from exchange)
* Samsung kies ... works only on some desktop / OS ?? I can make it work on my home PC ( vista 64 ) but not at my office ( vista 32) because of a MTP failed error. Looks like it is a godd replacement for itunes .... same crap .. .even worst maybe
*the battery is a joke. I am not using GPS, bluetooth, push, smart backlight ( it is at the minimum) and I try to switch on the wifi as often as possible and it doesn't last a business day ( meaning 8-10 hours).
With the iphonhe or the HTC HD Mini I never had this kind of issue.
Ok I took the phone with one of the biggest screen ... but it is also one of the biggest so the battery could be well sized don't you think ??
The worst thing is when I switch off everything except 3G during the night ... I used to do that with my iphone and lose only 5-10% of battery overnight. With the samsung it is more around 30-40% !! So if I forget one day my plug ... I can forget about using my phone
* minor issues : facebook is crap compared to iphone ( i tested both the samsung app and the android one)
The lack of app is quite annoying. I didn't find anything similar for the moment to FSteam or Sydney Tripview which were 2 of the most used app for me ( tripview is the one I used everyday)
Now I want to keep on trying and thinking that Android could be good.
I have started to download some app like touchdown to back up the flaw of the samsung OS but seriously ... paying 20$ just to get my mail is something I don't get. Funny thing ... I wouldn't mind to pay 20$ for touchdown is the default mail app was working fine just because it add a lot of nice feature. But in this case i would first pay just to be able to see my mail ...
Anyway ... I will keep on digging and trying to fine tune the phone.
I have already flashed twice the phone ( JG1 and JFF) which fix some issues ( but not all the lag ...)
I have already charged my phone completely 4 or 5 times ( in 4 days ...) so the battery should be at its maximum now ... I will see if it's better
Am I the only one who feel that way ?
I really want to conclude at the end that android is better than the iphone but for the moment I must confess I can't and it makes me sad
cheers
Nicolas

I've had my sgs for only about a week but I think i can comment on some of these points.
I thought the lag issue with touchwiz was fixed by the latest firmware? For now just changing to launcher pro and using an auto-kill feature with a taskmanager will fix the issue. It is pathetic imo and the phone shouldn't have been released this way.
Yes kies is a bit unstable and just connecting to a new pc in any way can be a pain sometimes, hopefully samsung will fix this.
My phone says it's been unplugged for 9:28hrs and I'm at 90% battery. It was idling with wifi on. That's pretty good, I use a static wallpaper and use a taskmanager with autokill feature since I was ending up with waaay to many open apps. People keep saying android manages that automatically but my phone gets laggy and low on memory.
The samsung facebook app is crap but what's wrong with the one from the market?
It could be a great phone but right now it's definitely still an unfinished product, but I believe it can and will be fixed in the coming weeks or months.

Well, I am kind of like you: I had an HTC Trinity and an iPhone 3G and 3Gs.
I liked the iPhone, but wanted Flash and got fed up with Steve Jobs' arrogance.
So I paid almost $800 for the 16gb Galaxy S.
Android has come a long way, but 2.1 is definitely not as elegant or as smooth as iOS.
The devil (and Jobs) is in the detail, and the Apple product is almost perfect, and very user friendly. My wife took one look at my Android screen and declared it ugly. And, sadly, the design of the icons, the visual continuity between screens, and the smooth operation of iOS, are just not in Android. Yet, hopefully.
Similarly with of the apps in the Market. Many are poorly designed, compared to the majority of what's in the App Store.
Having said that, I am actually enjoying my Galaxy S. It has a really gorgeous screen. It has much better integration with both Google Voice, and with Phone.com (which I use)
For email, I installed the open source k-9 email client, which, while lacking some visual finesse, is more functional than the regular email client. Get it from here: http://handheld.softpedia.com/get/Internet-Utilities/Email/K9-Android-71552.shtml (it's newer version than in the Market).
I expect Android 3.0 to be on par, and hopefully better, than iOS.

For the battery I will do a precise test tonight and see what happens after one night idle but your experience ( 90% after 9hours) would be good to me !!
Finger crossed
I will try app like autokiller but I think I have to root my phone ?? As I said I am a newbie for android andI don;t know yet how to do ( it looks like it can be done through odin)
For K-9 I already had a look at it but I think it's only ofr IMAP and POP3 and not for microsoft exchange ??
The default mail app is actually working fine for my hotmail account. I only have problem with the exchange account
This afternoon again I amanged to received 2-3 and when I go the notification I went directly to the app to sync .... " impossible to connect to the server "
EDIT : an other drawback compared to all my other phone : how to correct a typo on a text without a trackball or arrows in the keyboard ?? Answer : by touching the screen 10 times until you reach the correct position ... Nicely done
I was the first one to say that the iphone was crap , that it couldn't handle flash or mms ... but android can't even get my mail !!!
Regarding Touchdown I thought it was the perfect app and I just got an example where the iphone works better. When you forward an HTML mail with an array it is either as an attachment ( crap !!) or you can edit in line and have it in ther mail but you lose the format of the array ... I can tell you that my boss ( a real apple fanboy) was very glad to show me this
For Facebook ... I must confess I spent more time this afternoon on the default one and it's OK. The issue with the Samsung one is that it is continously loading data. When you switch from Home to profille and back to home for instance.
I really think too that this phone could be really good but it is clearly for the geek only. If you take it out of the box it is a real crap.

nicoloco said:
I will try app like autokiller but I think I have to root my phone ??...........
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No need to root, just use Task Manager from the market it has an autokill feature.

task manager installed ... there are heaps of task manager
I took the one released by apollo software and I might test also the one released by rhythm software ...

I'm not going to troll, so please dont feel bad about my opinion, but for me it looks like you just didnt read enough before you bought your phone, to get to know your upcoming gadget, everyone have to put a lot more effort in gathering intel.
I'd say the prevention of this problem is quite simple: think before you spend your money, so you can spare a lot of tears and painful hours for yourself. I switched from iPhone 3G to Galaxy S and I am definitely happy with it. Lags gone with the update, all the functions I use are good to me - only thing I had to do is rooting cuz hungary doesnt have the full Android Market either, like Finland.

I see what you mean but I have read a lot of reviews before I bought it and honestly when you look at the phones I had there were always bad comments on the reviews but I used to be able to workaround it. Maybe I will be also able to do the same here
Now as I said my main issues are the problem with exchange, the connection from my work desktop to kies or WM11
I am not sure I could have read somewhere that kies would work for my home desktop but not my work desktop ?
Or that the default mail app would not work with exchange and that I would have to pay 20$ just to get mails. And espcially the fact that the connection would be random.
The battery when you read the review is the same for all the smartphone, something like : not great battery but can last 1 day. It was the same for the iphone or all my other phone. But in my case it far from lasting one day even with everything switched off
For the lag, I knew that the out of the box Rom was not working fine but I expected better from the last Rom. It's better but not as good as an other phone with slower cpu
The only thing that I didn't know when I bought the samsung and that I could have known is the lack of trackball to correct a typo. I found this information only yesterday in a review.
but one more time I see what you means ... and I must confess I have been quite motivated by my frustration of apple ( and itune) and my colleague who has a desire working fine

I use the default mail app for exchange and imap. Works wonderfully for me. I get my contacts / calendar / mail from exchange and a few more email acc on imap servers.
To move the cursor you can press and hold the 123 button in the normal keyboard to get arrows to move the cursor (not found a way to do that with the swype keyboard)

For swype... Just swipe between the swype key and the symbol key for arrows, home/end, select/copy/paste etc. works well and is pretty quick.
Do you have the correct admin privileges at work?
Crabby

To the OP, It's ok to be critical, fanboys do nothing but make companies lazy, just look at Apple for example. I say ***** until it's as good as it could possibly be. In the end it's good for everyone
And thanks for the 'Hold the 123 button' trick! One more annoyance solved.

nicoloco said:
task manager installed ... there are heaps of task manager
I took the one released by apollo software and I might test also the one released by rhythm software ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The one from rhythm software looks nicer and is easier to use imo.

About the lags- Flashing to a new firmware reduces the problem, and there's already a solution my MoDaCo.
I just hope samsung implements it in the next firmware.
Either way, the lag problem is not here to stay, we're going to get rid of it soon.
About the battery-
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=716197
After doing some charges/discharges and starting regular use with it, i have to say the battery life is better than any smartphone i had.

About the battery drainage, make sure you go to "About Phone" in the settings menu and check the "Battery use". It will show you what has been using the most battery, and time since you unplugged the phone. My phone drains about 2% overnight in about 8 hours, and when I'm using it it's only really the display and the cell tower that's drawing power, applications shouldn't be consuming huge amounts of power, say above 8-10% unless you really use it a lot. The other day I noticed my phone had drained more battery than usual for some reason and it showed browser at 25% although I hadn't used it much. Make sure you don't have hung applications draining power! The Task Killer should help a lot here

Honestly. As a T-mobile G1 owner, a long time Android user, an Apple hater and someone who is considering purchasing the T-Mobile USA version of this phone soon, I have to admit that I can see where nicoloco is coming from. You expect some things to just work. Although I can understand the need to root my old G1 and use hacks and task managers to enhance its performance, it seem ridiculous that someone need to hack and use task managers to make a state of the art phone with a 1GH processor and 512MB of system memory work without a lag. This means that something is truly wrong! The fact that you need to keep killing processes to make sure you won't drain your battery is a huge problem of Android. You know what, perhaps Apple knows what it's doing with it's solution to multitasking.
I guess you can't have your cake and eat it too.

You DO understand it's a 2.5 week old phone and still has some "childhood problems", right?
Even the Nexus one was a bit of a troublemaker at the start, untill google took care of the various problems that popped up.
Give it a month or so, i bet you'll see those slips disappearing one by one.

nicoloco said:
Hi,
* The mail app is not working at all and that's the main issue for me !!! I never had any issue with my mail on windows mobile or iphone. My company is using exchange 2003 and I can't get my mail most of the time. Sometime it works and in this case you can be sure that switching from wifi to 3g or the opposite is going to screw the sync. So I have to reboot, swithc off the wifi ... or even to remove my account and recreate it.
I tested touchdown application so I am sure that the problem comes from the default mail app ( is it samsung or android ?? I don't know)
For the moment I have not been able to get my appointment on the calendar ( I get the one from facebook or gmail but not from exchange)
cheers
Nicolas
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why sync is working in the Windows Mobile phones but not in the Android phones?
The reason might be licensing. The Exchange mail protocol is propietary by Microsoft. If you like to sync, you have to pay for it. WinMo and iPhone in these days are used by corporate users, those phones include the Exchange license.
There are fewer Android users which need Exchange sync, why to pay, if you don't use? If you need it, you buy the software for syncing.

WOW, I have the Nexus One and my phone is blazing fast, I'm kinda worried about getting the Samsung Vibrant now.
The Facebook app is not the same as the stock Nexus One ? I know most of the Countries outside the US do not have most of the apps the US does and I'm thinking maybe that's why you can't get a good facebook app.
Sorry but pretty UI's and cute transition screens are for girls lol I'll take function any day .
How many time have you charged the phone so far ? your not going to get full performance untill after 4 or so charges.
You also have to remember THIS IS NOT APPLE, Android is an open source platform, any Tom **** or Harry can publish an app, 1 badly written app can kill you battery in 3 hours, you have to make sure you only download highly rated apps and also read the comments, some apps work on some phones better than others.
Thy to press the back button instead of the home button, the back button is more likely to close an app and the home button is more likely to keep the app open.
Turn off "sync data in background" this sync's data like weather, Market place, GPS and things like that, if your not using it turn it off.
Download a 2G/3G switch turn off 3G if your not on the net or downloading something, that's the 2nd biggest battery drainer, especially if you have a weak 3G signal.
Doing all this should gain you at least 8 hours more
Not doing this on my Nexus One running 2.2 I get 10 hours.
Doing this I get 20-28 hours.

For swype... Just swipe between the swype key and the symbol key for arrows, home/end, select/copy/paste etc. works well and is pretty quick.
Do you have the correct admin privileges at work?
Crabby
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure to understand ? What is the symobl key for arrows ?
On my side I have read more carefully the tutorial for the swype and have found some good tip I didn't know ( like double tap on a word to change it). It's definitely a very fast way to write a text or even a long mail.
Yes I have all the privilege at work. I can install whatever I wnat ( even wow ) and do almost anything.
For the classic keyboard .. .thamks for the tip of 123 !!! it's actually the same that what I had on my HTC HD Mini and works well
I use the default mail app for exchange and imap. Works wonderfully for me. I get my contacts / calendar / mail from exchange and a few more email acc on imap servers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lucky you !! Maybe not the same exchange server model ( 2003 ? 2007 ?)
Yesterday I got some mail coming again from the exchange server. I think it's when I was connected to the plug before I select the kind of usb connection I wanted !!
Anyway I have 30 days ( touchdown trial) to find a way to make it work fine
The one from rhythm software looks nicer and is easier to use imo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will try this one as I didn't like the one from apollo. I wonder why it shows me so many open app like video player, feeds and updates, navigation .... I never open them since the last reboot. Is there some automatic start for such app ??
WinMo and iPhone in these days are used by corporate users
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dear Elisa ... I guess this is a troll ?? I remember not so long time ago where everybody said that winmo and blackberry are for corporate and iphone for girls and fanboy. Iphone is clearly not designed at the beginning for the corporate user. Especially for the first version of iphone. And yet the synchronisation always worked fine for me
In my company we are 1000 and I can tell you that only the syndey office ( 10 people) got the iphone as we are quite isolated and we can do what things differently. The rest are using only BB or Windows mobile.
Anyway, some people manage to get the sync working with android without paying so your point is not very solid.
As as I said, touchdown is so much nicer than the default app that I wouldn't care to buy it. But right now I am just asking for the basic feature ... just get my mail.
By the way, I didn;t find a way to ask the default app to sync the inbox and some other subfolder ?? Something that I used to do with the winphone, the iphone and can be done with touchdown. Do you know if this is possible ?
One last thing ... how the developper who did this app could have done such a crappy way to handle the inbox tree ??? It transfomed my tree of folder in a flat list ordered alphabetically. How dumb it is !!! So the subfolder of one folder ar e not next to each other ... I will have to change the naming ( put 1,2,3 at the beginning of the folder I guess)
Now for the battery ...
As I said I already did 4/5 full recharge of the battery ( it's kind of quick with a phone which last only few hours )
This morning I have a full battery, no wifi, no push, minimum backlight, no crappy app ....
My phone is unplugged for 2h20 now and it has 80% of battery with 55% coming from the screen (screen switched on 39mn)
Is it the kind of consumption that you have ??
Then 12% from the cell phone and 11%(2h20) from the music (14mn)
I guess I can save some battergy by switching off the 3G
I will see in few battery cycle how it evolves
To conclude on my feeling, if I could have the mail working perfectly , the connection to my computer wokring and the battery lasting a little bit longer I would be already quite happy with my phone.

nicoloco said:
Dear Elisa ... I guess this is a troll ?? I remember not so long time ago where everybody said that winmo and blackberry are for corporate and iphone for girls and fanboy. Iphone is clearly not designed at the beginning for the corporate user. Especially for the first version of iphone. And yet the synchronisation always worked fine for me
In my company we are 1000 and I can tell you that only the syndey office ( 10 people) got the iphone as we are quite isolated and we can do what things differently. The rest are using only BB or Windows mobile.
Anyway, some people manage to get the sync working with android without paying so your point is not very solid.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The situation varies through the Globe. Here in Finland where the Nokia has been the biggest in many companies, but in these days many companies uses iPhone (it is easy). We have almost 50 000 employees worldwide and the iPhone is now permitted in our Exchange server,too. WinMo has been allowed in years, but it is... Because of the Android 2.1 and earlier doesn't complete all the security issues in the Exchange, so it is rejected and no one can connect Android's to our Exchange server. This is the real life in the bigger companies.
The Froyo will upgrade this:
- Improved security with the addition of numeric pin or alpha-numeric password options to unlock device. Exchange administrators can enforce password policy across devices.
- Remote wipe: Exchange administrators can remotely reset the device to factory defaults to secure data in case device is lost or stolen.
- Exchange Calendars are now supported in the Calendar application.
- Auto-discovery: you just need to know your user-name and password to easily set up and sync an Exchange account (available for Exchange 2007 and higher).
- Global Address Lists look-up is now available in the Email application, enabling users to auto-complete recipient names from the directory.

Switch to Android or stick with WinMo? Reasons for and against...

Now most of us including myself have had the opportunity to try out the Android rom on our HD2, I was wondering if anyone was going to jump ship to Android or stick with WinMo on the HD2. I know there are already a couple of polls/threads on this subject matter but I thought it was about time somone listed the pros and cons for each OS and HD2.
Below I have listed what I believe to be the positives and negatives are (from my experience):
Android - Good Points
Fantastic app store selection
Refreshing UI from WinMo
Dedicated constant Google Android only apps
720p HD video recording (possible)
Compass Street View in Google Maps
ROM upgradeable OTA
Customisable
Good notifaction bar
Facebook/Twitter/Flicker Contacts intergration
My Location always works
Auto update notifications for installed apps
Better Youtube app with ability to view/leave comments
Live widgets
Live Wallpaper
Flash support in web browser
HTML and images displayed in email straight away with no "Download images" as per WinMO
Android - Bad Points
No Secure Box/Private SMS storage
Only 7 homescreens (possible 9 with 3rd party launchers)
Multiple email accounts not easily accessable from one screen
Poorer weather animations/transitions
No dedicated app exit button
No Face down Speaker Phone activation
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Windows Mobile - Good Points
13-18 homescreens
Weather Wallpaper
Excellent Secure SMS box
Customisable Home Screen/Tody view (Cookie's Home tab)
Access to several email accounts from Mail tab
Smoother weather animations
Animated photo and music landscape transitions/coverflo views
Document tab
Excellent developer community
Various roms - 6.5, 6.5.3, 6.5.5
Better office support
Windows Mobile - Bad Points
My Location rarely works
Inconsistant looking icons for apps
Old UI hidden under Sense
Can crash and freeze
Phone slows down when Twitter tab updates
Frustrating HTC keyboard
No flash support in browser
Internet Data Connection prone to freezing and stalling
Any other good or bad points? Will you switch?

a number one reason for sticking with hd2 for many people including myself has been its hardware, its 4.3 inches amazing screen. however, having just seen this http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/htcs-4-3-inch-desire-hd-shows-up-on-video/ - upcoming HTC Desire HD with Android 2.2, i think that would no longer be the case. HTC Desire HD is arguably the successor of HTC Desire. I wonder what HTC has up its sleeves as a successor of HD2

Sorry to say this, but a lot of the WinMo reasons are invalid since a lot of the reasons are down to HTC i.e. Weather Animations, Secure Inbox, Home screens, etc. These run on top of WinMo. WinMo by itself is a legacy operating system that HTC have dressed up really good.

the only reason, it gets normal updates, it is open source and it developes every day to be good OS(and it has full potential to be best OS) but in case of winmo only minor changes from build to build like changing **** , did you ever think what is changed from build for example 23531 till 23569 com 5 or even compared to wm 6.5 219** builds ? almost nothing... but u see many changes from android 1.6 till the latest 2.2
P.S just want to mention that i'm not kind of guy who hate win mo just i need something new, something that has some new words to say...

TonyCubed said:
Sorry to say this, but a lot of the WinMo reasons are invalid since a lot of the reasons are down to HTC i.e. Weather Animations, Secure Inbox, Home screens, etc. These run on top of WinMo. WinMo by itself is a legacy operating system that HTC have dressed up really good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe I did not make it clearer but I meant to stick to WinMo on the HD2. Afterall this is a HD2 forum and we users own one. Therefore, HD2, WinMo and Sense are seen as all in one in this thread.

I really enjoyed the Android OS, but it didn't have push HoTMaiL and it didn't truely sync all of my exchange server data (calendar and contacts) without a 3rd party paid app.
For those two reasons alone, I have to side with HTC and WinMo.

tboy2000 said:
Now most of us including myself have had the opportunity to try out the Android rom on our HD2, I was wondering if anyone was going to jump ship to Android or stick with WinMo on the HD2. I know there are already a couple of polls/threads on this subject matter but I thought it was about time somone listed the pros and cons for each OS and HD2.
Below I have listed what I believe to be the positives and negatives are (from my experience):
Android - Good Points
Fantastic app store selection
Refreshing UI from WinMo
Dedicated constant Google Android only apps
720p HD video recording (possible)
Compass Street View in Google Maps
ROM upgradeable OTA
Customisable
Good notifaction bar
Facebook/Twitter/Flicker Contacts intergration
My Location always works
Auto update notifications for installed apps
Better Youtube app with ability to view/leave comments
Live widgets
Live Wallpaper
Flash support in web browser
Android - Bad Points
No Secure Box/Private SMS storage
Only 7 homescreens (possible 9 with 3rd party launchers)
Multiple email accounts not easily accessable from one screen
Poorer weather animations/transitions
No dedicated app exit button
No Face down Speaker Phone activation
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Windows Mobile - Good Points
13-18 homescreens
Weather Wallpaper
Excellent Secure SMS box
Customisable Home Screen/Tody view (Cookie's Home tab)
Access to several email accounts from Mail tab
Smoother weather animations
Animated photo and music landscape transitions/coverflo views
Document tab
Excellent developer community
Various roms - 6.5, 6.5.3, 6.5.5
Better office support
Windows Mobile - Bad Points
My Location rarely works
Inconsistant looking icons for apps
Old UI hidden under Sense
Can crash and freeze
Phone slows down when Twitter tab updates
Frustrating HTC keyboard
No flash support in browser
Any other good or bad points? Will you switch?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Another great reason that Windows Mobile >>> Android is the fact that you can use bluetooth keyboards to type office documents!
There is no way to do this on Android currently...

Added point no hidden virus in wm apps. I am on the fence right now to be honest, I dont like the closed nature of WP7 but dont want OS designer to be able to remotely remove apps from my phone either, as well as I really dont want to have to worry about what the app is doing in the background like the last "music app" that would send sms to a premier site either

zelendel said:
Added point no hidden virus in wm apps. I am on the fence right now to be honest, I dont like the closed nature of WP7 but dont want OS designer to be able to remotely remove apps from my phone either, as well as I really dont want to have to worry about what the app is doing in the background like the last "music app" that would send sms to a premier site either
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great point there zelendel nice catch!
Even when I had an iPhone before I really appreciated how Apple tested the apps before they allowed them on the market to make sure they weren't malicious...

only thing I liked about android was the web browser with full? flash support.
Otherwise, i didn't see it being any faster than my hd2 on nrgz ROM, and it looks too much like the IOS for me.
I'm waiting to see what second generation wp7 looks like before I decide on my next device. I have a while before upgrading anyways.

zelendel said:
Added point no hidden virus in wm apps. I am on the fence right now to be honest, I dont like the closed nature of WP7 but dont want OS designer to be able to remotely remove apps from my phone either, as well as I really dont want to have to worry about what the app is doing in the background like the last "music app" that would send sms to a premier site either
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what about the international calling "virus" on the 3d terrorist game?
Lookout mobile security is free though for those who want to protect their phone.

good article..its only been a couple of months for myself and im still getting use to winmo. i love the hardware specs which was the main reason i brought the hd2. im still using stock rom which im very happy with .i do get the occasional freezes plus battery life is really frustrating..i havent tried out any of the chef roms as of yet i have seen them on youtube are they more stable? but android seems exciting im gonna stick for the time being until i get bored of winmo and let android develop and a stable port comes along ..last thing how do you get up to 13-18 homescreens.

Exchange
Exchange still not FULLY supported in Android - Tasks anyone?
(at least this was the case a few weeks ago)

Added new positive for Android - the ability to see images in emails on first download of email without the need to download images seperately as in WinMo. That has been a BIG frustration for many WinMo users.

Moschino02 said:
..last thing how do you get up to 13-18 homescreens.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually 19 tabs at last count...
1. Home
2. People
3. SMS
4. Mail
5. Internet
6. Photos & Videos
7. Music
8. Calendar
9. Stocks
10. Footprints
11. Twitter
12. Weather
13. Settings
14. eReader
15. Facebook
16. TV
17. Radio
18. Call History
19. Programs
Any other tab I missed?
The latter tabs are either on custom roms or cab installed.

The only 2 things i prefter with Androide is the app store and Flash, but i will absolutly stick with WinMo because it can be customized to your taste and use better then with Androide.
And the best Androide apps you have to paie for, so im staying on WinMo!

I have spent a good deal of time
I have spent a good deal of time in the Android HD2 development section and have installed various builds and played in the speed race. Besides the obvious questions about how to install and make it work, almost all of the questions are people wanting to figure out how to get it to do what and how they used to do it in WinMo. They are "how to get Android to be WinMo" questions. I think that speaks a lot for itself.
Lots of apps, but many very flaky.
WinMo needs a Titanium Backup! Very easy to recover from version changes.
Not very good TV apps for the US.
Android voice recognition is much better for search etc, but the new Bing Nav is just as good.
I will probably use both as it boots in less than a minute. The best of both worlds.

tboy2000 said:
Added new positive for Android - the ability to see images in emails on first download of email without the need to download images seperately as in WinMo. That has been a BIG frustration for many WinMo users.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thing is, we're lucky over here on O2 with unlimited downloads, but many countries charge extautionate rates for data use, so which makes more sense? Download all those images straight away and run up your data bill or give you the email so you can then decide to download the attachments or not?

If i will install Android on my HTC HD2, will i be able to use Android supported software like Skype, Nimbuzz etc. Also what about games for Android on my HTC HD2?

MumbleHero said:
If i will install Android on my HTC HD2, will i be able to use Android supported software like Skype, Nimbuzz etc. Also what about games for Android on my HTC HD2?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes, while booted into android, you can use all android apps. You have marketplace and everything. These boots are not rooted though, but there are instructions for that here as well.

Dad's not happy

Hi there,
my dad sold his iPhone 3GS for a Samsung Galaxy S i9000. Coming from an iPhone, I first had to show him the amazing richness of possibilities you have on Android compared to an iPhone and after he overcame his old knowledge of "one button, one app", he was quite pleased with some of Androids merits. However, all in all, he's missing some important features he used to have on his iPhone and he has some problems:
A) Most important of all, pretty much a deal breaker if he can't get it fixed soon: SIP. We tried several different clients, and for example we even tried the latest (non-market) version of csipsimple and we found bug reports for the Galaxy S and adjusted the mic/speaker volumes accordingly but it's still really bad: For local calls the quality is reasonable. It's a bit stuttery at times but people can talk. It's much worse than on his iPhone though. But what's really annoying him is the fact that calls to foreign countries are a no-go. The added quality drop to long distance calls make it very hard for the other party to hear him (All over wifi btw). Please, does anyone know a sure-fix, exact-settings-listing for some SIP app for Android?
B) Also a very important thing to him is a calendar. But both the Samsung calendar as well as the original Android one don't have a good week-view. The original one doesn't have one, the Samsung one doesn't show titles on tasks. I find it ludicrous, it's just boxes without titles... Ideally, he wishes to have a week view similar to what I have on my N900:
Sorry, can't embed the image because I'm a new user:
h t t p ://login.icu.uzh.ch/~archer/Screenshot-20101116-182459.png
There's more but especially the SIP is really bugging him. He absolutely needs it to work reliably or he'll need to sell the device.
Thanks.

TB2 said:
Hi there,
B) Also a very important thing to him is a calendar. But both the Samsung calendar as well as the original Android one don't have a good week-view.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. Try Calendar Pad from the market in week view

What exactly is SIP? According to wiki, it's just a voice over internet protocol. Can you not use skype?

my wifi signal on 2.1 and 2.2 are the same. cellphones are not the same as laptop that has higher power to transmit data far away and and large space for antennas for receiving signal. if you look at wifi routers they got huge antennas. i don't think you can fit that in a phone.
i read a few months ago that iphone has problems on signal bcause of bad design : )
if you want software you've got a lot of choices in the market.

Try Sipdroid.
http://www.appbrain.com/app/sipdroid-voip-video-calling/org.sipdroid.sipua

all off topic comments trashed
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=9283203

Um... Poor daddy? Sorry cheeky I know but sgs is for people who like to tinker and find cool mods even simple apps like the plethora of gre calendar apps he could use right now. Seasoned iphone users especially of the older generation often don't get, the nerdy thrill that we do with the customisations and work necessary to fully realise the potential of sgs and andriod in general
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

TB2 said:
Hi there,
...................
A) Most important of all, pretty much a deal breaker if he can't get it fixed soon: SIP. We tried several different clients, and for example we even tried the latest (non-market) version of csipsimple and we found bug reports for the Galaxy S and adjusted the mic/speaker volumes accordingly but it's still really bad: For local calls the quality is reasonable. It's a bit stuttery at times but people can talk. It's much worse than on his iPhone though. But what's really annoying him is the fact that calls to foreign countries are a no-go. The added quality drop to long distance calls make it very hard for the other party to hear him (All over wifi btw). Please, does anyone know a sure-fix, exact-settings-listing for some SIP app for Android?
......................
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I use Sipdroid and VYKE as SIP provider. No echo, no cutting and only 30 seconds to set up. Can use WiFi or 3G. I do not use any PBXes.

the latest custom ROMs are really showing Pro
and performances are very quick
I'll recomend installing the DOC's ROM for SGS and use SipDroid for the voice chat
there are tons of Calendar options in the market, just take your time to review which one you like best

TB2 said:
Hi there,
..................
B) Also a very important thing to him is a calendar. But both the Samsung calendar as well as the original Android one don't have a good week-view. The original one doesn't have one, the Samsung one doesn't show titles on tasks. I find it ludicrous, it's just boxes without titles...
..............
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try Egg 'n stone CalWidget. You can customice as You like. Size the Widget 4x1, 4x2, 4x3, 4x4......, choose a calander to view (MyCalendar, Google Calender.....), how long time ahead, layout and colors as You like, transparancy, and it's free.
I guess if Your father is a former iPhone user, he does not know how a widget work, try to explain to him.

Allright thanks everyone for the suggestions!
Dad's pleased with CalendarPad. Nice overview and the widget does a good job as well.
We installed sipdroid today and for local calls it seems to work well. Will check soon if we have the same problems as with csipsimple regarding long distance calls.
By the way... What is it with the "want an iphone, get an iphone" attitude in this forum. I clearly mentioned that he likes some of Android's merits and I asked two specific questions which I think I can expect from any modern smartphone, not just the iphone (working SIP and flexible calendar), the second of which btw is a downside of the iPhone because of all the sandboxing going on on an iphone. Anyway, you seem to be pretty quick on the "it's an iphone-loser" button.
Anyway, I've got a third and fourth question:
C) Is it normal that the battery lasts about 1.5 days with no IM or SIP services running? Only a calendar and the shipped-with weather widget. Is there some hack to improve battery life beyond just turning all the features off?
D) He's having serious stability issues at times. It happens that the device freezes when plugging it into USB or at different random times. At those times, the button lights would stay on with the screen being black. Long-pressing the power button fixes it. At different times it's a bit jerky. For example you would unlock the screen (gesture code) but then the screen would remain black for a few seconds and maybe the lock screen would show up again. Is this normal on android in general or has it to do with what Samsung pushed into its distro? Btw his mobile is branded by Orange and ships with some additional crap. Could this cause the problem? What's the easiest way of getting a fresh and simple Samsung or pure Android distro on it? I see there are lots of "mods", but I think we don't need any sort of mod, just a plain and stable OS.
Thanks.

To improve battery life, try turning off "Wireless location" in settings. However the battery life, even with various optimizations, is nowhere as good as iPhone 4.
The delays and stuttering you are experiencing is probably due to file system lag. Samsung uses RFS which is their own version of file system based on FAT32. Unfortunately that causes the phone to lag from time to time, usually when opening new applications or performing multiple I/O tasks. This can be fixed by installing one of the many lag fixes available. I use "One click lag fix" which you can download from the Market, but you will need to root the phone to apply it. There are several other alternatives which you can find in the "Development" forum.

Jamm59 said:
Try Egg 'n stone CalWidget. You can customice as You like. Size the Widget 4x1, 4x2, 4x3, 4x4......, choose a calander to view (MyCalendar, Google Calender.....), how long time ahead, layout and colors as You like, transparancy, and it's free.
I guess if Your father is a former iPhone user, he does not know how a widget work, try to explain to him.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What exactly is google calendar, cant find it in the market. It would be great to have a calendar sync with my google account like my contacts as I've missed a couple of appointments when switching to a new phone and having no backup on calendar...

TB2 said:
Allright thanks everyone for the suggestions!
By the way... What is it with the "want an iphone, get an iphone" attitude in this forum.
C) Is it normal that the battery lasts about 1.5 days with no IM or SIP services running? Only a calendar and the shipped-with weather widget. Is there some hack to improve battery life beyond just turning all the features off?
D) He's having serious stability issues at times.
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi, glad CalenderPad worked out for your dad.
At times, android lovers seem to suffer from the Calimero effect
Your battery life could be a bit better, but not much. 1,5 days is considered normal, most of us have the goal to get through a full working day (and tinkering evening...) with one charge.
The stability issues are 90% Samsungs fault, because they did a less than perfect job on the software. HTC does a better job out of the box software wise. Indeed, a lagfix will most probably cure the symptoms, i have good experience with the Voodoo Lagfix. Instructions are easy, and can be found at project-voodoo.org.
To get rid of the Orange branding, you could flash an unbranded stock Samsung Rom from samfirmware.com (Link, you need to create an account for the link to work). The first time i flashed a ROM, it was nerving. But as long as you know how to get into recovery mode (and checked that Recovery Mode is available!) you should be fine. Just remember to disable/revert any lagfixes before flashing another ROM or Kernel to be safe.

WP7 - Pro's and Con's

im interested to know what the community thinks of the pro's and con's of WP7 on our HD2's so far. this can include facts or opinions. i'll start it off...
pro - 720p recording
con - wont play divx movies
i have a bunch of cons honestly, but i'd like to hear what everyone else has to say first lol

Only big issues I have with WP7
1. nav software is absolute ****. Google Maps leaves it in the dust.
2. No quick toggle for wireless/bluetooth/3g etc...

yshi41 said:
Only big issues I have with WP7
1. nav software is absolute ****. Google Maps leaves it in the dust.
2. No quick toggle for wireless/bluetooth/3g etc...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah i've noticed the same couple things. having to go through several menu's to get to the wifi isn't very fun. there's probably an app somewhere, but honestly it's a feature that should be built right in.
as for the maps, im in total agreement. in fact im still using my old htc excalibur (tmobile dash) for it's ability to use garmin which doesn't require a data connection. not a good idea to depend on satellites if you go out hiking ya know lol. i prefer to have all my maps accessible from the memory card.

errr... flash browser?
i'm sticking with android for definate til they sort that one out!!!

youngdaddytc said:
yeah i've noticed the same couple things. having to go through several menu's to get to the wifi isn't very fun. there's probably an app somewhere, but honestly it's a feature that should be built right in.
as for the maps, im in total agreement. in fact im still using my old htc excalibur (tmobile dash) for it's ability to use garmin which doesn't require a data connection. not a good idea to depend on satellites if you go out hiking ya know lol. i prefer to have all my maps accessible from the memory card.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Although I'm willing to put up with those things because the interface is so far ahead of android/iOS. It would be nice to get these fixed. I really seems like MS is going at this half assed, just like they did with the ZuneHD (another awesome device that never got proper marketing).
Oh and I forgot
3. Are they ever going to add a live tile for the freakin weather application.....grrrrr this one really pisses me off actually

Okay well lets see in reference to the above..
Bing Maps needs some updates, its actually ****ty compared to the iphone version.
In terms of toggling WIFI, 3g blah blah blah, no one really does this **** on a regular bases other than our little niche of people to suck out every last bit of battery life we can. So go make the app.
Weather tile. I think one of the weather apps has a live tile (I think weather bug)
Most of this stuff will be addressed in Mango as well as a flood of new API's. We will see a sex storm of new apps and cool stuff.
That said here are my Pros and Cons...
Pros
Beautiful UI
Speed
Zune Pass/Zune
Outlook Exchange
the switch from horizontal to vertical viewing in the browser.
Cons.
Some bugs here and there with updating.
Slow updates
Getting used to the function of the back button (though its pretty nice now)
HTC's offerings ****ing suck.

milli260876 said:
errr... flash browser?
i'm sticking with android for definate til they sort that one out!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah pretty lame, no flash. that means sights like hulu are unusable to stream content. im guessing some of the ones i use regularly on my laptop like justin.tv are also probably no-go's. i decided to check the marketplace to see if the other browsers enable flash but they dont work either.
funny that im not seeing too many positives so far lol. one thing i do like is the overall design. i mean, it does LOOK pretty decent when im using it. but unfortunately there seems to be a lot of work windows still has to do to get this up to par. soooo....
pro - design
con - no flash

your not seeing as many positives, not because it doesnt have any but because its human nature to moan, vary rarely do we actively praise something.
WP7, why is it good? for me it has single handedly changed the way i view pdas/smartphones. Do i want to mod the hell out of it (ie WM / droid) no, not any more, i want it to work, and it does.
the down side? i would absolutely love for WP to have a WM sandbox, i dont care if it runs sluggish, but if WP could run WM programs it would be a beast.

Pros:
Live tile homescreen allows all the things I want as in apps and contacts etc
You can even pin map locations to get directions to - Phenomenal!
Volume change doesn't interrupt apps like 6.5 and sense did
You don't need to unlock the phone to change volume or switch to and from vibrate
Fast and slick no matter how many apps I go in and out of
XBox Live [games are great - NFS Undercover & Rise of Glory ftw]
web browser is simply the best
Bing searching is super slick especially using it to find and get to places
Even though they dumped activesync at least I can still sync via gmail
Cons: [although not deal breakers]
No wifi router
No RDP
No active sync & ability to connect as MSD
Can't run my TomTom & Garmin GPS apps which carried me through old WM
WP7 is so slick I simply won't be reverting back to 6.5 with sense and I've never had a penchant for iphone or android [or iGroan and Haemorrhoid] so I'm pleased as hell WP7 is so good. I'm also surprised as I wasn't impressed with the initial youtube "first looks" of WP7 as it looked boring as hell...
When showing my iGroan mates the bing search, type in pizza, goto a shop, get directions and the map comes up with my location and direction they simply get blown away... Most comments are "Whoa, that IS quick"...