Database Users

More RAM for G1, possible???

do you know how windows vista can use external memory and make it into additional RAM? well can the G1 be programed to take memory from the SD-Card and turn it into more RAM?? I know that it might not work but its worth a check!
IF your not sure about it check this it will explain ((http://articles.techrepublic.com.com/5100-10878_11-6039379.html))

I believe you're thinking of Swap - check out http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=531988

Also don't forget using your SD card as swap partition will thrash it and could shorten the life of your SD card due to alot of writes.
If you really want to do this look for a program called 'swapper'.

oh ok thanks for the heads up !

johnnie93 said:
do you know how windows vista can use external memory and make it into additional RAM? well can the G1 be programed to take memory from the SD-Card and turn it into more RAM?? I know that it might not work but its worth a check!
IF your not sure about it check this it will explain ((http://articles.techrepublic.com.com/5100-10878_11-6039379.html))
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is pretty much the function the swap file provides. There is a differentiation on a desktop because on a desktop files are stored on a hdd, whereas a portable device usually uses flash as its storage and swap.

And just to clarify, Vista readyboost is completely different to RAM or swap partitions.
Flash memory is limited to a certain number of writes, it is a very large number so in normal use you will probably never hit it. Reading however will not affect the lifetime of your flash memory.
Hard drives do not have any such limits.
Readyboost uses an SD/USB memory card/stick as a cache to quickly load frequently used files, this is because it's generally faster to read from flash memory than from the hard disk. Readyboost DOES NOT write very often, this is why it is suitable for use with flash memory.
Swap/Paging/Virtual memory is completely different, it is an area on a disk, a file on windows or a seperate partition on linux, where the operating system can dump some of the data that is in RAM if it runs out of space. If you have low RAM or are using high memory applications this will do alot of reading AND writing, therefore will reduce the lifetime of your flash memory. This is why swap partitions are normally on hard disks.
Hope this helps explain it!

robblue2x said:
Hard drives do not have any such limits.
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Click to collapse
Sure they do. Just considerably longer. Also, hard disks, for quite a long time now, have been capable of dynamically remapping around worn out sections and come with a decent chunk of unused space that is used for remapping. Hard disks also suffer from gradual demagnetization -- over time, the differing magnetic fields on the platter will interact with each other, causing data loss. You can generally expect a finite life time of any hard disk before large sections of the platter become unusable. I have noticed this particularly to be the case with winvista, which by default likes to catalog and recatalog your disk (they say for fast searching), but the end result is writing and rewriting of the same small portion of the disk, which causes it to wear out VERY quickly, though leaving the balance of the disk perfectly functional.

there might be a way to physically remove (with a soldering iron) the 192MB ram chip, and solder on a 288MB ram chip like those on the newer HTC phones.
I really want more RAM, but I also want a keyboard. and with Android, you can't have both right now

That would be an impressive waste of time and energy but kudos if you could manage that. Best bet would be to buy the Hero when it comes out and get a bluetooth keyboard.
SyXbiT said:
there might be a way to physically remove (with a soldering iron) the 192MB ram chip, and solder on a 288MB ram chip like those on the newer HTC phones.
I really want more RAM, but I also want a keyboard. and with Android, you can't have both right now
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

R3nrut said:
That would be an impressive waste of time and energy but kudos if you could manage that. Best bet would be to buy the Hero when it comes out and get a bluetooth keyboard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does hero even work on tmob 3g in the US? Looks like its geared for at&t.
I'd say replace the memory chip if you can and report back!

I would definitely try it (I'm an Electrical Engineer, and solder at work all the time)
But i'd rather buy a 288MB chip from somewhere, rather than rip it from a different device.
I don't wanna throw away money.
if someone knows a supplier for those chips let me know and I'll try it and post screenshots

The last 2 smartphones I have owned there has been a discussion on upgrading the memory with huge threads and a few people trying. The end result has always been it is by far cheaper to get a new phone in another year which will have a faster processor, more memory, more storage etc...
Sure it can be done but with how fast technology changes it probably isn't worth it.

So is HTC HERO worth buying for more RAM and speed??

Only if the HTC Magic also is, because they're exactly the same except for the shape of the plastic.
I wouldn't give up the keyboard.

lbcoder said:
Only if the HTC Magic also is, because they're exactly the same except for the shape of the plastic.
I wouldn't give up the keyboard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the htc magic isn't exactly the same. Some htc magic models (like google ion and tmobile mytouch) only have 192megs of RAM.

My understanding is that apps are limitted to 16mb of ram anyway. The real problem is the data rate of the ram. Some have hinted that a class 6 sd card is just as fast at read/write as the phone's ram. So more ram in theory won't really help if it's still limmited by read/write rate speed. More internal memory would be nice but again won't make the phone any faster, just help with our 'out of room for apps issue'.
Perhaps on the hero motherboard buss speeds themselves are faster but I doubt there's much we could to speed up the dream :/ someone please correct me if I'm wrong tho..

You are probably confusing internal FLASH with RAM. A class 6 uSD card is NOWHERE NEAR the speed of the ram. The RAM is orders of magnitude faster.
sonikamd said:
My understanding is that apps are limitted to 16mb of ram anyway. The real problem is the data rate of the ram. Some have hinted that a class 6 sd card is just as fast at read/write as the phone's ram. So more ram in theory won't really help if it's still limmited by read/write rate speed. More internal memory would be nice but again won't make the phone any faster, just help with our 'out of room for apps issue'.
Perhaps on the hero motherboard buss speeds themselves are faster but I doubt there's much we could to speed up the dream :/ someone please correct me if I'm wrong tho..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Reminds me of the days when people soldered on extra RAM on the XBOX1 to increase performance when using XBOX Media Center!
I thought there was a technical manual out for the G1 somewhere that listed parts... Not just the service manual which showed you how to open the device for repair. Could be worth running a decent google search for the motherboard and parts and then find a supplier for the RAM if you're game in trying to solder more on.
Thanks to the flexibility of Android as well, I'm pretty sure it would be able to read and make use of the extra RAM too.

blackeyedbrian said:
Does hero even work on tmob 3g in the US? Looks like its geared for at&t.
I'd say replace the memory chip if you can and report back!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Last I heard it was going to Sprint instead possibly. I really hope it doesn't!

NeoBlade said:
Reminds me of the days when people soldered on extra RAM on the XBOX1 to increase performance when using XBOX Media Center!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
...this is exactly what I thought...
With the recent rumors of the g1 not supporting donut due to its lack of memory... this mod is number 1 on my list... I plan to do this soon... any one else?

RAM-ROM Doubt

i have been planning to buy a hd2, but feel let down by the launch of t-mobile version which has 576 MB ram and 1 GB rom.
all these forums are crowded with possible tweaks for getting 576MB ram.
but i wonder why isnt 1GB rom making the news? its double of what HTC offers to us.
isnt 1GB rom imporant than say 576 MB ram.
sorrry if my question sounds silly, but would be glad if someone points to me the significance of how 128 MB addiional RAM outweighs the 512 MB additional ROM.

no problem...
U can install additional programs to ROM, but u can also install them to StorageCard. As long as the sizes of the new ROMs coming will not grow up, u will always have enough storage on Rom left to install some little apps and hotfixes that needs to be installed to rom.
But more RAM means u can left more things in memory to get quicker access to them and a more responsive (faster) device...(better multitasking) for example.
Compare a Windows XP PC running with 512MB of RAM to another one running 1GB...u will feel a huge difference.
Now compare the 2 machines both with 1GB of RAM but one running a 20GB HDD and the other one a 40GB HDD, and will not feel any difference. But, if u like, u can add another HDD to the machine with only 20GB HDD (same here like Storagecard for HD2)....

Hi Bimme,
thank you for your simple explanation.
Now i also understood what it´s all about RAM and ROM.
That was very usefull.
Greetings
Inuit

ya..thanks for the reply. my doubts cleared. but then this makes me ask one more question, why is it that 512 MB rom a limiting factor for win mob 7 as speculated. i mean i can get a decent capacity storage card.
i m really grateful 2 u for answeing my question, i think i will stick to and buy an hd2 this feb. but its jes these small small things that make me reconsider my option.

Or, to make it simpler, I know android can be installed to MicroSD, as a second OS. Does this mean that if our HD2 remains on 512MB ROM, and Win7 requires more, we can install it on MicroSD?
I suppose yes, but we would get in some term slower performances, on the boot, as well as starting applications, but in terms of running apps, it should stay as fast...
Correct me if I am wrong...

Another thing is that it was discovered by accident that the extra ram seems to be available on the euro devices. That caused the hype around that subject, nothing has been discovered about extra rom but that would indeed be great as well...
But yeah, as mentioned. There already was enough ram in the device so the extra ram doesn't give an enormous boost but always nice to have some unexpected extra stuff

Partition Size Recommendation - 8GB SD Card

I have searched, googled, etc, but I can not found a recommendation on partition size, for a 8GB SD, on swap, ext2.
Does a "recommended" exists?
Today I have 128 SWAP, and 896 Ext2.

What class sdcard? For a class 4/6 that seems pretty good it really depends on how many apps you have and how much multitasking you want to get done.

I basically want my phone to respond as fast as possible, to whatever i'm trying to do. So i do not mind using more, if needed.
Is not like I would be loading it with 7GB of music or videos.
It should be class 4, do not think it is 6.

Also depends on what rom you running. With Cyanogens 2.1 build its better that you don't use swap. So there's several factors to think about.

I'm currently using 4.x.

128mb swap is too big, fool! Drop it like it's hot.

You mean like it is going to do harm? or like it is a waste? you mean to totally drop it, or to drop it to 96, or 64 or 32?

Who let the dogs out?
Too big of swap size slows the phone. Many apps will be kept running in the background due to this. That's a bad thing. Go with 32 or 64 swap. And for an ext size, 528mb is sufficient. Unless, you have more than 200+ apps, which I doubt.
IMO, I avoid swap and use compcache instead. Swap slows down after a week. Only use swap if you like running a ton of Widgets and background apps.

Smaller size sdcards work better then big sized sdcards (also known as high capacity)

OK so I've been running many version and builds of android since day one on my tmous hd2. At first it was with the stock 16gb sdcard, (till it got corrupted, LOL) so then I switch to a 2gb I had around. I have only formatted this 2gb card once in the begging and never again.many times I have deleted the android folder and many times I has switch to new builds ( I think I try everyones.latest I been using n very stable JDMS 1.3) n haven't had any issues. Like freezing or SOD. Now two days ago I help my friend with his and his wife's tmous hd2 with the 16gb card. So I did a fresh format fat32 then flash the same rom (ozDroid) and radio I been using for months. It results they are getting freezes and occasionally SOD. So for a test I took my wife's tmous hd2 with 16gb card did the hole setup an guess what the freezing and SOD is the more often..when I don't get any with my sdcard 2gb. Could there be an issue with high capacity cards. And could that be the reason why many tmous have the more problems with freezes and SOD
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App

I use stock 16gb and dont have those issues.
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App

this is common knowledge in the IT field. the larger the card, the more slowly it will write and access small files, such as the files needed to run android. take 100 small text files and copy them to a 256 thumb drive, and an 8 gb thumb drive. you can copy them all to the 256mb drive, and delete them all again, before the are all copied to the 8gb thumb drive. the 8 gb drive, will work much faster copying an .avi, or large file than the 256, but it sucks at lots of small files.
but it's good that you're posting your exp here. many people would not know this otherwise, and may stop experimenting with android due to frustration, when all they need is a $10 2gb card from walmart.
another couple tips when dealing with solidstate memory. just like a harddrive, files can become fragmented if you have multiple tasks or file transfers going at the same time. to avoid this, make sure each is done before starting another set of files. next, do not defrag solid state drives. they only have a limited amount of times they can read and write to each sector, and defragging, and excessive copying/deleting, wears down the material, and kills sectors of the drive. and last but not least, watch your battery. just as it says not to attempt an install with less than 50% battery, don't run your phone down to a dead battery when possible. because your booting of the microsd, it's constantly being accessed by read and write functions, and if the battery dies before it finishes writing, you get corrupted files, and you'll have to do your install all over.

No lockup or freeze with 16GB.

prking07 said:
I use stock 16gb and dont have those issues.
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same here. 16 gb SDHC, no problems.

I haven't noticed any difference between a Class 2 2gb, Class 2 16gb, or a Class 4 8gb - they all run about the same with not noticeable differences in boot time, smoothness, or SODs, even though the class 4 is 2x as fast.

hi guys,
before you post any comment, you can grab a none SDHC card, and do a comparison.
if you have benchmark software, please look at the "access time", the None-SDHC card always faster than the SDHC card. not the speed, but the access time.
after I change to 2GB SD Card, I never meeting any sleep, lag program with any version of roms.
if you don't have none-SDHC card, please do not make any conclusion.

16 gb class 10 kingston sdhc
works great
compaired a class 6 no name 8gb sdhc and the stock 16gb class 2 the class six lags less than the class 2 but the class 10 16 gb kingston is super fast

I am using class 4 8GB and 16GB, no diffrence found.

I can confirm, going from 16gb to 8gb, I've had far less issues with the 8gb card using the same setup. 0 SODs when I'd get them daily with the 16gb card. May or may not have anything or everything to do with it, but I'm sticking with the 8gb card. lol

My experience has been that performance has been about the same whether using a 2 GB SD card or a 16 GB SDHC. However, it seems that my 16 GB card was slower at one point because I had an excessive number of individual files on it. It's a double edge sword because you have all that capacity but the more you use it the slower it seems to run.

I had this issue aswell but I updated my radio to 2.12.xx.xx. and since then I have not seen any performance issue due to the SD card size.
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App

qingcai said:
hi guys,
before you post any comment, you can grab a none SDHC card, and do a comparison.
if you have benchmark software, please look at the "access time", the None-SDHC card always faster than the SDHC card. not the speed, but the access time.
after I change to 2GB SD Card, I never meeting any sleep, lag program with any version of roms.
if you don't have none-SDHC card, please do not make any conclusion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's very presumptuous of you.
I fixed all of my lag and screen freeze problems with a combination of setCPU settings, ADW launcher settings, and updating my radio rom.
Before I finished doing all of that this morning, I'd get a freeze from wake fairly often. Since then, not a single freeze, and trust me, I've been trying to get it to freeze up.
Believe what you will my friend, but punishing yourself with a 2GB card just seems silly when people are outright telling you that the size isn't the problem.
Good luck either way!

apallohadas said:
That's very presumptuous of you.
I fixed all of my lag and screen freeze problems with a combination of setCPU settings, ADW launcher settings, and updating my radio rom.
Before I finished doing all of that this morning, I'd get a freeze from wake fairly often. Since then, not a single freeze, and trust me, I've been trying to get it to freeze up.
Believe what you will my friend, but punishing yourself with a 2GB card just seems silly when people are outright telling you that the size isn't the problem.
Good luck either way!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes ur are right with the new builds and using setting and programs like setcpu or even auto killers will help eliminate this problems. But I I said in the first post was that high capacity cards tend to give u more problems, using my 2gb (I think all the way to 6gb is non high capacity) I have no need for such adjustments to whatever build I use..u can read post 2, is very well explain there.
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App

My 32GB did worked only one time, after first reboot i cant use android. But 2gb works like a charm

A2SD on G2/DZ - your opinion

this is one of those topics that I am genuinely curious about, because on the surface, I can't wrap my head around how A2SD could be useful on a phone with 2gb of [usable] rom. what's more of a hoot to me is that people usually set up a 1gb ext partition for storage... which is less than the phone has internally... so what did that accomplish?
additionally, with the decent amount of ram we have, swap doesn't seem like it would do much good... maybe on sense? I don't know.
it's just interesting to me that, on paper, the vision has no use for a2sd, and yet it is even built in to several custom roms that were developed specifically for the vision. HMmmmmMMmMmM.
discuss!~

i never got that either... the idea of swap always worried me ... so whats the deal with A2SD really?

I take out you guys haven't seen the size of some of the newer apps on the market?
I see it as, why not? It's a feature we should be able to use.
Sent from my T-mobile G2

Ummm...Maybe it's because I'm not a frantic app downloader, but I have not had a problem that I would need A2SD. I have the apps I need Stock, weather, social networking, Google Earth, some games on the side and etc. and I still have 0.96 GB free, so really A2SD is not greatly needed unless your Android device is your gaming device, and even then it would be hard to fill up.
I did a little looking on the market, and I found about the top game in space would be 29m which I assume is mb. This is one of the best developed games graphics wise that I see on Android, and I would need this app downloaded a lot of times to fill up my space which is not going to happen because I don't need a lot of of those types of those games on my phone at the same time, and on top of my other games.
If the developer feels like maintaining it for the G2/DZ then go ahead not my place to stop it, but really not needed anymore

I actually use my EXT partition. I have quite a number of games on my phone and the 2GB A2SD partition helps (out of 2.01 Titanium reads, I've got 1.12 free and my internal storage has 1.16 free).

Plants vs zombies is over 70mb.
You have a massive sd card, why not have the freedom to put what you want on there. It was added to froyo for a reason, why remove functionality?
When that 1gb app that makes pancakes for you comes out, you'll be wishing you could move it to your sd.
Sent from my T-mobile G2

Froyo is general could be for lower end phones which do not have as much internal space and we are talking about the Vision, and if a phone starts making decent pancakes the tech that we would have would not need A2SD, and it would not be a phone...it would be my cook.
And even still you would need multiple games like that to fill up my internal space.
Like I said, not needed, but if the developer feels like maintaining it, it's not my job to get in the way.

Nospin said:
Plants vs zombies is over 70mb.
You have a massive sd card, why not have the freedom to put what you want on there. It was added to froyo for a reason, why remove functionality?
When that 1gb app that makes pancakes for you comes out, you'll be wishing you could move it to your sd.
Sent from my T-mobile G2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, I CAN (and do) use the Froyo/GB A2FAT option. PyroMod doesn't restrict its users to just using the EXT partition.
And speaking of massive SD cards, Kingmax boasted last month that they created a 64GB card. How much do you think THAT would cost?

Some games take hundred of megabytes

briantech said:
Some games take hundred of megabytes
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dont most of them games go automatically to the sd card anyways?
In general, would the system load an app faster off the internal storage or off an sd card? I'm assuming the internal memory. Like others have attested, i have 58 apps and still got about 1 gig of memory free. A2SD can be useful for some, but for the masses, it's not necessary on our phone. And any apps that are HUGE go to the sd card automatically anyways(as in they create their own folder and put the bulk of the files on there).
Lets not forget there is two different A2SD methods. The old school method of going to an EXT partition, and the built in one with froyo and on that goes on the regular fat partition. And then in a way there is a third, which is what i just explained, where no matter where you set your install location, it puts the bulk of it's file in a folder on the sd card(it's own folder, not .androidsecure).