Hi guys,
I've reflashed my rom recently with a new mob6.5 version. Looks great, but I don't now have access to Telstra bigpond or Foxtel.
Any help appreciated.
I've scanned the forum, and there was one mention of a file to download, but the link (rapidshare) is no longer working.
Anybody know how to browse the free telstra sites (or the address) and how to get the foxtel logo (or address) working?
I'm using Telstra as the carrier.
thanks.
bump, anybody out there that can help
I have the same problem.
lt8x7 said:
I have the same problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I recognise that user....does ozaudi ring a bell?
Try this:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=463339
didn't seem to work.
It opens up the site (in ie) http://mobiletv.telstra.com/startAction.do?entry=portal
not working in ie, tried in Opera as well, still no luck.
In Opera, I get:
'to access Telstra mobile Foxtel you need a compatible 3G or Next g phone.
Call 125 111 (or 125 8880 for prepaid) for more information (call charges apply).
can anybody with a proper Telstra rom advise of the URL link that it takes you to (and also does it use IE, or Opera, or something else?)
jnrdavo said:
I recognise that user....does ozaudi ring a bell?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's me
You can use Opera to access Mobile Foxtel, but you have to change a couple of things.
You have to set the user string in Opera to be:
Touch HD T8285 Opera /9.50 (Windows NT 5.1; U; en)
and you have to make sure the proxy addresses are set to:
10.1.1.181:80
To make these changes, go to About:Config in Opera. Do a quick find for User and then down the list it will show "Custom User Agent" make the change in there. The proxy address is entered in the proxy section. Check "enable http 1.1 for proxy"
Make sure you save the changes.
The URL mentioned in this thread should then work. You can also go to wap.telstra.com/wap for the mobile bigpond website.
Jack.
jnrdavo said:
Hi guys,
I've reflashed my rom recently with a new mob6.5 version. Looks great, but I don't now have access to Telstra bigpond or Foxtel.
Any help appreciated.
I've scanned the forum, and there was one mention of a file to download, but the link (rapidshare) is no longer working.
Anybody know how to browse the free telstra sites (or the address) and how to get the foxtel logo (or address) working?
I'm using Telstra as the carrier.
thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your help, but no luck :-(
I've changed both the proxy and the string, but when I go to the URL per below, I still get the message:
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
Screen shots of config below:
Tried a reboot, but still no luck...
Your left hand screen shot doesn't go down far enough. There are three settings under "Enable HTTP 1.1 for proxy"
These are FTP Server, HTTP Server and HTTPS Server. In each of these three fields should be 10.1.1.181:80
I usually don't search for these bits, just go straight to the Proxy section and expand it.
Make sure there isn't a space either in the Custom User Agent field between Opera and /9.50 - I think I inadvertently put one in. You should only have to change what comes before the word Opera.
ok, so close, yet so far
I've done the extra mods, and removed the space. I can browse the http://wap.telstra.com/wap without problem, but when I click on Foxtel, I still get the same problem!
is there anyway to modify the ini file without having to view and scroll on screen? Is the file able to be copied to my pc?
I've never tried this before, but this is my Opera.ini file from Windows\Opera9
You should be able to just copy it into that folder while Opera isn't running.
I've attached it as Opera.txt - you'll have to rename it Opera.ini
nope, still no potatoe!!!
I wonder what it is... I copied down the file, renamed to ini, copied to the \windows\opera9 folder (and overwrote the existing one), then started opera....
browsed to the mobiletvetc URL, but got the same message
When you go to wap.telstra.com/wap, what page do you get?
The nice glossy Bigpond one or the old crappy WAP looking one?
sorry for the late reply... I get the nice one, easy to read etc.
Also, if I try to 'watch' and stories from the bigpond news, nothing happens. The status bar at the bottom start to display, then it disapears, and stays on the current screen.
I've just downloaded and installed V57 firmware, recopied over the opera.ini file to the \windows\opera9 folder, but still the same problem.....
If I press on the 'watch' icon, I now get the following...
interesting..... (and frustrating!)
I have posted my Opera.ini from a default Telstra ROM. Hopefully this will help you. I also located an opera1.ini which I have included. let me know how you go.
http://rapidshare.com/files/277063085/operaini.rar.html
Cheers
That fixed mine - thanks.
thanks mate...
Still no luck
I'll be buggered if I know what it is that's causing it...
Would you mind sending me your settings and setting1 files from the opera9\Settings folder?
...hold your horses.... it's working now!
I rebooted, then recopied down the files (both ini files) to the \windows\opera9 folder and it works!!
Many MANY thanks...
Hopefully this thread will help others as well
....maybe I spoke too soon....
I'm now getting 'This service is temporarily unavailable due to a technical issue. Please try again later. If problem persists call customer service on 125111 (or 1258880 for Prepaid) for assistance (call charges apply)....
Related
Hi
Yesterday I put the new Orange ROM on my o2 Exec, but have now gone to the fully-released i-mate one as I believed it is better. However, I REALLY like both the Orange.tsk (the 600k one, not the 100ish one they provide in the official rom) and the Orange dialer. In a blonde moment, I almost thought that if I copied the Orange .cab to install the video telephony, etc, it would copy the graphics across. I quickly came to my senses.
I've got the Orange theme on the phone now and I really like it, but it would be very much appreciated it someone could post the files to the Orange dialer? I've searched but can't find anything.
For info, you can find the filenames in the registry: HKLM > Security > Phone > Skin > Dialer > landscape and portrait.
Cheers
Ant
Hi,
Would be interested as to why you think the I-Mate Rom is better. Am thinking of changing my M5000 Rom but not sure as to what one to change it to.
Thanks
Dunno. Just a gut feeling, I suppose. Speed of moving through menus, plus I was getting that garbled Start bar issue after fullscreen apps closed. I may have seen the odd i-mate rom'd post with that issue, but I never had it with mine.
With the test build of the imate rom - and hopefully with the full one - I finally felt my Exec was performing and behaving as it should.
Ant
PS - any takers on providing those graphics?
Noone willing to help me out for 5 mins of their time?
Cheers
Ant
Dear Anton.Valleyman,
I have manage to get the files of orange dialpad... Copy all the files in the rar archive to windows dir in ppc with resco file explorer and overwrite old files then soft reset...
Regards and Thanks...
Im sorry i dont have the orange dial files however I do have my old vodafone ones if anyone is intrested........ Oh in windows there are two files called Bkgnd_Land.bmp & Bkgnd_Port.bmp these are the backgrounds for the dialer, have fun
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
Excellent guys, thanks very much!!
Ant
Thanks a lot guys.
Pls post more. Anyone got the original O2 dialpad.
Thanks.
Goes without saying that anyone wishing to do this, must first turn wireless mode on else you'll get a file-in-use error and won't be able to copy. Happened to me in a schoolboy error moment earlier today. The voda backdrop looks much better than the o2 / Orange ones, but wish they hadn't put the voda speechmark logo on it!!
Thanks again for the files, guys.
Ant
Anton.Valleyman said:
Goes without saying that anyone wishing to do this, must first turn wireless mode on else you'll get a file-in-use error and won't be able to copy. Happened to me in a schoolboy error moment earlier today.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My turn for the chool boy error then? Can't copy via AS, what's the process?
griffog said:
My turn for the chool boy error then? Can't copy via AS, what's the process?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hehe, I did mine via the phone itself.
1) Wi-fi'd the files to My Documents
2) Turned flight mode on and then soft reset
3) Once rebooted, confirmed phone was still of, then using Resco File Explorer, copy the files into \windows, saying yes to overwriting
4) Soft reset
After it came back, pressed phone and the dialer is now in the new format.
HTH
Cheers
Ant
ratcom said:
Im sorry i dont have the orange dial files however I do have my old vodafone ones if anyone is intrested........ Oh in windows there are two files called Bkgnd_Land.bmp & Bkgnd_Port.bmp these are the backgrounds for the dialer, have fun
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hi ratcom -- ur images are amazing.... donwloaded ur rar file....cud u guide me how to apply those bmps to my toy (exec) ?
Thanks
PROTOCHIP said:
Dear Anton.Valleyman,
I have manage to get the files of orange dialpad... Copy all the files in the rar archive to windows dir in ppc with resco file explorer and overwrite old files then soft reset...
Regards and Thanks...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Will this include the VideoCall button and also map the Videocall link to that button??
I just cold-booted my replacement unit (dropped the old one) and thought I'd try it without the Orange Ext-Rom - so far so good but would still like the ability to VideoCall.
Hi,
Is there any way to use the terminal server client to use different port numbers. I have terminal servers that use non standard as well as default ports, we change to get though firewalls ect. I know you can change the default listener port, is there anyway to enter the port number from the TS interface, in the windows world I would just enter servername:2323 and it would use port 2323.. Any ideas?
With the WM6 version of Remote Desktop you can enter the URL/IP Address followed by a colon and then the port number, but not in WM5.
You could try and install the WM6 version that's attached, although I haven't tried it on WM5. (DO SO AT YOUR OWN RISK, ETC)
What you can do with the WM5 version of RDP is
1. Copy and paste the default RDP Shortcut on the PPC and rename it with any name describing the server you want to connect to.
2. Run the new RDP shortcut and then use the Running Programs tab in the Start > Settings > System tab > Memory app to actually stop RDP. (This creates the necessary registry entries.)
3. Edit the following registry key on the PPC.
[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Terminal Server Client\<NEW SHORTCUT NAME>]
Add a DWORD value named "Server Port" and enter the new port number
you want to use.
For what it's worth, the WM6 version allows automatic login and is far more responsive.
Terminal Server
Thanks!! The WM6 works great, one note it doesn't replace the old version. Just had to create a shortcut to the new version and it works with no problems.
hey, i´ve got some questions,
The Lazy Slug said:
1. Copy and paste the default RDP Shortcut on the PPC and rename it with any name describing the server you want to connect to.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i copied the original wptsc.exe and renamed it to exampletsc.exe and started it. i stoped it as you describe and checked the registry for the keys but i can´t find a new folder with the name of the new rdp file... i can only find and edit the default folder.
The Lazy Slug said:
For what it's worth, the WM6 version allows automatic login and is far more responsive.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hey, how can i turn on the auto login function? and if, where do i have to put the data (server, username, passwort)? in the rigistry?
thank you!
Thanks for Remote desktop software. I am now able to connect to my Desktop PC with my HTC Touch (WM6). But I can connect only through data cable. Can i connect through wifi. I am already browsing internet in my Pocket PC through wifi through my above Desktop PC's Internet connection. Pl suggest. Thanks
still cant connect
guys
first of all thanks for the new cab file
i am using new wm6 with the software given...
but stillcant connect
its says invalid IP or computer name.. or a network error ocured.
while i am ableto access the computer using lan connection.
can not install
hi,
I downloaded the files, when trying to install, in my WM 6.0 its saying u donot have enough permission. pls help
thanks
Partha
partha06 said:
hi,
when trying to install, in my WM 6.0 its saying u donot have enough permission.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
mike2089 said:
Thanks!! The WM6 works great, one note it doesn't replace the old version. Just had to create a shortcut to the new version and it works with no problems.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
does not work on wm 6.5, crashed abut ui
Is there a way to set the GPRS authentication on a 61x to PAP and disable CHAP?
I have been unable to connect to a wireless broadband service because it requires PAP but the 61x appears to default to CHAP with no way to change it to PAP. Spent some time this afternoon on the HP instant support, only to be told that they had not included an UI for this in the 600 series and had no intention of putting it back either!
Dont know is it working on our device or not, but test AdvancedNetwork. I extracted it from HTC Iolite rom
sergiorus said:
Dont know is it working on our device or not, but test AdvancedNetwork. I extracted it from HTC Iolite rom
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Sergiorus,
Thanks for the file. I have copied it to my 612c and run the exe from there. It however gave me a 3-tabbed screen, all blank except for but bullets or drop-down lists (no description against each). Looks like the program cannot find the data containing the text descriptions.
Does the program run on your machine, and are there other files that might be part of the package?
Thanks again for the help,
Alfred
There are two files in zip archive .exe and .mui, copy two files to any folder and run exe. (mui and exe should be in one folder)
sergiorus said:
There are two files in zip archive .exe and .mui, copy two files to any folder and run exe. (mui and exe should be in one folder)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes that was how I tried - had both files in a folder and ran the exe. The program ran and gave me a 3-tab display but none with any description. It is as if running a program with no fonts. Does the program need other components (e.g. selected fonts) installed first?
Again thanks for the help!
So, you didnt see text like on screenshot ?
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
Hm..strange. I only copyed this two files, nothing more. Maybe your rom is not english?
Only can suggest to manually change GPRS Authentication Method
[HKLM\ControlPanel\PhoneExtendFunction]
"GPRSAuthenticationMethod"=dword:00000001 PAP
"GPRSAuthenticationMethod"=dword:00000002 CHAP
sergiorus said:
So, you didnt see text like on screenshot ?
Hm..strange. I only copyed this two files, nothing more. Maybe your rom is not english?
Only can suggest to manually change GPRS Authentication Method
[HKLM\ControlPanel\PhoneExtendFunction]
"GPRSAuthenticationMethod"=dword:00000001 PAP
"GPRSAuthenticationMethod"=dword:00000002 CHAP
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, I could see only the buttons and tabs, but not the text (neither text on page nor the tab names). You are right my rom is CHT (traditional chinese) and not English, but I have my regional setting at English (Australian) and it displays English alright.
I will try the registry settings to see if they work.
Thanks,
Alfred
Also you can translate .MUI file to your language. Just find small program ResHacker, open with it .MUI, translate all english words (about 15 words) and save it as AdvancedNetwork.exe.0804.MUI
Finally got around to test the methods suggested, and can report as follows:
(a) manually adding [HKLM\ControlPanel\PhoneExtendFunction] to the registry - doesn't work.
(b) changing the 0409.mui with Reshack to use chinese language (1028) - still cannot see text when firing up AdvancedNetwork.exe, whether mui is named 0804.mui or 0404.mui.
(c) found a seeting in [HKLM\MUI] which is defaulting to 1028 (chinese). Change it to 1033, soft reset the machine, and AdvancedNetwork.exe (unmodified) now shows all text - hurray! Used AdvancedNetwork to set authentication to CHAP then back to PAP, then fire up IE - still would NOT connect, with same packet error message!
Looks like the program AdvancedNetworks.exe does not work on the 612c, and have to continue looking for a solution...
Maybe solution is not here. Why you think that problem is in GPRSAuthenticationMethod?
sergiorus said:
Maybe solution is not here. Why you think that problem is in GPRSAuthenticationMethod?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am only guessing, based on two things:
(a) I can connect using my wife's HP6515, which has an utility to set the authentication method and actually defaults to PAP. I haven't worked out which file is the program and what registry entries it changes though.
(b) I have read in Whirlpool forums that VirginBroadband requires PAP and PAP only, and that using CHAP would give similar error messages (packet error) as I am getting.
(c) There were 614c users in the HP forum last year who had similar problems logging into their company networks, again same error, and they nailed the problem down to PAP. As that discussion occurred a long time ago, none of the participants appear to read the thread again and I cannot find out from them how they ended up fixing it.
(d) HP instant support admitted that the 612c would use CHAP but HP were not going to help to provide a tool to set it to PAP.
Not sure what else I could do!
No ideas... I can suggest to extract utility from HP6515, it should be in Windows directory. I dont think this utility is device dependent, so you can try this variant.
My first post, but I promise I have searched this forum to see if there is an answer to this question!
I'm having difficulty with Google Mail application on this device. I have Googlemail working fine in the pop/imap programme, but this does not seem to give all the functionality I want - for example being able to search all mails ever sent/received.
I therefore downlaoded and installed (twice) the Google Mail application. When prompted I changed the install folder from "Root" to "Applications". It installed fine, and can be run from the "run application now" link which appears at the end of the installation process.
However when I want to run the application again, or set a shortcut to it on my home screen it is nowhere to be found!
Am I doing something stupid? Can anyone help?
Thanks
Start Java.
It's a java app and doesn't put a shortcut to any installed java applets into the standard start menu.
There's a shortcut called JBLEND in startmenu tools folder (about halfway down) to start java
Thanks for that - found it and it works. Really annoying though that I can't get an icon for it. Strikes me a little anti-competitive of Microsoft to do that! I had an icon fine for it on my old Nokia.
Let's hope a fix comes along.
Thanks very much
Thanks for that - found it and it works. Really annoying though that I can't get an icon for it. Strikes me a little anti-competitive of Microsoft to do that! I had an icon fine for it on my old Nokia.
Let's hope a fix comes along.
Thanks very much for such a prompt reply
radiohead319 said:
Strikes me a little anti-competitive of Microsoft to do that!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Huh? That makes no sense.
Why do you use java app on Windows Mobile, better is use gmail via active sync? Emails, contacts, calendar?
http://www.google.com/mobile/products/sync.html#p=winmo
ok... I have activesync tied up with work's echange server... I normally use the Java Gmail app. However smy latest attempts to install, say the install .jad file is corrupt...
I am install directly from the website... gmail.com/app
I am using IE not opera to navigate there, the install link appears, however it gets half way through the install and then advises me the install program is corrupt...
since I have never had this problem before, I would guess it is more likely something to do with the Java client in my Laurentius ROM... anyone have any hints on how to get the app installed correctly?
finer6 said:
ok... I have activesync tied up with work's echange server... I normally use the Java Gmail app. However smy latest attempts to install, say the install .jad file is corrupt...
I am install directly from the website... gmail.com/app
I am using IE not opera to navigate there, the install link appears, however it gets half way through the install and then advises me the install program is corrupt...
since I have never had this problem before, I would guess it is more likely something to do with the Java client in my Laurentius ROM... anyone have any hints on how to get the app installed correctly?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have given up on Jblend. Do a search for esmertec Java VGA version and install that Java manager. Works really well with the Java Gmail App.
OK can anyone help with this error?
ran java client esmertec...
install gmail app
error
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
This is a fix for people who are running WM 6.5 and are having the problem stated below.
Your WIFI automaticly turns off when u put your device into standby and wont reconnect instantly after you have turned it back on. you have to go to comm manager and manually turn it on and off.
this will fix that so when u turn on your device again, it will connect to your network automaticly without you doing anything
First step. Use a mobile registry software and go to the following
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Comm\Parms
2) create a string Value "EnableAutoConnect" (without the " )and set it to 1
3) set "allow suspend" from 1 to 0
4) restart your phone and now you should not have anymore problems with the wifi.
Hope this helps all of you and also let me know if you are having any problems
Value Type
Hey
I am not well read on reg editing and i was wondering, while creating the new value what do i set the "value type" drop down menu to.
Cheers mate
the value type should be string
Also i would recommend you to use the mobile registry editor because all you need to do is to have your phone synchronized and edit it from your pc.
Hope this answered your Q's. if you have anymore questions let me know
shayan.k said:
the value type should be string
Also i would recommend you to use the mobile registry editor because all you need to do is to have your phone synchronized and edit it from your pc.
Hope this answered your Q's. if you have anymore questions let me know
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks mate, got it working
When I tried to do this it says "Access Denied"
please explain what you are doing step by step
LukeTurner93 said:
When I tried to do this it says "Access Denied"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same here unfortunately
please explain what u have done
Ok, I have started Mobileregistryeditor,
- right click on param,
- create new string 'EnableAutoConnect'
- fill in '1' as value
- press ok and get error 'acces denied'. Active sync is working
WM65
.NET3.5
It's what i am finding. I will try. Thank you, shayan
I didn't have this problem. i really don't know what to do. i checked it again and worked fine. it could be the rom you are using.
It doesn't work for me either, same message.
Windows Mobile 6.5 stock rom in English from HTC website.
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
Dear shayan.k,
I did as you explained but it didnt work and i still have this problem.
Can you plz help ...
Just an FYI..
I'm using a Tilt 2. In fact, I'm configuring about 30 of them. And maybe 1/4 of them had this problem. It seems to be completely random. I havne't figured out how to fix it. All my phones seem to be exactly the same. I did have some different hardware revisions, but they didn't line up with the problem. I contacted HTC, they said they don't support registry changes.
WTF?
this isnt working for me...although im not sure im creating the string properly...
NOT
"DWORD" ? right? a string? and then just pop a 1 in there?
could u maybe make a screenshot of your 2 strings? so i know what it should look like?
sorry to all the people here.i have been really busy and haven't been checking my posts. this is for WM 6.5 with sense 2.1 that wont connect automatically. now that we have Wm 6.5 with sense 2.5. this hack is no longer needed.
+ Aman's sense 2.5 is faster than 99% of all the other Roms out there, especially the prime 3. if u can i would recommend u to try that if u have Hspl installed.
Sorry for this