Database Users

G1 vs iPhone 3GS

I have been a loyal T-mobile customer since 2003, so when I had to move to Iowa, I tried really hard to live with the local roaming partner and my G1. After many problems with my service and signal strength at home, I decided to move on. I want to give T-mobile credit here, because I had 15 months left on my contract and they waived the ETF. Thanks to them and here is a rare story for everyone of some good customer service reguarding ETFs. I travel out of the country a few times a year, so I wanted a GSM phone that I could take with me. In my area, that really only left me with the roaming partner I had been frustrated with, (Iowa Wireless) and AT&T. Timing was just right, so I went ahead and bought 2 3GS iPhones for my wife and I. I did get my G1's unlocked and they are for sell if anyone's interested, (one rooted, one stock, both black, one has a small ding from a drop, the other's perfect, make an offer) but I've always wanted to try an iPhone out for myself and this just worked out well for us. I love Android, the open-ness of it, the customization possible and the general ability to tinker and hack it is very appealing to me. That being said, the 3GS is a great phone. The video recording is the best on any phone I've ever used or seen firsthand. I'm sure some of the unlocked HTC or Nokia phones that cost 400, 500 or 800 bucks can match or beat it. But for a subsidized US carried phone I am impressed. Also, the anti-fingerpring oleophobic (probably spelled that wrong) coating is amazing. A friend stopped by with a 3G iPhone and the difference was amazing. Also the speed difference is very very noticable. People here bash some ROM's for being too slow or not "snappy" enough compared to others. The difference between a 3G and te 3GS is way more than any difference I experienced with the roms I tried on my G1. I know this is a HTC dream forum, but as a big Android fan, I wanted to share my experience with the switch. Now after the HTC Hero comes out, among many other different versions of Android phones, I'd place my bets on them. For now, however, the new iPhone is hard to beat in my opinion.
Also, I have not posted very many times as I rarely have any useful input that hasn't already been shared, but I have used this forum so much for the last year. Thanks to everyone who contributes here. Without XDA the G1 and Android wouldn't be near the phone and platform they are.

ive got a g1 and a iphone 2g. i like both of them a lot but even the iphone 2g is a better and faster phone than tha g1

The reason I liked my G1 is totally different than why I like my iphone. Honestly, my G1 was almost a hobby by itself. This started when I got my old Nokia 5300 and started tinkering with it. Then I got a T-mobile Shadow / HTC Juno. Windows Mobile is kind of a pain in the ass, but there's no questioning all the capabilities you can get on your phone if you're patient enough. With Android it was all about what can my phone do next? With the iphone its, damn, this phone actually made my day easier and more enjoyable. So far I use my iphone's capabilites more than I did the G1.

wfagan59 said:
The reason I liked my G1 is totally different than why I like my iphone. Honestly, my G1 was almost a hobby by itself. This started when I got my old Nokia 5300 and started tinkering with it. Then I got a T-mobile Shadow / HTC Juno. Windows Mobile is kind of a pain in the ass, but there's no questioning all the capabilities you can get on your phone if you're patient enough. With Android it was all about what can my phone do next? With the iphone its, damn, this phone actually made my day easier and more enjoyable. So far I use my iphone's capabilites more than I did the G1.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess in this sense its arguable that the iPhone's reliability factor beats the G1. However, I think if we all dropped the custom ROMs and Apps2SD we might be able to gain that reliability factor the iPhone has through the stock ROMs. I don't see many people flashing custom ROMs onto iPhones now ;D

True, we are all blazing ahead with custom G1 roms that aren't as clean or ultimately reliable as the OEM's (although once again the custom roms are a huge part of why I think we all love android). I never really had a problem with reliability on my G1. I kept a copy of a ROM I knew worked well at all times on my sd card and only had to use it once when apps2sd went a little haywire one day. I just don't feel the need to modify the iphone as much as I did with the G1. The one thing I wasn't looking foward to was giving up the G1's actual keyboard. This has proven to be easier than I thought it would be. I can type pretty fast on the iphone. Not as quick or error free as my G1, but it's getting easier and hasn't been the stubling block I thouth it would be. I am a huge google user though and I miss the close connectivity the G1 had more than anything so far.

Seriously? This discussion AGAIN?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=527614

The big thing is that the G1 LETS us modify it, the iPhone... does not.

g1 has potential to be great but is hindered by internal specifications by the devices in which their released with. as soon as there is a phone with the same internal specs as the iphone whatever generation it may be then we will see android pure potential.

xadaniman said:
g1 has potential to be great but is hindered by internal specifications by the devices in which their released with. as soon as there is a phone with the same internal specs as the iphone whatever generation it may be then we will see android pure potential.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i think thats called the HTC Hero

never had the I phone, but i had many clones and many touch phones in the last 2 years and have many friends with the i phone 3g 3gs and there sorry as in the look and fell they are a nice device. as in speed pssst. my G1 smoked any i phone on 3g with stocked webkit and there browser and on wifi they where still lodading java pics and i was all ready browsing face book. and now with the rooting vs pawing or what ever it is that u do to unlock the i phone remember the first unlocked i phone had to be cracked open and rewired. the first g1 was a change in a bash file directory lol. The i phone is the jessus phone dont get me wrong but the g1 and android are the gods that every person prays to when there phone is stolen broken or lost.

alexjzim said:
i think thats called the HTC Hero
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not really, the htc hero is identical to the dream except for double the flash/ram and it doesn't have a keyboard. Junk in my opinion.
The Sony X2 looks interesting though, assuming that it'll be possible to root/customize it and ditch their goofy UI.

lbcoder said:
Not really, the htc hero is identical to the dream except for double the flash/ram and it doesn't have a keyboard. Junk in my opinion.
The Sony X2 looks interesting though, assuming that it'll be possible to root/customize it and ditch their goofy UI.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
one word...."Rachel"

pinetreehater said:
one word...."Rachel"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, except no hard keyboard, no call buttons, and no trackball/d-pad. Its like one step forward, three steps back.

Farewell windows mobile

As all of you, I've been with pocket pc since my hp 1945. Back then ppc was the most advance mobile os out there. I dreamed of a time they would converge this device with a phone to make the worlds greatest all in one. Then it came , the device that started my addiction with windows mobile phone, the imate jAm. From then on it was an exciting journey as I bought new phones when they cAme out. Each one better than the last and more stable. This journey climaxed when I bought my best pocket pc phone ever.. The htc advAntage. I loved that thing. Huge screen graphic processor, fast CPU , 8 gb HD . But alas my advantage was dropped one too mAny times so it was sold. Not wNting to get the same phone twice I purchased the AT&T tilt, then the xperia. Now for the point of my post. Since the begining to about when the first iPhone 3g came out I'd sAy ppc was very much better than the rest. Now after playing with the 3gs iPhone I can see with this device ppc is now in the dust. It does most things our ppc can do , but most of all more and more developers r writing awesome apps for this device. And because it's made by one company and also very popular there are tons of accessories for it. I mean there were times like with my advantage that I couldn't even get a proper case for it. As for os iPhone is wAaY more stAble, windowS is taking too long. They started this race but R finishing up last with their shotty work and programming. I meaN the only reSon I buy htc products is becUse of this awesome site. That's pretty sad when ur only selling point is a site that has no affilation with u but make ur buggy product useable. So with this post I sAy farewell ppc thank you all the chiefs that made All those custome Roms I've used over the past ten years. I've jumped ship and have bought a 3gs.
Ps xperia was the straw that broke the camels back. Worst ppc phone ever. From case problem to shotty os

Bye.
Thanks for the thread
Seriously why do people make these thread all they offer to the rest of us is reading your "painful" sob story.

ratchetnclank said:
Bye.
Thanks for the thread
Seriously why do people make these thread all they offer to the rest of us is reading your "painful" sob story.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hahaha yeah. to iphone so go. bye, you wont be missed.

You could summarise the OP into one sentence.
"The iPhone has a swish GUI and is better supported for apps than the Xperia, so I'm getting one."
My response would be,
"I prefer my device to have a keyboard, and while the Xperia isn't perfect, it has a spreadsheet app out of the box... for free."

It is not our fault that you cannot configure your device properly. Feel free to buy a featurephone like the iPhail. It is simple, not functional and has crappy hardware and software.
WinMo is for tech savvy people who understand modern tech. iCrap is for the ones who want everything configured and controlled for them. The latter will fall behind modern society, because of lack of understanding how things work.
Read this and pay special attention to the links haha:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=529998

Let's not be Haters
If someone wants to leave WinMo let them go. Maybe when they try iPhone OS they'll realize what they are missing. Perhaps, though, they would be happier with it.
Just because WinMo might be best for us doesn't mean it's best for everyone.
I do have to say, though, that I am confused by the now several threads in the Xperia forum saying that they are leaving for the iPhone. I never saw any in the Kaiser or in the Dev or Q&A forums. I am beginning to think that many of these are simply viral marketing.
EDIT: Perhaps not viral marketing, just users that don't understand customizing/flashing very well. Reviewed some old posts by the originators of these threads.

Have fun with your iPhone 3GS - seriously No bad feelings here (why shouldn't there be any lol ).
However, I think you made 2 mistakes here. The first one, was getting an Xperia in the first place. If you now can live without the full qwerty keyboard, you should have gotten a Touch HD. Thats more of a competitor to the iPhone than the Xperia.
The second mistake: You switched when the WM platform finally has come to a point, where almost all new devices feature a WVGA screen, which means, that developers will have less problems to build apps AND WM 6.5 with its marketplace is standing right on the doorstep. The other thing here is, that Microsoft won't be that fussy when it comes to authorising apps to the marketplace.

I personally am not going to jump ship to the iPhone. I'm satisfied with the Xperia, but am really pissed with the problems of the WM ecosystem. No one stop shopping for apps. No music or app downloads straight to the phone (that Handango InHand app was crap!). And, come on guys, customizing a phone and voiding the warranty IS NOT A FEATURE!
I am not even interested in the X2. Hardware alone isn't going to convince me to buy a new phone. It has to have a great ecosystem and UI...period. I'm guessing X3 with WM7 would be my next phone, but if it's crap, then I'm jumping ship to something better (even iPhone 4). My next phone is going to have a really well-designed and clever OS on top of superior hardware. Features should not be half-assed but properly integrated into the whole phone. Good example is Copy and Paste. Many complaints the iPhone didn't have it, but now it's got it and it is very well implemented. Apple didn't just throw some bull**** into their phone to make the feature list longer. My next mobile OS will have to be designed with that same mentality and attention to user-experience.
I'll stick with my X1 for another generation, but next generation, the company with the best designed OS and ecosystem will get my business.

Besides the question if the iPhone is the better phone (Everyone has to decide for themselves, for me, the iPhone is definetely lacking some things) i really have to say that somehow i get the impression, that WinMO got stuck.
A few years back, it was the ultimate OS for powerful PPC and later PPCPhones, but that was because it was the only real one. Microsoft just sat back and sold and sold without improving. I mean even the devices 5 years back already had 400 MhZ and were as fast as todays devices and if you take a look at Windows Mobile 2003 SE and Windows Mobile 6.1 you can't see significant changes at first glance. I've had many WinMo Phones throughout the years and i will stick with it for now, because I love Windwos Mobile and all the functionality that comes along with it and appart from a keyboard i am still missing some other things with other phones like the iPhone, but i guess, if Microsoft does not realize that the Phone OS Market is now an open and very competitive one and does not improve their OS within the next year (Speed is a great factor, other OS are way faster) more and more people will come to the point where WinMo is no longer the OS of choice. As for myself, more and more things that "disgusted" me with the first iphone, get lost more and more, as apple improves the whole package. Alright, an iPhone with Keyboard is way off for now, but who knows
Just my two cents =)

If they released an iPhone with a keyboard, it would be game over for the rest of the smartphone industry. Not that I'm an Apple or iPhone fan, but more likely than not, they would completely dominate the smartphone market with a keyboard device and a touch-only device.

The X1 is good, but apps pale in comparison aesthetics wise

I think the X1 is really good, it's the best WinMo device i've ever had. There is no real comparable device out there regarding the Hardware.
But right now it looks like this is the climax of Windows Mobile and if this stays like that till the next time i have to get a new device i will be looking seriously into other Phones, because my love to WinMo is not unconditionally, they really need to do something

etegration said:
hahaha yeah. to iphone so go. bye, you wont be missed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Word! **** the iPhone.

WinMo and X1 is good enough that I'll wait for WM7 to give it a chance (and I'll put the OFFICIAL WM6.5 on my X1). But after that, I'll have to jump ship to a/the keyboard iPhone or something else if Microsoft and SE doesn't get it's s**t together by next generation of phones (The X3).

I have to agree. I updated my X1 using the SE update service to R3A and now get regular crashes. I'm trying to find away to roll back but not having any luck. As mentioned before, cooking your ROM is all well and good to improve your phone, but it voids your warranty and shouldn't be needed. Lazysoft should start investing some of their vast mountain of money into programmers who can produce a stable, fast and easily customizable OS. As Apple slowly realise their mistakes with the iPhone and introduce firmware upgrades to compensate WM is going nowhere and offering nothing new or improved. As soon as iPhone is capable of everything other phones are, it's game over for WM.

I'm sorry but this is getting out of hand...we are being astroturfed here.
So many 'I'm switching to iphone 3gs' posts... it's professional done I grant you that (some are one or to post users some are 50+ well rounded accounts) but astroturf nonetheless.
I'm wondering if the rest of the XDA forums is being hit? If I'd get off my butt I'd check.

WhyBe said:
If they released an iPhone with a keyboard, it would be game over for the rest of the smartphone industry. Not that I'm an Apple or iPhone fan, but more likely than not, they would completely dominate the smartphone market with a keyboard device and a touch-only device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Keyboard will not be a substitute for all the features it lacks.
dadeadman said:
The X1 is good, but apps pale in comparison aesthetics wise
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, but not 100%. Function beats aesthetics any day. WinMo has cool looking apps as well.
THJahar said:
I'm sorry but this is getting out of hand...we are being astroturfed here.
So many 'I'm switching to iphone 3gs' posts... it's professional done I grant you that (some are one or to post users some are 50+ well rounded accounts) but astroturf nonetheless.
I'm wondering if the rest of the XDA forums is being hit? If I'd get off my butt I'd check.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought the same thing. Maybe a Mod can drop by and tell us if we are right?

Hannigan174 said:
If someone wants to leave WinMo let them go. Maybe when they try iPhone OS they'll realize what they are missing. Perhaps, though, they would be happier with it.
Just because WinMo might be best for us doesn't mean it's best for everyone.
I do have to say, though, that I am confused by the now several threads in the Xperia forum saying that they are leaving for the iPhone. I never saw any in the Kaiser or in the Dev or Q&A forums. I am beginning to think that many of these are simply viral marketing.
EDIT: Perhaps not viral marketing, just users that don't understand customizing/flashing very well. Reviewed some old posts by the originators of these threads.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had an iFail for a month (back in the 2G when you could jailbreak without contract)
I am happy I don't have it any more
Crappy keyboard, with only qwerty, no 3rd party keyboard support, apps were alright, nothing incredible, no real bluetooth (A2DP, tethering etc) and no hardware keyboard, hardware was mediocre at best and the camera sucked
Took them 2 years to sort out some of those issues, hardware/camera still suck and the apps.....lets just say I wouldn't take a lot of them if you paid me, not to mention being forced to use iTuneDeaf, I'll stick to my media players that support OGG thanks.

I am quite impressed with the iPhone 3GS, I do not understand how they can make the MP3 player so remarkably fast compared to any windows mobile mp3 program + phone. I know capacitive screen takes away the need to apply pressure but the iPhone OS looks as if it takes alot of processing power and yet 600 Megahertz is almost the same as 528 and yet iphone is blazing fast.
The same also applies to the Ipod Touch which has a 400 mhz processor.
I am just so discontented that the iPhone os is not good for automated apps and modification apps. If it had those features + a true file system than I would consider.
This is the reason why all iphones and ipod touch have mostly games and games and games, because it can only support certain types of foreground apps (since the Mac OS isn't designed for background apps)

I pity all the iDiots......
http://www.engadget.com/2009/07/01/video-iphone-copy-and-paste-is-a-pretty-incredible-thing-sur/

HD2 vs. iPhone: battle of titans

Hi,
This thread is to provide comparison and feedback exclusively from those that have both an iPhone 3G or later and an HD2, as is my case.
So here's my first go at comparing a 3G vs. HD2:
First and foremost: Handability and visual - which one is really usable
HD2 of course has a bigger screen, easier to read for those over 40 and more fancy, more show-off than a 3G, however:
- 3G easier to hold in the hand
- 3G can be operated one-handed. nearly impossible with HD2 due to its size
- HD2 easier to drop on the floor - it's not very handy, even for big hands
- Lets face it: Apple User interface is light-years ahead. 3G has an A LOT more intuitive, and more ergonomic user interface compared to the HD2: just compare how SMS threads are managed on the iPhone compared to the 3G - despite WM65, HD2 is pre-historic compared to the iphone. Same for email, browsing, ....
- The 3G touchscreen has a more responsive screen. On the HD2 sometimes you have to repeat swipe, pinch. Never happens on the 3G. The HD2 screen is nice and big, but close to the boarders, so you get many unwanted keypresses depending on how you hold it. Pinch zoom not native to WM65. Look at how iPhone handles the internet browser and compare with Explorer and Opera on the HD2 -WM65 is lagging behind the iPhone. (You do get pinch zoom on video in HD2, but who really needs that?)
- what about copy and paste on HD2? Pre-historic and not finger-friendly on WM65 - check out the cool new copy-paste feature on the iPhone latest firmware.
- HD2 keypad impossible to type with - I get one error per word; Apple 3G since the 3.1 firmware is more usable (try turning of the click sound - you will be surprised how fast you can go without error)
- in car handling while driving - you have to really pull over with the HD2, where the iPhone only requires a swipe and a keypress.
Conclusion: clear win to Apple on ergonomics and usability. WM65 suffers from its heritage. Unless MS decides to develope a new mobile OS from scratch, the game is lost against Apple. And there's a lot more non-tech people buying smartphones than there are WM geeks. MS - wake up !!!
Next, what you can do with it: the apps: the app store speaks for itself
Ever since I bought the HD2 3 weeks ago, the number of available apps in MS marketplace has not changed: a total of 60 apps only (!!!!!!!!!!) - compared to how many tens of thousands for the iPhone (!!!!!!!!!) including superbe games that beat a Nintendo DS. On WM65, there's nearly nothing. Now that I realized this after buying the HD2, I would not have bought it in the first place, because in the end, that is what counts for a smart phone. What good is a smart phone if you have no apps to do anything with it, no matter how great the smartphone looks? Here again, MS beware and wake up !!!
Proprietary vs. open platform: who's really open and who is not?
The long standing critique on the iPhone is that it was a closed, proprietary platform compared to WM65. Well, given the app note above, think twice. Even without jailbraking the iPhone you get a lot better than what you get for an "open" WM65 machine. And if you can't withhold tweaking everything, you can also jailbrake an iPhone and tweak everything on it. No advantage to WM65
Comms
HD2 a lot better. For instance when listening to streaming radio, the iPhone often disconnects / interrupts in the car when reception is more difficult, where the HD2 keeps on reception without interruption on the same route.
GPS functionality
Clear win to HD2, despite using an inferior non-SirfIII GPS chip I believe from Qualcomm. The iPhone GPS in contrast is the worst of the worst of all on the market. I mean even my old HTC P3600 without any quickgps works a lot better than an iPhone. For some reason on the iPhone the position is always wrong, the signal lost every 20 seconds, ....
That said, the HD2 is only good as long as there's Agps available. Traveling to a different country, you lose the AGPS advantage. In place, you will discover the joy of 2minute warm fix times, when you need the quick fix the most (note my official ROM does not have the Quickgps). I never understood why HTC dropped the Sirf III chip after the P3300 model, replacing with the inferior qualcomm chips. If anyone from HTC is reading this: do you know a Sirf IV is out, its cheap, consumes less power, small, and a lot quicker / precise than anything else available for civil use?
Now the GPS apps: None available on MS Marketplace so far. That said the GPS apps are generally better on WM65 - richer functionality (you can add your own POI and have POI warning when approaching) which is not possible on the iPhone.
Other technical and other features
Battery not exchangable in iPHone? who cares? I've had an iPhone for more than a year, using and charging every single day. Performance has not been impacted to date. the HD2 has the same battery charge life approximately as an iPhone
Memory: HD2 only comes with a 2G micro SD card. You need to put another 100 EUR for a 32G micro SD on the table to match iPhone's 32G.
Periferilia:
Did you notice since several months in the electronics and mobile phone stores, all of the periferilia was replaced and more than 90% of it today is exclusive to the iPhone. If you chose something else, tough luck - a lot less chargers, cases, screen protectors, etc. Everything in the shop today is for the iPhone.
My conclusion:
First and formost: the HD2 is a lot better than all other WM65 smart phones.
But, despite that I only have the 3G, not the newer iPhones, and the 3G has a slow processor, I feel the iPhone usability and app availability makes up for some of it. HD2 is a lot faster, and in the end WM65 is good for the disguised computer scientists and geeks like me. But anyone non-computer or IT savvy will feel a lot more comfortable with the iPhone- this is not against HTC, it's the OS the machine runs, WM65 that is at fault, and furthermore, there are currently really very few Apps for the HD2 where you have 10 of thousands for the iphone. The size of the screen, the processor speed, the show-off effect surpasses the iPhone, but app availablity and usability is lagging behind.
Would be interested in your thoughts
[NEW] Camera: HD2 is a lot better than iPhone, and the video is better than my old camcorder

I totally agree with one thing in your post: MS should create a totally new mobile OS from scratch if they want to catch up with the competition. That's the reason why Android, WebOS and the iPhone have so much success, they're all new OS'es, created by new standards instead of the 2000 standards WM has.

Seriously though, How much did Apple pay you to write all this?
You make the HD2 sound like total crap.

erosennin said:
Seriously though, How much did Apple pay you to write all this?
You make the HD2 sound like total crap.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ok, credit given to you, I revised some of my text. Note also my last comment - the HD2 is A LOT better than any other WM65 smart phone.
That said, did you ever use an iPhone? Do you disagree with any point that I raised in my summary? I have both, and will be happy to discuss further. My comments are focused on usability and usefulness, which I believe are the two most important criteria to consider.

I'd agree with most of what you've written. I also own both the iPhone (3GS) and, now, the HD2.
Loving the screen size on the HD2, but comparing it to the iPhone in almost EVERY other respect, it falls short.
I'm persevering with the HD2 though, as I wanted a change from the iPhone for a while.
But deep down, I'm 99% certain I'll be selling the HD2 long before I think about leaving the iPhone.
The iPhone is so easy to use. The keyboard is a million miles ahead of any other virtual keyboard. The media interface is better than any other I've seen. Battery life is better on my iPhone than on my HD2 (although the HD2 is better than it was). Apps availability is a big plus, even though so many are pointless. I've never liked anything Apple before, but the iPhone is still the phone to beat.
If it wasn't, the media wouldn't still be searching for the "iPhone killer" would they?
I do like my HD2, but realistically, it's not even close to matching my iPhone for everything that I want from a handset.

I never used an iphone, and I don't intend too.
But reading you 90% of your post, you seem totally biased

Really cheap flamewar bait ..

I believe the competition have caught up with Iphone, and for me personally, the only thing that is awesome with iphone is itunes store.
I prefer my HD2 to my old Iphone 3GS any day...not sure what i will say when they bring a new one out though!

Well I had to purchase my HD2 because orange don't yet stock it in the UK but they offered me the Iphone so I borrowed my sisters 3GS for a while and decided against it I think it boils down to what you are used to I already have lots of WM apps which work well there are lots to chose from on WM. You already mention GPS The HD2 is awsome with this a major reason I bought it.
I found the screen much more responsive on the HD2 than on the Iphone where you have to tap things twice sometimes to get them going.
I actually would have prefered the HD2 to be the Iphones size, but there is not that much difference and when you get used to the size other screens seem tiny in comparison.
I found the Iphone interface very boring to use there is no homescreen as such just a grid of apps, there is much more info on the Windows mobile homescreen.Both on Titanium and HTC sense.
I dont know what you mean by dropping the phone both can be dropped.
The camera is better on the HD2 and it has a flash (even taking into account the pink blob)
Another plus was XDA developers and the choice of what you can do with your phone regards cooking different roms. You are basically stuck with the Iphone as is,I probably would have got bored with it very quickly.
I would agree the Iphone is a very good phone especially good for gamers and music fans, etc and has a very slick flowing interface, I would consider the HD2 as a good alternative with a lot of potential for further improvements.

I was tempted by the darkside and I hate it. 3GS going on ebay and im returning to WM, with the HD2 cap in hand.

the-uki said:
ok, credit given to you, I revised some of my text. Note also my last comment - the HD2 is A LOT better than any other WM65 smart phone.
That said, did you ever use an iPhone? Do you disagree with any point that I raised in my summary? I have both, and will be happy to discuss further. My comments are focused on usability and usefulness, which I believe are the two most important criteria to consider.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I sold my iphone 3GS to fund my Hd2 purchase - no guesses about what position I have on this post - which btw is like the millionth one here in Leo section. Don't miss it one single bit and love my HD2 to bits - everyone has they're personal view....
ITunes and the usual apple - "you will do it this way or else" attitude to the OS are the only things I'm going to say. Stick to the general consumer products fella

You now comparing old Iphone hardware with old Windows Mobile. Boh will be updated in the next 6 months. In my opinion the batlle then really begins.

Biglia05 said:
I totally agree with one thing in your post: MS should create a totally new mobile OS from scratch if they want to catch up with the competition. That's the reason why Android, WebOS and the iPhone have so much success, they're all new OS'es, created by new standards instead of the 2000 standards WM has.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WM 6.5 was never meant to be earth shattering but a stepping stone to WM 7. I believe this is MS last chance of redemption as they have lost ground for over a decade. Standing by for the real difference of WM7 ! IT's COMING !! Good luck MS! However from a hardware perspective, HD2 Kicks Ass !!

granted for a long time the ifun was tied into an exclusive deal with o2 but that never,imho,excused the exorbitant tarifs that were charged for it then or since and as such I'm proud to say I've given it a wide berth (appart from prodding someone else's just to see what all the fuss was about) and at the end of the day the question you have to ask yourself is: "did you ever see anyone drooling over an iphone?" the first purchase I'll make for a HD2 when I get mine is a wetsuit for it!

Hi the-uki,
I see many of your points, but please tell me:
Why are you looking for WM-Apps only in this crappy shop??? Why are you not a bit more autonomous to find the thousands and thousands WM-Apps in the www by yourself, without the helping of an app-store? I think we are all old enough to help ourselves, so this is not a negative aspect you know
Greets,
Bluecharge

LOL - I read these threads with interest..
I've never owned an iPhone of any kind, probably one of the very few tech gadgets out that I didn't convince myself I needed in my life. Have always been a Nokia phone man and Windows Mobile PDA man, then as of the last few years have been just about coping with a single device running WM6.1 (Diamond) and now 6.5 with the HD2.
I think WM comes up short in many areas, and I'm comparing it to just a normal bog standard Nokia phone here!, but getting there. I can still txt quicker on any basic Nokia; that said at least I can actually txt on a WM phone now!
Anyways, I have two longstanding Vodafone contracts, yet I always seem to buy offline (providers never seem to have what I want). Being slightly more cost conscious at the moment (ish!) I was pleased to be able to get my HD2 on Vodafone. I now have my other contract which is due an upgrade (has been for something like 4 yrs lol) and I'm tempted to get an iPhone just for the hell of it (like the idea of getting a subsidised handsets for a change after all these years!) and give it a go. Have I really been missing out on greatness??! Who knows.. I almost want to not like it )) however equally I might well be won over.
Doubt anyone actually cares. But I'll probably let you know non-the-less!

I have to say people do go on don't they. All this talk of iPhone this HD2 that - surely it all comes down to a myriad of personal preferences.
As far as I am concerned I have owned many, many phones right back to the Motorla MicroTAC, and to be fair we have come a bloody long way since then. All the latest phones are pretty spectacular in one way or another. I just don't get all the whinging,whining and comparing that goes on. I fancied an iPhone as I just felt it was something I needed to own at some point. I intrinsically have nothing against the iPhone - the problem is that the tariffs they are offered on are just not competitive compared to other phone contracts. This is surely a big deciding factor for a lot of people.
To this end we all make our personal choices based on many differing factors, it really serves no purpose arguing over which phone is best.

OneGoodKnock said:
I have to say people do go on don't they. All this talk of iPhone this HD2 that - surely it all comes down to a myriad of personal preferences.
As far as I am concerned I have owned many, many phones right back to the Motorla MicroTAC, and to be fair we have come a bloody long way since then. All the latest phones are pretty spectacular in one way or another. I just don't get all the whinging,whining and comparing that goes on. I fancied an iPhone as I just felt it was something I needed to own at some point. I intrinsically have nothing against the iPhone - the problem is that the tariffs they are offered on are just not competitive compared to other phone contracts. This is surely a big deciding factor for a lot of people.
To this end we all make our personal choices based on many differing factors, it really serves no purpose arguing over which phone is best.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here here, what this man said!
I do think the OP intended to write a genuine head-to-head, however I think then seemed to get too involved in the fact that his own personal opinion is with the iPhone and therefore nullified any real level comparative value.
Each to their own and all that..

I live in USA and switched to the iPhone 2 years ago. I had used WM for many years until I switched. I was reluctant, but am now quite used to the device.
When the HD2 surfaced, I was being pulled back to WM, as I HAD to try it out.
SO, as an iPhone user trying to go back to WM, it is hard. I must agree with the OP that the fruit phone is much easier to use, especially with the App Store and iTunes.
I understand that XDA-Dev is WM-centered and I have been a big fan of this site and come for WM info. I used to cook ROMs quite a bit. You can't do that with the iPhone.
I will say that the HD2 is a beautiful phone. The screen is amazing. Having not used WM for a couple years, it has come a long way, thanks in large part to HTC. If I had 3G here on the HD2, I might be more aggressive trying it out. I think I will get a VZ Mifi and try it out more.
So, don't bash! I love both phones, but being an iPhone user, I am spoiled.

the-uki said:
Would be interested in your thoughts
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My thoughts? Simple. You should have gotten an iPhone 3GS instead of a HD2 as you're clearly more suited to that platform. I also agree with what has been said, you're clearly biased towards Apple's device so there was no real comparison in your post.

Pls convince me not to wait for iPhone 4g

Seriously annoyed with myself right now. Waited for this HD2 for a while now and it JUST became available on my corp website (US-Tmo) - could pick it up now if I wanted.
Of course now I'm considering if I wouldn't want to wait it out for the new iPhone to get announced June 7 and then roll onto my corp plan.
I specifically bought an iPod Touch so I would NOT be tempted to buy an iPhone for the wrong reasons.
But after suffering through 4 Sprint TP1's, and now on a Sprint TP2, I'm less than thrilled - and maybe wondering if I should just give up and go to dark side to get reliable operation. That is my biggest issue - phone is always stuttering and doing stuff I don't want it to - despite the upgrade to Sense 2.5, I still feel like I'm fighting the phone half the time.
I really really like the open source nature of winmo and hate the box Jobs creates around his products, but in my experience with my iTouch - it just works.
I played with the HD2 in the store and while the screen is much better now, I still felt I was trying to convince myself the keyboard and browser were as good as my iTouch - and that's the first sign I guess they're not.
Anyway, have at me - I'm just on the fence now.
EDIT FOR CLARIFICATION: I should point out, the only reason I went to the TP2 was Sprint forced me to burn an upgrade as I was "so close" to my 1 yr warranty they wouldn't process another upgrade and staunchly refused to move me to TP2 w/o fee as the famous memo said they should. However, I only upgraded after I was given written proof they will let me out of my contract with no ETF if I'm unhappy for any reason. So I have a get out of jail free card I intend to use as soon as I make up my mind and screw them right back.

Why stop there? Why not wait for the iphone 5g or the HD3?

Get what "you" want!!
You are going to hear how good this phone is!! I love it! But it is not for everyone. If you like easy, stay with what you are used to. No one can decide for you. I researched for months,before it came out. I'm happy with what it is, & has, not what it might be or get!!

ive seen the iphone hype and i dont care
a whole bunch of people dont care about hype, ironically they themselves are a demographic group.
i ordered my hd2 yesterday when my network rang me by suprise 3 months early offering an upgrade.
i guess they knew some pretty new phones were gonna be out (or at least in serious pre-release hype) when my contract expired.
i have an hd1 and just ordered my hd2 (arrives in a few hours ahem) i guess its pretty late in terms of how long the phone has been out, but i was always put off by the screen being too big to be a 'phone' as the hd1 is the maximum size in my opinion. i wanted the hd2 to be exactly what it is now, but the same size as the hd1.
why would you want an iphone anyway?
i have an iphone... i bought it dirt cheap broken it looked like it had been run over. i fixed it and got everything working, even jailbroke it put some apps etc but i never bothered to put it back together because i have a hd.
i actually use my phone. i use contacts, calendar, etc i remote desktop to my main pc. about a hundred other things as well, even though 'theres an app for that' on the ipod wm is just better.
xda... roms... i think youre just having trouble coming to terms with the fact that while iphones are good (dont get me wrong) and the new iphone will be good too, its just not the right phone for you.
thats something i can accept, lots of people feel like they HAVE to prefer the iphone.
basically a guy that doesnt even have his hd2 yet is trying to convince you to go for the phone you want, not the phone that wants to be loved the most (deep psychological implications there lol) so the hd2 must be good. its definately going down in history as an epic phone lol

lude219 said:
Why stop there? Why not wait for the iphone 5g or the HD3?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thats not good advice, the iphone 6g is almost out lol
maybe he has a 10 year contract

darknyt said:
Seriously annoyed with myself right now. Waited for this HD2 for a while now and it JUST became available on my corp website (US-Tmo) - could pick it up now if I wanted.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so basically, what you have been waiting for has finally arrived.
Of course now I'm considering if I wouldn't want to wait it out for the new iPhone to get announced June 7 and then roll onto my corp plan.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the thing is you always get wacky efficiency ideas in your head when you see the light at the end of the tunnel. (the tunnel being the contract, and the light being the upgrade).
even if its not about upgrades and youre just buying phones, its intelligent to question outcomes of alternative solutions to decisions you have made.
I specifically bought an iPod Touch so I would NOT be tempted to buy an iPhone for the wrong reasons.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so basically you already have an iphone. the ipod is basically all the selling points of an iphone, without the phone. if youre thinking yes, but the new iphone will be better than your current ipod touch then i guess thats true, but then whats the point of having that anyway then?
if you buy the hd2 are you gonna buy the next gen ipod touch to compensate for not having an iphone?
But after suffering through 4 Sprint TP1's, and now on a Sprint TP2, I'm less than thrilled - and maybe wondering if I should just give up and go to dark side to get reliable operation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i think the hd2 has been pretty much been given the overall thumbs up by most of the world now its a pretty safe bet. look at how the reviews of the tp2 etc changed over time, the hype and novelty wore off and people moved on. the reviews for the hd2 are consistant now, even picking up as they come out on more networks.
That is my biggest issue - phone is always stuttering and doing stuff I don't want it to - despite the upgrade to Sense 2.5, I still feel like I'm fighting the phone half the time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sense is not your only option...
also, what is your phone doing that you dont want it to? running apps while youre on the phone is a big problem for many people that can be solved v easily.
if you feel like youre fighting against the fault then that is because of the user interface.
it takes too many clicks to do a lot of things in sense 2.5 too.
shortcuts help a lot. getting small apps to toggle wifi etc and do what you do commonly make your phone muuuuch easier to use.
why dont you say what you mean specifically?
I really really like the open source nature of winmo and hate the box Jobs creates around his products, but in my experience with my iTouch - it just works.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes but so does wm. there are stable versions of everything on wm that the iphone does.
I played with the HD2 in the store and while the screen is much better now, I still felt I was trying to convince myself the keyboard and browser were as good as my iTouch - and that's the first sign I guess they're not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you can install many different browsers. many stable and fast.
there are many different keyboards you can install on wm too...
different looks, different layouts, built in functions like copy and paste (by holding a key), shortcuts, numberpads, swipe, commercial ones, freeware, much more flexible. you can even put the iphone keyboard skin on your 'much better' screen of the hd2.
Anyway, have at me - I'm just on the fence now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
enjoy

I think the only really compelling reason to go for an HD2 over an iPhone 4G is the 4.3" screen. The thing is enormous, and while I don't watch movies on the go (the HD2 can't really play HD movies anyway), the screen is just awesome-- every other phone screen now looks tiny to me. I prefer the industrial design on the HD2 to that of the iPhone 3G/3GS (maybe it seems novel because I've never seen a single other HD2 in the wild, whereas everyone and their dog has an iPhone), but the 4G iPhone is pretty sleek, so we'll have to see.
The HD2's capacitive screen is a big step up from old WM phones, but its accuracy is still not quite at iPhone levels, and despite the huge screen and the variety of keyboards available (after experimenting, I generally stick with the HTC one anyway), I still can't type nearly as accurately (and thus quickly) on the HD2 as on the iPhone. I think the main reason is Apple's still-best-in-class autocorrection (HTC's XT9 mode is so bad that I stick with normal entry, which has no autocorrect at all).
Snapdragon makes the HD2 faster than phones like the TP2, but it still has all the usual Windows Mobile problems (lagging, inconsistent behavior, things inexplicably stop working, needing to soft reset, etc.). The CPU is damn fast, so as a result it sometimes does fly, but it goes to waste in WM, which just delivers highly inconsistent performance. As a phone, my 2G iPhone (with a lowly 400 MHz ARM11 CPU) is much more consistent. I can answer every call that comes in on the iPhone without issue, I never have problems sending/receiving emails, etc., which is not quite true for the HD2 (which sometimes has the black screen of death, slows down tremendously, or just plain locks up, requiring a battery pull).
In sum, the HD2 is the greatest WM 6.x phone that will ever be made, but it's still a WM phone. So that means flexibility and customizability, but it also means having to fiddle with regular ROM flashes to get basic things working, a severe lack of third-party applications, and inconsistency throughout. No HD2 ROM is stable, fast, and bug-free to an iPhone-like level, or even anywhere close.
If you want something that "just works," the iPhone is your answer. I just wouldn't spend too much time with an HD2 beforehand though-- the enormous screen may hook you .

lude219 said:
Why stop there? Why not wait for the iphone 5g or the HD3?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because I have jumped onto what was available at the time thinking that same thing and suffered through a crappy phone for a year and having Sprint completely **** me around over it. It's a complete crapshoot, I know. But I'm just trying to be patient with this and not jump on the HD2 just because it's there now, when we all know the announcement of the iPhone is less than 3 weeks away unless Jobs gets his panties in a knot. Just giving myself options between the two most likely candidates.

I can sum it up for you in 3 words...
"No Flash Support"
End of game...

flexibility <> performance
decide for urself.
but u asked for opinions, so..
a friend is using the iphone OS 4.0 beta3 on his iphone 3gs, for me, it suxx, i really dont like it..
i never recommend an iphone, cause its just a way too expensive for so less things
maybe u could go for android, wich is fast and stable on a device like the desire.. much cheaper and still better hardware than an iphone. i dont think the iphone 4g will get hardware like the desire or hd2 has...
i used everything, winmo, android, iphone..
winmo is really flexible, iphone is very fast without lag, but android got both.. its flexible and fast. maybe u should try this?^^

-1
Pfffff tired of those useless threads ....
if you want one , buy one or wait until it came out ..
But why the hell are you asking a bunch of winmo guys if it is a good choice...
What sort of answer are you looking For ?
to stick to the thread a bit more ....
Wait for 4G ! OR 5G ! or Ngage 4.3 or Nintendo 4DS phone (seems to be great
Sorry i'm not exactly friendly here ....
But .... i'm tired of that ...

To sum up the HD2:
1) One of the most powerful smartphones available.
2) The best chefs on xda cook for it
3) The best programmers develop mods for it (Co0kie's Home Tab etc)
4) Smooth operation
5) Great screen for movies and browsing
6) Overall a fantastic phone
7) You can play StarCraft on it
Yes, you could wait for the next iPhone. Or the HD3. Such is technology, that whatever you buy one day, will always be obsolete the next. Live for the moment, get the HD2, you will not regret it. Even if it doesn't perform exactly as you want in stock (I had practically no problems with stock performance thankfully) just get a custom ROM, make a few tweaks (excellent thread full of tweaks in HD2 General), and it WILL be an excellent phone.

besides talking, what do u use ur phone 4? which one can meet ur requirements as a user?..

Hey ! IT IS SO EASY !!!! BUY BOTH and THEN decide !

I would not by HD2 today. Because of windows. It's even worse since WM6.5 is becoming obsolete. HTC did great job with HD2 in masking WM. It almost seems like different OS. So I'm not entirely unhappy with it.
On the other hand I would not buy anything with smaller display today.
I would not buy any iPhone. Yes, they are cool, well thought out. Really lovely devices. But company policies suck. Also .. it is smaller then HD2.
It seems to me there is only one solution to this: Android.

xlr8me said:
I can sum it up for you in 3 words...
"No Flash Support"
End of game...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I prob need a serious primer in what I'm doing wrong, but I was attempting to play flash videos through skyfire just tonight over my home wifi - it was a freaking joke. Literally like a slideshow.

Dr.Sid said:
I would not by HD2 today. Because of windows. It's even worse since WM6.5 is becoming obsolete. HTC did great job with HD2 in masking WM. It almost seems like different OS. So I'm not entirely unhappy with it.
On the other hand I would not buy anything with smaller display today.
I would not buy any iPhone. Yes, they are cool, well thought out. Really lovely devices. But company policies suck. Also .. it is smaller then HD2.
It seems to me there is only one solution to this: Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, sorry - I forgot to say - Android is a no-no. Our IT dept (multinational, professional services firm so touchy about security) did extensive testing and Android doesn't meet our security requirements. Maybe when they get their **** together. We only just got the iPhone on our plan last year - partly due to cost negotiations, but also initially for security.

darknyt said:
Android doesn't meet our security requirements.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's interesting to know
Maybe u should check this thread
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=679348

DontHate said:
so basically, what you have been waiting for has finally arrived.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup.
DontHate said:
the thing is you always get wacky efficiency ideas in your head when you see the light at the end of the tunnel. (the tunnel being the contract, and the light being the upgrade).
even if its not about upgrades and youre just buying phones, its intelligent to question outcomes of alternative solutions to decisions you have made.
so basically you already have an iphone. the ipod is basically all the selling points of an iphone, without the phone. if youre thinking yes, but the new iphone will be better than your current ipod touch then i guess thats true, but then whats the point of having that anyway then?
if you buy the hd2 are you gonna buy the next gen ipod touch to compensate for not having an iphone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's really more about having a phone that works more consistently. Nope will stick with my current iTouch - wife and kids usually keep it at home anyway.
DontHate said:
i think the hd2 has been pretty much been given the overall thumbs up by most of the world now its a pretty safe bet. look at how the reviews of the tp2 etc changed over time, the hype and novelty wore off and people moved on. the reviews for the hd2 are consistant now, even picking up as they come out on more networks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
DontHate said:
sense is not your only option...
also, what is your phone doing that you dont want it to? running apps while youre on the phone is a big problem for many people that can be solved v easily.
if you feel like youre fighting against the fault then that is because of the user interface.
it takes too many clicks to do a lot of things in sense 2.5 too.
shortcuts help a lot. getting small apps to toggle wifi etc and do what you do commonly make your phone muuuuch easier to use.
why dont you say what you mean specifically?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I feel I made a bad choice picking up the TP2 that really only seems like an upgraded keyboard and bigger screen compared to TP1. Other than that, same ****ty internals. They made it bigger, but didn't change anything that would actually help perf. (clarification - I only upgraded as I have written proof they will let me out of contract for free if I'm unhappy for any reason because of how badly treated me on TP1) I'm sure part of the problem is the resistive screen, but tabs often don't scroll smoothly (like laggy as hell) and I end up not where I wanted to be, or have to get there in increments (click one tab, then another to get close enough to see music). That's another thing - wish winmo made someway to always get at music app quickly - can take forever to get back into it. Phone is just often slow - like last night I was trying to get back into mail and the phone just sat there on the home screen with the clock halfway between 11 and 12, obv hanging up for 15-20 secs.
But yeah, it's mostly inputs not working when I touch them, virtual keyboard being completely ****ty for quick entries, hanging, slowing down, making me wait for it. Just not as responsive as I'd like. Again, comparing its operation to my iTouch, just very different.
DontHate said:
yes but so does wm. there are stable versions of everything on wm that the iphone does.
you can install many different browsers. many stable and fast.
there are many different keyboards you can install on wm too...
different looks, different layouts, built in functions like copy and paste (by holding a key), shortcuts, numberpads, swipe, commercial ones, freeware, much more flexible. you can even put the iphone keyboard skin on your 'much better' screen of the hd2.
enjoy
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

madindehead said:
To sum up the HD2:
1) One of the most powerful smartphones available.
2) The best chefs on xda cook for it
3) The best programmers develop mods for it (Co0kie's Home Tab etc)
4) Smooth operation
5) Great screen for movies and browsing
6) Overall a fantastic phone
7) You can play StarCraft on it
Yes, you could wait for the next iPhone. Or the HD3. Such is technology, that whatever you buy one day, will always be obsolete the next. Live for the moment, get the HD2, you will not regret it. Even if it doesn't perform exactly as you want in stock (I had practically no problems with stock performance thankfully) just get a custom ROM, make a few tweaks (excellent thread full of tweaks in HD2 General), and it WILL be an excellent phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, I lived for the moment and got the TP1 from my old tilt. Huge mistake. And Sprint knew it. And still jacked me around over it. I hate them.

What you think: Trade my 8g iPhone 3G for a HTC Pure

I have had my iPhone for about a year now and it is Jailbroken. I am not a huge fan of iOS, especially iOS4. I have an oppurtunity to trade it straight up for an HTC Pure. I'd thought I'd ask you guys if you thought it would be a good deal or not. I could go to an iPhone thread and ask the same question, but I know the response I will get from all the Apple Nuts. I figured you'd guys would be a little more level headed and sane. I have used WM before and have owned a Touch Pro 2 on T-Mobile. I got the iPhone from work because it was only $50, but I haven't been really impressed with it. So I was just wondering if you guys thought it would be a fair enough trade.

I'd trade it in a heart beat.

What fuctionality are you lookign For?
I have owned the WM devices for a long time and really like them. What exactly are you looking for? The biggest difference to me would be the apps of IOS vs. the flexibility of WM6.5. If you are so-so about the iphone, I wonder why? Personally, I have friends that really like the simplicity and execution of the iphone models. I personally want freedom from carrier control. I currently own the Pure and love it. You need to so some minor tweeks to improve performance though. Android seems like WM7 (i.e. wm6.5+). Good luck with your decision.
I hope there continue some WM6.5+ development that helps keep this OS alive a little longer.
Good Luck.

pure blows the 3g away...cpu, memory, everything...apps on the other hand are not as complete

Windows Mobile v iPhone 3
It all depends what you use it for. If its for the basic functions call/sms/apps, then in my opinion its a no-brainer, keep the iphone. It does the job.
However if you want more from a phone and not too bothered about the rubbish WM interface and the need for a stylus, go for WM.
I've use HTC phones with WM for the past 4/5 years. Im thinking my next phone will be either a HTC/Android or iPhone4.

mpathan said:
It all depends what you use it for. If its for the basic functions call/sms/apps, then in my opinion its a no-brainer, keep the iphone. It does the job.
However if you want more from a phone and not too bothered about the rubbish WM interface and the need for a stylus, go for WM.
I've use HTC phones with WM for the past 4/5 years. Im thinking my next phone will be either a HTC/Android or iPhone4.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree that WM interface is rubbish, however HTC Sense is far superior to Apple OS interfece IMO.
Also, I never use my stylus...
I also agree that Android is probably the next step forward as WM seems to be taking an Applesque aprpoach in WM7. Big mistake....

She's going to go for her 4th iPhone and I don't need the 3rd. We'll likely sell it to a T-mobile user.
My Pure with an NRG rom does what I want. My 4th WM phone. It's a long way away from my first Razr.utility phone but I don't use much more.
A Razr 3 could do a good contact list and calendar and sync to a pc via Motorola Phone Tools. Text and MediaNet too. A real phone! BTW, the Pure is about the same size as an opened Razr.
Somehow there is almost always a PC around and I use that for most of what people want the PPC phones anyway.