Related
Ok everyone,
There's been alot of movement both forward and laterally on the vogue-android project lately, and while it's all been great I'm having some concerns.
There has been alot of forking lately of the project. Different builds are great and I can't encourage that enough, but with all of the changes, and great developments being made to the rootfs and kernel we are losing alot of what made this project going great.
There's such a jumble of builds, out there right now it's getting confusing for everyone. So please guys can we move the project back to centralization?
By that I mean build threads are for system images only.
Changes to the rootfs's and kernel's are fantastic, but please can we make a new thread just for those?
As well to all the kaiser guys. Don't get me wrong I think it's great that so many of these files are working so good for you guys but can you keep development of your port to your forum, so there's less confusion for the new people? I've said it lots, if any of the kaiser guys wanna port over the builds I've ported to kaiser's go ahead, but please post them in the kaiser forum.
I'll happily keep the google code page updated with new bundles, that have been tested and confirmed stable, that page is not for specific people's work only, but for vogue/kaiser files that can be considered the standard files to use.
I support this.
well put. i feel the exact same way. i've given up till a bundle comes out cause im confused what is the newest or if it will work(not a fan of the kaiser now that they took over). I'm really hoping for more development on the android rom but im a script kiddie and no developer.. unfortunately
thanks for bringing this up
I could not agree more!
I've actually returned to running WinMo on my phone because I've become so lost in the Android project. There's so many different forks out there, and all sorts of random files being uploaded to Google Code, I have absolutely no idea what is what anymore.
It was going really well when vilord and dzo were working on it, now suddenly it seems both of them are out of it and the "vanilla" Android 1.5 builds are no longer being worked on. There hasn't been a basic "system" update in nearly a month now.
And to make matters worse, there's no clear explanation of what's what anywhere and nobody is posting proper change logs. So all these new files keep popping up with no word on what they're for and what's changed.
I just want to run Android on my phone, with no stupid skins, UI replacements or massive customizations of any kind... and I don't know how to do that anymore.
I'm not really sure why all this work seems to be focused on customizations right now anyways, when there are much more important things to work on like Bluetooth, aGPS, and a flashable ROM.
Yes, this is most definitively needed, not to stifle anyone's creativity, but to allow the maximum number of people to enjoy the project. Otherwise it's far too possible that all the various ports will just turn people off to Android, and it's far too important to allow that to happen. I've already asked mssmison to post whole, relatively stable packages so people don't get overwhelmed with all the various components and builds. Maybe a re-fresh of the packages every 2 or 3 weeks, along with the testing packages for all you brave souls to make it more user friendly.
I'm going to re-organize the google code page for vogue tonight so it should be more clear for everyone. vilord isn't out of the project, he just is moving
I've cleaned up the google code page a bit, I've depreciated some older downloads and the older bundle.
I keep all my builds separate and off the vogue-android page too keep it clean and focused on the main bundle there which is android-1.5-x. The test rootfs.imgs that I put out are only for testing purposes and are my personal experiments related to hero and they stay on vogue-hero. They do not apply to non hero builds and I try to state that in the threads I started for my other two non hero builds. I'm not supporting squashfs right now and I'm not going to be posting builds in squashfs right now. If people think that squashfs is the way to go then all images need to be in squashfs including android-1.5x builds. That would avoid the main squashfs rootfs/kernel/initrd fork thats going on with people downloading the squashfs base files. I don't support kaiser wifi builds of my hero images because they don't work for the vogue. I'll be taking down all kaiser/squashfs related files on vogue-hero until further notice and create vogue bundles of the files that work with each build.
i agree about too many different builds and files mixed together, it's really confusing to an average user like me who's sorta new to android. you devs should package up a zip with all the most stable, needed files for you specific builds so we can't mess up and download something that might not work right. myself i use my phone daily and for work, so i need stability.
mssmison said:
Ok everyone,
There's been alot of movement both forward and laterally on the vogue-android project lately, and while it's all been great I'm having some concerns.
There has been alot of forking lately of the project. Different builds are great and I can't encourage that enough, but with all of the changes, and great developments being made to the rootfs and kernel we are losing alot of what made this project going great.
There's such a jumble of builds, out there right now it's getting confusing for everyone. So please guys can we move the project back to centralization?
By that I mean build threads are for system images only.
Changes to the rootfs's and kernel's are fantastic, but please can we make a new thread just for those?
As well to all the kaiser guys. Don't get me wrong I think it's great that so many of these files are working so good for you guys but can you keep development of your port to your forum, so there's less confusion for the new people? I've said it lots, if any of the kaiser guys wanna port over the builds I've ported to kaiser's go ahead, but please post them in the kaiser forum.
I'll happily keep the google code page updated with new bundles, that have been tested and confirmed stable, that page is not for specific people's work only, but for vogue/kaiser files that can be considered the standard files to use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 to this! It's getting cluttered and confusing... BUT AWESOME!
stickus said:
+1 to this! It's getting cluttered and confusing... BUT AWESOME!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
is it looking better now on the google code page?
whatever is in that new base files package really sped up my build from zen, ill tell you that much, now my phone recieves calls too. the only thing i notice is im back to the old style button map settings for adjusting volume and waking up the phone and such?
things look a lot cleaner on the google code page now... just DL-ing the new bundle you posted and we'll see how things go from there. Glad to hear that that old button layout is back, not really a fan of the newer one.
all i know is there is no lag to my build at all now, WOW...nice work guys!
fixxxer2008 said:
whatever is in that new base files package really sped up my build from zen, ill tell you that much, now my phone recieves calls too. the only thing i notice is im back to the old style button map settings for adjusting volume and waking up the phone and such?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All thanks to the bundle of files go to pmos, him and no one else. I just put together the system.
The button thing was accidental, however I have had alot of problems with my camera button not working intermittantly, we are working on a way of it being user selectable at boot.
I would also agree that some sort of organization is definitely needed. I think that system image threads should be condensed or organized in some way also. Having 15 threads, each with not too much information on what the build actually is, and info on the new update on page 15... just makes it hard for everyone. New comers and people who are experienced and trying to help others.
TheKartus said:
I would also agree that some sort of organization is definitely needed. I think that system image threads should be condensed or organized in some way also. Having 15 threads, each with not too much information on what the build actually is, and info on the new update on page 15... just makes it hard for everyone. New comers and people who are experienced and trying to help others.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are 5 threads for builds. One for the kernel.
welll my phone is still running good today with that new bundle that was posted last night.
im still getting used to the old style button mapping but to be honest i like it better this way.
I think this post goes in the wrong direction.
The best thing of Android is that devs from different mobiles are working toguether to improve our phones.
I´m a polaris user and in the development of android for polaris developers with different phones help a lot
What we need is an Android section as it´s being petitioned in order to develop all toguether. Of course with organization.
Let´s think as Android and not only as vogue
iseeka said:
I think this post goes in the wrong direction.
The best thing of Android is that devs from different mobiles are working toguether to improve our phones.
I´m a polaris user and in the development of android for polaris developers with different phones help a lot
What we need is an Android section as it´s being petitioned in order to develop all toguether. Of course with organization.
Let´s think as Android and not only as vogue
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree but remember this is a vogue forum, so for the average user that comes here, they have a vogue. If you guys have a polaris dev get him to contact me and we'll look into making the bundles work right with your phones as well.
Again this is why I posted the poll to move the dev to another forum where we can have proper organization
so i would like to learn how to do things for my phone and possibly help with the dev community. but i know practically nothing about linux or how to do anything useful. i am looking for links or other useful information to help me get started. i have lots of time on my hands and learn pretty quick. i assume i would start with the sdk (would i use the 1.5 one since thats what our phones are currently running on, or is the 2.0 out yet? and would i try from there), but other than that have no idea what else would be useful.
so.... yeah. helpful link to good info or any good e books, or anything like that that will get me going. thanks in advance
i would use the newest SDK, 2.0.1, and make sure that it will function on the emulators for both 1.5 and 2.0.1, frankly if you arent already proficient with linux or java, this wont be a easy thing to get into. However I WILL point out how threads like this are terribly pointless... you arent helping anyone out, and frankly you're asking for information that is quite available.
thanks for nothing. other than making me feel stupid.
Some help, maybe.
ix3u said:
thanks for nothing. other than making me feel stupid.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been spending quite a bit of time on the threads here, I too am in search of more information specific to the android. I don't know that I'll ever be able to contribute too much to the devs, but at least I can understand my phone better, and help out with answering questions on the forums.
I would think that starting with something like creating a theme would be a good place to start, and would get you a little more familiar with the ways of android. Then I would move up into other things, and before you know it you will be much more proficient. It's all about starting somewhere. (and having a good backup)
Here's some posts / links that I have collected that i thought might aid me when i create some time to start the same endeavor...
* Ratcom's guide to creating Theme's
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=574167
* An Android Developers Guide (with tutorials, and tons of info)
http://developer.android.com/guide/index.html
* How-to's regarding android application development:
http://www.brighthub.com/mobile/google-android/topics/guides.aspx
* Tutorials and exercises
http://blogoscoped.com/archive/2007-11-19-n27.html
I haven't looked at most of those, but hopefully they will be a good start. I look forward to the day when I start looking at them too.
Hopefully that's helpful, it's all I can offer.
Good luck, and godspeed
-AndyS-
thanks., that is more like what i was looking for
jmhalder said:
i would use the newest SDK, 2.0.1, and make sure that it will function on the emulators for both 1.5 and 2.0.1, frankly if you arent already proficient with linux or java, this wont be a easy thing to get into. However I WILL point out how threads like this are terribly pointless... you arent helping anyone out, and frankly you're asking for information that is quite available.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm. So much for helping someone out who at least has the desire to learn and grow to be more. Communist much? or just a Liberal Democrat? I applaud him for trying. Who knows more about where to get the information other than XDA? Hell a google search on this stuff turns up mostly useless garbage anyways. Why spend hours digging it up when someone else may know a good resource.
Lets refrain from flames/rebuttals please.
I have a few FAQ's and tutorials on my site. Also checking things like my release notes and mind map (linked in v1.0 release) will help. There aren't any full on tutorials but it's just a good place for general info.
Check my sig.
As flipz stated, there's no good centralized place for organized information. The best advice is truly to search this site, and search with google. It's an uphill battle getting that base of knowledge built up to get you going. I know, I'm still working my way up the hill. I thought about putting a site together to organize and share information but that would take away too much from what little time I have to spend on rom developement.
I doub't that is really the answer you were hoping to get but unfortunately thats the grim reality of things. Perhaps someone with a lot more free time than I, will put together a site of their own and compile and organize all kinds of good information in a central place. It would truly be a boon to the android community.
obelisk79 said:
As flipz stated, there's no good centralized place for organized information. The best advice is truly to search this site, and search with google. It's an uphill battle getting that base of knowledge built up to get you going. I know, I'm still working my way up the hill. I thought about putting a site together to organize and share information but that would take away too much from what little time I have to spend on rom developement.
I doub't that is really the answer you were hoping to get but unfortunately thats the grim reality of things. Perhaps someone with a lot more free time than I, will put together a site of their own and compile and organize all kinds of good information in a central place. It would truly be a boon to the android community.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd be happy to bring some writers on to my site or to host some tutorials or anything that others have written. My job offers me a lot of flexibility and free time, however like you I am spending all of it developing right now. This kitchen is kicking my butt.
Edit: We'll see if I get any hits. http://geekfor.me/news/wanted-writers-for-faq-tutorial-help/
I may be able to help. My freetime seems to come and go, but I’ve always been pretty good at making How-To’s.
What format would be best?
html,pdf,etc…
ix3u said:
so i would like to learn how to do things for my phone and possibly help with the dev community. but i know practically nothing about linux or how to do anything useful. i am looking for links or other useful information to help me get started. i have lots of time on my hands and learn pretty quick. i assume i would start with the sdk (would i use the 1.5 one since thats what our phones are currently running on, or is the 2.0 out yet? and would i try from there), but other than that have no idea what else would be useful.
so.... yeah. helpful link to good info or any good e books, or anything like that that will get me going. thanks in advance
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good thread, thanks for starting it.
I'm in a pretty similar spot. 2 weeks ago I had zero exposure to or knowledge about Android or Linux. I'm proficient with Windows. In the last 2 weeks I've rooted, flashed RA 123, 151 & then 152. I backed up, ran an optimizer .zip file, restored, flashed fresh 1.0 and learned some very cool stuff. I'm comfortable in the terminal but I'm getting to where I'm not sure what I should or want to learn next. Also, although I've done these things easily half of it was just copying instructions from one of the fantastically helpful posts on this forum. Before I learn what to do next I'd like to understand the system better. I checked out wiki and ended up bookmarking a page that explains kernal computing, and a few others, lots of reading ahead
As a noob I have tried to learn without getting in the way too much. I'm glad you admitted your noobness and asked for some direction, you're not the only one who could use it!
obelisk79 said:
As flipz stated, there's no good centralized place for organized information. The best advice is truly to search this site, and search with google. It's an uphill battle getting that base of knowledge built up to get you going. I know, I'm still working my way up the hill. I thought about putting a site together to organize and share information but that would take away too much from what little time I have to spend on rom developement.
I doub't that is really the answer you were hoping to get but unfortunately thats the grim reality of things. Perhaps someone with a lot more free time than I, will put together a site of their own and compile and organize all kinds of good information in a central place. It would truly be a boon to the android community.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds like what the original replyee said but said much more tact.
I'm hoping that was a compliment in a round about way.
THIS is an amazing resource. I've stopped in there before but wasn't ready to poke around too much.
I'll see you guys/gals in the spring!
I'd like to offer some insight, but there's really not much more I could add than what's already stated and linked above. Everything you need to know can be found (usually) easily on the android developer site, or in a google search. The hard part is putting those pieces together to know what needs to be done in order to accomplish what. That's not an easy task: check out cyanogen's github projects (http://github.com/cyanogen). He's made modifications to the kernel, Android applications, core frameworks, configurations, recovery images, packaged resources/images, and more. It's not just one piece that goes into these builds.
Most of what you see around here (and this is certainly not to take away from all the great work I'm referring to, because this is just as important as everything else), are people modifying what was already done somewhere else, and making it work for their own phone. And really that's all it takes to move progress forward.
You don't have to be a linux whiz or a Java programmer to be able to make progress with your phone- you just need to understand how each particular piece works in order to make progress on that piece. If you want to make a theme, you need to know what jar or apk files contain the resources, and how to replace those images and styles. If you want to add support for the camera you need to know what linux driver it should use, and how Android expects to interact with that driver. Same for supporting accelerometer sensors, etc.
There's no definitive checklist of things you have to know before you can help development, it just depends on what what you want to help with, and your willingness to research how that particular piece works and what it would take to make the necessary changes.
maejrep,
Informative and encouraging. Thanks!
I have experimented with quite a few different ROM's, and have enjoyed trying them all out.
Just wanted to post a thought out there, and see if this would be worth pursuing or if something like this exists...
A table that compares the ROMs, version, refresh date, developers, features, additional software, bugs, etc, so folks can compare the different ROMs on one page.
Link the name of the ROM to its actual thread.
Just a thought I wanted to throw out there......
Thanks,
-Sf-
The closest thing that we have is this:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=649705
But, it doesn't lay it out all that clearly without having to go to each thread and read through. Also, it is about 5 weeks since it was last updated, and we all know how much has been done in the last few weeks (especially Froyo...).
I think this is a pretty good idea. If you want to do something like this, I'd be willing to lend a hand. I am on vacation this week so have a lot of free time anyway.
I think that we could build on that format -
Add major features, bugs, developer name, etc.
Thanks,
-Sf-
It's easier to just link to all of them... you can take the time to go through the Dev's home page. After all, that leaves it up to the topic creator to update every single ROM's bugs and updates, which you can't expect them to do.
Sure, it would be easier to do that...for the posters. But, I feel that the people wanting to check out the roms would appreciate a nice overview of features and bugs then having to wade through some of the toics which can be dozens of pages, if not more. I'll probably start working on this tomorrow, since I've been spending the day figuring out why my parents computer sucks so bad. Found it - 256MB of RAM. ugh lol
this IS a great idea...would be very hard to keep it up to date and what happens if the one guy that posted the topic falls off the face of the earth? as a lot of people seem to do.
not trying to stop it before it begins. i'm willing to comb a topic or two and submit my findings...gonna need a bunch of volunteers to do the same to get multiple ROMs listed.
dusthead said:
this IS a great idea...would be very hard to keep it up to date and what happens if the one guy that posted the topic falls off the face of the earth? as a lot of people seem to do.
not trying to stop it before it begins. i'm willing to comb a topic or two and submit my findings...gonna need a bunch of volunteers to do the same to get multiple ROMs listed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed - I have seen lists on other websites, and they still show evil eris 1.1 as the most up to date. However, that being said, we are the most active android forum out there, especially for the Eris. I think this has the best shot in being the most accurate on the web.
We already have a comparison guide.
Its called xda-developers.com!
Lazy...lazy...lazy....
Just read! Its the best way to fully understand the ROM anyways. Way better than a spreadsheet with checkmarks and whatnot.
But if someone was willing to take the time, which would undoubtedly take A LOT of time, to list pros, cons, features, bugs, versions, updates, and all that jazz, it MAY be worth looking. But we've seen stuff like this before, it gets created, and then never looked at again.
Great idea! Yes people are lazy for not doing their own homework...but there are so many ROMs out there. I have read through almost every page of topics to the 4 or 5 ROMs I have interest in, and often find myself confusing features, bugs, etc of those ROMs simply because there are SO many pages to read through and so much to keep up with(especially when some of these topics are in excess of 200 pages). Among these 200+ pages are maybe 25 pages really worth any knowledge of having about the ROM...the other 175 are filled with redundant information, outdated problems that have been solved, and off topic or unrelated posts.
DO IT!
I was kinda thinking about creating a guide on my website since I can't really think of anything else to do with the domain/server I have lol...
or if someone else wants to, I can give them FTP access to a folder and I'll just host it.
Just an idea.
es0tericcha0s said:
Sure, it would be easier to do that...for the posters. But, I feel that the people wanting to check out the roms would appreciate a nice overview of features and bugs then having to wade through some of the toics which can be dozens of pages, if not more. I'll probably start working on this tomorrow, since I've been spending the day figuring out why my parents computer sucks so bad. Found it - 256MB of RAM. ugh lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah... but what happens if you stop updating? And how will you determine whether bugs are just one persons or all of theirs? And almost every ROM page I've seen has the bugs listed on the first post. I'm just saying the current system isn't just "ok" it's the best way to do it. You don't have to read through the entire thread to know the bugs, you can read the first post.
Well, it looks like interest in this idea is underwhelming at best. I'd be all about putting some time into this, but not for 3 people...
Sounds good to me!
This sounds like a great idea to me. I'll admit it would probably take a great about of effort and time to create and maintain but I'd be more than willing to lend my efforts to put something like this together and help keep it up to date. For all of you who are happy with the current system, it will still be there so keep using it. I don't think this is meant to be a complete list of everything there is to know about a ROM, more of an overview (correct me if im wrong). Plus, this would be GREAT for people who've just rooted and are trying to figure out what to try first. We all know its important to read a thread in its entirety before you flash
Just my $0.02
f z o n g
TheFzong said:
This sounds like a great idea to me. I'll admit it would probably take a great about of effort and time to create and maintain but I'd be more than willing to lend my efforts to put something like this together and help keep it up to date. For all of you who are happy with the current system, it will still be there so keep using it. I don't think this is meant to be a complete list of everything there is to know about a ROM, more of an overview (correct me if im wrong). Plus, this would be GREAT for people who've just rooted and are trying to figure out what to try first. We all know its important to read a thread in its entirety before you flash
Just my $0.02
f z o n g
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree - this list should be an "easy" way to glance over the different ROMs, and do a high level comparison. So if someone prefer's hero ports for example, they can go to the developer's page to determine if that ROM is right for them.
Just like when you research out a new computer, I usually do a high level comparison at first before I start digging into the "nuts and bolts"
I don't think it's a bad idea necessarily, I don't mean to crap all over it but here is what would need to happen:
The poster of the thread would need to understand bugs and things that have to do with the ROM's. They would need to be able to differentiate between one person's bug and a bug that multiple people are having and one that everyone is having.
The poster would need to stay updating this... what happens when they get a new phone? What happens if their computer breaks? Blah blah blah there are a thousand ways you can stop.
Really what you need is a Wiki, that way multiple people could update the information. Developers could submit their own ROM updates if they wanted and users could add reviews, comments etc.
Hungry Man said:
I don't think it's a bad idea necessarily, I don't mean to crap all over it but here is what would need to happen:
The poster of the thread would need to understand bugs and things that have to do with the ROM's. They would need to be able to differentiate between one person's bug and a bug that multiple people are having and one that everyone is having.
The poster would need to stay updating this... what happens when they get a new phone? What happens if their computer breaks? Blah blah blah there are a thousand ways you can stop.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
for example. . . . what happens when your girlfriend kicks you out and you leave in a rage and forget your computer and storage drives. . . . (was working under the radar on something of the sort but low and behold victim of circumstance.
http://code.google.com/p/erisromtracker/
I'm primarily a web designer but know Rails as well, and a bit of PHP. I'd be willing to put some work into this, but I don't have time to do the whole thing on my own.
I'm thinking of a community-powered web app. Any registered user can edit anything. Edits can be "dugg" by other members to represent validity...I dunno, just some first thoughts.
I made the project page so that people could add ideas/etc and there would be an organized, sane place for figuring out how the whole thing would work, as well as a central repository for any work that actually gets done. It also just doesn't make a lot of sense to use a thread to do this, especially when we're trying to get around people using threads to do this.
^^^^
Eoghann said:
Really what you need is a Wiki, that way multiple people could update the information. Developers could submit their own ROM updates if they wanted and users could add reviews, comments etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
And this
Much better ideas because it's not just one person's job.
Man, I guess I'm one of the lazy ones! Actually, I've been looking through all the ROMs in lust (because I can't root - yet) and I need an easy way to figure out what the main differences are. I'd be in large favor of this!
I posted in an earlier thread that I was getting worried that there is so much noise in the Evo development section that high quality ROMs by dedicated programmers were getting lost in the fracas of those that feel slapping a new wallpaper on a ROM qualified as its own distribution.
I was thinking that the best solution would be to see if the community would be interested in a way to uprank and downrank distributions in a one stop gateway that would help everyone clearly see which ROMs are the brightest and the best.
To that effect, I've created a Google Moderator series that lists ROMs. You can put a checkbox next to the ones you support, and an X if there is one (or some) in particular that you had some bad mojo with. If one you love isn't there, you're more than free to add it yourself to get the voting going!
The best part is, you can change your votes at any time!
http://bit.ly/aaZbOD
This may work, this may suck. Time will tell if this can become at all useful
If you dig this idea, please bump it for awareness. Otherwise, we can let it disappear.
No harm, no foul
We've had 15 people contribute so far. The more we get, the more comprehensive the data!
I'll bump this. Before I used to check the thread rating and whichever ROM thread had the best rating, I would go in and test it out. This could help out.
This'll definitely help in deciding a ROM to flash. Bump.
Sure I'll support this...
NOTE: please don't use this list as a bible...once we start rooting phones, they can tend to have a mind of their own. Some roms run great on some phones but are unstable on others. Same goes for kernels and themes. Remember, YMMV.
Great Idea.
jd9900 said:
Sure I'll support this...
NOTE: please don't use this list as a bible...once we start rooting phones, they can tend to have a mind of their own. Some roms run great on some phones but are unstable on others. Same goes for kernels and themes. Remember, YMMV.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. Hopefully the whole "wisdom of the crowds" thing can at least push people in the right direction.
You all owe it to yourself and your phone to read the threads associated with these ROMs before flashing though!
I removed two added suggestions that did not follow the style of the vote. Please add roms not "MORE ROMS PLZ"
Awesome idea. Will vote.
Sticky this. I think it would clear up alot of questions too. Id say combine this idea with the release matrix from androidspin.com would be great.
for reference to what im talking about
http://db.androidspin.com/androidsp...id_build_base_os=&android_developer_id=&go=go
bump
this will be good for those rooting from froyo
sent from my baby. . . the evo 4-gees
I think that it's a great idea to add some sorting/ratings/details about all the roms out there, to anyone that hasn't been on these forums a while I'd assume it's quite overwhelming.
I'm not sure what the best idea is, as voting in a thumbs up/down fashion might not be the greatest way to show evaluation, I'm sure a lot of people with negatives are gonna be the ones with bugs or couldn't get it to work right.
In the end, I think rom reviews would be ideal, if we could get someone to do them. I remember shopping for a Nintendo DS cart, if anyone is familiar with them, and I found a website that had frequently updated reviews of the different available cartridges from the various teams that made them, and even though everyone knew the R4 brand cartridge I was able to get a good feel for the developers and features I was choosing from and I chose another brand that I was quite happy with.
I think voting makes it a popularity vs people with bugs/problems contest, more detailed voting (stars/categories) would end up being too tedious for most, and the spreadsheets, tho useful, don't really tell you everything you need to know.
Reviewers can also make the community more aware of who is making our kernels, the differences between them, available themes, battery life comparisons, etc.
We just need to find some people that swap roms enough and would be willing to do the write ups...
i think it will become a popularity contest which is part of the point, but the problem i see is that there are many die hard fans of this rom or that rom and i have no doubt they will negatively rate other roms just to try to move there fav rom up the list whether or not they used the rom, was something wrong with it, or not.
I think any type of ranking system is more hurtful then helpful. If you are a dev for a rom that isnt as popular or is new you may show at the bottom of the list even though your rom is bug free stable and fast. If people use this list as a true reference they will see your rom at the bottom or not on it at all and assume your rom isnt very good this could be very discouraging to the devs that even though they work hard and have a very solid rom they may not get many users and may be considered a "bad" rom since they haven't been around as long or arent one of the big 4-5 that people frequently use.
just my take on it. i like the review idea of the above user that along with nief's rom comparison that actually compares performance and battery life i think is the most helpful personally giving every rom its fair chance. it also takes popularity out of it to some degree and gives newer roms a fair chance vs coming in down 1000 votes.
I agree but people certainly do gravitate toward quality.
I took a lot of time to think about what the best way of doing this would be, and Moderator seems to be the best idea:
1. Reviews get outdated with each iteration. What you cite as problems now, can be fixed tomorrow.
2. The benchmarking idea is also bad since each phone is different. My phone pegged in the high 40s on old Linpack on most ROMs where others were seeing mid thirties. Again, outdated is an issue.
3. A poll on the site doesn't allow for other ROMs to be added easily
4. You can always change your mind.
Unfortunately, since the question is "what is everyone's favorite ROMs" is technically a popularity question, a popularity contest is what it is.
shameless TTT
Bump! Sticky?
Bump for fantastic happy goodness.
If this would have saved us from the inevitable 400 other threads started each week asking, "which ROM should I flash?", I think it could have been a great idea!
You have my vote I support it.
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well i thought i'd get this up before source for JB (4.1) drops... I'm looking for a dev willing to let me watch them as they build a ROM and make changes to that ROM... no i don't need to come over your house to do this... I was thinking of a live video stream of your screen as you do the work... if you're willing to allow me to watch and maybe answer a few questions in between, i'm willing to learn!!
i learn really fast if i'm watching someone do it which is why i'm taking this approach rather than trying to read through a bunch of threads on this topic... that stuff basically looks like a foreign language to me... especially when they talk linux stuff lol... i can catch on quickly but i need to SEE IT BEING DONE... not reading and having my brain decode what i just read...
so please pass this thread along... the site i'm looking to use is join.me and it can be viewed by more than one person... so if someone else is willing to jump in on the fun and the dev is cool with it... we all can watch as they work their magic...
preferably someone that's gonna be building on crespo/crespo4g... but i'll take whoever is willing to teach!!
disclaimer: i'm not even looking for a real "expert" on the subject... just someone to do the basic work so i can take notes and then do the stuff myself!!
PM me if you're a dev and willing to help out!! what do you have to lose? nothing really... you're just gonna load the program and let it stream as you do the stuff you normall would do...
sn: it doesn't have to be Jelly Bean... but seeing as source is coming out soon... i figured someone will want to start fresh and build from aosp... that's really where i'd like to start from!!
I'd love to watch too
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umm. the best way to do it is to just follow the step by step guides online. doesnt get much easier than that. you watching isn't going to help when they already have all the software installed
derekwilkinson said:
umm. the best way to do it is to just follow the step by step guides online. doesnt get much easier than that. you watching isn't going to help when they already have all the software installed
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thanks but i have everything i need to build a ROM installed and have already built one from CM9 source... i'm talking about all the other edits and things they do... ie: adding in or removing features of a ROM...
and if you re-read my OP... i said reading this stuff is like learning another language... i'm a visual learner... i need to SEE these things then do them... not read them and try to decode whatever i just read...
the1dynasty said:
thanks but i have everything i need to build a ROM installed and have already built one from CM9 source... i'm talking about all the other edits and things they do... ie: adding in or removing features of a ROM...
and if you re-read my OP... i said reading this stuff is like learning another language... i'm a visual learner... i need to SEE these things then do them... not read them and try to decode whatever i just read...
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I just happen to work for a company the makes tools to help visual learners.
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Yea I'm willing too. I got a few things going here. Along with ubuntu, sdk, java6, android kitchen. I'm more of a visual learner. I've been constantly researching to point where my brain hurts to think android. I need a break. But I'm willing as well. Some devs out there no even respond to help needed. I would love to watch Fergie716 at work tho.
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My video will be up tomorrow (today) in my MIUI thread. I have everything ready for it. I just had a bit too much to drink tonight (its 450am)
Tomorrow afternoon it'll be up
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I also like to watch.
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I agree with the OP, one thing I think is missing (or at least in my experience hard to find) in the Android ROM community is a set of guides on how to properly do things (branch with repo to make a mod, apply patches from other trees, add prebuilt apks, add source provided apps, integrate su, busybox, creating your own vendor, device, adding your kernel, etc)
It's all scattered all over the net, sure you can figure some of it out but if you lower the barrier of entry people will be able to focus their energy on doing better work somewhere else.
gparent said:
I agree with the OP, one thing I think is missing (or at least in my experience hard to find) in the Android ROM community is a set of guides on how to properly do things (branch with repo to make a mod, apply patches from other trees, add prebuilt apks, add source provided apps, integrate su, busybox, creating your own vendor, device, adding your kernel, etc)
It's all scattered all over the net, sure you can figure some of it out but if you lower the barrier of entry people will be able to focus their energy on doing better work somewhere else.
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i really couldn't have said it any better!!
i know Fergie usually puts out some great tutorials... i used his stuff when i was learning to theme... so hopefully he delivers on this as well... i would still like to do a live "webinar-type" of training tho if any dev is up for that!!
we can get a time going so that everyone can login at the same time and see what's being done...
I'd also like to see how its done, I would love to be able to cook up some things and then release a ROM to the public. I'm sure it's not easy but I'm willing to take a wack at it
Btw are you guys using pretty powerful computers for building ROMS? Or would you say they're average spec?
stellar said:
I'd also like to see how its done, I would love to be able to cook up some things and then release a ROM to the public. I'm sure it's not easy but I'm willing to take a wack at it
Btw are you guys using pretty powerful computers for building ROMS? Or would you say they're average spec?
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mine isn't that great tbh... but it manages to put out something... once your setup is correct and you do your first build... the second build of that ROM is usually a lot faster...
i think average would be around quad core with 8GB RAM... that's my guess based on a few devs i've heard from...
the1dynasty said:
mine isn't that great tbh... but it manages to put out something... once your setup is correct and you do your first build... the second build of that ROM is usually a lot faster...
i think average would be around quad core with 8GB RAM... that's my guess based on a few devs i've heard from...
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I like to learn too. But my pc is just dual core 3.0ghz 4gig ram what do you think?
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mixtapes08 said:
I like to learn too. But my pc is just dual core 3.0ghz 4gig ram what do you think?
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it will take longer than some other PC's... but that will still work... i'd guess a few hrs to build a ROM... mine is around those specs and it takes a few hrs on the initial build lol
There should also be a thread for porting, kinda like "chef central" where users could get support on certain issues with their ports.. Over there in chef central the people seem to only help people that are building from source.. there's not too much support for people doing ports which is unfortunate because not everyone is skilled enough to build from source and having ports is what keeps some devices alive... In this thread there would be threads where you could post your logcat if your not getting boot and some of the more experienced porters (like fergie for example) could take a look and point you in the right direction. Also there could be guides and tutorials as how to get certain aspects of the ROM working like HWA, WiMax, MMS/SMS so on and so forth... I think that it would really bring a lot of new life to some devices that don't get the support that they should..
Anyone else agree on that or is just me?
evol4g said:
there's not too much support for people doing ports which is unfortunate because not everyone is skilled enough to build from source and having ports is what keeps some devices alive...
Anyone else agree on that or is just me?
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I agree with the whole sentiment "more people should build things", but not with "aosp is too hard so we should help people do ports". Unless a port is the only way to get a device working, we definitely should focus on making aosp easier to learn if that's part of a problem the porting people are having.
Anyway, I started my own ROM yesterday and might end up making a wiki to document a bunch of things I'm doing. It's a very stock-ish ROM though, so I won't spend much time writing about adding mods other than a few basic ones.
-IF- I do get around to making the wiki, I will post here about it.
As for the computer, I am using a i7 930 (2.8GHz) with 24GB of RAM.
gparent said:
I agree with the whole sentiment "more people should build things", but not with "aosp is too hard so we should help people do ports". Unless a port is the only way to get a device working, we definitely should focus on making aosp easier to learn if that's part of a problem the porting people are having.
Anyway, I started my own ROM yesterday and might end up making a wiki to document a bunch of things I'm doing. It's a very stock-ish ROM though, so I won't spend much time writing about adding mods other than a few basic ones.
-IF- I do get around to making the wiki, I will post here about it.
As for the computer, I am using a i7 930 (2.8GHz) with 24GB of RAM.
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id like to ask.. is making a rom really difficult.. how much java language knowledge would a person need to have to build from source...?
ferozfero said:
id like to ask.. is making a rom really difficult.. how much java language knowledge would a person need to have to build from source...?
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Well, one of the fun things about being a maintainer rather than a developer is that you really don't -need- much knowledge at all.
Everything helps, though. Yesterday I fixed a gcc compilation issue from knowledge of C++ that I acquired over a number of years. It wasn't a hard bug to fix and I could've asked a friend about it instead, but being a programmer lets me get away with fixing mistakes I see in AOSP when it's necessary (it rarely is).
Later, in my kernel compile, I turned on a compilation flag because I knew that a warning (that failed the build due to -Werror) was completely inaccurate. Good luck doing this if you don't know what's a compilation flag, and good luck doing it safely if you're not sure what the warning means and if it is really safe to override it (it often isn't).
If you want to make a ROM and be efficient about it, I think the two most important skills (in order of importance) are the ability to use git and to solve problems. Without a minimum of source control ease, it will be a pain in the ass to add features to your mods or to keep track of changes efficiently (especially when it comes the time to branch off releases and what not). Problem solving is what you do whenever stuff that should work doesn't work. And it's always hard because if it wasn't hard it would be documented already so you wouldn't have the problem.
If you want to build FEATURES for a mod (that is, not repack what others have written), then yes you will need programming knowledge. Java, C and probably C++. Mostly Java for user facing stuff.
great post gparent... that was a wonderful breakdown of how ROM making works... if it's all true (which it sounds like it), then this might be a bit more than i can chew lol... i'm still willing to see someone in action do these things so i have a better understanding of how to put things together and maybe one day i'll take a stab at building my own ROM!!
gparent said:
24GB of RAM.
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:what: wow, lol
If any other devs come by I'd love to know what setups you guys use for developing too.
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