Database Users

Call for developers for X-Button application for Pocket PC

Many users, including Kevin Rose from Digg.com, have dumped Windows Mobile phones for the sake of other platforms, because they had impression that these phones are slow, much too slow. This impression results from the fact that in Windows Mobile Pocket PC edition applications continue running in the background after user pressed (i.e. tapped with stylus) "X" button of the given program. This is counter-intuitive and makes people think that applications were closed. Big number of applications running in background, of which users are unaware, results in slow operation.
"HTC X-Button" application is included in latest Pocket PC phones manufactured by HTC and recently it even surfaced on the Internet in form of "HTC X-Button.CAB" file, that can be installed:
... and can run in any Pocket PC device (no just HTC-manufactured):
Unfortunately due to legal reasons we cannot publish "HTC X-Button.CAB" application, but we hereby ask developers to develop similar (or the same) program! HTC has proven that not only it is possible but also, that such program works in non-HTC manufactured Pocket PC phones (we tested it). It is not for us to judge how difficult it is to develop such application, but certainly for sure it is possible as HTC shows.
By the way: it is worth noticing that HTC really cares about customer satisfaction because it includes this HTC X-Button application with their latest Pocket PC phones. Such (at first glance) small things really make a difference...
from msmobiles.com
who can get it ?

digifan said:
Many users, including Kevin Rose from Digg.com, have dumped Windows Mobile phones for the sake of other platforms, because they had impression that these phones are slow, much too slow. This impression results from the fact that in Windows Mobile Pocket PC edition applications continue running in the background after user pressed (i.e. tapped with stylus) "X" button of the given program. This is counter-intuitive and makes people think that applications were closed. Big number of applications running in background, of which users are unaware, results in slow operation.
"HTC X-Button" application is included in latest Pocket PC phones manufactured by HTC and recently it even surfaced on the Internet in form of "HTC X-Button.CAB" file, that can be installed:
... and can run in any Pocket PC device (no just HTC-manufactured):
Unfortunately due to legal reasons we cannot publish "HTC X-Button.CAB" application, but we hereby ask developers to develop similar (or the same) program! HTC has proven that not only it is possible but also, that such program works in non-HTC manufactured Pocket PC phones (we tested it). It is not for us to judge how difficult it is to develop such application, but certainly for sure it is possible as HTC shows.
By the way: it is worth noticing that HTC really cares about customer satisfaction because it includes this HTC X-Button application with their latest Pocket PC phones. Such (at first glance) small things really make a difference...
from msmobiles.com
who can get it ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i have it runnig in my wizard .i have extrated from another device rom.nice
but is integrated in the rom.as soon i got time i will make a cab.
i also got htc backup but is not runnig yet.

Which device did you get it from? Herald?

doedoe said:
Which device did you get it from? Herald?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
funny enough it was from a prophet rom.

Which ROM? I would also like to extract this application.

This HTC app is nothing new. There are plenty other legal free and commercial task managers out there.
Here is an excellent example: MagicButton.
It lets you close apps by clicking the X as well as switch between apps like Alt + TAB on PC.
There is also WizBar and SPB TodayPlus etc.
There is no need to extract anything from ROM or to re-invent the wheel (unless you wont to hone your programming skills).
Also I am quite curios as to how MS will respond to this move. According to a blog of one of their developers (don't remember the link now) they care about this "smart-minimize" crap so much, at first they didn't let manufacturers add any app in to ROM that had as much as an EXIT option in the menu. According to them "user should not manage memory".

levenum said:
This HTC app is nothing new. There are plenty other legal free and commercial task managers out there.
Here is an excellent example: MagicButton.
It lets you close apps by clicking the X as well as switch between apps like Alt + TAB on PC.
There is also WizBar and SPB TodayPlus etc.
There is no need to extract anything from ROM or to re-invent the wheel (unless you wont to hone your programming skills).
Also I am quite curios as to how MS will respond to this move. According to a blog of one of their developers (don't remember the link now) they care about this "smart-minimize" crap so much, at first they didn't let manufacturers add any app in to ROM that had as much as an EXIT option in the menu. According to them "user should not manage memory".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
is about choice and prefences.as how they will react? how do they do react to the stuff we been doing to roms for years in this site?
im suprised tey havent shut down this site yet! or maybe they are learning from it!!!!!!

Well there is a big difference between this site and a company like HTC.
After all this is an unofficial gathering of enthusiasts and MS probably doesn't want to come down to hard on potential consumers even when they tweak ROMs here and there.
HTC on the other hand is one of the largest mobile OEMs in the world that works closely with MS (according to an article I recently read) so it comes across as sort of betrayal, don't you think?
It is 110% right move for us users though.

I find closing applications to be slower than smart minimising them. A Microsoft blog I read when WM5 was launched specifically stated that devices work faster when minimising, providing you have suffecient program memory (not lacking on the Prophet). This is because understandebly Windows takes much longer to open an application than maximising it.
Once in while I just end all programs and give the phone a restart (power off and power on rather than soft reset).

Yes that is the theory, but note the providing you have sufficient program memory bit.
Media player alone when active can eat 5-7 MB (which is why I never use it).
Unfortunately program memory is still short since maximum devices have is "64 MB" which if you are very careful can leave you with 30MB free on the Prophet after reset.
Yes, maximizing apps is faster than loading, but MS forgot a critical point:
There is no easy way to switch between minimized apps built in to WM which only makes things worth. Once you minimize something not only does it keep taking memory, but you also need to go all the way through Settings->System->Memory->Running apps to reactivate or get rid of it.
Sorry to drag this thread towards an argument, but there is no question in my mind that this is one of those cases where MS made a huge mistake and instead of fixing it now trying to sell it as a "feature".

When WM OS runs out of memory, it automatically closes the unused (minimized) apps. It just sees no need to close them if there are unused RAM available anyway, so apps are "cached" in case they will be used again.
You can easely switch between "current set" of apps - just reduce the number of "fixed" icons in the start menu. I leave only Help there and entire Windows Start menu becomes a large MRU list, like on smartphones - and I easely use it to switch between active apps.
The problem of "running slow" lies with badly designed apps. Actually, application should never consume significant CPU resources when lieing in background, but some bad developers forget about this fact.
All built-in applications behave nice. I have a process CPU utilization viewer, and can easely see that these apps when minimized dont even use 1% of processor time.

Please Delete This Thread

You all know what happened here. Thanks picsel for the nice pdf file.
~Mike

Update: Fixed browser rendering issues.

You dont know how long i've waited for this, thank you!! it works great on my Qtek 9100
edit: all the features work fine, but after a while of browsing, it gives a low memory warning.. any way to fix that?

MilanoRex said:
You dont know how long i've waited for this, thank you!! it works great on my Qtek 9100
edit: all the features work fine, but after a while of browsing, it gives a low memory warning.. any way to fix that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no problem.....glad you like me too
yea memory issues have been reported @ my site, Im currently looking into it. It also will not start a data connection, you have to manually start that yourself also.
~Mike

wow, i am impressed if the memory problem gets fixed, thanks a lot.
if only there was a smartphone verion i could get. it makes me want to go back to ppc.

It's been working fine for me - I've been using it with several windows open and it hasn't complained yet... I'm using a heavily customised version, but I have to say that it's one of the most beautiful apps I've ever seen (after customising!)...
Thanks Lvballer06!
V

vijay555 said:
It's been working fine for me - I've been using it with several windows open and it hasn't complained yet... I'm using a heavily customised version, but I have to say that it's one of the most beautiful apps I've ever seen (after customising!)...
Thanks Lvballer06!
V
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
how is it heavily customized? what tweaks can you do to this?

No chance this will work on Smartphone I take it?

vijay555 said:
It's been working fine for me - I've been using it with several windows open and it hasn't complained yet... I'm using a heavily customised version, but I have to say that it's one of the most beautiful apps I've ever seen (after customising!)...
Thanks Lvballer06!
V
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yea I have ran across the memory issues myself. I just moved my history folder over to the card and change the reg reference and its been working beautifully. I havent figured out what the issue is there nor can I find out why it closes when u hit ok......I also would like to know what you mean by a heavily customized version?
~Mike

I'm sitting in court right now, stealing wifi and browsing with picsel. It's a beautiful app, but it's a shame it doesn't quite conform to Win32 API. Custom text boxes etc, so for some reason it doesn't accept carriage returns (enter key line breaks). But, minor issue.I think the memory issue may due to attempting to download streaming media, which fills all free memory (at least, youtube crashes it). May need to limit assigned memory in registry.Heavily customised: I'm using a plugin I am writing to make it prettier and easier to use... just for my use for now, but it could be very helpful. Multiple windows are supported, but not very useful because you can't pass links between windows. But you can browse in multiple windows, and do lots of other stuff.V

vijay555 said:
I'm sitting in court right now, stealing wifi and browsing with picsel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You sound like me
I think the memory issue may due to attempting to download streaming media, which fills all free memory (at least, youtube crashes it).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
now that you mention it.....I think ur right. The one time I got the low memory error was when accessing a myspace page.
May need to limit assigned memory in registry.Heavily customised: I'm using a plugin I am writing to make it prettier and easier to use... just for my use for now, but it could be very helpful. Multiple windows are supported, but not very useful because you can't pass links between windows. But you can browse in multiple windows, and do lots of other stuff.V
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
multiple windows would be great...I bet ur loving it lucky u!
~Mike

vijay555 said:
I'm sitting in court right now, stealing wifi and browsing with picsel. It's a beautiful app, but it's a shame it doesn't quite conform to Win32 API. Custom text boxes etc, so for some reason it doesn't accept carriage returns (enter key line breaks). But, minor issue.I think the memory issue may due to attempting to download streaming media, which fills all free memory (at least, youtube crashes it). May need to limit assigned memory in registry.Heavily customised: I'm using a plugin I am writing to make it prettier and easier to use... just for my use for now, but it could be very helpful. Multiple windows are supported, but not very useful because you can't pass links between windows. But you can browse in multiple windows, and do lots of other stuff.V
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Any plans on releasing this little jewel? sounds pretty cool

Not just yet. Picsel is one of the most beautiful apps I've seen, but at the same time a little rudimentary in access Working on improving it... will keep you informed.
V

I have been playing with Picsel and it's a great app.
The other day it suddenly lost the "momentum" when scrolling with the stylus. So if I am dragging the stylus and lift it immediately stops making it harder to get through long pages. Anyone else experienced this? Have a solution?

Mine lost momentum too after first usage. Not missing it though. Didn't investigate how to reenable...
V

How do you rate for G1 device?....Reviews Etc.

We're wonder what is people thinking about their G1 device... Please vote and write down your feeling on this new phone.

G1
What does work on this phone works very well. I feel though that this phone is more for developers and hobbyist. It's not quiet ready for guys like me that have very few skills. I hope the software situation gets worked out soon or this phone will end up with no real support just like the Iphone.

i agree, some great potential with this phone, enough to make it a class leader. we just need to see some of the most reported problems ironed out first. great os and hardware on the whole.

what are "mosy reported floors"

I LOVE this phone. Of course it has its problems(lack of camera options, lack of really interesting apps(though there were a hell of a lot of interesting ones added today...), cut and paste is a bit of a pain sometimes but they are all in the software and definitely will be fixed once the device is a little more mature. Considering this is a version 1.0 device and just came out a little over a month ago it's freaking amazing. Heck I've even had iphone users gawk at some of the things it can do like street view compass mode.

Love it!!
I've had (over the past 2 years) the mda, moto q, mogul, instinct, diamond and now the G1.
Windows mobile (mda/q/mogul/diamond), although very convenient, can and will give you a headache and a large pain in the @$$. Screens are usually too cluttered. Such a small screen size with so much stuff. Lag lag lagggggggg. Pocket Internet Explorer is only there for show and orb. Other than that I would recommend opera, netbrowser or skyfire. Functionality is the best feature winmo has. I had full access to my home computer (as long as it was connected to the internet). They are essentially what they are called, PPC's (Pocket PC's).
Instinct... should be set on fire along with all the people who created that POS. Make sure it is a slow roasting fire too. Very very poor smartphone. Good at making/receiving calls though.
The G1 can and will do everying the winmo phones do (minus the head ache... hopefully). All we need to be is patient or pitch in by learning programming.

i rated it very poor, i am very disappointed with the phone and google should be ashamed of themselves. the g1 can't do 1/10th of the things my wing did and my wing was a dog. android is worse than win ce when i first tried it on '03. thanks g1 for ruining my year. xda-devs, please get winmo on this asap.

Till now only 47 peoples vote... gogogo!
Till now only 47 peoples... gogogo! Tell people how do you think on G1~
We hope TMO can see this thread and improve it on next model if possible.

Good and Bad
I rated the phone as Neutral:
Things I like:
- GPS, Wireless are great
- Some cool apps
- Smooth Feel to the screen and it isn't jerky
- Contact List (very flexible for my needs)
- real tactile keyboard
- Maps
- ShopSavvy
Things I don't like:
- Small screen
- No auto-rotate (I know it works with chrooted systems)
- keyboard missing CTRL, PgUp/Down, Arrows (for shell commands)
- Internal Storage space is limited
- Lack of ability to store to SD Card
- The cumbersome headset included (why on earth keep the mic
- Not a true Open Source (I want root access)
Things that would make this phone rock:
- optional on-screen keyboard for simple input (ease up on the wear and tear of constantly having to flip to keyboard)
- piston operated hinges (i.e. slow the shock of closing/opening the keyboard)..opens fast but slows down right before it slams open/shut
- option for normal earpiece input (vice USB headset)
So I'm really mixed. I think a huge win (for me) is the ability to store on SD card (I run out of space all the time now) and having root access. That would put my satisfaction in the upper 90's. I'm sure I'm missing other pros/cons but that's a start for me.

I bought it recently, and am satisfied with it. The screen is very bright and responsive, the browser is very good and I can install my own apps on it without hassle <3
My first one had a squeaky sound to it so I got it exchanged. I have the white one, so it can be hard to see the buttons and some of the apps feel incomplete. Thankfully, I can download the source and mod them to my liking
RouterGuru said:
I rated the phone as Neutral:
Things that would make this phone rock:
- optional on-screen keyboard for simple input (ease up on the wear and tear of constantly having to flip to keyboard)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Aye, that annoys me as well, but the input API is is listed on the roadmap for Q1 09, so not too long now (hopefully).

Auto Rotate...?
Just curious if anyone concern about to disable " Auto Rotate " function once keyboard slide out.
Personally, I don't like it at all since sometime, I wish to browse the webpage on horziontal mode but only way is slide out the keyboard!
It is a $%^&*, why they just don't leave a function for user ON/OFF auto rotate ???

I give the phone itself a "very disappointed", the software "very good".
While much if the phone's problems are likely software, the squeaking and overall build quality are sub-par IMO. The battery life is horrid and, while software can fix some of it, the battery is rated very low, which begs me to ask why they spec'd such a tiny battery for a phone with these features.
The point is, I guess, that the phone itself has problems that cant be fixed with a update. The software, while lacking many simple things, at least can and will be eventually fixed.

For me the G1 is a very good start. The default packages and layouts need to be redone. For example. The contacts options don't offer enough input. Like... Birthdays, Anniversaries As well as maybe having IM support for the various default messengers on the g1 ie gtalk, aim etc.
Another Huge let down is the default SMS/MMS package where it does not allow you to forward and the standard options we have become accustomed to using devices such as WM6....
The picture viewer is the worst i have ever seen in my life. Currently I have over 5500 pictures on my SD card and the default viewer does not allow me to view by Directory or simply go into the folder and view that folder, instead it tries to Cache all 5500 pictures and well 35 mins + trying to cache all of them i close it. Also with so many pictures and thousands of names of files there is no option to View a picture and MMS it directly to a contact.
Syncing the phone. There is currently no support for outlook and well even when you export from outlook in CSV format and import into Google it always comes up half garbled with no pictures already saved for contacts. Also not correctly saving number types. IE from outlook if u save it as a mobile number so u can sms on a WM6 device once imported into google it lists it as a regular phone# and cant quickly create a sms to that user by (auto completing the name as you type.)
The only 2 things i have notice that Remember last view is the homescreen and the Applications menu. For instance if you go into your Apps management and uninstall an app. it sends you to the top of the list. The same goes with your Contacts, Directory views, Music library, Etc.
The default options for all applications are normally the same as in notification options. So if i am getting a Text, MMS, Email or what have you it is the same notification for every notification event.
There is no "task manager" to kill processes. IE an X button to close programs or access to kill process' and while Android is supposed to close programs on its own tell that to mine when i run the Browser or Myspace, Facebook, PacMac and close out of the screens and as time passes i wonder why my phone is running slow and open up the Task Switcher and see all of these running still.
There has been no porting of Office XXXX or Open Office to support excel, docx, and the like formats to android at this time yet.
While many people think that the G1 is a big let down and got it and got rid of it. Many of us see the potentional of its power and customization. So if enough of the users voice there dislikes about standard features you EXPECT and want on your device the better the chances that they will take notice.

ultraman69 said:
i rated it very poor, i am very disappointed with the phone and google should be ashamed of themselves. the g1 can't do 1/10th of the things my wing did and my wing was a dog. android is worse than win ce when i first tried it on '03. thanks g1 for ruining my year. xda-devs, please get winmo on this asap.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
your wing was a 4th generation Windows mobile device.... did you have windows CE or win2003 before you had your wing? it took windows ages to provide the flexability they offered in the wing yes we all are used to those basic things that the wing and such wm2005 and 2006 devices have on it but where your wrong is the G1 and Android has the ability with the current phone you OWN this second to surpass that little phone you call Wing. Through updates and the likes. If your so disgusted in your G1 ill get you 100 bucks for it... PM me.

G1 for 2 weeks ... returned ;?
This is not a thread to bash the G1 in anyway, this is not to compare it to other touchscreen phones. This is merely a usability distinction where i couldn't justify $400 for the device which was more or less to play with android.
the G1 is a good phone, speakers (earpiece/speaker on back) have some amplification issues when the volume is too high, coming from and SE phone however they were more than acceptable in rage and clarity if the volume was controlled.
the internet was outstanding, what i would have liked to have seen was copy and paste in browser, which may have held me to the phone a bit longer than the return period. not being able to at the very least edit docs.google.com documents was irritating at best, especially with no proper document viewer on the phone, severely constricting the email that could be sent from the phone. i am by no means a business user ... but wow, i cant even edit a *.doc thats not already on my phone to another person with some changes.
this has rambled on long enough, i just wanted to share a few thoughts that i had of the device.

diabolical28 said:
your wing was a 4th generation Windows mobile device.... did you have windows CE or win2003 before you had your wing? it took windows ages to provide the flexability they offered in the wing yes we all are used to those basic things that the wing and such wm2005 and 2006 devices have on it but where your wrong is the G1 and Android has the ability with the current phone you OWN this second to surpass that little phone you call Wing. Through updates and the likes. If your so disgusted in your G1 ill get you 100 bucks for it... PM me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While correct that the Wing has the upper hand in generations of O/S, I am reminded of a great quote:
"A wise man learns from his mistakes, a wiser man learn's from the mistakes of the one around him"
sure, you need to change the words around a bit, but the lesson is to learn from others. They didnt. Android has a lot of possibilities. Unfortunately they did not "learn" from WM6, they left a lot out. They left it in the hands of developers, who seem to be too busy writing "flashlight" and "punch meter" to write useful everyday apps that we are lacking. So far the only app that I have seen that addresses a missing feature is the missed call app 9which is AWESOME as I miss a lot of calls because they dont ring though ).

I am still keeping the phone simply because of the browsing feature, I love sitting on the couch and browsing websites smoothly. Unbelievably the browser also lacks simple features like a simple ADDRESS bar (well, its hidden in the menus so you would SEARCH and add to Google's search results instead of direct typing a URL) and switching between tabs (now called Windows) is too many unnecessary "touches" in my opinion.
I dont mean to bash the phone (and dont even think about replying with "get another phone if you dont like it") but I like to bring these frustrations up so that Google programmers know one more time why this phone is going to lose its shine if they are too late bringing themselves up to date. (PS3 Sales anyone?, Late on price cuts?). See if you are too late these days, it doesn't matter if you are better, look at MSN's Video website, its awesome and MUCH better than Youtube but no one knows about it because they were late (and they don't have their own "brand name" and its simply MSN Video)
Not being able to edit *.doc files from inside the phone's memory or google docs is one thing, and I think is acceptable on a not-so-fresh-release-anymore phone.
What is NOT acceptable whatsoever on this phone is:
Not being able to see IMAGES in Gmail??! For goodness sake Google and T-Mobile claim everything you love about google in your hand, BS. Windows Mobile did this back in 1999 (used to be called Windows CE and had its own outlook) Yes that was 1999 TEN YEARS AGO on my Cassiopea
Other items worth mentioning to those who don't have the phone:
No proper support of Google's own search on its own website! (constantly getting the blank search result page)
No Copy/Paste
No Contact Sync with Outlook (what the hell? is this Nokia 1997 all over again?)
No spreadsheet/word doc editor/viewer (ok, ok, we are waiting for all kind of programmers making incompatible with each other software
No PDF viewer (Correction, there is a great PDF viewer in the market for purchase, I meant part of the browser, I think google probably wants to come up with its own version for its Google Book website and doesnt want to use Adobe PDF)
No Flash (there goes 50% of the websites I browse)
Severly closed source and limited programming that has caused simple BS "apps" with a few exceptions. Developers are crying about how limited they are in writing programs as this phone is sooo CLOSED in all ways, there is no way to even write a Gadget for it like the clock that comes on the screen. No root access either.
Unscrollable, limited desktop space
No windows for categorizing icons. Well, Google does not believe in categorizing and file systems. I am sure all their own servers are full of FOLDERs just like Microsoft servers but they claim everything should be "LABELED" not "folder"'d.
No app installation on the SD card?? Whats this one?? I dropped my WING because it was still using the ten year old Windows CE memory system (almost) and had very limited space and was always running out.
This phone made me appreciate all the little details that engineers at Microsoft have thought of in the past 20 years and included in Windows. I think of how our life would've beeen different and productivity in the world would've been so behind if Linux, IBMOS/2 and other crap had taken over the computer world. Thanks again Microsoft for all the thousands and thousands of free "apps" you included in Windows. Stuff as simple as RIGHT clicking on the screen or COPY/Paste or just a window to categorize icons, simple stupid things I have been taking for granted for years. I am sure Google programmers would love to use Windows in all their own computers while at work. Now I know why Windows dominates the software industry even though they have failed in cluttered annoying text advertising, search, maps and a few other areas.

brooklynite said:
I am still keeping the phone simply because of the browsing feature, I love sitting on the couch and browsing websites smoothly. Unbelievably the browser also lacks simple features like a simple ADDRESS bar (well, its hidden in the menus so you would SEARCH and add to Google's search results instead of direct typing a URL) and switching between tabs (now called Windows) is too many unnecessary "touches" in my opinion.
I dont mean to bash the phone (and dont even think about replying with "get another phone if you dont like it") but I like to bring these frustrations up so that Google programmers know one more time why this phone is going to lose its shine if they are too late bringing themselves up to date. (PS3 Sales anyone?, Late on price cuts?). See if you are too late these days, it doesn't matter if you are better, look at MSN's Video website, its awesome and MUCH better than Youtube but no one knows about it because they were late (and they don't have their own "brand name" and its simply MSN Video)
Not being able to edit *.doc files from inside the phone's memory or google docs is one thing, and I think is acceptable on a not-so-fresh-release-anymore phone.
What is NOT acceptable whatsoever on this phone is:
Not being able to see IMAGES in Gmail??! For goodness sake Google and T-Mobile claim everything you love about google in your hand, BS. Windows Mobile did this back in 1999 (used to be called Windows CE and had its own outlook) Yes that was 1999 TEN YEARS AGO on my Cassiopea
Other items worth mentioning to those who don't have the phone:
No proper support of Google's own search on its own website! (constantly getting the blank search result page)
No Copy/Paste
No Contact Sync with Outlook (what the hell? is this Nokia 1997 all over again?)
No spreadsheet/word doc editor/viewer (ok, ok, we are waiting for all kind of programmers making incompatible with each other software
No PDF viewer
No Flash (there goes 50% of the websites I browse)
Severly closed source and limited programming that has caused simple BS "apps" with a few exceptions. Developers are crying about how limited they are in writing programs as this phone is sooo CLOSED in all ways, there is no way to even write a Gadget for it like the clock that comes on the screen. No root access either.
Unscrollable, limited desktop space
No windows for categorizing icons. Well, Google does not believe in categorizing and file systems. I am sure all their own servers are full of FOLDERs just like Microsoft servers but they claim everything should be "LABELED" not "folder"'d.
No app installation on the SD card?? Whats this one?? I dropped my WING because it was still using the ten year old Windows CE memory system (almost) and had very limited space and was always running out.
This phone made me appreciate all the little details that engineers at Microsoft have thought of in the past 20 years and included in Windows. I think of how our life would've beeen different and productivity in the world would've been so behind if Linux, IBMOS/2 and other crap had taken over the computer world. Thanks again Microsoft for all the thousands and thousands of free "apps" you included in Windows. Stuff as simple as RIGHT clicking on the screen or COPY/Paste or just a window to categorize icons, simple stupid things I have been taking for granted for years. I am sure Google programmers would love to use Windows in all their own computers while at work. Now I know why Windows dominates the software industry even though they have failed in cluttered annoying text advertising, search, maps and a few other areas.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Flash was announced to be coming sometime in the near future by adobe, when is the question. There is a pdf viewer on handango however i purchased it and tried to open g1's full manual and it wont open it. GO FIGURE lol.

And contacts sync with Outlook is already out - see MailShadowG at www.cemaphore.com
- in fact, it's an entire push Exchange mail/contacts/calendar sync.

diabolical28 said:
your wing was a 4th generation Windows mobile device.... did you have windows CE or win2003 before you had your wing? it took windows ages to provide the flexability they offered in the wing yes we all are used to those basic things that the wing and such wm2005 and 2006 devices have on it but where your wrong is the G1 and Android has the ability with the current phone you OWN this second to surpass that little phone you call Wing. Through updates and the likes. If your so disgusted in your G1 ill get you 100 bucks for it... PM me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sorry, i didn't know that this poll was to rate the potential of the g1. potentially, any phone can be great, 5 stars...
i think by now, 2008, the requirements for a pda phone are pretty much well defined. ms may have taken 3 to 4 gens to get it right, it doesn't mean that google needs 4 gens. they don't have to invent or reinvent anything, it all already there.
unfortunately, google seems too wrapped up in UI than functionality. actually, i don't know where their focus is.

What Makes Android Better Than Windows Mobile?

I see a lot of threads about Android.
I've never tried converting or even seen it in action but have a question.
How is Android better than Windows Mobile Professional?
Also how is it worse?
Or is it just different?

All I can say is 'try it to believe it.'
I can talk about it on and on, but you are not going to realize what you can get until you try it.

sshark said:
All I can say is 'try it to believe it.'
I can talk about it on and on, but you are not going to realize what you can get until you try it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
second that. easy enough to dump on your sdcard without even touching your current winmo setup, so try it out and see.

jimt007 said:
I see a lot of threads about Android.
I've never tried converting or even seen it in action but have a question.
How is Android better than Windows Mobile Professional?
Also how is it worse?
Or is it just different?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its just better. Really.

Main thing for me, besides that its totally better, is that its finger based. No more silly stylus....

+1.
I just recently went all the way back to the stock sprint 6.1 rom just to see if I could ever live like that again. After spending an hour or so gathering cabs and tweaking everything just to get it to a comfortable state, I realized that all of the things I was trying to do are pretty much already done in even the most basic android builds.
It does come down to preference I suppose, but for me, just signing into my account upon booting android beats digging around for a WMMarketplace cab on a crippled IE browser, cumbersome setups for things like Windows Live, setting up and scheduling active sync, installing replacements for almost every default part of WM.
I really did love windows mobile for a long time. It's certainly one of -if not- the most customizable platforms. If you don't necessarily like how something works in WM, chances are you can do something about it. But that can take time. I was never really that interested in scripting out one of those huge uc files way back when.
The way everything works so well together in android without getting in your way is fantastic, but stop reading this and just trying it!

If you want to get your feet wet:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/58383/android.exe
A self-extracting zip file I made to get a friend running Android. It's a all-in-one Haret of zenulator's 1.6 Donut. Just extract the Android folder it contains to your Secure Digital card, then run Haret.exe in Windows Mobile File Explorer. Then hit Run.
For porting contacts from WinMobile to Android, check this:
http://www.google.com/support/mobile/bin/answer.py?answer=138636&topic=14299

You know what? I'm going to quote myself, from another thread:
Pandemic187 said:
Personally, I like Android better than Windows Mobile because:
1. It's significantly faster for me
2. There's more freedom in terms of tweaking it
3. I think it has a MUCH better notification system than WinMo
4. I like the integration with GMail (better than WinMo's Exchange support) and other Google services
5. It has an app market!
These are pretty self explanatory, but I just love the notification system of Android. I was pleasantly surprised to see a weather alert appear in my notification bar after I downloaded the Weather.com app the other day. Everything appears there - including your appointments on your Google Calendar, texts, e-mails - everything. I think it's just great how it's all unified.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

jnadke said:
If you want to get your feet wet:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/58383/android.exe
A self-extracting zip file I made to get a friend running Android. It's a all-in-one Haret of zenulator's 1.6 Donut. Just extract the Android folder it contains to your Secure Digital card, then run Haret.exe in Windows Mobile File Explorer. Then hit Run.
For porting contacts from WinMobile to Android, check this:
http://www.google.com/support/mobile/bin/answer.py?answer=138636&topic=14299
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks.
I installed it without any problems. Nice looking. Very clean interface.
But.... EVERY program that I tried, opened but had no way to back out. I had to soft reset each time. I tried 3 or 4 different things, and nothing let me go back to the main menu. Phone hard keys didn't do what they are supposed to do. After all it is a phone, the hard keys make it easy to call and hang up.
I guess I'm not patient enough to continue to experiment so I just deleted the file and am back to using Windows Mobile Pro 6.1.

jimt007 said:
Thanks.
I installed it without any problems. Nice looking. Very clean interface.
But.... EVERY program that I tried, opened but had no way to back out. I had to soft reset each time. I tried 3 or 4 different things, and nothing let me go back to the main menu. Phone hard keys didn't do what they are supposed to do. After all it is a phone, the hard keys make it easy to call and hang up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Power Button = Menu Button
Camera Button = Back Button
Hang-Up Button (long press) = Silence, Airplane, Shutdown
Those should work on every Vogue.

cybik said:
Power Button = Menu Button
Camera Button = Back Button
Hang-Up Button (long press) = Silence, Airplane, Shutdown
Those should work on every Vogue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd like to give a friend the package above, but he is on a Touch Pro. Would this be good for him to try? or is there something else better?

TheKartus said:
Main thing for me, besides that its totally better, is that its finger based. No more silly stylus....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol..huh? I have used Windows Mobile forever and cannot remember the last time I used the stylus...in fact, the only time I use it, is to reset the phone through the little hole.

jimt007 said:
Thanks.
I installed it without any problems. Nice looking. Very clean interface.
But.... EVERY program that I tried, opened but had no way to back out. I had to soft reset each time. I tried 3 or 4 different things, and nothing let me go back to the main menu. Phone hard keys didn't do what they are supposed to do. After all it is a phone, the hard keys make it easy to call and hang up.
I guess I'm not patient enough to continue to experiment so I just deleted the file and am back to using Windows Mobile Pro 6.1.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well..........after reading some of the replies I reinstalled Android.
Not to belabor the point but I still don't like it as much as Windows Mobile Pro 6.1.
I would be losing to many things I'm very pleased with for a change to a different operating system.
It's back off again, I'm staying with Windows Mobile Pro 6.1.
If I ever want Android I'll buy an Android phone.

I agree with you about Android, it's not something I would use, but that's just me.
I wouldn't go back to 6.1 though, I'll stay with 6.5.x, it's a lot more finger friendly. The UI graphics on Android is decade behind everybody else. I would need a microscope to see what's on there. That's why HTC developed its own UI. Knowing Google, they probably can make up that decade in a week, but for now its Winmo.
PS you might want to try one of the port/build with SenseUI.

stopthebus said:
I agree with you about Android, it's not something I would use, but that's just me.
I wouldn't go back to 6.1 though, I'll stay with 6.5.x, it's a lot more finger friendly. The UI graphics on Android is decade behind everybody else. I would need a microscope to see what's on there. That's why HTC developed its own UI. Knowing Google, they probably can make up that decade in a week, but for now its Winmo.
PS you might want to try one of the port/build with SenseUI.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To each their own I suppose - but it really sounds like your config is off or you're using some odd build if you "need a microscope to see what's on there".

plemen said:
To each their own I suppose - but it really sounds like your config is off or you're using some odd build if you "need a microscope to see what's on there".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would love to be able to increase the font size on Android. I've play around with both 120 and 160 and different resolutions, but unable to increase the font size to something usable. Any help would be appreciated. I've been scouring the net reading up on Android and trying different builds (last one was eclair 2.0.1) because I was offered the Droid for Xmas. After all the readings and research, I turn down the offer in favor of the trusty old Vogue (being made by Motorola is another reason; every Motorola phones I got, I had to open them up and super glued everything down).
I do appreciate some pointers on increasing the font/widgets size on these test builds.

crobs808 said:
lol..huh? I have used Windows Mobile forever and cannot remember the last time I used the stylus...in fact, the only time I use it, is to reset the phone through the little hole.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I often got annoyed with certain apps I put in, certain games, or menus and just brought out the stylus.

Well, one thing you always have to keep in mind running Android on the Vogue, is that it is not native to the Vogue. So, there is always going to be little imperfections. I was so impressed by Android on the Vogue, that I bought a G1. So now I run WM6.5 on the Vogue, and Cyanogen's ROMs on my G1. I really will never go back to WM. The only reason I use it now is because I have a contract with Verizon that somebody else pay for. If you really want to be blown away by Android, go to a store and play with a native Android phone. I find content is way more accessible for Android. For an OS that has been out for a very small fraction of the time that WM has been out, it's incredible. Lol, I'm rambling now, point is, try a native Android phone if the Vogue port doesn't suit you. Don't give up on it too easily.

Hello
I am using NFSFAN latest rom on my vogue.Have not tried any android as yet.Honestly,I have not followed it atall.So I am a complete noob to android platform.
So can anybody point me where I can get all the guidanceThanks.

Wow! I don’t mean to sound patronizing but I am genuinely impressed by the quality of responses to this question. Someone actually dared to ask a question about comparing WM vs. Android and there wasn’t any of the typical flame war style responses. Thanks guys! Just one more reason why I like the XDA forums.
I have been looking for a clear and concise answer (or partial answer) on this exact topic myself. I was hoping to get a quantifiable “here’s why I like Android” or “here’s why I like WM” response and I finally found something in this discussion.
I find that a certain anti-Microsoft sentiment often clouds these discussions to the point where they are not useful.
I have been using WM for *years* and develop applications for it. I am also supporting over 50+ Windows Mobile-based devices in the enterprise (warehouse & sales force automation apps). So when people come out and say stuff like “WM is slow, bloated and buggy” I find it an unhelpful response. I just have to chalk their comments up to anti-Microsoft sentiment that is so popular these days.
From this discussion I have a partial conclusion. It seems that the main difference between WM and Android are from a “user experience” perspective. Both of them seem to be reliable robust platforms from an OS perspective. The problem is that the WM interface is dated and heavily stylus oriented. Microsoft’s response to this is to make things “bigger” but not to radically rethink the user interface.
Windows Mobile in its present form bears an uncanny resemblance to Pocket PC 2002. This was designed to compete (and win) against the then popular PalmOS.
Android represents a complete rethink from a user interface perspective. On top of that companies like HTC add their own stuff like SenseUI (on Android) and TouchFLO (on WM) that change the user experience some more. So sometimes that makes the discussion more about the phone manufacturer (HTC vs. Samsung for example) then about the platform itself.
Microsoft is in a tough spot with WM right now. There is a huge install base of mobile business apps running on industrialized PDA’s (stuff like the MC75, MC55, Intermec CN50, etc, etc). The Purolator guys use WM for proof-of-delivery. These types of apps are often custom developed, expensive and have long life cycles. They are not sexy but they get work done.
Radically rethinking the WM user interface would likely break a lot of these types of applications. Everyone knows when switching to Android that their existing WM apps will not run. But everyone expects their existing WM apps from 1998 to run unmodified on the latest version of WM (and surprisingly they often do).
So how does Microsoft keep WM dominant in the business sector while at the same time making it “exciting and sexy” in the rapidly changing consumer marketplace?
Tough spot indeed. I wonder what they will do. I do love the competition from Android (and iPhone) and expect to see cool stuff from WM in the future. I just hope it doesn’t break too many of my 10+ year old apps ;-)
Regards,
The Fish

Win 8 Metro Poll and discussion - No FUD aloud!!

Righty folks, heres a quick poll, I think the results will be very interesting, anyone is welcome to vote
The discussion however is for objective views and opinions from people who have actually used and tested the OS for a reasonable amount of time, that's to say more than a hand full of days!
Views like "ive read" Ive heard" "Its crap" mean precisely bugger all and are not welcome. Anyone who binned it after 5 min or couldn't be bothered to understand it because it didn't have a start button need not bother to grace us with your presence.
This is not a place to spread FUD, start flame fests or simply come on to moan about it.
Im not saying we all must agree, im saying we need to be able to support that opinion with evidence, we are after all, Microsoft testers, it would be good to support one another and share what we have learnt and help others out.
Let the fun and games commence!

After using consumer preview since its release i have grown to love the interface. I have to use windows 7 on my college's computers and the start button feels so counter intuitive. All of the old functionality still remains if anyone wants to use it. Also, the os as a whole is much faster than 7. My two biggest complaints about windows 8 are the random crashes when exiting sleep and the general lack of drivers, both of which are expected during a beta stage.
Sent from my handheld Linux computer using electromagnetic radiation.

I installed windows 8 the day the consumer preview came out and overall I have to say it’s been a positive experience. There was a slight learning curve, nothing that a few hours and reading the proper documentation could not fix. Although I feel this was slightly due to the fact the charm bar does not seem to respond very well with two monitors, but in all fairness Ctrl + c works fine and I am more comfortable with shortcuts.
A few things I did the metro icons were not very crisp on a large display which is something that I am very nitpicky about. I also wish there was more of a windows phone influence with regards to the metro apps, currently a lot of the apps are just a long horizontal scrolling applications. I would of much preferred titled sections on a continuous loop that when clicked the title you are moved to that section like in wp7.
Currently scrolling around looks ugly and a little clumsy for instance the weather app to me looks horrible. All in all not really that much has changed its is still really just windows with an addition screen that doubles as a start screen and a way to communicate more information then there previously has been in windows.

indeed, ive got a few driver issues as well, but as you say, that is to be expected in its current form.
multi monitor setups are a big issue, trying to get the "zones" can be a bit of a pain, I dare say you'd get used to it but I think this could be easily overcome and is a design fault that needs fixed
Ideally id like to see metro being transferable to different monitors, whilst maintaining the primary monitor else where.
Something else I agree on is the Windows Phone influence, there needs to be more of it, I realise this is beta still but the people tile is terrible when compared to WP, id presume you would allow groups as well...
Something else id like to see imported to this idea is the ability to sync text messages in to the people tile as well, making the Metro UI an extension of WP, their half way there already and would also provide a convent backup solution for WP. The size of txt messages could easily be transferred when your live account syncs every now and then, meaning you would be able to get home, put your WP down, fire up Windows and instantly be able to work with metro containing all the info available on your phone.
In my opinion, if there going to join the platforms then they may as well do it propperly.

I have used it for about 3 weeks now but i am still unsure whether it should be released along with the desktop OS when the RC comes out. tbh I see what they're trying to do, but it's a very bad move for desktop / laptops (unless touchscreen). Compatibility to older windows programs is limited and it's more of an annoyance than anything helpful. They tried to emulate the launch control in Mac with extra features, but i fail to see how this is revolutionary to desktop pcs and such. It just gave you two desktops, one of which you'll rarely use. Of course there are many other things I can complain about, but don't want to rant up this thread lol. Sure it looks pretty and all, but it's more limited than win7 and I don't see how that's a plus.

HaVoKeR said:
Compatibility to older windows programs is limited and it's more of an annoyance than anything helpful.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hows that? im unsure where your coming from on this one as it runs anything ive tried that worked on Win 7 so how is it Limited and annoying?
HaVoKeR said:
It just gave you two desktops, one of which you'll rarely use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I presume you mean the Metro UI is rarely used? From what ive seen the key to getting the most out of Metro is to set it up, at the moment there are limited "apps" which make use of the full live tile function but it will get there, the email, messaging , photos, calendar, Music all work fine (all be it we cant use music properly outside of the US just now)
HaVoKeR said:
Sure it looks pretty and all, but it's more limited than win7 and I don't see how that's a plus.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't see how its more limited? can you explain that? Metro is just a layer on top of the desktop, personally I cant see any less functionality.

HaVoKeR said:
I have used it for about 3 weeks now but i am still unsure whether it should be released along with the desktop OS when the RC comes out. tbh I see what they're trying to do, but it's a very bad move for desktop / laptops (unless touchscreen). Compatibility to older windows programs is limited and it's more of an annoyance than anything helpful. They tried to emulate the launch control in Mac with extra features, but i fail to see how this is revolutionary to desktop pcs and such. It just gave you two desktops, one of which you'll rarely use. Of course there are many other things I can complain about, but don't want to rant up this thread lol. Sure it looks pretty and all, but it's more limited than win7 and I don't see how that's a plus.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Howso? I use all the older programs that I've always used, It's not limited and it's not an annoyance. How are they trying to emulate Launch Control when the Metro UI dates back to before Launch Control (It's been there since WP7's release which was before Lion's)? I actually use both desktops fairly equally.
Edit: I actually have a correction to that Metro UI has been there since Microsoft released the Zune Player software for PC and Zune devices. So it's effectively been around before Launch Control and Lion.
Answering the poll:
Over 2 weeks and Overall Like. I love being able to see everything at a glance when I start Windows, I love the Metro Applications (Especially the Live Communication Applications). It truly is a step forward from the old, dated menu based interface and a step forward that I welcome. I used to switch OSes every few months because I'd get bored with how Windows looked and how limited I was with customizing it, but 8's changes give me the integration and customization that I like I love the Google Calendar sync, I finally have one calendar across all my devices ^_^, Can't wait to see what changes in RC. I just hope they don't bring back the Start Orb/Menu.
Edit: I would love to at least be able to post status changes to social networks in people though and I'm especially hoping for a Windows 8 Google Voice client so I don't have to open my web browser or look at my phone (especially if my phone's dead) to continue sending/receiving messages. I was going to make one in Developer's Preview but I couldn't find a suitable third-party API that supported receiving messages and I couldn't figure out XAML or the Metro Designer...
Also Dazza: I agree, I don't see any less functionality. Rather I see an increase of productivity and functionality.

I couldn't agree more,
The People Hub on here is pretty bad, course its a preview app so I would hope there will be some significant changes. In fact to make it easy for them, I want WP7 People hub on Windows 8, simple as that.
The challenge would be horizontal scrolling as apposed to vertical given that most of us have wide screen, at the moment its a huge waste of space and not very useful.
The messenger app could do with being linked in to FB in much the same way as WP7, in fact once again, just bring it all over, The people, messaging, email etc are probable some of the most efficient designs ive ever seen on a phone, given that Metro is supposed to be a quick efficient way of doing stuff they would do well to keep that the same and let outlook etc take care of the nitty gritty side to things.
edit:
Looks like that results stacking up, by an large the biggest portion of folk like it, and out of those that don't most of those in % terms haven't used it for very long at all. Just goes to show!

I like it alot. I'd be using it as my main OS already if drivers were available for a couple of my devices.
I've always loved the WP7 UI so Metro is great for me. A little bit more work needs doing on the integration of the desktop with Metro though. Just to make things a little more fluid.
I've got Windows 8 installed on both my main PC and my HP TM2 laptop so have given the touch gestures a go too which work really well.

adamwebb28 said:
I like it alot. I'd be using it as my main OS already if drivers were available for a couple of my devices.
I've always loved the WP7 UI so Metro is great for me. A little bit more work needs doing on the integration of the desktop with Metro though. Just to make things a little more fluid.
I've got Windows 8 installed on both my main PC and my HP TM2 laptop so have given the touch gestures a go too which work really well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i was reading on the MS blog that whilst it will run on win7 touch hardware, win 8 hardware has been tweeked even further, have you noticed any issues, especially around fingers moving on to the screen from the sides to quickly? and tap lag (typing to quick an missing letters!)?

dazza9075 said:
i was reading on the MS blog that whilst it will run on win7 touch hardware, win 8 hardware has been tweeked even further, have you noticed any issues, especially around fingers moving on to the screen from the sides to quickly? and tap lag (typing to quick an missing letters!)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll be honest, I haven't done much with using the on screen keyboard. But certainly not had any problems with swiping onto the screen.
The couple of times I have used the on screen keyboard it hasn't felt much better than the old touch keyboard in windows 7.

For tablet: like it very very much.
For desktop: dislike.
I will never use metro on my desktop PC. Why ? Because it cant display more than 1 app ( nope, 1/4 sized app pinned to left or right side does not count for me ). I will never use metro apps on desktop pc, and i think most people wont...so what is it there for ?
I have nothing against metro, and i like the tiles design. But using it on a desktop PC is just not practical for me.

Akiainavas said:
For tablet: like it very very much.
For desktop: dislike.
I will never use metro on my desktop PC. Why ? Because it cant display more than 1 app ( nope, 1/4 sized app pinned to left or right side does not count for me ). I will never use metro apps on desktop pc, and i think most people wont...so what is it there for ?
I have nothing against metro, and i like the tiles design. But using it on a desktop PC is just not practical for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see what your saying, but I question your expectation of it.
potentially it displays dozens of "informative apps" opening each app separately then gives you more detail. Consider Metro to be similar to your mobile phone, can you display several windows at once on your phone? unless your using WM probably not but what your phone does is displays you lots of bits of information usually very well. Metro takes this idea and gives it to your PC, a single key press will give you access to stacks of information at a glance, another key press gives you multi windowed windows, or if the metro app is any good you can fire it up in full screen.
Metro is a tool that on the desktop actually works great with impressive levels of productivity, metro on a tablet allows you a great level of finger friendly UI, desktop remains there all be it in a slightly less finger friendly fashion (bumping up the DPI can help here tho!)

dazza9075 said:
what your phone does is displays you lots of bits of information usually very well. Metro takes this idea and gives it to your PC, a single key press will give you access to stacks of information at a glance,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, yeah that's actually pretty useful. Would be great if desktop apps could create and maintain a Live Tile as well, so i could check my mail count etc with Windows key, but not necessarily read it in full-screen metro mode. They can't do that at the moment, but who knows, maybe later.

Akiainavas said:
Well, yeah that's actually pretty useful. Would be great if desktop apps could create and maintain a Live Tile as well, so i could check my mail count etc with Windows key, but not necessarily read it in full-screen metro mode. They can't do that at the moment, but who knows, maybe later.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
do you mean getting your mail program to display on the icon information about whats going on? wouldnt think there is much space to get any real info but if you pin your mail program (for the purpose of all my posts ill say that all desktop programs are programs and metro programs are apps) to your task bar then if the program has been designed correctly then it will display some limited info, outlook works great for me, and tells me how many emails i have sitting there.

HaVoKeR said:
I have used it for about 3 weeks now but i am still unsure whether it should be released along with the desktop OS when the RC comes out. tbh I see what they're trying to do, but it's a very bad move for desktop / laptops (unless touchscreen). Compatibility to older windows programs is limited and it's more of an annoyance than anything helpful. They tried to emulate the launch control in Mac with extra features, but i fail to see how this is revolutionary to desktop pcs and such. It just gave you two desktops, one of which you'll rarely use. Of course there are many other things I can complain about, but don't want to rant up this thread lol. Sure it looks pretty and all, but it's more limited than win7 and I don't see how that's a plus.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The UI is very different from the Mac and doesn't even work the same. Not sure where you got that - other than all touch interfaces use Icons....
Compatibility is outstanding. I was shocked at how many of my normal use applications ran perfect. For a Beta of a major OS change, the compatibility is excellent.
It's Win 7 AND more new features.
Win 8 will win you over (unless your an Apple fan) once you see how people utilize the OS enhancements.
---------- Post added at 03:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:02 AM ----------
Akiainavas said:
For tablet: like it very very much.
For desktop: dislike.
I will never use metro on my desktop PC. Why ? Because it cant display more than 1 app ( nope, 1/4 sized app pinned to left or right side does not count for me ). I will never use metro apps on desktop pc, and i think most people wont...so what is it there for ?
I have nothing against metro, and i like the tiles design. But using it on a desktop PC is just not practical for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure what you are talking about. You use the term "app" which to me is one of the little micro applications we use on tablets. Or, are you talking about applications like Streets and Trips, Excel, etc... If you're talking about Metro specifically, then maybe I see what you mean, but I've had multiple ones displayed and running on my laptop although in Metro the sizing is set to 1/3. I did some work with multiple windows between IRFan and Excel and used the old desktop to customize the sizing of the windows. So, again, not sure why you say you can't do it.???

Those same under the hood enhancements could have been made to Windows 7 while keeping and enhancing the Windows 7 UI and called Windows 8 on release (or even a Service pack FFS, look how big XP SP2 was).
It has nothing to do with Apple. It has nothing to do with under the hood improvements that could have been made to 7, anyways (like going from Vista to 7, hello...). It has to do with the jarring and otherwise terrible user experience this release has on non-touch PCs and also for multile monitor users (who are becoming more prevelant with budget graphics cards allowing this and LCD monitors being so cheap nowadays).
I've ran the beta on its own PC. It's terrible for desktop use and will deserve the reviews I'm almost sure it will get when it releases to non-touch users later this year.
Compatibility is always excellent because the Win32 API is forward compatible. There's nothing great, exciting, or unforseen about that. Solaris is UNIX and it has the same backward and forward API compatibility very similar to Windows.
They destroyed Multi-Tasking and generally destroyed the way people use their computers for the sold purpose of pushing their own dumb-down UI metaphor down people's throats. Metro wastes a ton of screen real estate. Look bow big the banners are in many of those apps, and how much odd whitespace is in some of them (Email app, Pictures app, etc.).
Then they throw a highly curated/bastardized version of the explorer shell in as an app and tell us "see, the desktop is still there" even though only Metro apps will be sold directly (and updated directly) via the Windows Store and they're basically deprecating Win32/MFC development, among other things.
I have a hard time calling this a multi-tasking OS, especially if you sit in Metro most of the time.
Sorry, but I'm not sure what YOU'RE talking about.

oh, your here as well, thanks for the constructive feedback, I trust you are using the feedback options within Win 8 to provide MS with your deep insights in to the workings of their BETA product that you asked to test for them
Oh, and Desktop isn't an app, its the desktop, its no different than before and ive not found anything that doesn't work yet strangely enough as i said on the other thread, multi tasking works fine
But anyhow, im not going to bother replying to it all as you seem to have completely made your mind up without really understanding what its all about

dazza9075 said:
oh, your here as well, thanks for the constructive feedback, I trust you are using the feedback options within Win 8 to provide MS with your deep insights in to the workings of their BETA product that you asked to test for them
Oh, and Desktop isn't an app, its the desktop, its no different than before and ive not found anything that doesn't work yet strangely enough as i said on the other thread, multi tasking works fine
But anyhow, im not going to bother replying to it all as you seem to have completely made your mind up without really understanding what its all about
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I stopped giving feedback when they stopped listening to and implementing the most trivial QoL changes in their products.
The Desktop doesn't even have a functioning start menu comparable to Windows Vista or 7 yet you somehow feel compelled to believe it's functionally identical.
Fine is in the eye of the beholder. Being thrown from Desktop to full screen metro apps and only being able to multi-task Metro apps by pinning one to 1/4the screen is a terrible compromise bordering on laughable.
Oh, and have you tried using Windows 8 on a non-touch laptop with only a Trackpad? Laughable...

N8ter said:
I stopped giving feedback when they stopped listening to and implementing the most trivial QoL changes in their products.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then why bother downloading it, its for testing purposes only
you have this so unbelievably wrong