Database Users

Sim Card causing g1 to overheat?

For the past 4 weeks I had HTC send me 2 replacement batteries and T-mobile sent me two replacement phones (one with a new battery), and my phone still overheats (over 100 degrees).
I swaping all my microsdhc and even took it out, and did notsolve the problem either.
The only thing left is the Sim card. Is it possible for a sim card to cause this? This is getting extremely frustrating.
The good thing is both HTC and TMobile have been really understanding, if not...I would be on other carrier with a different phone.
Jason

The sim is just a storage chip with a tiny amount of data on.. it doesn't actively do anything. It must be caused by something else.. is your phone overheating while charging or connected by usb, or does it happen all the time?

Only when I use the phone (talk, gps, edge, or wifi...FYI, I'm only running one at a time) it overheats.
Anyway, I just got my new sim and the back looks differnet than the one I got in November.
I have to say my phone runs cooler w/o the sim.
If you want to monitor the temp of your phone, download the Y-mobile "My Account" from the market, and check the battery status.
Jason

My phone is always over 100 degrees F, right now it's 102 and reaches over 112 easily
It seems pretty normal to me, the phone never shuts off or anything
My biggest regret is how slow this stupid thing is, you figure it being able to cook eggs would mean it's got some nice horsepower but this thing makes me wish I waited for the new palm OS

My phone is always over 100 degrees F, right now it's 102 and reaches over 112 easily
It seems pretty normal to me, the phone never shuts off or anything
My biggest regret is how slow this stupid thing is, you figure it being able to cook eggs would mean it's got some nice horsepower but this thing makes me wish I waited for the new palm OS

It also LOVES to double post as you can see

That's a triple post.....

Nah, I made that last post afterwards I didn't edit the post, although I wouldn't be surprised to hit a triple or even the elusive "super-quad" with this dumb thing

same problem here
I was going through the same thing. I mostly ran into this when I was using my fone as a thether. I kinda got worried so I contacted tmo andhtc and they said that it will get hot like that because of the wifi running as well as my screen never timing out. To top it all I was tethering through the usb. So it easly ran up to 115F. When it got that high I would jus bull out the battery and leave the back off for about 5 mins. If u run into this issue while ur fone is doing little or no activity then worry but if ur using data or multiple apps at once then its no biggie.

Aw jeez, I went to check setcpu and my post went bye bye
So a high temp all the time ISN'T normal?
I got:
JF 1.51 ADP
SetCPU 128/528
Advanced Task Manager, and I tend to keep everything killed besides aHome and Better Keyboard
I don't see any problems besides it giving me third degree burns and setting whatever I place it on on fire, goes slow hot or cold too

SetCPU
128/528 is a big jump, why not use default 384/528? Might help some of your performance issues.
Just a thought.

I thought it scaled itself accordingly and only went to 128 when I'm not running anything or the screen's off to save battery?

steveyos said:
I thought it scaled itself accordingly and only went to 128 when I'm not running anything or the screen's off to save battery?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It doesnt scale instantly.. cyanogen's done some init.rc mods to help this in his newer builds but theres always a reaction time between opening an app and the speed ramping up.
My properly configured g1 is pretty damn fast for a mobile device.. It sounds like you're ranting on about a problem you caused through lack of research. Good work.

steveyos said:
... makes me wish I waited for the new palm OS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What new palmOS?
PalmOS is dead and isn't coming back unless someone picks up Access Linux (which is said to have a palmOS Garnet 6 VM only for legacy palmOS support), but that doesn't seem likely as they've been pushing it as stable for years and have yet to sell it to anybody. It is now also pointless to support legacy palmos apps since *virtually nobody* has been developing for that platform since it died a few years ago.
This new thing that palm is selling... is not palmos. Its "webos" and is basically what apple phone v1 was and what chromeos sounds like it will be... i.e. no locally installed apps (except phone stuff) - all apps are net apps.

goldenarmZ said:
The sim is just a storage chip with a tiny amount of data on.. it doesn't actively do anything.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While I doubt it's the cause of the overheating, SIM chips are more than just passive storage. They do contain processors and can perform calculations (one of the main functions of SIMs in phones is to provide cryptographic computation for network access.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_card

My phone only gets warm when I'm tethering, charging or downloading large files over 3G.

goldenarmZ said:
It doesnt scale instantly.. cyanogen's done some init.rc mods to help this in his newer builds but theres always a reaction time between opening an app and the speed ramping up.
My properly configured g1 is pretty damn fast for a mobile device.. It sounds like you're ranting on about a problem you caused through lack of research. Good work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I actually leave my house now and then, so I rely on people like you to help me while throwing in a snotty comment at the end with these kinds of things because they bore me GOOD WORK THANKS
lbcoder said:
What new palmOS?
PalmOS is dead and isn't coming back unless someone picks up Access Linux (which is said to have a palmOS Garnet 6 VM only for legacy palmOS support), but that doesn't seem likely as they've been pushing it as stable for years and have yet to sell it to anybody. It is now also pointless to support legacy palmos apps since *virtually nobody* has been developing for that platform since it died a few years ago.
This new thing that palm is selling... is not palmos. Its "webos" and is basically what apple phone v1 was and what chromeos sounds like it will be... i.e. no locally installed apps (except phone stuff) - all apps are net apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh for real? The hell with that, I'll take android's poopified linux over that junk any day

steveyos said:
I actually leave my house now and then, so I rely on people like you to help me while throwing in a snotty comment at the end with these kinds of things because they bore me GOOD WORK THANKS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ha. Snotty comments are the price you pay for getting help from geeks.
Enjoy the outside world.. I'll just sit here getting progressively more pale-skinned and bitter as I cry into my coffee about my ever worsening social isolation, dolefully masturbating into an old sock over thoughts of the ladies nipples I'll never see. Because that's what we do.

steveyos said:
I actually leave my house now and then, so I rely on people like you to help me while throwing in a snotty comment at the end with these kinds of things because they bore me GOOD WORK THANKS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The snide comments are like little genuine seal of approvals that guarantee a real certified geek posted your reply. Let's compare a certified geek reply with an off-brand imposter:
The question:
I just upgraded from JF to Cyanogen but my G1 won't boot past the loading screen. HELP!
Geek Reply:
Reboot into recovery and wipe. And learn to search; this problem has been posted in the FAQ and many previous threads. Also I hope you get hit by a bus so the average aggregate human intelligence increases. <-- unbearably high pretentiousness authenticates the quality of the Geek reply.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Non-geek reply:
Lulz i had dis problem to. I just thru my laem g1 away and got iphone 3G!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Overheating
My phone got up to 102 once. It was from having it set at 583 MHz constant. I took it out of my pocket and almost dropped it because it was hot. Also as someone said earlier, it gets very hot while tethering. Any prolonged data use will cause it to heat up. I don't think it's really anything to worry about though. I'd imagine that it would cut off before any sort of damage could occur

Handled The Beast Today

My persistent knocking on the doors of mobile phone providers within a 30 mile radius from my home finally paid off today when I finally managed to get my hands on a HD2 (hoorah).
I have always said that there is no way on earth I would spend over £500 ona sim free device without first seeing one in the metal and testing it out. No one in their right mind buys a house or car without first seeing it and, if appropriate, testing it out before buying.
First Impressions:
Even though I had seen a dummy earlier, the size of the screen does come as a bit of a surprise. However this is a very thin device which makes the whole thing just about manageable. It is not quite as in-your-face, size-wise, as, say, the Toshiba TG01. Be aware though that there is absolutely a shedload of real screen estate to play with on the HD2.
Build quality looked very good. The back plate looks like a well machined item. I tweaked the keys around a little but did not experience the "wobble" that others have talked about.
The screen is a fingerprint magnet of the first order; however it is nothing a quick blow of hot, moist breath and a clean handkerchief can't cure very quickly. Maybe an appropriate screen protector might be helpful; however I cannot confirm.
Something else that was immediately apparent was just how fast the device is. Apps opened near instantaneously and the device was simply a joy to use.
The camera was rather interesting: as a brand new device, straight out of the box and booted up for the first time, the camera screen started up with a pink hue across the whole of the screen. I immediately thought of the pink issue that a lot of people have spoken about. However after about a minute the camera settled down and the pinkish hue cleared up.
The guy from o2 said that he had seen this start-up effect on all of the cameras he had seen/used/demonstrated/sold to date so I am assuming that this is "feature" of the device.
All the shots I took (indoors in artificial light) came out just fine and the quality, to my eyes, was good as far as camera's on mobile phones go.
I did not find the lack of a hardware camera button a problem. The fact is I actually preferred the on-screen shutter button; seemed pretty cool and effective.
The Keyboard:
I opened up MS Word and moved onto the dreaded keyboard.
Within a couple of seconds I could clearly see why some of you have given up on this device and sent it back. The keyboard out of the box is awful and stringing 2 words together was a real pain. However switch off the T9 function and the keyboard is transformed into something very very useful.
Yes, you have to be quite accurate with your fingers. I found I got the best results using my fingertips pointing near vertically downwards rather than horizontal and flat. The former method presents a narrow minimal area of the finger to the keyboard, resulting in reasonable/acceptable accuracy, while the latter method simply created problems, pulling in adjacent letters to the ones I wanted to use on nearly every occasion.
The key here is that, given I had no more than a half hour with the device, I found that I made no more mistakes with this keyboard, at no greater frequency, than I do now with my resistive keyboard on my TYTN, which I have had for over 3 years.
I did not get a chance to test the voice, email or sms functions as I did not have the time. Therefore I am unable to verify whether the problems others have mentioned were present in the device I tested or not.
Availability:
It is difficult to work out what the strategy is with the supply of this device. The 3 o2 shops I went into had only received 2 devices each! 2 out of the 3 shops had sold them on within a day and the 3rd, where I did my test, had 1 left.
None of the shops could confirm for certain when their next supplies would be in or how many handsets they would get. Each one suggested contacting them on a regular basis to see what the position is.
For me, given that this is a device in demand at probably the most advantageous marketing point in the year, i.e. the run up to Christmas, I cannot understand why there is so much uncertainty around the supply chain.
What Next?:
Now that I have finally laid my hands on the device, the key question I had to address was this; given all the horror stories on here about various problems, etc, was it sensible for me to become another early adopter given that this device will be used for business purposes where reliability is essential.
The decision I have made is, given the work currently being undertaken by C'monex and others coupled with custom roms already in the pipeline, plus the hints and tips thread in this forum, on balance I think it is just about worth the risk me jumping in and purchasing a device.
I was at this point 3 years ago when I first purchased my TyTN. To this day I consider it an absolute miracle that the device did not end its days under a hammer within the first week of ownership, so appallingly awful was that device straight out of the box.
Over time, and with a lot of people doing sterling work on here, things turned around to the point where I have a device that is rock solid stable, reliable and good to use.
I would strongly suggest that if anyone is considering buying this device, they find a live model to play with first before making their minds up. I can see why the keyboard could be a real deal breaker although I intend to purchase a capacitive stylus to get around some of the problems I foresee with non-finger friendly winmobile applications.
Conclusion:
This device looks very promising and yes, it does have issues, based on the reports we have seen here on XDA. You need to play with one first before making a decision to buy.
The keyboard is very different to a resistive one and requires patience, perseverance and good technique to get the best out of it.
I did not have enough time to have an exhaustive, comprehensive play with the device; however I have seen enough to determine that, on balance, and based on emerging developments here on XDA, I could live with it. Besides my current device is now long in the tooth and needs replacing.
The only fear I have is that once I have paid out my hard earned cash for this device, HTC bring out an Android HD2-like device using the snapdragon processor, which is really what I would prefer.
My order for a HD2 plus a HTC Hero goes in next week, depending on stock availability in the UK.
I hope this quick walk through is helpful to those who are trying to make a decision on this device, one way or another.
WB

Thanks WB for this excellent overview - certainly more down to earth and focused than most reviewers who don't know what to expect in HTC phones.
I too had a similar experience to your TYTN when I purchased my Polaris. Mine nearly took a high dive from the 30th floor of an office block when I got it. However in February this year, I installed epimazzo's KhanX ROM and didn't touch it again given how stable and usable everything was.
I've been watching the Leo forum closely for the past two weeks and I can see some of the top cookers hovering and waiting to pounce (oh, Hard SPL, wherefore art thou?). This device has so much potential and is so exciting that I purchased mine sight unseen.
The bugs and wrinkles are...ahem...par for the course if you buy a HTC phone these days. To my mind, there is nothing that appears insurmountable to the ROM chefs (respect). As I said, the phone has monstrous potential - seems like a solid GPS implementation plus the accelerometer, compass and proximity sensor. Bingo!
I had the option of going for any of the Samsung Omnia II, the Acer F1 and the Toshi phones. But none of those has the depth of support found here on xda (only iPhone comes close in community support). HTC owes many people on this forum in a big way - without it, probably you and I would have sh_tcanned HTC years ago...
And for someone who is always fiddling with my phone every day, the possibility of squeezing performance out of this thing is half the fun. May not suit those who need a perfect phone OOTB (like the iPhone for example).
He says confidently before he hits the SMS lag problem...

Update
Well, since I wrote the short review above and read XDA LEO forums end-to-end so my initial thoughts on jumping in and buying the device faded a little. Part of the problem was the sheer volume of negative noise coming from a number of people on these forums plus the fact that I have been here before with the Tytn, taking a year before I had a device I could both trust and like.
Those painful memories made me think long and hard about jumping in and doing the deed. What I needed to do was to get a sense of perspective and balance which was proving difficult to find on XDA. Also being able to lay hands on a device at will to play with was proving very difficult as the limited stocks becoming available were flying off the shelves as fast as they were coming in. This was at odds with all the negativity I was picking up here.
Now don't get me wrong, I am not knocking people. Those that were brave enough to post their honest views about the device, albeit negative ones, did me a huge favour, despite the fact that most of them faced massive hostility from the masses. What this meant for me was that instead of going into any decision rosy eyed I knew that if I bought into the HD2 world there would be problems to overcome, over and above the usual tweaks that one does because its windows, don't you know?!
Some sense of balance was found via the following polls, which I found to be invaluable:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=598900&highlight=polls (severity of grid display)
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=595655&highlight=poll (weird touch-screen behaviour)
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=591011&highlight=poll (earpiece and voice quality)
http://forum.xda-developers.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=2075 (HD2 speaker quality)
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=592375&highlight=poll (in search of balance).
So, approaching the festive season with the family nagging me to tell them what I wanted for Xmas, I rang a supplier, talked through all the known issues with them, which they were aware of. However the rate of returns on HD2's to them was so small as to be infinitesimal which meant one of 2 things:
- People were buying the device and either liking it or could live with it or
- The supplier wasn't telling me the truth (highly unlikely as I have been using them for a while now).
They were happy enough to agree to take the device back and return my funds if I did not like it either under the 7 day distance selling rules in the UK or by me ringing them up and indicating my preference.
Went back to the family, gave them the news and......a brand new HD2 landed in my sack on Xmas day via Santa Claus. What an amazing guy he is! Someone should offer to have his children for him.
Broke the box open last night, ie Xmas night and despite my anticipation, took time out to charge it up properly. Time spent now conditioning the battery correctly equals solid battery performance later down the line.
Tackled the beast in anger today. It is true to say that in the metal, this is a beautiful piece of engineering. Build quality on my version at least is excellent with none of the wobbly keys and ill fitting screen problems reported by others being noticable.
Went through setting up the device as I want it (yes, its been a long day and I have stopped now), made a complete backup immediately as my master backup, then installed tips no 8, 44, 46, 58 from the hints and tips thread and made another backup, separate from the original. This way if anything goes wrong I can simply roll back to the last successful change.
Points Worth Commenting On:
Keyboard:
The keyboard needs a degree of accuracy to use it successfully. I did not find the sensitivity out of the box an issue at all. Where I had to be absolutely accurate was in keying in my sim unlock code into the phone. Got that wrong too many times but practice will make perfect.
An even greater level of accuracy is required when trying to put ticks into selection boxes, e.g when installing Memmaid. This can prove frustrating as can the process of copying and pasting. I am sure that the capacitive stylus coming out of HTC will help with this "problem".
For me the keyboard works best without T9 switched on. However for sheer speed the Swype keyboard which I have installed is the way to go. Another version of this board (SlideIt) is readily available and I will be moving to that asap as Swype is NOT free-ware nor, as I have just found out, not officially released yet for the windows platform.
Weather Animations:
The weather animations are very good, just the sort of thing a chap needs to gain bragging rights down at the local pub. I have already seen most of the animations today due to the readily changing weather conditions we have had where we live.
Back Cover:
There is a serious but amusing thread on here where someone could not get their back cover off. Having already been through that thread I was not looking forward to my experience. However I can report that as long as you follow the instructions in the guide the cover is pretty easy to take off and put back on.
Overall First Impressions:
There is a hell of a lot to like about the HD2. There are things that I felt needed to change to suit me better. I have altered SMS to show in traditional mode rather than conversation mode as this works best for me.
Twitter and Facebook are of no use to me so these have not been configured.
I have yet to work out how to get the built-in picture viewer to pick up and show my pictures on the external SD card and there are a whole host of other things I have yet to get done. However day 1 has gone very very well indeed.
I will add to this post as I get to know the device a little better. In the meantime I am off to read the full manual to pick up on what else I need to know.
WB
PS: For those interested I am running Rom 1.48 straight out of the box. Not bothered with the SMS fix as I have not had any issues with SMS sending and receiving so far.
I am being meticulous about killing off apps not required but running in the background via the task manager. Also been straight onto the notification queue lock-up problem by installing Memmaid to sort that out.
Need to find a way of making sure that the X button really does kill off these open apps to save valuable memory space.
PPS: Really annoying niggle is after 10 goes I have not been able to put on the HTC screen protector properly. No matter how hard I try, even using a large cardboard piece to smooth it out, I can't get all the air bubbles out. I really want to use the protector but as it stands, I might have to take the risk and ditch it unless someone can pass on a full-proof method for putting the damned thing on properly.
I have never ever had this problem before in all the years I have had of devices that needed their screens protecting.
More updates soon.
WB

Regarding keyboard I recommend to use Swype or Finger Keyboard.

its a support forum 99% of posts here will be problems

wacky.banana said:
The only fear I have is that once I have paid out my hard earned cash for this device, HTC bring out an Android HD2-like device using the snapdragon processor, which is really what I would prefer.
My order for a HD2 plus a HTC Hero goes in next week, depending on stock availability in the UK.
I hope this quick walk through is helpful to those who are trying to make a decision on this device, one way or another.
WB
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Honestly I'd recommend waiting for the Xperia X10 if you want an android device. The HD2 in its current state is not something I'd want to use for everyday business use; it has still got some minor problems that needs addressing.

Toss3 said:
Honestly I'd recommend waiting for the Xperia X10 if you want an android device. The HD2 in its current state is not something I'd want to use for everyday business use; it has still got some minor problems that needs addressing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
have they sorted the speed of the x10 out yet, last videos i saw it was terrible

sharpey said:
have they sorted the speed of the x10 out yet, last videos i saw it was terrible
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's still in its beta stages so the software is bound to get faster once they've sorted out the minor bugs. I really doubt Sony would release it in its current state, but considering HTC released a device without proper texting support and awful call quality I can't say I'd be surprised.

Next year HTC brings out the HTC Bravo, it's an Android Phone (V. 2.0) with the snapdragon 1GHz and total similar to the HD2 instead of the 3,7" AMOLED (more than 16 mio colors) display .
I think it's the same as the hd2 just the android version of it
regards
HTC BRAVO: http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/08/htc-bravo-pictured-more-lucidly/

sharpey said:
its a support forum 99% of posts here will be problems
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@ sharpey,
Hey fella, merry Xmas to you. If you have been on here as long as I have you would know that XDA is not a support forum but a Developers forum, hence the name XDA-Developers. The conversation and posts used to be about cooked roms, hacking, development of tools and utilities, etc and pushing the technical envelope, NOT coping with people who won't or can't RTFM (read the manual).
It's only in recent times that new users have attempted to change the format and shape of the forum and it has now become, in part, a support forum because people like me like to help other people. Only problem is the noise generated by this process tends to obscure the real nuggets of good information one is looking for before investing in a device like this, e.g, SPL availability and associated development, availability of cooked roms, flexibility of the device from a hacking perspective, and so on. This is what I meant when I said I was looking for a balanced view on here but found it difficult to find what I was looking for although the polls I have linked to also provided useful info.
@ all others,
This thread is just a running update of the journey I went through until I got a HD2. I know there are a lot of people out there who are holding back on buying one as they are confused by how much information/misinformation there is out there on the HD2. All I am doing is sharing my experience in the hope that it helps someone.
Right now the device is 2 days old and I am Just loving it. :. Yes, there are some minor annoyances like the lack of a sent indicator when sms messages are sent; however I trust the device and if I want to be sure I simply look in my sent box to confirm the message is gone.
If you are considering buying a HD2, read this thread plus all the links, read the independent 3rd party reviews then go play with one in the metal, and, if you are happy, go buy one and ENJOY!!
WB

Windows Mobile.

Hello all,
I've had my TD2 for 4 months now and to be honest I am fed up of the amount of problems I've had with it, WITH NO SOLUTIONS!
I don't care about getting solutions anymore, even HTC couldn't help with most.
I think I will now just wait for a new phone to come out (THAT ISN'T WINDOWS MOBILE) because the problems are out weighing the good parts about this phone by quite a bit. I think Android may be alright. We'll see. But I cannot take how hard the phone is to use! IT'S SO SLUGGISH!
Here's the list of some problems I've had/got:
*Battery "Last Charge" notification not working.
*Music not playing in standby (Not a bug but still ****ing annoying.)
*EXTREME SLUGGISHNESS!
*Wi-Fi not connecting after standby!
Does anyone else feel the same?
Luke.

I'm a little confused about why you're posting, if you're so determined to move to another platform. I'm also wondering what you'll do when you discover the weaknesses of whichever other platform you move to (in my experience none of them are perfect!)
Your list of (presumably the most annoying) four problems is interesting. I had noted that the last charge notification doesn't work, but personally don't find that too big an issue as long as I can see how well charged the phone is. I have got pretty used to how long a charge will last me (much longer than on many phones I've had before).
Personally, again, I find the TD2 much more responsive than some phones I've used, and the good things about the phone - for me, but clearly not for you - outweigh the few niggles. I need the synchronisation with MS Office - hence I like WM, I also like the style, size and weight of the Topaz, compared with other WM phones I've had.
Enjoy your new phone when you get it.

And a good tip... No WM, no Android, but a basic Nokia. Very fast, good battery-feedback and most important... No possibility to do something wrong with it...
Serious, if you don't like WM, than you have to go for something else... At the same moment that's gonna be good for us... One useless-topic-opener less...
Good luck with the new phone.

Well to be honest, the sluggishness is the biggest problem, I can live with the rest if I have responsiveness. I get so frustrated at paying so much for a phone that's so slow.

LukeTurner93 said:
Well to be honest, the sluggishness is the biggest problem, I can live with the rest if I have responsiveness. I get so frustrated at paying so much for a phone that's so slow.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Flash a custom rom. Start reading the stickys in the "ROM Development"-section. After some days you can flash the rom of your choise... But it's very important the read a lot before, so you don't gonna break your device...
Happy reading, happy flashing...

Thanks, I'll take a look a custom roms

[DISCUSSION] Risks of Android on HD2!

Just a normal man thinking in a high voice!
Ok so i had a touch screen failure of my HD2 during usage of Android build; maybe it's a coincidence maybe not! But what annoys me is that i was preserving it nearly intact: never fell, no water, no heat, no cold, no underclocking or overclocking (except that smartass governor dims cpu to minimum by default when screen is off)
Fixed it in the end and cost me nearly 1/4 the price of the phone (120$)!
So let's face it! HD2 was DESIGNED for Winmo 6.5 and not for android! And please nobody try to convince me that it doesn't have any side effects!
Well, it's like using diesel oil for a regular gasoline car! There has to be some disorders! Or using a BMW engine on a Peugeot! Maybe the chassis will handle it but not the cooling system or the clutch or the wheels or etc....
So let's begin with some of the concerns that i think of and excuse me if some questions look silly, i'm neither a technician nor a developer! (i know many of them have some basic answers, but here i'm questioning even these answers):
1-About touch screen:
Well HD2 screen is capable of 128k colors if i remember good while android GENERATES or produce 16M colors; couldn't that have affected the pixels of the screen itself?! Couldn't that be warming these pixels to higher rates than normal rates that this screen can withstand?! Maybe the system is obliging in a way or another the pixels to display those colors while they can't physically so the are failing at the end?!
(I simulate it to overclocking of the CPU: making the CPU run at higher speeds than the original ones that it was designed to work under will make it fail in the end after some time)
(and please don't tell me this has nothing to do with the OS, bcz let's not forget that the screen was limited to 65k colors in winmo while it is capable of 128k colors, so OS does matter)
2-About CPU/battery/cell temperature:
I couldn't separate those 3 characteristics coz they are highly related! (and even related to the screen )
If we overclock ==> cell temp increase
If we underclock ==> cell temp decrease
And both are bad logically for the phone, because simply those smart engineers at HTC that designed the phone knew what were they doing; that's why they kept CPU out of reach of children p us) because it will regulates the temp of the cell phone automatically to optimal values!
Anyway, who said that optimal values for normal HD2 (winmo) with it's 64or128k colors screen are the same optimal values for an android phone with it's 16M colors screen!?
So my touchscreen failed suddenly while in android, couldn't the smartass governor was the reason behind it bcz it dropped the cell phone temp to less than 26deg in idle and something in the screen failed/broke?!?
What about the cooling system/ventilation in the phone?!?!
Maybe because of its high power consumption (thus temperature) an android phone is designed to ventilate/cool the system in a manner that a winmo can't do like our beloved HD2!?! Maybe that's why our phones gets so hot during heavy use!?
Many other questions come to my mind...Just wanted to discuss some points, and evidently many other points that you will share to see if using android on our beloved HD2 is safe after all or not...
Cheers

I've read about your touchscreen failure in another thread, and while I'm very sorry for you, how can you be sure it's because of Android? I'm not saying it's not possible, but just running an OS during a failure doesn't mean the OS caused it, I can imagine some people have had touchscreen failures on WinMo too.
Just trying to keep things a little in perspective here.
1. The screen is capable of 16M colors (not 128k). WinMo only supports 65k, and I believe Android does at this point too. Pixels are unrelated to the touch sensitive part anyway.
2. Overclocking can indeed have serious consequences for your CPU (and possible surrounding parts too), and should *always* be done with caution (better to refrain from it at all actually, the small performance gain isn't worth it). I believe all kernel devs indicate the possible and imminent danger of overclocking.
Underclocking can't be a problem though, that's obvious. Extreme cooling can destroy parts, but heating it up less than usual is still not at all the same as cooling something down.
Again, I'm sorry for what happened to your phone, but I think you're somewhat overreacting.
Edit: a more likely explanation for an Android-related failure would be that your CPU somehow went insane and produced too high temperatures, breaking stuff down. This isn't typical behaviour though, and can almost always be prevented.

Life Engineer said:
Just a normal man thinking in a high voice!
Ok so i had a touch screen failure of my HD2 during usage of Android build; maybe it's a coincidence maybe not! But what annoys me is that i was preserving it nearly intact: never fell, no water, no heat, no cold, no underclocking or overclocking (except that smartass governor dims cpu to minimum by default when screen is off)
So let's face it! HD2 was DESIGNED for Winmo 6.5 and not for android! And please nobody try to convince me that it doesn't have any side effects!
Well, it's like using diesel oil for a regular gasoline car! There has to be some disorders! Or using a BMW engine on a Peugeot! Maybe the chassis will handle it but not the cooling system or the clutch or the wheels or etc....
So let's begin with some of the concerns that i think of and excuse me if some questions look silly, i'm neither a technician nor a developer! (i know many of them have some basic answers, but here i'm questioning even these answers):
1-About touch screen:
Well HD2 screen is capable of 128k colors if i remember good while android GENERATES or produce 16M colors; couldn't that have affected the pixels of the screen itself?! Couldn't that be warming these pixels to higher rates than normal rates that this screen can withstand?! Maybe the system is obliging in a way or another the pixels to display those colors while they can't physically so the are failing at the end?!
(I simulate it to overclocking of the CPU: making the CPU run at higher speeds than the original ones that it was designed to work under will make it fail in the end after some time)
(and please don't tell me this has nothing to do with the OS, bcz let's not forget that the screen was limited to 65k colors in winmo while it is capable of 128k colors, so OS does matter)
2-About CPU/battery/cell temperature:
I couldn't separate those 3 characteristics coz they are highly related! (and even related to the screen )
If we overclock ==> cell temp increase
If we underclock ==> cell temp decrease
And both are bad logically for the phone, because simply those smart engineers at HTC that designed the phone knew what were they doing; that's why they kept CPU out of reach of children p us) because it will regulates the temp of the cell phone automatically to optimal values!
Anyway, who said that optimal values for normal HD2 (winmo) with it's 64or128k colors screen are the same optimal values for an android phone with it's 16M colors screen!?
So my touchscreen failed suddenly while in android, couldn't the smartass governor was the reason behind it bcz it dropped the cell phone temp to less than 26deg in idle and something in the screen failed/broke?!?
What about the cooling system/ventilation in the phone?!?!
Maybe because of its high power consumption (thus temperature) an android phone is designed to ventilate/cool the system in a manner that a winmo can't do like our beloved HD2!?! Maybe that's why our phones gets so hot during heavy use!?
Many other questions come to my mind...Just wanted to discuss some points, and evidently many other points that you will share to see if using android on our beloved HD2 is safe after all or not...
Cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The "TOUCH SCREEN" has nothing to do with the CPU, therefore no amount of overclocking will damage your "touch screen".
Has your pc monitor ever got damaged by overclocking your pc's cpu? NO
Just because your screen stopped working in Android doesn't mean that it was caused by Android.
The GPU driver would limit Android or any other OS from forcing 16m colours on a 128k screen therefore no damage would be caused to the screen itself because it is limited by the driver. The driver tells Android (or any other OS) which resolution and colour depth is supported and will only support that. Just because Android is capable of 16m doesn't mean it will force that colour depth.
This was simply a manufacturing defect in your screen and could have happened at any time, it could have happened in WinMo but just happened to happen while your phone was booted into Android.
Also be aware that the screen is TFT, and there is a separate layer called the digitizer above the actual TFT screen which senses the touch. They are separate components, therefore the screen itself isn't a touch screen.

if devs or experience users can post wats the maximum temp and ma a hd2 device could take that would realy help us alot to see if a built is working normaly or pushing our hardware excessively..mayb juz a gauge like say over 36 degress is a risk or sumting like that..info like this will realy help us users

Stop overreacting, its just a hardware failure, just get it fixed and youre good to go.

derycklong said:
Stop overreacting, its just a hardware failure, just get it fixed and youre good to go.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Man no one is overreacting! I fixed it (maybe you didn't read the thread after all) and i am willing to use android again!!! However, if we shacked our brains a bit to see if android has any down effects on our cells, it wouldn't be such a bad thing!!! Nothing to loose, and maybe many things to win after all!

I wanted to put down a whole story on how stupid your comparison's are and how you should leave the thinking about this stuff to ppl who actually know what they are talking about.
Android wont destroy your hardware its a bare bone operating system with custom drivers to run on our HD2. Software imput cant realy damage your hardware unless your overclocking.
Take it from ppl who know what they are talking about seeing you seem to be clueless

shuntje said:
I wanted to put down a whole story on how stupid your comparison's are and how you should leave the thinking about this stuff to ppl who actually know what they are talking about.
Android wont destroy your hardware its a bare bone operating system with custom drivers to run on our HD2. Software imput cant realy damage your hardware unless your overclocking.
Take it from ppl who know what they are talking about seeing you seem to be clueless
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No need to be rude! That's what i said in my post, i'm not a technician or a developer, i just have some concerns/questions and i need to be insured!
Besides, i am pretty sure that many others have many other concerns/questions!
That's why i titled it a "discussion"!
So if you are ready for a good discussion welcome; if you are not or think yourself much highly educated to discuss such silly ideas you can keep you mouth shut like many people did!
Regards

Software just doesn't work like that.
If any, the only side-effects that I can see is that we are using the Hardware Buttons more often, therefore they might fail earlier using Android instead of WinMobile.

The car comparison isnt really good.. Its more like when you buy a computer from the market with preinstalled windows os and put a linux on it. It wont kill your pc. It may not work as intended because of driver issues, but if set properly, there should be no problem. And as far as i know, its not that easy to overheat a cpu, because there is a hardware security built in, so your mobo knows what to do. It will just shut down. Sure,you can have bad luck and your cpu can die. I dont overclock my HD2 (only for benchmarking maybe), but i concider myself as a hardcore pc overclocker (like 15 years now), so i am aware of the potential risks and know what i am talking about

I agree with Greg on this one
Hardware is hardware on a computer..
If the correct software is written for it it will run.
I.e i run emulators on android and thats emulating the 68000 chip set no problems there.
But most damge you will cause to your phone is over clocking the CPU until it dies..
Reminds me when used to run windows 3.1 on my old AMiga

If this puts your mind at rest and stops people flaming.
No your touch screen failure was unrelated to Android. The cpu temps and screen res would not have been related. Had you had cpu or screen res/pixel related issues your symptoms would have different.
There are some risks to android, the worst of them being imho your battery going flat when your desperately trying to phone for a lift because the trains and buses have stopped and it's bloody cold outside (as I found out last week). However what I'd suggest is rather then non-devs making uneducated guesses we leave threads like this to the devs who can state specifically what the risks are.

Well, the worst that can happen, is killing the phone. happend to me. I started android, went outside the room for a minute and when I came back, the phone was dead and awfully hot. Fortunately htc repaired it ...

greg17477 said:
The car comparison isnt really good.. Its more like when you buy a computer from the market with preinstalled windows os and put a linux on it. It wont kill your pc. It may not work as intended because of driver issues, but if set properly, there should be no problem. And as far as i know, its not that easy to overheat a cpu, because there is a hardware security built in, so your mobo knows what to do. It will just shut down. Sure,you can have bad luck and your cpu can die. I dont overclock my HD2 (only for benchmarking maybe), but i concider myself as a hardcore pc overclocker (like 15 years now), so i am aware of the potential risks and know what i am talking about
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now that´s a nice comparison... but still, the operating system as a whole, means including hard- and software, is a highly complex entity.
Concerning LC displays, you can actually kill them if the power on sequence (eg. the voltage), which drives the display, is wrong. Depending on the display, there is a certain range of voltage which is fine, but below or higher still can produce problems or even permanent damage. Please don´t forget the complex structure of the LCD´s in our HD2´s.

To concur with some of the above posts, I have a computer that I have running Windows 7 on. I have also run XP and Vista on it.
Additionally I run Linux on it.
And if that were not enough, I am brave enough to admit I run OSX on it.
None of these affect any aspect of my hardware.
Now I do believe I do not have a large enough power supply to run my two hard drives, two optical, dual video cards and pro audio card. But that is a hardware issue, as the OP's issue clearly was hardware failure.
And yes, usage does affect computer/mobile life, no matter the OS it is running.

Life Engineer said:
No need to be rude! That's what i said in my post, i'm not a technician or a developer, i just have some concerns/questions and i need to be insured!
Besides, i am pretty sure that many others have many other concerns/questions!
That's why i titled it a "discussion"!
So if you are ready for a good discussion welcome; if you are not or think yourself much highly educated to discuss such silly ideas you can keep you mouth shut like many people did!
Regards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again you stated in your first post dont try and convince me that it was not android that killed my toutch screen. So thats why i was rude ppl who say stuff like that in a opening post while saying you want a discussion is just useless.

winmobile screen failure
if this were any assurance to go by, here's my story: I had a screen failure of my hd2 back in the time when I was running it with windows mobile only - it simply would not respond to touch at all.. fortunately, htc has repaired it and I've been assured that such problems might happen to some handsets from the first months of production... my screen (or was it digitizer) was apparently replaced by a newer version/model... Since then everything has been running very smoothly on my hd2, and I've been testing all sorts of android versions available on this forum.. no problems with the screen or anything whatsoever...

Your concern are not logical to begin with. First of all: Android is a piece of software, that runs on top of Windows Mobile. It won't change anything. It is self containing. So it's like any other App you downloaded from the Windows Marketplace. Secondly: The gamut of Android or WinMo has nothing to do with what the LCD is really able to produce. If you turn down Windows 7 16bit Colordepth, you'll only get 16bit. If you crank it up to 32bit and your monitor is only able to handle 16bit, than you'll see 16bit colors. No pixel will overheat. And the last point: Underclocking won't damage you CPU. It will even increase the lifespan of it, because it does not have to process as many inputs and outputs within each second. If you just run Winmo, it is much colder than using an app.
It is just a hardwarefailure, nothing more. Happened to all of us at least once.

NessD said:
Android is a piece of software, that runs on top of Windows Mobile. It won't change anything. It is self containing. So it's like any other App you downloaded from the Windows Marketplace.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wrong.

/Two cents,
My phone’s touchscreen broke while using Android. I eventually found my “Back” key is somehow interfering with the touch, and now when it happens I need to press the key many many times to stop it jamming the screen’s input. Very annoying but luckily not so serious to need replacing (yet).
As stated above, I think hardware-wise the biggest issue with Android is that you probably will use your buttons more, and as your device is likely to be over a year old, it’s possible you’ll see these give way more. But *shrug* what can you do? Every hardware has a shelf-life. And my hardware fault may well have occurred just as easily on Android.
//Edit: *On Windows Mobile

Thinking of purchasing, need some opinions

Hey all,
Firstly, if this thread is in the wrong place, then by all means move it. There are specific threads for Android and Wp7 questions, however this does not have to do with either of them specifically.
Anyways, I'm thinking of getting the HD2; I know it's an ageing phone but it seems to do the impossible
My reasons are
1) I'm looking for a phone to tie me over until I can afford a more "Upgrade-y" kind of upgrade, specs wise it is a downgrade from my current phone.
2) I love tinkering with phones and using the latest builds of whatever this baby runs. Unfortunately I'm no dev but maybe I'll get to it some day. Anyways, this will be more or less a toy for me, and perhaps even an educational tool.
3) I've gone through a lot of phones and I tend to get somewhat bored with them, which is why I cycle through them pretty often. The amazing HD2 runs so many things I doubt I'm going to get bored.
Anyways, I would like some user opinions on the usability of this phone. I realize that using the latest Jelly Bean build or whatnot will probably be slow and sluggish, and that's usually fine (as long as it's not slow to the point where it's unusable) but at times I will need stable roms. I'd like to know how performance is on the most stable of roms. I don't use it for games much, only texting and light web browsing, so for these simple tasks I'd expect them to be buttery smooth, but is that how it works in reality? let me know.
Also, aside from the great things I hear about the HD2, I've also heard of a freezing issue that pretty much renders the phone unusable without a hard reboot, and I hear it is due to the CPU overheating. I'm not sure if this is such a common issue but please let me know.
Finally, how does this perform with day to day functions? Screen legibility, speaker volume, responsiveness, battery life, etc...
Thanks a ton!
-Dillon

I had no problems using the HD2 until the digitizer died on me (common issue).. Screen legibility is great on such a huge screen, speaker volume is good, responsiveness is good, and battery life is decent. I could get through an entire day with some calls, some games, some texting and still have ~40% left. The performance is great on most roms I have tried. All AOSP/CM/etc ICS, GB, and Froyo are all very smooth. Even the sense roms ported over from newer devices are butter smooth. There are so many choices, you can practically flash a new rom every week and won't be bored by the end of the year.

Hey, thanks for the reply.
Do you know what the digitizer problem is caused by? Perhaps I can prevent it. But if I can't, would buying a new digitizer fix the problem?
Sent from my Kindle Fire using xda app-developers app

No problem, the digitizer problem is caused by the digitizer flex ribbon physically wearing out over time. It only occurs because the "end call/power" button is directly on top of that flex ribbon.. You can avoid this by not using the power button at all and use an app that emulates that button to turn off your phone. Buying a new digitizer will fix the problem, but if you have never opened the HD2 before, best to pay a professional to do it since it is a pain in the arse to disassemble and assemble..

Been using an HD2 for a good while and basically I would have to think very caerfully before upgrading. It does everything I need and does most things very well indeed. If you can find one at a good s/h price I'd say go for it.
Advantages:
Good screen for Internet browsing,etc.
Gorilla glass so reasonably damage-resistant.
One of the best phone cameras I've used, can be tweaked even further, see hacks.
GPS and magnetic compass.
Plays music even when in standby.
NOT WM7 so you don't have to encrypt the microSD card.
Stable. Runs for weeks without crashing.
Disadvantages:
A bit large. (I keep mine in a shirt pocket, which I find works well.)
Needs charging daily if you use it a lot. (Spare batts are cheap though)
Limited RAM, therefore don't open too many apps at once.
OS WM6.5, less easy to use than Android, though plenty free apps available.
Major annoyance:
Random dialling when on phone screen, due to static or a shirtsleeve-touch. Wish I could find a way to remove that speed-dial background list which seems to be the culprit. Basically, NEVER leave the thing on the phone screen unless you are in a call.
Minor annoyance:
Badly placed volume keys. Hard to pick up without accidentally changing volume.
Not all headphones are suitable for music use. Some give very inadequate volume.

IWR said:
Been using an HD2 for a good while and basically I would have to think very caerfully before upgrading. It does everything I need and does most things very well indeed. If you can find one at a good s/h price I'd say go for it.
Advantages:
Good screen for Internet browsing,etc.
Gorilla glass so reasonably damage-resistant.
One of the best phone cameras I've used, can be tweaked even further, see hacks.
GPS and magnetic compass.
Plays music even when in standby.
NOT WM7 so you don't have to encrypt the microSD card.
Stable. Runs for weeks without crashing.
Disadvantages:
A bit large. (I keep mine in a shirt pocket, which I find works well.)
Needs charging daily if you use it a lot. (Spare batts are cheap though)
Limited RAM, therefore don't open too many apps at once.
OS WM6.5, less easy to use than Android, though plenty free apps available.
Major annoyance:
Random dialling when on phone screen, due to static or a shirtsleeve-touch. Wish I could find a way to remove that speed-dial background list which seems to be the culprit. Basically, NEVER leave the thing on the phone screen unless you are in a call.
Minor annoyance:
Badly placed volume keys. Hard to pick up without accidentally changing volume.
Not all headphones are suitable for music use. Some give very inadequate volume.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the informative response. Did you happen to have the digitizer issue that Jian had, or the overheating issue?
When you said that some headphones were unsuitable for music, was it specifically headphones with a Mic or Volume control on them? Trying to use a pair of Monster Jamz (which had volume/playback control for iPod/iPhone) didn't really give me a "full" sound without pressing on the play/pause button.
Also, all of these things were on WinMo 6.5, correct? Have you tried a WP7 or Android rom?

Had my phone since release date.yep your right, the phone is a Beast!
I cannot recall how many roms, builds, os's whatever you want to call em i have installed in the past year fews and everytime i love my phone even more .i think the only time i will get another phone is if the hardware specs outweigh the hd2 that it cannot cope will a new os ie window8 apparently
Listen, There are thousands of reviews on this website but dont read into it that much. Its all about trial and error and how you go about your own business - by all means read the threads too as common faults do occur- but every phone user is different and alot of factors have an impact ie have you got the right radio installed ,have you got the right SD card? Have you formatted the card properly ie task 29 before installing a new rom have you installed the right files etc all these issues people face are repairable but ultimately,so you will have a different experience than others.
The old windows6.5 rom were absolutely great and fun to customize
Android builds that i tried were up to scratch for everyday use , stability wise, battery life fantastic internt browsing email etc great no lag freezing
Windows7 some battery issues with certain roms and overheating i did come across at first , again if you experience this "trial and error" try another rom, im currently using pdamatejam now for 2months no looking back.. For everyday use, stability excellant, battery life over 24hours etc no lag freezing
Im dualbooting so chopping and changing inbetween android and windows 7 a feature many phones cannot offer.i love the hd2
Note..Newly release build/roms will be unstable when first , thats expected but overtime they become more stable as through feedback from this forum the little errors problems are reticfied -i always wait until these problems are eradicated but everyones different as lot ofpeople like to try new releases roms and leave feedback which is what the dev are asking for-
Another note the SD card ..this is a MASSIVE factor imho which causes many people problems ie boot loops freezing crashing.... I have been through 5different sd card from the start of the hd2 when you stop having problems you know you got the right one, but stay away from fakes Period.
Good luck

Thanks a ton guys
I've another question; Should I get the TMOUS phone for it's bigger ROM capacity? If so, how can I even tell if it has more ROM than the regular? All T-Mobile phones are like that?

DillonBladez said:
Thanks a ton guys
I've another question; Should I get the TMOUS phone for it's bigger ROM capacity? If so, how can I even tell if it has more ROM than the regular? All T-Mobile phones are like that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes all tmous have 1gb internal rom. You can tell a tmous by the red+green send+end keys, and it says T-Mobile beneath the ear piece.(and its fractionally longer) They're slightly easier to brick than regular hd2, but only in one particular way (wrong radio) so as long as you know the danger it needn't be a worry.
As for jellybean, in the days since your first post there are now several jb roms that are shaping up to be as good as any previous versions. I'm running jb with my processor UNDER clocked, and barely a hint of lag anywhere.

Thanks for the insight!
This phone really seems to live up to it's name.
What do you guys think of WP8 on the device? I think I read somewhere that it's using a different kernel or something from WP7, and that it's a pain in the ass to get it to work with new hardware that it wasn't meant for.

i got the hd2 when it came out and i'm still using it today. It's just that good.

Also, I forgot to ask; Is there a notification LED on the HD2? It seems so small that it's not really mentioned anywhere, for any phone, but it's quite useful to me.

DillonBladez said:
Also, I forgot to ask; Is there a notification LED on the HD2? It seems so small that it's not really mentioned anywhere, for any phone, but it's quite useful to me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes there is. It is on the left side of the speaker and it only has two colors: amber/orange and green.

I personally think the development effort would best be utilised on last of WP7 to make functionality superb & a few innovations to make W8 users envious.
Chasing latest OS's does not always result in real practical usable device.

friend its perefect the phone big variety of roms!

Sorry for not replying for a while,
Does the hd2 encounter some of the force close mishaps caused by lack of ram? Its only got 512mb, and I find my current phone with the same amount of ram to be doing this often. Would the wp7 Roms perform better in the stability aspects?
Thanks a ton,
Dillon.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app

I still have an HD2 sitting w/a couple extra cells I'm not using, it's still brand new, it was never used just the box opened. I'm kinda slow answering emails but give me a shout.

I'm running the latest Jelly Bean build without overclocking and I think it runs rather smooth. At times it can pause for just a slit second but this isn't very often.
If your looking for a great phone that can do just about anything (but Sense 4) then this is the phone. Because this phone has a very high developer following it
often has new ROMs being released. This is one of the biggest reasons why I got the phone myself. I came from the HTC Touch Pro 2 so I picked this phone up
back in late 2009 early 2010. There are some great deals for the phone now that its several years old but I really feel this phone is going to last a long time to come.

htccraze said:
I'm running the latest Jelly Bean build without overclocking and I think it runs rather smooth. At times it can pause for just a slit second but this isn't very often.
If your looking for a great phone that can do just about anything (but Sense 4) then this is the phone. Because this phone has a very high developer following it
often has new ROMs being released. This is one of the biggest reasons why I got the phone myself. I came from the HTC Touch Pro 2 so I picked this phone up
back in late 2009 early 2010. There are some great deals for the phone now that its several years old but I really feel this phone is going to last a long time to come.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm looking to use the phone mainly for text messaging, perhaps some facebook and light gaming.
Right now I'm choosing between the HD2 and the S II.
They both seem to have a bit of developer backing (obviously the HD2 has more), but is the S II worth the extra $150ish over the HD2?

Hmm thats hard to say. Both are great phones but personally I like HTC phones a little more. Mainly because I like HTC Sense. Samsung though is my second favorite so you really can't go wrong with either. I really like the Galaxy S II and the screen is a lot better then the HD2 as well as the camera. Some of its other specs are a little better then the HD2 but the big selling point is choice. With the HD2 if you start to get tired of Windows Mobile 6.5 (stock) you can switch to Android. Then if you ever get tired of that you can go to Windows Phone 7.5. I've bought several phones since I bought my HD2 some even that were dual core but I've always seem to end up going back to the HD2 so that should say something. I would check out some videos on youtube about both phones you're looking at to try and get an idea of what you feel you'll like best.