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Will someone kindly explain to me, in plain English, the difference between the different types of data services available on the Athena and other 3G devices?
Here's what I know now:The basic voice/data protocol when not in a 3G coverage area is GSM. Since I use AT&T, the 2G (or 2.5G) data service is EDGE. When in the most rural of areas, I'm using simple GPRS for data service, represented by a G on the status bar. When EDGE is available, the G changes to an E.
So far, so good.
Where I'm getting confused is when I enter a 3G service area. It seems that there are two levels of 3G: UMTS (represented by 3G on the status bar) and HSDPA (represented by an H). Also, when in a 3G area, the phone application (and the Wireless Today plugin if it's enabled) show "AT&T UMTS." Now, as I understood it, UMTS is an entire cellular protocol, designed to succeed GSM, and not a data service specifically. HSDPA is the data service.
So, what is the practical difference between a "3G" on the status bar and an "H" on the status bar?
Can someone in the know please sort this out for me?
Thanks.
In simple English the '3G' symbol shows when we are in a UMTS active area. It will show the large "3G" connected to the small "3G" when attached to the UMTS data network but not downloading/uploading anything.
If you then open an application (like Outlook and hit send/receive) the ["3G" 's] both change to ["H" 's] as the HSDPA compression kicks in. This is, of course, depending on having the HSDPA active.
Once the data exchange has ended, it returns to ["3G" 's] to show that we are still in a high speed data 'available' area. If we leave the "3G" area, we get handed of to the "E" 's for the Edge network. If we leave the Edge area, we get downgraded again to ["G" 's] for the GPRS. As you have correctly noted, it's all about speed.
You should only see the ["H" 's] on for an extended time if you are downloading a large file or perhaps streaming media to your device. The "H" shows that the compression algorithm is active, otherwise, the 3G shows when the service is available, but idle.
You may see a single '3G' meaning you are in a UMTS active area but not connected. You should never see a single "H", only a double "H" during a "3G" connected session. I have tested this by turning off HSDPA and the double "3G" remains during downlink, meaning the data is still at a higer speed than Edge, but not using the HSDPA compression. Hope this answers your question.
raskell said:
In simple English the '3G' symbol shows when we are in a UMTS active area. It will show the large "3G" connected to the small "3G" when attached to the UMTS data network but not downloading/uploading anything.
If you then open an application (like Outlook and hit send/receive) the ["3G" 's] both change to ["H" 's] as the HSDPA compression kicks in. This is, of course, depending on having the HSDPA active.
Once the data exchange has ended, it returns to ["3G" 's] to show that we are still in a high speed data 'available' area. If we leave the "3G" area, we get handed of to the "E" 's for the Edge network. If we leave the Edge area, we get downgraded again to ["G" 's] for the GPRS. As you have correctly noted, it's all about speed.
You should only see the ["H" 's] on for an extended time if you are downloading a large file or perhaps streaming media to your device. The "H" shows that the compression algorithm is active, otherwise, the 3G shows when the service is available, but idle.
You may see a single '3G' meaning you are in a UMTS active area but not connected. You should never see a single "H", only a double "H" during a "3G" connected session. I have tested this by turning off HSDPA and the double "3G" remains during downlink, meaning the data is still at a higer speed than Edge, but not using the HSDPA compression. Hope this answers your question.
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Excellent explanation. Thanks. Not that I needed it, but many noobs to 3G based devices might.
Thanks for your positive comments, mackaby007
Hi, I'm aware that my UK T-mobile Ameo is HSDPA capable and I think I'm in a HSDPA covered area but the homescreen only ever shows a little 3G symbol (or a GSM symbol when I'm not in a 3G covered area).
Is there a way to know whether I'm using HSDPA?
I guess one way would be to do a download speed test - anyone know a convenient way to do one?
tfotherby said:
Is there a way to know whether I'm using HSDPA?
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If you were using HSDPA, the 3G symbol would change to an H.
However, if you only have the £7.50 web and walk package, and only signed up after the summer, you do not have HSDPA on your account.
The £12.50 and above tarriffs come with HSDPA automatically, but for the £7.50 plan, you need to ask for it and hope that someone likes you enough to add it.
By the way, On T-mobile, you will not see the H all the time. It will only appear when you are transferring data. At all other times you will see the 3G symbol so that you are able to receive calls. If you are transferring data on HSDPA, the T-Mobile Uk network will force you down to 3G while the call is routed to you, and then jump back to HSDPA when the call ends to carry on downloading.
T-Mobile is the only network i have seen that does this properly.
Also, T-Mobile has gone HSDPA on all of their 3G transmitters. If you get 3G coverage, you definitely have HSDPA coverage, but you don't necessarily have permission to connect at HSDPA speeds.
tfotherby said:
Hi, I'm aware that my UK T-mobile Ameo is HSDPA capable and I think I'm in a HSDPA covered area but the homescreen only ever shows a little 3G symbol (or a GSM symbol when I'm not in a 3G covered area).
Is there a way to know whether I'm using HSDPA?
I guess one way would be to do a download speed test - anyone know a convenient way to do one?
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Click to collapse
Agreed, you will see the H symbol instead of the 3G signal - I am on O2 and it works fine (you should also see an E to show an Edge connection where available).
The point about tariffs is one for you to take up with T-Mobile.
Make sure the HSDPA checkbox is checked, in Settings > Connections > HSDPA Switch. When I'm in a 3G area and I start downloading something, the 3G symbol temporarily changes to an H symbol, then changes back to 3G when done.
cottinghamm said:
I am on O2 and it works fine
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Do you see the H all the time, or only when you are transferring data? I know that on some networks that have an old revision of the HSDPA software, it can cause issues with receiving calls if you are on HSDPA the whole time. Have you had any issues with this?
tfotherby said:
Hi, I'm aware that my UK T-mobile Ameo is HSDPA capable and I think I'm in a HSDPA covered area but the homescreen only ever shows a little 3G symbol (or a GSM symbol when I'm not in a 3G covered area).
Is there a way to know whether I'm using HSDPA?
I guess one way would be to do a download speed test - anyone know a convenient way to do one?
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Click to collapse
Firstly, you will only see an H if your ROM has different icons for 3G and HSDPA. Some do some don't. If the ROM doesn't have that facility, the 3G icon won't change even if you are occasionlly using HSDPA. As far as I am remember, some of the stock T-Mob ROMs do not include this.
You do not AFAIK need to ask T-Mobile for HSDPA. I have never asked them and regularly used it. I am on a £7.50 plan.
There are plenty of speed test sites out there - Google 3G speed test.
Another good site to check speed is "http://performance.toast.net/default.asp?allservers=1&checkid=" I usually check the "Text" box and try a few hosts...TJ
rhedgehog said:
Do you see the H all the time, or only when you are transferring data? I know that on some networks that have an old revision of the HSDPA software, it can cause issues with receiving calls if you are on HSDPA the whole time. Have you had any issues with this?
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Only when data is transferred, the 3G symbol is there most of the time.
always been seeing the H on mine, right from the original T-Mobile UK ROM. All Windows mobile 6 ROMS from HTC include the different icons, and unless the operators specify to take them out, they should always be there.
the T-Mobile ROMs do include the different icons, as do all the AP ROMs.
Sometimes you DO have to ask T-Mob for HSDPA. They originally turned HSDPA on for the £7.50 contracts by default. They changed this standard policy sometime last year (as i stated in my first post, i think it was in the summer, but i'm not sure) and now not everyone has HSDPA on their contract. If you ever see the H you do...if not, you don't.
So I live in an area that has 3G but I usually leave it off because half my time is spent in an area that has Edge only. Anyway, today I turned 3G on and instead of staying on edge or switching to 3G, in my network connection status I have an "H". I am running Cyan 4.0.2 and using the Hero community mix theme so I am not sure if in the Rom or theme, the icon for 3G was changed or not. I couldn't find any mention of it. Also, the more interesting part is, when I got home I ran a speed test via DSL reports and it's running at 3G speeds even though I am about 10-15 miles from where T-Mobile lists 3G coverage. Any ideas??
Just to be sure I turned off 3G and cleared my broswer cache. Went to DSL reports and ran the iPhone speed test...clocked in at 84kbps using Edge. Cleared cache again, enabled 3G...the "H" appeared again and ran the test, clocked in at 842 kbps and like I said this is in an area that according to T-Mobile's coverage map does not have 3G coverage.
hsdpa Im assuming.. you are using a dream right? i thought non of them came activated for the H to come out for hsdpa .. HSDPA is a faster and newer protocal for data transmission pretty much tmobiles 3.5G
I'm not sure, but I have the same thing. I rooted for the first time yesterday. Before I installed the Hero Community theme, I had the normal 3G icon. After installing the theme, I have the H icon... so I think it's just the theme. But I'm a noob so I'm not to be trusted.
Well you have one of those "good problems" lol. I didn't know tmobile had hsdpa yet but your lucky so nothing to worry about just enjoy the blazing fast speed your getting from it. And from wikipedia.com " Quad band GSM / GPRS / EDGE: GSM 850 / 900 / 1800 / 1900
Dual band UMTS / HSDPA / HSUPA: UMTS 1700 / 2100 (US/Europe) (7.2/2 Mbit/s)"
So yea it does support it.
Yup it's a Dream...it's a T-Mobile branded G1 that I am using on T-Mobile. Been rooted for awhile and on the 22nd I flashed Cyan's newest stable rom and the community mix theme. I had used the theme before, but never picked up "H", so that's why I wasn't sure if maybe the icon was changed or I am truly picking up a completely new data connection.
dudinatrix said:
I'm not sure, but I have the same thing. I rooted for the first time yesterday. Before I installed the Hero Community theme, I had the normal 3G icon. After installing the theme, I have the H icon... so I think it's just the theme. But I'm a noob so I'm not to be trusted.
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After reading this, I am thinking he just changed the icon and coincidentaly I am getting 3G where I used to not. I know when 3G first came to this area, it took them a few days to update the coverage map. I am guessing the coverage was expanded and the coverage map just isn't updated yet.
Just reread the change log in the theme thread and found this...
CHANGES in V.23
1.added updated Phone.apk to all versions
2.changed gloss version status bar to slick black, 3g icon to herolike (suggestion from Icead)
3.changed certain gloss version status bar notifications to match the theme
So no HSDPA on T-Mobile, but at least I finally have 3G at my house.
There is no HSPDA it's just an icon.
athflying said:
So no HSDPA on T-Mobile, but at least I finally have 3G at my house.
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*groan*
FFS, how many times does this have to be discussed and rediscussed? All T-Mobile 3G commercial deployments in the US (and likely UK as well) are HSXPA.
PLEASE STOP POSTING ABOUT HTC "H" ICONS AND [WRONGLY] SUPPOSING THAT THE LACK OF A "H" ICON MEANS NON-HSXPA UNLESS YOU HAVE RUN A SPEED TEST!
Seriously folks. The "H" icon FUD has got to stop.
Im coming from a couple HD2's and Vibrants and from my understanding, HSDPA is only 3.5G. Well, I only see HSDPA connection on my phone, and not a HSPA+ signal.
So am I even getting 4G?
You wont really see anything different to distinguish between the 2 besides running a speed test, Im on cm7 so I either see an "H" which is hsdpa or hspa+ but only a speed test over 3.5 will let me know for sure if I'm on the Hspa+ then theres the 3g icon which is usually umts but can be hspa, like I said just use the speed test ap thats the only way I ever know
also the highest Ive ever seen my 4G in los angeles is like 7.5mb on the normal it hovers around 4mb which never leaves me quite positive im on hspa+ because my wifes 3g Nexus S usually pulls down around 3.8
are you using T-Mobile or simple. I am having an issue as well but the plus sign is a huge difference.
i dont even know if you will ever see the HSDPA+! the way to check is go to settings>about phone>network> now here is where it gets tricky. where is says Mobile network type: it will tell you when you are on GPRS and EDGE! when my phone is on 3G is says UMTS, when it is in 4G, is says HSDPA. this is based on me doing speed tests while phone was on said network types. also i use a widget called "mobile signal widget". as you know the status bar never tells you the difference if you are on 3G or 4G, but the widget does! when the widget says 3G on it, when i flip to settings it says UMTS. when the widget says H on it, when i flip to the settings and it says HSDPA.
I know the DVP doesnt support HSPA+, however it *should* support HSPA I beleive?
When I activate the data function, I see the 3G indicator but never the 3G (H) indicator. Shouldn't I be getting the HSPA connection?
This is in the Seattle/Bothell area.
Thanks!
Do you know if the area you are in actually has 3g coverage?
My phone does display the H, but its only in a certain area of my house. Its where the 3g connection from the tower is (I think thats how it works). I also get 3G and E around the area. What I am saying is that you might be outside a 3g coverage area...
That is a certainly a possibility. I guess I'm trying to determine if:
1. It really is supported
2. Is there anythping special I have to do to make it work
It sounds like it is supported and you dont have to do anything but be in an HSPA coverage area...true?
Thanks!
BTW Anyone know where to find an HSPA coverage map?
My at&t dvp does use the hsdpa here in baton rouge. Something to remember is the H will be in "bursts", it never locks into H permanently.
And you are right, HSPA+ is not an option for the DVP.
HSPA reception is fixed in the upcoming FW update. With the new FW, you will be able to see 'H' most of the time if there is a coverage.
Awesome...thx for the input everyone.
notebookgrail said:
HSPA reception is fixed in the upcoming FW update. With the new FW, you will be able to see 'H' most of the time if there is a coverage.
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Strange. I normal see the H, then the cellular data connection actually used, and 3G, then idle. On old 210 FW.
On a T-Mo DVP you will NEVER see 'H'. The ability to force '3G' all the time instead of "confusing" customers with this 'H' thing is one of the few customizations WP7 MOs can make, and T-Mo makes it.
It was the same thing with the HD2 (except that we had access to the registry, custom ROMs etc. to change it) and it's the same thing with the HD7.
Rest assured, you are getting HSPA if you are in an area with 3G coverage.
notebookgrail said:
HSPA reception is fixed in the upcoming FW update. With the new FW, you will be able to see 'H' most of the time if there is a coverage.
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This is not a firmware issue, it's an MO customization issue.
tai4de2 said:
This is not a firmware issue, it's an MO customization issue.
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I have both the Beta device (.212 FW) and the non beta (.206 FW) device on TMO and the Beta device shows H and the other one doesn't.
If its not a FW issue, the only reason i can think of is Dell has scrapped all the MO customization with the new FW.
How did you get both of these devices to 212? Were they retail devices with .105 which you then updated? If not, then might you have some internal-only device with different settings than an end-user would ever see?
I have 212 (updated from 206, updated from 105) and never see the H but I am in an HSPA coverage area and get solid 3G speeds. Same as previous experience with HD2 (and HD7).
I just got one of the unlocked 212 DVP w/ ATT bands. I've yet to see 3G at all. its always H.
unlocked tmo here (212) and get the H