Database Users

Activesync 4 works better with BA than Universal < sorted

Activesync recognises better pda2k than jasjar. After reconfiguring windows, that is. There is still some work that needs to be done by MS so that plugging in a Universal on another computer or reconfigured one (like after removing activesync or restoring to a time be4 activesync was installed) with activesync freshly installed will lead to a flawless syncing of data from pda to windows pc, for now its a bit of a struggle with activesync complaining it cannot retrieve settings or the sort...
With Blue Angel there is no such a problem at all...
I wonder why they released Universal with all the bugs, so far I feel they are using us as beta experimenters with hardware, they should pay us, instead of selling it to us at such an exhorbitant price...
Was it the same for pda2k be4 they released the latest rom patch? (I am from old school, last time I use a pda was the psion up to psion 5), otherwise its been laptops all along until Blue Angel...

Sorted
make sure u are not connected to pc.
on the universal side in activesync choose menu -> options
delete windows pc
then connect to pc
u can now sync
(no worries about error messages, it works)
is this zen troubleshooting or what?

What "all bugs" are you referring to? I have been using the JJ since a month now and havent faced any problem except the initial AS problem which got srted out like in 5 minutes. After that, it has just been smooth sailing.
Maybe you can shed some more light.

light
Dude, read around the posts, and ask why are there customers who want to sell their jasjar after only a couple weeks if no less of use... and the activesync would have benefitted from a backup procedure... there are also ergonomics design issues... i am not going to waste my time listing all the issues (unless u pay me a good fee), i am not a paid troubleshooter...
Greetings....

Activesync has always been a weak link, although having used alternatives for handsets by LG, Motorola, Ericsson (not SE) and Nokia, it's the best of a bad bunch. As for "it's a beta, they should pay us". Well, to the best of my knowledge, I made a DECISION to purchase my universal. It was not thrust upon me. If it's been mis-sold, you may be able to get your money back.

Bearings
I am new at this thing, as I said I used Psion before the psion company stopped making them. I have been using laptops ever since. Whatever attracted me to the jasjar was the fact it was called a mini-laptop, so I said geez, instead of carrying a bag with a laptop in, I can come to meetings empty handed with a jasjar in my pocket.
I am more disappointed by the missing functionalities and features than the annoying quirks, I can get around the latter, but cannot do anything about the former...
But since u said this is the best we can get now out of a bad bunch, I have to resign myself to what I get, it will do somehow, but I will need to have a laptop handy lying around, just in case...
Cheers
Nabil

There are a lot of areas that need improving, but I think the benefits make it worthwhile:
Sufficiently portable that it goes EVERYWHERE.
Cheap (compared to a Tablet PC which is, for me anyway, its real competition)
Excellent handwriting recognition.
Fast. Ignore benchmarks, I'm talking real use: Loading Word, Excel or pretty much anything and using it day to day.
I'm undecided what to do with my Siemens Simpad now. Very nice Windows CE.Net 4.1 device (TFT SVGA touchscreen). For some of my work, it's still better, hugely portable compared to a "real" laptop, but I found myself making decisions as to whether it was worth taking with me whenever I moved from my desk. Still maybe the best "around the house" internet device + remote desktop client, but the MDA Pro goes EVERYWHERE.

storage
Still I think they could have made an effort with more storage and memory, plus whats the point of having a powerpoint viewer if u cannot project it out, i know there is something in powertoys that does that through activesync, but the resolution is atrocious... I wrote to them (HTC) and they said they take seriously what I had to say

Athena as a UMPC

Hey all,
A while ago I've started my hunt for a UMPC. My demands were not simple:
1. Relatively cheap - up to 700$
2. 3.5G connectivity
3. TV-OUT port
4. ~7" screen size
5. Good battery life
6. Keyboard of some kind
7. GPS
I've looked around and couldn't find anything that answered those demands. The biggest issue with UMPCs I've looked at is poor battery life. After a while, I started to think about the Athena as a UMPC alternative. It answers almost all of my demands except the smaller screen and of-course being a WM device its not a fully capable PC. I wanted to ask you Athena owners, if you think that the Athena could be the device for me. Do you feel the need for a more capable OS? Do you wish to replace it with a bigger UMPC? Do some of you have a UMPC and the Athena and feel they complete each other?
Thanks a lot....

I have owned the Athena for almost a year now. I also own the Sony VAIO U70 which is one of their earlier UMPC for Japan Only. (See Info at: )
http://www.mobiletechreview.com/notebooks/sony_vaio_U50.htm
The VAIO is a great little device that was ahead of its time in my view, however, given the choice, I carry the Athena when I travel. The main reasons, you have already named, GPS, a keyboard of sorts and HSDPA connectivity. I can travel for a week or so without missing any functionality on keeping up with e-mails, opening nearly any attachment, connecting to hotel WiFi, surfing the web, and phone functions as well. Carrying only one light weight charger is also a big plus for me.
The UMPC came with everything included, the docking station, a folding keyboard, etc... but this one did not offer data connectivity other than WiFi which is still typical on most newer UMPC's. The HTC Shift makes a step in the right direction, however it loses the ability to serve as a mobile phone, it's size is considerably larger than you'd want as a phone anyway, and it lacks GPS.
In my view, carrying a phone and a UMPC along with chargers and accessories doesn't make as much sense and just carrying the Athena. I do carry the LG Style-I for use as a phone handset since the Athena is a speakerphone only unless you want to get wired. You need a Bluetooth (something) with the Athena.

Check out the Asus EEE Pc!
I am completly satisfied with my athena, and I can do almost anything that I can do on a regular computer. Also with TomTom installed I think I have the perfect GPS solution, I am not sure that there is really an competitor for the PC that can even come close to TomTom.
But then again, if you need to run Windows XP or another more complete OS then check out the EEE pc instead. http://eeepc.asus.com/global/
It has an 7" screen and a full keybord, also you can always use an USB GPS.

As I posted on the other similar thread, I was in the market for a new phone and laptop, and after getting the Athena I'm not looking for a laptop anymore.

And don't forget that you can still use remote desktop or equivalent software to use any XP or Vista program with Athena.
Battary life should feature prominently in your requirement. No good if you get an UMPC that meets all the requirement but forcing you to carry five bulky spare battery each lasting just 1.5 hours.
Athena is the most perfect all in one mobile device which does it all at this point, IMHO.
If you plan to use it notebook style, get a X7510 (with better keyboard but few hardware keys). If you plan to use it tablet style, get a X7500/X7501 (with better hardware keys).
One aspect of evaluation that you might not have thought about very carefully is portability. 7 inch is no longer possible to be carried around 24/7; whereas 5 inch screen is still very portable. 5 inch screen, together with the realVGA software, will let you see a lot. I don't think you need to see anymore than that as a mobile device.
Another consideration should be what software are there for a mobile device. This may trigger many disagreement, but I'll still say it. XP and Vista software are not appropriate for mobile device IMHO. You need touchscreen, you need it designed for fingers. You can't get the same breath of software on XP and Vista for mobile device. No Tom Tom, No iGO, no top notch plugins that displays all schedule/calendar on the desktop like pocket informant does, no WIMP, not much choice is expense recording software, no good calculators, no good photo dialing programs, etc etc. If you're going to use word, spreadsheet and power point, use SoftMaker Office. It matches the desktop microsoft office in functinos and features. If you're going to use it for internet browsing, go for Opera Mobile or Netfront to give very satisfactory speed. Often people make the mistake of thinking that XP or Vista gives you more software choice. This is true yet untrue. It has better choice in the wrong area. In the area that matters on the move, it has very little or no choice.

Using it as my UMPC
I had the same questions as you. I started looking for a UMPC over a year ago, and was tempted by the OQO 2. I actually ordered it and used it for a weekend. It was returned for a couple of reasons: 1) screen was too small to really be useable; 2) I already have a Blackberry, and did not want to thumb type.
I then considered the Fuji A810 UMPC. I never ordered it because of the passive touch screen. I figured if I was going to pay $1,000+ I wanted and active screen, or really good palm rejection. Since I like to ink, really, only the OQO was a good choice -screen wise. Sometimes the inking on the Advantage is tricky, but I am learning how to avoid vectoring issues. The same issue would have happened on any other UMPC (not the OQO, however).
I never considered the Asus, or any machine running Linux. I have no clue what that OS means, so it was a no go from the start.
I then heard that CompUSA had the Advantage for $550.00 and went to play with it in the store. Put in my BB Sim card, and bingo, I was off and running. I went back the next day and bought one.
I am using the Advantage as my UMPC. I have had it for about 2 months, and think it was a good buy and good decision. To make it more "UMPC like," I have added programs that replicate my Tablet PC pretty well. I am evaluating EverNote for its inking ability (although I have OneNote Mobile also installed, it does not yet (ever?) support inking. I also have SoftMaker Office 2006 (soon to be 2008 and will allow printing via BT).
I also added a data only SIM card ($35.00/mo). When I have longer emails to which I have to respond, the Advantage is perfect. I have gotten pretty quick with the keyboard.
I use MobSync to sync client folders with Word and Excel files. I also use MobSync to transfer Notes from EverNote.
If I do not have my Tablet with me, I have the Advantage. I also always carry the BB, since I do not want to use the Advantage as a phone.
Overall, I think the Advantage is a perfect UMPC solution for me. It took some program purchases to make it what I wanted, but the setup is just what I was hoping for. I love the screen, love the keyboard, love the storage, like the programs I purchased. I can't really think of a downside to using this as my UMPC. The overall cost, with the CompUSA reduction, is still less than what I would have paid for a XP Tablet UMPC.

good thread
my athena is due to arrive tomorrow.
reading this thread only guarantees that i've made a right choice in getting one.
ciao!

I use mine as UMPC connected via Remote Desktop or LOGMEIN.COM to My home/office PC.
No needs for more licences for SW, I use remotely the software AND THE COMPUTING POWER I have! And all data ara safely stored too

Thank you all, my x7500 has arrived today.

Why Shift if you already have an Athena?

I thought I would like to open a new thread for Athena and Shift comparsion. So the information would be more organized. For those who own both Shift and Athena, please your feedback highly appreciated. Anything at all, you regret your shift, or what you don't like about shift? or you love your shift until you want to let your Athena go?
@Wu5262 I thought you mention that you will never consider the Shift?
Thank you in Advance
I would mention what I like about Athena:
I'm using my Athena pretty much 12x7. All my data is pretty much synchronized to my laptop. I could get an instant on with Athena which I appreciate a lot. I could open many word documents with windows mobile 6 with high responsiveness. Snappiness is great when you need to retrieve any information quickly from time to time. I always keep my Athena in my pocket(Using Hugo Boss Dress Pant fit nicely) where ever I go even to Universal Studio until my Athena Dented from the rides(Duh!). It's got Dictionary for Business, Medical, and English, which I find to be very helpful for day to day basis. I have PocketBreeze to organize all my tasks and calendar at the very front of today's screen. That's the first thing in the morning that i would look at when I just turn on my Athena to organize the rest of my day. A Kick Ass Pocket Informant. I also have all my important documents and data on the laptop being stored in the Athena microdrives. Excellent battery life with USB Based car charger which is a big plus convenience. Opera lets me browse through many websites with a breeze. A big high quality 5 inch screen that doesn't strain my eyes. I own Thinkpad T60 and IMO the screen in Athena is better. I could still get fatigue with Thinkpad's screen, not sure why. All I need out of Athena is an even bigger, faster storage, and faster processor system. Speed is my upmost number one priority. My boss often calls me for an information and therefore I need to provide him the soonest or ELSE.
Minor Shortcomings: Slow Charging
Shift is tempting, but I'm afraid I may regret my purchase. I don't have the luxury to try out this baby before buying.

great post, i was thinking the same. at first there was the attraction to the shift, but now, i could get the blu ray burner vaio from comet for a shift. and keep my athena...
says it all really
Rory

PPC may do 80% of daily application, it's necessary to do some bank, AUTOCAD, and some others application under winxp when you are outside, I think winxp is enough, no need Vista.

only reason to use shift is for the vista apps that cant be found on wm.

It kind of funny you started this thread tonight - I just happened to take out my HTC x7501 tonight and have both of them out on my desk at atm. I have been torn ever since I have gotten my shift. I have been trying to use the shift only and see if it will fit all my needs. For my needs and think yours from reading your post you want to compare the WM6 side. The Vista side of the shift was supposed to be more of bonus for me to make it even more usefull. I had mistakenly thought shift's WM side would be as powerful as the x7501 right out of the box. I was very much mistaken. Till a cooked rom comes out for the shift it has many short coming compared to the x7501 on the WM side. No GPS, limited storage space and no camera functions. No external buttons that work in slate mode. So currently there is no comparsion needed. If I was compare the devices assuming a cooked rom will give us these things here is my take.
I see two major pros for the shift over the advantage.
The biggest pro for the shift is the screen. Both the size and the color/brightness of the shift's screen is a big plus. The shift's screen is hands down nicer screen. The useable shift screen size on the WM side is sligthly bigger than the entire x7501 device. The bigger sceen makes using your finger to navigate even better. It is also a boon for reading emails or ebooks. The second is the keyboard. The keyboard on the shift is way better than the x7501. It is bigger and has great feedback. It is a joy to type out an email mesage on the WM6 side of the shift compared to the x7501.
The biggest pros for the x7501 over the shift is it size ???
I know I just said the same thing about shift. But when you carry the x7501 around it is small enough to put in coat or jacket pocket and it form factor makes it look likea small book. Compare that to the "man bag" the shift is carried around in. The shift is much bigger and heaver to drag around. The shift dose not fit into any pockets of any jacket I own, and even if it did it is to heavy would weight down on that side of your jacket. The other pro of the x7501 over shift is its storage choices having the bigger internal memory, a mini sd card, and a hardrive. That is just sweet! Even after the shift rom is cooked it never be able to compete with x7501 in this area. I worry that I will always be wanting in this area with my shift.
You know I could go round and round with pros and cons both devices are nice, sexy looking and have features that other does not have. I don't know if I will ever be 100% happy with either now that I have both. I think I will have to hold on to both and visit this again after a cooked rom comes out for the shift. Till then I will probably keep switching back and forth and wishing that I took other device with me instead after a while.
I don't If I helped answer question but I sure have made myself confused now

stormforger said:
It kind of funny you started this thread tonight - I just happened to take out my HTC x7501 tonight and have both of them out on my desk at atm. I have been torn ever since I have gotten my shift. I have been trying to use the shift only and see if it will fit all my needs. For my needs and think yours from reading ....
I don't If I helped answer question but I sure have made myself confused now
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
shift should i think be bought for the reason of u wanting a umpc. the wm side is not so good right now. shift is a nice device but has a bit too many shortcomings out of the box. it will be nice once modded. remind me a bit of the iphone

Oh one other thing I like better about the shift is that it's battery recharges much faster than the x7501. I know it not a big deal but I like not having to wait long for anything

stormforger said:
Oh one other thing I like better about the shift is that it's battery recharges much faster than the x7501. I know it not a big deal but I like not having to wait long for anything
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hehe yea thats a big plus.

stormforger said:
Oh one other thing I like better about the shift is that it's battery recharges much faster than the x7501. I know it not a big deal but I like not having to wait long for anything
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes you are very right, the first time I bought my Athena, I was shocked on how slow the battery charging especially out of a USB port. Not sure if Advantage 7510 would improve considerably.

i guess i bought the shift because i realize i need vista to complete some of my work, there are just quite a few software which doesn't run under ppc, so i need an UMPC, another reason that i bought shift is because this forum, i know i will have lots of fun treaking the device and there will be lots of support here as well.
Shift is not for everyone, but certainly i am happy about it.

wu5262 said:
i guess i bought the shift because i realize i need vista to complete some of my work, there are just quite a few software which doesn't run under ppc, so i need an UMPC, another reason that i bought shift is because this forum, i know i will have lots of fun treaking the device and there will be lots of support here as well.
Shift is not for everyone, but certainly i am happy about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yep. the community is always the key. u have the people from the athena forums here now working on the shift and u also have pof here. the shift will be a nice device once we are done with it.

HTC Shift Vs HTC Athena
the athena is a very good device. I bought the Shift mainly just for fun. In fact u can do most things on the athena. The curve of owning a HTC Shift goes like this. During the first few hours it was really fun. I was quite amazed with the quality and the keyboard. After playing for awhile then i realize the Winmo is far inferior to Athena. i cannot install all my applications into it as the internal memory is so small. Not only that it cannot read the SD card. I read somewhere in this forum that there is no way to connect to the sd card as there are no wires attaching to it. After that I left it at home. Without bothering to play with it. After a week I started reading this forum again and some smart guy suggested to remove the finger recoginition security. I did it and wow, the speed is now much faster and acceptable. I started removing all those applications I don't need such as Origami and so on. I tweaked around with the battery settings as well. Now I am beginning to like it again as I have longer battery life and a faster machine. One thing is that I don't understand is why HTC only puts 64mb ram into this. Are they thinking of launching a HTC Shift 2 with 128mb ram. And a longer battery life. I think this is a way they milk the consumers for more money..

Sometimes i really wonder what users in this forum are expecting from the Shift: Shift is a WindowsVista-UMPC in first place - the limited WindowsMobile-Part SnapVUE is just a nice Add-on for Instand-On (and powersaving) Mail, Calendar and Contact access. Not more, not less. That's why even the Hardware of the WM-Part is that limited (no Storage access) - hey, in fact, the WM-Side is not much more than the 3G Modem for Vista.
I bougt it because i wanted to have a small Vista-PC - otherwhise, i would have kept my HTC Universal. Yeah, i opended the WM-Side to install Opera and GPRSmonitor (too keep track of my 3G-Usage - 5 gigabyte contract...). But i don't expect more from SnapVue - and it does what's advertised, pretty well.

skin57 said:
Sometimes i really wonder what users in this forum are expecting from the Shift: Shift is a WindowsVista-UMPC in first place - the limited WindowsMobile-Part SnapVUE is just a nice Add-on for Instand-On (and powersaving) Mail, Calendar and Contact access. Not more, not less. That's why even the Hardware of the WM-Part is that limited (no Storage access) - hey, in fact, the WM-Side is not much more than the 3G Modem for Vista.
I bougt it because i wanted to have a small Vista-PC - otherwhise, i would have kept my HTC Universal. Yeah, i opended the WM-Side to install Opera and GPRSmonitor (too keep track of my 3G-Usage - 5 gigabyte contract...). But i don't expect more from SnapVue - and it does what's advertised, pretty well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you have your opinion and we have ours ... we know that the shift is able to do more than by default .. so we will try to make it the best possible.
the shift is not the fastest UMPC and if you bought it just to have an umpc .. I think that you got it wrong. The shift is first a double OS and it's important for US... because it's like having 2 devices in one ! A PDA/PPC that you can use 24h/24 and a computer that you can use WHEN YOU WANT.
I personnaly want the shift to replace my laptop, my desktop, and my phone (HTC TOUCH) .. it's my opinion and nobody will be able to change my mind about it.
If you think that for you it's a little computer and that you are happy with it .. that's cool, but we may want more for a device that can do more
that's all

Yeah i have an athena a phone viewty and a ASUS eee so this could replace all 3 or maybe just the eee and athena its a convergence device it does what it says on the tin but is only average at each point but good enougth i think

skin57 said:
Sometimes i really wonder what users in this forum are expecting from the Shift: Shift is a WindowsVista-UMPC in first place - the limited WindowsMobile-Part SnapVUE is just a nice Add-on for Instand-On (and powersaving) Mail, Calendar and Contact access. Not more, not less. That's why even the Hardware of the WM-Part is that limited (no Storage access) - hey, in fact, the WM-Side is not much more than the 3G Modem for Vista.
I bougt it because i wanted to have a small Vista-PC - otherwhise, i would have kept my HTC Universal. Yeah, i opended the WM-Side to install Opera and GPRSmonitor (too keep track of my 3G-Usage - 5 gigabyte contract...). But i don't expect more from SnapVue - and it does what's advertised, pretty well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well for me, I was expecing Shift to be a superb WM Phone with Vista as a bonus. WM with a nice huge screen and a nice keyboard to work on. I already own Thinkpad T60 with 3GB RAM, 4GB Readyboost, fast little machine.
I'm not expecting the Vista in Shift to replace my laptop knowing that it's only got 20GB free storage to work on and 1GB RAM(For VISTA just INSANE).
Sure it would be nice to replace Athena and Thinkpad Laptop with Shift. But I will hold my breath on that.

koala996 said:
you have your opinion and we have ours ... we know that the shift is able to do more than by default .. so we will try to make it the best possible.
the shift is not the fastest UMPC and if you bought it just to have an umpc .. I think that you got it wrong. The shift is first a double OS and it's important for US... because it's like having 2 devices in one ! A PDA/PPC that you can use 24h/24 and a computer that you can use WHEN YOU WANT.
I personnaly want the shift to replace my laptop, my desktop, and my phone (HTC TOUCH) .. it's my opinion and nobody will be able to change my mind about it.
If you think that for you it's a little computer and that you are happy with it .. that's cool, but we may want more for a device that can do more
that's all
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey, i really LOVE the WM Part of the Shift - it's great to have instant-on-access to mail, calendar, contacts - and, after opening SnapVue, to OperaMobile (also as an instant on alternative... especially when Vista is doing updates etc). But again, it remains a UMPC in first place (and what it makes better than ANY UMPC on the market so far is the Keyboard, not to forget embedded 3G). That's what the hardware is designed to be - a UMPC with some added InstantOn-Functions. And that's the reason why the HARDWARE of WM on the shift is that limited: Low RAM, low FLASH, no Hardware-Keys in Slate-Mode, no Access to the HardDisk, no Access to the SD Card, no Access to WLAN, no access to Touchpad, no Access to the Fingerprint reader, no Access to the WebCam, even no Access to the Microphone (as far as i know - i analyzed the board very well, but it's hard to track wires on a multilayer board ). Yeah, these limitations are Hardware-Limitations, not changeable by a cooked ROM (and i really loved cocked roms for my HTC Universal). Yeah, i analyzed the hardware as good as possible. Yeah, it's possible to make this all available to the WM6 part of the shift - but ONLY (!!!!!!) with a running Vista and an application running on both ends that pass through these functions (and hey, this wouldn't make much sense, eh??).
I know, this is a WM community, so the focus HAS TO BE on WM. But again, the Shift was never designed to be an WM device in first place - and HTC markets it as an UMPC, not as an "Hyper-PDA".
By the way, ONE limitation MIGHT be removeable with WM 6.1: The screen resolution in WM.... 6.1 is the first version that supports 800x480 Screens (like on the SE Experia). So, indeed, there is some room left for improvements through cooked roms.

skin57 said:
Hey, i really LOVE the WM Part of the Shift - it's great to have instant-on-access to mail, calendar, contacts - and, after opening SnapVue, to OperaMobile (also as an instant on alternative... especially when Vista is doing updates etc). But again, it remains a UMPC in first place (and what it makes better than ANY UMPC on the market so far is the Keyboard, not to forget embedded 3G). That's what the hardware is designed to be - a UMPC with some added InstantOn-Functions. And that's the reason why the HARDWARE of WM on the shift is that limited: Low RAM, low FLASH, no Hardware-Keys in Slate-Mode, no Access to the HardDisk, no Access to the SD Card, no Access to WLAN, no access to Touchpad, no Access to the Fingerprint reader, no Access to the WebCam, even no Access to the Microphone (as far as i know - i analyzed the board very well, but it's hard to track wires on a multilayer board ). Yeah, these limitations are Hardware-Limitations, not changeable by a cooked ROM (and i really loved cocked roms for my HTC Universal). Yeah, i analyzed the hardware as good as possible. Yeah, it's possible to make this all available to the WM6 part of the shift - but ONLY (!!!!!!) with a running Vista and an application running on both ends that pass through these functions (and hey, this wouldn't make much sense, eh??).
I know, this is a WM community, so the focus HAS TO BE on WM. But again, the Shift was never designed to be an WM device in first place - and HTC markets it as an UMPC, not as an "Hyper-PDA".
By the way, ONE limitation MIGHT be removeable with WM 6.1: The screen resolution in WM.... 6.1 is the first version that supports 800x480 Screens (like on the SE Experia). So, indeed, there is some room left for improvements through cooked roms.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it's not because we are a WM community that we want WM to be the best.. we whant the SHIFT to be the best... and we are pretty sure that we will be able to make these things running in WM.
you think that we need an application to make everything working from WM side... but why are you sure that it's not the opposite? That an application running in WM side is "silently" sharing the hardware to Vista. .. and that it is disabled in WM side?
The chipset with 3G is from WM side... and the WM side share the 3G to VISTA.. so it could be the same for BT,Wifi, SD, ....

koala996 said:
it's not because we are a WM community that we want WM to be the best.. we whant the SHIFT to be the best... and we are pretty sure that we will be able to make these things running in WM.
you think that we need an application to make everything working from WM side... but why are you sure that it's not the opposite? That an application running in WM side is "silently" sharing the hardware to Vista. .. and that it is disabled in WM side?
The chipset with 3G is from WM side... and the WM side share the 3G to VISTA.. so it could be the same for BT,Wifi, SD, ....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I could argue with obvious hardware design (the UMPC side is pretty easy to analyze, have a look at the PCI and USB busses). I could argue with "Traced wires on the board" (something that is not really reliable on a multilayer board).
But you can easily find out on your own: Reset SnapVue and see which functions are gone in VISTA while WM restarts. You'll find out: 3G radio (of course, as this is provided by WM - by the way: Through internet connection sharing) - and propably the Sound (but not because Sound is implemented through WM - have not found the reason so far). Bluetooth? Available. WiFi? Available. SD? Available. HDD?? Available.

skin57 said:
I could argue with obvious hardware design (the UMPC side is pretty easy to analyze, have a look at the PCI and USB busses). I could argue with "Traced wires on the board" (something that is not really reliable on a multilayer board).
But you can easily find out on your own: Reset SnapVue and see which functions are gone in VISTA while WM restarts. You'll find out: 3G radio (of course, as this is provided by WM - by the way: Through internet connection sharing) - and propably the Sound (but not because Sound is implemented through WM - have not found the reason so far). Bluetooth? Available. WiFi? Available. SD? Available. HDD?? Available.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't have the Shift yet.. so I can't test it myself.. but I have never heard about it before (maybe because I have never heard about someone rebooting WM when Vista was launched).
It will be harder .. yes .. but we will try our best to make it work in both sides !

Seeking advice of whether or not to buy a Shift

I am interested in a new latop and have been doing quite a lot of research on the Shift. Voice call functionality is probably the only thing holding me back from making a definite decision right now. I have been purusing about and have come across a few questions as post dates seem intermintent on whether or not a few of the things I am looking for will come true. So if members could give me a point of view on to wait or not, or even to look at another device.
1.) I see that voice call functionality is not there, and am wondering if this is a "yet" or "a maybe" or a "don't get your hopes up".
2.) I have been a frequent user of cooked roms from HTC and was wondering if there is going to be anywhere near the support for the Shift as there is for other devices such as the Tytn II since I am all about making a great device even better.
3.) Is there any reasons why any of you can personally think of why I should seek another UMPC device or small laptop when compared to the Shift. I am going to be using it mostly for travel, media functions (mp3/movies), and of course web browsing/downloading. Things I am worried about... battery life, and never being able to make phone calls, and not having a touch screen. Owning a Tilt I am spoiled to that aspect
4.) Is the range of the bluetooth going to be greater than 33'? I know some types of bluetooth headsets can go much further distances, but am unsure if that is for media only or if that will be an option for voice call for the Shift as well.
5.) I currently have a Tilt running many programs such a mobile shell, poket weather, AT&T Navigator, and things along those lines. What is the likely-hood that I will be able to use such programs on the unlocked side of WM for the Shift. Or is that really going to depend a lot on the software programs themselves?
I have more questions, but have yet to search for the answers before posting, so I will be back soon.
Thank you for all your help and input in advance!
SKy

skyfox99 said:
I am interested in a new latop and have been doing quite a lot of research on the Shift. Voice call functionality is probably the only thing holding me back from making a definite decision right now. I have been purusing about and have come across a few questions as post dates seem intermintent on whether or not a few of the things I am looking for will come true. So if members could give me a point of view on to wait or not, or even to look at another device.
1.) I see that voice call functionality is not there, and am wondering if this is a "yet" or "a maybe" or a "don't get your hopes up".
2.) I have been a frequent user of cooked roms from HTC and was wondering if there is going to be anywhere near the support for the Shift as there is for other devices such as the Tytn II since I am all about making a great device even better.
3.) Is there any reasons why any of you can personally think of why I should seek another UMPC device or small laptop when compared to the Shift. I am going to be using it mostly for travel, media functions (mp3/movies), and of course web browsing/downloading. Things I am worried about... battery life, and never being able to make phone calls, and not having a touch screen. Owning a Tilt I am spoiled to that aspect
4.) Is the range of the bluetooth going to be greater than 33'? I know some types of bluetooth headsets can go much further distances, but am unsure if that is for media only or if that will be an option for voice call for the Shift as well.
5.) I currently have a Tilt running many programs such a mobile shell, poket weather, AT&T Navigator, and things along those lines. What is the likely-hood that I will be able to use such programs on the unlocked side of WM for the Shift. Or is that really going to depend a lot on the software programs themselves?
I have more questions, but have yet to search for the answers before posting, so I will be back soon.
Thank you for all your help and input in advance!
SKy
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. Dont get you hopes up, in fact i dont think we ever get all these functions that some say they are working on. why bother? what do you relly want that big acphone fore?
2. see 1.
3. it is a machine with limited power great for surfing bad for alot else
4. have only used a bluetooth mouse works great, havnt used it far from away lol
5. the stoage is wery limired on the shift, no room for alot of apps

skyfox99 said:
1.) I see that voice call functionality is not there, and am wondering if this is a "yet" or "a maybe" or a "don't get your hopes up".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is between "maybe" and "don't get your hopes up": requires security unlocking the device and changing some NV items in radio, but I'm not sure if the microphone is connected on the SnapVUE side. Bluetooth is definitely not connected, so it won't be possible to call through a headset.
skyfox99 said:
2.) I have been a frequent user of cooked roms from HTC and was wondering if there is going to be anywhere near the support for the Shift as there is for other devices such as the Tytn II since I am all about making a great device even better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ROM cooking is imminent, some of us are already using cooked ROMs.

I use mine for surfing (3G is great), documents, email and the odd movie. It won't cope with much else, which is fine because that's all I want it for. And why would you want voice calling on this thing? Bizarre, but each to their own.
The big thing is it is tiny...and well connected...a bit like Kate Moss

I appreciate the feedback. I was hoping for voice call via 1.2 i suppose for 300' range so i could just walk around with a headset on with the Shift at my desk at work. I am guessing i was expecting a little too much. I really am just looking for a touchscreen laptop that isn't too big and isn't too expensive. Any ideas for a computer along those lines?

If you at work, then you should have internet connection. Some telecom operators offer IP telephony. I am using this on Shift with even better functionality than mobile phone and with BT headset. It is possible to use also Skype for example. You can use the functionality even in move in wifi networks or mobile networks with flat rate package. Of course, 3G networks preferred.

shift
personally id buy which is what im going to do, but since it has windows mobile and a sd slot, it wouldnt be hard for some one copy software from another phone and since it has nothing to do with screen capabilities of processor speed im sure it woul be compatibal from almost any device because it is just a drive for hardware, bluetooth is not so much a hardware issue more sofware which once sd slot made usable might be ale to achive easyer when size is no matter, to addd extra options to handler or driver for blue tooth whichever.. besides if u like videos im sure the screen is somewhat high def being that its 16 million colors (not sure dont have it yet) and most computer screens are like 232k colors it might be like 720p or something not sure i dont know how many colors they can display and whatever but it'll make videos amazing compared to 64k colors of other phones, and some people have developed full xp drivers for it so might get lucky and be abl to get the ultamit device for embedded programing being you coul have embedded on a device which you could make program then test with or without touch screen very fastly and id only take a minute to switch back to fix errors...

Here in the states VOIP on a mobile phone really isn't there just yet, our networks are too slow on 3g I think. Although I don't really know much about it. Is skype VOIP to VOIP only, or can you call any phone number? I don't really want too much of a hassle having to hack this thing to get it to do what I want. I am actually getting tired of doing all that for now after flashing rom after rom to my tilt to get it to work the way I want. As is now I am unable to connect to my exchange server at work and am unsure as to what the problem is and really just want something to work ideally out of the box, but I know that won't happen.

dinscurge said:
personally id buy which is what im going to do, but since it has windows mobile and a sd slot, it wouldnt be hard for some one copy software from another phone and since it has nothing to do with screen capabilities of processor speed im sure it woul be compatibal from almost any device because it is just a drive for hardware, bluetooth is not so much a hardware issue more sofware which once sd slot made usable might be ale to achive easyer when size is no matter, to addd extra options to handler or driver for blue tooth whichever.. besides if u like videos im sure the screen is somewhat high def being that its 16 million colors (not sure dont have it yet) and most computer screens are like 232k colors it might be like 720p or something not sure i dont know how many colors they can display and whatever but it'll make videos amazing compared to 64k colors of other phones, and some people have developed full xp drivers for it so might get lucky and be abl to get the ultamit device for embedded programing being you coul have embedded on a device which you could make program then test with or without touch screen very fastly and id only take a minute to switch back to fix errors...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's amazing - one sentence....

Personally I would strongly advise you against buying this device. FOr the price you could get a small convertible tablet PC that would do far, far, far more than the Shift ever will. I bought a Fujitsu t2010 for $1100 US. I then spent $200 at NewEgg buying stuff to upgrade and i now have, for the same price as a shift ($1300):
12.1" active digitizer, no comparison to a passive digitizer (touchscreen) for taking notes, drawing, or anything else. active is 100x better
4GB RAm
250gb SATA HDD
1.2ghz ULV Dual Core cpu
WiFi/BT
5 HOUR BATTERY LIFE RUNNING VISTA WITH STANDARD BATTERY
TOTAL WEIGHT 3lbs
3g pc card modem- lets me use 3G data AND make phone calls AND send sms, slips into PC card slot and has retractable antenna
BT headset
Nice screen protector
nice webcam
Soooo, for what I spent on my Fuji I could have a little shift that has a crappier screen, shorter battery life, crippled hardware, etc. Why would anyone do that? Don't like a 12.1"? No problem, get a Fujitsu U810 (5" screen, $800), or a Fujitsu p1620 ($9", about $100 more thanthe shift). Don't like the Fuji's? OK, google convertible tablet and you'll get a ton of various little machines that can outperform the shift with a similar form-factor.
I know that there are some people who love thier Shift, and i am not trying to bash them. I just think that the Shift is an INCREDIBLY niche product and that most users would be much happier with a convertible tablet that is the same price, better battery ,processor,screen,etc. Some of the sacrifices we make in mobile devices is for the phone functionality, and if shift can't (and most likely won't ever) do that, why make those sacrifices? Especially when adding a cheap peice of hardware to a much more powerful platform (tablet pc) gives you everything you need?

am sorry but i have to said
no i have many proplem then i sale it
and buy sony ux37gn its more powerfull than the shift
and with no proplem " made in japan "
the only proplem is the price

Buy one. They are fantastic!

scopy60 said:
buy sony ux37gn
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They have much smaller display, are bulky and have no Windows Mobile (ARM) subsystem.

devictoria said:
They have much smaller display, are bulky and have no Windows Mobile (ARM) subsystem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't think they even have built in 3G do they?

I Like Shift!
FWIW, I really like my Shift....
Didn't buy it to be a computing powerhouse, but a take with me everywhere device.
I like the flexibility to use it as a slate (tablet), a laptop, or a slider.
Overall, works great...

mlalahoi said:
Personally I would strongly advise you against buying this device.
Soooo, for what I spent on my Fuji I could have a little shift that has a crappier screen, shorter battery life, crippled hardware, etc. Why would anyone do that? Don't like a 12.1"? No problem, get a Fujitsu U810 (5" screen, $800), or a Fujitsu p1620 ($9", about $100 more thanthe shift). Don't like the Fuji's? OK, google convertible tablet and you'll get a ton of various little machines that can outperform the shift with a similar form-factor.
I you need?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, but cannot buy Fujitsu P1620 in Holland for some reason. Not happy with my Shift at all!
Huib

ArchiMark said:
FWIW, I really like my Shift....
Didn't buy it to be a computing powerhouse, but a take with me everywhere device.
I like the flexibility to use it as a slate (tablet), a laptop, or a slider.
Overall, works great...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Me too - it seems those that aren't happy really should have asked what they really wanted first up. I don't find performance an issue - battery life is OK for surfing etc - it's not an 8 hour music/video player though, and not meant to be. That's what iPod's etc are for. In my case, what my HX4700 is for. To me the WM6 with keyboard and 3G is extremely valuable - I am involved in music when not working and I can keep an eye on those related emails during the day (cannot log into mail from work), respond where necessary etc. No boot ups. If something needs more, or a big file attached, then I can boot to Vista.
Office 2003 is the way to go tho. 2007 is like Vista - bulky and slow.
I suspect the sales pitch of the Shift may have led people to believe it was going to be something other than what it is. I did the homework first, so knew what I was getting, especially around performance. Anyways, not sure whether HTC are actually going to sell many of these given the late arrival, seemingly little support (drivers, XP etc) and some polarised view points on it.

HTC SHIFT Rocks ....
for those un-happy with shift i would say u guys never really understood the essence of this device ... according to me this device is closest to the ideal device for a mobile person that HTC could make keeping in view today's technology and price limitations ...
I travel a lot very frequently and often all of a sudden need to spend nights over at a new place etc... but with shift along i am relieved of the hastles i used to face earlier ... its size is just ideal for it to be carried around everywhere and its functunality is well thought off ... and all the more important is that after liberation it gives u the power of two devices in one! A quick use WM side and a full fleged windows vista to substitute ur laptop for "work related" needs.
I normally use the WM interface when i am really mobile or dont need to access too much stuff.. or just need to use skype to chat with a supplier, etc ... but when i am either back in my car or in the hotel room or when i have some spare time or when i need to access bank website (our bank websites dont open in WM due to security concerns) ... I use the VISTA side ...
There are some annoyances off and on like - i cant multitask as well i can on my PC etc .. but those were known to me before i shelled out cash for this device.. the keyboard is smalll but what better u think HTC could have stuffed in such a device ...??? It's usable and its pretty neat too .. i have used it for typing long letters and reports with absolutely no problem ... no doubt u have type with a finger but its comfy once u get the hang of it! Also i can tell u with my practical experience that someone who's gonna shift after using a very powerful computer will feel it to be a bit slow but we have to understand these limitations to bring the best out of this device! So buy a HTC Shift , but plz be a bit just a bit patient while using it and it will be ur friend in need.
Keeping my kind of a multitasked life style in view (a medical doctor, a business man, a GPS System's Consultant, etc) - i would suggest u all to buy a Case Logic HDC-2 case ... it fits the shift well in it's original cover, fits in its charger, usb hub, a portable laser mouse, my stationary kit, my digital camera, a portable DVD writer, my mobile travel charger, candys to give me instant energy if reqd. and small nit bits like my 3 types of visiting cards, etc.). I normally carry the bag around with me in my car or on travel. Let the bag primarity lie in the car/hotel room as the case maybe and take only the shift in its leather case along while going for a meeting or to meet a client etc. and use the other bag contents as per need. But let me tell u that carrying this small kit has helped me out in so many conditions that i just cant thank HTC for making such a good device and to Case Logic for unkowingly creating such a good case to carry my stuff. (Case Logic HDC-2 is actually a HDD carrying case... but it fits the shift and it's accessories just right!) (see the pics)
For me carrying the shift in a harddisk carrying case gives me all the more comfort because i feel if a case is designed to protect a HDD, it can protect my Shift well!
And another thing: this bag fits perfectly and tightly in the space between any car's front seats ... so it stays there intact inspite of any bumps or pits on Indian Roads during the rainy season! ;-)

skyfox - did you have a bsquare powerhandheld once?

I am also planning to buy this machine. I need this device for simple, not so powerful development machine, where I can open up a text pad and run mysql on it. Can you run mysql on this machine and how responsive is running small dev mysql server there?

Redfly

Anyone else use this device?
I chose to purchase the Touch Pro and the RedFly instead of the Shift.
I do see on celiocorp.com that the Touch Pro is not yet supported, I went ahead & purchased it anyway due to the fact that its on sale for $199 until Oct. 31.
has anyone tested any of the current drivers for the supported windows mobile 6.1 devices and get it to connect with the Touch Pro?
Any helpful information would be appreciated, thank you.

woohoo! i got it working!
i'm glad i made this choice instead of the shift.

Hi,
I bought it too, and use it with my TouchPro, using one of the BETA-drivers for regular QVGA devices.
So it does not work well yet...everything is at least twice if not four times as big as it should be on the screen, Opera does not work either.
BUT even so...I still use the RedFly a lot (notes in meetings, and some surfing in PIE at home in the evenings)....so this promises well for later!
When the actual Diamond/TouchPro drivers come (from what I have heard, Celio is working on it as-we-speak), this will get a lot better...looking forward to that...then I can park my laptop most of the time, and use the RedFly for practically all my "on the go" stuff.
And then with RedFly against LogMeIn (www.logmein.com), I can also take over work- and home-PC's remotely, and do everything the RedFly itself can't do.
In short...love the RedFly...and at 199 USD...the price was just right for me!
And before people start hammering out that you can get a laptop for X dollars...I do not want a laptop...I actually like that the RedFly has looong batterylife, that it is instant on, that it does not get warm, that I do not need to install/setup another PC (I got many enough at work and home as it is. So for me...RedFly is "the thing"!

Can you use the VGA out and usb ports on the redfly? What output resolution? What can you plug into the usbs?

its not 100%, but it works well.
i can't wait until the updated drivers are released.
i did alot of research b4 purchasing the Touch Pro. i had an HTC Advantage x7501 and i wanted to downsize. i couldnt decide between a pocketpc or an umpc & a standard cell.
my biggest thing is i wanted to be able to pick up the phone w/ ease and be able to use it without a headset as well as have access to my emails, mobile apps, etc.
I had gotten used to the 7 inch screen on my advantage... so then i saw the Redfly and it was perfect! it doesnt replace a laptop, but it does make my pocketpc more user friendly. i'm able to utilize my mobile apps on an 8 inch screen and keyboard.
i use alot of apps that i hadn't b4.

Mr.Sir said:
Can you use the VGA out and usb ports on the redfly? What output resolution? What can you plug into the usbs?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
go to www.celiocorp.com , it will give you all the tech. details to the device.

I am using my Touch Pro with an eeePC 900... perfect combination of full WinXP mini laptop and mobile internet. Plus I charge my Pro from the eee while in use too!

I'm experimenting now with RedFly - as my Raphael is on repair vacation - with Hermes. So fa so good and the current price ($199) is still a bit above it's real value (takieng into account eeePC - especially 901 - and similar devices). All I can say now is that 800x480 screen requires a lot of processing power and Hermes is barely able to handle this. I hope, that Raphael with it's mush speedier processor will work better.
The big problem so far is incompatibility with Opera 9.5 on Hermes for both OVGA and VGA versions.

i prefer the redfly over my eeepc 1000HD, because my goal is to utilize the pocketpc, software and processor thats available on it; that is why i chose to purchase a pocket pc over a standard cell & carrying a umpc or a mini pc.
i luv the fact that you don't have to wait for it to boot, and it uses your phone for the processor.
i think the price is perfect, being that i paid $100 for my stowaway bluetooth keyboard a year back.
it works well with my Touch Pro and I'm sure it will work much better once the drivers are released that support the Touch Pro.
i highly recommend it.

I have had the RedFly for another week now...and use it more and more...and the batterylife is exceptional. Brought the RedFly and my TouchPro on a trip last weekend (left on friday morning)...and dropped bringing a charger, thought the RedFly could charge my phone.
And during the weekend I used the RedFly over usbcable in the evenings while surfing...and the phone got charged from 50-60% to full both times.
And used the RedFly regularily during this week over bluetooth in meetings and a little surfing in the evenings.
And still have not charged the RedFly...one week later...that is truly amazing for a guy who is used to a 1.5-2 hour batterylife on my laptop. Of course this is not an laptop...but it sure does the job for me.
Miss the drivers though.
Would like to use Opera (which fails with current drivers), higher resolution.
Another issue, which really is not anRedFly issue, but an issue with HTC/LogMeIn, is that LogMeIn has a few snags with the TouchPro and TouchDiamond...the hardware keyboard of the TouchPro (and thereby also the RedFly is affected) does not work with LogMeIn at the moment (have just raised a ticket with support at LogMeIn, but I am sure someone has already done so before).
When I have the drivers, with Opera and resolution fixed, AND LogMeIn fixes their issues with TouchPro...my RedFly will be my soulmate! :-D
Only stuff I would use a "real computer for" then will be when I sit and develop software at work (I work with developing software for Windows Mobile)...for that stuff I still prefer a big 24" screen with mega resolution!

I tried Shift but found the battery quite disappointing. I then tried the X7510 but the keyboard is good but not good enough for note taking at work.
Have been using Redfly for a few days with my touchpro. Things I like about Redfly:
1) Almost instant-on (extremely pleased with the responsiveness)
2) Excellent battery life (more than enough for an office day)
3) The $199 price (probably the best price performance option at this point).
4) Least maintenance (when I refresh my touchpro to a newer rom, the performance on redfly also improves. On top of it, I no longer to keep syncing files in 2 separate devices.)
5) Performance with a touchpro is very good on USB/BT pairing. (no complaint)
Things on my wish list for the future Redfly.
1) Size and weight could be slimmer and lighter.
2) Other users have mentioned about touchpro driver and video improvement.
3) May be more flexibilities to allow users to map buttons to programs.
4) So simple that it could become boring to use after a while.
Overall, I am quite happy with my new Redfly.

Man, I just got my Alltel ppc 6800 upgraded to wm6.1 and got my Redfly and now I'm already drooling over your Pros. The ram on the 6800 just gets overloaded too easily, the Pro would fix that entirely.
LogMeIn though on the 6800 is close to perfect, you can run all the Enterprise level stuff like SAP that just crawls on VPN on a notebook at real network speeds using LogMeIn and the Redfly, it makes the Redfly/phone combo actually seriously better than a regular notebook on the road for big applications on the corporate network. Using LogMeIn on a 2.8 inch screen used to make me want to claw my own eyes out but on the Redfly it works fine, for a guy who spends a lot of time on the road this is sweet. The only problem I have now is I can't update my Ipod on the road, I love podcasts and there is no easy way to get them on my ipod touch without a computer.

adamelphick said:
I am using my Touch Pro with an eeePC 900... perfect combination of full WinXP mini laptop and mobile internet. Plus I charge my Pro from the eee while in use too!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How do you use your Touch Pro *with* your eeePC... do they connect - and does the eeePC display the screen from the Touch pro?
Or are you just tethering and using them together that way?
I have an ASUS AspireOne and am very intrigued.

Hi there,
Can you be more specific about the exact driver that you got to work with the Touch Pro? Also, was yours a Sprint Touch Pro? I'm assuming that they have NOT been, and there may be some carrier-specific incompatibilities that are going to make me wait for an official driver.
thanks for any wisdom!

opera 8.65 works great for internet

phildro said:
Hi there,
Can you be more specific about the exact driver that you got to work with the Touch Pro? Also, was yours a Sprint Touch Pro? I'm assuming that they have NOT been, and there may be some carrier-specific incompatibilities that are going to make me wait for an official driver.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The tytnII driver works but unfortunately you cannot use the touchflo 3d today plug-in. The touch pro driver beta is coming out pretty soon as they have started looking for some beta testers.

I'm guessing you don't have a *SPRINT* Touch Pro that you've gotten to work with the tytnII drivers? I have seen from other threads that this may be a totally incompatible combination.
I disabled TouchFlo, installed the drivers and the Redfly didn't connect.

I can also confirm that the Sprint Touch Pro does not work with those drivers... The driver installs fine, and the phone recognizes that something is connected to it, but the redfly does not connect to the phone.
Redfly support confirmed that the driver was coming out soon. I can't wait. I have two and they are both plugged in and charging until they can be used...
It is sad to see the cute little red box on my desk every day and not being able to use it.

bioart said:
I can also confirm that the Sprint Touch Pro does not work with those drivers... The driver installs fine, and the phone recognizes that something is connected to it, but the redfly does not connect to the phone.
Redfly support confirmed that the driver was coming out soon. I can't wait. I have two and they are both plugged in and charging until they can be used...
It is sad to see the cute little red box on my desk every day and not being able to use it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I get the same results. I hope the driver comes out soon!

Download for the Beta drivers for Touch Pro/Diamond at the Celio website. Also will need to update the Redfly firmware to get these drivers to work.