Database Users

Athena as a UMPC

Hey all,
A while ago I've started my hunt for a UMPC. My demands were not simple:
1. Relatively cheap - up to 700$
2. 3.5G connectivity
3. TV-OUT port
4. ~7" screen size
5. Good battery life
6. Keyboard of some kind
7. GPS
I've looked around and couldn't find anything that answered those demands. The biggest issue with UMPCs I've looked at is poor battery life. After a while, I started to think about the Athena as a UMPC alternative. It answers almost all of my demands except the smaller screen and of-course being a WM device its not a fully capable PC. I wanted to ask you Athena owners, if you think that the Athena could be the device for me. Do you feel the need for a more capable OS? Do you wish to replace it with a bigger UMPC? Do some of you have a UMPC and the Athena and feel they complete each other?
Thanks a lot....

I have owned the Athena for almost a year now. I also own the Sony VAIO U70 which is one of their earlier UMPC for Japan Only. (See Info at: )
http://www.mobiletechreview.com/notebooks/sony_vaio_U50.htm
The VAIO is a great little device that was ahead of its time in my view, however, given the choice, I carry the Athena when I travel. The main reasons, you have already named, GPS, a keyboard of sorts and HSDPA connectivity. I can travel for a week or so without missing any functionality on keeping up with e-mails, opening nearly any attachment, connecting to hotel WiFi, surfing the web, and phone functions as well. Carrying only one light weight charger is also a big plus for me.
The UMPC came with everything included, the docking station, a folding keyboard, etc... but this one did not offer data connectivity other than WiFi which is still typical on most newer UMPC's. The HTC Shift makes a step in the right direction, however it loses the ability to serve as a mobile phone, it's size is considerably larger than you'd want as a phone anyway, and it lacks GPS.
In my view, carrying a phone and a UMPC along with chargers and accessories doesn't make as much sense and just carrying the Athena. I do carry the LG Style-I for use as a phone handset since the Athena is a speakerphone only unless you want to get wired. You need a Bluetooth (something) with the Athena.

Check out the Asus EEE Pc!
I am completly satisfied with my athena, and I can do almost anything that I can do on a regular computer. Also with TomTom installed I think I have the perfect GPS solution, I am not sure that there is really an competitor for the PC that can even come close to TomTom.
But then again, if you need to run Windows XP or another more complete OS then check out the EEE pc instead. http://eeepc.asus.com/global/
It has an 7" screen and a full keybord, also you can always use an USB GPS.

As I posted on the other similar thread, I was in the market for a new phone and laptop, and after getting the Athena I'm not looking for a laptop anymore.

And don't forget that you can still use remote desktop or equivalent software to use any XP or Vista program with Athena.
Battary life should feature prominently in your requirement. No good if you get an UMPC that meets all the requirement but forcing you to carry five bulky spare battery each lasting just 1.5 hours.
Athena is the most perfect all in one mobile device which does it all at this point, IMHO.
If you plan to use it notebook style, get a X7510 (with better keyboard but few hardware keys). If you plan to use it tablet style, get a X7500/X7501 (with better hardware keys).
One aspect of evaluation that you might not have thought about very carefully is portability. 7 inch is no longer possible to be carried around 24/7; whereas 5 inch screen is still very portable. 5 inch screen, together with the realVGA software, will let you see a lot. I don't think you need to see anymore than that as a mobile device.
Another consideration should be what software are there for a mobile device. This may trigger many disagreement, but I'll still say it. XP and Vista software are not appropriate for mobile device IMHO. You need touchscreen, you need it designed for fingers. You can't get the same breath of software on XP and Vista for mobile device. No Tom Tom, No iGO, no top notch plugins that displays all schedule/calendar on the desktop like pocket informant does, no WIMP, not much choice is expense recording software, no good calculators, no good photo dialing programs, etc etc. If you're going to use word, spreadsheet and power point, use SoftMaker Office. It matches the desktop microsoft office in functinos and features. If you're going to use it for internet browsing, go for Opera Mobile or Netfront to give very satisfactory speed. Often people make the mistake of thinking that XP or Vista gives you more software choice. This is true yet untrue. It has better choice in the wrong area. In the area that matters on the move, it has very little or no choice.

Using it as my UMPC
I had the same questions as you. I started looking for a UMPC over a year ago, and was tempted by the OQO 2. I actually ordered it and used it for a weekend. It was returned for a couple of reasons: 1) screen was too small to really be useable; 2) I already have a Blackberry, and did not want to thumb type.
I then considered the Fuji A810 UMPC. I never ordered it because of the passive touch screen. I figured if I was going to pay $1,000+ I wanted and active screen, or really good palm rejection. Since I like to ink, really, only the OQO was a good choice -screen wise. Sometimes the inking on the Advantage is tricky, but I am learning how to avoid vectoring issues. The same issue would have happened on any other UMPC (not the OQO, however).
I never considered the Asus, or any machine running Linux. I have no clue what that OS means, so it was a no go from the start.
I then heard that CompUSA had the Advantage for $550.00 and went to play with it in the store. Put in my BB Sim card, and bingo, I was off and running. I went back the next day and bought one.
I am using the Advantage as my UMPC. I have had it for about 2 months, and think it was a good buy and good decision. To make it more "UMPC like," I have added programs that replicate my Tablet PC pretty well. I am evaluating EverNote for its inking ability (although I have OneNote Mobile also installed, it does not yet (ever?) support inking. I also have SoftMaker Office 2006 (soon to be 2008 and will allow printing via BT).
I also added a data only SIM card ($35.00/mo). When I have longer emails to which I have to respond, the Advantage is perfect. I have gotten pretty quick with the keyboard.
I use MobSync to sync client folders with Word and Excel files. I also use MobSync to transfer Notes from EverNote.
If I do not have my Tablet with me, I have the Advantage. I also always carry the BB, since I do not want to use the Advantage as a phone.
Overall, I think the Advantage is a perfect UMPC solution for me. It took some program purchases to make it what I wanted, but the setup is just what I was hoping for. I love the screen, love the keyboard, love the storage, like the programs I purchased. I can't really think of a downside to using this as my UMPC. The overall cost, with the CompUSA reduction, is still less than what I would have paid for a XP Tablet UMPC.

good thread
my athena is due to arrive tomorrow.
reading this thread only guarantees that i've made a right choice in getting one.
ciao!

I use mine as UMPC connected via Remote Desktop or LOGMEIN.COM to My home/office PC.
No needs for more licences for SW, I use remotely the software AND THE COMPUTING POWER I have! And all data ara safely stored too

Thank you all, my x7500 has arrived today.

Why Shift if you already have an Athena?

I thought I would like to open a new thread for Athena and Shift comparsion. So the information would be more organized. For those who own both Shift and Athena, please your feedback highly appreciated. Anything at all, you regret your shift, or what you don't like about shift? or you love your shift until you want to let your Athena go?
@Wu5262 I thought you mention that you will never consider the Shift?
Thank you in Advance
I would mention what I like about Athena:
I'm using my Athena pretty much 12x7. All my data is pretty much synchronized to my laptop. I could get an instant on with Athena which I appreciate a lot. I could open many word documents with windows mobile 6 with high responsiveness. Snappiness is great when you need to retrieve any information quickly from time to time. I always keep my Athena in my pocket(Using Hugo Boss Dress Pant fit nicely) where ever I go even to Universal Studio until my Athena Dented from the rides(Duh!). It's got Dictionary for Business, Medical, and English, which I find to be very helpful for day to day basis. I have PocketBreeze to organize all my tasks and calendar at the very front of today's screen. That's the first thing in the morning that i would look at when I just turn on my Athena to organize the rest of my day. A Kick Ass Pocket Informant. I also have all my important documents and data on the laptop being stored in the Athena microdrives. Excellent battery life with USB Based car charger which is a big plus convenience. Opera lets me browse through many websites with a breeze. A big high quality 5 inch screen that doesn't strain my eyes. I own Thinkpad T60 and IMO the screen in Athena is better. I could still get fatigue with Thinkpad's screen, not sure why. All I need out of Athena is an even bigger, faster storage, and faster processor system. Speed is my upmost number one priority. My boss often calls me for an information and therefore I need to provide him the soonest or ELSE.
Minor Shortcomings: Slow Charging
Shift is tempting, but I'm afraid I may regret my purchase. I don't have the luxury to try out this baby before buying.

great post, i was thinking the same. at first there was the attraction to the shift, but now, i could get the blu ray burner vaio from comet for a shift. and keep my athena...
says it all really
Rory

PPC may do 80% of daily application, it's necessary to do some bank, AUTOCAD, and some others application under winxp when you are outside, I think winxp is enough, no need Vista.

only reason to use shift is for the vista apps that cant be found on wm.

It kind of funny you started this thread tonight - I just happened to take out my HTC x7501 tonight and have both of them out on my desk at atm. I have been torn ever since I have gotten my shift. I have been trying to use the shift only and see if it will fit all my needs. For my needs and think yours from reading your post you want to compare the WM6 side. The Vista side of the shift was supposed to be more of bonus for me to make it even more usefull. I had mistakenly thought shift's WM side would be as powerful as the x7501 right out of the box. I was very much mistaken. Till a cooked rom comes out for the shift it has many short coming compared to the x7501 on the WM side. No GPS, limited storage space and no camera functions. No external buttons that work in slate mode. So currently there is no comparsion needed. If I was compare the devices assuming a cooked rom will give us these things here is my take.
I see two major pros for the shift over the advantage.
The biggest pro for the shift is the screen. Both the size and the color/brightness of the shift's screen is a big plus. The shift's screen is hands down nicer screen. The useable shift screen size on the WM side is sligthly bigger than the entire x7501 device. The bigger sceen makes using your finger to navigate even better. It is also a boon for reading emails or ebooks. The second is the keyboard. The keyboard on the shift is way better than the x7501. It is bigger and has great feedback. It is a joy to type out an email mesage on the WM6 side of the shift compared to the x7501.
The biggest pros for the x7501 over the shift is it size ???
I know I just said the same thing about shift. But when you carry the x7501 around it is small enough to put in coat or jacket pocket and it form factor makes it look likea small book. Compare that to the "man bag" the shift is carried around in. The shift is much bigger and heaver to drag around. The shift dose not fit into any pockets of any jacket I own, and even if it did it is to heavy would weight down on that side of your jacket. The other pro of the x7501 over shift is its storage choices having the bigger internal memory, a mini sd card, and a hardrive. That is just sweet! Even after the shift rom is cooked it never be able to compete with x7501 in this area. I worry that I will always be wanting in this area with my shift.
You know I could go round and round with pros and cons both devices are nice, sexy looking and have features that other does not have. I don't know if I will ever be 100% happy with either now that I have both. I think I will have to hold on to both and visit this again after a cooked rom comes out for the shift. Till then I will probably keep switching back and forth and wishing that I took other device with me instead after a while.
I don't If I helped answer question but I sure have made myself confused now

stormforger said:
It kind of funny you started this thread tonight - I just happened to take out my HTC x7501 tonight and have both of them out on my desk at atm. I have been torn ever since I have gotten my shift. I have been trying to use the shift only and see if it will fit all my needs. For my needs and think yours from reading ....
I don't If I helped answer question but I sure have made myself confused now
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
shift should i think be bought for the reason of u wanting a umpc. the wm side is not so good right now. shift is a nice device but has a bit too many shortcomings out of the box. it will be nice once modded. remind me a bit of the iphone

Oh one other thing I like better about the shift is that it's battery recharges much faster than the x7501. I know it not a big deal but I like not having to wait long for anything

stormforger said:
Oh one other thing I like better about the shift is that it's battery recharges much faster than the x7501. I know it not a big deal but I like not having to wait long for anything
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hehe yea thats a big plus.

stormforger said:
Oh one other thing I like better about the shift is that it's battery recharges much faster than the x7501. I know it not a big deal but I like not having to wait long for anything
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes you are very right, the first time I bought my Athena, I was shocked on how slow the battery charging especially out of a USB port. Not sure if Advantage 7510 would improve considerably.

i guess i bought the shift because i realize i need vista to complete some of my work, there are just quite a few software which doesn't run under ppc, so i need an UMPC, another reason that i bought shift is because this forum, i know i will have lots of fun treaking the device and there will be lots of support here as well.
Shift is not for everyone, but certainly i am happy about it.

wu5262 said:
i guess i bought the shift because i realize i need vista to complete some of my work, there are just quite a few software which doesn't run under ppc, so i need an UMPC, another reason that i bought shift is because this forum, i know i will have lots of fun treaking the device and there will be lots of support here as well.
Shift is not for everyone, but certainly i am happy about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yep. the community is always the key. u have the people from the athena forums here now working on the shift and u also have pof here. the shift will be a nice device once we are done with it.

HTC Shift Vs HTC Athena
the athena is a very good device. I bought the Shift mainly just for fun. In fact u can do most things on the athena. The curve of owning a HTC Shift goes like this. During the first few hours it was really fun. I was quite amazed with the quality and the keyboard. After playing for awhile then i realize the Winmo is far inferior to Athena. i cannot install all my applications into it as the internal memory is so small. Not only that it cannot read the SD card. I read somewhere in this forum that there is no way to connect to the sd card as there are no wires attaching to it. After that I left it at home. Without bothering to play with it. After a week I started reading this forum again and some smart guy suggested to remove the finger recoginition security. I did it and wow, the speed is now much faster and acceptable. I started removing all those applications I don't need such as Origami and so on. I tweaked around with the battery settings as well. Now I am beginning to like it again as I have longer battery life and a faster machine. One thing is that I don't understand is why HTC only puts 64mb ram into this. Are they thinking of launching a HTC Shift 2 with 128mb ram. And a longer battery life. I think this is a way they milk the consumers for more money..

Sometimes i really wonder what users in this forum are expecting from the Shift: Shift is a WindowsVista-UMPC in first place - the limited WindowsMobile-Part SnapVUE is just a nice Add-on for Instand-On (and powersaving) Mail, Calendar and Contact access. Not more, not less. That's why even the Hardware of the WM-Part is that limited (no Storage access) - hey, in fact, the WM-Side is not much more than the 3G Modem for Vista.
I bougt it because i wanted to have a small Vista-PC - otherwhise, i would have kept my HTC Universal. Yeah, i opended the WM-Side to install Opera and GPRSmonitor (too keep track of my 3G-Usage - 5 gigabyte contract...). But i don't expect more from SnapVue - and it does what's advertised, pretty well.

skin57 said:
Sometimes i really wonder what users in this forum are expecting from the Shift: Shift is a WindowsVista-UMPC in first place - the limited WindowsMobile-Part SnapVUE is just a nice Add-on for Instand-On (and powersaving) Mail, Calendar and Contact access. Not more, not less. That's why even the Hardware of the WM-Part is that limited (no Storage access) - hey, in fact, the WM-Side is not much more than the 3G Modem for Vista.
I bougt it because i wanted to have a small Vista-PC - otherwhise, i would have kept my HTC Universal. Yeah, i opended the WM-Side to install Opera and GPRSmonitor (too keep track of my 3G-Usage - 5 gigabyte contract...). But i don't expect more from SnapVue - and it does what's advertised, pretty well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you have your opinion and we have ours ... we know that the shift is able to do more than by default .. so we will try to make it the best possible.
the shift is not the fastest UMPC and if you bought it just to have an umpc .. I think that you got it wrong. The shift is first a double OS and it's important for US... because it's like having 2 devices in one ! A PDA/PPC that you can use 24h/24 and a computer that you can use WHEN YOU WANT.
I personnaly want the shift to replace my laptop, my desktop, and my phone (HTC TOUCH) .. it's my opinion and nobody will be able to change my mind about it.
If you think that for you it's a little computer and that you are happy with it .. that's cool, but we may want more for a device that can do more
that's all

Yeah i have an athena a phone viewty and a ASUS eee so this could replace all 3 or maybe just the eee and athena its a convergence device it does what it says on the tin but is only average at each point but good enougth i think

skin57 said:
Sometimes i really wonder what users in this forum are expecting from the Shift: Shift is a WindowsVista-UMPC in first place - the limited WindowsMobile-Part SnapVUE is just a nice Add-on for Instand-On (and powersaving) Mail, Calendar and Contact access. Not more, not less. That's why even the Hardware of the WM-Part is that limited (no Storage access) - hey, in fact, the WM-Side is not much more than the 3G Modem for Vista.
I bougt it because i wanted to have a small Vista-PC - otherwhise, i would have kept my HTC Universal. Yeah, i opended the WM-Side to install Opera and GPRSmonitor (too keep track of my 3G-Usage - 5 gigabyte contract...). But i don't expect more from SnapVue - and it does what's advertised, pretty well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well for me, I was expecing Shift to be a superb WM Phone with Vista as a bonus. WM with a nice huge screen and a nice keyboard to work on. I already own Thinkpad T60 with 3GB RAM, 4GB Readyboost, fast little machine.
I'm not expecting the Vista in Shift to replace my laptop knowing that it's only got 20GB free storage to work on and 1GB RAM(For VISTA just INSANE).
Sure it would be nice to replace Athena and Thinkpad Laptop with Shift. But I will hold my breath on that.

koala996 said:
you have your opinion and we have ours ... we know that the shift is able to do more than by default .. so we will try to make it the best possible.
the shift is not the fastest UMPC and if you bought it just to have an umpc .. I think that you got it wrong. The shift is first a double OS and it's important for US... because it's like having 2 devices in one ! A PDA/PPC that you can use 24h/24 and a computer that you can use WHEN YOU WANT.
I personnaly want the shift to replace my laptop, my desktop, and my phone (HTC TOUCH) .. it's my opinion and nobody will be able to change my mind about it.
If you think that for you it's a little computer and that you are happy with it .. that's cool, but we may want more for a device that can do more
that's all
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey, i really LOVE the WM Part of the Shift - it's great to have instant-on-access to mail, calendar, contacts - and, after opening SnapVue, to OperaMobile (also as an instant on alternative... especially when Vista is doing updates etc). But again, it remains a UMPC in first place (and what it makes better than ANY UMPC on the market so far is the Keyboard, not to forget embedded 3G). That's what the hardware is designed to be - a UMPC with some added InstantOn-Functions. And that's the reason why the HARDWARE of WM on the shift is that limited: Low RAM, low FLASH, no Hardware-Keys in Slate-Mode, no Access to the HardDisk, no Access to the SD Card, no Access to WLAN, no access to Touchpad, no Access to the Fingerprint reader, no Access to the WebCam, even no Access to the Microphone (as far as i know - i analyzed the board very well, but it's hard to track wires on a multilayer board ). Yeah, these limitations are Hardware-Limitations, not changeable by a cooked ROM (and i really loved cocked roms for my HTC Universal). Yeah, i analyzed the hardware as good as possible. Yeah, it's possible to make this all available to the WM6 part of the shift - but ONLY (!!!!!!) with a running Vista and an application running on both ends that pass through these functions (and hey, this wouldn't make much sense, eh??).
I know, this is a WM community, so the focus HAS TO BE on WM. But again, the Shift was never designed to be an WM device in first place - and HTC markets it as an UMPC, not as an "Hyper-PDA".
By the way, ONE limitation MIGHT be removeable with WM 6.1: The screen resolution in WM.... 6.1 is the first version that supports 800x480 Screens (like on the SE Experia). So, indeed, there is some room left for improvements through cooked roms.

skin57 said:
Hey, i really LOVE the WM Part of the Shift - it's great to have instant-on-access to mail, calendar, contacts - and, after opening SnapVue, to OperaMobile (also as an instant on alternative... especially when Vista is doing updates etc). But again, it remains a UMPC in first place (and what it makes better than ANY UMPC on the market so far is the Keyboard, not to forget embedded 3G). That's what the hardware is designed to be - a UMPC with some added InstantOn-Functions. And that's the reason why the HARDWARE of WM on the shift is that limited: Low RAM, low FLASH, no Hardware-Keys in Slate-Mode, no Access to the HardDisk, no Access to the SD Card, no Access to WLAN, no access to Touchpad, no Access to the Fingerprint reader, no Access to the WebCam, even no Access to the Microphone (as far as i know - i analyzed the board very well, but it's hard to track wires on a multilayer board ). Yeah, these limitations are Hardware-Limitations, not changeable by a cooked ROM (and i really loved cocked roms for my HTC Universal). Yeah, i analyzed the hardware as good as possible. Yeah, it's possible to make this all available to the WM6 part of the shift - but ONLY (!!!!!!) with a running Vista and an application running on both ends that pass through these functions (and hey, this wouldn't make much sense, eh??).
I know, this is a WM community, so the focus HAS TO BE on WM. But again, the Shift was never designed to be an WM device in first place - and HTC markets it as an UMPC, not as an "Hyper-PDA".
By the way, ONE limitation MIGHT be removeable with WM 6.1: The screen resolution in WM.... 6.1 is the first version that supports 800x480 Screens (like on the SE Experia). So, indeed, there is some room left for improvements through cooked roms.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it's not because we are a WM community that we want WM to be the best.. we whant the SHIFT to be the best... and we are pretty sure that we will be able to make these things running in WM.
you think that we need an application to make everything working from WM side... but why are you sure that it's not the opposite? That an application running in WM side is "silently" sharing the hardware to Vista. .. and that it is disabled in WM side?
The chipset with 3G is from WM side... and the WM side share the 3G to VISTA.. so it could be the same for BT,Wifi, SD, ....

koala996 said:
it's not because we are a WM community that we want WM to be the best.. we whant the SHIFT to be the best... and we are pretty sure that we will be able to make these things running in WM.
you think that we need an application to make everything working from WM side... but why are you sure that it's not the opposite? That an application running in WM side is "silently" sharing the hardware to Vista. .. and that it is disabled in WM side?
The chipset with 3G is from WM side... and the WM side share the 3G to VISTA.. so it could be the same for BT,Wifi, SD, ....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I could argue with obvious hardware design (the UMPC side is pretty easy to analyze, have a look at the PCI and USB busses). I could argue with "Traced wires on the board" (something that is not really reliable on a multilayer board).
But you can easily find out on your own: Reset SnapVue and see which functions are gone in VISTA while WM restarts. You'll find out: 3G radio (of course, as this is provided by WM - by the way: Through internet connection sharing) - and propably the Sound (but not because Sound is implemented through WM - have not found the reason so far). Bluetooth? Available. WiFi? Available. SD? Available. HDD?? Available.

skin57 said:
I could argue with obvious hardware design (the UMPC side is pretty easy to analyze, have a look at the PCI and USB busses). I could argue with "Traced wires on the board" (something that is not really reliable on a multilayer board).
But you can easily find out on your own: Reset SnapVue and see which functions are gone in VISTA while WM restarts. You'll find out: 3G radio (of course, as this is provided by WM - by the way: Through internet connection sharing) - and propably the Sound (but not because Sound is implemented through WM - have not found the reason so far). Bluetooth? Available. WiFi? Available. SD? Available. HDD?? Available.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't have the Shift yet.. so I can't test it myself.. but I have never heard about it before (maybe because I have never heard about someone rebooting WM when Vista was launched).
It will be harder .. yes .. but we will try our best to make it work in both sides !

No Wlan Connection

Hello - I just got my Shift yesterday. German Edition.
It works well. The only Thing is I do not get the WLAN to work.
I have 2 WLAN stations with G and N standard activated but I do not get a
connection. Certainly I enabled the WLAN in Vista with the THC Tool.
I also tried to do settings in the device driver.
But Windows Vista still does not find any network ( WLAN ).
EDGE is working when tunred on.
PLEASE HELP - OTHERWISE I SEND IT BACK.
Thank you in advance
Marcus

Send it back (sorry, couldn't help myself)

Hi Markus,
I had the "same" problem. I could not get a connection with my Netgear Router. Then I tried another one from t-mobile, what is its name? Speedport or something and everything works nicely.
So go somewhere and try a different router. Maybe it helps.
S.

I'm using a cheap old modem/router and it works 100%...I would try and different router too borrowed from a friend. You need to keep the Shift

Hello
So I decided to send the Shift back.
I am not willing gaming around with wlan. I spent about 6 hours.
WLAN ist a standard for years and my routers are absolutly standrd.
Why should I buy a new router while I am having some of the best on the market which work with all notebooks and computer and also iphone + htc kaiser ?
I Think they used a very damn wlan crad. Why not using a intel wlan ?
All in all the testing of the shift was funny. A nice UMPC with a very lack of having a Display showing 1024x600 Pixel. The 800x480 are useless.
So here I end my writing.
Much more fun - I wait for the next revision with Intel ATOM CPU.

Hard to know if it was your wlan or the Shift, or you? What is clear is the Shift isn't for you, because experience tells me if you had the issue above and you liked your Shift then you would have invested the time in finding a solution...
1024 x 600 is fine if you have microscopes for eyes...I have connected with about 7 wlans so far, without issue....Intel Atom CPU, might be good, who knows, but might the same too - we are talking low voltage here so there will still be limitations - Intel does not mean perfect by any means.
What we really need for this market is a more suitable OS, not beefed up hardward.

Hello - sorry you are wrong with me
I own even 2 more Samsung UMPCs and are familiar with a lot of mobile phones and devices ( it is my job).
We live in the 2008 and WLAN is a world wide standard.
A device with wlan has just to work.
Also I invested about 8 hours testing with drivers.
I am also windows certified on vista.
Even with this knowledge I did only get a connection to a neigbors wlan.
I own an apple aitport express configured as g+n
and an AVM 7270 with B+G configured.
The last 12 month I tested about 87 notebooks and about 40 mobile phones. All did work at once. Also many HTC devices.
The Shift did now.
Also I own a Sony mini Computer with a 5 Zoll Display and it is just better than the HTC - 800x480 is not made for vista.
Even the Shift startup Windows are not displayed correctly.
Sorry - it is very easy to read on a 1024x768 Display.
I think you just did not see a good one yet.
Vista also can configure the fonts so that is very good to read.
About the CPU - if you once see an AMTOM CPU you will never post something like you did. It is just amazin. I had one to test here.
I think the Shift is a good beta device - last year it woud have been a wow, but it was just released in germany and it is dissapointing.
Sorry !
Best reagrds
As I told you - I wait for Release 2 in some month

Hey man, I'm not upset or anything by your post, hope you aren't with mine, because I didn't intend that
I don't have access to the wonderful things that you do by the sounds of it, so if I have a device that has a error with something I tend to stick with it until I find a solution - I don't really have any other choice. So, when my Shift didn't pick up 3G properly I stuck by and tweaked it until it did. Sorry if I sounded insensitive - I know what it's like for something to not work...very frustrating.
Re the screen - I have seen the hi def wonders out there, and I've seen the blunders like OQO01 (dim and sorta blurry)...I actually like the Shift resolution for day to day use, but I guess if it had the option to support true 1024*768 then it would be better suited to everyone. I think you're right, the next version will most likely have better resolution...
OK, I will keep an open mind about the Atom...maybe it can answer our performance issues for these UMPC's (it's clear Via isn't up to the task either at present), although I will stick with my preference for the OS manufacturers to provide a better option than Vista, or at least a different "type" of Vista. XP is perfectly adequate and would probably fly on this thing esp with a gig of RAM....
I didn't realise until recently the Shift had been announced for so long...so even with relatively new eyes on it, it answered many of my needs - especially the pocket PC side...I paid $1400 for a Jornada 720 when they first came out, and so this device with a PC side, and connectivity at $2000 seems like a fair price. It's all dependant on ones points of relativity I guess.
Anyways, all the best, and I hope you find the right device for you...cheers

Wireless keyboard?

HI!
Does anyone know if there is a wireless keyboard that will support wm6.1? I bought an igo and it was fine on my jasjam (running wm5) but when I upgraded to wm6 it stopped working and igo will not release new drivers for it. I now have a kaiser but still want a wireless keyboard
If anyone could help that would be great!
Thanks

My igo stowaway worked fine on my wm6 kaiser... and works fine on my wm6.1 omnia

can you please tell me what driver you used? My igo stoaway keyboard only has drivers for wm5 and PPC2003

The stowaway 5 driver works fine on my kaiser... the omnia worked out of the box.

Here's the driver i use for my stowaway... works flawlessly.

thats the cab i tried to use too
What stowaway keyboards do you guys have? is it this one?

I'm curious, what do you guys use wireless keyboards for? I don't see the benefit since the built in keyboard is so great.

-haze- said:
I'm curious, what do you guys use wireless keyboards for? I don't see the benefit since the built in keyboard is so great.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The built in keyboard is so....er... whats the world that isn't great... barely acceptable?
The stowaway on the other hand has proper keys, like the ones on a real pc keyboard. Along with a nice set of keyboard short cuts and a control key!
The built in one is fine for a quick text message. But if you're planning on doing any writing for longer that 10 minutes the stowaway is an amazingly good investment.
So If i'm on the train, I open my stowaway, put the pda on the built in stand, and type. just as quick as a laptop and nowhere near the bulk.
The one in the thumbnail looks very similar to mine.

all you need is
an external keyboard, larger external screen, better antenna, maybe some proper dasd...
Get a netPC!

I used it in landscape but here's someone with a Kaiser who used it in portrait...
I used to use the stowaway iGo keyboard with my Tilt, it's great for all the reasons psionandy said, but...
mrg2003 has a point, and so now the iGo is used with this:
BUT for the same reasons psionandy said... it also has a built-in qwerty, but to borrow on mrg2003's sarcasm, it IS a full Windows XP Pro computer, and setting it up as a portable workstation with an iGo and a mouse is a breeze.
Actually right now it's my desktop computer,too
Would I use my iGo keyboard with my Tilt again? Not really, because the built-in qwerty is good enough for on-the-go, and if I have plans to do more than momentary computing outside the home, I take the UX with the iGo and just use that. BUT... not everyone has a UX like I do, SO THAT SAID, if you want to do extended computing on your Tilt, yeah, the iGo keyboard is the WAY TO GO.

Tilt and Stowaway
Just got the IGo Stowaway for my AT&T Tilt and it seems to work out of the box with WM6.1 - except for the function commands (written in blue). Does anyone know if the driver is needed for the function commands to work properly, or are those "blue" commands on the Stowaway for some other PDA?
Thanks,
ClbGld

I love my Celio Redfly.
keyboard/monitor expander/powers my Tilt.
Works out of the box.
Smaller keyboard than the stowaway... much improved screen.

I use Apple Bluetooth keyboard and Apple Might Mouse xD

loving my Celio Redfly
I'm not sure why your iGo Stowaway isn't working. I had trouble getting it to work at first when I tried downloading the .cab directly from my Tilt. When I installed it off my PC it worked just fine. Maybe you have a corrupted .cab. I've been using my Celio Redfly almost exclusively lately and have to say it was the best $100 I've ever spent. It powers up instantly, has amazing battery life, and is very portable.

bumblefreak said:
I'm not sure why your iGo Stowaway isn't working. I had trouble getting it to work at first when I tried downloading the .cab directly from my Tilt. When I installed it off my PC it worked just fine. Maybe you have a corrupted .cab. I've been using my Celio Redfly almost exclusively lately and have to say it was the best $100 I've ever spent. It powers up instantly, has amazing battery life, and is very portable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where did you find a RedFly for only $100?? I've been planning to get one, but $200 seemed a bit much.

Celio Redfly
RogueCheddar said:
Where did you find a RedFly for only $100?? I've been planning to get one, but $200 seemed a bit much.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oops, sorry that was a typo. Don't like using the thumbboard for long text. It was $200. However, the new models that are coming out come in 2 flavors. I believe the smaller, more portable model will be under $200. Even at $200, it was worth it and not for oh aah factor either.

yeah I'm not sure why mine won't work. I've downloaded the driver again but it still won't work (although it will on my jasjam which runs wm5)
Is celio redfly a phone or a wireless keyboard?

pinkdiamonds said:
yeah I'm not sure why mine won't work. I've downloaded the driver again but it still won't work (although it will on my jasjam which runs wm5)
Is celio redfly a phone or a wireless keyboard?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Celio Redfly is a larger keyboard and 800x600 WVGA display extension device for your WM phone. You connect your phone to it via USB or Bluetooth and it replaces your phone's display and key entry functions. Plus, connecting by USB allows it to charge your phone while connected. It has no OS, memory or processor of it's own, using strictly what your phone can bring to the party. It's your WM phone, but with keys you can actually type on, and a display you can actually see; plus the ability to attach USB devices like a mouse. It resembles a small very lightweight laptop, and has about an 7-8 hr battery life. Just Google it for more info, my friend.

my keyboard works just fine on 6.1. i use the native built in WM driver. you dont get to use a lot of the functions on the keyboard (apps, ok, send, inbox etc) but it works just fine. and honestly, its worked on every single 6.1 rom i've used. something might be up w/ your keyboard

I'm using my old "Palm Bluetooth Keyobard model#3245W" no drivers just pair and its a "HID" device and thats it. Just type away....
Just no hotkeys or special stuff like that. I like it better because its a "Full Size qwerty keyboard" with numbers across the top.

I Think I'm going to bail on the Shift...

I've tried to like it, i really have, but it's defeated me. The under two hours battery life for one. Now i was going to buy a tekkeon external battery pack, thats how much i wanted to stay with the Shift, and give the project time to come up with a rom. But i'm over it. The device was alomost there and i gad dreams of using it for days on the windows mobile side and occasionally switching over to vista. But i can't access the wifi from windows mobile. I can't access the SDcard from windows mobile. And for the life of me I can't get the GPS to work.
Even with the Roms available on the site now there's too many issues. The usb tool for one. The thing is just too unreliable. It drops out connecting to vista, it fails to sync outlooks emails if you have lots of them. Turn on high power and it's better but then vista lasts for an hour and a half.
It's almost the best UMPC I've ever owned but the compromises are too great.
I'm going to buy an Advantage and sync it to my LG P100 and that's replace the machine the Shift almost was.

mactablet said:
I've tried to like it, i really have, but it's defeated me. The under two hours battery life for one. Now i was going to buy a tekkeon external battery pack, thats how much i wanted to stay with the Shift, and give the project time to come up with a rom. But i'm over it. The device was alomost there and i gad dreams of using it for days on the windows mobile side and occasionally switching over to vista. But i can't access the wifi from windows mobile. I can't access the SDcard from windows mobile. And for the life of me I can't get the GPS to work.
Even with the Roms available on the site now there's too many issues. The usb tool for one. The thing is just too unreliable. It drops out connecting to vista, it fails to sync outlooks emails if you have lots of them. Turn on high power and it's better but then vista lasts for an hour and a half.
It's almost the best UMPC I've ever owned but the compromises are too great.
I'm going to buy an Advantage and sync it to my LG P100 and that's replace the machine the Shift almost was.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
--
I understand your frustrations. I did this with my ASUS R2H+Tilt for good number of months, but I moved to Shift because ASUS R2H is heavier than Shift and carrying two devices is much painful and also the power consumption is not that greater than Shift. I still own ASUS R2H and Tilt. I also have an Everon with Novatel 3G, I installed Windows Mobile 6 Emulator on that and played for a while, but it is like turning on the system completely forever, but the power consumption is much much better than R2H or Shift. I had Q1 before and a Vega but I retired them from active duty.
--Ram--

I can also understand your frustration...still, for now, I like it and cannot see me moving away until something else with a fully functioning trimmed down version of an operating system (plus Win7 or something) comes to fill the void. I have no issue with the USB Tool...I'm using i00 rom and XP tablet.

mactablet said:
I've tried to like it, i really have, but it's defeated me. The under two hours battery life for one. Now i was going to buy a tekkeon external battery pack, thats how much i wanted to stay with the Shift, and give the project time to come up with a rom. But i'm over it. The device was alomost there and i gad dreams of using it for days on the windows mobile side and occasionally switching over to vista. But i can't access the wifi from windows mobile. I can't access the SDcard from windows mobile. And for the life of me I can't get the GPS to work.
Even with the Roms available on the site now there's too many issues. The usb tool for one. The thing is just too unreliable. It drops out connecting to vista, it fails to sync outlooks emails if you have lots of them. Turn on high power and it's better but then vista lasts for an hour and a half.
It's almost the best UMPC I've ever owned but the compromises are too great.
I'm going to buy an Advantage and sync it to my LG P100 and that's replace the machine the Shift almost was.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO dont leave us.
its cool mate, sometimes using gps on the shift can take up to 15-20 mins to lock, sometime its bloody straight away. I have also come close to shopping it off but right now im still holding out for SD card access on the WM side. For me that's the one thing that will make this device truly wanted.
all the best with what ever decsion u make!

I keep going back and forth myself.
Despite all of my research, I can't believe all of the near deal-breakers I didn't discover until I had it in-hand. Specifically, the lack of SD card access and wi-fi in Snapvue mode.
I could honestly live without Vista--I was just hoping for a WinMo device in this form factor (large touch screen) with the slide out keyboard. Having to swap my SIM card and/or live with the horrible battery life & performance under Vista is proving to be a pain in the rear.

tjkraz said:
I keep going back and forth myself.
Despite all of my research, I can't believe all of the near deal-breakers I didn't discover until I had it in-hand. Specifically, the lack of SD card access and wi-fi in Snapvue mode.
I could honestly live without Vista--I was just hoping for a WinMo device in this form factor (large touch screen) with the slide out keyboard. Having to swap my SIM card and/or live with the horrible battery life & performance under Vista is proving to be a pain in the rear.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
agreed. I'm seriousl looking at the Viliv S5 with a touch HD for the Windows mobile solution. Paired with my stowaway BT keyboard and mouse the two units will do what the shift promised I think for the same weight or less, more power, more features and more functionality.
Viliv S5 + Touch HD
# Wake up to XP in 5 sec, wakeup to phone instant
# 6 hour video playback - > 5 hours solid computing useage, 50 hours plus internet and WinMO useage.
# 200 hours Standby Time + whatever the HD has
# GPS X 2, S5 has awesome GPS
# Touchscreen X 2, on screen keyboard X 2, full touch typeable keyboard for both (stowaway works fine on both devices)

Viliv Navigation on Shift
Hi,
here is the link to the navigation software used on the Viliv. (http://www.streetdeck.com/DownloadTrial.aspx)
I am downloading both the 20MB and 1.7GB free trials right now onto my Shift w/W7 RC.
If I get it all working, I'll post back the results (maybe even a video! )
tjkraz said:
I keep going back and forth myself.
Despite all of my research, I can't believe all of the near deal-breakers I didn't discover until I had it in-hand. Specifically, the lack of SD card access and wi-fi in Snapvue mode.
I could honestly live without Vista--I was just hoping for a WinMo device in this form factor (large touch screen) with the slide out keyboard. Having to swap my SIM card and/or live with the horrible battery life & performance under Vista is proving to be a pain in the rear.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why not try Windows 7 as a last ditch effort? The battery life improves, it isn't called Vista, it has a lighter feel to it, it isn't called Vista, and it is pleasantly surprising!
The upgrade was simple to do and the license is good for the next year

I've thought about Win 7 but it tanked badly on my tablet PC. I believe the touchscreen probs have been sorted for the shift. But there's no over coming the no wifi on windows mobile side, no SD card access.
You have an advantage so you'll know what I mean when I say about ahving a little unit you can take on the road that does 90% of the job of a laptop but runs for days. I travelled with the Advantage as my only "laptop" for weeks doing presentations and email etc all via 3G or when in airport lounges the wifi. 4 in 1 cable allowed access to all my pdf's docs, ppt's on a thumbdrive.
I want the Shift to be that unit. Run winmo 90% of the time without Vista running at all. Then if you need a full blown laptop you fire up vista and you're away. But I doubt it's going to get there anytime soon.

mactablet said:
I've thought about Win 7 but it tanked badly on my tablet PC. I believe the touchscreen probs have been sorted for the shift. But there's no over coming the no wifi on windows mobile side, no SD card access.
You have an advantage so you'll know what I mean when I say about ahving a little unit you can take on the road that does 90% of the job of a laptop but runs for days. I travelled with the Advantage as my only "laptop" for weeks doing presentations and email etc all via 3G or when in airport lounges the wifi. 4 in 1 cable allowed access to all my pdf's docs, ppt's on a thumbdrive.
I want the Shift to be that unit. Run winmo 90% of the time without Vista running at all. Then if you need a full blown laptop you fire up vista and you're away. But I doubt it's going to get there anytime soon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know what you mean.
The Advantage is great. I use it mostly like you just said. With the 4-in-1 and WM 90% of time. Then I use RemoteDesktopConnection via Wifi/3G to do some more PC based work. My only problem was I could not use it efficeintly so thats why I Opted for a Shift.
My wife and I like to travel and carrying 2 work laptops, plus the advantage is a bit crazy and airport security makes travelling harder. The Shift + Advantage is a good combo for us now. I agree I could not live with Shift alone, but it has come along way, the people here are making strides that no one else has been able to do.
I need WiFi and more memory on WM to use the programs I like better, but once SD card access is opened, you can have a 32 GB storage card for programs and that really nice big screen! (WiFi should be coming soon too, but with #g it is at least manageable for now. Storage is the biger issue)
BTW- W7 on shift is (in my opinion) much better than Vista. I love it. It works great, battery is much better, and I can't say enough good things about it. I'm also considering the 600MaH battery for Shift...that should give a real nice bat.life to the Shift on W7.
But, to each their own, everyone has thier own business/personal needs.
Also, you may want to look at HP TouchSmart tx2z series. I was looking at this as anther solution before the Shift and doing mobile internet via Expresscard slot & bluetooth . (Not cheaper, but close)
Hope that helps!

Bradaland said:
Why not try Windows 7 as a last ditch effort? The battery life improves, it isn't called Vista, it has a lighter feel to it, it isn't called Vista, and it is pleasantly surprising!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I did that a couple days ago (when the public RC was released) and it appears to be a device-saver. The Shift is 100% better with Win7 installed.