Database Users

Magician USB OTG Evidence? (USB Host)

Ok,
I was reading a post over at the PSP Linux forum about suspicions that the PSP has USB On-The-Go abilities. USB On-The-Go basically means a device can be a USB Host or a USB Client, and is usually restricted to a a certain class of USB devices - eg you might want a USB OTG camera to only act as a host with Storage Devices.
Now to quote this page http://www.beyondlogic.org/usb/otghost.htm ...
As a device can be either a host (A-device) or peripheral (B-device) and that the USB specification calls for different types of connectors for upstream and downstream ports, the OTG spec introduced two additional connectors. One such connector is a mini A/B connector allowing a mini A or mini B connector to plug into the one recepticle. A dual-role device is required to be able to detect whether a Mini-A or Mini-B plug is inserted by determining if the ID pin (an extra pin introduced by OTG) is connected to ground.
This basically says that tradictional USB uses A connectors for Hosts and B connectors for Clients. Because they needed to allow OTG devices to be used as both a Host and a Client, they designed a port that could accept both mini A and mini B connectors. Unsuprisingly, this is called a mini AB connector
So, for small USB Client devices, a mini B connector is used. They look like this:
http://www.cypressindustries.com/products/images/ccmusbb-32005-201.gif
For small USB OTG devices, the new miniAB port is used. They look like this:
http://www.cypressindustries.com/products/images/ccmusbab-32005-700.gif
so go look on the bottom of the Magician. Low and behold, a mini AB connector! In fact you'll see the cable they gave you with your magician is a mini B but it still fits into the mini AB connector on the jam, even though it's a slightly different shape.
Now, it could be USB Host was planned or the port was added to allow backwards compatability with the Magician2 or whatever, but all the same it's a pretty interesting feature, given that a company can probably source mini B connectors for cheaper than mini AB, (as not many companies are making them yet).

So... does the Jam have USB host functionality or not???
If so, here's some drivers to take advantage of this function. Use at your own risk.
http://www.deje.gmxhome.de/
http://www.anypakusa.com/PPC/
Maybe one could connect the jam to a hard drive???

I've did some research, and if the Magician supports USB On The Go (why else would there be a MiniAB connector on the bottom of the device in stead of a normal MiniB (4p) connector) it should be able to play USB Host.
I'm ordering a MiniA to A Female connector and I'm hoping it will work out so I can connect a USB Flashdrive, GPS reciever etc.etc.

Why do people need USB host on their Magician? I can only imagine using an USB keyboard, but everything else I can do with bluetooth and my 4 GB MMC card.
And for using my Magician as "USB-Brick" I use this here:
http://www.softick.com/pocket-pc/cardexport2/

Well... I don't like wireless That's the most important reason.
I want to use a wired GPS-reciever in my car.
I want to be able to connect a USB mass storage driver.
And I'm a geek who just wants to explore every possible option
So why shouldn't I give it a try

esackbauer said:
Why do people need USB host on their Magician? I can only imagine using an USB keyboard, but everything else I can do with bluetooth and my 4 GB MMC card.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I think most of the people are interested on the fact that you can actually use an ext hdd, e.g. you have 80GB+ of videos, mp3s that you play on your unit (although I doubt it is able to power the 2.5" type). You can print documents from your unit to a printer, get your pictures off your dig camera, use a USB ext wifi, etc.

hanmin said:
Well, I think most of the people are interested on the fact that you can actually use an ext hdd, e.g. you have 80GB+ of videos, mp3s that you play on your unit (although I doubt it is able to power the 2.5" type). You can print documents from your unit to a printer, get your pictures off your dig camera, use a USB ext wifi, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Excuse me for being a pain, but all these options are nonsense IMO, because Magician is the ultra portable device.
What is the sense of attaching a bulky 80GB hdd and cables to the Magician? To have its batteries empty in only 15 minutes?
Printing can be done wireless via infrared (HP printers) or WLAN, digicam pictures I can load by directly inserting its card in Magician. USB Wifi is also a joke as it drains the battery immediately.
If you want all these options, do it right and buy a Subnotebook and a 3G UMTS PC-Card.

esackbauer said:
Excuse me for being a pain, but all these options are nonsense IMO, because Magician is the ultra portable device.
What is the sense of attaching a bulky 80GB hdd and cables to the Magician? To have its batteries empty in only 15 minutes?
Printing can be done wireless via infrared (HP printers) or WLAN, digicam pictures I can load by directly inserting its card in Magician. USB Wifi is also a joke as it drains the battery immediately.
If you want all these options, do it right and buy a Subnotebook and a 3G UMTS PC-Card.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ditto

I really doubt it supports USB Host. The board definately supports it, but HTC don't implement it. I think this will yield no results....
Hope you prove me wrong
And dude...... 1.8" Hard Disk Drives are TINY!!! so just quit being a spoil sport

Of course I wouldn't be connecting an periperal eventhough how small it is while walking around, but while at home or in the car sounds ok.

Well USB OTG would be great as I could dump all of my pictures on my digital camera (1GB card) onto my Charmers 4GB SD card. On holiday and stuff this would be really handy so I don't run out of space.

to be honest its not about what you can do with it, its partly bragging rights, hey look i can do so and so on my phone.... etc..

I, for one, would like to see a USB host hack.
Yes, there are SDIO wifis.
Yes, there are SDIO cards that allow wall projector connection.
But these require that I give up my memory card, where I store my stuff, making these things have only limited use.*
I could use Bluetooth, but:
- A standalone BT <-> Wifi bridge that isn't a PC or doesn't connect to a PC does not yet exist. There is a Bluetooth portable GPS receiver, but that's it.
- Projectors with BT enabled are FREAKING EXPENSIVE. Not to mention they aren't common. I've always wondered what that stray miniusb port on the more common small business models are for...
So why not buy a laptop, you ask?
Well, I already have a PC.
If you're suggesting I buy one, either you have never carried one around before, or you're so rich you can buy the lightest, least bulky ones without burning a hole in your pocket.
*That Sandisk 256/Wifi can't quite contain everything I'd want on my 1gig, leaving my only recourse to be (hopefully) the Eye-Film which is currently only in prototype stage. Sandisk already EOL'd that product anyway.

There are only 2 possibilities to get USB Host:
1. Wait for the WM2005 ROM for Magician, maybe HTC implemented the USB Host driver with it ;-)
2. Wait for HTC Trinity, maybe it has USB Host.
However, both options are not very realistic, because a WLAN USB Stick pulls 500 mA from the battery, so you get about 30 minutes battery life...
An USB Host has to provide power to the connected devices, and this is the reason why we probably won't ever see it on a mass market device.

You think you connect any USB device on that Host and it works? Like printers, scanners etc? Sorry, but you're dreaming. You need drivers for this and they just don't exist. There are no USB GPS mice that work with Pocket PCs and there are no Wifi sticks that work with Pocket PCs, period.
The only thing you could do is connect some mass storage device and use this. Besides that I'm 100% sure that the Magician doesn't support USB Host functionality, period.
So get a new PPC with Wifi and use Wifi disks etc. USB host would be nice but no Phone Edition device that I know of has it.

It would be SOOOOOO nice to connect a harddisk to my magician. A 4GB SD Card cannot store all my MP3s. And I want them all in my Car.

Dandie said:
So get a new PPC with Wifi and use Wifi disks etc. USB host would be nice but no Phone Edition device that I know of has it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, Eten M500 supports it.

You need drivers for this and they just don't exist
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Certain drivers do exist; like the JetCet unofficial ones. You'd also need to load drivers for SD-IO cards as well (IIRC the Sandisk Wifi/Mem combo needed a driver), so drivers are actually a non-issue. What matters is that it can be done.

jackleung said:
Actually, Eten M500 supports it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Magician also supports USB host, because
your BT is attached there. So what? It is the 500mA
current source and the electrical connection to
the USB socket that counts.

Currents not a problem i should think. All USB devices are standard 0.5A supply.. and all USB devices use the same supply.

Any USB cable for connecting Blackstone to PC?

Can I use any standard USB cable for syncronizing the Blackstone with my PC?

I'm sure you can.

fronk1 said:
Can I use any standard USB cable for syncronizing the Blackstone with my PC?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The connector in the Touch HD is a ext-USB but it's compatible with standard mini usb cables (and with my old HTC Universal Car charger and home charger). So you can use any mini usb cables you have (for ex. those usually used for cameras)
The ext-USB standard is required for special headsets like those where you have a minidisplay and buttons for track changing, skip, etc.....
At the moment I don't know if other devices that use ext-USB have been released.
Have fun

Yes the Touch will accept any USB cable, however dont think that the lead provided will work the other way as it does not. Its squared off and will not fit my N95, PSP or any other of the gadgets sitting around

miniusb

I have a question.
I want to buy a BlackStone, but I have plenty mini usb cables
(carchanger, usb from my old phones Wizard, Compact III and Touch)
can i use these on the mini extended usb port or not
Thanks a lot

normal mini usb will work ok for charging, but I couldn't get it to work for sync - pretty sure you need a proper HTC one for that, which has only one corner cut off

TTDegs said:
normal mini usb will work ok for charging, but I couldn't get it to work for sync - pretty sure you need a proper HTC one for that, which has only one corner cut off
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All my "normal" mini usb cables work perfectly for syncing!

q123123an said:
All my "normal" mini usb cables work perfectly for syncing!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same here, I've used a few different cables as well, no problems with any of them.

Works fine with all cables!

I've used 3 different cable and all of them are working perfect.

TTDegs said:
normal mini usb will work ok for charging, but I couldn't get it to work for sync - pretty sure you need a proper HTC one for that, which has only one corner cut off
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Watch out, probably your cable was rather old. I know the problem from GPS-devices, when using old cables (maybe prior to USB 2.0... but did they really have usb mini then??)) the device noticed that it's plugged in - but the computer couldn't see it.

well that's rather good news - thanks everyone
I'll try a selection (I've got a few )
wonder why the official one has the extra corner then

This is why I like this forum,
thanks a lot dudes, tomorrow the blackstone will be mine
so i have not to buy alot cables, im gonna love its screen

Even HTC sells both types of cables, as suitable for both charging and data connection:
http://www.htcaccessorystore.com/uk/p_htc_phone.aspx?i=173502

thanx guys for the info
now i have my HD, its super..... I mean it

hell, I use the charging cable for my PS3 controller to sync my Blackstone! official one from the box is permenantly plugged into the mains charger unit in another room so I don't have to carry the cable to and fro!

Is the HD extremely picky on USB connections?

I have used several WM phones before this, the two last were Atom and Atom Life. But this phone does not want to play ball with the USB extension cables I've been using all the time. First: No, the cables are all right: I can still sync my Atom Life without any problems. And I have used the original USB cable for the HD that comes with the box at the end (even though I've heard that syncing works just as well with a regular mini USB).
But neither a 3 m long extension cable (which is well below the 5 m USB limit) nor plugging it into a USB hub helps. Sometimes I can get a bit further with unticking the "advanced network" part of the USB to PC connection. But not allways. Has anybody here found a solution to that or even had the same problem?

Mine works fine on a Belkin 5 metre extension cable.

I can only sync with the cable that came with the phone. Other mini USB cables (ones that fit but are a different shape) only charge.

barryfell said:
I can only sync with the cable that came with the phone. Other mini USB cables (ones that fit but are a different shape) only charge.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
r u serious?! damn..!!! i've never tried it with the HD. my touch pro used to work perfectly with non-factory mini usb cable...

This happened to my HD.
Phone call to orange later and they insisted on replacing it under insurance.
All they wanted to check was whether the HD and PC would sync. I told them no and the response from the script that they have to work through, was that the phone is marked as "broke" and needs replacing.
In my case I suspect that the USB port may have been damaged when the car charger cable was pulled out accidently in the car with some force. Seems that they are a little delicate, especially with none HTC cables (i.e. without the odd shaped plug with only one corner truncated). I have read that non HTC ones fit a little less snug and can put stress on the board inside the phone when plugging / unplugging.

nickallison said:
Seems that they are a little delicate, especially with none HTC cables (i.e. without the odd shaped plug with only one corner truncated). I have read that non HTC ones fit a little less snug and can put stress on the board inside the phone when plugging / unplugging.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You hit that on the money. I see it as a design flaw as well as a scheme to get people to buy HTC-specific accessories. But you are right, generic cables with the different connector do fit loosely and can cause issues after time if you are not gentle with it. Also, the USB connector itself on the device and internally on the solder points is poorly designed. This doesn't help.

I can sync with any cable, but it seems to be to problems:
1. If the extension is too long, it will fail.
2. If it's run by more than one USB hub it will fail. The first hub is a Toshiba docking station with a one meter cable from the laptop. The second is a D-Link powered USB hub. No matter what cable I use then it won't sync. With the cable connected to the Toshiba docking I can sync both with a regular mini USB and the original cable. Strange thing is that it only works on one of the two the front USB connections and not on one of the four at the rear! Then again Windows isn't supposed to be logical, I guess...

Normal miniusb cable works perfectly for either charging and syncing.
I even had a 7m usb cable (5m and a 2m usb extending cable), worked perfectly for either charging and syncing (I need my phone to be next to my bed, and my PC is like a few meters away from my bed).
Seriously don't know how your HD refuses to work with a cable other than the stock HD USB cable.

Hi,
are you using a custom ROM?
i used all sorts of cables, whatever happens to be lying around, infact i never use the stock one, as this is plugged it at a very inaccesable wall socket for mains charging!
generally my cables go through a hub, and then a 1m extension.
the reason i ask about the ROM is that i have flashed loads of different ROMS, and all worked fine, except one ROM (think it was topix 2.6), where it would only connect for a brief moment before auto-disconnecting. i suspect it was a 'bad flash' as they say, and so if you are using a custom ROM would suggest a re-flash. if not, you could consider a hard reset, or trying a different ROM (perhaps if it the stock ROM it has a 'bad flash' at the factory)
Tom

This thread has been hijacked (I never asked about regular mini USB versus the proprietary HTC version), but if you're asking me, I'm using the latest official HTC version (Norwegian).

mine is not picky at all...

Thank god, I checked with a mini usb that came with my external HDD and it worked perfectly...

I tried 3 other cables and none of them work apart from to charge.
I'll see if it's an issue with using my hub.

barryfell said:
I tried 3 other cables and none of them work apart from to charge.
I'll see if it's an issue with using my hub.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you tried updating usb drivers?

Fallen Spartan said:
Have you tried updating usb drivers?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No i'll try that when I get home.
Thanks

I have this issue with a specific cable on vista64, the phone only charges, but if I connect it to a Ubuntu box, I can sync, share network etc.
I think M$ is the issue in that case.

HD2's data cable.. is it micro USB?

I can't seem to find a usb to "whatever it is" wire selling..
is it a standard micro USB port?

leobox1 said:
I can't seem to find a usb to "whatever it is" wire selling..
is it a standard micro USB port?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes... u r rite... itz a MICRO USB...

But it can't supply power to a USB device, so it can't be used like a PC USB port. It's only good for recharging and syncing.

so if i want to buy an additional wire, i look for a USB to MICRO USB wire right? no need to buy from HTC right?
cause i saw one usb that is smaller but it doesn't fit.. is there a MINI USB port too?
am confused

Stephen Selby said:
But it can't supply power to a USB device, so it can't be used like a PC USB port. It's only good for recharging and syncing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Erm yes it can,

Actually better take the device with you. Sellers here told me there is like 7 different very similar connectors. However this one should be the standard micro USB, which is supposed to be universal charger/sync cable in the future (at least in EU).
And yes, of course, there is mini USB. And there even are more versions of mini USB, for example HTC used their own.

You had better use HTC cables. HD2 is microusb, but not all microusb cables are good for HD2. Like iPhone, it takes a large charging current, and many no brand cables cannot do it. I've got a third party cable that syncs only, but if charged from the PC, the HD2 will say that the charging current is too small. Battery actually drops when I connect HD2 to PC using this cable (because my options set it that backlight is always on when HD2 is connected). Other combinations are OK:
original cable + AC plug: charging OK
original cable + PC: charging OK
third party cable + AC plug: charging OK
third party cable + PC: "insufficient charging current"

Be careful with cables- you'd be better to buy the genuine HTC version.
Many USB/MicroUSB cables are for charging only, and don't have the data pins connected. Thats OK if you just want to charge it while you are away from your main PC or power supply.
You can also buy a miniUSB/MicroUSB adapter for charging using and older miniSUB charger, but again these don't have the data pins connected.

I bought a number of 3rd party USB to microUSB cables a month ago for sync and charging (office, PC, bedside charging), so far so good... no issues (maybe I'm lucky). The OmniaII uses the same connector, so I'm using the HTC car charger to charge both.

I bought Nokia's cable (for E71,N97,etc.) and it work just fine with charging from laptop. much cheaper than HTC in here.

if you are going for the cheapo option...
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_from=R40&_trksid=m38&_nkw=MICRO+USB+SYNC%26+CHARGE+CABLE+for+HTC+HD2+HD+2+Leo+T8585
i got a couple from ebay - arrived the next day. - charge/sync fine.

charger from iPhone
The iPhone charger coud be used for charging HD2. Just plug the microUSB cord instead of iPhones and ... voila. The same outputs

N86-8megapixel cable doesnt work..
So I managed to leave my HTC cable at work (2 days after getting the Telstra HD2 in OZ) and now I am on 4-5 days leave from work and really want to tinker with my phone. I think I may end up having to go back to work to collect the HTC cable - as below... challenge to get non-HTC cable to work.
I found that my wife's N86-8megapixel nokia has a similar micro-usb cable.
When connected to the PC the phone starts charging and the PC does the "doo-doop" sound a "appears" to connect to the phone, but active sync cannot detect the phone \ sync.
I see others have had success with nokia cables - I am wondering if there is something wierd going on.