Hi,
there is something I have been really wondering about lately, and that is wether the HD's touch screen is multi touch capable by hardware, e.g. the hardware is able to identify several touches at the same time.
Now, if you do the following test, start Notes, and press two fingers at the same time on the screen (writing a note with touch). You will notice that the line is drawn in the middle between your fingers. I then started to think that if the screen isn't mulitouch capable by hardware, the point/line would either choose one finger and stick to that, or jump between those two fingers, not draw a point perfectly in between of those two. As it looks now, it seems that the point that is sent with the mouse click event, is a calculated point based on your fingers(1). A calculation that might have been done in the touch driver.
Now there might also exist another reasonable explanation to this, and that is when you press several fingers you press down a larger area of the screen at the same time(2). The point is then calculated to the center of this area. However, this does not realy fit in with the technical design of a resistive touch screen.
I have tried to explain in figures, look at the attachements.
Now, if scenario 1 should be the case, then there might be a chance to reverse engieneer the touch driver and create a multi touch capable phone right?
If anyone have more understanding on this field, please correct me. Maybe I can get some sleep after all.
Sorry for any typos, it's early in the morning..
Get no sleep...
skov82 said:
Hi,
there is something I have been really wondering about lately, and that is wether the HD's touch screen is multi touch capable by hardware, e.g. the hardware is able to identify several touches at the same time.
Now, if you do the following test, start Notes, and press two fingers at the same time on the screen (writing a note with touch). You will notice that the line is drawn in the middle between your fingers. I then started to think that if the screen isn't mulitouch capable by hardware, the point/line would either choose one finger and stick to that, or jump between those two fingers, not draw a point perfectly in between of those two. As it looks now, it seems that the point that is sent with the mouse click event, is a calculated point based on your fingers(1). A calculation that might have been done in the touch driver.
Now there might also exist another reasonable explanation to this, and that is when you press several fingers you press down a larger area of the screen at the same time(2). The point is then calculated to the center of this area. However, this does not realy fit in with the technical design of a resistive touch screen.
I have tried to explain in figures, look at the attachements.
Now, if scenario 1 should be the case, then there might be a chance to reverse engieneer the touch driver and create a multi touch capable phone right?
If anyone have more understanding on this field, please correct me. Maybe I can get some sleep after all.
Sorry for any typos, it's early in the morning..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a QVGA Titan and have noticed the same thing.
Also, say on TF3D hold down your finger on the home tab and then put another finger on the tab on the other side of the screen while still holding the home tab and it will go to the tab between them. Also if you slowly release one of the fingers it will cycle through the tabs....
dwizzy130
Related
Anyone else notice that the edges of the screen on the cmda diamond, cdma pro, and the HD seem to be MUCH less responsive than the screens of previous devices?
I "miss" the exit and start menu buttons pretty often and its pretty annoying lol.
Also the notification/title bar area plus other buttons along the bottom and side.
The rest of the screen is more responsive certainly than say the vogue, mogul, diamond or tp. But its the edges of this and the last 2 mentioned devices that get me..
Well I also feel it's less responsive, but not so much actually. Besides this is caused by the technology of the touch screen.
pozytywny said:
Well I also feel it's less responsive, but not so much actually. Besides this is caused by the technology of the touch screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You mean the edges or the whole thing? The main part I feel is more responsive...
Edge responisiveness depends highly on screen calibration. Try to recalibrate screen more precisely, I think situation should improve ...
kosta0955 said:
Edge responisiveness depends highly on screen calibration. Try to recalibrate screen more precisely, I think situation should improve ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey thanks a lot. Thought the same thing myself.
Re-calibrated as accurately as I possibly could.
Still no go. I would really like someone else to try this. Take out your stylus even and press in the very corner of the X-button...you get nothing.
Sort of fix: I found that if you hold your press just a little longer it registers (much better) though I'm not quite convinced that it's still normal nor complete.
jim256 said:
Still no go. I would really like someone else to try this. Take out your stylus even and press in the very corner of the X-button...you get nothing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't see any problem in pressing X-button on my Touch HD. I had similar problem like yours using right vertical scrollbar and recalibration helped, so I though it might help you too, but unfortunately it seem this ain't the same problem
kosta0955 said:
I don't see any problem in pressing X-button on my Touch HD. I had similar problem like yours using right vertical scrollbar and recalibration helped, so I though it might help you too, but unfortunately it seem this ain't the same problem
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm...I wonder if I should try to get it replaced under warranty.
I would want to, but I have noticed the same problem in a sprint diamond in the store, a sprint touch pro in a store, and a friends sprint touch pro.
What do you (guys) think? Replacement? It could get really annoying...not being able to close out of things. Right now since its new and awesome and stuff I'm kind of trying to ignore it or whatever but...hmm idk.
The fact that the screen is less responsive near the edges is caused by an inherent technical limitation of resistive screens. The screen has no real bezel, and thus, the screen is attached to the body frame right where it ends: at the absolute edges of the screen Where it is attached, it cannot move. A little further away from the edge it can move (eg be pressed down) but this requires more force since you need to bend the screen much closer to the fixed edges than when you would press the center of the screen, which bends the easiest.
Don't know if this makes sense, but it's like a window... Hitting it in the centre will break it much easier than when hitting it close to the edges, since the glass bends much further/easier at the center, so the same force will have more effect.
Anyway, resistive screens have this problems, capacitive screens do not, obviously, since they do not rely on pressure.
If hitting the OK/Close button is a problem for you, just use the hardware button below the screen, the one with the arrow on it. It does exactly the same thing I believe. With 'I believe' I mean I assigned OK/close to that button using AEButtonPlus, which should be the default behavior for pressing it once. I find this to be much more convenient than trying to hit that tiny X/OK button.
nin2thevoid said:
The fact that the screen is less responsive near the edges is caused by an inherent technical limitation of resistive screens. The screen has no real bezel, and thus, the screen is attached to the body frame right where it ends: at the absolute edges of the screen Where it is attached, it cannot move. A little further away from the edge it can move (eg be pressed down) but this requires more force since you need to bend the screen much closer to the fixed edges than when you would press the center of the screen, which bends the easiest.
Don't know if this makes sense, but it's like a window... Hitting it in the centre will break it much easier than when hitting it close to the edges, since the glass bends much further/easier at the center, so the same force will have more effect.
Anyway, resistive screens have this problems, capacitive screens do not, obviously, since they do not rely on pressure.
If hitting the OK/Close button is a problem for you, just use the hardware button below the screen, the one with the arrow on it. It does exactly the same thing I believe. With 'I believe' I mean I assigned OK/close to that button using AEButtonPlus, which should be the default behavior for pressing it once. I find this to be much more convenient than trying to hit that tiny X/OK button.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey thanks for your informative opinion.
This theory seems to fit, except it doesn't quite explain nor fit with these 2 things:
1. I can apply a pretty decent amount of pressure in the corner with no results whatsoever. But I can get full results if I apply less pressure for about .5-1 second rather than just tapping.
2. I have never seen any evidence of this on any other resistive touch devices (vogue, titan).
Why in the world do these resistive touch screens have to suck so bad anyway? The HD is the best I've seen lately, but does HTC just suck at it, or is it everyone (haven't owned a non-htc ts device for a yr or so, and that was a treo where I didn't really notice sensitivity).
My dad has a 3+ yr old Dell Axim X5 and that screen is AMAZINGLY sensitive. Responds to stylus and is too old to be capacitive. But it is literally 100% as responsive / sensitive as the screen of the iPhone. When I used it I couldn't believe it. You had to be VERY delicate and careful and trying hard to touch that screen and not have it know.
I've got my HTC magic last week and order a stylus pen to use with it. The problem is that the phone only respond to finger tap, and I must be holding it. If it is, for example, on the car support and I tap it with my finger it does not respond to touch. Does anyone else have this problem?
Thank you!
The HTC Magic has a captive touch screen, these types of touchscreens only work to the touch of the finger and hence will not work with a stylus.
I also have this problem, not that with the stylus ( I know it can´t be used with stylus). When laying the phone on a tabele an using with only my fingers the respons is very bad. When holding the phone in my hand it´s perfect.
Anyone knows why???
Instead of tapping the screen try a light press, it does not respond to a tap or quick jab with the finger. Go Here and you can read how the Capacitive Touchscreen works.
Clinton
Best thing that i've found to do, is make a circuit with the phone:
When its flat or in car holder if you make your thumb touch the bottom of the phone (near the roller ball) then use your finger to do the action required this seems to work!
Don't know why, but it does!
If anyone noticed, if you hold your Magic in one hand and use the other hand to point etc, the sensitivity sort of goes down.
Using the fingers (or rather thumb) of the same hand in which you hold your Magic would produce an insanely much better result!
atan.ismail said:
If anyone noticed, if you hold your Magic in one hand and use the other hand to point etc, the sensitivity sort of goes down.
Using the fingers (or rather thumb) of the same hand in which you hold your Magic would produce an insanely much better result!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's due to the orientation of your fingers. Again, it's due to the capacitive screen. Using your thumb on the same hand that's holding the phone, you have more surface area touching on the screen where as if you "point" with the finger (I'm presuming your index) with the empty hand, the surface area is less. You can do a simple test. Press the screen like you were pointing at it then do the same but this time, press it like you were giving your finger print but not as wide.
right now........I HATE this phone
the screen is so sensitive it's ruining it for me
even a bit of dust makes it impossible to type a text message. there must be a way to decrease screen sensitivity or it's going back. I'm so pissed off with it right now
Sorry. Think it quite funny.
People have been complaining how insensitive the resistive screen. Now there is a capacitive screen its the opposite.
I hope I don't eat my words in a few days when I get mine.
Quite a few people are complaining about the over sensitive screen then changing there minds after a few days.
How is the dust making it hard?
I love the screen, and tipping is super fast for me.
Best phone I ever have.
The screen is amazing.
Much easier to type than on resesitive screen. you just need to get used to it.
have you guys (found) any videos of typing on the hd2? Wonder what it looks like and if you can become as fluent as with a hw-keyboard?
I have same problem here. I was using Touch HD before and now I can't type anything without making mistakes. T9 helps out but when it comes to password it's getting painfull. When I'm pressing letter on on-screen keyboard I quite often press other keys around. I guess it will take quite some time to get used to it, I don't think sensitivity can be changed.
P.S.
Guys from pocketnow claims that HD2 has about the same sensitivity as Pro2 and definitely less then iPhone. If it so I can't imagine how people are able to use iPhone
we have all been used to resistive till now. you'll adapt dont worry, its a change that we all now have to go through.
i have the ipod touch so i dont think it will be troublesome for me to addapt to the new screen.
after a week with this phone, i love that screen... it is very hard to adapt first few days, but than, everything is so great... it is much better like resistive screen... typing is super fast, sliding is easy...
yes i am also having problems with the high sensitivity, but i'm coming from solid keys so no real surprises! starting to get used to it now. I reckon OP you'll get used to it to. Give it a week or so!
You'll get used to it and never look back, I have an i8910 at the moment (HD2 arriving in a couple of days), which is also capacitive and it just takes a little while to adjust.
Fine here too, although the Opera "flick scroll" is too sensitive in a way - it always seems to scroll too far for me, at least a whole screen, so not as useful as the iPhone equivalent.
Anybody know if that is tweakable somehow?
There are a few practical steps I have found that have minimised the problem (for me) while we restive users come to terms with the capacitive screens we have yearned for:
Don't press too hard - it's easily done in frustration but it actually makes things worse
Align the screen - I don't think the factory calibration is too clever (this made a big difference for me)
Switch to a different keyboard. After labouring with the default keyboard and finding myself in a similar place to the OP, I reinstalled my trusty TouchPal and all is well again
Thse worked for me - hope they are of use to others
kolomnik said:
Guys from pocketnow claims that HD2 has about the same sensitivity as Pro2 and definitely less then iPhone. If it so I can't imagine how people are able to use iPhone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same sensitivity as Pro2 ?, lol. They probably got a broken sample.
On the Pro2 I was easily able to put my finger on the screen without a click being registered. With the HD2 we got confirmations this is impossible, as soon as your skin touches the device, no matter how lightly you brought your finger to the screen, a click will be registered.
I used to have a Touch HD beforehand, and after getting the HD2 I noticed I would make a large amount of mistakes, and that typing was extremely hard (especially on the go).
But like others have said, give it a couple of days and you will start to get used to it. I'm definately getting the hang of it. But I would strongly recommend you enable T9. Getting the hang of typing on a capacitive screen comes naturally.
And try out the horizontal keyboard; turn the HD2 sideways and the horizontal keybord will be shown to you. You may find it a bit easier to type on that instead.
This is the best screen i have in any windows mobile, the reason i had an iphone was the capasitive screen it has but now because of this screen i switched to the HD2 and i am more than happy and i don't understand why people complain about this screen its simply FANTASTIC.
I think I can uderstand them, it is beacuse we are used to looking exactly where we are going to click, now, with the capacitive screen, we have to use our finger to do it (wich obviously wont let us see waht we are clicking on). I was a little bit stressed yesterday that I received the phone, but right now I am getting used to it. I am doing now a slide soft motion with the screen, and not the old press hard movement I used to with my HD.
I think it is great, let give it at least a few days so we can get confortable with it.
Wow....
I was so looking forward to this device after my Kaiser/XperiaX1/Rhodium. My biggest gripe was always the speed, then the screen size, after all.
But this thing is next to useless. The capacitive touch screen is HORRIBLE, and the lack of a stylus so annoying that words cannot describe. I find that I constantly end up with apps closing when I try to press buttons near the top, etc.
Its impossible to type with, its so inaccurate. Maybe its unfair of me, coming from devices with keyboards but even so, I could type on the screen of my rhodium soo much better.
I guess that boils down to "capacitive screen" too, I guess I'll be going back to my Rhodium and waiting for a snapdragon or tegra powered system with a resistive screen.... Calibrating this thing makes no useful difference.
Sorry for the rant, more than a little frustrated with my £500 paperweight atm.
Nemeth782 said:
Wow....
I was so looking forward to this device after my Kaiser/XperiaX1/Rhodium. My biggest gripe was always the speed, then the screen size, after all.
But this thing is next to useless. The capacitive touch screen is HORRIBLE, and the lack of a stylus so annoying that words cannot describe. I find that I constantly end up with apps closing when I try to press buttons near the top, etc.
Its impossible to type with, its so inaccurate. Maybe its unfair of me, coming from devices with keyboards but even so, I could type on the screen of my rhodium soo much better.
I guess that boils down to "capacitive screen" too, I guess I'll be going back to my Rhodium and waiting for a snapdragon or tegra powered system with a resistive screen.... Calibrating this thing makes no useful difference.
Sorry for the rant, more than a little frustrated with my £500 paperweight atm.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All I can think is you must have really FAT fingers becuase the screen on this baby is amazing and typing on it is amazing. It's a million times better than the iPhone.
I haven't ever used an iphone for more than a few mins.
I don't think the issue is finger size as I can type better on the screen of my rhodium which is smaller, but resistive. Its more the fact that I touch a button and something happens over the other side of the screen (maybe a slight exaggeration) and apps like Resco file explorer leave me trying to press the same button 20 times before I get it due to lack of Stylus.
Its not usable, its just frustrating.
Nemeth782 said:
I haven't ever used an iphone for more than a few mins.
I don't think the issue is finger size as I can type better on the screen of my rhodium which is smaller, but resistive. Its more the fact that I touch a button and something happens over the other side of the screen (maybe a slight exaggeration) and apps like Resco file explorer leave me trying to press the same button 20 times before I get it due to lack of Stylus.
Its not usable, its just frustrating.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just give it a day or two. You'll never want to have an other device...
I really disagree with you on this. I think the screen and the responsiveness is superb to type on. Top of marked for sure. Beats iPhone and Hero imo.
The touch screen on HD2 just like a sexy girl - soooo sensitive.
beating the iPhone and Hero doesn't mean much to me as I haven't done much with either beyond a quick fiddle, but we are all held to believe that capacitive is better, so I was expecting an improvement on my old phones which have all been Resistive.
Maybe mine is broken I guess...
Still, I eventually managed to make a link to the task manager on the start menu. It feels like I fight with it for 30 mins and if I am lucky, I happen to get something done along the way.
If only it was like just about every other HTC phone I have used and had the little drop down task manager on the home screen where the X would usually be...
Its all down to
Calibration.
Ensure you calibrate the screen and calibrate the screen how you tend to use it.
I calibrated the screen with my thumb while holding it in the same hand. Scary but for its size and sensitivity it works great.
Be careful about calibrating with your finger then expect to type great with your thumb. Works okay but you will need some patience. You will get better results with calibrating with your thumb in my situation.
^Agree, re-calibrate your screen & see the differents. If you still want to sell, then put it in the Marketplace...
Try this fix.. For me it was a 100% improvement.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=585511
If only it was like just about every other HTC phone I have used and had the little drop down task manager on the home screen where the X would usually be...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's a tweak for that already [that puts it back there] - think it's a Dutty job - have a look in the other forum on apps
And BTW - I've owned an iPhone and many HTC touhscreens and I feel your pain - I too have issues with this one typing is pretty inaccurate (typically it seems to trigger the key blelow that which I'm typing on) and sometimes it seems to just not recognise a press at all....I end up jabbing it so hard with my finger sometimes in frustration! I'm becoming more used to it but it is a little dissapointing, given the iPhones screen (for accuracy and responsiveness) is certainly thus far better than this one
Guys, remember, this screen is going to take time to get used to. Capacitive is a totally different beast to resistive.
And one day is not long enough to fully get used to a device. I am having a few small problems with typing (mostly because it's so sensitive and I'm not used to it!).
Once I get used to it, I don't think there will be any problems. I can already type faster on the HD2 on screen keyboard than I could on the X1 hardware keyboard!
Nemeth782 said:
If only it was like just about every other HTC phone I have used and had the little drop down task manager on the home screen where the X would usually be...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Dutty's fix for this didn't work for me, but this alternative did, and there's a few other tasty treats on the post too...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=4947950&postcount=1
Original Poster's phone could be faulty. I had a demo of an HD2 the other day, and the keyboard was going completely mad: touching the backspace key, for example, resulted in a flurry of detected key-presses not just of the backspace key itself but of all keys around it in all directions. I mentioned this to the guy in the shop and he said that the reason why they had put that one aside for demo purposes was precisely that they couldn't get the screen properly aligned/calibrated on it, and that the other models they had didn't have the same problem. He might have been lying, of course....
Hi, I'm a big fan of the HD2 but in the last two weeks, since i own this device, i'm getting confused by some screen imput behavour that i will present you.
I want to figure out if this "screenbugs" i have to fight with every day, are normal or a hardwaredefect. To make you guys an imagine of what i mean, i uploaded some youtube videos for each bug.
1. The first one i call: The painting edge
This bug is only present if i not have installed the less sensitive CAB from this forum.
Explaination:
Many of you have notice that the glass of the screen doesn't fit exactly in the case of the device. The right bottom of the glass protrude a very little. Then i lightly press on this position, the screen notice a press on the right top...as you can see in notes on my youtube video:
Video 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c49x9vB4bzQ
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Beforce you say...my device doesn't having any of the following bugs, REMEMBER, This bugs are not present every second. Sometimes i can use the device for 30min without having some of this.
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2. The Electrocardiography
This bug, i think could be the reason for the following bugs.
Explaination: Trying to draw a straight line an you think you device will get a heart attack soon.
On the half of my second try you can see how the device suddenly works normal again.
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t54m1dSLnV8
3. The shaking Screen
Explaination:
I have notice that some other guys have this bug too. You can see this on every scrollable screen, like opera, IE, zoomed pictures, the manila tab, startmenu...etc. etc.
Best seen on minute 0:54 in my video.
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hIE_wV4djs
4.The non pressed key
Explaination:
You are cofused about keyboard reaction while writing a text message? You type an "a" and getting a "t"? Than you have "the non pressed key" bug how i call it.
you have to watch on some key input where my finger is totally out of range. I don't mean the fault input next to the key i pressed...
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B1GiyMp_O4
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There is a fifth bug i didn't get on video yet because it is very rarely.
I had have this bug only 5-6 times since i own this device, but it sucks realy hard.
I call it
5. The self-typing keyboard
Explaination:
Then i'm typing some text sometimes the keyboard begins to typing without having the finger one the touchscreen. it can be have a duration of 5-10 seconds or 20 letters/numbers.
It can also be watched, without keyboardaction. Then the screen scrolls wild in any direction without any finger on screen.
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fdXU8SoPTg from htcracer211
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If someone can tell me if i can embed the youtube videos in this forum...
Go get a replacement, the screen is perfect. Although I admit it does not fit correctly but it is great. I only need the earpiece fix
please watch the videos before you comment anything...
...You're too much electrostatically charged...
...Or something of electrostatic is in the range of your device...
But it's like your touch panel is faulty. Get a replacement (warranty rules)
Have brought it back today...but couldn't get a replacement...no devices
tryed all your test and get no errors on screen, electro worked perfecly, keyboard keeps presing same key without leaving the range, and i cant notice any shaking effect.
So probably your screen is faulty , change your device as fast as you can matte
I have brought it already back, but it seems to be that others have all my listed bugs too. take a look at the poll results. On another forum a guy has tested the "painting edge" on 3 devices after he saw my video and all devices have this bug!!!!
Hey Guys,
I have the first 3 bugs on my HD2, too. But with BSB Tweaks 1.31 i solved the first 2 one by activating the option "Screen Sensitivity".
Hi,
If you look in the sticky thread here somewhere in the LEO section about tweaks and registry changes there is a topic on reducing the sensitivity of the screen.
I think what's happening here is the electric current in your fingers is playing havoc with the screen when your fingers are either close to or on the screen.
Let us know if this helps you.
WB
whow, that's a lot of problems for one device.
I have the "non pressed key issue" : (that's annoying as hell, typing a message is a heavy burden now) and the shakey screen. should i bring my handset back or try the tweaks... I didn't expect this from an 600€ handset
wacky.banana said:
Hi,
...
I think what's happening here is the electric current in your fingers is playing havoc with the screen when your fingers are either close to or on the screen.
Let us know if this helps you.
WB
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When i was made this video my finger was always with the same pressure on the touchscreen. It was not close...and not weak on screen...normal pressure. And you can see at the middle of my second try where i'm drawing lines in notes that the screen suddenly works normal.
I also wrote in my first thread, that this bug is not every second present...but then it's present its also the reason for some other input errors, like the "non pressed key" i think.
Quick question: How much pressure do you apply to the display (what is "normal"?)? Scince your display is reacting weird to pressure on the bottom right corner, any pressure might be linked to erroreous behavior. Do the shaking related errors remain when you don't press at allk?
to the OP: what ROM are you on ? have you tried 1.48 ?
I can recommende you to use screenprotector film and install cab for less sensitive.
But even without this all I had not this problem Looks like your sreen very sensitive for electrocharging and not have normal ground contact. This is way to warranty service.
lmao >.< sorry mate but get a replacement NOW!! I've never got these problems, everything works smooth and properly, sorry about that...
do u have a screen protector? i am wondering if the screen protector does anything bad to it...
You have the exact same problems I had when I first got my device, the main concern was the device having its own mind and making random key presses, even without you touching it or even being near it. I got my unit replaced and the new one works like a charm.
I noticed today that MY PERFECT SCREEN starting acting weird !!!! Its jittering !!! Damnnnn !!!!
I'm totally spooked by your video's!!!
I personally never experienced these bugs so I spend the last half our replicating your bugs.
The only thing I noticed was that Electrocardiography but I think you have your finger too flat on the screen (it has a too large surface area) because when I write on the screen as if my finger where a pencil (straight up instead of flat) the screen is working as it should!
I think you must have a faulty device. Perhaps try to flash it with 1.48 if you haven't done that already.
spaanplaat said:
The only thing I noticed was that Electrocardiography but I think you have your finger too flat on the screen (it has a too large surface area) because when I write on the screen as if my finger where a pencil (straight up instead of flat) the screen is working as it should!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On iPhone with exactly the same finger it draws almost a precise straight line. This problem comes directly from HD2's screen, not from fingers, weather, humidity and so on.