Database Users

Letter to HTC preventing us running software on a legally unlocked HD2

Dear Sirs,
I have a question on your policy of locking the phone. Currently I have received my unlock code for my HD2 from my operator Bouygues but you do not allow me to update the software of MY PHONE. Let me make it clear to you: I am the owner of the phone and if I like to change the software even with a risk I can do that because I am the OWNER of the phone. I bought it legally, I got the unlock code from Bouygues so I am entitled to do with my phone what I want to do.
I can even smash it or throw it through a window of the HTC offices if I want to do so. If you do not agree and state that it is not my phone your phone is actually returning to your premises in a somewhat peculiar way. But since it is not my phone but yours this is your problem.
To get this clear: I am willing to go to court and start a class action case against HTC for deliberately and intentionally taking away my liberty as a consumer to choose to use the software in any language I want on a device that I own.
I had a similar issue with Nvidia over providing notebook drivers for their graphical cards and you can check: they provide notebook drivers for their cards now.
I will publish this letter also on xda-developers.com because HTC is illegally limiting me access to the phone I own and I have any rights to do with it what I want to do.
So I ask you to correct this issue and provide an update as soon as possible to prevent me from starting a class action suet against HTC.
Looking forward for your reaction,
Yours faithfully
Roger

It's got nothing to do with HTC, that's your operator that has locked the rom, and unlock codes have nothing at all to do with rom lock/branding. It's all your operator, and you entered a contract with them when you got the phone from them, and in that contract they are allowed to lock the rom so that you have to get updates through them
edit - and besides, , , 1 - install hspl - 2 - flash chosen rom - 3 - remove hspl.
Takes ten minutes, warranty is still valid, and rom is changed, so no biggie.

yeah talk to ur operator not HTC lol
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Do you actually have the kahonas to follow through with a class action suit because they are not scared they are fighting and taking apple out for copywrite infringement and htc also doesn't give a hoot about xda-developers.
Not startin an arguement with ya just wondering ifyour actually going to go through with it because I have a feeling what they will do is send you a letter back telling you to buzz off to get you to take them to court cuz they don't have the time to deal with consumers.

rogerone said:
Dear Sirs,
I have a question on your policy of locking the phone. Currently I have received my unlock code for my HD2 from my operator Bouygues but you do not allow me to update the software of MY PHONE. Let me make it clear to you: I am the owner of the phone and if I like to change the software even with a risk I can do that because I am the OWNER of the phone. I bought it legally, I got the unlock code from Bouygues so I am entitled to do with my phone what I want to do.
I can even smash it or throw it through a window of the HTC offices if I want to do so. If you do not agree and state that it is not my phone your phone is actually returning to your premises in a somewhat peculiar way. But since it is not my phone but yours this is your problem.
To get this clear: I am willing to go to court and start a class action case against HTC for deliberately and intentionally taking away my liberty as a consumer to choose to use the software in any language I want on a device that I own.
I had a similar issue with Nvidia over providing notebook drivers for their graphical cards and you can check: they provide notebook drivers for their cards now.
I will publish this letter also on xda-developers.com because HTC is illegally limiting me access to the phone I own and I have any rights to do with it what I want to do.
So I ask you to correct this issue and provide an update as soon as possible to prevent me from starting a class action suet against HTC.
Looking forward for your reaction,
Yours faithfully
Roger
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe you own the phone, but look again: you DO NOT own the software that is installed on it.
You only have a 'usage right' to Windows mobile. You are not allowed to resell it, to are not allowed to change it. Even if you buy a second hand phone, you are not a legal user of the OS that was installed on it!
Think twice. You suspect/expect you have all those rights, but YOU DON'T.

Hey, do post the reply you get though.

Without going into legal details-
I think you are right to be unhappy-
However, yes, one would need to carefully read the agreement and licence thing-
But you are right on 1 point: if HTC does not upload their very buggy ROMS for this HTC HD2 quietly brilliant (very quietly) device, then someone needs to do it.
So unless you are sure about the legal details, we should complain to HTC about their numerous bugs and poor support we receive (at least I received that...), and also their lack of updates.
Or the complete lack of information as for the actual content of the new releases (they are all update SMS features): the last one actually moved things around.
I reported it to support but as usual with corporate crap they don't give a sh1te about it.

WHAT???
Please try throwing your phone through htc's office window and let us know how you get on!

HTC ownership
Thanks for all the replies. It worked with NVIDIA though.
Going right away to HTC is the best way. HTC is limiting this technically (remember the nice HTC logo when the update starts).
I don't think HTC's case will hold it in court. HTC is only the owner of the skin and nowhere in the license agreement of Windows Mobile is written that HTC can apply these limitations on software they are licensing themselves. Windows Mobile is made for being upgraded and HTC has no right to limit this feature. HTC is even distributing free upgrades to the next version.
This is a nice case for Nelie Smit Kroes. Remember Apple is under investigation too. The EU will follow.
Roger

Some of you obviously have nothing better to do with your time............

I feel sorry for the HTC customer service reps that get winning emails about people throwing phones through their office windows.

onslaught86 said:
I feel sorry for the HTC customer service reps that get winning emails about people throwing phones through their office windows.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I feel sorry for the poor office worker who ends up getting hit by a flying HD2!
I think the OP might find it to be "his problem" when he ends up facing a criminal damage/assault charge.....
Not that I think this guy would actually throw his phone through their window...
I would enjoy reading that in the news though............

even of htc has nothing in the ts and cs about use of software they do reservethe right to block you from doing certain things with it. until you paid in full for an unlock code. than softwarewould be tmobile

sherlockpwnz said:
even of htc has nothing in the ts and cs about use of software they do reservethe right to block you from doing certain things with it. until you paid in full for an unlock code. than softwarewould be tmobile
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
even then the unlock code doesn't unlock you from the OS licensing. All it does is untether you from that network, nothing at all connected to software licensing, they still stand, it just covers network useage.

Wow, the spirit of the users of XDA-Developers has changed over the years...... the OP has other options than what he outlines in his letter to HTC. I would have thought he joined XDA-Developers to explore these options. But, certainly the OP will enlighten us on HTC's answer. A good guess is that the answer will mince words even less than HTC's response to the Apple complaint, but at any rate, it should be most informative.
It is a quagmire of legal worms to wade through corporate IPR law between HTC's IPR, Microsoft's IPR, and the code of a carrier, which I assume also has much IPR attached.
I should hate to think that a talented HTC employee may be physically endangered by a flying HD2 hurled by a user who was not totally clear on all the issues.
In fairness, the OP should, if he must hurl HTC phones around, hurl it at HTC headquarters in Taiwan. After he learns where the restrictions come in to place, and he has actually traveled to Taiwan for his hurling, well, why, waste a trip to Formosa? He can hurl his HD2 through my window, and I will take proper care of it for him from that point on until it is replaced by a new super duper Windows Phone 7 that will have more restrictions. The OP can then start finding who places restrictions on that new OS.

The op wants to explore the legal way to get HTC to move on things.
1) the customer rep, as some of you said, is definitely NOT a real HTC employee. They are dumbs slaves customer service "layer of crap". --> they don't care
2) To make "them" move (ie anyone with the power to make a decision at HTC's) the only way is to sue them. Of course it will be long, hard, etc...
3) I find "funny" that everyone analyses what the OP said, but are not commenting on the real problem: the HTC HD2 is buggy/
Ok there's some custom rom available, I haven't tried yet (scared to screw my work phone)
BUT it does not excuse that they are giving up on their customers/
I used money to contact "customer service" to find out that i'm screwed with that buggy device.
That's definitely not a good and decent way of caring for their customer. Especially when their already outdated and "deprecated" device cost more than 500euros...
I don't expect "HTC" to provide an excellent device capable of everything, but that it's without consequent bugs is a minimum-
I'm not sure if the OP is in the right or now regarding the legal options he has, or if he actually have the right to complain about that "rom/licence thing"- But I know I heard the same scepticism, cowardism and critics when I mentionned I would sue DELL.
I did it, won, got money and also a brand new laptop...
I'm saying maybe we should listen and evaluate what legal arguments he/she has...instead of commenting passively-
Which of course is fine for some who are using custom roms (criminals in the eyes of HTC, those won't be crying if one day HTC finds them and sue them-even if its really really unlikely)

Am sorry but your letter is shocking rubbish. It makes very little sense so do not be suprised if you do not get a reply.

jagger2k said:
Am sorry but your letter is shocking rubbish. It makes very little sense so do not be suprised if you do not get a reply.
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Ho!
The original post was the actual letter sent to HTC??
yes you need much more than that to achieve our objectives...!!

htchd2sucks said:
Ho!
yes you need much more than that to achieve our objectives...!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Our objectives?
Is this the start of some kind of anti-htc rebel alliance?
Uniforms and secret handshakes??.......
"One hand washes the other"
Ive got an idea....... anyone who's dissatisfied with their HD2's can send them to me...........
because I want another one........

hey guys so I felt this might be related. It is to my opinion.
community.htc.com/na/htc-forums/f/87/p/3611/14956.aspx#14956
If no one is aware HTC is trying to stop online dev communities from posting the roms for those phones and cooking them. I think this goes hand in hand with the purchase of the phone and being given an unlock code but not being able to use whatever software you want.
I have posted my opinion and I think that we all should do that same. not saying to start a consumer to corporate flaming war but to make it known to htc that online dev communities are keeping htc afloat because they don't offer for example what xda offers.

A Discussion with Google??

I want to start this discussion because I haven't seen it anywhere and I read several Android forums. I love the platform and it's "openess" but it seems that requirements from Google fall just short of making this the best platform ever for handsets.
We are all screaming at Motorola about the signed bl but we aren't focusing enough on the greater issue. The Android license from Google seems to allow this or maybe it is less specific to Google than to some other entity but I don't speak lawyerese so i'm not sure. Anyway, here is what I keep reading from Motorola...
"The use of open source software, such as the Linux kernel or the Android platform, in a consumer device does not require the handset running such software to be open for re-flashing. We comply with the licenses, including GPLv2, for each of the open source packages in our handsets"
My point of discussion is this, why aren't we asking Google what they can do? Why can't Google simply state that "we will not allow our software to be damaged in this way"? Why do they allow Verizon, at&t, Motorola, HTC or anyone else manipulate their software in a way that brings so much resentment? Is it not in Google's best interest to force this platform to remain open? I realize this is a double edged sword because open means people can do what they want, which holds true for companies also but I think that everyone realizes that Google's intent was that this would benefit everyone, not just the companies.
Also, everyone seems to forget that HTC is messing around with trying to lock down the NAND. Just because geniuses get past the protection doesn't mean that HTC isn't trying. If the Droid X is a huge success, even with this restriction in place, then what makes any of you think that the rest will not follow suit?

Because open means that you can do whatever you want with it. There is nothing stopping anyone from using it, modifying it for their own uses, and putting it in any device that would support it. That's why a company can strip down all of Google stuff from it and put Bing if they want to, and Google wouldn't be able to complain. The whole point of open and free software is that you compete by actually being the best at something. You keep Google stuff in Android because well, they work best.
Now, when you put Android in a device you manufacture, you do have the rights to do whatever you want with the device. This seems to be a hardware protection on top of the software ones. You know how DRM'd mp3 stop working? well, it's not much different, except that now there is physical damage.
True, these measures defeat the whole purpose of being open, but what the heck. Being truly open means making a great product, and then not complaining when someone grabs it and beats you with it. You have are always competing to deliver the best product, and that's why open is awesome.
Who was it that said: "I can't agree with what you are saying, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"?

Open goes both ways. The company (Motorola) has every right to lock down the bootloader and prevent others from flashing.
You guys are looking at it as if Motorola did this to prevent people from flashing custom roms. The real reason they did it was to prevent others from stealing their rom and porting it to another phone. If you like the "ninjablur" UI, you need to buy the DroidX.

Ryan Frawley said:
Open goes both ways. The company (Motorola) has every right to lock down the bootloader and prevent others from flashing.
You guys are looking at it as if Motorola did this to prevent people from flashing custom roms. The real reason they did it was to prevent others from stealing their rom and porting it to another phone. If you like the "ninjablur" UI, you need to buy the DroidX.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, I don't agree. I'm pretty sure one could extract those widgets if you really wanted to. (They "Ain't all that" if you ask me. - And yes, I did buy an X yesterday and love it. Just ain't crazy about those widgets).
I think the real reason this is locked down is to prevent custom ROM/Root access to enable tethering. There are other issues I'm sure, but at the top of the list is to protect that revenue Big Red is trying to generate.
As to Google 'Stopping' the carriers from locking this down, please understand that if the carriers can't protect their revenue streams, they simply won't allow the phones on their network, and that would hinder the growth of the OS in general.
Don't take any of my words as endorsement of VZW/Moto actions. I'll be first in line to flash/root my phone when/if its ever possible. I'm just a realist. VZW wants $20/month for WiFi Tether. They are going to do as much as reasonably possible to keep you from doing that for free.
In a related note, 2.2 Froyo does tethering natively. I expect this to be crippled/disabled when we get our update in a couple of months.

I don't agree with the idea that companies would stop supporting the platform. The Droid has been a cash cow for verizon and it is an open book. Google could easily ask that their platform remain open for all to enjoy.
Beyond that, if Google allows them to gimp their OS then Google has created something entirely for the benefit of companies and not at all for the general population. I don't believe this is true. I think that the changes will start with Android v3.0. Google will start getting more pissy about custom crap especially if it makes their product seem worse and increase the chance that Android will be looked upon negatively.

Despiadado1 said:
I don't agree with the idea that companies would stop supporting the platform. The Droid has been a cash cow for verizon and it is an open book. Google could easily ask that their platform remain open for all to enjoy.
Beyond that, if Google allows them to gimp their OS then Google has created something entirely for the benefit of companies and not at all for the general population. I don't believe this is true. I think that the changes will start with Android v3.0. Google will start getting more pissy about custom crap especially if it makes their product seem worse and increase the chance that Android will be looked upon negatively.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its the same problem with windows, the OS gets blamed for what hardware vendors do to it... we see this $400 computers getting compared to Apples $1500+ computers and thats some how proof windows sucks, I never had problems with Vista being slow, but people and there $400 computer did.
The problem with Android, specifically the scrolling smoothness, is the vendors custom Android OS setups...

FtL1776 said:
Its the same problem with windows, the OS gets blamed for what hardware vendors do to it... we see this $400 computers getting compared to Apples $1500+ computers and thats some how proof windows sucks, I never had problems with Vista being slow, but people and there $400 computer did.
The problem with Android, specifically the scrolling smoothness, is the vendors custom Android OS setups...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To be fair, I think the scrolling smoothness is half crappy hardware and half Android's lack of hardware acceleration.

Mikerrrrrrrr said:
To be fair, I think the scrolling smoothness is half crappy hardware and half Android's lack of hardware acceleration.
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Click to collapse
No some custom roms fix those issues because they enable the hardware acceleration, which again shows that Google really should crack down on some of these custom versions of Android on phones.

Zaphod-Beeblebrox said:
Actually, I don't agree. I'm pretty sure one could extract those widgets if you really wanted to. (They "Ain't all that" if you ask me. - And yes, I did buy an X yesterday and love it. Just ain't crazy about those widgets).
I think the real reason this is locked down is to prevent custom ROM/Root access to enable tethering. There are other issues I'm sure, but at the top of the list is to protect that revenue Big Red is trying to generate.
As to Google 'Stopping' the carriers from locking this down, please understand that if the carriers can't protect their revenue streams, they simply won't allow the phones on their network, and that would hinder the growth of the OS in general.
Don't take any of my words as endorsement of VZW/Moto actions. I'll be first in line to flash/root my phone when/if its ever possible. I'm just a realist. VZW wants $20/month for WiFi Tether. They are going to do as much as reasonably possible to keep you from doing that for free.
In a related note, 2.2 Froyo does tethering natively. I expect this to be crippled/disabled when we get our update in a couple of months.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Motorola has said so itself. The reason Droid X is locked down is because they don't want people stealing their custom UI. Widgets are only part of this UI. The inability to flash custom roms is merely a consequence of protecting their UI.

FtL1776 said:
No some custom roms fix those issues because they enable the hardware acceleration, which again shows that Google really should crack down on some of these custom versions of Android on phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah. Didn't know that.

[Q] So, what happens when MS finds out we lied?

OK, I think that there is a general grasp on how to get WP7 running on our HD2's.
I am OK with the risk of bricking the hardware but I do have a concern that seems to be getting glossed over here.
What I want to know is what do you guys think is the chance of, and nature of any backlash from MS from essentially lying to get an activation code?
I have had my live ID, with all its related stuff - zune, etc. for a long time and fear the risk of loosing that more than the possibility of breaking a phone.
The simple answer is to just go buy an HD7, but that is expensive, and I have a perfectly good HD2 right here.
anyway... what do you guys see as the actual risks involved with obtaining and using the activation codes?

we all go to hell (is in the fairy tale book aka the bible)
There's a big debate about this you can read along here

The least they would do if the found a way to detect non-HD7 phones would be to close your live account for breach of T&C's.
I very much doubt that they would bring any legal action against the people who got the codes as there would be far too many people plus it would be very bad for PR and customers if they was to start suing people who wanted to use WP7.
All I would expect to happen is..
a) Lose live account.
b) Lose activation on phone.
Plus this relies on whether..
a) Microsoft find a way to detect the non-HD7's
b) If they decide to revoke activation at all.

TheBeak said:
OK, I think that there is a general grasp on how to get WP7 running on our HD2's.
I am OK with the risk of bricking the hardware but I do have a concern that seems to be getting glossed over here.
What I want to know is what do you guys think is the chance of, and nature of any backlash from MS from essentially lying to get an activation code?
I have had my live ID, with all its related stuff - zune, etc. for a long time and fear the risk of loosing that more than the possibility of breaking a phone.
The simple answer is to just go buy an HD7, but that is expensive, and I have a perfectly good HD2 right here.
anyway... what do you guys see as the actual risks involved with obtaining and using the activation codes?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well you have just told them..Have you. They read these posts. They are not hidden from the world..
But we have not Lied. I have wp7 I told them that and they gave me the code. It does not matter about what the outside of my mobile look like. Its the engine that's running it..So what if the shell of my mobile looks like a HD2? Who cares, MS dont. they are making money from the marketplace every day, and there profits is going back up.
Thats Business.
So think before you print in XDA forms, or read them all first.

I didn't lie and didn't feel that I should have had to. I said I have a htc windows phone and when I enter my windows live id and password it says to get an activation code which it did. I think people are acting as if they stole something when they didn't. Microsoft didn't upgrade the HD2 because it was going to "COST" them and because they wanted to have this "NEW PHONE" to promote. I don't really think they care now that it is on the HD2. It is good for business to have more users and I will even go on record saying that they will offer HD2 users WP7 with some form of disclaimer in the very near future now that it has been proven that it can be done.
If you go to the market and get free apps or buy apps that's good for their business. We all bought "Windows Mobile phones, and we are "NOT" stealing the software we are buying it. It is not like we are using a none Windows mobile phone. I really don't think they are going to track down people who bought Windows Mobile phones and sue them. That would be really, really bad for business to do that.
"Do you actually think they would prefer that we go back to Android, their competition, Seriously?" I don't.

Uh oh, I just got some information from a friend that works at Harte-Hanks here in town (MS uses them for customer service calls), that the codes generated won't be completely redacted but based on the phone number given on the support call, it will be cross-checked with the service provider based on the device reported by the cell service provider and information linked by your Windows Live ID. Those with an invalid device not corresponding with what's being reported by the provider (if they co-operate by releasing your info) should expect to receive a letter from Microsoft's legal counsel for committing fraud to obtain an activation code for Windows Phone 7.
It sounds like what DirecTV tried to with people who bought programmers/unloopers for the satellite H/HU cards back in the day and threaten everyone with legal action, but they could not prove what your intention with the programmer was. Except in this case, if you called in for a key you purposefully tried to deceive Microsoft if you were trying to activate live services. If you have your actual address and contact information in your Windows Live ID, I'd change it right away. My friend says all calls are recorded, they just selectively choose which to listen to if they need to go back. Just a warning for you all trying to get a key and take this information with a grain of salt, but I don't have any reason to doubt what my friend is saying.

DanielNTX said:
Uh oh, I just got some information from a friend that works at Harte-Hanks here in town (MS uses them for customer service calls), that the codes generated won't be completely redacted but based on the phone number given on the support call, it will be cross-checked with the service provider based on the device reported by the cell service provider and information linked by your Windows Live ID. Those with an invalid device not corresponding with what's being reported by the provider (if they co-operate by releasing your info) should expect to receive a letter from Microsoft's legal counsel for committing fraud to obtain an activation code for Windows Phone 7.
It sounds like what DirecTV tried to with people who bought programmers/unloopers for the satellite H/HU cards back in the day and threaten everyone with legal action, but they could not prove what your intention with the programmer was. Except in this case, if you called in for a key you purposefully tried to deceive Microsoft if you were trying to activate live services. If you have your actual address and contact information in your Windows Live ID, I'd change it right away. My friend says all calls are recorded, they just selectively choose which to listen to if they need to go back. Just a warning for you all trying to get a key and take this information with a grain of salt, but I don't have any reason to doubt what my friend is saying.
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Except in the case of the DirecTV they were STEALING the channels/premium boxing payperview events etc (I know this for a fact since a cousin of mine was messing around with the HU cards for a while). IF we were using the activation code to some how download pay apps as well as music for free off the Zune Marketplace then I can understand why they would go after people. But all you're doing is activating a service that lets you used their marketplace for apps/games and other services etc.
Same story with custom firmware on some xbox 360's. Why haven't they sue a single soul for doing it besides banning people off xbox live? that's as far as Microsoft have gone with that issue.
Thanks for the warning but your friend is over exaggerating.

In the DirecTV case, people were being sued for buying security card programmers without proof of them actually using them to STEAL satellite services.

DanielNTX said:
Those with an invalid device not corresponding with what's being reported by the provider (if they co-operate by releasing your info) should expect to receive a letter from Microsoft's legal counsel for committing fraud to obtain an activation code for Windows Phone 7.
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Click to collapse
They could be compelled to cooperate, but don't think for a moment your carrier is going to willingly start turning over records in an effort to nuke their own (sometimes highly valued) customers. Not gonna happen.
Cool scary story tho bro.

I'm just saying be careful here because MS will have information tied to you and what you are trying to do if you decide to do it.
From the http://www.directvdefense.org/ website:
What to do if you've been threatened by DirecTV
A number of folks have been writing or calling EFF asking what to do if they receive a letter from DirecTV when they have never pirated its signal. EFF does not give out legal advice in these circumstances and cannot represent any DirecTV defendants at this time, but there are a few things one might consider doing in this situation:
1) Take the threat seriously. DirecTV is likely to continue to go after you if you just ignore their letters or lawsuits.
2) Consider contacting a lawyer, preferably one with some experience in these cases and admitted in the federal court district where you live. We've compiled a list of attorneys currently taking DirecTV cases.
3) Collect all evidence you can think of to support your innocence. If there are emails, source code, schematics, bills, receipts, or other written documents that show you did not order, receive, or use the device in the letter, you will need those to substantiate your case. Also, if you did order the device but for a different purpose, consider talking to anyone who might have witnessed such uses and could testify on your behalf.
4) Document your use of cable or satellite systems. If you did not have a DirecTV satellite dish or set-top box during the time when you supposedly had the accused device, that will help your case.
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Click to collapse
I'm just saying be careful. Even Pocketnow says the same thing essentially:
Now, a couple of things are going on here that should convince you to never, ever try this (if Microsoft doesn't catch on like ten minutes ago and shut this thing down): first of all, you're possibly committing multiple crimes by procuring and using these PVK's, and if that doesn't bother you, then perhaps you'll be dissuaded by the fact that Microsoft can tie these keys to individual handsets (not to mention the personal info you gave up to get the rare 25-character code). In other words, not only do we not condone this sort of activity, we're actively suggesting that you stay far away from such serious fraud.
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mr_brew said:
I didn't lie and didn't feel that I should have had to. I said I have a htc windows phone and when I enter my windows live id and password it says to get an activation code which it did. I think people are acting as if they stole something when they didn't. Microsoft didn't upgrade the HD2 because it was going to "COST" them and because they wanted to have this "NEW PHONE" to promote. I don't really think they care now that it is on the HD2. It is good for business to have more users and I will even go on record saying that they will offer HD2 users WP7 with some form of disclaimer in the very near future now that it has been proven that it can be done.
If you go to the market and get free apps or buy apps that's good for their business. We all bought "Windows Mobile phones, and we are "NOT" stealing the software we are buying it. It is not like we are using a none Windows mobile phone. I really don't think they are going to track down people who bought Windows Mobile phones and sue them. That would be really, really bad for business to do that.
"Do you actually think they would prefer that we go back to Android, their competition, Seriously?" I don't.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The way I see it, the OS WP7 is an intelectual property rights. It is protected by law and it is not an open source.
You have to buy the software (WP7) to use that. It doesnt matter in which handset you use it, htc, samsung, etc.
Just like XP, Win7, etc, you buy the software to use legally. You can buy the branded PC (Acer, HP, Asus, etc), and you can also assemble a PC, but you still have to buy the software/os (XP, Win 7, etc)
So, it is not about using your HD2 for any other OS (WP7), but it is about using the software (WP7) which is legally protected as an intelectual property rights.
It doesnt mean I support microsoft. The fact is that I use WP7 on my HD2
Peace....

mr_brew said:
We all bought "Windows Mobile phones, and we are "NOT" stealing the software we are buying it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well we all actually bought Windows Mobile 6.5 software phones, but not Windows Phone 7 software.
It's like saying because you bought Windows for Workgroups 3.11 back in the 90's entitles you to all workstation versions of Windows. This could be true if you are paying for a yearly maintenance fee through Software Assurance. But last I heard there's no SA programs for Windows Mobile / Pocket PC / Windows Phone.

silverwind said:
The way I see it, the OS WP7 is an intelectual property rights. It is protected by law and it is not an open source.
You have to buy the software (WP7) to use that. It doesnt matter in which handset you use it, htc, samsung, etc.
Just like XP, Win7, etc, you buy the software to use legally. You can buy the branded PC (Acer, HP, Asus, etc), and you can also assemble a PC, but you still have to buy the software/os (XP, Win 7, etc)
So, it is not about using your HD2 for any other OS (WP7), but it is about using the software (WP7) which is legally protected as an intelectual property rights.
It doesnt mean I support microsoft. The fact is that I use WP7 on my HD2
Peace....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
good point except they looked the other way when people where modifying the crap out of WM6.5 hell practicly every single member on this forum have broken the HTC's EULA in one way of another.
Anyways not here to start a piss war if MS decides to suspend my live account it was my choice knowing well the repercussion of my actions at hand. (Then again I can finally cancel my 2 year old Zune Pass as well as my xbox live account )

ROFL ... sorry this was a horrible post

DJTJ said:
ROFL ... sorry this was a horrible post
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah you are right
sorry to scare you

as some of you already said, i belive ms would not be pissed if we buy apps from marketplace
but if they can find a way of tagging our phones as not being wp7 native and together with the info we provided when we asked for activation code, they just have the info about who are the people that are using "pirate" wp7
now this could be a serious motiv for ms to raise legal action against us, forcing us, at least, to drop the wp7 or/and to pay a penalty fee for using wp7
now, they will put in balance how much money could they get from such users buying legal apps fom marketplace and eventualy getting them to buy a native wp7 phone or how much money could they get by forcing those people to pay such penalty
my 2c!

noris08 said:
as some of you already said, i belive ms would not be pissed if we buy apps from marketplace
but if they can find a way of tagging our phones as not being wp7 native and together with the info we provided when we asked for activation code, they just have the info about who are the people that are using "pirate" wp7
now this could be a serious motiv for ms to raise legal action against us, forcing us, at least, to drop the wp7 or/and to pay a penalty fee for using wp7
now, they will put in balance how much money could they get from such users buying legal apps fom marketplace and eventualy getting them to buy a native wp7 phone or how much money could they get by forcing those people to pay such penalty
my 2c!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I get your points. Yes, there is possibility as you said.
But I dont think MS will enforce any action against us.
Why? This kind of activities (hacking window os) has already happened since long time ago.I remembered I flashed my Touch HD with WM 6.5 (energy rom actually ) This is the same case as flashing WP7 to your HD2, right?, but MS just keeps silent though they know it (by browsing here at XDA )
that 's just my 2 cents

silverwind said:
I get your points. Yes, there is possibility as you said.
But I dont think MS will enforce any action against us.
Why? This kind of activities (hacking window os) has already happened since long time ago.I remembered I flashed my Touch HD with WM 6.5 (energy rom actually ) This is the same case as flashing WP7 to your HD2, right?, but MS just keeps silent though they know it (by browsing here at XDA )
that 's just my 2 cents
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no, it's not exactly the case
when you bought the hd you also bought an wm6.1 license. wm6.5 is just an update of the 6.1, more like a service pack. so, you basicaly have the os you bought with some "enhancements"
but for wp7 you didn't pay anything, on your hd2 you just bought a wm os, not a wp7 os
for me looks like legaly windows xp with some service pack against windows 7
i just hope i am wrong

Phoned this morning, said I was having trouble accessing the market on my 'windows phone 7', person at other end said I needed an activation code and asked for my name, email and number, I gave the real ones and asked for code to be mailed. Code has arrived in mail.
Now to see what happens when the new update of WP7 comes out.

zkid2010 said:
They could be compelled to cooperate, but don't think for a moment your carrier is going to willingly start turning over records in an effort to nuke their own (sometimes highly valued) customers. Not gonna happen.
Cool scary story tho bro.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly, its compelte BS. The only way that the carrier could turn over information is IF they themselves may be liable in some way which they are not. If they turn over any sort of personal information without our consent its a breach of the data protect act (at least here in the UK it is) and that is a much higher crime then what we have done (if its a crime at all).
Plus the carrier has no way of knowing what phone we actually have unless they use the IMEI of the phone as a reference which again goes back to personal information and they wouldn't be able to disclose anything without court order and there is no court in the land who would force a UK company to turn over personal information in this case.
The most M$ can do in this situation is to find a way to detect a non-HD7 and to revoke the product key and thus disable activation of live services.
But I really dont think M$ are going to kick all this up, think about it what motivation would they have to piss about? Yeah they didn't want to officially support the HD2 and a port of WP7 etc but that doesn't mean they are also going to actively stop anybody who manages use it in the end it just not worth their while.
Its upto M$ now, they can either screw their supporters or let them be.

Mercenary hackers claim full control over Windows Phone

Read here.... http://www.wpcentral.com/mercenary-hackers-hackingteam-claim-full-control-over-windows-phone. Not sure how to feel about this??? If true then there's definately hope for unlocking more WP8 handsets yet at the same time with all the NSA crap going on and concerns about privacy and security...WTF??? Reading around various forums and sites I am actually surprised how many people are NOT interested in unlocking their devices naming security as their number one reason for switching to the WP8 platform. In all the time I've spent here on the forums, with the exception of a few shady posts by no one of any consequence, I have never seen any maliciousness in the the search for exploits and attempts to unlock devices. If anything it almost seems like a game between devs and MS/OEMS and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if some of the devs here were offered opportunities by those same entities; if not then our gain, MS's loss. However this article got me thinking about the possibilities and implications of any exploits or unlocks found and just wondering what others thought... As for my mindset....I paid for my device with hard earned cash therefore it should be mine to F up as I see fit and I will deal with the consequences like a big boy.

Microsoft buying Apple is much more plausible that what is in there.
Part of having a secret surveillance plan is to actually keep the plan secret.
I doubt the group "responsible" for this would post their achievements on the internet, provided they are supported by the government.

tonbonz said:
Read here.... http://www.wpcentral.com/mercenary-hackers-hackingteam-claim-full-control-over-windows-phone. ... As for my mindset....I paid for my device with hard earned cash therefore it should be mine to F up as I see fit and I will deal with the consequences like a big boy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You and folk like you are in the insignificant minority of the population
There are far to many people that will quite happily blame MS / OEMs / Networks for any and all problems regardless of who actually broke it.
The other thing is said networks / OEMs don't want you arsing about with their phone, for example, ATT take great pride in being able to charge you for a service that is free, if the phone was unlocked that would stop and ATT would be out of pocket. They pull out of WP arena and rollocks your fathers uncle, MS loses market share.
it sucks, but such is life, now that MS has locked down the market place with from what I can tell is completely impervious to abuse, I doubt very much they could give a $h!t what you do to the platform and if you can unlock it, they do however care about market share which is where the networks come in...

Oh, that's pretty plausible, actually. Even if you assume it's for every device on every version of the OS, I'd still be willing to believe it. Microsoft has done well on security with WP8, hardening the OS (NT in general) over the last decade or so to remove vulns, and using pretty good sandboxing of WP8 apps to minimize attack surface. With that said, there are still items being found, and patched (at least on the PC), regularly in Windows. Some of those vulnerabilities will be present and reachable on WP8 as well, and given how slowly phone updates roll out, I wouldn't be surprised if there's a known but un-patched issue being exploited. For that matter, it could be a true zero-day - something Microsoft is completely unaware of, at least when the exploit was first used - although I think that's less likely.

dazza9075 said:
You and folk like you are in the insignificant minority of the population
There are far to many people that will quite happily blame MS / OEMs / Networks for any and all problems regardless of who actually broke it.
The other thing is said networks / OEMs don't want you arsing about with their phone, for example, ATT take great pride in being able to charge you for a service that is free, if the phone was unlocked that would stop and ATT would be out of pocket. They pull out of WP arena and rollocks your fathers uncle, MS loses market share.
it sucks, but such is life, now that MS has locked down the market place with from what I can tell is completely impervious to abuse, I doubt very much they could give a $h!t what you do to the platform and if you can unlock it, they do however care about market share which is where the networks come in...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm used to being the minority, in a world full of sheep I'd much rather be a wolf, but insignificant? Harsh... Of course the security of the platform is probably the biggest selling point MS had to offer the networks and with perfect timing. I'm sure it's helped increase market shares when everyone's worried about keeping their data secure. As for the marketplace, I am constantly amazed at the apps being created but use very few myself. My kid spends more time on my Lumia than I do; using the Kid's Room feature to play games. Another brilliant "security" feature and one of the first features I point out to any parent asking about the platform. Anyways, knowing the work done here and intentions behind it, seeing that some group possibly gained full access to the platform simply for the purpose of "spying" for anyone that can pay their fees kinda p***ed me off and wondered what others thoughts were...

"Mercenary hackers claim full control over Windows Phone"
and my grandpa told me he had sex with Lili Marleen... but who know... maybe has maybe not

tonbonz said:
I'm used to being the minority, in a world full of sheep I'd much rather be a wolf, but insignificant? Harsh... Of course the security of the platform is probably the biggest selling point MS had to offer the networks and with perfect timing. I'm sure it's helped increase market shares when everyone's worried about keeping their data secure. As for the marketplace, I am constantly amazed at the apps being created but use very few myself. My kid spends more time on my Lumia than I do; using the Kid's Room feature to play games. Another brilliant "security" feature and one of the first features I point out to any parent asking about the platform. Anyways, knowing the work done here and intentions behind it, seeing that some group possibly gained full access to the platform simply for the purpose of "spying" for anyone that can pay their fees kinda p***ed me off and wondered what others thoughts were...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
aye, we are significant in our world but there are a lot more numpties out there then there are of us

GoodDayToDie said:
I wouldn't be surprised if there's a known but un-patched issue being exploited..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I totally agree with you but until I see something concrete these are only words...or like I can say in Italian:
fatti, non pugnette!:laugh: (facts, no word please)

Oh, to be sure. Still, it actually gives me a little hope for finding a universal "jailbreak" hack... although I'd prefer one that isn't remotely exploitable.

LineageOS - Better than stock Android/iOS, or worse?

I posted this on a thread and then realised it probably belongs here instead, didnt realise there was a whole board for lineage.....
Hi all. I am just learning about LineageOS. I mainly want it for my kids, as I want NO google spyware/behaviour tracking in their life, no Youtube etc either. A friend advised me to try LineageOS, calling it a 'privacy based OS'. I then bought a used MotoG with LIneage on, a Google Asus tablet with Lineage on, and finally a Google Nexus again with LineageOS on. I was over the moon, picking up all three from a car boot sale dirt cheap, in mint condition too! BUT.... Another friend of mine, a software engineer and privacy 'expert' as far as I am concerned anyway - he said that LineageOS is not safe to use as rooting is dangerous and exposes the devices to a plethora of attacks and vulnerabilities. I just wondered what the opinions on here were about that?
I discussed it and said 'I just want privacy thats all', and he basically said "You cant have privacy without FIRST having security". Agree/Disagree? I am all ears! (this is all new to me, never flashed anything but my back side!)

Anyone?

dannythechamp said:
Anyone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess all your questions are answered all over in XDA. Such as knowledge about root, privacy etc.
If you don't understand what rooting your device means or does, stay away from it.
If you do understand after digging into it, you will have almost endless tools to run your phone like it should run, and not like the pre-installed ROM you get it from the manufactory...

Thats a curious response. My question is about whether people agree or disagree with this point. The lack of responses (and yours) suggest people just dont want to discuss it. Thats curious in itself and now makes me think the point is valid.
I understand a bit about rooting, I Just have not done it with my own hands. The main point I understand about it is the fact that it gives the user of the phone (or anyone emulating that via attack/theft) superuser/admin level access. Great, for removing built in spyware from Google (which is my main motivation here), but as was suggested to me, not so great if it makes the device inherently insecure. I was hoping for some discussion on this topic, clearly nobody wants to discuss it. Maybe that's an answer in itself.

complex jobs

ha, I refer to my last!

Danny, pre installed Android is more secure, if you don't know exactly what you are doing with your os. Lineage os, or simply a rooted phone, puts you in control of everything, included your privacy, but you have to know what you are doing. I agree with your friend.
Inviato dal mio SM-A405FN utilizzando Tapatalk

Thanks for chipping in Alessia. Yes, I certainly don't enough to claim "i know what I am doing"! My friend does though, and even he says with all the expertise in the world, you can't close the loophole that is "Rooting". Yes he could certainly mitigate much of the risks, but not all, and he still believes with all the mitigation in the world, a rooted phone (especially one running Lineage) is still less secure than a stock android with secure hardware such as (ironically) Google's Pixel. That's what he says anyway. I am not tech enough to believe him out of knowledge, but I certainly do trust him to tell me the truth, which these days certainly counts for something!
He summed up his advice with something like this.....
'If you can afford a Pixel running Graphene (IF the OS keeps being worked on, which is in doubt at the mo), then that's the most secure AND privacy-respecting option. If you can't, next stop stock iOS, next stock Android, Lineage way down the list, Lineage on an old MotoG or any old (cheap ) unsupported device which gets no hardware/firmware updates/patches, that's just security and privacy suicide!'
That's about the best round up I can give for his comments. So it's stock iOS or Android for me. Now to decide which! I already have an iPhone. Was looking forward to dumping it, and I certainly do prefer Android, but he says stock iOS is slightly more secure than stock Android.
The biggest pain in the ar5e for me is the fact that, in order to avoid security risks, you have to give yourself to Apple and/or Google. That's a depressing state of affairs indeed. I will just have to do everything I can to prevent as much spying as possible, turn off siri type stuff, location services, etc etc

dannythechamp said:
Thanks for chipping in Alessia. Yes, I certainly don't enough to claim "i know what I am doing"! My friend does though, and even he says with all the expertise in the world, you can't close the loophole that is "Rooting". Yes he could certainly mitigate much of the risks, but not all, and he still believes with all the mitigation in the world, a rooted phone (especially one running Lineage) is still less secure than a stock android with secure hardware such as (ironically) Google's Pixel. That's what he says anyway. I am not tech enough to believe him out of knowledge, but I certainly do trust him to tell me the truth, which these days certainly counts for something!
He summed up his advice with something like this.....
'If you can afford a Pixel running Graphene (IF the OS keeps being worked on, which is in doubt at the mo), then that's the most secure AND privacy-respecting option. If you can't, next stop stock iOS, next stock Android, Lineage way down the list, Lineage on an old MotoG or any old (cheap ) unsupported device which gets no hardware/firmware updates/patches, that's just security and privacy suicide!'
That's about the best round up I can give for his comments. So it's stock iOS or Android for me. Now to decide which! I already have an iPhone. Was looking forward to dumping it, and I certainly do prefer Android, but he says stock iOS is slightly more secure than stock Android.
The biggest pain in the ar5e for me is the fact that, in order to avoid security risks, you have to give yourself to Apple and/or Google. That's a depressing state of affairs indeed. I will just have to do everything I can to prevent as much spying as possible, turn off siri type stuff, location services, etc etc
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let's start by asking the question, are stock cell phones secure? The answer is very simple, NO! The list of entities watching you is nearly endless, starting with your provider, then the manufacturer ... None of them have your interests at heart. For most the objective is to separate you from your money. For others the objective is to collect information that can be used to manipulate you socially or politically.
So is third party software safer. Depending if it is open source or not. Closed source, probably not.Open source software is generally considered safer, for the simple reason that it is more difficult include malware in it. There is a caveat, the size of the development/user community matters - in general the larger the better - the more eyeballs on the developers the better.
Is "rooting" a good idea, for most users the answer is NO. It increases the security exposure which is not a good idea.

Dear Danny, if you want to avoid security risks, just do it. You are not compelled to do or buy anything.
Use your brain, your knowledge, root your phone and take full control on your device. That's enough.
But, if you want Google or Apple to avoid security risks for you, the price is your privacy (and a new phone every 2 years, to receive security patches).
For me, it is a simple as this.
The choice is up to you.
And, again, I agree with your friend.
Inviato dal mio SM-A405FN utilizzando Tapatalk

zzz2002 said:
Let's start by asking the question, are stock cell phones secure? The answer is very simple, NO! The list of entities watching you is nearly endless, starting with your provider, then the manufacturer ... None of them have your interests at heart. For most the objective is to separate you from your money. For others the objective is to collect information that can be used to manipulate you socially or politically.
So is third party software safer. Depending if it is open source or not. Closed source, probably not.Open source software is generally considered safer, for the simple reason that it is more difficult include malware in it. There is a caveat, the size of the development/user community matters - in general the larger the better - the more eyeballs on the developers the better.
Is "rooting" a good idea, for most users the answer is NO. It increases the security exposure which is not a good idea.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
very well put and for the most part, I completely agree. However, I perhaps should have said, but when I say "secure", I am basically talking about unauthorised/malicious access. I believe that just about everything Google/FB and friends do IS malicious! However, we give them access (we are the self-basting turkeys) by buying an Android device and using Gmail, Google, Youtube or whatever else. Same goes for Apple users who use Siri and location services. The point being.... if Google tracks me on my Android device, I wouldn't call that "insecure", just anti-privacy and horrible in many others, but not a security hole for the context of this conversation. However, in order to remove Google and mainstream spyware/dragnet surveillance from my life, it's not as simple as just replacing the stock Android with a custom rom (and rooting), as that's like closing the front curtains but removing the back wall of my house!
I am coming to the conclusion that I have to choose between two evils, one is official spyware run by the likes of Google, and in doing so I protect myself from most hackers and exploits (As Google needs to keep its users safe from that to stay in business) - OR - I tell Google where to stick it's big fat nose, install a custom rom and root my device to gain the control needed to make that happen, but meanwhile expose myself to smaller and perhaps more overtly malicious attackers.
I wish there was a solution, and I wish there was even a happy medium. But when I want ultra security AND privacy (the latter being dependent on the former really), I think the only answer I can find so far, is to have no phone at all. Or perhaps an old pre internet phone for calls and texts, and a laptop for all data stuff, which can be secured/privacified to a much greater degree than a smart device can.

dannythechamp said:
very well put and for the most part, I completely agree. However, I perhaps should have said, but when I say "secure", I am basically talking about unauthorised/malicious access. I believe that just about everything Google/FB and friends do IS malicious! However, we give them access (we are the self-basting turkeys) by buying an Android device and using Gmail, Google, Youtube or whatever else. Same goes for Apple users who use Siri and location services. The point being.... if Google tracks me on my Android device, I wouldn't call that "insecure", just anti-privacy and horrible in many others, but not a security hole for the context of this conversation. However, in order to remove Google and mainstream spyware/dragnet surveillance from my life, it's not as simple as just replacing the stock Android with a custom rom (and rooting), as that's like closing the front curtains but removing the back wall of my house!
I am coming to the conclusion that I have to choose between two evils, one is official spyware run by the likes of Google, and in doing so I protect myself from most hackers and exploits (As Google needs to keep its users safe from that to stay in business) - OR - I tell Google where to stick it's big fat nose, install a custom rom and root my device to gain the control needed to make that happen, but meanwhile expose myself to smaller and perhaps more overtly malicious attackers.
I wish there was a solution, and I wish there was even a happy medium. But when I want ultra security AND privacy (the latter being dependent on the former really), I think the only answer I can find so far, is to have no phone at all. Or perhaps an old pre internet phone for calls and texts, and a laptop for all data stuff, which can be secured/privacified to a much greater degree than a smart device can.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Talking about a happy medium: I tried to setup a stock android nokia1 without Google. First of all: you don't need a Google account. Install f-droid. You can disable most Google apps. Sadly i need a stock phone app to receive calls and Google play services to get system updates. Disable all permissions of Google play services.
Good luck.

dannythechamp said:
he said that LineageOS is not safe to use as rooting is dangerous and exposes the devices to a plethora of attacks and vulnerabilities.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ummm, that statement seems to imply that if you're running LineageOS then your device must also be rooted, which in my limited experience is incorrect. I flashed my several year old Huawei phone with LineageOS only about a week ago and that was my first experience with flashing a custom ROM so take anything I say with that in mind. My phone was not then and still isn't rooted, haven't decided on that yet and for now I see no need, for me personally anyway... one step at a time.
Do I feel that the security of my phone is now less secure with lineageOS? Well in the time I've owned the phone it hasn't seen any official system updates and the Android Security Patch level was from 2016, with LOS 14.1 the Android security patch level is November 2018, not the absolute latest but far better than before on the stock Huawei ROM... there are probably other things too but that's one thing that springs to mind, your experience may differ.
Like I said I'm not very experienced with all this and I may have misunderstood something in your friends reasoning, but if his concern is about rooting devices, it's perhaps a separate issue altogether. Anyway just my 2 cents worth...

As others have said, LineageOS is likely as secure as stock Android, probably even moreso. It often icludes more recent security patches, and it's open source. If I were you I would definitely go for the LOS.
But rooting can be a bit problematic. To be perfectly clear, rooting almost certainly does NOT create any additional security holes on it's own. If you root your phone without using shady Chinese software you are good.
However the rooting becomes a problem when you don't know what you're doing. If you accidentally allow root access to a malicious app you are 100% screwed. That's why people say rooting is dangerous. It's only dangerous if you misuse it. But the great thing is that you can just unroot your phone and you will be good to go.

I am late to this party, but I will comment anyway because computer security is a big part of what I do for a living, and android security is important to me because I am a rather militant privacy advocate and I use an android phone.
So.
If you want to fully secure the android system, and guarantee your privacy, you have to root the phone. Period. Full stop. There are many apps out there that require root to run that will greatly enhance your privacy and security. Afwall and Greenify are two that immediately come to mind.
That said, if you root your phone and you don't know what you are doing, you can indeed leave your phone in a very vulnerable state, without knowing it.
The basic issue is that, when you root, you gain complete and total access to the device. You can add or change or delete literally anything on the phone. This enables you to screw it up in a big way, and this also makes it easy for certain malware to take complete control of the device.
Now, there is malware out there which will silently root your phone for you, then take control, and you actually can block this malware by rooting it yourself and installing a root manager. But most malware does not do that and by rooting your phone then exposing it to that malware, you give the malware a level of access it would never have if the phone was not rooted.
For safety, unless you are technically sophisticated, you should not root. This limits YOUR access to your device, and keeps you from hosing it, and also limits what most malware can do. But it also prevents you from removing some built-in software that you don't want or that is spying on you, and it limits your ability to restrict the activity of some software that you want to have running, but you don't want to have able to do certain things.
In many ways the android phone is not built to serve YOUR interests; it is built to serve Google's interests, and the interests of those third parties who have paid money to have their apps placed on it by default. The facebook app immediately springs to mind; no one should have that malicious POS on their device because it sells you out completely. Unless you root, you cannot make the phone solely serve your interests.
LineageOS gives you the capability to turn root on, then turn it back off. Thus, using LOS, you can enable root, remove those noxious apps, and turn root off again. This, to my mind, is a decent compromise. Nonetheless, root is present on the phone and if you leave it on you can both (a) lock that phone down tight and make it fully secure, and (b) hose it completely if you make a mistake, and (c) leave it more vulnerable than stock if you don't know what you are doing.
So those who tell you that rooting is a bad idea...are more or less right. For most people, they are right. If you want a fully secure android, then you have to both root AND thoroughly educate yourself, which takes a lot of effort.
So, you decide.

Any word on LineageOS 17 for the Nexus 6?
Verstuurd vanaf mijn Nexus 6 met Tapatalk

dannythechamp said:
I posted this on a thread and then realised it probably belongs here instead, didnt realise there was a whole board for lineage.....
Hi all. I am just learning about LineageOS. I mainly want it for my kids, as I want NO google spyware/behaviour tracking in their life, no Youtube etc either. A friend advised me to try LineageOS, calling it a 'privacy based OS'. I then bought a used MotoG with LIneage on, a Google Asus tablet with Lineage on, and finally a Google Nexus again with LineageOS on. I was over the moon, picking up all three from a car boot sale dirt cheap, in mint condition too! BUT.... Another friend of mine, a software engineer and privacy 'expert' as far as I am concerned anyway - he said that LineageOS is not safe to use as rooting is dangerous and exposes the devices to a plethora of attacks and vulnerabilities. I just wondered what the opinions on here were about that?
I discussed it and said 'I just want privacy thats all', and he basically said "You cant have privacy without FIRST having security". Agree/Disagree? I am all ears! (this is all new to me, never flashed anything but my back side!)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Security does not equal privacy. Stock ROM is for those who are willing to sacrifice privacy for security and functionality.
Graphene and Lineage are for these people
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