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Hi, i have a very strange and unpleasant problem with my Hermes.. At home I am using my wifi connection to receive mails etc. My Hermes connects to the wifi network normally, but when I want to use internet connection (IE, Outlook..) it will start GPRS. I have to turn wifi of and back on to be able to use it. It is pretty annoying as you can imagine. Now I am using latest Tytn WWE rom, but i have had same problems with T-mobile rom.
My old Wizard is connecting normally and has never done something stupid like this Do anyone have some clue what may cause this strange behaviour?
Have you confirmed that the home WiFi connection is configured as 'Connects to: The Internet'? In comm manager turn off the WiFI then go into settings/connections/Network Cards and you will be presented with all the networks used or previously found by your TyTn wireless card.
Select you named home wireless connection and you will be presented with the screen "Configure Wireless Network". Make sure that the entry against "Connects to:" i sset to The Internet - then press OK (top right), then dismiss the settings windows.
Try the connection again - it worked for me a while back. If already set at "connects to the Internet" then try deleting the settings and creating the entry again: press and hold on the connection (your home WiFi) then select "Remove Settings". Then turn on networked and set it up again remembering to select "connects to the Internet" when asked during the configuration of the WiFi connection. Of course you will again be prompted for a network key if you have a secure wireless router.
- if you all this then sorry but you didn't say. Hope it helps
I have already set it to connect to the internet few days ago. But i will try to remove those settings and do it again.. Hope it will solve the problem.
Thanks for your help. I'll report later..
naciniak said:
I have already set it to connect to the internet few days ago. But i will try to remove those settings and do it again.. Hope it will solve the problem.
Thank's for your help. I'll report later..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mine does the same thing and I am set the same way, even though it connects to GPRS etc it still uses the WiFi (ran speed test on IE to confirm)
Hi
I hear good things about Danielherrero's bandswitch app. This is a long thread and I think there are revisions along the way so best read through a sample of the pages:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=286844&highlight=danielherrero
Whether it will solve your particular issue I don't know - but worth a look?
Mike
mikechannon said:
Hi
I hear good things about Danielherrero's bandswitch app. This is a long thread and I think there are revisions along the way so best read through a sample of the pages:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=286844&highlight=danielherrero
Whether it will solve your particular issue I don't know - but worth a look?
Mike
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm.. I am already using that band switcher. Really a great program but unfortunatelly it cannot solve this issue.
But.. I can see a light at the end of the tunnel I've deleted my network settings and than set it again. And now it seems to be working! Hmm.. cannot be quite sure if it isn't just lucky day, but I've tested it more than 10 times and it seems to be OK.
Anyway... thanks for your help
Hopefully it will continue to work.
PS Is "cancer man" still alive or have the ciggies killed him off?
Mike
Glad to hear it worked OK. I too found it was teh only way to get mine initially working - since deleting and recreating the link it has worked OK (3 mths plus)
Aaah.. I heard that cancer man is still alive. But.. trust no one Hope he will not follow the Marlboro Man..
And by the way.. After few hours it still seems to be working. Thanks guys!!
Out of a month of use it has happened to me only once. I just turned off wifi then turned it back on. I believe the tytn is not recognising that it has a valid Internet connection.
Hey guys, I've been having a problem with the wifi on my universal for awhile, it just won't turn on, antenna stays off, no scanning, it's just off.
Going into the Wireless lan settings in the control panel "Wireless LAN OFF" is displayed, click "Turn on WLAN" it thinks for a few moments then returns to off with nothing changed.
Does anyone know if this is fixable? It doesn't appera to be a software issue, as it has continued on 3 diffreent ROMs... so i'm not sure how to proceed
Balur said:
Hey guys, I've been having a problem with the wifi on my universal for awhile, it just won't turn on, antenna stays off, no scanning, it's just off.
Going into the Wireless lan settings in the control panel "Wireless LAN OFF" is displayed, click "Turn on WLAN" it thinks for a few moments then returns to off with nothing changed.
Does anyone know if this is fixable? It doesn't appera to be a software issue, as it has continued on 3 diffreent ROMs... so i'm not sure how to proceed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't have Universal, But did you test an official rom or a cooked rom ?! because some of the cooked roms don't have the right wifi driver
I don't think its the driver, since 3 different ROMs, and no one else has complained about such thingcs in any of those ROM's, also it does work sometimes but thats maybe 1 in 20 reboots.
Balur said:
I don't think its the driver, since 3 different ROMs, and no one else has complained about such thingcs in any of those ROM's, also it does work sometimes but thats maybe 1 in 20 reboots.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i have the same problem...although my universal has an official rom...
but Balur i have another problem please tell me if you have the same thing... sometimes when im lucky and get the wifi on and log into a wifi network sometimes the (new wifi network balloon message) appears 5 to 10 times and other times even after i log into a network i cant use the internet for anything browsin, messenger or anything else....
again that occurs frequently but not all the time....
hope anyone could help...
hi i also have the same problem that sometimes the wifi wont turn on, although i press the wifi button...don#t know why...
i often have to resset and than it works...
Anyone...
Anybody...
we need a solution plz
hello people, fist time poster here. had my uni for about a month now. very useful device, I was loving using the wifi until 10 mins ago when the whole device turned off randomly whilst browsing through wifi. plugged it in to charge, when starting up I get a couple of errors saying certain things won't start. now wifi doesn't start and I get the same problems as others on here. do we have a solution to this?? also, can I actually turn this device off? I've tried holding the power button on for 20+ seconds and had no joy.
Bellers said:
also, can I actually turn this device off? I've tried holding the power button on for 20+ seconds and had no joy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You mean "really" off, like as no battery would be inside?
Nope, you can't
You can switch the active pda part off and set it to silent, but this wouldn't prevent the device from switching back on on phonecalls. Even if you turn off the radio stack it still would power the display's backlight on and show a notifier if a reminder was set up.
Really turning it off is only possible by removing the battery. Yes, it is a windows mobile device.
Concerning your problems after the crash you should be fine by coldbooting after recharging the battery. The latter one often causes some troubles with the Uni.
Balur said:
I don't think its the driver, since 3 different ROMs, and no one else has complained about such thingcs in any of those ROM's, also it does work sometimes but thats maybe 1 in 20 reboots.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had a same problem.
Yep.. I hate this, i have the same problem and i havent found any solutions
WiFi also dead but on a HTC Artemis
Hi Guys,
I have the same problem but on my HTC Artemis aka XDA Orbit. Only occurred when I was flashing with different ROMS. Even when i flashed original ROM still same thing.
I did read on the forum somewhere that the issue was due to the device not having a valid mac address.
Anyone shed any light on this matter?
There are tools out there for other HTC devices to get Wifi back but not sure if they will work on the uni as they dont work for the artemis.
i was able to get my wif working bygoing into the wireless manager then network cards and had to change it so they all were set to connect to the internet
Balur said:
Hey guys, I've been having a problem with the wifi on my universal for awhile, it just won't turn on, antenna stays off, no scanning, it's just off.
Going into the Wireless lan settings in the control panel "Wireless LAN OFF" is displayed, click "Turn on WLAN" it thinks for a few moments then returns to off with nothing changed.
Does anyone know if this is fixable? It doesn't appera to be a software issue, as it has continued on 3 diffreent ROMs... so i'm not sure how to proceed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hi @ all
this tread is a bit "past" but now i got the problem mentioned by balur. i used google and the forum search, but i was not able to find a solution. i hope smb. can help me, because i need the wifi on friday!
I solved the problem of Wi-Fi turning off by going to ActiveSync - Connection Settings and enabling "Allow wireless connection on device when connected to the desktop" option.
Wifi Stopped Functioning after flashing Roms
I have had similar wifi problems with my uni,
My uni was working perfectly for a long while when using "Tomal's 7.7" with Radio 1.18 . . . since then I tried testing with "T-Mobile official ROM AKU3.3" where the flash process when without a hitch.
However I had to change roms again since the T-Mobile rom wasn't very good. but i never got as far as testing the wifi
- - - -
I then tried to flash Tomal's 8.5 Beta, I ran into problems, and was stuck at the bootloader, I tried unlocking the uni with mtty, But i had copied and pasted the commands, and it kept on returning errors, after disconnecting and connecting with mtty again i tried typing in the commands and successfully unbricked my uni.
I attempted to flash Tomal's 8.5 Beta again, this time it worked without a hitch, but then I couldn't turn on wifi.
Wifi cannot be turned "on" from the comm manager or from WLAN. It just remains "off".
So I tried flashing back to Tomal 7.7 and wifi still didn't turn on.
Then I tried flashing Tomal 8.5 Beta again and still no wifi.
I've now tried flashing Radio 1.15 and - still no wifi
- - - -
I havn't the foggiest why wifi isn't functioning at all. Have I messed things up when I copied and pasted the commands into mtty?
Or did flashing the T-Mobile rom cause the problem?
No WIFI
Same here. I've tried 2 different upgrades now and the WIFI simply will not turn on. I've tried all the tricks in this thread, still no WIFI. anyone any ideas?
yason said:
I solved the problem of Wi-Fi turning off by going to ActiveSync - Connection Settings and enabling "Allow wireless connection on device when connected to the desktop" option.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks a bunch, this works for me.
Hi, I have a Qtek 9000 and a still have the same problem: Wifi wont´t turn on!
Wifi won't turn on - April 2009
Hi, I have a Qtek 9000 and a still have the same problem: Wifi wont´t turn on!
Any one has the solution.
rntip said:
Hi, I have a Qtek 9000 and a still have the same problem: Wifi wont´t turn on!
Any one has the solution.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Welcome to the forum
Try doing a hard reset or flashing another ROM
Good luck and don´t forget to vote!
Hey guys, i have flashed to a few ROMs in the past and my phone would always give me the trouble of no data connection. My tmobile wing is hard spl and running currently on papa's black diamond. whenever i tried to go to the comm manager to activate the data connection, it just wont turn on while other buttons i have no problem turning on such as wlan and bluetooth.
i've also tried launching internet but it just says there's no data connection and ask me to go to settings. i still can make calls but just completely no data connections. i have also soft resetted it several time and no luck. =/
help would be great!
ps. i've looked up several other threads with the same problem, however, theres really nothing under connections except add new so it didnt help much.
cbbplanet said:
Hey guys, i have flashed to a few ROMs in the past and my phone would always give me the trouble of no data connection. My tmobile wing is hard spl and running currently on papa's black diamond. whenever i tried to go to the comm manager to activate the data connection, it just wont turn on while other buttons i have no problem turning on such as wlan and bluetooth.
i've also tried launching internet but it just says there's no data connection and ask me to go to settings. i still can make calls but just completely no data connections. i have also soft resetted it several time and no luck. =/
help would be great!
ps. i've looked up several other threads with the same problem, however, theres really nothing under connections except add new so it didnt help much.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
cbbplanet said:
Hey guys, i have flashed to a few ROMs in the past and my phone would always give me the trouble of no data connection. My tmobile wing is hard spl and running currently on papa's black diamond. whenever i tried to go to the comm manager to activate the data connection, it just wont turn on while other buttons i have no problem turning on such as wlan and bluetooth.
i've also tried launching internet but it just says there's no data connection and ask me to go to settings. i still can make calls but just completely no data connections. i have also soft resetted it several time and no luck. =/
help would be great!
ps. i've looked up several other threads with the same problem, however, theres really nothing under connections except add new so it didnt help much.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you have to use the Network Wizard. If it is not in that rom, can install it using the cab, it's should be around this forum.
thanks live! but i'm not sure which network wizard cab file works and which doesnt.. so a friend helped me set it up manually. thanks though!!
papamopps said:
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What, have you heard that question before?
Ryan
yes my fone is having the same problem and now i cant flash to a new rom
i flashed for the first time yesterday, and had the same problem. just call tmobile and tell them somehow your data connection information has deleted, and they will run u through what to put in the fields. and don't forget to go to the network wizard, to make sure its on the right network.
Same problem except it WAS working (my gprs/edge) until I added my first wlan entry.. of my apartment's wifi which works. But after I was done using it i turned the wlan off from comm manager and expected to see the big E for edge and instead just see the two arrows with the little x under it. I can no longer connect to gprs/edge. If i open the internet explorer to view a page, it flashes a "G" with the arrows like it's trying to connect forever. At that point it will not even let me make or receive calls until I reboot the ppc. Network wizard won't fix it as I've already tried, twice... no change. My data connection for T-mobile is set up already under "connections tab" but it just doesn't work. My best guess is something has gone wrong in the registry... but as much as I've searched for this kind of problem I find nothing... just stuff how to fix wlan problems. btw, i'm on tmobile. Oh, it won't even activesync if my wlan is off now... I have to enable the wlan and let it connect to my home network... and THEN it will go through activesync without error. This is nuts, I already hard resetted once because of this and now it's the same story. Maybe it's just a prob with the opentouch 6.5 nofrills version that's just basic and let's the users add their own apps.
This is a very peculiar problem i am facing in my hd2. The wifi connection settings as well as the data connection settings keep on changing automatically. At times after restart they work perfectly fine and stop otherwise automatically especially after a power failure , when the router rests again , the internet cant be connected.
Any help ??
Aloqa
have you recently installed a programme called Aloqa from Marketplace?
I did and this has caused issues with my WIFI and Data connections getting all messed up.
Dharms said:
have you recently installed a programme called Aloqa from Marketplace?
I did and this has caused issues with my WIFI and Data connections getting all messed up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Aha, interesting!
I too am having problems with my HD2 randomly enabling data connection by itself and it's only started happening since I installed the 1.61 rom and/or Aloqa, however I uninstalled Aloqa a couple of days ago and it's still happening... ghosts in the machine! I would hate to have to hard reset especially since I spent hours setting up my phone with icons etc. and I'm otherwise very happy with it. Hope there's a resolution to this issue.
rustamg said:
This is a very peculiar problem i am facing in my hd2. The wifi connection settings as well as the data connection settings keep on changing automatically. At times after restart they work perfectly fine and stop otherwise automatically especially after a power failure , when the router rests again , the internet cant be connected.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you install hTC taskmanager?
There must be a registry hack.
Any solution to configure the GMS/UMTS Data-connection as permanent (useful for Voip)?
I am now testing this nice program here
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=286844
Edit2: Doesn't work for me after some hours of testing!
any help ??
Still ......... anybody ??
Hey there,
Got an S5 i bought in april and so far loving it but just recently about a day or 2 ago my phone keeps disconnecting and connecting when im at home on my WIFI which never happened before, has anyone had this issue before?
appreciate the help people
Godmyster said:
Hey there,
Got an S5 i bought in april and so far loving it but just recently about a day or 2 ago my phone keeps disconnecting and connecting when im at home on my WIFI which never happened before, has anyone had this issue before?
appreciate the help people
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do not have the issue, but maybe you can try this.
1. Open phone dialer (Phone App)
2. Dial *#0011#
3. The ServiceMode screen will be open. When it is open. Tap on menu button on top right.
4. Select "WiFi"
5. Find "WiFi Power Save Mode"
6. Press the "ON" button to turn the "WiFi Power Save Mode" off. (It will show as "OFF" if it is off)
7. Your WiFi will be off and on again.
8. Try to reconnect to the Wifi.
This didnt work still the same
Godmyster said:
This didnt work still the same
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You haven't got smart network switch turned on? (under WiFI settings) it'll do that if it thinks you WiFI connection isn't stable.
Godmyster said:
This didnt work still the same
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Set Google public DNS in your router
Ok i just found out its only doing it at home, i tried wifi and my work and it works perfectly doesnt disconnect and connect, but at home it does, though it never did it before and i didnt change or do anything to my router or my phone which i find very strange.
thanks for the help guys i appreciate it a lot, does anyone know what i can do?
have you found a fix to this yet? I'm having the same issue and getting ready to just return the phone and buy something else. My home network is fine, the other tablets, phones, laptops are having 0 issues, Yet my GS5 is either dropping or something, it seems to run horrible slow and things just time out.
Godmyster said:
does anyone know what i can do?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, and the reason that we don't know is that you didn't provide any useful details about your situation.
If you think that someone can do more than make a random guess implies that you think that there are only one or two possible causes. But most issues, including this one, have hundreds of possible causes. So random guesses are not terribly useful. Nor are we psychic, so the only way to efficiently narrow it down is to look for anomolies in your configuration. Which you haven't described.
You should be providing as much technical detail as possible, e.g. what is your home router model & it's firmware version and configuration details, phone firmware version, any specific error messages, any observed pattern, a logcat if you can and anything else that seems relevant.
Godmyster said:
Hey there,
Got an S5 i bought in april and so far loving it but just recently about a day or 2 ago my phone keeps disconnecting and connecting when im at home on my WIFI which never happened before, has anyone had this issue before?
appreciate the help people
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you tried changing the channel on your router?
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
Change the router channel
Change the router SSID
Default the router comfiguration
Change the router operating mode
Update the router firmware
Move the router to a different location
Use a different router
Unplug your neighbours new 50,000 watt pirate radio station
Update your phone firmware
Buy a different phone
Sacrifice a piece of triple chocolate gnocche cake to the pagan God of chocolate and wifi
All random guesses with roughly equivalent (and small) chances of success.
Or one could try troubleshooting the issue methodically.
.
Solution
Godmyster said:
Hey there,
Got an S5 i bought in april and so far loving it but just recently about a day or 2 ago my phone keeps disconnecting and connecting when im at home on my WIFI which never happened before, has anyone had this issue before?
appreciate the help people
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey guys,
I had this problem before, This is an issue with your samsung device and your ISP. They aren't compatible with each other.
Solution:
You must just block clients3.google.com in your modem/router. You can use Block Web Sites section in your modem/router.
Every thing has a solution.
Enjoy your device WIFI.
IranDev said:
Hey guys,
I had this problem before, This is an issue with your samsung device and your ISP. They aren't compatible with each other.
Solution:
You must just block clients3.google.com in your modem/router. You can use Block Web Sites section in your modem/router.
Every thing has a solution.
Enjoy your device WIFI.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have teh same issue on my S5 Cricket. The WIFI does NOT disconnect. Its connected however I don't have internet connection. Turning the WIFI on and OFF fixes the issue, for a short while until it happens again in an hour. Sometimes I slick on a link and wait and wait just to find out the darn WIFI is not connected to the internet. (probably not even connected to my router properly eg, I cant see my laptop shared drives for example).
This has something to do with saving battery or somthing. WIFI internals shut down, even though the icon on top of the screen still shows I'm connected.
Smart Network Switch
Godmyster said:
Hey there,
Got an S5 i bought in april and so far loving it but just recently about a day or 2 ago my phone keeps disconnecting and connecting when im at home on my WIFI which never happened before, has anyone had this issue before?
appreciate the help people
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your phone thinks that your WiFi is unstable and dumps the connection to go back to 4g. Why exactly, who knows, but it's easy to turn off the "smart" network switch. Simply hold down the WiFi icon for 2 seconds to get into the connections section. Right there at the top is the smart network switch section ... just uncheck the selection box. Easy.
Lastly, people like fffft need to get over themselves. The fix for the original poster's question was easy, but since fffft didn't know it, he decided to instead attack in order to make himself feel superior. How sad and pathetic does someone have to be to troll forums looking for opportunities to attack and belittle someone else?
minin0la said:
I do not have the issue, but maybe you can try this.
1. Open phone dialer (Phone App)
2. Dial *#0011#
3. The ServiceMode screen will be open. When it is open. Tap on menu button on top right.
4. Select "WiFi"
5. Find "WiFi Power Save Mode"
6. Press the "ON" button to turn the "WiFi Power Save Mode" off. (It will show as "OFF" if it is off)
7. Your WiFi will be off and on again.
8. Try to reconnect to the Wifi.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The issue is resolved simply by going to the advanced settings in Wifi and disabling 'Always allow scanning'.
Hope this helps.
same issue with my s5
Airax said:
You haven't got smart network switch turned on? (under WiFI settings) it'll do that if it thinks you WiFI connection isn't stable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had the same issue. I just tried the suggestion, turning of smart network switch in the wifi-advanced menu. Seems to be working so far!
Thanks!
Well I know that Smart Network is turning off wifi.. problem is that i have a fiber at home!! So what kind of problem smart network finds on my broadband?? ?
solution to wifi disconnect problem
I was looking for an answer to a different wi-fi question when I saw this.
I'm on AT&T with my S5.
Under the Wi-Fi settings I have an option for "Smart Network Switch" which says it Automatically switches between Wi-Fi and mobile networks to maintain a stable internet connection. Anytime a computer says it automatically does something for me; I typically say no thanks. I don't typically like my devices making assumptions of what I like, don't like or want to do. So I have that option unchecked. I never have an issue with the network stability once I've connected to a specific wi-fi connection.
Not sure if that will help you all or not. But thought I'd share.
so under Settings --> Quick Settings --> Wi-Fi you will find a check box option named "Smart network switch", untick it, this should take care of the problem.
leon.
Same problem
Hi, I have the same problem. Here some info:
- Device: Samsung Galaxy S5 (SM-G900F), Stock, not rooted
- Android version: 5.0
- Kernel version: 3.4.0-5640614 (2015-09-01)
- 'Smart network switch' is turned off
- 'Always allow scanning' is disabled
The problem started 2-3 days ago. When I turn on WiFi/WLAN the phone constantly turns it back off and on again. Didn't happen before, didn't change anything on the router (I have no access to it ) and didn't install a new app (as far as I can remember). I don't know if it only happens on this access point.
I made a log file (adb logcat) but am not sure if it contains sensitive information, is it save to share online?
The logcat doesn't contain any sensitive passwords.
816-8055 said:
Hi, I have the same problem. Here some info:
- Device: Samsung Galaxy S5 (SM-G900F), Stock, not rooted
- Android version: 5.0
- Kernel version: 3.4.0-5640614 (2015-09-01)
- 'Smart network switch' is turned off
- 'Always allow scanning' is disabled
The problem started 2-3 days ago. When I turn on WiFi/WLAN the phone constantly turns it back off and on again. Didn't happen before, didn't change anything on the router (I have no access to it ) and didn't install a new app (as far as I can remember). I don't know if it only happens on this access point.
I made a log file (adb logcat) but am not sure if it contains sensitive information, is it save to share online?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm have the exact same problem.
Samsung Galaxy S5 (SM-G900T)
CyanogenMod (13.0-20151203)
Android 6.0 (Marshmallow)
Baseband (G900TUVU1ANE6)
Smart network switch: disabled
Always allow scanning: disabled
What's happening is as soon as my Wi-Fi finishes authenticating and connects, it is immediately disconnected and tries again. No other devices in my house are having any issues, so that eliminates the router. When I factory reset my phone the Wi-Fi begins to work again, so that eliminates my phones hardware. The confusing part is that I installed a bunch of apps such as AdGuard that could possibly cause an issue but everything worked and this started out of nowhere. Also, I factory reset my phone AGAIN and AGAIN, everything worked and out of nowhere while I was looking at my screen while idling, I watched as the Wi-Fi connection dropped and began the disconnect/reconnect loop...
I'm assuming it has to be a software issue because it only started when I updated to a newer Cyanogen. I'm about to test if other Wi-Fi networks have this problem and I'm also going to look through and post a log.
If anyone has any questions or suggestions that may lead to a fix, PLEASE help!
Thanks
Well I factory reset again, this time wiping the internal storage and everything is now fine. I did look at my logcat and there were Wi-Fi errors but I forgot to post them...