Database Users

Will WM7 ever work on the BA?

Pretty much what the title says. Any speculation over whether we will get wm7 running?

we have so many fine chefs in the forum, i say YES to it.

i would say yes, but i am not quite sure, if i am sooo happy about it. i mean, i like wm6.5 and looove the BA, but even in wm6.1 and of course now in wm6.5 there are many things additional that many people want for their phones but the os alone can't help it, many things are only available for vga/wvga devices and even if we can make the ui better and make it look nice, a BA will never become the same as the "big" phones like touch diamond, touch hd...
you can do a lot with the device and even add a lot of features, that's what i always try to explain to my friends. the software features of a wm phone are basicly all the same, there is a lot of potential in each and every device, the things that really matter when buying a new device is the hardware specs: wlan, accelerometer... things you can't install afterwards.
in conclusion i would say wm7 will work o the BA, but i doubt that you can use the full experience, since the resolution of qvga might not be enough for most add-on apps, and without accelerometer, light sensor and other gimmicks, maybe some basic ui features might be missing.
i think this is going to be a very interesting thread, thx hardingt0110
Chef_Tony

Well i can not answer this yet, when WM7 is publically available and more developers have fixes for core and driver issues which will emerge with the new CE OS it may be remotely possible
But for now my answer is NO, we will not see WM7 in Blueangel, the new CE core will be incompatible, a BA ce core should be generated via platform builder and the blueangel BSP, also all drivers must be rewritten from scratch, and noone outside HTC and Microsoft have the BSP,and (i only talk for myself here) i do not have such development skills to do it

I think the answer is may be work,I dont understand the mechanism of the internal properties and small details of the BA hardware, but for long time they said there is no wm 5 for magician(i mate jam),before like a month a russian developer called cotulla made it and now the wm 6.1 runs at magician.
really we trust that BA developers will make it too.

xplode said:
Well i can not answer this yet, when WM7 is publically available and more developers have fixes for core and driver issues which will emerge with the new CE OS it may be remotely possible
But for now my answer is NO, we will not see WM7 in Blueangel, the new CE core will be incompatible, a BA ce core should be generated via platform builder and the blueangel BSP, also all drivers must be rewritten from scratch, and noone outside HTC and Microsoft have the BSP,and (i only talk for myself here) i do not have such development skills to do it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How many times have we gone over the same things? I believe that over the last 4 years, I have seen this post and thread (similar anyways) as many times as M$ has come up with/announced a new OS. Same reasons that xplode listed here too...
*different core
*drivers not the same
*hardware is different
and so on and so forth....
Have some faith people... our devices still pack a powerful punch and I don't think the world has seen the last flight of the Blue Angels just yet. So what if we can't tilt the device back and forth? Trust me, I have been using this acceleromenter feature on the Fuze and I am not that impressed. Besides, I am almost certain that something can be created to replace it. The only thing that I would not mind seeing would be multitouch screen, in which case, I would have to admit... we are screwed
Look at it this way guys, many of us have the SX66 variant of the BA, which means no camera. If we were able to get by without cameras for this long (that is for the ones that are still holding onto their dear BA's), I guess we can do away with a few things here and there...
Look into the future with sunglasses ladies and gents, it is gonna be a bright one

well the hardware may support WM7 but there is no software upgrade (core and drivers) for this hardware
take a look at alpine still have no upgrade from WM 2003 and it is powerful device
well in latest OS-es they al are based on CE5 (WM5 - CE5.1, WM6(including 6.1 and 6.5) - CE5.2) so the core is almost the same it was made run with few hex edits, and drivers are the same ones from WM5. For WM7 we now have new CE OS everything is difrend there.

xplode said:
well the hardware may support WM7 but there is no software upgrade (core and drivers) for this hardware
take a look at alpine still have no upgrade from WM 2003 and it is powerful device
well in latest OS-es they al are based on CE5 (WM5 - CE5.1, WM6(including 6.1 and 6.5) - CE5.2) so the core is almost the same it was made run with few hex edits, and drivers are the same ones from WM5. For WM7 we now have new CE OS everything is difrend there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's true, but I don't think the Alpine ever had too many "enthusiasts" or at least not as many as the Himalaya or the BA. You are right about the specs though... powerful indeed, but I guess since it came out around the birth of the BA, lots of people went for the extra added bulk of the keyboard. Long story short, if you don't have too many devs on it, there isn't much to do...
My two cents

Yeah you are right, but i just gave it as example
We have 6.5 now because we had WM5, but we will have WM7 only if there is such rom made in microsoft and leaked in the process

xplode said:
Yeah you are right, but i just gave it as example
We have 6.5 now because we had WM5, but we will have WM7 only if there is such rom made in microsoft and leaked in the process
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Like that has never happened before ... I mean, I normally think of M$ as a humongous strainer or a really bad filter

egzthunder1 said:
Like that has never happened before ... I mean, I normally think of M$ as a humongous strainer or a really bad filter
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well from what I've seen and after working for some related companies, I really don't believe in such thing as a "leak", its done on purpose. Reasons? Free Advertising, creates expectation, free testing w/o risk to "the company", etc, etc, etc. Just look at it that way, and you'll understand me better

xplode said:
Well i can not answer this yet, when WM7 is publically available and more developers have fixes for core and driver issues which will emerge with the new CE OS it may be remotely possible
But for now my answer is NO, we will not see WM7 in Blueangel, the new CE core will be incompatible, a BA ce core should be generated via platform builder and the blueangel BSP, also all drivers must be rewritten from scratch, and noone outside HTC and Microsoft have the BSP,and (i only talk for myself here) i do not have such development skills to do it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
xplode is just being modest here, sun_dream and helmi_c is probably smiling behind his back now

Even though WM7 may not be able to run on BA due to different core, drivers, etc, I do have faith and believe in developers!

When will WM7 be released... any ideas?

shaper said:
When will WM7 be released... any ideas?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I doubt anyone could answer you that, google for your answer.

imatrix said:
I doubt anyone could answer you that, google for your answer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have googled many times, not one site can give a real answer, some report the last quarter or last year..lol. Perhaps one of the talented people here may have a better insight

noone can give definite answer to that because veen the people at MS are no sure yet, but suggested date is sometime autumn 2010

xplode said:
noone can give definite answer to that because veen the people at MS are no sure yet, but suggested date is sometime autumn 2010
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks Explode, was hoping that my phone upgrade in June might have been with WM7!! And thank you for all the hard work and advice you give us!!

Though I am a fan of Windows Mobile OS, but I still question why do we need new releases from M$? Have you seen any new features and considerable improvements since its release as WM 2003 in the year 2003? Answer is a clear NO, features offered in 2003 ans features offered now after 6 years are exactly the same. I am sure WM7 release will be a big disappointment too. WM6.5 is clearly showing lack of innovations and introduction of new features. Home screen of 6.5 is a big disappointment, today;s screen has made life more complex and omg introduction of honeycomb proved us that how simple interfaces could be made more complex, lock screen is buggy etc etc.
WM has been a leader in smart phones since long but why a newcomer like iPhone could easily push WM years behind the innovations. iPhone clearly proved that even though there are less features packed into it, but whatever is packed is reliable and very user friendly and thats what is appreciated by customers. We are still struggling to resolve wifi issues in wm. PIE or WMP can not stream popular YouTube videos. M2D offers much superior user interface though heavy on memory. I have yet to see a new innovative feature in WM. thats why I ask why do we need another version of WM. M$ team is just chasing features introduced by other players like touchFlo, touch zoom, multiple touches.. If next version of iPhone release in this June offers maps with text to speech directions, WM release will be pushed back by one more year. I am sure new version of iPhone will offer many more new features and I simply pity lack of innovations and leading innovations at M$ house. Chasing behind someone will never give a lead.
I wish M$ has hidden agenda for 6.5 as well for wm7 else I dont see any point in going for WM7 in the near future except if i want to say I have the latest windows mobile on my BA.
I think the topic of this thread should be changed to 'Will we ever need WM7?"

overall from WM5 to WM6.5 there are a lot under the hood improvements, but the UI was almost the same, this will change in WM7
well to answer your question i will say this (this is my personal opinion)
Yes i need constant change so yes i need the change to WM7, but if you as is it worth to upgrade to WM7 i can not answer yet and noone outside microsoft can at this moment

manga reader?

hi all, is there an app that allows me to read mangas online? sort of like what mango does for the blackberry?

anything anyone? anything at all?

Hi there, Mango developer here. Was googling my app and found this thread, so I just figured I'd mention this: I'm about halfway done with a (albeit watered-down) WinMo port of Mango. It wasn't terribly difficult since Java is very similar to C#, but there are a lot of differences between the .NET Compact Framework and the BlackBerry API so I've hit a couple roadblocks, main one being the pageviewer.
The target platform is PocketPC 2003, so if I can get it to run on my piece of **** 6 year old HP iPaq it'll run on a Rhodium without much complaint, hopefully.
The main problem with the Windows Mobile port is the pageviewer. BlackBerry has support for panning around an image with the touchscreen built in, whereas WinMo (or at least 2003) requires you to manually drag the scrollbars or use the D-Pad on the device. >_> I will try to write a custom imageviewer that allows for scrolling but I don't think it will work all that well.
Also, the only Windows Mobile devices I have are that crappy old iPaq and a Treo 600w, and both of them have very little RAM. I'm worried that Mango's high-res scans won't play nice with those devices' limited memory.
One more thing... the Rhodium (which I am guessing is the device you want to run Mango on) is Windows Mobile right?

Yes, it runs Windows Mobile 6.1 Professional. The rhodium DOES have touch panning also.

anidamo said:
Also, the only Windows Mobile devices I have are that crappy old iPaq and a Treo 600w, and both of them have very little RAM. I'm worried that Mango's high-res scans won't play nice with those devices' limited memory.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One big problem with Windows Mobile is the fact that it is years and years old, with dozens of versions, from crappy hardware and low resolutions to the newer specs and high-res. The iPhone and Blackberry's don't have this problem because of their 'young' age.
If you're developing for WindowsMobile, I would really recommend not trying to develop for OLD OLD devices like your iPaq. What's the point? Your target audience isn't going to be using such old devices like that, and you're just making your life harder for yourself.
Also, don't make your program rely on a D-Pad, as many newer touchscreen devices don't have one!!
Don't develop for WindowsMobile Smartphones (which don't have touchscreen's) but develop for WindowsMobile PocketPC's (which all have touchscreens). Develop for WindowsMobile 6.0 Pro or 6.1, because WinMo 6.5 is about to come out in a few months, and WinMo 7 within a year.
Don't restrict yourself and make your developing harder. Sorry if I sound like I'm coming on high or hard here, but I'm kinda sick of seeing applications that are so limited because they are trying to cater for decade old software and mobiles. Do what the iPhone does. Make a break and start afresh =)
Good luck!!

If you don't mind reading mangas "offline" there's always Comic Reader Mobi.

leginag said:
One big problem with Windows Mobile is the fact that it is years and years old, with dozens of versions, from crappy hardware and low resolutions to the newer specs and high-res. The iPhone and Blackberry's don't have this problem because of their 'young' age.
If you're developing for WindowsMobile, I would really recommend not trying to develop for OLD OLD devices like your iPaq. What's the point? Your target audience isn't going to be using such old devices like that, and you're just making your life harder for yourself.
Also, don't make your program rely on a D-Pad, as many newer touchscreen devices don't have one!!
Don't develop for WindowsMobile Smartphones (which don't have touchscreen's) but develop for WindowsMobile PocketPC's (which all have touchscreens). Develop for WindowsMobile 6.0 Pro or 6.1, because WinMo 6.5 is about to come out in a few months, and WinMo 7 within a year.
Don't restrict yourself and make your developing harder. Sorry if I sound like I'm coming on high or hard here, but I'm kinda sick of seeing applications that are so limited because they are trying to cater for decade old software and mobiles. Do what the iPhone does. Make a break and start afresh =)
Good luck!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You make a very valid point. I haven't used WinMo in a long time so I haven't kept up with anything past version 5, and I didn't know how significant the differences were in versions 6 and 6.1 when compared to the devices I'm used to. (since WinMo pretty much stood still from versions 2002-5.0 I just assumed things were the same as ever. hurray for competition getting Microsoft of their asses!)
Though I don't have any 6.0-compatible devices to test on, I will bump up my target platform to 6.0 with .NETCF 3.5 and rely on the emulators. You're right, it really is just a bad headache to write apps for six year old devices with 15 megs of app memory, thanks for opening my eyes heh.

any eta available for the winmo version? i'd be more than willing to help test it =]

hi
if you need a hand with the c# on windows mobile let me know.
I work a lot with it and I think I know this thing pretty well now.
Even if i am pretty busy i probably can save you a lot of time.
pm me if you need

Me again, sorry for the month-old gravedig. I haven't been working on Mango WinMo recently but I've started writing it again for WM6/.NET3.5. Hopefully I'll have a usable version out soon, but no promises. I've also decided to get a TP2 to replace my stolen BlackBerry Storm so maybe that'll give me some incentive to code faster.
Also, if anyone knows of any UI libraries I can use to spruce up the buttons and controls, that would be great. WinMo suuuure is ugly >_>

Well, supposedly the new 6.5 provides for a nicer UI and buttons.
I look forward to your app and I hope you enjoy your new TP2

anidamo said:
Me again, sorry for the month-old gravedig. I haven't been working on Mango WinMo recently but I've started writing it again for WM6/.NET3.5. Hopefully I'll have a usable version out soon, but no promises. I've also decided to get a TP2 to replace my stolen BlackBerry Storm so maybe that'll give me some incentive to code faster.
Also, if anyone knows of any UI libraries I can use to spruce up the buttons and controls, that would be great. WinMo suuuure is ugly >_>
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really nice of you to bump this thread =)
Here's one TP2-user, who is really waiting for this app. I'm a bit tired to drag around two devices; PSP with custom firmware to read manga and TP2 for everything else.
Much kudos for ya ^^
And for the UI, I hope that upcoming official (if you hesitate to use custom ROMs) 6.5 update for TP2 will spruce things up for you to more liking

Acidemus said:
Really nice of you to bump this thread =)
Here's one TP2-user, who is really waiting for this app. I'm a bit tired to drag around two devices; PSP with custom firmware to read manga and TP2 for everything else.
Much kudos for ya ^^
And for the UI, I hope that upcoming official (if you hesitate to use custom ROMs) 6.5 update for TP2 will spruce things up for you to more liking
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this makes two us ... exact same setup ... psp for reading and tp2 for everything else ....

HTC WM 6.5 Lobby Group

Considering the number of users of the Blackstone in this forum PLUS the other enthusiast sites such as modaco.com and htcpedia.com should we not start up a lobby group to petition HTC to get access to the WM 6.5 upgrade PLUS new SENSE GUI ???
I understand the HD2 is on it's way - but a lot of us waited for the release of the HD and supported HTC by purchasing it....at very least we could get the 6.5 upgrade OR an update to the TF3D (i.e. SENSE) interface...
Any thoughts ???
Asp

Agree. They should give us at least the new GUI.

Aspi914 said:
Considering the number of users of the Blackstone in this forum PLUS the other enthusiast sites such as modaco.com and htcpedia.com should we not start up a lobby group to petition HTC to get access to the WM 6.5 upgrade PLUS new SENSE GUI ???
I understand the HD2 is on it's way - but a lot of us waited for the release of the HD and supported HTC by purchasing it....at very least we could get the 6.5 upgrade OR an update to the TF3D (i.e. SENSE) interface...
Any thoughts ???
Asp
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. Not because I want a wm6.5 update with htc sense from them (there are already plenty here), but because how they sidelined us, users of the "older" touch hd, touch pro and diamond. It wasn't that long ago, HTC. Don't try to justify yourself. Imagine paying big bucks for a HTC Touch HD 5 months back and now you read a statement from HTC that they won't be providing updates for you cause you're using an "older" device.
I mean, c'mon. Don't treat us like rubbish. We helped you to become what you are today. From a nobody in Taiwan, to the number one producer of windows mobile phones. The Blackstone was only released about a year ago (or less, to be exact). Did you really expect us to keep changing devices every couple of months? No offense to TD2 and TP2 users but the spec sheets of these "newer" aren't any different from the Blackstone's! Benchmark results may prove otherwise but the bottom line is, the guys from HTC releases new phones every now and then which has little or even no improvement from the devices their replacing and they expect us to keep up. wth.

I agree with abubakar comments...
abubakar said:
....and now you read a statement from HTC that they won't be providing updates for you cause you're using an "older" device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're right about the "Older" reference - My phone is 6 months old and I have to read comments like http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=8773
abubakar said:
The Blackstone was only released about a year ago (or less, to be exact). Did you really expect us to keep changing devices every couple of months?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And again you make a valid point - they should have an 18 month minimum on platform updates / enhancements.
When you go to the HTC website for support - for example "HTC Touch HD ROM Upgrade (For Telstra)" they quote that "As always, HTC is committed to providing customers with the best possible mobile experience"
Is access to either WM 6.5 or HTC Sense an example of "HTC is committed to providing customers with the best possible mobile experience"

Anthony Petts is the Sales and Marketing Director ANZ for HTC Corporation - Any one got any contact details for him ?

Can't really see a petition doing any good. The HD is a great device but it isd starting to be over shadowed by newer devices which HTC want us to buy instead of giving us updates for free. Why would they change this when they don't need to!!

I know that I'm very dissapointed in HTC and that I'll probably never buy new phone from them. Their support is very bad and there is so many new phones, so... I'm totally confused which I should buy for example. I have Blackstone and that's probably tha last phone I'll have from HTC.

Having been the owner of both the htc touch cruise and the hd 8282 I will say that htc customer support is a bad as I have ever seen from a mobile phone manufacturer.
Seems as though once you have purchase the device they forget about you. I have made my mistake twice and will not do the same again. I guess I will bite the bullet and get an Iphone unfortunately.

I have to say that I'm on about my 5th HTC device and only once have I had to speak with HTC support and they where pretty good. My old Prophet had a problem in that it was stuck in headphone mode! HTC replaced the mainboard and had it back to me in about 12 days.
With regards to updates to WM6.5 for example, if you brought a PC from HP with Vista on it do you think they would give you a free copy of Windows 7 when it got released? No they wouldn't so I'm not sure why people expect HTC to do the same thing?
What would be interesting is if Microsoft made available for purchase the latest build when they release them but then of coarse you'd be left with just a vanila OS and none of HTCs own apps. Unless HTC went down the route of making available all their apps in a similar way HP and the like do for PCs?
PS - I'll also be buying a new HTC device when the time comes!

crankshaft said:
PS - I'll also be buying a new HTC device when the time comes!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
maybe after the 1st intro of WM7?
6.5 sucks for me
and if Microsoft not gonna do anything about improvement then HD is my last WM device

It seems to me that if you buy a phone with a certain level of capability (or system software level) you have a reasonable expectation to support to maintain that level. Unless it's part of your contract at purchase, it is unreasonable to expect new software and enhanced functionality.
I'm not being funny, but I've seen similar calls many times over the last fifteen years. I've never yet seen them be effective. One of the most frustrating examples of this is the powerful video hardware, totally unsupported by drivers on a large number of HTC devices. Massive campaigns - no substantive action.
I mention this as a warning to people considering a new purchase from HTC, like for example the the new HD2 - it's a great looking hardware platform, that the OS doesn't natively support. Doesn't it feel like we've been here before?
I'm not buying another HTC device until the capability of the hardware is fully exposed, in a consistent way via the systems software, for use in applications. I don't see any of the HTC WM devices where this is not some level of an issue, in fact the last phone that I had from HTC, that didn't give me some cause for concern in this regard was Tytn.
From now on I'm only buying finshed, well integrated, mobile devices. I want to spend my time and money exploiting their potential and adding features I need.....not trying got get them to work properly and overcome limitations in the release state of the device. I'm drawing a line in the sand, right here.....

trentend said:
It seems to me that if you buy a phone with a certain level of capability (or system software level) you have a reasonable expectation to support to maintain that level. Unless it's part of your contract at purchase, it is unreasonable to expect new software and enhanced functionality.
I'm not being funny, but I've seen similar calls many times over the last fifteen years. I've never yet seen them be effective. One of the most frustrating examples of this is the powerful video hardware, totally unsupported by drivers on a large number of HTC devices. Massive campaigns - no substantive action.
I mention this as a warning to people considering a new purchase from HTC, like for example the the new HD2 - it's a great looking hardware platform, that the OS doesn't natively support. Doesn't it feel like we've been here before?
I'm not buying another HTC device until the capability of the hardware is fully exposed, in a consistent way via the systems software, for use in applications. I don't see any of the HTC WM devices where this is not some level of an issue, in fact the last phone that I had from HTC, that didn't give me some cause for concern in this regard was Tytn.
From now on I'm only buying finshed, well integrated, mobile devices. I want to spend my time and money exploiting their potential and adding features I need.....not trying got get them to work properly and overcome limitations in the release state of the device. I'm drawing a line in the sand, right here.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 I couldn't agree more! I'll be keeping an eye on the forums for the new phones and unless I'm satisfied HTC are finally using an operating system that can fully utilise their great hardware, this will be my last HTC device.

+1 to the OP, and I'm behind the line in the sand too

I read somewhere that if the phone does not have windows start logo button on it, chances are slim that you get 6.5 update. Touch HD has that button missing.

i prefer a good non official cooked (wm6.5) rom than an official one
So it don't really matter for me.... but i still think that's a shame!!

crankshaft
Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 246
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have to say that I'm on about my 5th HTC device and only once have I had to speak with HTC support and they where pretty good. My old Prophet had a problem in that it was stuck in headphone mode! HTC replaced the mainboard and had it back to me in about 12 days.
With regards to updates to WM6.5 for example, if you brought a PC from HP with Vista on it do you think they would give you a free copy of Windows 7 when it got released? No they wouldn't so I'm not sure why people expect HTC to do the same thing?
What would be interesting is if Microsoft made available for purchase the latest build when they release them but then of coarse you'd be left with just a vanila OS and none of HTCs own apps. Unless HTC went down the route of making available all their apps in a similar way HP and the like do for PCs?
PS - I'll also be buying a new HTC device when the time comes!
__________________
--------------------
HTC Blackstone
--------------------
if u bought a pc with vista they are offering windows 7 at a reduced rate to ya so why not do that with windows 6.5?????????????????????????

jonpickles70 said:
if u bought a pc with vista they are offering windows 7 at a reduced rate to ya so why not do that with windows 6.5?????????????????????????
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because very few would pay for it, making it a waste of their time.
Besides, their business is selling new phones. Why cannibalise the sales of newer models by upgrading older ones?

crankshaft said:
With regards to updates to WM6.5 for example, if you brought a PC from HP with Vista on it do you think they would give you a free copy of Windows 7 when it got released? No they wouldn't so I'm not sure why people expect HTC to do the same thing?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In many cases they do - prior to Vista release and again with Windows 7 there are machines that are enjoying upgrades once the new software is released - sure HTC are doing it with select devices as well - but you have to admit that with the HD being just 6 months old (...in Australia anyway...) that it would be fare to deem it acceptable to offer an upgrade....
crankshaft said:
What would be interesting is if Microsoft made available for purchase the latest build when they release them but then of coarse you'd be left with just a vanila OS and none of HTCs own apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree with your comments here - and I would have no problem paying a reasonable fee to upgrade to 6.5 and HTC SENSE.

For me, i'd rather have a rom update with all the new focntionnalities of the TF3D ( newer version or even Sense UI perhaps !), bug fixes, etc. than a 6.5 windows for the touch HD with all the old things.... what windows 6.5 really brings to us ? a new start menu ? what else.... less memory usage.. i don't think... faster ? don't know really cause 'im not an expert, but didn't really see anything new interesting... and of course anything an application can do, freeware of course and without having to cook a ROM...
So, my point of view.. i'd rather have a new rom on old windows but optimized and with new fonctionalities !
Ciao
Fred

arfster said:
Because very few would pay for it, making it a waste of their time.
Besides, their business is selling new phones. Why cannibalise the sales of newer models by upgrading older ones?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ever heard of a company called Apple and a phone called the iPhone?
Why should I buy the HD2, which will become out-of-date as soon as WM7 arrives in a few months, when I can get an iPhone and free software upgrades for life?
HTC need to become more customer focussed and pay more attention to the competition.
However realistically I don't think a petition will work. Falling market share might though.

Sick of the Winmo 7 discussion

Why o why?
The specs are good, so why can't we all get offically the wm7 upgrade?
I know there will be custom roms but no offence to the developpers, they are all ****ty. Every custom rom I had I need to hard reset my device every two weeks so that won't be a option for me anymore.
MICROSOFT PLEASE DON'T BE STUPID!!!!
Why does windows mobile 7 not on the HD2?
Greetz,
Fabian1985

Fabian1985 said:
Why o why?
The specs are good, so why can't we all get offically the wm7 upgrade?
I know there will be custom roms but no offence to the developpers, they are all ****ty. Every custom rom I had I need to hard reset my device every two weeks so that won't be a option for me anymore.
MICROSOFT PLEASE DON'T BE STUPID!!!!
Why does windows mobile 7 not on the HD2?
Greetz,
Fabian1985
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Specs are good, but hardware requirements are not met by the HD2, now what does that mean, well it means that HTC did not look ahead, and used the wrong button configuration on the phone, so it is outside the spec of what MS says is required for WP7.
So yes we are Officially screwed out of WP7 because of the buttons on our phones .....
I doubt MS is going to change their requirements for the very few existing WinMo phones that have the CPU and RAM to handle WP7.

The hard resetting you have to do every couple weeks may have more to do with WinMo 6.5.x than the fact that it's a custom ROM. I'm sure we'll get near-stock WP7 ROMs that will function much better than what we currently have. Don't lament before we even have anything on that front.

I don't think wp7 will even be a viable option for most of us anyways (at least the initial release). Very locked down, sounds a lot like the first iphone. I'm hoping they update quickly and open it up (at least every 2-3 months), but I wouldn't hold my breath.
That is why I decided to take the plunge with the hd2. Figured it would be a couple of years before I was ready to jump on wp7. (though that 1.5ghz snapdragon htc sounds interesting and apparently is coming to t-mobile...)

chuck232 said:
The hard resetting you have to do every couple weeks may have more to do with WinMo 6.5.x than the fact that it's a custom ROM. I'm sure we'll get near-stock WP7 ROMs that will function much better than what we currently have. Don't lament before we even have anything on that front.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ow is it? Cuz now I still work with my HTC Raph100 with those custom roms I talked about. I'm hoping to unbox my Leo begin this week.
So are the roms better now for the Leo?
Greetz,
Fabian1985

When I go to the offical windows mobile 7 home page..the first thing I see is the HTC Leo!!!
p.s. Sorry for the image size :$
Greetz,
Fabian1985

im still trying to work out why anyone would WANT wp7 on their hd2. itd be like putting Windows 1.0 on an Alienware pc. im sure there will be custom roms if you wanna have a glorified Instinct, but just cause something is new doesnt mean its better. why would you want to cripple this powerhouse phone with that dumbed-down software? doyou actually WANT to be able to do less with it???

im still trying to work out why anyone would WANT wp7 on their hd2. itd be like putting Windows 1.0 on an Alienware pc. im sure there will be custom roms if you wanna have a glorified Instinct, but just cause something is new doesnt mean its better. why would you want to cripple this powerhouse phone with that dumbed-down software? doyou actually WANT to be able to do less with it???

The reason I want to have It Is this:
I read that Windows Mobile 6.5 is based on all the old previous versions, based on CE blabla (I don't know It exactly anymore) so there Is alot of old junk that is not needed anymore.
The new Winmo 7 is totally new so therefore It should be allot faster then all the previous versions.
Please tell me If I'm wrong..
Greetz,
Fabian1985

For me, tinkering is fun, but that is not the main function of my work device. I want it to work, and work well. If that means giving up a couple features, features which I can live without, then I'll play ball. WP7 has been built from the ground up with a very different goal than Windows Mobile, which had the original goal of bringing the PC to a PDA format. I don't need that, and the functionality that is associated with that goal gets in the way of usability for my purposes. If your use cases do not match up with what WP7 is capable of, so be it, but know that the vast majority of customers aren't tinkerers and tweakers.

Fabian1985 said:
The reason I want to have It Is this:
I read that Windows Mobile 6.5 is based on all the old previous versions, based on CE blabla (I don't know It exactly anymore) so there Is alot of old junk that is not needed anymore.
The new Winmo 7 is totally new so therefore It should be allot faster then all the previous versions.
Please tell me If I'm wrong..
Greetz,
Fabian1985
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"alot of old junk" in WM 6.5? Oh yes - like copy & paste, and proper multitasking? If you think that's junk, you'll love WP7.
iPhone OS v1 was rubbish. v4 finally has most of what you actually need and what WM has had for years. Same with Android - the first versions were severly lacking in many areas. Only now is it coming into it's own at v2.2.
Anyone should be able to see that since it's a completely new OS, WP7 will be equally as rubbish as the iPhone and Android offerings were at initial release.

yes, BUT WM still misses a lot of stuff such as gfx libs for better programs...
like ballmer says... they need to lure Developers Developers Developers somehow...
iPhone is #1 because of apps... WM is last only because of apps... and WM7 is taking sooo long because MS's management SUCKS... they seriously need to hire someone better to get thier mobile dept straightened... look at kin... what it could have been if only those devs were still part of wp7...

drownage said:
yes, BUT WM still misses a lot of stuff such as gfx libs for better programs...
like ballmer says... they need to lure Developers Developers Developers somehow...
iPhone is #1 because of apps... WM is last only because of apps... and WM7 is taking sooo long because MS's management SUCKS... they seriously need to hire someone better to get thier mobile dept straightened... look at kin... what it could have been if only those devs were still part of wp7...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They put in Terry Myerson a bit more than a year ago, but thanks anyways for the un-researched comment. He's been spearheading the reset efforts in WP7. Some like him, some don't. I'll reserve and judgment until WP7 is launched and tested in the market.

This is a stupid and pointless thread.

Fabian1985 said:
Why o why?
The specs are good, so why can't we all get offically the wm7 upgrade?
I know there will be custom roms but no offence to the developpers, they are all ****ty. Every custom rom I had I need to hard reset my device every two weeks so that won't be a option for me anymore.
MICROSOFT PLEASE DON'T BE STUPID!!!!
Why does windows mobile 7 not on the HD2?
Greetz,
Fabian1985
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Be patient and wait for WM Phone 7 to come out! Once it's out you / HD2 will get the chance.

Kalavere said:
This is a stupid and pointless thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, yes it is now, did not start out that way, but a discussion is one thing ...
But when people have convinced themselves of something , and just want to argue the point it is no longer a discussion ...
1.) HD2 Specs are great, but HTC did not adhere to What MS has released as specs for WP7, so HTC screwed us out of an Official WP7.
2.) MS specs for WP7 were released(but not to the public) before the HD2 was , so MS is not inclined or obligated to change their specs to fit the HD2
3.) We actually have 1 too many buttons on the HD2 but None of them are the almighty "Search" button, so again the HD2 is outside the spec so no official WP7.

watcher64 said:
Well, yes it is now, did not start out that way, but a discussion is one thing ...
But when people have convinced themselves of something , and just want to argue the point it is no longer a discussion ...
1.) HD2 Specs are great, but HTC did not adhere to What MS has released as specs for WP7, so HTC screwed us out of an Official WP7.
2.) MS specs for WP7 were released(but not to the public) before the HD2 was , so MS is not inclined or obligated to change their specs to fit the HD2
3.) We actually have 1 too many buttons on the HD2 but None of them are the almighty "Search" button, so again the HD2 is outside the spec so no official WP7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, the Euro version of the HD2 was released before the announcement of WP7. Still, I'm not sure if HTC was made aware of the requirements by the time they were already far along in the design of the HD2.

chuck232 said:
Actually, the Euro version of the HD2 was released before the announcement of WP7. Still, I'm not sure if HTC was made aware of the requirements by the time they were already far along in the design of the HD2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had heard about the 3 button some time early last year, but you are right that may have been after the design and during the production phase of the HD2.
MS did not make an Official release of the specs till I think January of this year, I think that is when it was.
Either way , you can blame HTC, you can blame MS, but, it is true for any piece of technology, CPU's that keep changing sockets, Video Cards that keep changing standards, DVD/Blu-Ray standards the list goes, on ...
I mean providers are not going to change what they decide to to with regards to their specs and requirements just because people scream, I mean why can't I run Iphone OS on my HD2(not that I want to ), because it is not compatible, even though the HD2 out powers most Iphones, and just because Apple says NO.
I suggest, instead of getting all up in arms here, and bashing people for their views you contact MS and HTC and complain to them, not that it will get you anywhere, just as posting here is just gonna start a big discussion, but not fix it anyway.

chuck232 said:
They put in Terry Myerson a bit more than a year ago, but thanks anyways for the un-researched comment. He's been spearheading the reset efforts in WP7. Some like him, some don't. I'll reserve and judgment until WP7 is launched and tested in the market.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, sorry I meant more like management a while ago... 1 year ago is still much after iPhone released... they should have done something like WP7 from the beginning and if management wasn't an issue, I doubt we would see two different teams for mobile in the first place: Kin and WP7... I do agree however, management is seeming much better now...
EDIT: also, for hardware keys, all we're missing is the search button... since wp7 will have windows button go to the tiles screen which is also the home, we can map the home screen to search (Kind of implying home page aka bing/search)? If they wanted MS could have easily added official support, but i am sure HTC influenced them to do that... since that would mean HD3 sales for them... ahh if only i were rich :-/...

drownage said:
EDIT: also, for hardware keys, all we're missing is the search button... since wp7 will have windows button go to the tiles screen which is also the home, we can map the home screen to search (Kind of implying home page aka bing/search)? If they wanted MS could have easily added official support, but i am sure HTC influenced them to do that... since that would mean HD3 sales for them... ahh if only i were rich :-/...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, and I am sure some of the smart guys here will do just that for our custom WP7 ...

Where do we go from here?

i've noticed in the last few weeks that new rom releases became more and more alike and basicaly no much novelty lately
chefs use the same packages and almost the same tweaks, meaning the roms are almost similar in performance. what differentiate them is just the looks, but that is a matter of taste and one can soon get bored by a certain look
microsft will probably drop 6.5.x after wm7 will be launched (very soon)
i tried few android roms on my hd2 and i can't say android represents an alternative for me
i assume it will be the same with wm7 even if people will port it to hd, considering the limitations
so, what do you think guys? are we in a dead point?
WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE?
thank you for sharing your opinions!
regards

microsoft has already promised further support for winmo 6.5.x, which is supported by the upcoming release of a 6.5.x industrial phone forth coming. With any luck, we will at least be able to get future ROM bases from them.

As long as WinMO 6.5.x is supported, I will continue using that in conjunction with Artemis ROM. Android is also not my thing and what I've seen from Win7, does not make me happy.
However, I think Artemis ROM is somewhat different to other ROM's
regards, Kuzibri

Winmo isn't just used in phones, you would be amazed at how many non-"phone" devices its used in by industry.
Did you know for example that the Ultra Baggage Reconciliation System uses windows mobile? Thats right, pretty much anywhere in the modern world where you fly from, your bags are scanned into an aircraft/uld using windows mobile!
Many other industries use it as well.... including storage, parcel couriers, mail companies, supermarkets, taxi firms ... the list can go on.
With this kind of user base and licensing, MS won't throw away Winmo quickly!
(MS have (probably) had a lot of financial success with WinMo over the years, its not just a phone!)
edit: i'm into systems integration and industrial automation, I have seen winmo installed myself in these environments and often used the devices.

You might consider SPB Mobile Shell 5.0 when it's available if you fancy a change..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNO7lL7g6pc&feature=player_embedded
http://spb.com/press/pressreleases/...-shell-5.0-for-manufactures-and-carriers.html

I'm hoping, with the birth of Co0kie's mod 2.0, that we may see a surge in ROMs.
I agree that for the last six months, most released ROMs have been "close to stock", which is fine, but there seems a limit on what tweaks can be made, and visually most are very similar.
But now I'm really hoping for loads of Theme-packs, novel uses of the homepage, new widgets, etc. I'm hoping that once 2.0 is finalised, these forums are going to explode!!
So far tho, there's just been some wallpapers, the "fore-skin" , and a few icon-packs. But hopefully stuff is brewing...

i think we are pretty much in a dead point. MS has probably promised to further support MS 6.x, but do you honestly think that that would be the case once WM 7 is out? I think the whole WM team is fully concentrated on the launch of WM7 and will be busy with further upgrades. i might be wrong but i don't expect anything from MS. frankly saying i feel that MS does not give a monkey's about WM 6.x users. If they did, they could offer a free upgrade of WM7 to HD2 owners. I know you will think about the 5 physical buttons, the new kernel and etc, but if the company really cared, that upgrade would not be a problem taking into consideration HD2's specs. We all bash Apple for whatever reasons, but you have to give credit to them for supporting even outdated iphone 3g with new iOS updates.

I understand MS when they require all phones to have certain specs, buttons etc.
The idea being that WP7 updates will work on all certified phones regardless of OEM, phone model, etc.
Consider this system continuing into the future, Windows Phone 8, 9 and so on - and the upgrade path will always be there...
Catering for other models doesn't make sense. That's what great communities like XDA are for.
(Having said that - I don't even have an HD2. I'm waiting to test WP7 before I decide if it's for me. If it isn't, I'll pick up a now cheaper HD2. That's why I'm watching these forums now - to see how fresh the HD2 options are and if you HD2 owners are still happy with your HD2's. Also, I've bought many WM6.5 apps in the past and it would be a shame to not be able to use them still on a nicer and larger model.)

I for one love the idea of being able to have both win mobile and android on the same phone just a boot away. It is the sole reason I just bought a HD2. I would love to see a version of Co0kie's mod 2.0 on the HD2 Android side as well. I'm a huge Android fan but the Sense UI on the win mobile HD2 looks much tighter and intergrated than it does on the Desire, Desire HD, or EVO. Icons scattered around 3, 5, or 7 screens is an eye sore in my opinion. If you think about it with every new release from HTC the HTC Android phones are starting to look more and more like the HD2's win mobile Sense UI version. Developers, here is a challenge. Make the Android side of the Hd2 look like the win mobile Sense UI side. The future of android will be widgets on the Screens and apps hidden away for use when needed until they can be intergrated into a far more attracted and collabrative widget. If you looks at the widgets that come with Launcher pro plus it is clears that they know this as well .

Rurph said:
i think we are pretty much in a dead point. MS has probably promised to further support MS 6.x, but do you honestly think that that would be the case once WM 7 is out? I think the whole WM team is fully concentrated on the launch of WM7 and will be busy with further upgrades. i might be wrong but i don't expect anything from MS. frankly saying i feel that MS does not give a monkey's about WM 6.x users. If they did, they could offer a free upgrade of WM7 to HD2 owners. I know you will think about the 5 physical buttons, the new kernel and etc, but if the company really cared, that upgrade would not be a problem taking into consideration HD2's specs. We all bash Apple for whatever reasons, but you have to give credit to them for supporting even outdated iphone 3g with new iOS updates.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
gotta disagree. There are too many enteprise type devices out there using winmo for it to just go away. As long as they are pushing 6.5.x as the enterprise base, then we will get driver updates, new bases to build on. We might not see anymore sense updates, but it's not getting completely abandoned yet.