Database Users

So you think Universal is not slow?

I had the opportunity to play with a Wizard today.
I am going to say just one thing:
When I flip the keyboard thingie on the Wizard, the screen flip is instantaneous. Just instantaneous. (for the record, I happen to know exactly how long 1/5th of a second is, and it is not even that long)
On the Universal it takes what, 3 - 4 seconds?
Yes, yes! higher resolution and all that. But does that justify the same function on Universal to be at least 20 times slower? I think not!
I really can't believe that Universal is such a dog. Could it be something we are missing, like the CPU is underclocked by default or something?
Is there a way to find out how fast the CPU is running at a given time?

atekant said:
I had the opportunity to play with a Wizard today.
I am going to say just one thing:
When I flip the keyboard thingie on the Wizard, the screen flip is instantaneous. Just instantaneous. (for the record, I happen to know exactly how long 1/5th of a second is, and it is not even that long)
On the Universal it takes what, 3 - 4 seconds?
Yes, yes! higher resolution and all that. But does that justify the same function on Universal to be at least 20 times slower? I think not!
I really can't believe that Universal is such a dog. Could it be something we are missing, like the CPU is underclocked by default or something?
Is there a way to find out how fast the CPU is running at a given time?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
atekant: you're right on the button! I can almost prove it through trial and failure, but not conclusively. If you read the thread about the Jasjar and MDA Pro topping out at 624Mhz after being overclocked using PHM (Pocket Hack Master 2005), you will see that the Universal is not just slow in screen refresh rates, but also underperforms in the video playback department.
Plug in the mains adapter and performance issues are gone!! Successfully overclock to just 520Mhz (I know! It's supposed to run at that already!) and a lot of these performance issues are somewhat alleviated.
Personally, I believe that some universals have not different speed rating CPUs', but different chipsets, as not all Universal owners experience this problem e.g. Sub69 is ok on this front. But many other jasjar owners and MDA Pro owners have this same problem. My wife is on her 3rd MDA Pro, but that might be down to ROM version. Nonetheless, unless I overclock her Universal to 520 or 624Mhz, video performance is affected on videos encoded at a resolution of 640x480 (regardless of video bitrate).
Things have much improved on my own jasjar since my last hard-reset and not installing any 3rd party software that wasn't designed for WM5.0.
Anyway, that's my experience anyhow.

3rd party soft's not designed for wm05
but surely mackaby007, if a piece of software is not loaded into memory (ie used), why in the hell should it affect the performance, this is another insidious bug in my opinion, as i told u i am not going to try and hard reset just to test, but never should (or had with the o/ses i used like win, linux, epoc, symbian, unix, beos, macos, dos... etc) an application affect video or any other performance if its not loaded!

Re: Crossed wires!!
nabil2000 said:
but surely mackaby007, if a piece of software is not loaded into memory (ie used), why in the hell should it affect the performance, this is another insidious bug in my opinion, as i told u i am not going to try and hard reset just to test, but never should (or had with the o/ses i used like win, linux, epoc, symbian, unix, beos, macos, dos... etc) an application affect video or any other performance if its not loaded!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nabil2000, I think we're getting our wires a little crossed here. I agree with you to a large extent that it could well be a down to software bugs, therefore affecting CPU utilisation, which will in turn affect performance, i.e. refresh rates, speed od operation and most obviously for me, video playback. having said that, you are aware that sub69 and I have the identical ROM and o/s build version. That doesn't leave much room for software being the culprit, being that we still get differences in general performance. I don't believe my unit is at all faulty. I do think, however, that there is a two-fold problem that concerns some but not all Universal owners:
1) I don't believe for one second that all manufactured units have identical hardware, only specs! Different manufactured chips with same performance rating, but different response in real world use. This is nothing new in the world of computing.
2)I do believe that the o/s / ROM is bug ridden and can/will be resolved in due time.
As for your point about unloaded software affecting performance, I agree totally, that is highly improbable.

rom leakage into memory
maybe soft resets do not get rid of the unloaded apps completely, and so we get remnants/debris of apps left behind, which can only be removed with hard resets...
so if this is the case, and my hunch is that it is, a rom upgrade which will flush memory properly and completely every soft reset will get the problem solved... (or allow some backup mechanism that will allow for non-destructive hard resets)...
as for the hardware issue, i am not a chip processor manufacturer so i would not know, but some people in this board seem to know that this is the case (ie variations in hardware that preserve official hardware specs, with some having the potential to be more performant than others beyond what is advertised)...
either way, my contention is the better the specs, advertised or otherwise, the happier the clients, and the better for the future of the HTC/i-mate dealership venture ...
and by the way that trick they pulled (htc/i-mate) that the reason they included less ram was to preserve battery life, the same stunt was pulled by nokia to justify why they used a slower processor (150 mhz i think) on their nokia n9500 communicator...
they think customers are fools, but we are becoming more astute and discerning than ever before in our choices... so they better watch out instead of insulting our intelligence

Well, no, not quite 3-4 seconds for the screen flip. More like 1-2 seconds

If you disable the O2 Active interface by going to Programs>Install Type>Basic then soft reset, it does speed up the screen flipping somewhat.

MDA Pro, Jasjar, Dopod, SPV M5000 and Exec, oh & VPA IV!
Tha's assuming that every Universal owner has an Exec! :lol:

Removing all Today Plug-ins will increase the speed as well...

mackaby007 said:
...Successfully overclock to just 520Mhz (I know! It's supposed to run at that already!) and a lot of these performance issues are somewhat alleviated...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When I use PHM to look at the current processor speed, it already reports 520. Are you saying yours reported a slower speed?
If mine shows 520, should I just leave it alone and not use PHM??
(The test at 624 fails each time)

[/quote]Well, no, not quite 3-4 seconds for the screen flip. More like 1-2 seconds
Actually, for me its more like 6 seconds, painfully slow...
Fernando
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

I am a bit confused here. On one hand, it would seem that this is entirely a WM5 issue, as other devices with VGA screens do switch instantaneously (e.g., iPaq 4700 and others); it is not good that the JASJAR takes this long. However, the K-JAM screen rotation is fast but it has a QVGA screen, so it may be a VGA thing after all.
Or is it that WM5 and VGA don't "mix well"?
Any thoughts?
Fernando

Not trying to be the exception to the rule here but screen switching on by JJ is actually instantaneous. I have not done any RU and am still on the old one.
Those experiencing more than a second must be doing so due to plug-ins and non-WM5 compliant software installed.

"trick they pulled (htc/i-mate) that the reason they included less ram was to preserve battery life, the same stunt was pulled by nokia to justify why they used a slower processor (150 mhz i think)"
Hmm, If you read the article on Buzznet about power, written by a MS employee, or have ANY knowledge of electronics you would understand that both of these are completely true.
Less ram, or slower processor = longer battery life.
I used Wm5 on my Himalaya and NEVER ONCE went over 50meg ram used, let alone 64. Why on earth would you want 128???

orinoco said:
other devices with VGA screens do switch instantaneously (e.g., iPaq 4700 and others)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
4700 has an ATI video chipset, Himalaya and
Blueangel too, and the screen flipping is
done in hardware.
Universal and Magician use the LCD controller
built into the CPU, so they are dog slow.
Don't have any info on Wizard.

I knew the Jasjar was lacking something!!
cr2 said:
orinoco said:
other devices with VGA screens do switch instantaneously (e.g., iPaq 4700 and others)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
4700 has an ATI video chipset, Himalaya and
Blueangel too, and the screen flipping is
done in hardware.
Universal and Magician use the LCD controller
built into the CPU, so they are dog slow.
Don't have any info on Wizard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I knew i wasn't loopy! That would explain poorer video performance on the Universal then, wouldn't it? Whilst the Universal is a very capable video player, it lacks power for higher resolution vids, hence the need for overclocking or the mains adapter to eradicate the 'jerking' some of have experienced in vids encoded at 640x480 @ more than 600kbps!
This issue of mine is becoming old hat now, so I'll give it a rest, but my fears have been justified, in that, whilst my jasjar is now performing beautifully, the only area left for me to complain is in the speed of screen flipping from standby mode and videoplack at high resolutions - lack of dedicated ATI video chipset explains it all to me now.
Cheers guys. :wink:

Re: So you think Universal is not slow? Only in two areas!!
CJSnet said:
mackaby007 said:
...Successfully overclock to just 520Mhz (I know! It's supposed to run at that already!) and a lot of these performance issues are somewhat alleviated...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When I use PHM to look at the current processor speed, it already reports 520. Are you saying yours reported a slower speed?
If mine shows 520, should I just leave it alone and not use PHM??
(The test at 624 fails each time)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
CJSnet: Sorry mate, don't waste any more time on PHM. I won't anyway. It doesn't make enough of a difference for me in what I want from the Universal. I got my speed boost for the o/s from another program called GSPocketmagic. Don't ask me how this has worked out, I don't know, but it works for me!!
As has been made obvious, the universal has been manufactured without an ATI video chipset, therefore putting more strain on the CPU to handle screen refresh, flipping and video playback! So, in my opinion, we have to accept it as one of the shortcummings of the Universal. In every other way though, my Jasjar is now very quick and I'm not complaining.
best of luck. :wink:

Touch HD vs. Xperia - A non-professional view

The way i see it... it totally depends on what attracts you more - a no-keyboard slim black iPhone like mobile or a professional looking and metallic keyboard bearing mobile. That alone should determine your choice... but considering you want to go into depth:
1. Xperia has more RAM. Infact almost 100 MB more. Which is simply awesome, especially if you are looking to port heavy games onto the mobile or run tons of software. How much RAM will panels take up is a big question, but keep in mind that if needed you could release the RAM taken up by Panels by disabling them or setting them however you want. (Loading 9 heavy panels will probably take more RAM than keeping 9 basic or default panels)
2. When it comes to Screen, though both have the same resolution, Touch HD gives you a bigger display with its 3.8 inch screen over the 3 inch Xperia screen.
3. In regard to camera, the Touch HD is again ahead of Xperia with a 5 MP camera over the 3.2 MP camera in Xperia. However, if one thing Sony Ericsson knows best, it is its Camera... so i can pretty much say that Xperia's 3.2 MP camera would be enough to take on the Touch HD 5 MP camera. Video recording is in both, and most likely Touch HD will match the recording capabilties in terms of resolution with Xperia - but again Camera quality of Sony is expected to be better. Both devices have Touch Focus as well... but one other thing to note is that Touch HD has no camera flash!
4. Main interface - Touch Flo 3d is superb looking. But Xperia Panels are not behind. Though Touch Flo 3D is shiny and extremely attractive, it lacks big time in customization. With Panels, customization is the key... and with time as developers start releasing new panels, we will probably see some really awesome stuff in terms of functionaity as well looks. Not to mention, the way you switch panel mode (fan, side-by-side, etc.) is nothing short. So if you are one who loves to have the possibility of as much customization as possible, like me, then Xperia wins here. And in my opinion, in terms of functionality and extendibility Xperia again wins here.
5. Battery - Xperia carries a bigger battery than Touch HD. Though how much time each will provide, we can't say for sure at this point...
6. Manufacturer - HTC vs. SE. This is SE's first WinMo device, so concerns arise... but given the fact that HTC was behind in this device's manufacturing as well, i say that we can rely on the device.
7. 3G Reception - Foo, a senior member here at XDA Developers has brought to my attention that Touch Pro suffers from poor 3G reception but another member says that this is not the case and that he doesn't face any such problems on his Pro. Considering that HTC has improved Touch HD in various aspects over the pro - bigger screen, higher resolution, better sensitivity to the touch screen, more powerful camera and so on - we will just have to wait and see if the 3G reception in Touch HD is better than Pro or not. As for Xperia, we'll have to wait and confirm for that when it releases.
8. Accelerometer - The major feature missing from Xperia is the Accelerometer. But other than putting a lid on some possibly cool games, i don't have much concern over this. But of course, here the Xperia is beaten by the Touch HD!
Other than that, basic differences are there... LED indicators on the Xperia, and In Call Recording in Touch HD, but none too major to consider here. (i leaved keyboard out of this as i already put that forward in the first question i asked at the start of this post).
Conclusion: From where I sit, Xperia is a winner with its sexy look (c'mon. it. is. steel!), fully customizable interface (panels), more RAM, Flash on the camera, full stylish qwerty keyboard, and more.
Hope this helps...
And if anyone feels like it, then add to the list anything you want.
Best Regards.
Salman Khalid.

You must have heard htc is the odm behind x1. From the reviews camera seems close to diamond and pro but with touch focus.

sproxy said:
You must have heard htc is the odm behind x1. From the reviews camera seems close to diamond and pro but with touch focus.
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Click to collapse
Yes, i did point that tout in the post above... but HTC had more to do with the hardware from a Win Mo point of view... the Camera is something that SE obviously didn't need help from HTC on.
As for actual comparison of picture quality... we'll know for sure in a few days as to how good Xperia's camera actually is. (one picture over at the Xperiancers blog shows it to be really good)!

msalmank said:
1. Xperia has more RAM. Infact almost 100 MB more. Which is simply awesome, especially if you are looking to port heavy games onto the mobile or run tons of software. How much RAM will panels take up is a big question, but keep in mind that if needed you could release the RAM taken up by Panels by disabling them or setting them however you want. (Loading 9 heavy panels will probably take more RAM than keeping 9 basic or default panels)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why you said that Xperia have more RAM ? Look this http://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone2=2525&idPhone1=2246

borce_razor said:
Why you said that Xperia have more RAM ? Look this http://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone2=2525&idPhone1=2246
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This information is outdated. SE increased the RAM in the meanwhile (most likely due to performance issues) up to 384 MByte RAM which is about 100 MByte more then Touch HD has.
But I don't really see both devices in line for comparison, because one has a slide out keyboard and the other one not. This makes a huge difference in usability when it comes to writing and people who are looking for a device with external keyboard really want and need it.
So for most buyers of the Xperia X1 this normally is not only a gimmick like some nice LEDs or better camera, etc - this is really a buy or no-buy decision.
So for me both devices are not comparable, though I voted for the Xperia as it is better concerning my individual requirements.

foo said:
But I don't really see both devices in line for comparison, because one has a slide out keyboard and the other one not. This makes a huge difference in usability when it comes to writing and people who are looking for a device with external keyboard really want and need it.
So for most buyers of the Xperia X1 this normally is not only a gimmick like some nice LEDs or better camera, etc - this is really a buy or no-buy decision.
So for me both devices are not comparable, though I voted for the Xperia as it is better concerning my individual requirements.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The reason i did the comparison was because both devices have been compared/questioned side-by-side on various forums now. And i did mention, before making a comparison, that: "The way i see it... it totally depends on what attracts you more - a no-keyboard slim black iPhone like mobile or a professional looking and metallic keyboard bearing mobile."

borce_razor said:
Why you said that Xperia have more RAM ? Look this http://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone2=2525&idPhone1=2246
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Click to collapse
As Foo already pointed out, that page is out-dated. You can do a search in Google on Xperia and 384 MB RAM and you will get tons of news items and blog posts announcing that change in the hardware from a couple of weeks back.

holy ****, I thought this was a double thread!

nap007 said:
holy ****, I thought this was a double thread!
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Click to collapse
One is comparing Touch HD and the other Touch Pro against Xperia...

Here's another compare http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=pdacomparer&id1=1469&id2=1117. Still HD is my favourite

As I posted in your other thread, a lot of this information is just wrong. Where did you ever hear the Xperia had almost 400MB of RAM? Every spec I've ever seen shows 256, the Touch Pro has 288, don't use it in your argument until it's proven... Even SonyEricsson.com doesn't have a RAM spec.
Haha I love how you're sooo biased you can't even say a 5MP camera is better than 3.2, "if there's anything SE knows it's cameras"... Yes, I know that their camera is not up to par with one that has 1.8MP more of resolution.
Once again, the Touch Pro has no issue with 3G reception, far better than other 3G phones I've used...
The manufacturer argument, why don't you make that argument between the HD and Touch Pro? It'd make just as much sense, all of the phones are manufactured by HTC.

Black93300ZX said:
As I posted in your other thread, a lot of this information is just wrong. Where did you ever hear the Xperia had almost 400MB of RAM? Every spec I've ever seen shows 256, the Touch Pro has 288, don't use it in your argument until it's proven... Even SonyEricsson.com doesn't have a RAM spec.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm afraid you should first confirm things yourself. Xperiancers is a blog by SE and here is a quote from their latest blog entry: "The device has a graphics accelerator, a 528 Mhz processor and 384 megs of ram"
(if you'd like to see: http://xperiancers.com/ - Name of post is 'Your Xperia Questions Answered')
Black93300ZX said:
Haha I love how you're sooo biased you can't even say a 5MP camera is better than 3.2, "if there's anything SE knows it's cameras"... Yes, I know that their camera is not up to par with one that has 1.8MP more of resolution.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude... it's my opinion, if you don't agree then don't, but call me biased at my own expense. I clearly stated that 'the Touch HD is again ahead of Xperia with a 5 MP camera over the 3.2 MP camera in Xperia', and i am sure many will agree that SE's cameras are one of the best in mobile devices... but i did not declare Xperia a winner over Touch HD but only implied that in my opinion Xperia'll be better. Furthermore - take into account that Touch HD lacks a flash for the camera, it will not perform up to par in certain conditions.
Black93300ZX said:
Once again, the Touch Pro has no issue with 3G reception, far better than other 3G phones I've used...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again... user based experience. Another member here mentioned that he faced 3G reception problems, and i put that in. You say it doesn't, i'll put that in as well.
Black93300ZX said:
The manufacturer argument, why don't you make that argument between the HD and Touch Pro? It'd make just as much sense, all of the phones are manufactured by HTC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude! did you even read what i wrote? I wrote it clear: "HTC vs. SE. This is SE's first WinMo device, so concerns arise... but given the fact that HTC was behind in this device's manufacturing as well, i say that we can rely on the device."
HTC manufactured Xperia, but it is a SE device and they are the ones who are bringing it out.

i love the HTC touch HD, but with no usa 3g, it turns me off!

netnerd said:
i love the HTC touch HD, but with no usa 3g, it turns me off!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm afraid to add this to the comparison... someone might say something...
I was not aware of this... Maybe they'll add it in the end? or is it confirmed?

I really dont know which one i will choose, i have really bad experiences of SE, it´s quality, but since HTC manufactured Xperia, maybe it´s better.
But i don´t know if it´s worth the wait for the Touch HD either, since it is going to be released later than the Xperia..
I have surfed the web all day long for about 2 days now and really dont know which device to choose.
Really hard!

Nyberg said:
I really dont know which one i will choose, i have really bad experiences of SE, it´s quality, but since HTC manufactured Xperia, maybe it´s better.
But i don´t know if it´s worth the wait for the Touch HD either, since it is going to be released later than the Xperia..
I have surfed the web all day long for about 2 days now and really dont know which device to choose.
Really hard!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
TOUCH HD

The comment about the camera is correct. For printing up to A4, anything over 3mp is usually massively outweighed by the lens opening and quality. Small opening ... small amounts of light - causes issues regardless of the CCD or CMOS. It is also correct to suggest that the SE devices have a history of being closer to compact cameras in quality than the toy town stuff you usually get from HTC (I've had loads of HTC devices and love them but the cameras are of little practical use). The other thing worth saying that the X1 will shoot 640x480 video and 30fps like the Nokia E90 and N95. The quality of video of the latter two is almost up to the Hi-8 camcorders (if in good light) which makes them a genuinely useful camcorder alternative. The HD (and all native HTC devices) are still QVGA and the video looks rubbish even on a 2" window on a PC. This should be a huge plus for the X1.
My concerns about the X1 relate to the likely hood that SE won't support and develop the platform. There are many rumours about the Sony and Ericcson relationship as well as the SE / HTC one. Also, Sony will not commit to any future WM devices - infact, it seems they are completely non committal about future OS - UIQ, Android, WM etc. When you look at the P1 issues ... never resolved even after a huge backlash by customers ... it's not promising.
The X1 performance / tuning also worries me. It was announced that there were gfx / video perf issues with 30fps playback very shortly before the release date. They didn't answer any real questions in their pathetic webcast either ... I think there will be fairly horrible issues initially and worry they won't fix them. The added RAM so late in the day may sound positive ... but it shows they don't really know what they are doing. They will have added it because performance was too slow. Do remember that that amount of RAM with WVGA will really cane the battery - a negative which people aren't really considering.
I worry also about the keyboard ... I guess we will have to wait for the first purchasers to confirm either way. These things are enough to stop me pre-ordering when 3 months ago it was a definite purchase for me.
The HD has no keyboard ... I might be able to live without. The problem is more with the lack of button controls. Again, we know very little about it. I would hope HTC would include some kind of soft dpad with dynamic scaling which would allow apps to run VGA on top of the extra screen estate which would have the soft buttons / dpad. If they don't do this, I am very concerned about real day to day use. If they do deliver such a soft key set, then I think it would be almost perfect as long as something else is not missing - like TV-Out ... strangely not detailed ... even though some sites suggest in the spec it is there. The only massive irritation for me is the camera - no flash and no VGA 30fps capture on something this expensive. I was hoping to replace my TyTNII and N95 8GB with a single device .... and it looks like I will still need two - seems like a stupid oversight for such an expensive device. The 3.8" screen may still sway me though. I don't need tiny like lots of people ... as long as I have a decent belt case.
Paul.

two very different devices targeted at different markets, daft trying do a compare on them as one is more of high usage business device the other a low usage media device.
Business or personal
So out of these two, if i wanted a phone to do work on with occasional media usage, id go for the X1, if i wanted something that looked swanky and was a good phone but ultimately a low work usage device then the HD would be it, course using that same logic id actualy not go with either of them as the TP is even more buiness orientated

dazza9075 said:
course using that same logic id actualy not go with either of them as the TP is even more buiness orientated
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
huh? how is seeing less is more business orientated? when you in business, u want to see more data on screen, not less data on screen! TP=2.8" 640x480. X1=3.0" 800x480.

netnerd said:
huh? how is seeing less is more business orientated? when you in business, u want to see more data on screen, not less data on screen! TP=2.8" 640x480. X1=3.0" 800x480.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh my god... Did you seriously just say a big issue when making a business oriented phone is having a big screen? That's the most ridiculous claim I've ever heard. In that case, the Touch HD will be purely for business, because the entire phone is just one huge screen. Big screens = multimedia use... iPhone, Touch HD? I don't think I've ever seen a businessman complain "oh man this screen is too small", if that were the case all businesses would have 42" LCD monitors for their computers.

Unboxing Xperia X1

http://miniurl.org/2qL
What do you think folks? isnt this the ultimate phone we've been waiting for all these years?

Broken link.
Edit: Thanks for fixing.
One thing I don't like is how when you're flipping through the panels you HAVE to select one. You can't flip through them in that format, then lift your finger and not pick it. Also, very laggy on the screen rotation in panel mode. Graphics accelerator, 384MB ram? Maybe it'll need all of it just to rotate the screen. Really lame, one of the "benefits" to this was going to be that it eats less memory than TF3D... Seems to eat more.
Overall, once they work out some issues, it'll be a good phone. The phone of the future? Maybe... Not my future, but it'll compete with some of the best.

That site has been viewed by a lot of people in the last few days - with regards to performance issues I think it is stated that he had a pre-release version. I believe newer roms have made it snappier (from what I have read)

yup i agreed, its still laggy on screen rotation in panels mode. but switching from one ponales to the other is so fast!
and of course it eats alot of memory than TFL3D, it has 8 active desktop and all running on the background! What makes you think they boost the RAM to 384MB?
hell, it would even be funny to see TFL3D/ manila 2D running as one of Xperia panels and still keep the speed

thats a prototype

RAM
FunkyMike said:
thats a prototype
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Click to collapse
... with 256 MB RAM...

Already had posted this here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=431573
Definitely a prototype model.
C'mon!!! Let there be final device's reviews!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ronka said:
yup i agreed, its still laggy on screen rotation in panels mode. but switching from one ponales to the other is so fast!
and of course it eats alot of memory than TFL3D, it has 8 active desktop and all running on the background! What makes you think they boost the RAM to 384MB?
hell, it would even be funny to see TFL3D/ manila 2D running as one of Xperia panels and still keep the speed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Umm, not all of the panels are running applications... It's not the same as having 9 programs open simultaneously, like you guys make it out to be.

Yay

Black93300ZX said:
Yay
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why a Yay? it's an old review from over a week back... prototype model AGAIN.

Can't wait for a real unboxing.

For the first time ever, I can't wait as well. not because of the phone, i know everything unboxing could tell me. i just want to know what the heck there will be in the box besides the phone! will there be a case or a memory card or a headset...? Noone's never said anything about that, but I'd like to know how much additional cost i can expect provided i go with x1.

Jabe said:
For the first time ever, I can't wait as well. not because of the phone, i know everything unboxing could tell me. i just want to know what the heck there will be in the box besides the phone! will there be a case or a memory card or a headset...? Noone's never said anything about that, but I'd like to know how much additional cost i can expect provided i go with x1.
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My bet is on a small microSD card, a wired headset and a CD

Insaneboy said:
My bet is on a small microSD card, a wired headset and a CD
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Seems likely... but they might include a case too, you never know.

msalmank said:
why a Yay? it's an old review from over a week back... prototype model AGAIN.
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Click to collapse
lolz "OH MY GOD ITS A WEEK OLD"
I'm sure they've totally reconstructed everything about the device in the last week!

They upped the RAM to 384, that sounds like reconstruction to me.

Kloc said:
They upped the RAM to 384, that sounds like reconstruction to me.
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Oh yeah? Hm. That video was from September 25th, and on September 26th it was posted on Xperiancers saying there was 384MB RAM... Are you sure that version didn't have it? You're not? Okay then. Notice they didn't say "The device will have", they said "The device has"...
"• Questions re: the speed etc… The device has a graphics accelerator, a 528 Mhz processor and 384 megs of ram (so it should be as fast as anything else that is out there.)"
So I'm glad to know you're 100% sure the version on video 1 day earlier didn't have 384 megs of ram.
And wow, I'm gonna call major BS on what they said here on Xperiancers:
"• How big is the battery and how long does it last? The battery is a 1500mAh unit (about 10% bigger than, for example, the touch pro). How long it lasts depends very much on how much you use the phone. Even in the worst case scenario, with all the features turned on (GPS, internet, applications etc…) and heavy usage, it will last all day and need to be charged over night."
Really? GPS and WiFi, WORST case scenario, using everything, you can't kill the battery in less than a day? BULL****.

Haha chill out there buddy. But you missed one assumption. You assumed because that video is posted on the 25th that they have the newest phone version. As you can see here right in the review they say it's difficult to say how far they are from the final version. Now why would they say that if they got it a day before the release?
"This is a prototype, we were advised that we do not run into any big test that before we start selling a lot more changes. There are several things that at this X1 does not work at all (like GPS), or do not work optimally. It is difficult to say how far we are from the final version, it is clear that the work on the software, therefore, prefer to avoid the assessment of speed or function at all. "
And another quote to back me up.
"With the speed of the animation of the prototype would be worse, but what can be seen in the accompanying video is one of the things that are in the final Xperiích significantly improved (see video at the:: unwired). "
The unwired video was posted on the 15th. Now if it was posted on the 15th why would there 1 day old phone be significantly improved 14 days earlier?

Black93300ZX said:
lolz "OH MY GOD ITS A WEEK OLD"
I'm sure they've totally reconstructed everything about the device in the last week!
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The video was posted over a week ago, but does not account for the prototype... and as far as i know, no prototypes were released with the full 384 Mb...

msalmank said:
The video was posted over a week ago, but does not account for the prototype... and as far as i know, no prototypes were released with the full 384 Mb...
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How would they test it and know it works? Do you mean to tell me you expect them to completely revamp the hardware of the device and release it as-is, with no beta testing? If that's the case, I'm REALLY worried about their quality control now.

something is seriously wrong with the performance of the xperia

i sure hope these get fixed in the coming months by our devs and cooks
i just got a chance to play with an old ATOM EXEC (64mb,qvga,520mhz.no 3g...etc). i was amazed on how much faster and snappier the device. i know that the screen has one fifth the pixels, but not everything is depending on graphics. here are some things i noticed ive grouped them into 5 differnt "benchmark classes
1- anything with any graphics effects(non 3d) like scrolling rotating...etc is infinitely smoother and cooler despite the lower resolution and crappier image quality. pointUI2 was a solid50fps vs only ~20fps on x1, fingermenu 1.10 was about 15-20fps vs only about 5fps, miniflow was about 30 fps vs an unusable ~5-6fps. zooming and panning with htc image viewer was butter smooth unlike the "good enough" on the x1. scrolling and navigating in UCweb feels a lot smoother on the atom
2-opening the windows directory takes about 1.5 seconds vs 4-5 seconds on my itje's 3.5rc1(one of the fastest roms i have tested. cold booting takes about half the time but thats to be expected due to the smaller windows folder.
3-opening demo PocketArtist is 6 seconds vs 8 on x1.
4-youtube videos using the application @normal quality setting does not lag at all. on my x1 it does sometimes when it is viewing while its finishing the download over wifi. m2d was not as good looking as tf3d but its so much smoother
5-navigating various parts of the OS (for example jumping from programs to settings-> clock-> connections - activesync- connections...etc) was just noticeably snappier on the EXEC. switching to landscape was faster on the X1 though
while the experience of the x1 is clearly better due to the screen,resolution,other phone features and all, i just cant but feel extremely disappointed with how things currently are especially the first observation.
I'm really interested in our cooks opinion on how performance may end up being improved in a major way in the coming few months in any of the above situations. I'm obviously interested in the first point as its very easy to notice compared to the other points. can we expect something worthwhile in terms of performance in wm6.5

btw i also tested a cooked dutty v4 htc diamond and i dont think the diamond was much better than the x1 in the performance.

I don't know if your x1 is customised or what, but so far my take is the X1 is the fastest winmo phones I ever own in the last few years, considering those I have owned include both smartphone and professional, wm5 and wm6 (touch pro, samsung i780, omnia, treo 500v, moto q9h, etc)

that reply was more fanboish than i would like it to be . i think the X1 (despite some problems) is the best htc phone made. but current generation QC-based phones (x1,tpro,hd and diamond) seem to be suffering from a performance problem and im not sure whats at blame.
are you noticing better performance than me?????? im using itje 3.5rc1
1- anything with any graphics effects(non 3d) like scrolling rotating...etc is infinitely smoother and cooler despite the lower resolution and crappier image quality. pointUI2 was a solid50fps vs only ~20fps on x1, fingermenu 1.10 was about 15-20fps vs only about 5fps, miniflow was about 30 fps vs an unusable ~5-6fps. zooming and panning with htc image viewer was butter smooth unlike the "good enough" on the x1. scrolling and navigating in UCweb feels a lot smoother on the atom
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na....im totalli with you that ATOM EXEC is way faster than X1. no doubt. my frnd got an atom. but u hav 2 consider this
1. x1 resoution is 5times more as you said. thats like going from 800x600 resolution to 1920x1250. dats a HUGE jump and just imagine if just a ram and cpu upgrade is enogh to handle that kind of load.
2. also, i noticed that you r running tf3d. now installing that copies bout 1400 files into your windows folder. dat will take time.
3 .i don agree with apps running faster. youtube or PocketArtist, both run lot faster on x1.
4. navigation (for example jumping from programs to settings-> clock-> connections - activesync- connections...etc) is faster because, there are more things installed in you x1 than in your atom. also dont forget the fact that atom runs on lower resolution. a QVGA app that takes 200KB of RAM might take upto 2MB of ram when converted to WVGA.

im not the best guy to understand the problem and the solution but if i were to guess it could be one or more of the following :
1- very slow performing on-board flash memory 2-unoptimised code in apps for w/vga
3- used 528mhz cpu is not fast enough
4-none of the common apps i mentioned makes use of the hardware(which means that they will be slow even on tegra + 1ghz cpus
5-HTC/SE made a bad design by putting slow cpu/graphics on a WVGA screen. they are biting more than what they can chew
as mentioned earlier. can we realistically expect a major change in performance if the cooks and devs here focus their effort on improving this

THE GRIZZ said:
im not the best guy to understand the problem and the solution but if i were to guess it could be one or more of the following :
1- very slow performing on-board flash memory 2-unoptimised code in apps for w/vga
3- used 528mhz cpu is not fast enough
4-none of the common apps i mentioned makes use of the hardware(which means that they will be slow even on tegra + 1ghz cpus
5-HTC/SE made a bad design by putting slow cpu/graphics on a WVGA screen. they are biting more than what they can chew
as mentioned earlier. can we realistically expect a major change in performance if the cooks and devs here focus their effort on improving this
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Click to collapse
well first thing as mention your running TF3d and that take up alot of the speed on your x1 i did reinstall of my phone to the newest orginal rom from se without any kind of tf3d and gotta say my phone was twice as fast when it had tf3d on it..also most of todays apps are not optimized for the newest phones out on the marked second try some real test with some games (eks Tony Hawk Pro Skater 2 - Call of Duty 2 -) (convert some mp3s or videos on the phone) Test with some emulators like fpsece - pocketsnes - picodrive then you will hopefully see what your x1 is good for

i noticed when i have lot of apps open ..the phone becomes slow..and simple functions such as opening Menu's takes more than 1 second.
so when this happens.,..i use the 'FreeRam' of SKTools...and clear up everything.
then it becomes fast as before.

lets not get sidetracked from the main issue that our x1(HD,tpro,diamond also) performs quite badly in certain 2D graphics applications as i mentioned in the first post. can the graphics accelerator on our x1 be used to accelerate.
the iphone had a 400mhz CPU with no graphics acceleration and half the memory and the interface of all its apps looks slick, smooth and cool. if the iphone can do this with its hardware, how come our phone cant. i think there is more to this then the resolution

THE GRIZZ said:
lets not get sidetracked from the main issue that our x1(HD,tpro,diamond also) performs quite badly in certain 2D graphics applications as i mentioned in the first post. can the graphics accelerator on our x1 be used to accelerate.
the iphone had a 400mhz CPU with no graphics acceleration and half the memory and the interface of all its apps looks slick, smooth and cool. if the iphone can do this with its hardware, how come our phone cant. i think there is more to this then the resolution
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One of the major problems here is windows mobile. It's just a mess.
Another is the resolution. Even on 2d, it makes a hell lot of difference. There's like ... 500% more pixels, with only 50% more performance.

THE GRIZZ said:
lets not get sidetracked from the main issue that our x1(HD,tpro,diamond also) performs quite badly in certain 2D graphics applications as i mentioned in the first post. can the graphics accelerator on our x1 be used to accelerate.
the iphone had a 400mhz CPU with no graphics acceleration and half the memory and the interface of all its apps looks slick, smooth and cool. if the iphone can do this with its hardware, how come our phone cant. i think there is more to this then the resolution
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If you did look around in XDA, you should know that Qualcomm's CPU is well known for it poor performance (especially for 2D/3D). X1/HD is already the best you can get compare to Kaiser but still far left behind PDA w/ Intel Xscale CPU. See for yourself for Diamond vs. Asus P565 (the current performance king):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZHYimU-VHM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCI6JyfmuPU&feature=related
Since it's bascially a hardware issue, there is not much we can do on it performance side. But X1 still my best one I can get base on it's overall features (3.5mm audio, USB 2.0, WVGA, UTMS w/ US's 850/1900), build quality, form factor, and of course it's look.
iPhone? It does have PowerVR chipset for graphic acceleration. And it's simply a joke for this date if I have to give up multi-tasking (for all 3rd party apps) for it's smooth and cool factor. My X1 is a workhorse and I want it to run IGo8 w/ Coreplayer player over A2DP/AVRCP concurrently.

Resolution does indeed play a big role. When I launch a program that needs WGAFIXv3 running, i notice how the framerate is practically doubled....
Hopefully Windows Mobile 6.5 will do justice just as Windows 7 is doing TREMENDOUS justice in terms of speed/performance. I finally appreciate the direction Microsoft is taking. It seems that ever since the introduction of Windows Media Player 7 (all versions up to 6 loaded in a SNAP and then 7 and up started taking forever to open unless you upgrade to the latest/fastest PC), back in the day, Microsoft's norm was to build more and more bulkier mega-code-loading software and this rubbed off on the mobile side of things too. Even SQL Server Express 2005 takes sooooooo long to load on PC's. Everything of theirs needed soooo much disk access to open up until Windows 7 came along.
So yeah I'm hoping a slimlined approach on the mobile platform will redeem the Windows Mobile brand

Diamond vs. Asus P565 (the current performance king):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZHYi...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCI6J...eature=related
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these things in the video are very CPU intensive stuff. the stuff im complaining about is far simpler stuff
i am talking about simple none 2d graphics intensive image scrolling and simple dialog boxes movements. surly this stuff is not that hard to handle. decoding mpeg4 video at full screen is surly FAAAAAR more work and yet the x1 does an OK job hadling it. choking at something like displaying dialog boxes, schrolling screen full of text, handling menu selections...etc fingermenu,ucweb, miniflow, album, s2v are hardly graphics intensive stuff
question: is anyone noticing much better results then mine on a lite or even naked ROM
anything with any graphics effects(non 3d) like scrolling rotating...etc is infinitely smoother and cooler despite the lower resolution and crappier image quality. pointUI2 was a solid50fps vs only ~20fps on x1, fingermenu 1.10 was about 15-20fps vs only about 5fps, miniflow was about 30 fps vs an unusable ~5-6fps. zooming and panning with htc image viewer was butter smooth unlike the "good enough" on the x1. scrolling and navigating in UCweb feels a lot smoother on the atom
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I have replied to your post on the Turbo X1 thread, there are some answers, but maybe not the magic bullet you and I have been both looking for.

after messing around to get speedbooster to work. i managed assign higher priority to some of the apps that are suffering. its giving some worthwhile enhancements nothing major though.
im begening to think that the only way we can get get improved performance and iphone-like "experiance" is for all the software need to be re-written to use the graphics hardware of the QC chipset. that does not look very likely even on future software since the majority of the avalable phones dont have it. writing software for wm requires it to be written for the lowest common denomiator hardware.
software for LCD hardware will continue to make WM software a bit ugly for a very long time indeed

I am quite mystified by threads such as these but I put it down to two things... 1, I am not such an intense nor knowledgable user as the OP of the thread and 2, I dont use my phone in the same way or do not expect it to be used as I would my laptop or have the same level of software as the OP of the thread...
TBH I have been amazed by the capability of this phone and am pleasantly surprised time and again by its speed, functionality and performance... most of my programs are up and running in incredibly short order, I can access menus and the like almost instantaneously and even the windows folder (previously the worst folder to access using file explorer time wise) is much faster now when I open it... (I have upgraded to the R2A ROM and its much much better)... I find that videos are very watchable and play with no lag and the audio/video in sync... overall its exactly what it says on the tin in my ever so humble experience... although in my own admission I am not very savvy when it comes to these things so perhaps I am misunderstanding the fact that it is supposed to be as fast and capable as my laptop...

even the new generation htc phones (diamond2, touchpro2 )are using the same QC msm7200a present in all common WM w/vga phones http://www.htc.com/www/product/touchdiamond2/specification.html .
i think its about time software development should focused on creeating two versions of the same software
-qvga for compatibility with any phohe (including non graphics accelerated vga phones)
-w/vga version with hardware acceleration since all htcphones released since the kiaser use it

Shadowdh, i think the x1 is the best htc-made phone ever. but i dont understand why many people(you included) are ignoring (or not noticing) the fact that its quite slow in certain aspects that i have highlighted in the first post

THE GRIZZ said:
Shadowdh, i think the x1 is the best htc-made phone ever. but i dont understand why many people(you included) are ignoring (or not noticing) the fact that its quite slow in certain aspects that i have highlighted in the first post
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The Grizz,
I believe it's similar to the whole issue of being able to notice "ghosting" on LCD screens. I personally know what it is, but yet I don't care enough to want to bother about it. For others, some people may not know what ghosting is until you show it to them and once you have "opened their eyes", they irrevocably develop the habit of constantly taking note as it happens on their screens.
And I believe this is ultimately the same issue with the issues you describe. Some people are just really content and amazed with the fact that such a small little bugger can still pack a punch. Sure, it'll slip up once or there, but for the most part, people are happy with what they've spent on the phone.
My 3 cents,
Cheers.

THE GRIZZ said:
1- very slow performing on-board flash memory
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe the SD card tuneup could help you speeding up the off-board flash memory goving you more speed from SDHC then internal flash...
THE GRIZZ said:
3- used 528mhz cpu is not fast enough
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Click to collapse
One of the basic science rules is: if you gain on one thing you have to give in on other things.
Higher speed means higher power consumption. In time a higher speed will be possible with the same power consumption because the cpu size becomes smaller. But for that you will have to wait.
So what do you want? A speedy phone with unacceptable power consumption or do you want to timetravel to get the newest technology before we can imagine how it should look like ?

HD2 Issues

i think the HD2 is an amazing piece of hardware and its clearly better than any other competing product in the coming few months. i do however hate a few things about it:
1-the lack of front camera for 3G video calls. while i may not care a lot about video calls i imagine that many will be missing it.
2-i see no point of releasing a separate delayed hardware revision for US market. especially when you consider that the rest of the world version lacks the front camera just like every other US phone. the Acer F1(another 1 GHZ 3G phone) has been available for a while and it supports US 3G bands on the same hardware and it even has the front camera.
3- considering that its the best multimedia phone made by HTC, its lacking the TV-out and the FM-Radio transmitter and better camera(all of which are supported by the N97)
4- the included 512MB ROM is a joke. i know that it can be expanded with SD card. but extra flash on the device is always useful. the 1.5 year old Omnia had 8/16/24BG+microSD why cant this have it. adding 8 or 16 GB flash costs HTC almost nothing to add
5-lack of stylus: HTC patented the capacitive stylus but they didnt use it. i know the the screen is big enough to be very finger friendly. but its still windows mobile and some applications work need stylus (for example Pocket artist).
6- lack of hardware buttons (especially camera). i wish the added 2 or 3 buttons on the empty sides. WM will always make use of the hardware buttons
7-despite the very high specs, its still less than the minimum Windows mobile7 specs (which requires Tegra level graphics performance acceleration and bigger than integrated storage ) which means that it will not be
upgradeable to wm7.
8-i dont understand the 320+128MB. the dedicated 128MB for the low performing graphics chip seems pointless to me. if they are going to put all this memory there why didnt they allocate it to program memory.
9- i really love how HTC managed to make the device reasonably small considering the huge 4.3" screen. i still think that its physically too big for many people. the HD was not very pocket friendly and this one is even bigger. i wish the screen was 4.0" or even 3.8". considering their recent improved and more efficient designs, im sure HTC would have been able to even make it friendly for one hand use with a smaller screen.
10- im not too big on the new standard micro-USB connector. they should have at lest included the hard to find mini-USB to micro-USB adapter with it. everybody already has several mini-USB cables/chargers but ive never actually seen a micro USB yet.
11- they increased up the specs (and power usage i would assume) significantly from the first HD but they reduced the battery size from 1350 to 1250mah!!!. luckily the early reports are suggesting "acceptable" battery life

Only thing missing for me on the device is a decent camera. I don't mean HTC standard... I mean the best of Nokia, Samsung & Sony Ericsson. The original HD took terrible pictures and videos. I don't think there is much improvement in this area from previews and videos.
TV-Out would of been great but sadly missing.
I don't care about front camera because I hardly ever use video call.
It's probably more of a business centric device but with such a large screen it could have so easily been the ultimate work and pleasure phone.
I'm leaning towards the Nokia N900 (Linux) but still undecided.

Just some thoughts for your annoyances! (I currently own an Omnia too)
THE GRIZZ said:
1-the lack of front camera for 3G video calls. while i may not care a lot about video calls i imagine that many will be missing it.
3G has been around for a while with a front video camera, but I can truly say that I don't know a single person that actually uses it. It's a gimmick IMO.
2-i see no point of releasing a separate delayed hardware revision for US market. especially when you consider that the rest of the world version lacks the front camera just like every other US phone. the Acer F1(another 1 GHZ 3G phone) has been available for a while and it supports US 3G bands on the same hardware and it even has the front camera.
I don't see the point either - bit silly if you ask me.
3- considering that its the best multimedia phone made by HTC, its lacking the TV-out and the FM-Radio transmitter and better camera(all of which are supported by the N97)
FM what? It still bedazzles me that people listen to FM radio these days. Surely most people have unlimited internet now and like I just use internet radio. More stations! As for the TV-out, again, I don't see the point really. Personally I use my netbook/laptop/pc for plugging into a tv since they can play HD. I supposed it would be nice if you want to show off photos to friends but then we all have facebook these days anyway For me, not a sore exclusion.
4- the included 512MB ROM is a joke. i know that it can be expanded with SD card. but extra flash on the device is always useful. the 1.5 year old Omnia had 8/16/24BG+microSD why cant this have it. adding 8 or 16 GB flash costs HTC almost nothing to add
I love the additional 8GB of the Omnia, but I guess they have to keep costs down somewhere. I have a 16GB micro SD, but when are 24/32 going to be available? Anyone know?
5-lack of stylus: HTC patented the capacitive stylus but they didnt use it. i know the the screen is big enough to be very finger friendly. but its still windows mobile and some applications work need stylus (for example Pocket artist).
I think you can still use a stylus but you have to set it up to do so (I saw it in another post on here).
6- lack of hardware buttons (especially camera). i wish the added 2 or 3 buttons on the empty sides. WM will always make use of the hardware buttons
There is no excuse for extra buttons down the side, although it makes it a bit more sleek I guess. But it's not like it doesn't take photos, it's just a useablitly thing.
7-despite the very high specs, its still less than the minimum Windows mobile7 specs (which requires Tegra level graphics performance acceleration) which means that it will not be
upgradeable to wm7.
I'm not sure that's right is it? In that original Leo thread in the main board, wasn't it confirmed that it will be upgradable? I think it's remains a bit of an unknown at the moment. That said, will wm7 be complete in 12 months? Given M$'s history of keeping to their planned dates, I doubt it. I think cookers will make it happen anyway and if not, in 12 months it will be upgrade time. Did someone say HD3?!
8-i dont understand the 320+128MB. the dedicated 128MB for the low performing graphics chip seems pointless to me. if they are going to put all this memory there why didnt they allocate it to program memory.
This one I have no idea about. Maybe they have something clever up their sleeves?
9- i really love how HTC managed to make the device reasonably small considering the huge 4.3" screen. i still think that its physically too big for many people. the HD was not very pocket friendly and this one is even bigger. i wish the screen was 4.0" or even 3.8". considering their recent improved and more efficient designs, im sure HTC would have been able to even make it friendly for one hand use with a smaller screen.
Well lets look at the iPhone. It's a huge seller. The HD2 is only a couple of mm's wider and taller so I don't see anyone is going to see it as an issue when they put it in their hands.
10- im not too big on the micro-USB connector. they should have at lest included the hard to find mini-USB adapter with it. everybody already has several mini-USB cables/chargers but ive never actually seen a micro USB yet.
I totally disagree here. It's the new universal format. You won't have seen many yet because devices are JUST beginning to emerge with it (ie Omnia 2). Already it's working because Samsung usually have their own proprietary connector so to see them go universal is a fantastic step in the right direction. It would be blind of HTC not to follow. So yes, bin those old Mini-USB
11- they increased up the specs (and power usage i would assume) significantly from the first HD but they reduced the battery size from 1350 to 1250mah!!!. luckily the early reports are suggesting "acceptable" battery life
I really hope it can last at least one full day of decent usage without the requirement of a charge. Surely they wouldn't make this wonderful device then shoot themselves in the foot??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Anyway some good points there!

7-despite the very high specs, its still less than the minimum Windows mobile7 specs (which requires Tegra level graphics performance acceleration) which means that it will not be
upgradeable to wm7
I'm not sure that's right is it? In that original Leo thread in the main board, wasn't it confirmed that it will be upgradable? I think it's remains a bit of an unknown at the moment. That said, will wm7 be complete in 12 months? Given M$'s history of keeping to their planned dates, I doubt it. I think cookers will make it happen anyway and if not, in 12 months it will be upgrade time. Did someone say HD3?!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is very likely WM7 will be out by mid to late next year. WM8 is already being discussed as I understand it and WM6 and 6.5 have been universally panned (and quite rightly).
So if you purchase the HD2 assuming it will be out of date in less than 10 months then all well but I suspect many will not be happy (including me). I don't mind spending extra bucks now to avoid doubling my investment by having to purchase two devices in the space of 10 months!
Do you have the link to the original "in the original Leo thread in the main board, wasn't it confirmed that it will be upgradable? "

add this to the list:
1. lack of full-fledged graphics drivers (3D)
2. lack of d-pad; or trackball like blackberrys

1) Front Camera - most people don't use them so not a big deal
2) Buy the Acer if you like it (have fun)
3) it has got an FM Radio onboard I believe
4) Memory could be better but its got an SD card so just by a 16gb card.
5) The point is you don't need a stylus - am I missing something. If you wannt a Stylus get an Omnia 2
6) The camera button could have been useful - but nobody knows if one of the front buttons cannot be used. Shall we wait till its been reviewed fully before we slag it off.
7) Its been clearly stated that the specs do not say "Tegra" only. Thats just not true. Makes me laugh that a phone with great 3d potential and dedicated memory like the HD2 is being slagged off for no reason.
8) The screen size is the best part of the phone - it can be used to watch video, surf the net, etc. So it has to be big to fit the screen - not an issue.
9) Micro-USB!! - You mean the defacto standard now.
10) Nobody knows about battery life yet so lets hold fire.
Why are you interested in the phone if non of its main selling points you like?

because despite its "limitations" its still a lot better than the rest now.
take a chill pill dude and try to tone-down the fanboiasm. our nitpicking will make it very easy for HTC to make the HD3 a better device. also by highlighting them so early in its life, it will make easy easy for its users to deal with its potential issues

Teneka_Khan said:
1) Front Camera - most people don't use them so not a big deal
2) Buy the Acer if you like it (have fun)
3) it has got an FM Radio onboard I believe
4) Memory could be better but its got an SD card so just by a 16gb card.
5) The point is you don't need a stylus - am I missing something. If you wannt a Stylus get an Omnia 2
6) The camera button could have been useful - but nobody knows if one of the front buttons cannot be used. Shall we wait till its been reviewed fully before we slag it off.
7) Its been clearly stated that the specs do not say "Tegra" only. Thats just not true. Makes me laugh that a phone with great 3d potential and dedicated memory like the HD2 is being slagged off for no reason.
8) The screen size is the best part of the phone - it can be used to watch video, surf the net, etc. So it has to be big to fit the screen - not an issue.
9) Micro-USB!! - You mean the defacto standard now.
10) Nobody knows about battery life yet so lets hold fire.
Why are you interested in the phone if non of its main selling points you like?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haved discovered that it does support WM7http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=7528 states
(QCOM 8k, Nvidia “Tegra” AP15/16* and TI 3430 all meet spec)
Qualcomm 8k = Snapdragon's QSD8xxx-series chips = Qualcomm Snapdragon QSD8250 (which is in the Leo).. so the processor should meet WM7 chassis 1 requirement.
To answer the FM radio question - the answer is YES
http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_hd2-2957.php
I agree with the comments above. There is no such thing as a perfect device but you have got to congratulate HTC on the HD2 being one of the closest to it.

alecs said:
I haved discovered that it does support WM7http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=7528 states
(QCOM 8k, Nvidia “Tegra” AP15/16* and TI 3430 all meet spec)
Qualcomm 8k = Snapdragon's QSD8xxx-series chips = Qualcomm Snapdragon QSD8250 (which is in the Leo).. so the processor should meet WM7 chassis 1 requirement.
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The processor does, but the Chassis 1 spec also specifies at least 1GB of flash (and at least 512mb fast flash).
The HD2 only comes with 512mb internal memory.

Sc4Freak said:
The processor does, but the Chassis 1 spec also specifies at least 1GB of flash (and at least 512mb fast flash).
The HD2 only comes with 512mb internal memory.
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By 1GB of flash I believe that means available storage i.e. an SD card
Memory: 256MB+ DRAM, 1G+ Flash (at least 512MB fast flash – 5MB/s unbuffered read @4K block size)
I am not sure what fast flash means but these are minumum specs and doesn't mean the device can't run WM7, it may just lag in certain spots though somehow I doubt this thing will lag even on WM7

Is the specified 65k for the screen a hardware or software limitation? I know Windows Mobile 6.5 only supports 65k effective colors, but when WM 7 launches would the device be able to display more colors?

Toss3 said:
Is the specified 65k for the screen a hardware or software limitation? I know Windows Mobile 6.5 only supports 65k effective colors, but when WM 7 launches would the device be able to display more colors?
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sure it does . they dont make "65K color display" !

Most mobile phone LCD screens are 262K colours (18-bit). (This includes many of the displays used on phones that are advertised as supporting 24-bit colour.)

manuelcalavera said:
sure it does . they dont make "65K color display" !
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But does anyone know the actual maximum bit-depth of the display?

The GRIZZ said:
3- considering that its the best multimedia phone made by HTC, its lacking the TV-out and the FM-Radio transmitter and better camera(all of which are supported by the N97)
FM what? It still bedazzles me that people listen to FM radio these days. Surely most people have unlimited internet now and like I just use internet radio. More stations! As for the TV-out, again, I don't see the point really. Personally I use my netbook/laptop/pc for plugging into a tv since they can play HD. I supposed it would be nice if you want to show off photos to friends but then we all have facebook these days anyway For me, not a sore exclusion.
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Dude theres a difference between FM Receiver and FM Transmitter. A FM Transmitter is important for those who own a car. The FM Transmitter can be used to transmit Music at a certain frequency which can be tuned to in the car using the Cars FM Radio!
The HD2 already has a FM Receiver. It might also support FM Transmission capabilities but that depends on which chip its using.
Video Out is certainly a welcome addon. Showing off Photos on a LCD is way better than telling them to login to Facebook! I for one will surely miss the TV Out.
Inspite of that, I consider these two features to be of very less importance when compared to the other feature set. This is the THE KILLER phone everyone was waiting for!

Prefer Touch HD over HD2
I agree with Grizzly on almost every point he's been making so far. Before I catch the flames too I shall start with a story...
My HP iPAQ was stolen from a payphone booth within one minute where I forgot it at an airport a year ago. This was my first real PDA and I was extraordinarily disappointed. I had racked up a lot of apps on it and and had even made the home screen sexy and easy to use with a few mods. Going from interfacing my custom cycles with the PCR machine (lab work) to playing old favourites like SimCity 2000 in lectures was great!
The next thing I obviously wanted was a PDA PHONE, so I didn't have to use a payphone booth again... so I got the Touch HD when it just came out in Oz from Telstra (who still sell it for $1500 - 215% markup). And it was absolutely perfect. Did everything, well supported by the community, and using it as a phone and an organizer that synced with outlook it worked a charm. Then last month getting a taxi back from the pub, I was left at a busway because the taxi driver who was fresh from India could not find my home as it wasn't on the GPS. Calling another taxi I got mugged for it while I was using it, snatched it from my hand. So now I was faced with having to get a new phone.
I have bought a Touch HD again. You see, the HD2 as fantastic as it is, is half way between being a traditional WM phone and an Android phone. Without the use of a stylus, how can you hand write down meeting notes? How can I use all my legacy games and applications? What's the point of having something a little zippier when the new manilla (which is a bit too busy) is going to be hacked onto the Touch HD anyway and it doesn't have the Tegra for true gaming pwnage or audiophile quality audio or a true camera replacement camera? Also the lack of 3G camera ticks me off too. I can't video call my parents in NZ which although is horrendously expensive, I enjoy doing on birthdays and so on - on special occasions we're often away from our computers.
What I am going to do is stick with my tried and tested HD and see if the HD2 has any advantage over the Dragon before I upgrade. Or even other non-HTC devices (god forbid) should they provide Audio/Graphics advantages. Because really the point of this thing is to replace the need to carry around other devices. Otherwise just get something that is only a phone, right?

I just found this vid, shows the games on it and well there is only 1 teeter! How could they cut solitaire and bubble breaker! What am i gonna waste time with now...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntZQ0iXzyvc&feature=player_embedded
Its @ about 2:45

THE GRIZZ said:
our nitpicking will make it very easy for HTC to make the HD3 a better device.
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Very much so. HTC an enormous international company dedicated to producing a whole range of phones and mobile devices needs listen to random forum posters who can't even get their facts straight.
I'd like to take the opportunity to thank you for helping make the HD3 into the perfect device, derailing HTC's initial plans of improving the phone by removing the screen entirely and replacing it with a bar of soap. Your factual inaccuracies are making the mobile world a better place.

Since there is no dedicated off/on hardware ringer switch, is there a way to silence the phone while it is locked?

the volume rocker is normally used for something like that
mr_Ray said:
Very much so. HTC an enormous international company dedicated to producing a whole range of phones and mobile devices needs listen to random forum posters who can't even get their facts straight.
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Please spare us your fan-boyish drivel. What I mentioned in the OP are all valid concerns