Related
I've been a long term HTC fan, having had a Cingular 8125 for over a year. I just got a TyTN and immediately added a 2 G micro SD card and then loaded that up with software: uBook, NewsGator Go for blogs, Egress for podcasts, SBSH Weather, and MortPlayer. It was very unstable, freezing about half a dozen times a day. Doing a little research, I found that the presence of a micro SD card was implicated in freezing. Freezing is where the phone part of the TyTN continues to work (green light continues to blink), but the Windows part is locked up. I've removed the weather and Egress items from the Today screen, and so far that's reduced the freezes to once a day.
I would like the Hermes to be as reliable as the wizard which went weeks without me resetting it. I'm currently on ROM 1.18.255.3. Is moving to a new ROM version likely to fix this freezing problem? Are there people out there using a 2 G micro SD without a freezing problem? I understand there's a new ROM due out at the end of January, should I hold off till that comes out?
I mean to add that I have a HT636 serial number in case it is hardware related.
Aha! evidence indicates micro card
By removing various software from the today screen, there was no reason for any software to look at the micro card. The phone had not crashed, and yet the file manager showed that the micro card was not present.
But this stinks, I got the phone so it would hold a gigabyte of stuff, mostly podcasts.
At least can feel confident in the problem. Any chance it could the SANS micro SD card?
Not sure why your file explorer is saying there is no micro-sd card.
I use the same card as you and do not have as many hangs as you.
Some things to be aware of.
Best practice suggests putting in main memory anything that is used on the today screen or by phone application. In other words anything the device would need on coming out of sleep mode is best placed in Main memory.
Everything else can be placed on the SD card.
If you do not use push email you should carefully apply the "fake server" trick
You probably are, but you must use a task manager (say magic button or the like) to properly shut down applications.
I personally steer clear of today plugins that automatically connect to the net for data - e.g. weather/traffic/news type programmes.
Mike
Thank you for your ideas.
I guess I was spoiled by the 8125. Perhaps that it uses the regular SD instead of the micro-SD is the reason. All my apps on the 8125 were on the storage card, and I didn't force applications to quit.
I guess I just need to accept that the TyTN is more touchy about the card and try working around it.
Thanks for the feedback.
I did the same as you, added a 2 gig card from the start. I have journal bar running for weather and news, loaded in main memory, everything else is on the micro SD card. I had the same lockups as you are seeing but it's not the microSD in my case.
I found that the phone "wakes" often for calls, notifications etc. while in it's holster. When it wakes all keys are "unlocked" and subject to getting pressed. From this forum, I applied all the patches and tweakes like Auto-lock on power up, PTT button re-mapping, and many registery tweaks for bluetooth accys.
Mine almost never hangs now. The main culprit now seems to be when connecting/disconnecting it to a charger sometimes turns off bluetooth or hangs the unit, but it's intermittent.
Overall I'me very happy now, till "Kaiser" comes out...
Thank you for the info. I'm going to move the sensitive applications to the main memory. Do you think the ROM version could be contributing to the failures? I have 1.18 and I believe there is an official 1.35 out that is later.
Thanks
Another Way to Speed Up your Hermes
This Might Help You Making Performance of your Hermes Better
WM5_Tweaks_Performance
Espacially by:
Enable FileSystem cache
Increase FileSystem cache
Increase FileSystem filter cache
NOTE: These Tweaks Helped Me ALOT.....
Thanks for the ideas about tweaks. I'm going to see how stable I can make it before applying any of them.
applied all of them and it does seem significantly faster now.
I'd definitely recommend the ROM upgrade, I have never experienced the silly lock ups that I used to since.
I just experienced my first freeze on my Vario II (UK).
I got the phone on saturday, and used it for the first time as an alarm clock yesterday and everything was great (sunday I forgot to turn it off silent - boo that you have to remember).
This morning my alarm didn't go off, when I woke up the phone had frozen and wouldn't display anything - but the light was still flashing. I haven't got a MicroSD yet.
Would I have the latest ROM as I have only just got the phone? If not, how do I upgrade or find out what version of the ROM I have?
i am on the std rom released by imate in australia 2.3 i think. i have used many including xdaII and the universal.
the current hermes is the most reliable, most stable, and most amount of uptime with the best battery life, so overall i am very happy.
by the same token, i have been here long enough to know exactly what needs to happen to totally rebuild these devices from the basic rom to a device that works efficiently.
it is vital that you apply all things that are required or used during the initial startup, including things in the startup directory, and on the today screen to be present in main memory.
i have also found that icons on today or in start menu that are loaded on an sd card can slow the device down.
having memory readers on the today screen, reading the SD card memory isnt good either.
using and going through a lot of the registry hacks are useful, but not necesarily for the speed, hangs, but for functionality.
also, custom applications that are installed on the sd card i move out of the program directory to a sub directory called custom apps. this is simply to ease the speed of opening, and when i open custom, i accept a minor second or two delay rather than immediate.
i did have (not recently) have problems with the system loosing the sd card directory, which a soft reboot fixes. which is all the more importance of hiding the icons and applications from day to day interaction that use the SD card.
you can also look at reformatting the card.
i also did find that doing a full back (SPB) and doing a restore speeded up the device noticably.
there may also be speed issues if you dont synchronise regularly, and the notifications queue on previous devices also caused problem, but havent found much here.
doing other simple stuff like error reporting, disabling bluetooth auto beam is also a good start.
using ring tones or themes that are on the sd card are also not as reliable than locating in immediate ram.
so rule of thumb, you need to be able to boot up and use your device completely independently of your SD card, and only access the storage card for apps that you call for, and for data that isnt needed immediately on boot up, to store songs, files, documents and related types.
hope it helps. but in answer to your question, if you can get a more updated rom, you will definitely get a benefit, but quantifying the benefit is hard. new roms are released for a reason, so consider them seriously.
that said, if you dont need to wait for a supported rom rather than crossing platforms, this is always difficult and should only be done with extensive knowledge. as such, i dont have that many problems i cant overcome, and so am waiting for the official imate rom to be released....
hope it helps with some ideas and areas to consider
S.
ben2004uk; have a read of the wiki, it's all there should you wish to upgrade. It is fairly simple.
Freeze's gone
Ok, I feel a lot better. I've moved the one critical today add-in (weather) to main memory. I've only occassionally accessed the external storage. But with that configuration I now was able to go about 5 days without a freeze!
So I conclude that the storage card is not waking up quick enough or something like that. Other people have said it, but don't put any "always running" or "today related" software on the storage card.
I'm still on 1.18 ROMs, but I think I'll hold off for a while before upgrading. I just don't feel like rebuilding the machine right now.
how to determine ROM versions.
ben2004uk said:
I just experienced my first freeze on my Vario II (UK).
I got the phone on saturday, and used it for the first time as an alarm clock yesterday and everything was great (sunday I forgot to turn it off silent - boo that you have to remember).
This morning my alarm didn't go off, when I woke up the phone had frozen and wouldn't display anything - but the light was still flashing. I haven't got a MicroSD yet.
Would I have the latest ROM as I have only just got the phone? If not, how do I upgrade or find out what version of the ROM I have?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It took me the longest time to find this as the wiki did not address it. go the start menu, then settings. Then click on the system tab at the bottom. Select the Device Information control panel. Now go to the TyTN wiki: http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=Hermes_Upgrades
and review your options. At Feb 1, 2007, 1.35 appears to be the latest official one.
Hi,
Recently bought a SHIFT. Fantastic device. Only problem is SD card shows error when removed and re-inserted.
Once re-inserted, the card is not visible. Under device manager, the following error is listed:
Windows cannot load the device driver for this
hardware because a previous instance of the device driver is still in memory.
(Code 38)
Suprisingly enough, the resolution suggested by our good friends at MS is to Reboot the device. Obviously this works, but the problem comes back once the card is removed again.
I have tried pretty much everything, include waving a magic feather across the keyboard, with no luck.
Things I have tried:
1. Clearing the INF cache - to rebuild he caceh files, as suggested by some forums - FAILED
2. Re-loaded entire O/S (from Fn+F3) and applied SP1 (no other software loaded onto it). Although this was fantastic for the overall operation/performance of the device, still - FAILED
3. Tried different SD cards - FAILED
4. Waive magic feather - FAILED, although it made me sneeze a few times
Note about (3) - SD cards used, 256MB Sandisk (40x), 2GB 50x Sandisk Extreme II, 8GB SDHC Extreme III C6 card. No MMC/XD tried, and don't intend to.
System Note:
Device is Standard HTC Shift, Vista Business 6.0.6001 SP1 Build 6001.
I would greatly appreciate suggestions or assistance. I would love to get this working, as ReadyBoost + 4GB C6 card will truly boost a 1GB device like this.
PS: I HIGHLY RECOMMEND SP1, and if you are not a visual junky like me, goto Performance settings and kill all the Vista fancies (i.e. it will basically look like XP once you do that). The device is super-fast for me, running Next-G on it. I use it with a very bulky share trading package (uses DotNet1.1) and it is very smooth.
Well I am facing simila problem. help would be very much appreciated.
I will try your advice on using SP1.
CTS
SP1 will definitely improve performance. I found that installing SP1 after I have installed software caused problems, especially anti-virus.
Read my post on re-install Vista and applying SP1, that seemed to work perfectly:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=384333&page=2
I'm having this same issue. I've already installed SP1, and am not keen on reinstalling the whole system just to fix this one small issue.
Apologies, I'm just writing a "me-too" post so I can get a notification if anyone suggests another solution.
do you have zone alarms installed by any chance? i had a problem where drivers wouldnt load for wifi, bluetooth, card reader and other devices but after uninstalling zone alarm, the problem ceased to exist.
No Zone Alarm here
Hi,
Perhaps my note was unclear. SP1 DID NOT resolve the issue, it did boost performance significantly. So if you have installed SP1 and still getting SD issues, you can hop into the same boat!
Specifically related to this post is the SD memory card issue - after reboot, inserting and removing card, putting PC to sleep/hibernate causes "SD driver instance in memory issue".
I am assuming this will definitely be an issue across all HTC SHIFTs using SD, if anyone has successfully used an SD card with the SHIFT (as in doesnt get the problem stated above), please post a note with the driver details (version, date, filenames) thanks. Note that the drivers will be listed under the "Disk Drives" category of Device Manager, not the controller.
arvinf,
I am using a 16gb sdhc having 4gb reserved for Readyboost. I keep readyboost always active, and the sd is always visible after resume. I hope it helps
jarbi said:
arvinf,
I am using a 16gb sdhc having 4gb reserved for Readyboost. I keep readyboost always active, and the sd is always visible after resume. I hope it helps
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
can you please post the name and model number of your sd card? maybe different brand acts differently.
arvinf said:
Hi,
Perhaps my note was unclear. SP1 DID NOT resolve the issue, it did boost performance significantly. So if you have installed SP1 and still getting SD issues, you can hop into the same boat!
Specifically related to this post is the SD memory card issue - after reboot, inserting and removing card, putting PC to sleep/hibernate causes "SD driver instance in memory issue".
I am assuming this will definitely be an issue across all HTC SHIFTs using SD, if anyone has successfully used an SD card with the SHIFT (as in doesnt get the problem stated above), please post a note with the driver details (version, date, filenames) thanks. Note that the drivers will be listed under the "Disk Drives" category of Device Manager, not the controller.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
my SD is fine after sleep and after hibernation too, tried reinsertion, fine so far.
vista is annoying with this popup asking if i want to scan the sd contents
anyway, driver version for sd under disk drives is 6.0.6000.16478 (from microsoft). (no SP1 yet, WM side is more important now)
the SD is a topram 2GB.
cmonex said:
my SD is fine after sleep and after hibernation too, tried reinsertion, fine so far.
the SD is a topram 2GB.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Was the shift on the charger or with battery only?
What powerplan do you use?
When my Shift is on the charger I hardly ever have problems, but using the battery.....Brrrrrr,.
Huib
herpi said:
Was the shift on the charger or with battery only?
What powerplan do you use?
When my Shift is on the charger I hardly ever have problems, but using the battery.....Brrrrrr,.
Huib
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I usually have it on battery to keep the battery cool (and so prolong its life).
my powerplan is customized powersaving plan. but all I really did was turn brightness lower so that it lasts 3+ hours on battery (bit less than 3 with wifi) and adjust sleep/screen turn off timeouts.
No idea why, but I am not losing my 16 GB SDHC card any more. Neither from Hibernate, nor from sleep.
Even using Power Saver.
With or without the charger plugged in......
Maybe changing/swapping SD cards gave the problems.
I keep a log now and keep you informed.
settings:
Readyboost ON (4 GB)
Power Saver ON
strange...
Huib
same problem also. That code 68 error is also eating up my hapyness. It seems the problems apear somewhat randomly in my case.
Same here,
The readyboost solution didn't work for me..
No I loose the SDHC even after sleep
After coming back from sleep mode I see the SDHC 16 gb card but cannot open it.
There is this grey bar on top that fills slowly, but still, the SD card does not show its contents.
Every other program works fine.
Using readyboost.
Then I could not restart so had to force it.
I will call my lawyer?
Huib
Guys,
I dont beleive the solution will relate to power plans, on battery, etc.
There are a couple of posts here and there that suggest there may be an inherent bug in Vista on some SD card readers, and the SHIFT may be one of them.
I re-iterate the issue is SD card is not recognised once it is removed and inserted, and has an error in device manager "another instance of the driver is in memory".
I noted that CMONEX uses a different version of the driver than me (mine is 6.0.6001.18000.
Anyone else who has successfully inserted/removed memory card with this version driver? Perhaps I have a buggy driver?
FYI this post on another site is exactly the same issue:
http://www.eggheadcafe.com/software/aspnet/31492924/bug-in-sd-memory-card-dri.aspx
I also have this problem on a Shift with Norwegian Vista.
Sometimes the card is still accessible after sleep/ hibernation or reinsertion but more often than not the driveletter disappeares and when looking in Device Manager the card is shown but with an exclamation mark and text telling me that another instance of the driver is already loaded (like others here have reported).
A full restart or first insertion of the card will invariably be successful, giving me access to the SD-card.
I'm feeling a bit silly bringing this up, but for some reason I can not seem to find/activate ReadyBoost on my Shift. It is available (at least the option to test the flash-mem) on other computers I have, but on my Shift the option is just not there. Does anyone have any suggestions?
in my case i can't see the card at all after the device wakes from standby. No drive letter, no icon no nothing.
trondkk said:
but for some reason I can not seem to find/activate ReadyBoost on my Shift. It is available (at least the option to test the flash-mem) on other computers I have, but on my Shift the option is just not there. Does anyone have any suggestions?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, The solution is available somewhere on this forum.
Using the search function, you should have no trouble finding it.
grtz,
Pfeffa-rah
I've been having an issue with my device. Once every week or so, something happens to my 16 GB SanDisk memory card. Exactly what happens I can't tell you, but it can be stuff from Media Player not beeing able to add files to the library (but plays them fine if you open them manually), to the phone freezing after entering PIN upon start-up. Sometimes it freezes randomly, and I have to remove the SD-card. Whenever this happen, using my card reader and running Vistas error-checking sorta helps it, or if I can isolate a file that causes a problem (not a program, any kind of file) and delete it, it usually works.
But, why does this happen? I never take the card out of the phone, except when trying to fix the errors. I sync over Bluetooth and USB, I've used different ROMs (I think, I've flashed quite a few recently so can't tell for sure), I've used diffrent line-up of programs, but it stills keep acting weird. Any clues? It's quite annoying. I didn't search the forums, since I honestly don't know what to search for. Any clues or search strings are most welcome! Thanks!
Forgot to mention, I'm currently running CRC's latest stable, but, as I said, I don't think that's the problem.
same thiong happened to me
My mem card started showing up files with some weird names, other files were unaccesible, programs stopped responding and the phone would freeze until I took out the mem card. What I id to fix the issue was, took out all the vital info (keep it minimal cuz there might be a corrupted file and we dont want to transfer that one to the phone again. format your memory card using a "low level" format application http://lmgtfy.com/?q=low+level+format+freeware+download+sd&l=1 then pop it back in again and the phome will format it, and transfer your old data back. This happened to me a while back and havnt had a single issue sience the low level thingie. Hopes this helps
I'm afraid this is a common enough problem and has been written about many times. Causes vary from software errors, switching off before all data is written or even physical contacts between phone and card (some evn say different brands of card work better).
If it happens that you see corrupt file names do not continue using the device or open programs or trying to delete data. Imediately perform a soft reset, this can recover (sometimes) the corrupt FAT file and save data.
The inability to save Media Player files to the library is an un-related issue and is a known software issue. You can overcome the issue by deleting the msmetadata file (search this forum for more info). Unfortunately it's something you may have to do fairly regularly.
Mike
People beware!!!
This failure X2 corrupts memory cards!
Completely corrputs the content!
Sooner or later you’ll also encounter this –
confirmed by many other users!
So if you still decide to use this unreliable piece of failure,
be sure to make backups!!!!
doministry said:
People beware!!!
This failure X2 corrupts memory cards!
Completely corrputs the content!
Sooner or later you’ll also encounter this –
confirmed by many other users!
So if you still decide to use this unreliable piece of failure,
be sure to make backups!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed,
I lost 7Gb aprox of very valuable stuff, like source code, documentation, photos, charts, music, software, video, backups, and so on..
I think i may found the pattern (kind of) because after the first corrupted memory it happend to me seeeeeveral times...
Its like if i start an app (lets say a game) that uses a lot of resources, the game is laggy and somehow it closes OR you use another app on the same time that is installed on the SD, like they crash by sharing some kind of resource... im not quite sure but at least two times after "playing" (i quote it because its mega laggy) i saw my Program Files folder EMPTY...
At least this time it doesnt f*** the whole card..
i wonder why OP hasnt posted a single good thing bout x2
i owe it and im quite satisfied with it it hass some things that need to be fixed but otherwise i like it
the only problem i have with it is that loses the sd card sometimes but as i read its the card problem (default one that came with it) its class2 (cheap $#"$#!%%&Z&#&"%%""% provider)
indycar: You are terrible wrong! The card problem issue is the X2 problem NOT card! I try a lot of cards (differents manufacturer, size, class). The point is, that X2 automatically turn off card when you stand by device and it turn on when you wake up X2 again. I´m thinking, that this should be a "feature" to increase power managing capabilities...
indycar said:
i wonder why OP hasnt posted a single good thing bout x2
i owe it and im quite satisfied with it it hass some things that need to be fixed but otherwise i like it
the only problem i have with it is that loses the sd card sometimes but as i read its the card problem (default one that came with it) its class2 (cheap $#"$#!%%&Z&#&"%%""% provider)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I wrote many good things about it before.
With a decent firmware it'a decent device and the best choice!!!!!!
But current firmware is a massacre confirmed by all users so no reason for good words....
The memory card problem is completely independent from the card, happened to me with both cards!!!
Another victim of memory card corruption. the whole content of the memory card just dissappear like*poof*. and the symtoms looks the same. system became incredably laggy all of the sudden. reboot the device and "watch your past disappear" (adapted from STFirst Contact when Borg Queen says "Watch your future ends")...
Ben
the weird thing about my card is that only SOME things disappeared, i had several folders on my card little by little they disappeared but the files that werent in folders stayed and never got deleted, thought the card itself did not gain/lose any memory.
my card is fine .. nothing happened
You corrupted people should try some file recovery software to recover your card content. There are plenty of free recovery programs on the internet. You'd have to stick your card into your computer and run the software on the disk. Report back if you get it to work because if could help others.
ring-bearer said:
You corrupted people should try some file recovery software to recover your card content. There are plenty of free recovery programs on the internet. You'd have to stick your card into your computer and run the software on the disk. Report back if you get it to work because if could help others.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most of my content was backed up so I will not hassle with this.
However I would love to know how to eventually format the card to
to not to slow it down...
This whole X2 case reminds me of N97 when it was introduced. Truly 'spooky' phone
My card is also from today one of those who messes up. My files does not get deleted but when browsing the card from the phone it sometimes contains perhaps two out of the folders, sometimes the files is there (i guess) but folder and file names seams renamed. A look at the card on my computer shows every file/folder/file name intact.
Guys,
You who had the SD-card corrupted, did you install any applications on it that you use frequently?
hertell said:
Guys,
You who had the SD-card corrupted, did you install any applications on it that you use frequently?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As you might have read, my card only looked corrupted in the phone file explorer but yes, I installed every application on the card. Most used is S2P and Pocket player and of course all my music used by the apps mentioned.
If running S2P listening to music,the app suddenly halts. I then shuts S2P down and starts file explorer to see what happened the card looks partially deleted or all folder and file names corrupted (mounting the card on PC shows no errors at all).
In the beginning I had Outlook save incoming mail on card but as the card disconnects outlook creates a folder, Storage Card in root of phone. That creates a problem when the phone mounts the card again since it gets named Storage Card2 instead. That messes up all short cuts created by me or phone to the applications installed at the card.
I use card pre packed with phone and I see no reason to try another since others here reports no difference when replacing card.
hertell said:
Guys,
You who had the SD-card corrupted, did you install any applications on it that you use frequently?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The moment my card got corrputed
I quit using X2 completely.
I've seen no sense in further struggling and
I also have no time for that.
Why the question?
MR2 also screws it?!
TLDR: Don't install programs or attachments on your storage card.
I am now 100% certain that power management is behind the disappearing storage card issue, and is a culprit in a number of other bugs. It looks like when you put the device into standby, it switches off power to a number of components.
It's easy to see what happens with the storage card if you use SPB Mobile Shell. There's a handy shortcut under Tools - Browse Files - Storage Card. If you put that shortcut on your home screen and come out of standby, you'll usually see the icon return to the default unassigned shortcut. After anywhere between a fraction of and many seconds, the SD card icon will reappear.
Seems like some genius engineer at Foxconn, not knowing much about WinMo or stuff in general thought he was being very clever by saving what, 10mA? in shutting it off. Think of all those extra minutes of standby time saved.
I too suffered from a corrupted FAT, but thankfully all I really lost was MP3s I already had elsewhere. Since I figured out what's going on, I've had no trouble whatsoever. It does of course mean that I've had to make yet more compromises in the functionality of the device. The key is to make sure not to install programs on the storage card, or if you must, make sure the phone doesn't go into standby while running them. Also, don't choose to store email and MMS attachments on the card, or you'll get the Storage Card2 problem.
Stupid power management also explains these other things that have been bothering me, and many of you:
Notification sounds and lights not working properly.
Sporadic checking of email.
Custom ringtones disappearing (Hint: put them on main memory).
The phone randomly freezing when trying to work with Bluetooth car kits.
Presumably Sony engineers are aware of this, because if they aren't, God help us. I'm guessing that power management is such a low level issue that it's very difficult to fix with firmware if at all. That being the case, I'm not confident this phone will ever work properly and has most likely sounded the death knell for me for both Sony Ericsson and WinMo.
@bedlam_au
You may be right about power management.
That may be the answer.
Before my card corruption when I was entering SlideView
I always saw it REFRESHING media content,
like looking for it again and again....
have you tried it?
Code:
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\Power\State\Suspend]
"shc1:"=dword:00000000
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\Power\State\Resuming]
"shc1:"=dword:00000000
We have been testing it with my friend for a while (since 24th of april) and he hasn't got any storage card problems after applying this *.reg. He had them every time before that.
@ultrashot: I think you've done it! Changed those keys and didn't even need to soft reset. I've been checking all day and haven't seen the storage card disappear once. Presumably it's going to stay that way.
Does someone feel like making up a cab for this? It'd make many people's day.
bedlam_au,
I've had the phone for about a week now, and it's been really crash-prone and unstable for the first couple of days. I previously had an HD7 for 4 weeks, so I immediately set up my DVP like I had the HD7 set up.
It was so buggy, I hard reset at least a couple of times in those few days. My most recent hard reset was on Sunday, and lo and behold, I didn't experience any crashes for 4 days!
That started me thinking. The difference between the previous hard reset and the current hard reset was that I hadn't loaded many apps or any mp3s yet - so I loaded the same amount of MP3s as I had before (about 8gb) and immediately any new programs started crashing! In fact, I think just about anything that wrote to the disk exhibited errors, from newly downloaded and installed apps to existing apps which does disk I/O. The marketplace crashed all the time while downloading or installing apps.
My best guess as to the cause of the issue is that the SD card is corrupting data. As long as you are using the internal storage, everything runs fine - but once data is written to the SD card, things are getting corrupted. I'm not sure about this, it's just a guess.
At the OS level, the internal storage is combined with the SD card into a single logical disk - AKA JBOD in RAID terms. I'm not sure about the OS-level algorithm it uses to determine whether or not to save to internal vs SD card, but my guess is that it writes to the internal first, then when that is exceeded, it writes to the SD card. Even after removing some MP3s, I still had crashes, so I'm guessing that it doesn't overwrite the same sectors that previously held data until all the "fresh" sectors have been used (ie it was still writing to the SD card).
If this is the case, then the culprits could be either A) Dell's crappy SD card drivers corrupting the data or B) a crappy quality SD card corrupting the data. Given their recent QC issues i'm inclined to think it's B - but I hope it's A because that would imply a software fix as opposed to having to replace hardware.
Either way, I'll write a program to test my hypothesis: It'll create a test files of a specific size and then read them back and check that the test data is correct.
Thoughts? Has anybody else noticed similar behavior after filling up their storage?
I suspected the SD card as well, which is why I included the remaining storage space in the options in the poll at http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=891295
That being said, some others have said that doing a system reset on their phone did not fix the crashing problems. There are 2 major unknown variables here of course - when the phone is using the SD card vs. internal memory, and whether everyone is experiencing the same type of crashing.
pjfan75 said:
I suspected the SD card as well, which is why I included the remaining storage space in the options in the poll at http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=891295
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if there were multiple causes for the all the crashes people are experiencing - most likely the SD card may be responsible for some of those, while other issues are causing more crashes.
Impossible to tell at the moment, though. But perhaps the reason why people associated wifi with crashing was that they were using the wifi to load more data than they were over 3G?
I've thought about the apps too. AP mobile is one that is involved on my list. Shazam, yelp, where, are others. I an make my hd7 crash with each of them. However, that does not eliminate sd card. Optimal read/write access speed will probably impact crash, lag, and performance.
Based on this thread it sounds like it's probably more of a driver issue.
alodar1 said:
I've thought about the apps too. AP mobile is one that is involved on my list. Shazam, yelp, where, are others. I an make my hd7 crash with each of them. However, that does not eliminate sd card. Optimal read/write access speed will probably impact crash, lag, and performance.
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I've used those apps on the HD7 and I don't think they ever crashed it - not nearly as often as the DVP crashes.
zaijian said:
But perhaps the reason why people associated wifi with crashing was that they were using the wifi to load more data than they were over 3G?
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Click to collapse
That and also at a much higher rate than 3G typically.
zaijian said:
Based on this thread it sounds like it's probably more of a driver issue.
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Click to collapse
I don't know if I would agree with that. I would hope that drivers would be the same on all devices. To have 1 fail and 20 not fail....is it driver? I would be curious to know what the failure rates would be. Sure we see alot of complaints here on this forum....but there is not a whole lot of traffic about failure of the DVP. All in All, I'm happy with the DVP. I also have a HD7...and I'm happy with that. I have them both sitting here...and when I make a decision to use a phone of my choice...I've chosen the DVP.
With all things being equal, if I get into a fight, the DVP can be used as a weapon.
I've used up quite a bit of storage but the only time I seem to get a crash is when I enable WiFi, otherwise my DVP seems to run stable.
efjay said:
I've used up quite a bit of storage but the only time I seem to get a crash is when I enable WiFi, otherwise my DVP seems to run stable.
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I have the same results, I went crash free for 2 days without WiFi I wanted to test it and turned it back on and it crashed within a few min.
I have a replacement coming from Dell but I doubt they will have it fixed. I'm hoping it would be something that can be fixed by an update.
Mine crashes too!!
I too am experiencing many of the issues that have been posted on this forum (crashing w/wo wifi, while in MP, or when an app needs data from the internet). Twice I have reached in my pocket, hit the power button to bring up the lock screen and nothing happens - just a blank screen. Hence had to pull the battery and reboot.
A couple of other things I have noticed that I am not sure I have seen on the forums. Does anyone else have a DVP where the top left edge and the bottom right edge are not flush with the bottom of the phone? It is slight, but I noticed it on day one. Also, I have a heck of a time with the accelerometer sticking. Sometimes it refuses to go back into portrait mode. No mater how I turn and twist it (360 deg).
Anyone else experience this?
I used to use the power button to get to the unlock screen, but after fumbling with it a few times in the dark, I switched to flipping out the keyboard, which does the same thing. And while it did often take multiple presses of the power button to wake the DVP, I have never had to pull the battery.
I've had the DVP since November 8th, and had it crash on my severely enough for a battery pull maybe 3-4 times tops. This is both on the "engineering" phone and the "retail" phone. The only difference I have with you guys - and this is pretty significant - is that I hacked my SD card pretty much within the first couple of days of getting it. I've upgraded to a SanDisk class 2 16GB.
Now, I haven't particularly filled it up; in fact, I have tons of space free. But, I'd like to set some facts straight:
1) The DVP has no internal storage. Just a few megs (~16MB or so) just so the OS can run if you pull the SD card. Nothing new here; we've seen this during the first days of the SD card hack thread.
2) If you fill up your storage, and applications request for IsolatedStorage, the request will most likely fail if you have (close to) zero storage free. If applications don't check for that, it will probably crash. I don't know if this is necessarily happening, since I don't have a crashing device to observe this behaviour, but that's one hunch. Some of you have said that the HD7 did not crash when you filled up the storage, which might throw my theory out the window.
3) The SD card used in the DVP is also a SanDisk - I tend to trust them with storage reliability. If it is indeed a driver issue, then Microsoft might have some share in the blame as well - MS writes drivers for the OEMs for WP7.
What we need to do is scientifically reproduce the issue. Instead of general data corruption, another thing to check is to see what happens as storage gets filled up.
kltye said:
What we need to do is scientifically reproduce the issue. Instead of general data corruption, another thing to check is to see what happens as storage gets filled up.
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I attempted to do just that - I wrote a storage test app and ran it on my DVP, and it encountered no issues.
The app wrote test data, filling up 95% of available free space (around 13.3GB), then read it back in and verified the data. I'm now fairly confident that it's not the SD card or the storage drivers that are responsible for the crashing.
I did however, encounter issues trying to download the Rise of Glory game. I had turned wifi off, but it's large enough that it requires wifi or sync in order to download and install. Once I turned wifi on and retried the download, the phone crashed on me.
Let's see if we can verify the wifi + marketplace issue:
1) make sure phone wifi is off
2) connect DVP to computer, run Zune
3) via zune sync, verify that you can install a large game or app on your phone. It has to be one which you haven't downloaded before, as I don't think you can force zune to reinstall an app it knows you already downloaded.
4) disconnect the phone
5) verify the game runs correctly
6) uninstall the game on the phone
7) turn phone wifi on
8) go into marketplace on the phone
9) reinstall the same game and see if you have any issues with marketplace while downloading (freezing/hanging/etc)
10) if everything's still ok, verify that the game runs correctly
@Zaijian
I tried reproducing your flow on my DVP and it didn't crash. But, what is strange is mine freezes (only twice so far) @ random right after playing and trying to get to some other app or switching between app. This tends me to side on the memory as being the culprit or some other component being the culprit. Most likely could be memory related and how WP7 manages to kill an app. Is there a memtest kind of thing we could run on this DVP?
I wrote a wifi transfer testing app and ran it overnight - it transferred 4GB over my wifi (from my desktop to the phone) correctly and without incident.
So, i've confirmed that:
A) there's nothing wrong with writing a single large file to the file system
B) there's nothing wrong with transferring data over wifi
My next tests will be:
1) simultaneously writing multiple large files to the file system
2) simultaneoulsy writing files to the file system and transferring data over wifi
3) some sort of memory test to see if memory is getting corrupted
WiFi seems to be the issue
Not much question that mine locks up when WiFi is turned on. I have been experimenting with this issue for the past few days and while having WiFi on causes random lock-ups, not having it on makes it run without any issues.
Fortunately, most of the areas I use my phone have good 3G coverage so WiFi acting up is not a deal breaker but I certainly hope they are able to fix this with the impending update.
One consideration is could there be an app we all have that uses WiFi that is causing trouble? Has anyone had issues with this from a fresh device? I seem to recall having it lock up early on before I put many apps on it.
jetjockgordo said:
Not much question that mine locks up when WiFi is turned on. I have been experimenting with this issue for the past few days and while having WiFi on causes random lock-ups, not having it on makes it run without any issues.
Fortunately, most of the areas I use my phone have good 3G coverage so WiFi acting up is not a deal breaker but I certainly hope they are able to fix this with the impending update.
One consideration is could there be an app we all have that uses WiFi that is causing trouble? Has anyone had issues with this from a fresh device? I seem to recall having it lock up early on before I put many apps on it.
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Click to collapse
My problems seem to occur when I'm going through the marketplace and downloading via wifi.
I verified with my test app that wifi can transfer a large amount of data without errors. This leads me to believe that the wifi itself is not the cause of the issues, but that wifi in combination with other factors may be the cause.
zaijian said:
My problems seem to occur when I'm going through the marketplace and downloading via wifi.
I verified with my test app that wifi can transfer a large amount of data without errors. This leads me to believe that the wifi itself is not the cause of the issues, but that wifi in combination with other factors may be the cause.
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I thought so too but I left the WiFi on and rebooting without accessing Marketplace has been causing lockups as well. In fact, I just noticed it was locked up after a reboot 10 minutes ago and, sure enough, I left WiFi on. I didn't so much as unlock the screen after the reboot although I have also had it lock up while accessing Marketplace.
jetjockgordo said:
I thought so too but I left the WiFi on and rebooting without accessing Marketplace has been causing lockups as well. In fact, I just noticed it was locked up after a reboot 10 minutes ago and, sure enough, I left WiFi on. I didn't so much as unlock the screen after the reboot although I have also had it lock up while accessing Marketplace.
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Click to collapse
I'll test using wifi simultaneously with local disk I/O and see if that causes errors.