Database Users

Should i buy Athena??

At the moment i have the universal, and uses it primarily for navigation and reading e books. have normal SEk810i for phoning.
i have been waiting for the omni, but date keeps pushing and no official responses has been made whether it comes or not.
And now i have found me a very nice offer that i can afford
Its the HTC Advantage X7500 and not the 7501.
How simple will the upgrade be to wm6 ?
and what other differences is there beside the fmradio (which doesn't matter to me)?
should i go for this or should i wait ?
One last note, the size of the athena doesnt scare me, i like big screen when reading and using navi.

I bought one 7500 couple of months before. The upgrade to WM6 was easy, but... I wouldn't buy it again - the microdrive makes me very big problems (it stops working in unpredictable times - not realiable) and also the GPS chipset inside is not SirfStarIII, be careful, if you need it for detailed measurements... :-(((

the athenais an amazing device look at the thread in the upgrading section called 'athena & WM6 getting rid...' and have you considered the shift it is bigger but a huge screen gps and phone 30GB vista and everything you could everneed (apart from a great battery life if using Vista) it is a bit more money and not released till 21st of december in uk not sure about ret of world also a higher screen resolution

spzero said:
the athenais an amazing device look at the thread in the upgrading section called 'athena & WM6 getting rid...' and have you considered the shift it is bigger but a huge screen gps and phone 30GB vista and everything you could everneed (apart from a great battery life if using Vista) it is a bit more money and not released till 21st of december in uk not sure about ret of world also a higher screen resolution
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why does everyone keep saying the shift does large screen GPS, None of the GPS solutions for Vista are as good as tomtom and the like for PPC and none of the pictures of the shift show it using the full wide screen when in PPC mode, this means that the 4:3 image in a 7" wide screen is barely over the 5" screen of the athena anyway.

Shift would simply be to big for my tastes. need something that can fit in my pocket easily due to my job. and the battery life discourages me also.
so today i went in with both legs and bought a brand spanking new athena.
i had won one on an auction, but after winning i got email from the seller saying sorry but it has broken and he has to cancel auction. ( still thinks he was pissed not getting the doe he was expecting )
so now i have gotten it today. have hardSpl'd it and flashed the pk3 rom. and i have that warm feeling inside again
i have to say that with mobipocket installed it is just perfect for reading, and when it comes to navigation, i have the full tomtom6 and so far no problems with the gps reception. and if the problem should arise i have my tomtom bluetooth antenna to be fired up in case..
so for now i will enjoy my new toy and hope it will last me a good while (wife will go mad if i want a new one for at least the next year ...)
what i have seen so far has been all good, hope it lasts

charon72 said:
Shift would simply be to big for my tastes. need something that can fit in my pocket easily due to my job. and the battery life discourages me also.
so today i went in with both legs and bought a brand spanking new athena.
i had won one on an auction, but after winning i got email from the seller saying sorry but it has broken and he has to cancel auction. ( still thinks he was pissed not getting the doe he was expecting )
so now i have gotten it today. have hardSpl'd it and flashed the pk3 rom. and i have that warm feeling inside again
i have to say that with mobipocket installed it is just perfect for reading, and when it comes to navigation, i have the full tomtom6 and so far no problems with the gps reception. and if the problem should arise i have my tomtom bluetooth antenna to be fired up in case..
so for now i will enjoy my new toy and hope it will last me a good while (wife will go mad if i want a new one for at least the next year ...)
what i have seen so far has been all good, hope it lasts
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
welcome to the club

spzero said:
the athenais an amazing device look at the thread in the upgrading section called 'athena & WM6 getting rid...' and have you considered the shift it is bigger but a huge screen gps and phone 30GB vista and everything you could everneed (apart from a great battery life if using Vista) it is a bit more money and not released till 21st of december in uk not sure about ret of world also a higher screen resolution
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
IMHO, the Shift cannot be compared to a Windows Mobile device.
I carry a Windows notebook computer as well as a Windows Mobile device.
Now, that I have an Advantage, I find myself using the notebook computer far less often. The long boot-up time of the PC, and the easy synch of my data along with nearly-instant "on" of the Advantage, make my Advantage my first choice nearly all of my away-from-office time.

charon72 said:
Shift would simply be to big for my tastes. need something that can fit in my pocket easily due to my job. and the battery life discourages me also.
so today i went in with both legs and bought a brand spanking new athena.
i had won one on an auction, but after winning i got email from the seller saying sorry but it has broken and he has to cancel auction. ( still thinks he was pissed not getting the doe he was expecting )
so now i have gotten it today. have hardSpl'd it and flashed the pk3 rom. and i have that warm feeling inside again
i have to say that with mobipocket installed it is just perfect for reading, and when it comes to navigation, i have the full tomtom6 and so far no problems with the gps reception. and if the problem should arise i have my tomtom bluetooth antenna to be fired up in case..
so for now i will enjoy my new toy and hope it will last me a good while (wife will go mad if i want a new one for at least the next year ...)
what i have seen so far has been all good, hope it lasts
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I congratulate you for making this wise decision. SHIFT is TWICE the area of Athena and three times the weight. It also is quite useless on the road because it has completely unacceptable battery life. Even if it has GPS, proper camera, MP3 player on the WM side, and voice call, it's not going to be worthwhile. Even if you don't mind lugging this phone along, you can't really use it worry free because anytime it's going to run out of power. Do you want Vista that badly? That's the real question. Even if you really really need portable VISTA, it is wiser to have ASUS eee PC, with an Athena.
In my mind there are two types of portability. The "body portability" and the "briefcase/backpack portabiliity". In first type of portability allows you to either put the device in your normal size pocket or a normal size belt pouch. The second category allows you to bring it along for holiday and travel, but you would not really need it to be carried on your body. Phone/GPS/MP3/Internet Browser/Camera/Radio should be converged into one device of "body portability". More serious work related and very infrequently used device such as VISTA could accept a "briefcase portabilty" as those applications typically requires much bigger screen and keyboard. These two types of device should not converge.
The real issue with SHIFT is not weather it can have phone, full WM6. It is the weight, size and battery life. Athena is the one to go for.

eaglesteve said:
I congratulate you for making this wise decision. SHIFT is TWICE the area of Athena and three times the weight. It also is quite useless on the road because it has completely unacceptable battery life. Even if it has GPS, proper camera, MP3 player on the WM side, and voice call, it's not going to be worthwhile. Even if you don't mind lugging this phone along, you can't really use it worry free because anytime it's going to run out of power. Do you want Vista that badly? That's the real question. Even if you really really need portable VISTA, it is wiser to have ASUS eee PC, with an Athena.
In my mind there are two types of portability. The "body portability" and the "briefcase/backpack portabiliity". In first type of portability allows you to either put the device in your normal size pocket or a normal size belt pouch. The second category allows you to bring it along for holiday and travel, but you would not really need it to be carried on your body. Phone/GPS/MP3/Internet Browser/Camera/Radio should be converged into one device of "body portability". More serious work related and very infrequently used device such as VISTA could accept a "briefcase portabilty" as those applications typically requires much bigger screen and keyboard. These two types of device should not converge.
The real issue with SHIFT is not weather it can have phone, full WM6. It is the weight, size and battery life. Athena is the one to go for.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HERE HERE.
Very well put Eaglesteve.
I have, and will always have issues with the size of the Athena - as a phone I struggle to get along with it, and continually go back to my Hermes. The past few days with the Touch Dual ROM however I have warmed to it and think if you don't mind vociferous phone conversations or connecting bluetooth earphones it's actually a very good bit of kit.
I never use the keyboard as it adds bulk and isn't as nice to use as Fingertouch, I would LOVE a Linux hack but don't see one happening soon and I think web browsing is not as smooth and reliable as it should be, but you can't have everything I suppose.
If you enjoyed your Universal then I have no doubt you will be a happy member of the Athena club, and the Shift?!?! I wouldn't touch it with someone else's bargepole owing to 3 critical - and no doubt predictable - factors:
1 - It's too small to be a laptop replacement; too big to be a cellphone replacement.
2 - Owing to its expense and niche market, development will be VERY restricted.
3 - battery life is grimly short.
As previously stated, buy an EEE if you want a bit extra to go with your Athena - the cost of this AND the Athena is less than a Shift alone, with twice the battery juice.

leoni1980 said:
HERE HERE.
Very well put Eaglesteve.
I have, and will always have issues with the size of the Athena - as a phone I struggle to get along with it, and continually go back to my Hermes. The past few days with the Touch Dual ROM however I have warmed to it and think if you don't mind vociferous phone conversations or connecting bluetooth earphones it's actually a very good bit of kit.
I never use the keyboard as it adds bulk and isn't as nice to use as Fingertouch, I would LOVE a Linux hack but don't see one happening soon and I think web browsing is not as smooth and reliable as it should be, but you can't have everything I suppose.
If you enjoyed your Universal then I have no doubt you will be a happy member of the Athena club, and the Shift?!?! I wouldn't touch it with someone else's bargepole owing to 3 critical - and no doubt predictable - factors:
1 - It's too small to be a laptop replacement; too big to be a cellphone replacement.
2 - Owing to its expense and niche market, development will be VERY restricted.
3 - battery life is grimly short.
As previously stated, buy an EEE if you want a bit extra to go with your Athena - the cost of this AND the Athena is less than a Shift alone, with twice the battery juice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Whether or not you find Athena's size to be a problem depends on how to use it. For me, I completely dislike the hardware keyboard. It's no where near as fast and accurate as Tengo software keyboard, so I don't have the burden of carrying it and the leather case.
Next, if you try carrying it with the pockets of your shirt or trousers, you will find it too bulky and heavy. The right way to carry this is to use a proper belt pouch. I have a self made one. I carry my Athena 24/7, even at home. The only time it comes off my body is when I shower and sleep. In my belt pouch I am completely unaware of its presence. I will not be able to do the same with SHIFT.

hardware keyboard is interesting but daft, unresponsive and a burden when it comes to answering calls. the universal's design is better in a sense (and it doesn't wipe hard drives), although once the keyboard is removed the Athena feels a lot nicer.
i have never used Tengo. is it better than fingertouch?

leoni1980 said:
hardware keyboard is interesting but daft, unresponsive and a burden when it comes to answering calls. the universal's design is better in a sense (and it doesn't wipe hard drives), although once the keyboard is removed the Athena feels a lot nicer.
i have never used Tengo. is it better than fingertouch?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
much much better
many more options

leoni1980 said:
hardware keyboard is interesting but daft, unresponsive and a burden when it comes to answering calls. the universal's design is better in a sense (and it doesn't wipe hard drives), although once the keyboard is removed the Athena feels a lot nicer.
i have never used Tengo. is it better than fingertouch?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
much much much much better. bigger hitting area, more accuracy, takes up less real estate, more comprehensive and complete in functionality than Finger Touch . I've posted a comparision somewhere under the thread called "Finger touch, much better than tengo".

To add to the idea of using an Athena along with an Asus, you don't even have to link them with USB for the Asus to get network access. Get the (beta) wmWifiRouter and your Athena turns into a portable wifi hotspot. Then your Asus, and anyone else travelling with you with a laptop, gets internet on the go.

techntrek said:
To add to the idea of using an Athena along with an Asus, you don't even have to link them with USB for the Asus to get network access. Get the (beta) wmWifiRouter and your Athena turns into a portable wifi hotspot. Then your Asus, and anyone else travelling with you with a laptop, gets internet on the go.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hey, thats what i do, and it works a treat. for anyone who cant be bothered to search ive attached it. just go to start, settings, connections, wifi, add new. give the new connection whatever name you like and make sure you tick 'ad hoc'. then just run wmwifirouter. simple.

And because of this program there is less of a need to hack the ee to add internal bluetooth like some have lately. I cant think of any reason, actually.

Wow, i am really amazed to how this thread has boomed since last night
My main reason for never even considering the shift is size and battery life.
and every night when i go work i bring my laptop anyway.
The job i do is nightguard for a mentally handicapped man in his thirties. this involves long hours sitting in a chair watching him doing weird stuff and sleeping on the couch. so i need a device to keep me company in the chair
and it has to be something i can flick shut at seconds notice in case he gets a seizure (bad spelling i know) or freaks out. and for theese reasons SHift would be very impractical.
i like the look of shift and would like to have it just for playing around with it, but i also know i would tire of it really fast, so i dont see a reason to waste my money on a shiny new toy i wont use(have plenty of those)
The athena is now 2 days old and bringing it to work now for the third night and so far it has fulfilled all my expectations and even more.
combined with mobipocket it is absolutely fabulous to read on, and i am even considering leaving the laptop at home
So far i am very happy to have made the transition from the universal.
And on a side note...
Now my mom can discard her old Moto A1000 cause i am giving her the universal instead

leoni1980 said:
I would LOVE a Linux hack but don't see one happening soon
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What is a 'Linux hack' ?

eaglesteve said:
I carry my Athena 24/7, even at home. The only time it comes off my body is when I shower and sleep. In my belt pouch I am completely unaware of its presence. I will not be able to do the same with SHIFT.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you wear it when you have sex?

spacecat said:
Do you wear it when you have sex?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought everyone has sex with his Athena. No?

HTC Shift will be out in Spain by mid-Feb or early March

Yesterday (30 rd) Paul Ghent from HTC Europe run a conference in Madrid at the Movistar's MovilForum and by the end of the presentation I asked him directly if the HTC Shift could be used to answer a phone call.
Answer... NO WAY.
Due to the size of the Shift they consider not useful the voice over GSM. Anyway the model that will be available in Spain (mid-Feb) will have GSM/GPRS/UMTS/HSDPA for data. So you need to insert a SIM card on it. But NO VOICE.
They mention that the Shift will be delivered in a special price by Movistar... I assume SIM-locked.
Has no GPS and comes with Vista. The information about Shift running WM5 (or WM6) is not true. Maybe the problem is the stand-by mode the Shift has called SnapVUE which is very similar to the Today screens used by HTC in the Touch series PDAs... but is not WM5 as far as HTC said in the Madrid's meeting.
More info... in spanish I must say at www.todoumpc.com
A video with Paul Ghent speech in english will be uploaded in a few days at www.todoumpc.com including my question about the voice capabilities.

wrong choices by HTC
mahjong said:
Yesterday (30 rd) Paul Ghent from HTC Europe run a conference in Madrid at the Movistar's MovilForum and by the end of the presentation I asked him directly if the HTC Shift could be used to answer a phone call.
Answer... NO WAY.
Due to the size of the Shift they consider not useful the voice over GSM. Anyway the model that will be available in Spain (mid-Feb) will have GSM/GPRS/UMTS/HSDPA for data. So you need to insert a SIM card on it. But NO VOICE.
They mention that the Shift will be delivered in a special price by Movistar... I assume SIM-locked.
Has no GPS and comes with Vista. The information about Shift running WM5 (or WM6) is not true. Maybe the problem is the stand-by mode the Shift has called SnapVUE which is very similar to the Today screens used by HTC in the Touch series PDAs... but is not WM5 as far as HTC said in the Madrid's meeting.
More info... in spanish I must say at www.todoumpc.com
A video with Paul Ghent speech in english will be uploaded in a few days at www.todoumpc.com including my question about the voice capabilities.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well .. well .. first .. SnapVue IS running upon WM6.. and the prototypes show how it was possible to install a cab received by mail.
They are so wrong ... with a good headset ... phone capability would have been perfect .. grrrrr. They should have never tried to find reason why phone ability would have been wrong ... ! Someone is using a phone ONLY for SMS and never get of make call ? I don't believe there are more than 1% doing this ....
And no GPS? On the website it is specified as a Stand-Alone GPS... what's wrong with their own information?
....... let's hope we will find a workaround for the voice.. the ALL IN ONE device .. should have been the shift !
Why are they not thinking the right way.... the shift could have been a 3 features device... 3 times better that any other device :
- phone/gsm
- pda/pocket pc
- laptop/desktop
.... all these 3 features for about 1200$ ... beside this the iPhone is just a 600$ remote control ......

Koala is right.
I guess we will just have to wait untill it comes out and see what "the guys" can do about the rom
I´m pretty convinced by now that the shift won´t have anything we like so much about it out of the box...
I´ll have to wait and see. (and, damn it´s hard!)
greetz,
Pfeffa-rah

Pfeffa-rah said:
Koala is right.
I guess we will just have to wait untill it comes out and see what "the guys" can do about the rom
I´m pretty convinced by now that the shift won´t have anything we like so much about it out of the box...
I´ll have to wait and see. (and, damn it´s hard!)
greetz,
Pfeffa-rah
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sure it is :/...it's been more than a year that I'm waiting for the shift... and I spent EVERY DAY .. trying to find "news" on it ... grrr... I want to try it again .. guess how it was when I had those 2 shifts just in front of me... playing with one ... it was... SO TERRIBLE !!! nobody can know this feeling before having the time to test one !

koala996 said:
Well .. well .. first .. SnapVue IS running upon WM6.. and the prototypes show how it was possible to install a cab received by mail.
They are so wrong ... with a good headset ... phone capability would have been perfect .. grrrrr. They should have never tried to find reason why phone ability would have been wrong ... ! Someone is using a phone ONLY for SMS and never get of make call ? I don't believe there are more than 1% doing this ....
And no GPS? On the website it is specified as a Stand-Alone GPS... what's wrong with their own information?
....... let's hope we will find a workaround for the voice.. the ALL IN ONE device .. should have been the shift !
Why are they not thinking the right way.... the shift could have been a 3 features device... 3 times better that any other device :
- phone/gsm
- pda/pocket pc
- laptop/desktop
.... all these 3 features for about 1200$ ... beside this the iPhone is just a 600$ remote control ......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you crazy?? The shift has no bearing on the iphone and to compare them is ludicrous. To use the shift as a phone would be fine as a novelty but impractical for the long haul owing to its huge size and very limited battery life. I'm sure the developers will come up with a way of getting voice to work, but if anyone would seriously consider using the shift as their main handset then they clearly either don't leave the house much or don't get many calls.there are many cheap, sim-only data tarifs available which people use with hsdpa umpcs and notebooks and no-one ever complains that these devices cannot receive calls. People's expectations of this device are confused. This is htc's first foray into the full windows umpc market and THAT is what the shift is - a umpc. It was never meant to be anything other than a umpc and is perhaps only presumed so because of the proprietary snapvue application and because htc are known for their pocket pc phones. The fact that some misleading facts were touted initially did not help htc's cause either. Buying a shift will not be the bargain you make out, since you will still need a second handset to get by unless you have a constant connection to the national grid and always have a bag on you.

Men... I'm telling what Paul Ghent from HTC Europe told... I assumed was the truth. If I and all the attendents were cheated... should I sorry? don't think so. That is what I was told.

mahjong said:
Men... I'm telling what Paul Ghent from HTC Europe told... I assumed was the truth. If I and all the attendents were cheated... should I sorry? don't think so. That is what I was told.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm really not sure about "no WM6" .. I think that they mean "no FULL WM6" .. but they prefered telling "no WM6" because it's not the WM6 people used to know
I haven't told anything against you, but just wanted to explain things.
about GPS.. it's totally unclear .. because they said "GPS" and now they say "NO GPS".. so it's hard to know the real true about it.
when they say "NO" something ... they mean "there won't be this by default" .. but that doesn't mean that this is not possible to have it . If they have 3G+ .. they will have phone built-in .. but the things is that it should have voice... and voice should be built-in, but disabled by HTC.

leoni1980 said:
Are you crazy?? The shift has no bearing on the iphone and to compare them is ludicrous. To use the shift as a phone would be fine as a novelty but impractical for the long haul owing to its huge size and very limited battery life. I'm sure the developers will come up with a way of getting voice to work, but if anyone would seriously consider using the shift as their main handset then they clearly either don't leave the house much or don't get many calls.there are many cheap, sim-only data tarifs available which people use with hsdpa umpcs and notebooks and no-one ever complains that these devices cannot receive calls. People's expectations of this device are confused. This is htc's first foray into the full windows umpc market and THAT is what the shift is - a umpc. It was never meant to be anything other than a umpc and is perhaps only presumed so because of the proprietary snapvue application and because htc are known for their pocket pc phones. The fact that some misleading facts were touted initially did not help htc's cause either. Buying a shift will not be the bargain you make out, since you will still need a second handset to get by unless you have a constant connection to the national grid and always have a bag on you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are like many people thinking that the shift have to be against ears to phone ? You are wrong... with PDA and the Shift you can just use a headset... and keep the Shift in your pocket .. so no matter about the size ! And about battery life you are wrong ... when you shut down Vista you still have SnapVue (WM6) and if you can get a call it will be through WM6.. so it won't be 2hours but about 10 days (see the HTC site for that). It is enough time awake for a phone.
The shift is small enough to put in a "good" pocket ... and yes I will have it all the time with me .. and you DON'T need to have a bag on you all the time.
We are not complaining about HTC, but we are just saying "the shift has 3G+ .. so it is not interesting REMOVING features that are already supported". There is no confused idea about the shift being able to be a phone, the only thing that is confused is "GPS" ... on the site of HTC it is written "Standalone GPS" ... and everywhere now HTC tell that the Shift has NO GPS inside. That's why this feature is confused.
And for the handset ... plz ... stop thinking that we will bring the Shift to our ears ... you don't know anything about headset ?

leoni1980 said:
Are you crazy?? The shift has no bearing on the iphone and to compare them is ludicrous.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
there is no comparison between a 600$ iPhone that is not doing anything right (it's not a phone, it's not a pda... it's nothing :/) and the Shift .... that is an UMPC with 3G (oh the iPhone doesn't have 3G ... what a shame !)
what I meant was just : "for 1200$ you have something really good" .. and "for 600$ you have nothing good"
it's just a point of view....

yes i've heard of headsets, i had an athena! But with the best will in the world you still have to carry the weight of the device somewhere. Irrespective of whether you have clown's pockets. Anyone who is willing to use a 1200 dollar umpc as a phone at all times strikes me as the type who doesn't get much sex, nor wear appropriate formal attire. The shift is supposedly a business device. Businessmen wear suits. Show me a suit whose pockets will comfortably accommodate a shift and i'll show you ten geeks desperately clamouring for convergence at the expense of convenience.

leoni1980 said:
yes i've heard of headsets, i had an athena! But with the best will in the world you still have to carry the weight of the device somewhere. Irrespective of whether you have clown's pockets. Anyone who is willing to use a 1200 dollar umpc as a phone at all times strikes me as the type who doesn't get much sex, nor wear appropriate formal attire. The shift is supposedly a business device. Businessmen wear suits. Show me a suit whose pockets will comfortably accommodate a shift and i'll show you ten geeks desperately clamouring for convergence at the expense of convenience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't find the exact model .. but it is a Quechua suit.. and here is a link of another suit looking like mine :
http://www.decathlon.be/FR/images/assets/asset_9110492.jpg
You can notice that the two pockets in front are really big ... I used to put so many things in my pocket... I can say that the shift will easily enter the pocket and stay quite there

leoni1980 said:
i'll show you ten geeks desperately clamouring for convergence at the expense of convenience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Heh, that I want to see (or maybe I don't?) <grin> Nice turn of a phrase, Leoni!

leoni1980 said:
yes i've heard of headsets, i had an athena! But with the best will in the world you still have to carry the weight of the device somewhere. Irrespective of whether you have clown's pockets. Anyone who is willing to use a 1200 dollar umpc as a phone at all times strikes me as the type who doesn't get much sex, nor wear appropriate formal attire. The shift is supposedly a business device. Businessmen wear suits. Show me a suit whose pockets will comfortably accommodate a shift and i'll show you ten geeks desperately clamouring for convergence at the expense of convenience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i have to agree. its strange enough having a athena in my pocket. the best solution for shift is in ur backpack, or briefcase and have the style-i for calls if u really want to do that. i have my hermes still for those times i wear a suit and dont have a pocket for my athena.
the shift i dont think would fit in too many of my jeans or pants. the athena is hard enough as is. luckly its almost as thin as a razr since i dont use the keyboard at all so i manange pretty well with it. i just use speaker or bt.
lol love the last sentence. i dont think theres too many suits that fit the athena eather

Gentlemen, please excuse me for coming into the discussion on this old topic:
I got to disagree that there are'nt many suits that can fit Athena. I don't even need a suit. A normal pocket is what I do often. See how Athena is so portable for me in this picture.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=361112
I also think it is stretching it to the limit by comparing Athena with Shift in terms of portability. Fact is, Athena's volume is 30.9% of shift's and Athena's weight is 43.75% that of SHIFT's.
To carry a shift is like having THREE Athena in your pocket. There is no way I can carry a shift in my pocket like what I'm doing in the above photos.
But I agree with Leoni that this is not a practical size to have a phone built in. It is travel friendly, but not 'body portable'. A phone must be 'body portable', not just easy to carry around in a bag and to leave in the hotel room. You would want to carry it to the toilet, to lunch, to have a walk, to cycle... I am doing that with Athena now. 24/7 it never leaves my body, and I don't feel any weight or inconveniece for doing it. That's why Athena's size is the most ideal as a MOBILE convergent device, and SHIFT can never take that role, due to its extreme size for mobility. Batttery life, and instant on capabiltiy are the other factors. I don't quite buy the argument that as long as we stay in the snapvue environment we can have 10 days battery life, so it's not an issue. The thing is, why bother lugging this hugh thing around if you're not going to use the full IS? Just to see the weather, check the address book, and update the appointment? If that's the case, this is a poor choice. Surely you want to use the Vista. The only problem is, once you use it for one hour, you have very little left for GPS, Phone, Camera, MP3, and the other things (assume that HTC is silly enough to include these into SHIFT).
UMPC is a difficult product to define, and HTC is obviously having problems here. Make the screen too small, people who expects full OS will be disappointed. Make it too big, you don't have the option of having a practical phone.
For me, it makes more sense to have an Athena, and whenever I need Vista, just use remote desktop to operate your office/home computer. Athena can not do everything one might want to do on a full Vista desktop, but neither can SHIFT. I know because I have had lots of previous expereince using very tiny subnotebooks running full desktop OS.
Just my 2 cents worth.

eaglesteve said:
Gentlemen, please excuse me for coming into the discussion on this old topic:
I got to disagree that there are'nt many suits that can fit Athena. I don't even need a suit. A normal pocket is what I do often. See how Athena is so portable for me in this picture.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=361112
I also think it is stretching it to the limit by comparing Athena with Shift in terms of portability. Fact is, Athena's volume is 30.9% of shift's and Athena's weight is 43.75% that of SHIFT's.
To carry a shift is like having THREE Athena in your pocket. There is no way I can carry a shift in my pocket like what I'm doing in the above photos.
But I agree with Leoni that this is not a practical size to have a phone built in. It is travel friendly, but not 'body portable'. A phone must be 'body portable', not just easy to carry around in a bag and to leave in the hotel room. You would want to carry it to the toilet, to lunch, to have a walk, to cycle... I am doing that with Athena now. 24/7 it never leaves my body, and I don't feel any weight or inconveniece for doing it. That's why Athena's size is the most ideal as a MOBILE convergent device, and SHIFT can never take that role, due to its extreme size for mobility. Batttery life, and instant on capabiltiy are the other factors. I don't quite buy the argument that as long as we stay in the snapvue environment we can have 10 days battery life, so it's not an issue. The thing is, why bother lugging this hugh thing around if you're not going to use the full IS? Just to see the weather, check the address book, and update the appointment? If that's the case, this is a poor choice. Surely you want to use the Vista. The only problem is, once you use it for one hour, you have very little left for GPS, Phone, Camera, MP3, and the other things (assume that HTC is silly enough to include these into SHIFT).
UMPC is a difficult product to define, and HTC is obviously having problems here. Make the screen too small, people who expects full OS will be disappointed. Make it too big, you don't have the option of having a practical phone.
For me, it makes more sense to have an Athena, and whenever I need Vista, just use remote desktop to operate your office/home computer. Athena can not do everything one might want to do on a full Vista desktop, but neither can SHIFT. I know because I have had lots of previous expereince using very tiny subnotebooks running full desktop OS.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it's a good point of view, but maybe I can explain with a scenario how I will use the HTC SHIFT.
1°) during the night .. the shift is in full WM6 mode (I don't care about SnapVue I know it will be uninstall as soon as I will have the shift) .. in this mode .. nothing will be done (just sleeping)
2°) when waking up .. I can start Windows Vista when dressing up and use it (with WIFI) while taking my breakfast
3°) I can put the shift in sleep mode (not hibernate) if I'm going to move somewhere and put the Shift in my coat (no bag needed)
4°) When being where I wanted to go.. I just have to look for power and put the shift back from sleep ... in that way I will be able to use the shift EVERYWHERE....
5°) Same as 3°) when going back home
6°) I can use it in the same way the shift was when leaving it to sleep mode .. and go on working on the same thing without worrying about finding another computer, using SVN, sending me mails with what I'm working .. etc...
7°) When going to bed, I shut down (not hibernate) or hibernate (if I'm really busy) and stay in SnapVue mode.
I haven't talk about GPS, Camera, Phone .. etc ... those features will just be extras ... and these extras can be seen like that :
"i don't want to put a SIM CARD in the Shift if I don't have phone ability ... why have a sim card if you can't get calls ?"
"i don't want GPS if it is on vista ... but I do want GPS if it is in WM6 because of using it when travelling"
"i don't need a camera if the Shift has no phone built-in, because I will have my HTC TOUCH with 2MP Camera (better than the 1.3MP of the Shift webcam) and I use it as my phone"
So ... maybe we will be able to put Phone and GPS to a FULL WM6 working SHIFT.. but it will just be EXTRAS.
I'm not worrying about travelling with the shift in my coat (I know the size of the shift and I know that my pockets are easily bigger than the shift). The weight of the shift is not so bad .. compare to laptops !
And about the resolution and the screen size ... I have use the shift in 800*480 or 1024*600 (haven't look the resolution used) and the 7" screen is enough to use .. I was really impressed when using it ! But when I will be at home I will plug the Shift to VGA monitor and use the best resolution possible (don't know but maybe better than 1024*600 on an external monitor).
You can say what you want, but the scenario I have writen is NOT possible with Athena and with the Touch .. because simply.. having Windows Vista on really portable computer ... is only for UMPC... and the only UMPC running two O.S. at the same time is the SHIFT... that's why the shift for me is :
The BEST laptop for mobility
The BEST desktop for mobility
The BEST device for productivity (everywhere you go you can work)
The BEST innovation (2 O.S. at the SAME time)
.. here's my feelings

koala996 said:
it's a good point of view, but maybe I can explain with a scenario how I will use the HTC SHIFT.
1°) during the night .. the shift is in full WM6 mode (I don't care about SnapVue I know it will be uninstall as soon as I will have the shift) .. in this mode .. nothing will be done (just sleeping)
2°) when waking up .. I can start Windows Vista when dressing up and use it (with WIFI) while taking my breakfast
3°) I can put the shift in sleep mode (not hibernate) if I'm going to move somewhere and put the Shift in my coat (no bag needed)
4°) When being where I wanted to go.. I just have to look for power and put the shift back from sleep ... in that way I will be able to use the shift EVERYWHERE....
5°) Same as 3°) when going back home
6°) I can use it in the same way the shift was when leaving it to sleep mode .. and go on working on the same thing without worrying about finding another computer, using SVN, sending me mails with what I'm working .. etc...
7°) When going to bed, I shut down (not hibernate) or hibernate (if I'm really busy) and stay in SnapVue mode.
I haven't talk about GPS, Camera, Phone .. etc ... those features will just be extras ... and these extras can be seen like that :
"i don't want to put a SIM CARD in the Shift if I don't have phone ability ... why have a sim card if you can't get calls ?"
"i don't want GPS if it is on vista ... but I do want GPS if it is in WM6 because of using it when travelling"
"i don't need a camera if the Shift has no phone built-in, because I will have my HTC TOUCH with 2MP Camera (better than the 1.3MP of the Shift webcam) and I use it as my phone"
So ... maybe we will be able to put Phone and GPS to a FULL WM6 working SHIFT.. but it will just be EXTRAS.
I'm not worrying about travelling with the shift in my coat (I know the size of the shift and I know that my pockets are easily bigger than the shift). The weight of the shift is not so bad .. compare to laptops !
And about the resolution and the screen size ... I have use the shift in 800*480 or 1024*600 (haven't look the resolution used) and the 7" screen is enough to use .. I was really impressed when using it ! But when I will be at home I will plug the Shift to VGA monitor and use the best resolution possible (don't know but maybe better than 1024*600 on an external monitor).
You can say what you want, but the scenario I have writen is NOT possible with Athena and with the Touch .. because simply.. having Windows Vista on really portable computer ... is only for UMPC... and the only UMPC running two O.S. at the same time is the SHIFT... that's why the shift for me is :
The BEST laptop for mobility
The BEST desktop for mobility
The BEST device for productivity (everywhere you go you can work)
The BEST innovation (2 O.S. at the SAME time)
.. here's my feelings
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Koala,
HTC would be extremely pleased to see customers like yourself who have such a deep passion for SHIFT. carrying such a big devices all the time with all the associated chargers, always on the lookout for power point.... I personally would like to hear a post review from you after say half a year of use, if it would last that long.
Cheers.

eaglesteve said:
Hi Koala,
HTC would be extremely pleased to see customers like yourself who have such a deep passion for SHIFT. carrying such a big devices all the time with all the associated chargers, always on the lookout for power point.... I personally would like to hear a post review from you after say half a year of use, if it would last that long.
Cheers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello steve,
I have already had the Shift in my hands, so I know about the weight and I haven't found that it would be a matter .. but when I will have it , I will have better idea about having it all day long on me. There is only one charger needed and I suppose that it is not too big to put in a pocket.. on the pic I have, it is a simple cable .. nothing big (it's like having a phone charger).
I will put a review here as soon as I will have it.. but it won't be that soon .. because it will be for my job as researcher the next year (September 2008).
Koala

As a matter of fact when I asked Paul Ghent (HTC Europe) about answering phone calls in the Shift I show him my athena in my jacket and he said: "Should be a high quality jacket if you what to keep this (taking the shift in his hand) like that". That is true... Shift is to big to carry with it without any bag or something.
The biggest UMPC I can handle is OQO 2 which is half a centimeter bigger than the Athena.

Shift hardware Design Drawings

Where would one start to try and get the "motherboard and system" technical design documentation ?
Surely, if there's no physical connection between WinMo architecture, and the SD card . bluetooth module / wifi radio , we are screwed
I want to check out Mobo design and especially the way this dual-architecture is built.
FCC did not help.

Do a search on this forum. There are pictures available of the Shift printed circuit boards. They might help you with your investigation. Good luck!

Excuses
First time I don't use the search button I get caught redhanded
Wouldn't even have imagined that it's already here. WIll search right now.
I must say that after three days with my device, I now know why I screamed "I want one" when I first saw it.
It's the WinMo part in the UMPC that makes this device a killer. No need for vista at times, but still online and kickin'.

lucid said:
First time I don't use the search button I get caught redhanded
Wouldn't even have imagined that it's already here. WIll search right now.
I must say that after three days with my device, I now know why I screamed "I want one" when I first saw it.
It's the WinMo part in the UMPC that makes this device a killer. No need for vista at times, but still online and kickin'.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I think the same. UMPC side is a good one but there are better devices with better CPU, screen, battery....But WM side makes me reduce the time using Vista at 50% and still Real time mail. And Opera mini 4.0 makes unnecessary use a Vista Internet Explorer in most cases....

danielherrero said:
Yes, I think the same. UMPC side is a good one but there are better devices with better CPU, screen, battery....But WM side makes me reduce the time using Vista at 50% and still Real time mail. And Opera mini 4.0 makes unnecessary use a Vista Internet Explorer in most cases....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yep and when u need vista its always under reach. seems like a real nice laptop replacment. the wm side should becoming even more interesting soon.

Pawel062 said:
yep and when u need vista its always under reach. seems like a real nice laptop replacment. the wm side should becoming even more interesting soon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
with the VGA port.. I think that it is also a good desktop replacement .. (maybe not the primary desktop.. that "should" be better in performances)
you can put it on a LCD, you can put bluetooth keyboard and mouse, etc....
I think that the shift will be sufficient for me 24h/24... no matter where am I.. and the fastest computer (released yet) will never be enough fast to make me change my mind about it .. because you fell so "FREE" to have a so small device that can do everything you want !
It needs GPS and PHONE and it will replace my Touch .. really really really nice device ! I think when we will have finished with it .. it will be THE PERFECT DEVICE (except for the slow CPU)

koala996 said:
with the VGA port.. I think that it is also a good desktop replacement .. (maybe not the primary desktop.. that "should" be better in performances)
you can put it on a LCD, you can put bluetooth keyboard and mouse, etc....
I think that the shift will be sufficient for me 24h/24... no matter where am I.. and the fastest computer (released yet) will never be enough fast to make me change my mind about it .. because you fell so "FREE" to have a so small device that can do everything you want !
It needs GPS and PHONE and it will replace my Touch .. really really really nice device ! I think when we will have finished with it .. it will be THE PERFECT DEVICE (except for the slow CPU)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yep thats the point. htc might of not made it perfect on the day of release but that would be no fun for me and the developers. they come in here and know what we do so they made sure to give us some work to do when it came out.

Athena - End of Life?

I just looked at the HTC website, discovered the new widescreen touch phones, and was taken aback, that the Athena is no longer listed with the HTC products.
So is this the end of the Athena?
R, Michael

Links? When I go to htc.com I don't see the Athena under current "Products", but that's been true for a while. I do see it listed under "Support". I also don't see any new widescreen phones anywhere...

techntrek said:
Links? When I go to htc.com I don't see the Athena under current "Products", but that's been true for a while. I do see it listed under "Support". I also don't see any new widescreen phones anywhere...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am not a regular with the HTC website, so forgive me, if didn't find out earlier, that HTC dropped the Athena line altogether. And I haven't seen it mentioned on this forum as well.
"New" widescreen phones means (for the same reason) "new to ME", but probably "water under the bridge" for the better informed.

No, you misread, I wasn't jumping on you. I'm curious what widescreen phones you are talking about and wanted a link to see. The thread that appeared here about the Athena getting dropped from HTC's product line didn't get much activity so it dropped off the front page quickly, so you could have easily missed it.

i looked on the htc Europe page and there they still have the athena

The HTC web site (worldwide) lists two widescreen devices:
Touch HD
MAX 4G
but no X7500/X7501/X7510.
European and german web sites list the Touch HD as the only widescreen device, but still list the X7510.
North-american site lists no widescreen device at all and no more Advantages.
R, Michael

The thing that surprises me is that this niche seems to be emptying. There are the smaller devices with touch interface (iPhone and knock-offs) that are booming, and then the netbooks are booming. But nothing in between. I'm not sure what my next move will be. I've had my x7500 for over 18 months, which is an eternity. But I can't convince myself that there is anything new that I would be happier with. What I really want is a faster, sleeker, lighter x7500 with a 60GB solid state drive. Wouldn't other people want that??

I've had mine 15 months and plan on using it for several more years. Definitely nothing on the market right now that is an obvious replacement for the Athena and I don't think there will be for a while.
I'd love an Athena with a SSD, and a 16:9 aspect ratio screen instead of the 4:3 we have now. It would make it a bit longer but a bit narrower (top to bottom), more like a traditional "candybar" phone. Would give more total screen space but would make it easier to hold like a phone. Obviously that would also require adding a private earpiece. Throw in a vibrate ringer and I'd be there.

wgary said:
The thing that surprises me is that this niche seems to be emptying. There are the smaller devices with touch interface (iPhone and knock-offs) that are booming, and then the netbooks are booming. But nothing in between. I'm not sure what my next move will be. I've had my x7500 for over 18 months, which is an eternity. But I can't convince myself that there is anything new that I would be happier with. What I really want is a faster, sleeker, lighter x7500 with a 60GB solid state drive. Wouldn't other people want that??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude you hit it right on the nail. Or atleast something with an upgradeable memory along with Micro SDHC slot built in, and onboard USB host (no attachments).

hmm
the athena is dieing no one cooks roms for it last was ap5 i think , i love my x7501 ,but the kaiser has more cooks i havent flashed sence ap4 release and i know some one could cook up something better,can a kaiser rom run on a x7501?

Dude where u been?
hey flexedrubi
Mitchy Prima has released many ROMS far above the calibre of the AP ROMS.
I am sure the last one was less than a month ago....
I dont know how u missed it....It is WIZ BANG PA_TANG! (very good)
So go flash it.......
We are indeed a small crowd with our devices and I dont know if anything will come along, I think we are a single generation which were before our time.
In the future we will have XP....sorry VISTA (hssss) or even windows 7 machines - (which are pushing touch screen tech further than Win mobile) the same size and with the same capacity/functionality as our Advantages.
Asus EE pc's come with Sim Card slots now and all you need to use them as phones.
The HTC advantage with the stock Mobile 5 ROM was a pretty awfull device to use as a primary phone we were pioneers with patience lol
Mitchys ROMS have elevated it to heights but its still not really ready to compete with other OS's in terms of simple phone, music, and camera usage
I have been using a combo of N95 8GB (for music, camera and calls) and an x7500 for data for a while now. There is nothing I can see that can beat this combo....
The X7500 is the ONLY PPC in my opinion that I can use for work
Wifi to connect to office (or VPN)
USB host for keyboard and mouse
VGA out for monitor
RDP for TS to access everything I need
I have never used or seen another PPC that could take its place!
I just bought a Sumsung Omnia, I flashed up to newest decent custom firmware (far better than Tmobile stock ROM which was quite bad!) and I loaded up loads of tunes and movies etc, put all my usefull apps on it and expected it to take over from my old combo...
Impossible!
It just cant do it!
I think that Windows 7 (not mobile) or what ever its being called is being designed to plug in to all hardware....

yarod - so what about the Omnia didn't make it good enough to take over from your current combo?

Athena lives?
Just got this from an rss. Looks like Athena lives! Look at this article http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=2357 and you'll see the "Athena 2" apparently code named "Thoth."
Woo hoo!

Wow!
This is indeed good news!

mfschneider said:
This is indeed good news!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope they come out with a T mobile USA 3G version. If not i'm running to AT&T end of my contract before I purchase this handy looking Thoth.

Very good to see that they are continuing development with the Athena line, but it doesn't look much different than the 7510. Still lacks the buttons they took away with the 7510, so right there its a no-go for me.

This is good news
CHECK OUT THIS LINK ALSO
http://www.neowin.net/news/main/09/01/12/htcs-full-2009-line-up-leaked

techntrek said:
yarod - so what about the Omnia didn't make it good enough to take over from your current combo?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Techntrek
- The omnia was great......BUT comparing to my N95 8GB.........and the Ameo as combo.....
Main things that annoyed me........
unable to use headphones and charge at same time with out of box solution
Also no 3.5 jack without the adapter
FM radio didnt list radio station name ....RDS or something?
Battery (even with newest ROM) doesnt last as long as Nokia (screen is much bigger so maybe that is whats causing it....)
GPS doesnt work as well I only got a FIX Once with my Omnia.......Ameo seems to fix much more reliably as does N95.
Screen is too small to use Remote desktop properly after using ameo - interestingly in this case the only remote app I have for Nokia is logmein which is rubbish
No USB host and I dont want to waste money on Bluetooth combo (top dollar) as I just got a MX3200 set.
The phone application is not as reliable at all.....same with all windows mobile devices, the dialler and phone app on the N95 is integrated into the OS in a much more pleasent fashion - no hangs no issues even if I am running Multiple Applications (web, MMS, video, FM radio etc) the phone app kicks in and out faster and more efficiently with never a crash....
There was no in line remote solution (next/last track, volume, change radio station....
But the omnia could record FM radio!! That was kick ass!

Interesting. Well, here's to many more useful years with our Athenas!

techntrek said:
Very good to see that they are continuing development with the Athena line, but it doesn't look much different than the 7510. Still lacks the buttons they took away with the 7510, so right there its a no-go for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think they are going to bring back the buttons anymore because they are pushing for the touch capacitive screens with integrated touch 3d. We might even loose whatever button is present on the X7510 as it is.

Homemade Tablet? An Idea.

Ok, so here's my dilemma. I want a convertible tablet pc. Problem is though, I think all of the ones on the market are poop. They either run android (I don't see the point still) and iOS, or are clunky and rediculously expensive. But I had a extremley bright idea. Buy whatever laptop I like, slap a touchscreen on that *****, and be happy. Keep in mind that as a poor college student with no job, I will probably never be able to afford this
1. Take apart laptop completley, Rip out the green bullcrap.
2. Mod case to be suitable as a convertible...or just look cool.
3. Rverse USB port to face inside
4. Close USB off from the outside
5. Get a USB Touchscreen conversion kit, which im sure come in many different flavors (Capacitive, Multitouch, Resistive), or better yet use a connector designed for computer internals, making #3 and #4 useless.
6. Add 3rd party accelerometer for Poitrait/Landscape orientation
7. Find a suitable hinge (or make one) and replace it
8. Boot laptop, install drivers for touchscreen and accelerometer
9. Pat myself on the back for custom making a tablet PC?
In my opinion the hardest part would be modding the case to be suitable as a convertible tablet, which can't be too hard. I have access to MIG/TIG welders, sheet metal cutters, grinders, ect. and I know people who know how to use them, so working with metal shouldn't be too dificult. In fact, I probably could just build a case myself from scratch. I also have alot of experience with plastic, so that's not a problem although I'd prefer to use metal for structural parts.
Touchscreen conversion kits seem to be all over the internet with a quick google search, and it shouldn't be too hard to find high quality capacitive touchscreen panels.
Walcom Bamboo Stylus because I'm a G
Accelerometers that work with windows I don't know about, but it cant be too hard Amirite? You can find ANYTHING for sale on the internet.
If I do do this however it will probably be in the summer (when I have a job). The only probelm I might have is the internals, seeing as I've never handled computer internals before. My brother did build his computer though, and I have a friend who also builds computers. It dosen't seem too hard compared to the other stuff like modding the case. While the laptop is dissasembled I'd probably put the parts in ziplock bags to keep them away from dirt and debris while I'm not using them. As long as I'm careful I don't thinkim going to mess anything up.
Good idea or no?

Good idea. Just keep in mind that the whole thing would be much heavier than a regular tablet, so holding it in hand would be difficult.
I have seen an EEE PC modded with a touchscreen, but the keyboard part was still there.

Just get a transformer lol...
What is wrong with Android? What is it you need to do that it won't?
My other idea would be to tell you most android devices are capable of running linux too?
Sounds like alot of work..and there are suitable models on the market, but if you wanna do it?
By the time you get around to it I wonder where technology will be...
PS ziplock bags? NO! Get some static bags..ziplocs are crazy static-charged! Honestly though, sounds like you are a good deal away from being able to deconstruct and reconstruct a laptop..the integrated circuits are ridiculously small and fragile..
PPS The hardest part might be actually getting the accelerometer sensors to function..which is where android comes in..you have to actually write some code into your operating system that will recognize and react accordingly withing the right parameters in your code..devs on this sight have problems with accelerometers that otherwise worked on a stock rom on OEM machines, god knows what it would take to get one working on a machine that never intended to have one by design?
That is all

What's old is new again
It's funny we did something similar a few years ago to build PC's into cars and trucks. For that application and at that time it made sense. Today we essentially just make custom docks for COTS tablets so that they integrate with the car.
If you're opposed to Android and other mobile OS's my suggestion is to start looking around craigslist for convertible tablet/laptops like those from HP and Dell or look for a cheap HP slate. I've seen gently used Slates going for around $200-300 and they run windows 8 reasonably well. I've seen convertibles close to that price as well.
Unless you are just dead set on a fabrication project i'd strongly suggest taking advantage of off the shelf hardware and mass production pricing and spend your extra time and money learning how to get the most of of those components.
If you do go ahead with this then weight and cost will be your biggest issues. I think a better twist on this would be to figure out how to make a transformer type of dock for other popular tablets. If you can make them well and make them cheap then sell a few and buy what you really want.

The reason I don't like android is because It's not a desktop OS. I'll be building this tablet-y thing for graphics/image editing, word processing and a little bit of gaming in between and I'm not 100% sure about android graphics programs. I like to keep it simple and use MS Paint, then GIMP if i need a more powerful program. I'm also a windows fanboy and it's what I've been using ever since I was 2... I also like to build things.
I hate the transformer prime. I want a convertible tablet, not a tablet and a little dock thingy...won't serve my purposes.
I didn't know Ziplock bags are staticy by nature. Thanks for the tip.
As far as the accelerometer, I don't know much about them but if it's super difficult I'm probably not going to bother with it. I'll maybe install a switch?

It's hard to beat windows for functionality but you might check out paint.net as a free replacement for paint.
Over all though I get the idea that you're a little in over your head on this.
Sent from my HTC Flyer using XDA App

LexusFman said:
I hate the transformer prime. I want a convertible tablet, not a tablet and a little dock thingy...won't serve my purposes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you seen the Eee Pad Slider?
Also, Adobe photoshop for android = $10
https://market.android.com/details?id=air.com.adobe.pstouch&hl=en

LexusFman said:
The reason I don't like android is because It's not a desktop OS. I'll be building this tablet-y thing for graphics/image editing, word processing and a little bit of gaming in between and I'm not 100% sure about android graphics programs. I like to keep it simple and use MS Paint, then GIMP if i need a more powerful program. I'm also a windows fanboy and it's what I've been using ever since I was 2... I also like to build things.
I hate the transformer prime. I want a convertible tablet, not a tablet and a little dock thingy...won't serve my purposes.
I didn't know Ziplock bags are staticy by nature. Thanks for the tip.
As far as the accelerometer, I don't know much about them but if it's super difficult I'm probably not going to bother with it. I'll maybe install a switch?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude, I've got photoshop, an office suite, and tons of games, I'd never have to touch a PC again..I am a graphic designer by trade! I can even watch hulu (something not supposed to be capable of on android platforms), I've got a nice stylus and a full qwerty keyboard and mouse- I'm working on the OG transformer not the Prime, as far as I can tell the Prime was pushed too quickly and has issues with all of it's radios due to the metal shell..the TF101 does not have these issues, and the TF700 (basically the prime with the GPS and radios fixed and better resoultion) is available if you don't want to go for the OG transformer.
Seriously sounds like you're trying feverishly to open a can of worms to get a windows tablet when in reality there is no need and windows is given a run for it's money with the new ICS android on the way. Trying to unlock a windows phone after unlocking a whole bunch of Android devices would quickly turn you off of Microsoft as an OS IMO, that's what made me an Android fanboy (I was a windows guy previously, now I'm leaning more and more towards linux/android for their open source code user-friendly programability). But, if you are determined to do something the hard way = the expensive and labor/time-consuming way, no one is going to stop you
Just remember- in the world of technology things are done: Right, Cheap, and/or Fast. BUT, you can only choose two..

I've done this already with a eeePC 700.
1. The resistive touchscreen. You'll need a stylus for that.
2. Typing with a stylus is horrible.
3. It was heavy. Even when it was only 7inch screen. The battery made it heavy. (but I had 9hours of battery life)
4. You couldn't navigate the boot menu (without an external keyboard)
5. Resistive touchscreen is crap for drawing, because you still want to support your hand on the screen while drawing, which you couldn't do.
6. Moving Items around sucked (no drag and drop)
and many more.
I used it in my bed, for browsing. was good enough, until the touchscreen cable snapped. (I didn't have an external keyboard, so I had to open the tablet, connect the keyboard, and navigate the boot menu when I had to)
Hope this helped. Though it was fun to build it and use it, it's not what you would call an 'every day' tablet

romitkin said:
Good idea. Just keep in mind that the whole thing would be much heavier than a regular tablet, so holding it in hand would be difficult.
I have seen an EEE PC modded with a touchscreen, but the keyboard part was still there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think it would be much heavier, in fact I think the idea is perfect for modification of a netbook. It would probably be cheapest. since so much case modding is required and so many enclosure fabrication resources are handy, to put together a frankenstein out of 2 or 3 broken netbooks. Find someone who smashed the screen of one netbook, another one who fried the board of theirs, find a total-loss broken tablet PC (like dropped in lake michigan level of total loss so it will cost pennies) and get the ribbon cable and swivel element from there. I think if this idea is applied to a netbook it would be excellent in size and weight as well as functionality. And with the x86 version of android's progress, it could even be running android like a tablet in screen out mode, and change to webtop mode when its swiveled. Put a netbook mobile broadband card in there, many netbooks have open card expansions under the screw-out panels underneath, if not you would have to choose between wifi or taking the wifi expansion out in favor of a mobile broadband card, and certainly make sure that the card is supported by your wireless provider if you choose to go the mobile broadband route. With verizon or sprint you will most likely have to acquire a mobile broadband card out of a netbook that was originally sold by the company, but be sure to check and make sure the MEID is clean before paying anything for one, if the seller defaulted on a contract they used to acquire it, you might as well flash the thing to cricket or metroPCS and use them as your mobile broadband carrier. With either wifi or mobile broadband, as well as bluetooth, don't forget the antenna! yeah that thing you have to unhook from the other side of the card to take it out, you need that. (oh yeah, bluetooths are included as expansion cards sometimes too, if so you could always remove this to make room for the mobile broadband if you don't use bluetooth. I sure don't and probably wont until they drop the rediculous prices of non-audio bluetooth interfaces to acceptable and competative levels.)
That project actually sounds pretty freakin cool, the type of thing I'd do if I wasn't already swamped with projects. Definetly keep us posted if you decide to go through with it, as I pointed out, if you build it from netbook parts it should be well within your budget, netbooks run much cheaper then notebooks already, but a netbook is comperable in power to most current android devices and thus is suitable to handle most things you'd use a tablet PC for, just not high powered stuff like compiling code or rendering animation or playing 3d online games.
Edit: I'd like to add and point out that as a regular user of an acer netbook running ubuntu, it is wise to refrain from excessive multitasking, the atom had to sacrifice a bit of things we've become accustomed to in notebooks to meet the low power consumption and operating temperature requirements, and a lot of those things are things that mostly benefit multitasking. You will not be happy if you try and run a jillion programs at the same time.
That being said ubuntu's new primary UI, I forget what it's called evolve or something like that, it is an excellent UI for netbooks, perfectly space-optimized, especially in the vertical range which gets filled quick on lil netbook screens. I'm not sold on it and prefer to go with gnome or xfce on desktops and normal-sized notebooks, but it is top-notch on a netbook. I'd also recommend not messing with the accelerometer at first and including it later as it may be a pain to implement correctly in comparison to the limited amount of functionality it brings to the table. I'd rather have something that works personally that I can make additions to then pull my hair out trying to throw everything in the first time right.
---------- Post added at 10:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:47 AM ----------
Will_nonya said:
It's hard to beat windows for functionality but you might check out paint.net as a free replacement for paint.
Over all though I get the idea that you're a little in over your head on this.
Sent from my HTC Flyer using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have to LMAO @ this comment. If users would ever actually push developers to release for the linux platform, especially hardware manufacturers (which is ridiculous since all they would have to do is release their code open source, or even just parts of their code and the community would do the rest. Doesn't matter much tho, it's mostly crappy chinese hardware that isn't supported by linux, and their HQs more then likely don't speak enough english to be able to request anything, beleive me I've tried to contact MSI before.... most hardware worth running is fully supported tho)
But point is, I feel like it is extremely cumbersome whenever I'm forced to use windows, apart from trying to use unsupported hardware or cross-platform software (although wine and mono have made GIGANTIC leaps in usability). I pretty much never have to deal with drivers, updates to all software happens automatically, it's become so self-maintaining that I'm ashamed of how lazy of a linux user I've become. When I actually do have to do something even remotely advanced I have to think for a minute about it. Usually the only thing that really requires a lot of getting under the hood that I ever have to do is when I set up my audio-production setups which is even a lot easier now that they have dedicated repositories for them, and when set up correctly the real time preemptable kernel will run circles around any windows or OSX setup latency-wise. I was pulling lower latency with computers recording with ardour, and sequencing/synthesizing/sampling with seq24 amSynth, and qsampler, 5 years older then any PC I would test it against running windows with Reason and Protools. the Jack audio drivers that allowed software to plug audio inbetween applications directly across the PCM was just icing on the cake.
Windows is good software, but linux has certainly surpassed it by leaps and bounds. Windows still rules for gaming because of directX and industry unwillingness to port to linux, but the period of time right after Microsoft declared it was removing directX support from XP on further releases saw linux catch up with windows for a little while as they rushed wine to support the newest directX making it actually possible to actually run new releases under windowsXP even. Curses microsoft, foiled again! And off topic, but furthermore, I can't believe people still pay so much money for that god damn talking paper clip, openoffice.org ftw!
As I said windows isn't bad software, I said before in these forums actually that if windows ran a microsoft controlled repository to distribute all software for windows through, like linux, it would have similarly non-existant problems with viruses. Having people go around the wild-west of the internet downloading and installing programs from there without even thinking about it is just asking for the malware and adware problems windows experiences. Windows is good software, linux is just much better software.

Too complicated...
On a second thought how about moding a cheap Tablet with better parts. Is it even possible like are the parts such as a processor, camera, or the radio chip available for tablets and phones.

Why dnt you get a transformer?

In my opinion, it would just be better to settle for an table, prices are gonna drop really soon. The market for Eee PC's alike has diminished since the release of the ipad.

This is a wonderful opinion. The things mentioned are unanimous and needs to be appreciated by everyone.

A lot of things to doo, better start with a simple tablet and try to upgrade it if possible... dont know if its possible btw.

I did something almost like this.
Took apart a dirt cheap acer aspire one with a small 8 GB SDD.
Small 280 Atom 1.6GHz cpu and cheap intel GMA gpu.
Inverted the screen
Added a extra 512MB ram and inserted a 16GB SD card.
My battery however did not stand up to the task so i ordered a 9 cell pack.
It ran quite stable with 6 days standby or 12hours of heavy usage.
The lack of a accelerometer however made it a pain for quite a few games.
But i did have a vague plan to get value's from it into the android OS using a AVR and a few other cheap parts.
Many manufacturers still produce cheap atom notebooks like these.
But hardware specs have gotten better and better, so you should be able to pick one up for cheap still.

http://www.axiotron.com
Soooo 2008...

I'm doing this with an old pentium 3 thinkbook. I know its not really that great of a computer but it at least redeems it as a usable device.

sounds interesting will looking forward for it....

Good Idea!