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I don't own this phone, but was considering switching from Cingular's GSM network to Sprint's CDMA so that I can use high speed EV-DO, since I have no idea when Cingular's UMTS or HSDPA upgrade will happen.
Anywho... getting back on track to my question. It says that this phone has a GPS chip, which is used for E-911 location. Can this chip be used by navigation software, such as TomTom? Or is it only utilized when you dial 911?
I currently have the HTC Beetles (HP iPAQ 6515b) and it has a built-in GPS antenna that I just love, and would like to get another phone that still has this feature.
The GPS info is not available for mapping programs.
Correct.
ran-o-matic said:
The GPS info is not available for mapping programs.
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Click to collapse
At this time that information is unavailable. Please see posts at
http://pdaphonehome.com/forums/ppc-6700-xv6700/73387-possible-access-gps-data-6700-a-1.html
It's nine pages as of current date. No answers yet.
Does Anyone knows how to get the Internal GPS to work with Windows Live Map?
Thanks,
gpsone isn't in standalone mode so it cannot be accessed by applications
There are rumors that it'll be activated in the EVDO Rev A update this fall.
so wait... mogul has a gps?
it's built into the qualcomm cpu like the kaiser. it's assumed the gps shares the cell antenna since there's no gps antenna on board and the documentation states this is possible. the kaiser has the 7200 the mogul has the 7500. kaiser w/ test rom allows for the gpsone to run in standalone mode and the kaiser seems to have an antenna so it works.
as of right now it's assumed gps will work when unlocked but it's still a gray area; there may or may not be an antenna
The FCC application describes the Mogul as
"a CDMA850/CDMA1900 (1XEVDO / 1XRTT / IS-95A/B) Pocket PC Phone with wireless LAN, bluetooth, and GPS functions."
https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=Exhibits&RequestTimeout=500&calledFromFrame=N&application_id=391628&fcc_id='NM8TITA100'
the listing of gps functionality is ambiguous; all cellphones are required to have agps for e911 emergency in the usa as mandated by the fcc. gpsone is in quite a few htc devices but only a handful have antennas attached
how accurate is agps? versus standalone gps?
someone on PPCgeeks reported that Live Search was working on Sprint Moguls using tower triangulation. I'm not sure if this is different than AGPS, but it sure it neat to have location based services, even if accurate only to a few hundred yards...
Dishe said:
someone on PPCgeeks reported that Live Search was working on Sprint Moguls using tower triangulation. I'm not sure if this is different than AGPS, but it sure it neat to have location based services, even if accurate only to a few hundred yards...
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Click to collapse
A-GPS = tower assisted GPS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_GPS
i had my telenav rep confirm when the rev a patch is released that the GPS will be unlocked as well.
samspoon said:
the listing of gps functionality is ambiguous; all cellphones are required to have agps for e911 emergency in the usa as mandated by the fcc. gpsone is in quite a few htc devices but only a handful have antennas attached
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Click to collapse
All cell phones certainly DO NOT have aGPS. Please do not confuse aGPS for tower triangulation.
aGPS is assisted GPS meaning it uses the cell phone towers to assist an existing GPS chipset.
So if the Mogul has aGPS, then it has to have GPS by definition.
he is right though. FCC does now require that ALL new phones in the united states have GPS (to an extent) for at least e911.
TC1 said:
A-GPS = tower assisted GPS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_GPS
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Click to collapse
Yes, I'm aware of the definition.
The way AGPS is described is similar to how articles are describing the technology Sprint and MS are using... and since every Sprint phone is mandated by the FCC to have 911 AGPS capabilities, I'm wondering if this is the same thing.
samspoon said:
as of right now it's assumed gps will work when unlocked but it's still a gray area; there may or may not be an antenna
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Kaiser has a big "GPS" on the back where you can hook up an external antenna. No such luck with the Mogul.
But I still can hope that _some_ kind of GPS would come with Rev.A. Sucky GPS is better than no GPS...
I think you guys know as well as I do, that even if the phone has a functional gps and a antenna sprint will still never unlock it. Its not that they dont want to, they are lazy. There have been lots of firmware "updates" I have been waiting for on other sprint phones that they were going to release and never did.
As for external GPS recievers what do you guys think of this one?
http://www.semsons.com/wo44chawaauo.html
That supports A-GPS you think that would work?
Madzilla said:
I think you guys know as well as I do, that even if the phone has a functional gps and a antenna sprint will still never unlock it. Its not that they dont want to, they are lazy. There have been lots of firmware "updates" I have been waiting for on other sprint phones that they were going to release and never did.
As for external GPS recievers what do you guys think of this one?
http://www.semsons.com/wo44chawaauo.html
That supports A-GPS you think that would work?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if you are going to go with an external BT reciever any should work, since its not using the phones GPS at all
If you want an external, get a Holux M-1200. Tiny, cheap, and works amazing. I love mine!
ok, so any external gps will work? some of them say A-GPS compatible and others dont. Does that matter at all?
I was told by my friend who works at Sprint today that they will be unlocking the GPS in Quarter 4 of this year.
She said that originally they did not unlock it as they were having issues with the hardware and software, but are prepping to unlock it soon to us.
Sorry if this has been put out there already, but thought I would share what I heard. hopeful anyway, huh?
Is this guy a reliable source of info? Or is he a rep who hears stuff through the grapevine like the rest of us? (I've heard some crazy misunderstood info coming from people who "work for sprint")
Over at ppcgeeks.com someone dissasembled their Mogul and the general conclusion was that the GPS had been disabled via hardware, although they admit they're not sure.
The rumor also was that it would be available to us with the Rev A update due to come out soon. Although no one knew for sure where this info came from. Could be someone made it up, wishful thinking.
So, yes, this rumor has been around, but we're still waiting for someone to actually confirm it.
Honestly, I'll beleive it when I see it.
Dishe said:
Is this guy a reliable source of info? Or is he a rep who hears stuff through the grapevine like the rest of us? (I've heard some crazy misunderstood info coming from people who "work for sprint")
Over at ppcgeeks.com someone dissasembled their Mogul and the general conclusion was that the GPS had been disabled via hardware, although they admit they're not sure.
The rumor also was that it would be available to us with the Rev A update due to come out soon. Although no one knew for sure where this info came from. Could be someone made it up, wishful thinking.
So, yes, this rumor has been around, but we're still waiting for someone to actually confirm it.
Honestly, I'll beleive it when I see it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This person is a software engineer at Sprint, and she said that the reason they didn't have it unlocked in the beginning was due to a hardware/software conflict, but that it will be unlocked in an upcoming ROM update. She said that Sprint had announced it somewhere internally.
I have a few contacts in sprint, I'll try verifying this tommorow
From what I understand, the Mogul has A-GPS. This is the same GPS that allows them to find you if you make an emergency call. It does not work off sattelites but rather from cell towers.
On the bright side, it shares the same Qualcomm 7200 chip that the Kaiser will use.
Some maintain that the Kaiser has built in GPS, others claim it has no satellite antenna and requires an external antenna.
Sprint originally advertised the phone as having GPS. Now that has been removed from their advertisement.
It will be ineresting to see what will happen with the evdo rev. a upgrade later this year.
rambo6 said:
From what I understand, the Mogul has A-GPS. This is the same GPS that allows them to find you if you make an emergency call. It does not work off sattelites but rather from cell towers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly. The bottom line from what I understand is that the Mogul does not have the built-in hardware to do full GPS that will work with independent mapping software (Google, etc).
[RANT]This is getting a bit old - people claiming that A-GPS does not work off satellites.
Please do some research before posting this type of mis-information.
A-GPS is Assisted GPS. It uses information from the cellular network to ASSIST the GPS for faster TTFF.
And the Mogul uses a different chipset than the Kaiser. One uses the 7200, while the other 7500.[/RANT]
Ok... so now that you ranted... is it your opinion that the Mogul will or will not be able to do full GPS?
And actually.... A-GPS doesn't directly work off of the satellites. Since it takes a long time for a cell phone device to download the positioning data from the GPS satellites, what the A-GPS system does is let the A-GPS servers at the cell towers download and accumulate the data, the cell phones then talk to the A-GPS servers to get the data (which happens within seconds).
When A-GPS is enabled, would it have the possibility to work with Mobile GMaps ? Or is the Java still restricted?
Don't we have A-GPS already enabled? Isn't that the little GPS icon in the phone dialer? I know I have the option to turn it off/on in the phone settings just like all other agps handsets.
If something is going to be "enabled" with a new update, that means it will most likely be real standalone GPS.
TC1, no one knows that for sure. It was speculated.
I AM POSTING THIS FOR THE LAST TIME
The Mogul has the Qualcomm msm7500 as its cpu. BUILT INTO the cpu is the gpsone chipset. This is able to achieve AGPS as well as GPS. It runs in 4 different modes. To have the serial link to work with applications the chipset must be run in standalone mode.
It is on the damn phone as it is part of the cpu! It is currently not in standalone mode so there is no way to access the chip. The only true thing up in the air is whether or not the phone can obtain a satellite lock in standalone mode.
Dishe said:
Don't we have A-GPS already enabled? Isn't that the little GPS icon in the phone dialer? I know I have the option to turn it off/on in the phone settings just like all other agps handsets.
If something is going to be "enabled" with a new update, that means it will most likely be real standalone GPS.
TC1, no one knows that for sure. It was speculated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correct, like almost every modern cell phone, A-GPS is enabled. There is no debate there.
I agree with you regarding speculation on the "stand-alone GPS" aspect. I've never seen definitive info from HTC that says yes or no on this subject. If there is real info regarding this, some links would be nice.
HTC's site says:
It is widely rumored that this phone has a GPS chip that has been disabled. Will there be a hack or workaround to enable GPS capabilities?
Answer: Not likely, it is AGPS which requires a connected call to get data location.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sonix6 said:
HTC's site says:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thats from their wiki site, so its not necessarily true
/me keeps fingers crossed
This would be good news. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed for this.
gpsone (in most all msm chipsets including kaiser and mogul):
How gpsOne Works:
The gpsOne technology functions in four different modes of operation. Chosen automatically or specified by software, the
four modes are Standalone GPS, Mobile Station (MS)-based, MS-assisted and MS-assisted/Hybrid. In the A-GPS modes,
gpsOne technology utilizes assistance data from a location server in the wireless network in combination with A-GPS circuitry
and software in the wireless device.
Note: The common term used by standards bodies for the handset/terminal device in CDMA2000 is "Mobile Station" (MS) and in WCDMA (UMTS)/GPRS/GSM/HSDPA/EDGE is
“User Equipment” (UE). For simplicity in this document, references to the handset/terminal will be "MS," but this use implies both MS and UE.
Standalone GPS: The GPS receiver calculates a position without using any assistance data and without a connection to
the wireless network.
MS-Based: The GPS receiver calculates the position using assistance data from a location server to increase cold-start
sensitivity and reduce the start time for an initial position calculation.
MS-Assisted: The GPS receiver uses assistance data from a location server to make measurements related to its distance
from the GPS satellites, then sends this information to the location server where the position is calculated. This mode also
increases cold start sensitivity and reduces the start time for an initial position calculation.
MS-Assisted/Hybrid: Wireless network information is added to GPS measurements as part of the position calculation by
the location server, integrating the relative strengths of GPS information and available wireless network location information
for increased positioning reliability in difficult GPS environments.
In assisted operation, a gpsOne-enabled handset receives
a small “assistance data” message from a network location
server using standardized protocols
• The handset then reads information from GPS satellites to
measure its distance from all the satellites it can see (called
“ranging” information).
• The handset then uses this ranging information to create a
position “fix,” or sends the ranging information back to the
server where it can be combined with network information
to produce an even better fix.
• gpsOne also operates in Standalone mode, without requiring
any assistance data from the network
straight from the gpsOne document.
interesting indeed... question is, will Sprint release firmware that allows it to run in standalone mode?
I suppose the truth is, even if it doesn't, someone can figure out how to enable it with some sort of hack eventually since its just software controlled according to this document.
has anyone played with this reg key?
\HKCU\ControlPanel\PhoneExtendFunction\CDMA\GPSOneSetting = 0
Edit: the value does not contain a space between "GPSOne" and "Setting", but vbulletin modifies my text when i post....
I don't know if this info helps or not... I spoke to a HTC TS and they told me the 6800 has GPS but is sprint decision to enable it or not. He also told me that it can be unlock but sprint is the only one with the code and he can not provide me with that info.
New poster old reader, may be found some info.
I found Many info that may me can help somebodies about the msm 7500 (gpsOne technologie)...It is hard to know what to believe 'cause half/half
people say that this is impossible, and the other half say that gonna happen soon. I think that we should make our own idea by our own knowledge . I found many topic on many forum (htc, gpsunderground,here...ask me if interressed) One Qualcomm offical site i've got pdf about msm chips, and gpsOne tech... (Snap track location service for gpsOne may be a good start point to invest)
Interessing link's:
FCC test repport for tita100 (titan) (That include plane mode settings):
https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas...lledFromFrame=N&application_id=391628&fcc_id=
Here it seem to be codes:
http://www.wlt.net.cn/index0/FD-800/pdf/CNI FD-800 gpsOne Menual ver1 0_0117.pdf
Similar:
http://www.wlt.net.cn/index0/FD-800/pdf/FD-800_Application_Guide ver1 0(1).pdf
And found other about SDK from Qualcomm API's seem to be aivalaible to third party dev. Also seem to be hard to be registred as dev. But hope...
And if internal budies have code it is just a time question before a solution.
So i wish that i'm not making more mistake or false info...if tell me.
And for gps freak who will tell that different anthenna needed, diffrent frequencies for GPS...see the end of the document FD-800 manual (2nd link).
So thank for this helpfull forum, forgive my poor english expression, and lack of programming knoledge , my is disignig pcb, and electrical pannels, but not to programme them's( not enough )...
I'm trying to figure out if anyone else is having this problem.
Got my G1 on the 21st. been playing with a few things and the laundry list of UI annoyances is getting longer by the minute.
but overall quite impressed. Here's a weird one.
Google Maps (on G1 of course) cannot locate my phone - at all - with wifi OFF and gps OFF.
I am in a 3G zone. Google Maps on my HTC Touch worked fine (EDGE only of course)
So I looked around and found a reference somewhere stating that cellid geolocation does NOT work in 3G areas.
Is this true of all 3G phones?? If so it's very strange - because I like to keep 3G on but when I am indoors or for that matter when I want to save battery I turn off GPS and wifi.
So why the hell would they not be able to geolocate by cellid?
I tested it on my G1 and it's true - as soon as you turn off 3G (Settings->Wireless Controls->Mobile Networks) then cellid Geolocation works fine.
Just thought people might want to know and I'm curious if anyone else has the same problem.
Nick
I heard from a network engineer that all of the 3G hardware was rapid deployed and configured to minimum specs which happened to NOT include enabling aGPS. It was either an oversight or a timesaver. This will be fixed, it is a known issue. All the techs are still in the middle of the initial deployment and rapid expansion before the end of the quarter.
I HOPE to god Tmo can stop the ATT commercials that brag about the fastest network in the US after this quarter.
that only kind of makes sense...
I mean sure - it's all new etc...
but the point is that the network is not doing the a bit of the aGPS - google is.
Google does a lookup of the cellid in its database - and presumably does not have any information on the new cellids.....YET.
I just find that weird - I am in the metropolitan LA area and you would think with all the hoopla of this launch and the financial might of google they could have gotten it together by now - I mean these towers didn't go up yesterday...
Nick
syrusfrost said:
I heard from a network engineer that all of the 3G hardware was rapid deployed and configured to minimum specs which happened to NOT include enabling aGPS. It was either an oversight or a timesaver. This will be fixed, it is a known issue. All the techs are still in the middle of the initial deployment and rapid expansion before the end of the quarter.
I HOPE to god Tmo can stop the ATT commercials that brag about the fastest network in the US after this quarter.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nickybee said:
Google does a lookup of the cellid in its database - and presumably does not have any information on the new cellids.....YET.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
erm, is that how aGPS works on the G1? That's stupid. I was under the impression that it worked like normal aGPS... I.E. -
Phone: Where am I?
Tower: You are @ 33.12345/32.12345 accuracy 2000 meters
Tower: GPS sattelites G51, T85, R14 are 3 strongest
Phone: Fed GPS data to GPS radio, warm start for 10 sec lock as opposed to over a minute for a cold start lock.
And I am also under the impression that alot of the 3G hardware wasn't configured with the appropriate data (position with est of accuracy based on closest towers and affinity and the 3 strongest GPS signals for that area). The issue was noticed and any new hardware should be fine. Problems will be resolved as the expansion portion of the project begins and all of the areas are revisited.
Where did you get your info nickybee?
aad4321 said:
agps works fine with me on 3G....
also under settings...security and location.... if you look under "use wireless networks" it says with that turned on, it uses wifi and cell towers for location. I would imagine with this off, it will not geolocate through towers...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes that was turned on on my G1 of course.
and no it still doesn't work.
nick
hey syrus - I didn't mean aGPS - I was just referring to the (a) part of the GPS.
i.e. there is no Phone saying "Where am I"
it goes
GMaps application: "What's my cell id?"
Phone: "It's ABC1"
GMaps application: "Hey Google dbase - where's cellid ABC1"
Google: "ABC1 is at 33.12345/32.12345 accuracy 2000 meters"
As to where I get my information from it's out of my ass
I accept that I could be totally wrong - but I assume that google does not go to the carriers for cellid information - it just drives around with the mobile vans and captures GPS data for Wifi and cellid simultaneously. Since the towers are quite new - their data has not been captured yet
Nick
syrusfrost said:
erm, is that how aGPS works on the G1? That's stupid. I was under the impression that it worked like normal aGPS... I.E. -
Phone: Where am I?
Tower: You are @ 33.12345/32.12345 accuracy 2000 meters
Tower: GPS sattelites G51, T85, R14 are 3 strongest
Phone: Fed GPS data to GPS radio, warm start for 10 sec lock as opposed to over a minute for a cold start lock.
And I am also under the impression that alot of the 3G hardware wasn't configured with the appropriate data (position with est of accuracy based on closest towers and affinity and the 3 strongest GPS signals for that area). The issue was noticed and any new hardware should be fine. Problems will be resolved as the expansion portion of the project begins and all of the areas are revisited.
Where did you get your info nickybee?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i never used the built in gpa, so far.
I use my bluetooth keychain gps. had it from my old excalibur.
works great
nickybee said:
GMaps application: "What's my cell id?"
Phone: "It's ABC1"
GMaps application: "Hey Google dbase - where's cellid ABC1"
Google: "ABC1 is at 33.12345/32.12345 accuracy 2000 meters"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Erm, you know now that I look at it Google is implementing SOMETHING new, I don't know how far they are taking it. Traditional aGPS has been around for a long time now, Google was never involved. I believe that at this point, with this version of Android things are still working the way they always have.
But! Did you notice the setting also indicates that the phone can find your location by wifi stations? I BET google receiving GPS data from users while they are connected to WIFI networks.
And then there's things like this below... ahh
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20071116-its-official-google-planning-700mhz-bid.html
Who knows, but I think as far as cell tower based aGPS is concerned android sticks with the basics. It's one data packet sent to the tower, and one back, rather than setting up a connection making a database query and receiving a reply.
They probably envisioned something like...
Phone: Where am I?
Tower: Shiii I dunno where you aaat?
Phone: Grrr, Google! I am connected to wifi access point "ATT" with SSID:12345678945 Where am I?
Google: Looks like syrusfrost was there last week, he was at 32.12345/33.12345 and he used GPS satellites.....
I really don't know how google is doing the Wifi geolocation, they may be parsing some of the wardriving databases out there for the major metro areas, hell when you drive with maps and wifi on you may be wardriving for google, wouldn't that be interesting...
Mikey1022 said:
i never used the built in gpa, so far.
I use my bluetooth keychain gps. had it from my old excalibur.
works great
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hows the battery life?
I have an Elf from Rogers, and trying to get the internal GPS to function. everything I have read said that there is an Internal GPS, but nothing i try seems to get it to work. google maps gets me close but thats about it. any help would be greatly appreciated.
an elf doesnt have an internal gps in my opinion google maps works with gsm antennas.
I myself use a bluetooth gps antenna 20 euro
Based on my search, the CDMA version is the one that has the internal GPS....i myslef would have loved to have GPS on my GSM version. Let me know if you find anything..
Yeah, but it seems like the GSM is more 'budget'.
LOL.
I will keep a lookout for you.
From my sources, I heard that even the CDMA has GPS, it wasnt activated in the software.
Rendering it useless.