So I've been having a discussion in another thread regarding the use of older versions of MSOS's on PPC. That spawned a question on my part:
Is there a development group here somewhere that is working on a Linux OS, or another OS for PPC?
Linux will run on just about anything, its' lightweight OS needs little memory and cpu power. So how hard would it be to design a light Linux based OS for a PPC?
Obviously it would take a group of people, much like those groups developing Linux distros and programs.
I think there is memory to be saved, and speed to be had. And if someone were smart enough to wrap a dialer and vendor agnostic connectivity around it, it would take off.
Any interest in this?
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=Xanadux
or android
or
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=e...H_en-GBGB243GB243&q=linux+for+pocket+pc&meta=
Wow, I'm disappointed.
There are hundreds of WM5 & WM6 custom ROMs' being developed by hundreds of top notch developers...... and only ONE Linux port?
very underwhelming...
You may also want to check out OpenMoko (http://www.openmoko.org) or just try and put together your own.
Splitter said:
Wow, I'm disappointed.
There are hundreds of WM5 & WM6 custom ROMs' being developed by hundreds of top notch developers...... and only ONE Linux port?
very underwhelming...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a whole different thing. All those roms you are talking about are just modifications of an existing OS.
The linux port amounts to building an OS from scratch, and it's a lot harder.
edzilla said:
It's a whole different thing. All those roms you are talking about are just modifications of an existing OS.
The linux port amounts to building an OS from scratch, and it's a lot harder.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed.
Actually porting Linux to an HTC device wouldn't be so bad. Some people have found out how to flash ROM's theoretically without needing a bootloader even.
The problem really boils down to drivers for Linux. We can't even get proper video drivers working with the Kaiser under Windows Mobile (the proper drivers were never included, so video output is slowwww) though the hardware supports 3d acceleration! HTC denies our requests for hardware specs to develop our own. And this is trouble we're having with drivers for Windows!
Really it boils down to this hardware. This type of hardware being proprietary as you can get. You've got processors and controllers that are highly proprietary and the vendors are tied in to 100 different non compete non-disclosure agreements and can't provide specs. Even the qualcomm chips borrow code from broadcom -- which means qualcomm can't publish how those portions of their chips work! Microsoft then licenses code from these vendors with promises not to share source. HTC licenses code from broadcom and qualcom swearing not to publish it. Etc etc...
Now, your a Linux developer. How do you integrate drivers in to your kernel when the chip instruction set isn't even documented? Control codes aren't published? Reverse engineering is the only way, which can take years. Developers here have learned simple controls such as to change LED's or discovered the standard interface for USB/SD cards. That's about it.
It's hard for an open source OS to survive in a closed-spec hardware world. PC's are open and well documented and very standard. However, every phone is different, and different production runs may even have significant changes in internal hardware design.
It's really a waste of time to seek Linux on mobile devices until hardware becomes standardized. Which is never because companies like qualcomm and broadcomm via and others are not fans of open source. This is the market and those who dominate it.
If this saddens you, it should -- but it's just the way it is.
Related
Hi !
Does anyone actually know if android can be installed / flashed on current devices ? Or it's only for certain devices that come with it preinstalled ?
Please don't post things like: "i would love it if it did" or "omg, android is great"...
I'm looking for an answer from someone who actually knows or someone who knows exactly how this stuff works...
Thanks
PS: Menneisyys, i hope you'll post something
I don't think that you'll be getting your answer any time soon as nobody has seen the thing yet.
But i would speculate that as HTC is one of the partners, it might be possible. HTC probably wont reinvent their phones again for the android.
Not a programmer...
but i was listening to leo laport yesterday and it seems that ggls world domination strategy would be all including. so it seems very likely that they would allow some version of it for use on other phones.
http://techguylabs.com/radio/ShowNotes/Show403#toc5
At this point, since there there is no release yet and nobody has/can play with it, it's probably hard to say. However, knowing Google, there is a good possibility they will come out with an app that allows you to use your current phone (speculation).
I heard that Android based on some Java-sintacsys - maybe it is good for us?
Well, the SDK has been released, get it here: http://code.google.com/android/. A demo video is available on the page to show you what it's capable of thus far--looks promising. I'm no coder, but I wish someone would develop this for current HTC devices. As an incentive, Google launched an Android Developer Challenge (http://code.google.com/android/adc.html), where developers of "innovative, useful apps" can win up to $275,000.
leetsauce said:
Well, the SDK has been released, get it here: http://code.google.com/android/. A demo video is available on the page to show you what it's capable of thus far--looks promising. I'm no coder, but I wish someone would develop this for current HTC devices. As an incentive, Google launched an Android Developer Challenge (http://code.google.com/android/adc.html), where developers of "innovative, useful apps" can win up to $275,000.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I grabbed the SDk and got a basic hello world up and running. From what the video said and what I can glean from various sites. The Android OS is designed to run on existing hardware. I would imagine that includes HTC machines. Its a complete OS though not an app so I would imagine you have to blow away WM6 and put android on in order to take advantage of its functionality. The actual coding appears to be extremely easy.
I can see google or the community releasing a "shell" of Android.
The more people with it the more money for them. If you watched the video they are really trying to push the location based services from GPS, cell towers, IP address... can anyone say more cash for ads.
I wouldn't mind having it on WM and its open source so there a good chance we will see it.
Alpine would be perfect for Android
Alpine would be a perfect phone if recycled with android !!
Good processor, lots of mem and a big screen for touch sensasions!!
Is it a dream or could that become reality?
Is Android compatible with HTC Touch-style hardware or does it require the numberpad?
There is a linux-2.6.23-android-m3-rc20.tar.gz kernel file on the android google code project site, there is also ADB utility - Android Debug Bridge (comes with SDK), it has an option of flashing a device (over usb) or an emulator (which is also included in the package)...the question is how to compile that kernel and make it run on our HTCs, and what kindof boot loader does it require? Maybe guys from Xanadux know better
It's also interesting how JAVA is being used after becoming open source, it appears that android is mostly independent from the JAVA API, the only relevance I found was only basic stuff like java.util, java.io and etc (included in the android.jar)...
i think that android will work on htc devices because pretty much they are the ones that will be releasing the first devices preloaded with android and i think that white device was made from htc. I see a potential here so i ask some one to make a thread on porting android to any or a specific device. good luck and may the force be with you.
ps. i hope its a htc wizard
I'd say we'd be waiting to see the HDK come out before we can put it on our own devices, can't wait though.
A dream
The Android SDK includes an emulator, see here http://www.ohadev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15
Quote: "It seems that the main binary is emulator; this includes a qemu-0.8.2, which runs (in system mode) the ARM kernel image at lib/images/kernel-qemu.
Two more images are mounted from lib/images : the system.img (which appears to be the rootfs, and userdata.img, which gets replicated (and mounted from there) at $HOME/.android/userdata.img."
This guy (http://mamaich.uni.cc/fr_pocket.htm) got Qemu compiled for ARM, buggy/crashing, no visible update for several years, see also here http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/in...e_to_running_ms_dos_8_12&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1
Question: Anyone have any more recent news/experiences about Qemu on ARM/HTC?
So, theoretically one could try running the Android Kernel image from the SDK emulator on Qemu on PocketPC.
Even if it works (highly unlikely), this megasandwich AndroidImage->Qemu->PocketPC would probably be fantastically slow, with dodgy/absent I/O support.
Real solution is to wait for a modifyable Kernel which can run natively on the HTC ARM processor.
Did not someone from google mentioned at the day of the release that android will run on any ARM9 based device?
dirac said:
Real solution is to wait for a modifyable Kernel which can run natively on the HTC ARM processor.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no such thing as "HTC ARM processor". All major ARM-based CPUs
are supported by Linux, it's the device drivers for external hardware that are
often missing because of the missing documentation.
cr2 said:
There is no such thing as "HTC ARM processor". All major ARM-based CPUs
are supported by Linux, it's the device drivers for external hardware that are
often missing because of the missing documentation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im sure that HTC will release drivers for all their devices since they are partners in the Open Handset Alliance..
prodinho said:
Im sure that HTC will release drivers for all their devices since they are partners in the Open Handset Alliance..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are some doubts that the (future) drivers will be released as free software, and not some binary blobs like nvidia, ati and m-systems did it in the past.
Binary linux kernel drivers are evil
I read both on Twitter and online about Palm Pre's "WebOS" being based on the same kernel or structure that is designed for Android/G1.
Is anybody in the works on seeing if its possible to run WebOS on a G1?
Note: I guess I'm asking to not to replace the Android but to say that if its possible and that it can be done.
webOS runs on the Linux kernel, but nothing else beyond that is open source. How are you going to port an operating system to a different microarchitecture and hardware specification without its source code? Answer: you're probably not.
Why would you want to though?
It may be cute, but the platform has yet to prove itself. Developers are going to be cautious about developing for that platform due to how palm has so severely stagnated over the last few years. Unless the platform shows signs of really catching on, I would just ignore it.
Dear members of the forum,
I've been trying to decide which path to take to get started with mobile development on modern devices. I've done some windows mobile development and quite a lot j2me development in the past, and I am very keen to explore these modern platforms.
However, I'm trying to understand the opportunities in Android platform and IPhone, and I need your help to complete some of the missing bits.
Android does not seem allow native code access to hardware for obvious reasons. It appears you can write native libraries, but they can't access hardware either.
IPhone on the other hand, seems to offer compiled code access to hardware, making it easier to port things like vlc player.
On the other hand, Android gives you the OS source code, and you can add custom modules to kernel. I've never been deep into kernel hacking, other than applying a few patches every now and then.
Do you think it would be possible to exploit the open source nature of Android, to have compiled code access to hardware? I was thinking about developing software at the kernel level, using low level access, and then exposing a certain amount of control to UI layer.
Do you think this approach as a possible alternative to native access to device hardware (apis), as in IPhone and windows mobile?
I am not worried about deploying my code to other phones, these will be projects for personal purposes only, but I would like to know if I can find a way of squeezing performance of the say, HTC Hero to the max by using native code, rather than Java.
For a more solid example, how would you go ahead if you were to start a project for porting VLC Player to HTC hero? Would you say this is not possible?
Kind regards
Seref
Some peoples compiled mplayer for android probably helpful for your decision
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=575500&highlight=mplayer
Windows 8 will move to UEFI replacing the ageing BIOS, other modern OS's uses UEFI including the ARM version of the OS.
Is it possible to develop UEFI boot loader for the XOOM , it would be very cool if this is possible.
In fact I am waiting for the first Win8 ARM to leak .. and it will be very cool to test it in a real tablet
Thanks for the tidbit, there was nothing about UEFI in the mainstream blogs, but Goog search dug it up.
http://www.computeractive.co.uk/ca/news/2075486/windows-dont-choose-tablet-desktop
As a geek, I'm more interested in the plumbings than the GUI stuff. One item of interest to me is whether Win8 will be available in discrete form, ie as a standalone retail version that can be installed on any compatible device, or only in device-bound form (ie OEM version). Its value would be greatly enhanced if it's in a standalone, installable version.
That's what I don't like about Android at present. It's actually less "portable" than Windows, since every device needs to have its own "ROM," which means you're dependent on the vendor's whims (or friendly hackers) for updates. It's rather byzantine, a lot like the CP/M ills of old, where each manufacturer had its own proprietary version.
With respect to the introduced Win8 GUI, I noted that the integration of the tile-based Metro UI into the traditional mouse/KB UI isn't very elegant, aesthetically speaking. To be fair, it's not an easy task, and MS didn't have the luxury of time. WP7's Metro + Win7 UI was the obvious route, and unsurprisingly that's the route they took. I'm interested in how the touch UI translate to the mouse/KB interface, and vice versa.
BTW, I think the x86 version of Win8 will get the most attention, since backward compatibility with existing Win/Lin apps is intact. Unless Oak Trail turns out to be a real dog, Intel will have its moment in the sun.
e.mote said:
That's what I don't like about Android at present. It's actually less "portable" than Windows, since every device needs to have its own "ROM," which means you're dependent on the vendor's whims (or friendly hackers) for updates.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lolwut?
Windows has exactly the same problem if you want to run it on different hardware, it's just hidden to the end user because Micosoft bundles everything into an inocuous looking package.
Windows also has the luxury of running on very narrowly scope/defined hardware that they have had deep influence in designing.
>Windows has exactly the same problem if you want to run it on different hardware
Hardware for Windows have their own abstraction layer in the form of a BIOS/UEFI. Windows binaries are universal across devices. Hardware is generally interfaced through user-installable drivers.
These don't (yet) exist for Android, where each device has its own specifically-compiled binaries. Since vendors have their tweaks to the source code, no two droid devices are the same. It's a nightmare for both users and devs. Hence the fragmentation outcry.
Take this forum as a microcosm. HC 3.1 is out, but users can't upgrade to it until the vendors get around to updating their vendor-specific (and region-specific) firmware. Contrast this to a Win service pack.
Windows sucks in many ways, but the one factor in its dominance is that if you buy a Win app, you can be reasonably certain that it will run on most any PC. If you buy a peripheral, you can be reasonably certain that it can be installed on most any PC.
It's a bit unfair since Android is still in its diapers. Hey, it just got USB host in 3.1. Then again, ain't no such thing as "fair" competition. Android will have to grow up in a hurry.
Pundits like to harp on the iOS-vs-Android angle. The reality is that Apple will always be a niche player because of its closed-ecosys philosophy. No single company, no matter how great, can create enough choice for the majority of user wants. The real fight will be between Android and Windows.
Personally, I'm cheering on Linux, which can coattail Windows' standardization onto the new tablet platform. Lin never had a real chance of uprooting Win on the desktop, or as we've seen, even on netbooks. Win was too entrenched. Tabs will be a fresh new opportunity for Linux, and we'll see if Ubuntu & Co can take advantage.
Ok first of I understand the nature of Android, Fragmentation asside genuinely why can't we unlock our phones bootloader? What is the reason? Like the reason a sales rep would give you would obviously be much different then say what a tech would know, so what is the true reason and Android device isn't like a PC for example? Thank you
Verizon policy. To say much more is just speculation unless you were a part of that policy making process, or have access to the documentation on the decision.
jayman94fly said:
...so what is the true reason and Android device isn't like a PC for example? Thank you
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's really good question. Smartphones are basically PCs and yes could be made without OS and let user to install any compatible OS. Of course, hardware vendors must provide drivers or OS vendor have to make generic ones.
In the previous sentence is hidden answer to your question. Driver/libs are usually closed source and vendors do not wish to provide them as for Windows for example. Many of them not providing for Linux as well. And Android is based on Linux. So in short, business politic (read money) is the answer.
Also, many Android vendors like to modify Android to provide better (usually opposite) user experience, change kernel (should release source according Linux kernel license) and so on.
Android right now is mess, pretty much as Linux with so many distributions. Google is trying to fix that moving core functionality to closed source play service but that makes another problem (notice closed source).