Database Users

Rom Kitchen and ROM Usage

I have searched around but can't seem to find the exact answer to this question. I apologize if it has been covered and I missed it.
When I use a ROMKitchen, yours or Yorch's, there are optional software I can choose to add. When I do so it gives me a memory usage indicator. For example, with the 4_00_05 I currently have, Yorch asys I have 3.9 megs of space to put software in. I understand that there is 15 for Rom and 15 for RAM, RAM being what I get to use as a user.
I install almost every software program onto a storage card. The only device memory I use is the stuff various software put onto the device by default.
My question is, If I don't put any extra software, will I gain any extra space on the device? either for running program space or anything else?
Or am I just wasting the 3.9 megs I'm alotted.
Thanks,
Matt

Hi ...
There is difference between the flash ROM and RAM.
The flash ROM is usually of a fixed size of 32 MB (for XDA I at least), it's used to store the system and any ROM application code like those you select to add while cooking the ROM.
When the system starts, CE will use part of the RAM to run in addition to any other application you will run by your self. Hence, the RAM is managed by CE to be allocated for either "running" CE and applications, and the rest is for storing the DATA like e-mails, cashe files, contacts, ...etc. The RAM size can vary from 32 MB up to 128 MB
When you install non-ROM application, if you decide to install it to the device memory it will be installed to the RAM in the programs portion which will decrease the available amount of memory for either "running" applications or stored data. If it's installed on SD card, it will save the space of the code but will still run in the RAM.
So, the answer to your question is YES, you should make the max use of the available space in ROM.

Load up as many progs as possible into the rom, it saves your program/storage ram and the programs in rom cannot be lost by hard reset, if you dont use the available space in rom then it is a waste of space.

Was just wondering, but does the 'permanent save' feature require me leave some space for it on the ROM? or is that saved yet somewhere else?

Man! This is GREAT!
I hope I am not mistaken, but, if I COOK a ROM with ALL my favorite programs, I save on space (than when I install it separately), since extra space on ROM is wasted anyways?
I didnt know that!

drean said:
Was just wondering, but does the 'permanent save' feature require me leave some space for it on the ROM? or is that saved yet somewhere else?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This uses a seperate area of flash storage as far as I know.

still no easy way to build our rom without unix & a lot of retuals needed to create it! right? i understand there is a tool for XDA2 but not XDA1 which could be great

1.60a upgrade questions

Hey all!
I am currently running on 1.50i.96 and am looking at upgrading to 1.60a. I dont seem to need much of on device storage space really, so i guess i'd atleast have the persistent memory benefit from 1.60a (correct me if am wrong here!)
I just unlocked my extended rom. I have a bunch of files sitting in it. The question is, can i back these files up on my computer, and get rid of it to free up space? Would that cause any problems during a hard reset or something?
The next question, how do i install the RAMDisk? Where can i find the installer for the same? Are there any procedures i'd need to follow to set my RAM disk size?
Thanks so very much!
San

i've a question fot you :
Have you read the posts about wm2005 rom in this forum ?
the 1.60 rom have 180 Mb of ram (volatile) and 14.5 Mb of Storage (persistant)
The Extended rom is NOT used by wm2005 , you can totally erase the extended rom and install all you want ....
You can install ramdisk on 1.60 rom but it's non-persistant .
persistant = : if you remove battery , content of persistant memory stay ....
non-persistant = : if you remove battery , content of non-persistant memory don't stay !!

thanks for your inputs TofClock.
I am aware of the fact that the ram disk is not persistent...the word "ram"disk is clear enough!
But i need the ram disk "just in case"...i thought it would make better sense to start using 1.60a only when i'm sure i can get more space in case i need it sometime later...for now 32 megs seems good enough though...
TofClock, by any chance could you mail me the ramdisk cab file ?? Heres my mail address...
[email protected]
Thanks again!
San

hmm...
well 1.60a has:
128MB Program memory
14.5MB Storage memory as system root
16MB ExtendedROM usable as storage
You cannot install RAMDisk on this version of ROM.
Well you can, but it will cause conflicts in the OS.
If you need more storage space, get yourself 1.50i.xx, where xx stands for amount of Program memory.
buzz

Thanks for your reply Buzz!
when I use 1.60a, I'd totally have 16MB+16MB of persistent storage right?
the question is, where do all the common files (DLLs etc.), contacts, messages etc. get installed/saved onto? One of the 16meg partitions right? My main worry is that all these common files, contacts etc. might exceed the 16meg partition that the OS is using...correct or would it??
I'd want persistent storage mainly, and as long as I can install a couple hundred megs of apps onto my storage card, I'm just fine!
thanks again big time
San

Advantages of Rom-Cooking

Hello,
since my artemis seems to get lower on performance as I used up Main Storage, I wonder what effect it would have if I try to cook my used apps into the rom.
Is it right, that I can compile any software into rom? what would be max rom-size? what for then I find cabs in extended rom? Are Programms using less Storage if they are compiled into Rom?

if programs are located in rom they dont use any storage rom only app mem unless they use temp files which use storage
extented run are just cab files which are auto installed to storage so it dont help you at all

...Sorry, I am not sure, if I really got your message.
First ROM itself stands for (read only memory), that is defenitively storage.
I guess I am lacking knowledge about storage architekture. As I know from that 128 MB rom Dice, I always get some 46mb main Storage for Installing Programs, or saving my Phone-Contacts etc.....
I thought that remaining space, is dependent from whats inside my Rom, whatelse for would it make sence to put free storage below any self-cooked rom available on this forum?
The interesting stuff would be, what kind of programs I can compile into any rom, what would be the exact effect?

ROM sizes - max ROM size / maximum ROM size

First of all Happy New Year to all of you!
I'm going to cook some roms in the next few days and was wondering what the max working ROM size is. I want to build a ROM with as much apps as possible. Are there any known problems if I use up almost all the ROM space? I remember that there was this "not enough free memory" bug in one of the B&B or Meschle's ROMs. That actually happened although his ROM was extra-small I think.
And talking about the max. size why not talk about all the sizes. I read that the minimum size is a little over 50 MB. In theory there should be 128 MB available, right?
UPDATE: This is what I found out, no need to read the entire thread. I flashed a lot and coud reach a maximum of 65.546 KB, 65802 was too much for it. This ROM included ONLY the OS, I was able to flash a 20 MB Ext. ROM, maybe even larger is possible but doesn't make any sense to me. The RadioROM and the other stuff uses space too, that's the reason why you can't use 128 MB for your ROMs.

Registerme said:
First of all Happy New Year to all of you!
I'm going to cook some roms in the next few days and was wondering what the max working ROM size is. I want to build a ROM with as much apps as possible. Are there any known problems if I use up almost all the ROM space? I remember that there was this "not enough free memory" bug in one of the B&B or Meschle's ROMs. That actually happened although his ROM was extra-small I think.
And talking about the max. size why not talk about all the sizes. I read that the minimum size is a little over 50 MB. In theory there should be 128 MB available, right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If I'm not mistaken WM5 and 6 use persistent strorage - hence ROM is used for storing apps and data, whereas RAM is used for running apps and 'volatile' data. This was different in WM2003se earlier, as RAM was used for both installing apps and running apps and data. ROM was only used for the OS, and for 'built-in-storage', which was like a RAM drive (or ROM drive !!!).
So if you filled up your ROM (extended ROM) with apps, you'd not be able to install anything as there would be no space left. Correct me if I'm wrong.
PS that's why carrier's extended ROMs are only a couple of megs

Thanx for that info, but that's what I'm planning to do. Create a ROM with all the apps that I need so I don't need to install anything later.
I was only wondering because most ROMs seem to be about 50 MB in size but there is only 50 MB free space left to use. Doesn't the Artemis have 128 MB ROM?

Registerme said:
Thanx for that info, but that's what I'm planning to do. Create a ROM with all the apps that I need so I don't need to install anything later.
I was only wondering because most ROMs seem to be about 50 MB in size but there is only 50 MB free space left to use. Doesn't the Artemis have 128 MB ROM?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, the atermis has 64mb ram and 128mb rom. I don't know if other space is reserved for the radio rom and the bootlooder etc. I expect that's the case. Good luck with building your ROM, please let me know how you get on.. my email is greenleef (at) talk21 (dot) com if you get a chance.
I want to build an extended ROM too, put all of my cabs in there. I'm just worried about using up valuable application storage space. But then again I install most larger apps to my storage card. What tools do you use, and do you need to CID unlock it first? I'm running the stock WM6 rom from 02.

I use Hyper Core Kitchen, Cook-Your-LLT, OK Package Creator 5.4 and BuildDSM. I also use UPX4PPC to shrink the .exe and .dll files on my pda and then copy the shrinked files back to the packages. I'm still working on that. You only need to use CID unlock if you have a CID locked ROM on your device.
I've succesfully created my first ROMs, 65 MB seems to be the maximum for the OS file, I tried a 20 MB extended ROM that worked out kinda ok. I must have made some mistake because the files installed but nothing was there afterwards to use. I think I might unlock the ext rom and use it as storage space, it's easier that way.

Registerme said:
I tried a 20 MB extended ROM that worked out kinda ok.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting, but - what for? If you use ExtROM, you reserve space for installers, and even more valuable storage space would be occupied for installed executables and data files.
Perhaps you can achieve better results installing programs from (and maybe - to) microSD card. At least, easier to manage, than reflashing ExtROM.
Anothe side effect: when I install programs to SD Card, after flashing it is enough to copy several .lnk files - and those programs are ready to use, without running installers.
In my opinion, ExtROM is a place for patching OS or keeping very necessary programs, which you could not inject into OS for some reason. Nothing more.

That's what I use my ext rom for, I put my system tools and other programs in there that don't fit in the os-rom. Those are tools I always use and that I haven't deleted in years, so I thought it would be a good idea to have them on my device in case my sd card ever dies or I have to do a hard reset.

Registerme said:
That's what I use my ext rom for, I put my system tools and other programs in there that don't fit in the os-rom. Those are tools I always use and that I haven't deleted in years, so I thought it would be a good idea to have them on my device in case my sd card ever dies or I have to do a hard reset.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I like the idea of having apps and cabs in extrom, If I can figure it all out I plan to do it. I still use Cabinstall from 2003se on my Dell axim, as I find CABS going missing after i install them. I use PIM backup for PIM, and SPB backup for cloning my working rom with manually installed apps. All big apps go on storage card, which usually don't need registry keys so they're happy run from there - even TOMTOM6.
As far as my MicroSD giving up on me, I use symantec ghost, take an image of my SD every couple of weeks, and leave the image on my laptop.
One thing I really would like to do - remove all the useless .exes and things from my image... If I can free up 10meg from my ROM, I could unlock the extROM and use it as a storage area like you mention.... I think ROM is a lot faster than SD....

Problem with Device Memory (Lack Of) on HD2

I have a very puzzling problem. When I first got the HD2 I installed a few cabs directly to the device. Due to this the device memory very rapidly became used up, which resulted in me having to delete some stuff and re-install to the 2GB SD card. Following this, I think I had about 25mb of free Device Storage on the phone. I now only install cabs etc direct to SD card, today I have roughly 1.4GB of free space on the card.
Imagine my dismay, therefore, when today, having installed 4 or 5 cabs, one being somewhere in the region of 44mb, I'm now completely out of device memory, even though I've installed directly to SD card. My device memory is now showing 0.00mb and I'm constantly getting the annoying 'low storage space' messages.
Any help would be much appreciated.

edit: The 44 mb cab I mentioned has not been installed to phone as apparently it won't let me due to lack of device memory, even tho I'm trying to install to SD card???

Also, when I go into Remove Program setting, all the cabs etc which I've installed from day 1 are listed there, no mystery there! Thing I don't understand is that they are all listed as being installed to phone internal memory. Even though when installed I specifically selected Storage Card and NOT device memory.
What's going on??

Anyone got any info on this please?

Does the SD Card have a program files directory, and are your apps there?

I'd very much like to point the OP to the EDIT button at the bottom of your posts... use that instead of spamming your own thread
Anyway, keep in mind some things:
- some devices come with a lot of useless stuff preinstalled, that steals precious internal memory free space
- some cabs may decide to copy their files over to internal memory even if you choose to install to SD card, depending on how they have been set during creation
- you can have a larger free space by flashing a "clean" custom rom, with base WM, manila, and nothing else, and easily add only the apps you really need (the rom I use in signature is one of those, unless you are on a 1024LEO in which case it would brick your phone)
- unless you install heavy apps (44mb is usually for bigdictionaries, encyclopedias, or images collections, in which case SD is the way to go) most apps SHOULD be installed in internal memory for various reasons

Bravoexo said:
Does the SD Card have a program files directory, and are your apps there?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thx for reply.
Yes, and the files which I installed today, and now deleted, were in the program files on the SD Card, but it still impacted on device memory. I've now deleted the files I put on today but device memory is only indicating just over 3mb available. Prior to today I'm sure I had about 25mb free. Don't understand it??

ephestione said:
I'd very much like to point the OP to the EDIT button at the bottom of your posts... use that instead of spamming your own thread
Anyway, keep in mind some things:
- some devices come with a lot of useless stuff preinstalled, that steals precious internal memory free space
- some cabs may decide to copy their files over to internal memory even if you choose to install to SD card, depending on how they have been set during creation
- you can have a larger free space by flashing a "clean" custom rom, with base WM, manila, and nothing else, and easily add only the apps you really need (the rom I use in signature is one of those, unless you are on a 1024LEO in which case it would brick your phone)
- unless you install heavy apps (44mb is usually for bigdictionaries, encyclopedias, or images collections, in which case SD is the way to go) most apps SHOULD be installed in internal memory for various reasons
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thx for the above tip re: edit button. I didn't know you could use it to add to your own thread. I do now so won't be making that mistake again.
I take on board what you say and thx for your various points.
I just think that if you have an SD card, why not use it instead of cramming up the precious internal memory? Prior to today I had approx. 25mb free internal space. This went to zero internal space after I installed a few apps. I inadvertently installed one of the apps on to internal memory instead of SD card, so this would have obviously had an impact. The 44mb cab was the Ferrari GT game I came across today. In any case I've now deleted everything I installed today. But I now only have just above 3mb of free internal space even tho I've soft resetted a few times as well. This is what I don't understand?

RoN_HD2 said:
Thx for the above tip re: edit button. I didn't know you could use it to add to your own thread. I do now so won't be making that mistake again.
I take on board what you say and thx for your various points.
I just think that if you have an SD card, why not use it instead of cramming up the precious internal memory? Prior to today I had approx. 25mb free internal space. This went to zero internal space after I installed a few apps. I inadvertently installed one of the apps on to internal memory instead of SD card, so this would have obviously had an impact. The 44mb cab was the Ferrari GT game I came across today. In any case I've now deleted everything I installed today. But I now only have just above 3mb of free internal space even tho I've soft resetted a few times as well. This is what I don't understand?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My current rom leaves 250+MB free after flash, just to give you an idea.
Internal memory is way faster than the microsd, that's why you want to install apps there unless they are huge. Anyway, since games are not usually ment to stay on the device forever, but more like until you finish them to uninstall, you could give them a go in the internal memory as well.
If you still have space taken after uninstalling, download and install totalcommander (to internal memory obviously ) and check under \Program Files\ to see if there are folders of old uninstalled programs still in memory. If there are any, delete them.
If your stock rom is a bloated one from your carrier, take into consideration the idea of flashing a clean custom rom, if you have the means to reflash the original rom back on in case you ever need warranty servicing

ephestione said:
My current rom leaves 250+MB free after flash, just to give you an idea.
Internal memory is way faster than the microsd, that's why you want to install apps there unless they are huge. Anyway, since games are not usually ment to stay on the device forever, but more like until you finish them to uninstall, you could give them a go in the internal memory as well.
If you still have space taken after uninstalling, download and install totalcommander (to internal memory obviously ) and check under \Program Files\ to see if there are folders of old uninstalled programs still in memory. If there are any, delete them.
If your stock rom is a bloated one from your carrier, take into consideration the idea of flashing a clean custom rom, if you have the means to reflash the original rom back on in case you ever need warranty servicing
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm on the stock UK o2 ROM 1.43 which is garbage. Still waiting for o2 to release an update My phone prior to this was the Samsung i900 Omnia which, once upon a time, I attempted to flash with the help and advice of some MoDaCo forum users. Basically I screwed up and had to send the phone to a Samsung Repair Centre. My point is I'm not totally clued up re: flashing/updating ROMs etc. However, I do realise at some point I'm gonna need to get my head screwed on and give it another try. If only to keep the phone up to date etc.