Webcam and touchscreen+Onenote performance

Webcam and touchscreen+Onenote performance - Shift General

I'm a guy who is unfortunate enough to be carrying around a notebook computer most of the time for work and is starting to get a bad neck so am starting to look for a serious alternative. I've been following the HTC SHIFT discussion and reviews avidly but unfortunately till now I have been unable to get the answers which I seek. I hope one of you can help me with this problem.
I generally use my notebook for 5 tasks and I need to ascertain whether the HTC SHIFT is up to these tasks before committing to one (otherwise I'm going to use the same money and get a Dell XPS)
1. Web video call with MSN Live Messenger - does the SHIFT offer adequate performance with its webcam/processor power/memory capacity to perform this properly?
2. Note taking - I've never used a tablet PC before, so does the Touchscreen/OneNote combination actually usable? For example, the Notes program on WM5/6 is NOT useable in work situations: The width of the pen "nib" draws a line that is too thick on the screen, the ink appears late on the "paper", causing a disconcerting delay effect, and the screen on PDAs is too small for this purpose.
3. Since this is an INTERNET device, I would be installing the relevant security programs on it, e.g. resident antivirus, antispyware and firewall programs. With an 800MHz processor and only 1GB of RAM running VISTA, would I still have a usable computer? I'm only talking about EXCEL/WORD/POWERPOINT/ONENOTE/WMP/YOUTUBE type usage.
4. Powerpointing - I believe the SHIFT would be perfect for this, with its VGA output and small size.
5. Internet browsing - as I understand there has been no problems with speed whilst browsing
It would be incredibly appreciated if those of you who own this device or have a test device or have tested the device to give me any information!
Thanks

I've not used MSN Messenger but have used it with LCS and performance seems fine.
Note taking with OneNote seems to also be ok but you won't want to have too many applications running in the background. I'm keeping mine to the bare min really and concentrating on Office 2007 products (with the exception of Visio. I comes with an AV product but I've replaced it with McAfee and that seems to be ok. Using it with Outlook 2007, Word Excel PPt etc its really only large or multiple files that seem to cause serious lag.

Alan,
Sorry, just to clarify, do you think that Onenote/inking capabilities are acceptable on the Shift, as I've read elsewhere that they're not up to much?
Cheers
Squiggs

Related

O2 XDA Exec - One Very Simple Owner. A Few queries...

Morning All
Have just discovered this website, and frankly it terrifies me.
I have been wallowing in shame since purchasing the Exec because I have no idea what I can do to improve it. I have been trying to read as many posts as possible, but even though some posts are written so "my wife could understand it...", it is still a little complex for me.
A few things I would like to do:
Get rid of the delay on flipping from Landscape to Portrait.
Get rid of the awful buttons down the left hand side and the gap at the bottom of the Landscape screen so I can actually utilise the full screen.
Get SBP Diary working propoerly when the screen flips (never seems to fit)
Make WMP 10 to swow my movies in full screen rather than postage stamp size.
I am a man of very simple tastes. I want to watch a movie or play Tiger Woods on the train on the way to work.
I want to run WeatherPanel (Marsware) without it crashing and requiring a soft reset every so often. I would also ike it to operate full screen.
I want to keep a note of my battery performance and some international time zones.
On my XDA 2 I used to run:
Battery Pack
Journal Bar
Neither seem to work on the Exec without sucking all the memory out of it.
I run Town Compass Bartender Drinks and Pocket Stars. I run A-Z viewer and Pocket Streets. All of these are from my memory Card (1GB)
I rarely use the internet, but like to check a few scores, especially when abroad - can this be sped up?
From all the above, you will see that I am quite a simpleton - amongst other things - but am I beyond saving?
I was sent the latest ROM upgrade by O2. Should I do it? Will it help, or is there another upgrade that will stop my moaning?
Oh, lastly, I understand very little jargon and need everything spelled out as if to a 3 year old (with little PPC experience)
Please , please help. If for no other reason than it is Friday and that makes you happy.
Kindest regards
Rich

Use pocket dvd studio or virtual dub to resize your video to 640x480 to get fullscreen

Use pocket dvd studio or virtual dub to resize your video to 640x480 to get fullscreen

I found the best 2 suggestions for my XDA picked up here were:
Hard-reset and select the corporate install and leave out some of the slow O2 customisation.
Make sure no today plugin is calculating & displaying the space on the SD card - this can cause significant delays the switch between portrait/landscape .
I did upgrade the rom (same as a hard-reset but can be a bit more nerve wracking for some). I think some had problems as the document mentions turning the phone back on but did not say turn it off first. I turned phone/bluetooth/wireless off before upgrading an it went smoothly.
When I upgraded I noted all the actions in Notepad, with serial numbers and registry edits etc. Found this usefull when the OZvga stuff screwed up and I had to hard-reset again!
Steve

Brilliant - Now have internet probs though - any idea why??
Thanks Stevie
Have managed to do this whilst at work and even though I have had limited time to play with it, it has improved a thousand fold.
Beggars the question why they bother to fill the system with all that rubbish in the first place.
Only problem is now I seem unable to connect to the internet. Admittedly this may have something to do with my work PC, but it is saying that GPRS 3G wont connect either.
Do you have any suggestions??
Whiggy - will get this and am sure to be overflowing with gratitude over the weekend
Have a grear weekend all.
Rich

I think the settings for o2 are in the customised stuff but check back through the threads as the question has been asked a few times on the correct settings - one of the other members guided me through the MMS settings. I think there may be a cab file as well with just the o2 connection settings on it.
Search for 02 connection setting or something like that.
Steve

I too had the same problem with Internet Explorer when i installed my Exec in Corporate Mode. I found this cab file somewhere on the Forum, can't remember or find where so have re-attached it.
With this cab file installed (it does not install any of the O2 rubbish that you don't want, only the connection settings to allow you to use GPRS & UMTS)
When prompted you need to select personal mode, to ensure that the file installs properly.
Hope this helps :lol:

On SPB Diary screen not fitting...find out the size that works for you for each screen orientation, then edit registry:-
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE/SOFTWARE/Spb Software House/Spb Diary/TotalHeight - for Portrait mode,
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE/SOFTWARE/Spb Software House/Spb Diary/TotalHeightL - for Landscape mode
Sorted!

if you are having problems with the connection to internet and phone connections, let us know your provider and am sure we can post the cab file so that you can just install that feature.
otherwise, install total commander for a file explorer
path it to \extended_rom\ and find the file for your communication provider and run just that one cab file.

mms connections cab file here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?p=205766#205766

For a few other comments to your initial question as i am bored and sitting here debating going to bed.... I Know, read item 2/3 of the initial post, but I am going to break the rule and type in upper case to seperate my comments from the original, I AM NOT SHOUTING.....
Get rid of the delay on flipping from Landscape to Portrait.
FIXING SOME OF THESE OTHER ITEMS WILL LEAD TO THIS, BUT CORPORATE INSTALL FOR 02 AS I READ IT IS YOUR ONLY CHOICE, HARD RESET, START AGAIN.
Get rid of the awful buttons down the left hand side and the gap at the bottom of the Landscape screen so I can actually utilise the full screen.
I THINK THIS IS THE RETAIL CONSUMER CRAP THAT COMES WITH O2 AS I DONT HAVE IT ON THE IMATE. REFER ABOVE POINT.
Get SBP Diary working propoerly when the screen flips (never seems to fit)
MINE WORKS PERFECTLY, LOOK AT YOUR FONTS. SEND A SCREEN SHOT SO THAT I CAN SEE WHAT YOU MEAN BY DOESNT FIT.
Make WMP 10 to swow my movies in full screen rather than postage stamp size.
KNOWN BUG, ANTICIPATING A FIX. USING TCPMP AVAILABLE FREE ON THE WEB SHOULD PROVIDE AN ALTERNATIVE APP FOR WATCHING VIDEOS IN FULL SCREEN.
I want to run WeatherPanel (Marsware) without it crashing and requiring a soft reset every so often. I would also ike it to operate full screen.
NEVER HEARD OF IT, I USE SPB WEATHER PERFECTLY.
I want to keep a note of my battery performance and some international time zones.
USE THE CLOCK FOR ONE TIME ZONE, BUT IF MORE THAN THAT YOU CAN USE MOBIMATE PROFESSIONAL I THINK IT IS.
On my XDA 2 I used to run:
Battery Pack
Journal Bar
GET RID OF BOTH IN MY VIEW, BOTH ARE CRAP. JOURNAL BAR WILL KILL YOUR SPEED. I DOWNLOADED THEM TRIED THEM, USED THEM, WENT BACK TO SPB AND USE RSS FEEDERS OR SYNC'D PAGES TO KEEP UP. ALSO, I DONT THINK JOURNAL BAR IS ACTUALLY WM5 COMPATIBLE, NOT MY CALL ON THAT ONE.
Neither seem to work on the Exec without sucking all the memory out of it.
AS MENTIONED, GET RID OF THEM THEY ARE SUCKING THE CRAP OUT OF IT.
I run Town Compass Bartender Drinks and Pocket Stars. I run A-Z viewer and Pocket Streets. All of these are from my memory Card (1GB)
NEVER HEARD OF THEM. JUST CAUSE THEY ARE ON THE MEMORY CARD DOESNT MEAN THAT WHEN YOU HAVE USED THEM, THEY CORRECTLY GIVE ALL THE MEMORY THEY WERE USING BACK. SOME DO, MOST DONT, AND SOME JUST HOG IT AND GIVE ONLY A FEW KB'S BACK. MEASURE THERE PERFORMANCE WHEN YOU USE THEM PREFERABLY AFTER SOFT RESETS.
THERE IS A COUPLE OF LITTLE TINY APPS AVAILABLE THAT ARE SLIGHTLY SUCCESSFUL IN FORCING APPLICATIONS TO RELEASE MEMORY AND GIVE IT BACK, BUT AGAIN, ONLY SLIGHTLY SUCCESSFUL.
I rarely use the internet, but like to check a few scores, especially when abroad - can this be sped up?
FIND A WEBSITE THAT PROVIDES THIS INFORMATION, PLACE IT INTO YOUR MOBILE FAVOURITES ON YOUR COMPUTER, SET IT UP TO AUTOMATICALLY SYNC TO YOUR PC MACHINE, THEN SYNC THAT DATA TO YOUR PDA. DISABLE ALL PHONE COMMUNICATIONS WHEN REVIEWING TO STOP IT GOING TO THE WEB TO GET THE DATA AND FORCE IT TO LOOK ON YOUR MACHINE FOR THE INFORMATION.

I'll offer my thoughts on the questions you ask with which I've had some experience...
Richie Blue said:
Get rid of the delay on flipping from Landscape to Portrait.
Get rid of the awful buttons down the left hand side and the gap at the bottom of the Landscape screen so I can actually utilise the full screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The default O2 software will slow your machine down spectacularly. Do a hard reset and choose 'Basic' mode (not corporate). Basic mode doesn't install all the O2 crap, but DOES install the connection settings for you, so you can access the internet and stuff. Later, when you're an expert like all of us (NOT! ) you can/should choose Corporate mode and then install your chosen CAB files yourself.
Another thing to do to speed up your Exec is to turn off Error Reporting and Incoming Beams. You'll find these items in the Settings pages.
Richie Blue said:
Make WMP 10 to swow my movies in full screen rather than postage stamp size.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd ignore Whiggy's suggestion of resizing all your movies :roll: , and I'd do what Simon_Darley suggested: install TCPMP which is a free media player that works perfectly in full screen. (Google for 'TCPMP'.) The full-screen problem is a known bug in WMP which they'll hopefully fix in due course. Resizing all your movies to 640x480 seems like a lot of hassle and a waste of disk space when TCPMP plays them just fine.
Richie Blue said:
I want to keep a note of my battery performance and some international time zones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's a fantastic free battery meter that someone posted in another thread on this forum and which I'm using with no problems. If I can find it I'll add it to the bottom of this post. SPB Pocket Plus has a battery meter, but PP slows the Exec down so much that I uninstalled it.
If I want to know a world time I use the built-in clock application, which works for me.
Richie Blue said:
On my XDA 2 I used to run:
Battery Pack
Journal Bar
Neither seem to work on the Exec without sucking all the memory out of it.
I run Town Compass Bartender Drinks and Pocket Stars. I run A-Z viewer and Pocket Streets. All of these are from my memory Card (1GB)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are lots of programs available that claim to be WM5 compatible, but they're not. They'll do more to slow your Exec down and make it unstable than anything else you can do. Choose your programs carefully, and test your machine after each installation to check whether it's slowed the thing down.
After doing this I decided that I can live with almost all the default MS apps, but add extras that I use occasionally, like TomTom, ListPro and TCPMP. Anything running all the time (like a Today plugin) or anything that replaces the PIM (contacts & calendar) could cause you big problems.
I personally disagree fully with the theory that people in these forums often quote, of using a task switcher to force the closure of running programs (instead of allowing Windows to minimise them). MS designed the OS to handle memory itself, and my machine works perfectly when I allow this to happen.
Richie Blue said:
I rarely use the internet, but like to check a few scores, especially when abroad - can this be sped up?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A word of caution in case you haven't tried this yet: GPRS usage abroad costs a bloody fortune (as a friend found out after a week in New York in which he checked his emails from time to time, leaving himself with an £80 bill when he got home...)
Richie Blue said:
From all the above, you will see that I am quite a simpleton - amongst other things - but am I beyond saving?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
:lol: Not a simpleton; just a newbie. We all were once at the beginning. Soon you'll be hacking and tweaking like the rest of us and you'll be helping the newcomers too.
Good luck!

Found the simple battery meter:
http://www.pocketpcfreeware.com/en/index.php?soft=1382
It works perfectly, doesn't slow the machine down and is free!

Some questions to all you seasoned mobile warriors

So far I have been a lurker in this forum reading lots of posts regarding the Universal. I have not bitten the bullet yet (i.e. ordered one) but I am tempted to do so. Before making my final decision I would appreciate some input from Universal users.
I am a heavy e-mail user and would use the Universal with a flat fee 3G subscription. My inbox is currently 1 GB and I was planning to get a large SD card and download all my e-mail to the device.
How well does Outlook function on the Universal when you have large inboxes?
How long does it take to browse and search among e-mails, seconds or minutes?
How long does it take to open attachments of normal size (i.e. 300 kB)?
Are the pocket versions of Office usable on the Universal i.e. is it feasible to browse spreadsheets and view word-files or does screen size / CPU speed or other factors prevent the Universal from being effectively used as a micro-laptop?
Can one browse regular webpages (not wappages) successfully with the available browsers or does screen size / CPU speed / lack of plug-in support etc. prevent the Universal from being practically used for regular web browsing?
Finally, is it possible to play XVID rips with "regular" size (i.e. a movie is either 700MB or 2x700MB) without dropping frames on the Universal?
I realize that my questions (and possible answers) are subjective to a large extent. However, it is your subjective opinion on the usability of the Universal that I want!

jketzetera said:
So far I have been a lurker in this forum reading lots of posts regarding the Universal. I have not bitten the bullet yet (i.e. ordered one) but I am tempted to do so. Before making my final decision I would appreciate some input from Universal users.
I am a heavy e-mail user and would use the Universal with a flat fee 3G subscription. My inbox is currently 1 GB and I was planning to get a large SD card and download all my e-mail to the device.
How well does Outlook function on the Universal when you have large inboxes?
How long does it take to browse and search among e-mails, seconds or minutes?
How long does it take to open attachments of normal size (i.e. 300 kB)?
Are the pocket versions of Office usable on the Universal i.e. is it feasible to browse spreadsheets and view word-files or does screen size / CPU speed or other factors prevent the Universal from being effectively used as a micro-laptop?
Can one browse regular webpages (not wappages) successfully with the available browsers or does screen size / CPU speed / lack of plug-in support etc. prevent the Universal from being practically used for regular web browsing?
Finally, is it possible to play XVID rips with "regular" size (i.e. a movie is either 700MB or 2x700MB) without dropping frames on the Universal?
I realize that my questions (and possible answers) are subjective to a large extent. However, it is your subjective opinion on the usability of the Universal that I want!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is think, you should better bye a laptop

I already have an ultra-portable laptop, which I sit infront 10hrs / day. I thought that the Universal would make a nice compliment to my laptop for the remaining 14hrs ;-).

I have around 1300 emails in my inbox and can scroll up and down very quickly on my Universal. Pocket Outlook doesn't seem to have any search facilities though. I have Push Email configured (using the very latest o2 ROM) from Exchange 2003 and it works very well. I don't bother with attachments though so I can't comment on them.

graybo said:
I have around 1300 emails in my inbox and can scroll up and down very quickly on my Universal. Pocket Outlook doesn't seem to have any search facilities though. I have Push Email configured (using the very latest o2 ROM) from Exchange 2003 and it works very well. I don't bother with attachments though so I can't comment on them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is a search facility on all PPC that allows you to search through contacts, calender and messaging etc.
You can store attachments on a storage card, although the body of emails stays on the phone.
Word Mobile is OK but doesnt allow images - you just get a big X
Excel Mobile is good and allows some chart integration - doesnt offer all of the functionality that Excel XP does.
IE is good especially displayed in full screen and landscape at the smallest font size at the default view (instead of one column or desktop) Pages can sometimes take a while to appear due to the cpu chugging along - but is alot better than IE on say WM2003SE
Matt

Thanks for the input. Can you confirm the search facility on the Universal and give some details on it?

jketzetera said:
Thanks for the input. Can you confirm the search facility on the Universal and give some details on it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
By choosing search, you are presented with the following options:
All Data
Calender
Contacts
Excel Mobile
Help
Larger than 64kb
Messaging
Notes
Outlook Mobile
Tasks
Word Mobile
.....You just enter what it is you want to find and it will find it.
A program like Total Commander (Which is freeware and a replacement for File Explorer) contains options to find files and works better for file searching and allows for searching within files.
Basically - even if WM5 doesnt do something - there will be another app sometimes free that will enhance functionality.
Matt

To answer on the Xvid issue: never tried that but I am very sure you need to rip it down to a smaller (pixel- and file-) size to view it without choking.

How do you rate for G1 device?....Reviews Etc.

We're wonder what is people thinking about their G1 device... Please vote and write down your feeling on this new phone.

G1
What does work on this phone works very well. I feel though that this phone is more for developers and hobbyist. It's not quiet ready for guys like me that have very few skills. I hope the software situation gets worked out soon or this phone will end up with no real support just like the Iphone.

i agree, some great potential with this phone, enough to make it a class leader. we just need to see some of the most reported problems ironed out first. great os and hardware on the whole.

what are "mosy reported floors"

I LOVE this phone. Of course it has its problems(lack of camera options, lack of really interesting apps(though there were a hell of a lot of interesting ones added today...), cut and paste is a bit of a pain sometimes but they are all in the software and definitely will be fixed once the device is a little more mature. Considering this is a version 1.0 device and just came out a little over a month ago it's freaking amazing. Heck I've even had iphone users gawk at some of the things it can do like street view compass mode.

Love it!!
I've had (over the past 2 years) the mda, moto q, mogul, instinct, diamond and now the G1.
Windows mobile (mda/q/mogul/diamond), although very convenient, can and will give you a headache and a large pain in the @$$. Screens are usually too cluttered. Such a small screen size with so much stuff. Lag lag lagggggggg. Pocket Internet Explorer is only there for show and orb. Other than that I would recommend opera, netbrowser or skyfire. Functionality is the best feature winmo has. I had full access to my home computer (as long as it was connected to the internet). They are essentially what they are called, PPC's (Pocket PC's).
Instinct... should be set on fire along with all the people who created that POS. Make sure it is a slow roasting fire too. Very very poor smartphone. Good at making/receiving calls though.
The G1 can and will do everying the winmo phones do (minus the head ache... hopefully). All we need to be is patient or pitch in by learning programming.

i rated it very poor, i am very disappointed with the phone and google should be ashamed of themselves. the g1 can't do 1/10th of the things my wing did and my wing was a dog. android is worse than win ce when i first tried it on '03. thanks g1 for ruining my year. xda-devs, please get winmo on this asap.

Till now only 47 peoples vote... gogogo!
Till now only 47 peoples... gogogo! Tell people how do you think on G1~
We hope TMO can see this thread and improve it on next model if possible.

Good and Bad
I rated the phone as Neutral:
Things I like:
- GPS, Wireless are great
- Some cool apps
- Smooth Feel to the screen and it isn't jerky
- Contact List (very flexible for my needs)
- real tactile keyboard
- Maps
- ShopSavvy
Things I don't like:
- Small screen
- No auto-rotate (I know it works with chrooted systems)
- keyboard missing CTRL, PgUp/Down, Arrows (for shell commands)
- Internal Storage space is limited
- Lack of ability to store to SD Card
- The cumbersome headset included (why on earth keep the mic
- Not a true Open Source (I want root access)
Things that would make this phone rock:
- optional on-screen keyboard for simple input (ease up on the wear and tear of constantly having to flip to keyboard)
- piston operated hinges (i.e. slow the shock of closing/opening the keyboard)..opens fast but slows down right before it slams open/shut
- option for normal earpiece input (vice USB headset)
So I'm really mixed. I think a huge win (for me) is the ability to store on SD card (I run out of space all the time now) and having root access. That would put my satisfaction in the upper 90's. I'm sure I'm missing other pros/cons but that's a start for me.

I bought it recently, and am satisfied with it. The screen is very bright and responsive, the browser is very good and I can install my own apps on it without hassle <3
My first one had a squeaky sound to it so I got it exchanged. I have the white one, so it can be hard to see the buttons and some of the apps feel incomplete. Thankfully, I can download the source and mod them to my liking
RouterGuru said:
I rated the phone as Neutral:
Things that would make this phone rock:
- optional on-screen keyboard for simple input (ease up on the wear and tear of constantly having to flip to keyboard)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Aye, that annoys me as well, but the input API is is listed on the roadmap for Q1 09, so not too long now (hopefully).

Auto Rotate...?
Just curious if anyone concern about to disable " Auto Rotate " function once keyboard slide out.
Personally, I don't like it at all since sometime, I wish to browse the webpage on horziontal mode but only way is slide out the keyboard!
It is a $%^&*, why they just don't leave a function for user ON/OFF auto rotate ???

I give the phone itself a "very disappointed", the software "very good".
While much if the phone's problems are likely software, the squeaking and overall build quality are sub-par IMO. The battery life is horrid and, while software can fix some of it, the battery is rated very low, which begs me to ask why they spec'd such a tiny battery for a phone with these features.
The point is, I guess, that the phone itself has problems that cant be fixed with a update. The software, while lacking many simple things, at least can and will be eventually fixed.

For me the G1 is a very good start. The default packages and layouts need to be redone. For example. The contacts options don't offer enough input. Like... Birthdays, Anniversaries As well as maybe having IM support for the various default messengers on the g1 ie gtalk, aim etc.
Another Huge let down is the default SMS/MMS package where it does not allow you to forward and the standard options we have become accustomed to using devices such as WM6....
The picture viewer is the worst i have ever seen in my life. Currently I have over 5500 pictures on my SD card and the default viewer does not allow me to view by Directory or simply go into the folder and view that folder, instead it tries to Cache all 5500 pictures and well 35 mins + trying to cache all of them i close it. Also with so many pictures and thousands of names of files there is no option to View a picture and MMS it directly to a contact.
Syncing the phone. There is currently no support for outlook and well even when you export from outlook in CSV format and import into Google it always comes up half garbled with no pictures already saved for contacts. Also not correctly saving number types. IE from outlook if u save it as a mobile number so u can sms on a WM6 device once imported into google it lists it as a regular phone# and cant quickly create a sms to that user by (auto completing the name as you type.)
The only 2 things i have notice that Remember last view is the homescreen and the Applications menu. For instance if you go into your Apps management and uninstall an app. it sends you to the top of the list. The same goes with your Contacts, Directory views, Music library, Etc.
The default options for all applications are normally the same as in notification options. So if i am getting a Text, MMS, Email or what have you it is the same notification for every notification event.
There is no "task manager" to kill processes. IE an X button to close programs or access to kill process' and while Android is supposed to close programs on its own tell that to mine when i run the Browser or Myspace, Facebook, PacMac and close out of the screens and as time passes i wonder why my phone is running slow and open up the Task Switcher and see all of these running still.
There has been no porting of Office XXXX or Open Office to support excel, docx, and the like formats to android at this time yet.
While many people think that the G1 is a big let down and got it and got rid of it. Many of us see the potentional of its power and customization. So if enough of the users voice there dislikes about standard features you EXPECT and want on your device the better the chances that they will take notice.

ultraman69 said:
i rated it very poor, i am very disappointed with the phone and google should be ashamed of themselves. the g1 can't do 1/10th of the things my wing did and my wing was a dog. android is worse than win ce when i first tried it on '03. thanks g1 for ruining my year. xda-devs, please get winmo on this asap.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
your wing was a 4th generation Windows mobile device.... did you have windows CE or win2003 before you had your wing? it took windows ages to provide the flexability they offered in the wing yes we all are used to those basic things that the wing and such wm2005 and 2006 devices have on it but where your wrong is the G1 and Android has the ability with the current phone you OWN this second to surpass that little phone you call Wing. Through updates and the likes. If your so disgusted in your G1 ill get you 100 bucks for it... PM me.

G1 for 2 weeks ... returned ;?
This is not a thread to bash the G1 in anyway, this is not to compare it to other touchscreen phones. This is merely a usability distinction where i couldn't justify $400 for the device which was more or less to play with android.
the G1 is a good phone, speakers (earpiece/speaker on back) have some amplification issues when the volume is too high, coming from and SE phone however they were more than acceptable in rage and clarity if the volume was controlled.
the internet was outstanding, what i would have liked to have seen was copy and paste in browser, which may have held me to the phone a bit longer than the return period. not being able to at the very least edit docs.google.com documents was irritating at best, especially with no proper document viewer on the phone, severely constricting the email that could be sent from the phone. i am by no means a business user ... but wow, i cant even edit a *.doc thats not already on my phone to another person with some changes.
this has rambled on long enough, i just wanted to share a few thoughts that i had of the device.

diabolical28 said:
your wing was a 4th generation Windows mobile device.... did you have windows CE or win2003 before you had your wing? it took windows ages to provide the flexability they offered in the wing yes we all are used to those basic things that the wing and such wm2005 and 2006 devices have on it but where your wrong is the G1 and Android has the ability with the current phone you OWN this second to surpass that little phone you call Wing. Through updates and the likes. If your so disgusted in your G1 ill get you 100 bucks for it... PM me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While correct that the Wing has the upper hand in generations of O/S, I am reminded of a great quote:
"A wise man learns from his mistakes, a wiser man learn's from the mistakes of the one around him"
sure, you need to change the words around a bit, but the lesson is to learn from others. They didnt. Android has a lot of possibilities. Unfortunately they did not "learn" from WM6, they left a lot out. They left it in the hands of developers, who seem to be too busy writing "flashlight" and "punch meter" to write useful everyday apps that we are lacking. So far the only app that I have seen that addresses a missing feature is the missed call app 9which is AWESOME as I miss a lot of calls because they dont ring though ).

I am still keeping the phone simply because of the browsing feature, I love sitting on the couch and browsing websites smoothly. Unbelievably the browser also lacks simple features like a simple ADDRESS bar (well, its hidden in the menus so you would SEARCH and add to Google's search results instead of direct typing a URL) and switching between tabs (now called Windows) is too many unnecessary "touches" in my opinion.
I dont mean to bash the phone (and dont even think about replying with "get another phone if you dont like it") but I like to bring these frustrations up so that Google programmers know one more time why this phone is going to lose its shine if they are too late bringing themselves up to date. (PS3 Sales anyone?, Late on price cuts?). See if you are too late these days, it doesn't matter if you are better, look at MSN's Video website, its awesome and MUCH better than Youtube but no one knows about it because they were late (and they don't have their own "brand name" and its simply MSN Video)
Not being able to edit *.doc files from inside the phone's memory or google docs is one thing, and I think is acceptable on a not-so-fresh-release-anymore phone.
What is NOT acceptable whatsoever on this phone is:
Not being able to see IMAGES in Gmail??! For goodness sake Google and T-Mobile claim everything you love about google in your hand, BS. Windows Mobile did this back in 1999 (used to be called Windows CE and had its own outlook) Yes that was 1999 TEN YEARS AGO on my Cassiopea
Other items worth mentioning to those who don't have the phone:
No proper support of Google's own search on its own website! (constantly getting the blank search result page)
No Copy/Paste
No Contact Sync with Outlook (what the hell? is this Nokia 1997 all over again?)
No spreadsheet/word doc editor/viewer (ok, ok, we are waiting for all kind of programmers making incompatible with each other software
No PDF viewer (Correction, there is a great PDF viewer in the market for purchase, I meant part of the browser, I think google probably wants to come up with its own version for its Google Book website and doesnt want to use Adobe PDF)
No Flash (there goes 50% of the websites I browse)
Severly closed source and limited programming that has caused simple BS "apps" with a few exceptions. Developers are crying about how limited they are in writing programs as this phone is sooo CLOSED in all ways, there is no way to even write a Gadget for it like the clock that comes on the screen. No root access either.
Unscrollable, limited desktop space
No windows for categorizing icons. Well, Google does not believe in categorizing and file systems. I am sure all their own servers are full of FOLDERs just like Microsoft servers but they claim everything should be "LABELED" not "folder"'d.
No app installation on the SD card?? Whats this one?? I dropped my WING because it was still using the ten year old Windows CE memory system (almost) and had very limited space and was always running out.
This phone made me appreciate all the little details that engineers at Microsoft have thought of in the past 20 years and included in Windows. I think of how our life would've beeen different and productivity in the world would've been so behind if Linux, IBMOS/2 and other crap had taken over the computer world. Thanks again Microsoft for all the thousands and thousands of free "apps" you included in Windows. Stuff as simple as RIGHT clicking on the screen or COPY/Paste or just a window to categorize icons, simple stupid things I have been taking for granted for years. I am sure Google programmers would love to use Windows in all their own computers while at work. Now I know why Windows dominates the software industry even though they have failed in cluttered annoying text advertising, search, maps and a few other areas.

brooklynite said:
I am still keeping the phone simply because of the browsing feature, I love sitting on the couch and browsing websites smoothly. Unbelievably the browser also lacks simple features like a simple ADDRESS bar (well, its hidden in the menus so you would SEARCH and add to Google's search results instead of direct typing a URL) and switching between tabs (now called Windows) is too many unnecessary "touches" in my opinion.
I dont mean to bash the phone (and dont even think about replying with "get another phone if you dont like it") but I like to bring these frustrations up so that Google programmers know one more time why this phone is going to lose its shine if they are too late bringing themselves up to date. (PS3 Sales anyone?, Late on price cuts?). See if you are too late these days, it doesn't matter if you are better, look at MSN's Video website, its awesome and MUCH better than Youtube but no one knows about it because they were late (and they don't have their own "brand name" and its simply MSN Video)
Not being able to edit *.doc files from inside the phone's memory or google docs is one thing, and I think is acceptable on a not-so-fresh-release-anymore phone.
What is NOT acceptable whatsoever on this phone is:
Not being able to see IMAGES in Gmail??! For goodness sake Google and T-Mobile claim everything you love about google in your hand, BS. Windows Mobile did this back in 1999 (used to be called Windows CE and had its own outlook) Yes that was 1999 TEN YEARS AGO on my Cassiopea
Other items worth mentioning to those who don't have the phone:
No proper support of Google's own search on its own website! (constantly getting the blank search result page)
No Copy/Paste
No Contact Sync with Outlook (what the hell? is this Nokia 1997 all over again?)
No spreadsheet/word doc editor/viewer (ok, ok, we are waiting for all kind of programmers making incompatible with each other software
No PDF viewer
No Flash (there goes 50% of the websites I browse)
Severly closed source and limited programming that has caused simple BS "apps" with a few exceptions. Developers are crying about how limited they are in writing programs as this phone is sooo CLOSED in all ways, there is no way to even write a Gadget for it like the clock that comes on the screen. No root access either.
Unscrollable, limited desktop space
No windows for categorizing icons. Well, Google does not believe in categorizing and file systems. I am sure all their own servers are full of FOLDERs just like Microsoft servers but they claim everything should be "LABELED" not "folder"'d.
No app installation on the SD card?? Whats this one?? I dropped my WING because it was still using the ten year old Windows CE memory system (almost) and had very limited space and was always running out.
This phone made me appreciate all the little details that engineers at Microsoft have thought of in the past 20 years and included in Windows. I think of how our life would've beeen different and productivity in the world would've been so behind if Linux, IBMOS/2 and other crap had taken over the computer world. Thanks again Microsoft for all the thousands and thousands of free "apps" you included in Windows. Stuff as simple as RIGHT clicking on the screen or COPY/Paste or just a window to categorize icons, simple stupid things I have been taking for granted for years. I am sure Google programmers would love to use Windows in all their own computers while at work. Now I know why Windows dominates the software industry even though they have failed in cluttered annoying text advertising, search, maps and a few other areas.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Flash was announced to be coming sometime in the near future by adobe, when is the question. There is a pdf viewer on handango however i purchased it and tried to open g1's full manual and it wont open it. GO FIGURE lol.

And contacts sync with Outlook is already out - see MailShadowG at www.cemaphore.com
- in fact, it's an entire push Exchange mail/contacts/calendar sync.

diabolical28 said:
your wing was a 4th generation Windows mobile device.... did you have windows CE or win2003 before you had your wing? it took windows ages to provide the flexability they offered in the wing yes we all are used to those basic things that the wing and such wm2005 and 2006 devices have on it but where your wrong is the G1 and Android has the ability with the current phone you OWN this second to surpass that little phone you call Wing. Through updates and the likes. If your so disgusted in your G1 ill get you 100 bucks for it... PM me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sorry, i didn't know that this poll was to rate the potential of the g1. potentially, any phone can be great, 5 stars...
i think by now, 2008, the requirements for a pda phone are pretty much well defined. ms may have taken 3 to 4 gens to get it right, it doesn't mean that google needs 4 gens. they don't have to invent or reinvent anything, it all already there.
unfortunately, google seems too wrapped up in UI than functionality. actually, i don't know where their focus is.

[Q] Will a Touch HD help organize my life?

I'm on the fence about buying one of these for USA use. I don't want to pay $100 for a monthly cell phone plan, so I probably won't need the 3g for "GPS" or a lot of internet usage.
I will however most likely take advantage of the array of programs available and heavily use a calendar application to schedule appointments, reminders, alarm clock, etc. Can someone comment on how a Touch HD helps to simplify and organize their daily routine and keep appointments?
Also, I had a chance to get one of my hands on one in Malaysia and I have to say that the interface is very slick. Is it possible to use the stylus to scribble notes on a notepad? Is this a popular and quick-to-use feature for on-the-fly note taking? I don't see it mentioned very much in the forums here.
I won't be returning to the States until April, so I'll be keeping my eye on some other up and coming phones that have GPS built into the phone for an annual fee.

Well I find the HD invaluable for keeping track of my appointments and buzzing when one is due. But, any windows mobile device will do that.
I also use apMemo to make quick notes on the fly and alarm them if needed. In the car I have on the HD a button mapped to the Resco Note recorder so I may make a verbal note.
I also have loads of applications, like GPS, a copy of wiki, etc etc.
I find SBSH PocketBreeze the best diary program and have this running with TF3D by using SecondToday.
I like TF3D weather and stocks.

Jim and Dave -
Thanks very much for your response. You definitely answered my questions.
I'm not sure at this point that I need a stylus, but it sure would be a nice asset to have, as with the HD. I guess I will most likely wait around a few more months to see what else comes out. The HD is kind of impractical in the US right now since it can't be integrated into the purchase of a celllular plan.

Deleted. Double post for unknown reason.

For me, it definitely helps organize my life. In fact, I would be crippled without it.
In the morning, I rely on it to wake me up with a fantastic alarm clock application called G-Alarm. It has big button to snooze and stop, and plays my favourite music to wake me up.
I have lousy memory, so I rely on it 100% to remind me to pay me bills, renew my insurance, road tax, etc. There are finger friendly calendar applications that lets you enter text 100% without stylus. Try TouchPal or Tengo as your software keyboard, and Thumbcal as the way to enter new appointment.
Of course, birthdays, contact details are all kept in my HD, together with theri emails, etc.
Most of my emails are compiled using my HD, but since the contact could be sync to desktop, you would find it equally convenient to compile emails there too.
I pay all my bill via internet using my Touch HD. So far, Opera is able to 100% handle all my banks, although you might find some bank's website requiring desktop browser to completely carry out the transaction.
All my user id, passwords, warranty expire dates of stuffs I buy, bank accounts details, insurance details, credit cards details, health cards, library cards, software serial numbers, etc etc are all kept using my HD. There are so many nice applications to organise these informations. I use eWallet, but may others are equally good.
I drive around using Tom Tom 7, even on familiar route. Why? Because I tend to day dream and forget the speed camera, school zone hours (where during certain time of the day we must drive at 40Km/h), red light camera (to remind me NOT to enter the intersection if there is a traffic jam (lest having to pay hefty traffic fines), and to stay within the road speed limit. While in unfamiliar places, I'm 100% relying on it to bring me to the destination. While travelling in Asian countries, Tom Tom and iGO are completely useless, so I use Garmin and Mapking in those countries. All these GPS are installed on my HD at all times. Forget iPhone.
I use the stock information a lot, checking it many times during the day.
Then while coming acrosss words I don't know, I use my favourite Lexisgoo to find out what they mean.
There are times when I need to convert unit of measure from one system to another (for example, from cm to inches). I use Panoramic Calc Pro to help me in such task. The standard winmo or iphone calculator is not going to help here.
I live in Australia, where the price of petrol changes frequently duing the day, and there is always a need to know where I can get the cheapest petrol. I have emails sending such informaiton to me twice a day, but I have also bookmark this website to look up instantly when my petrol runs low.
I keep many other reference information on my HD. I install applications such as Wine Guide, Travel Guide on my HD.
While having time to kill, I amuse myself with ebooks using a fantastic ebook reader called AlReader. It is also 100% finger friendly.
I use youtube a lot. There is also an application that lets you view video from sources other than youtube, called Web Video Downloader. With WVD, you could watch from youtube, liveleak, porkolt, dailymotion, tube8, google, eskimotube, pornhub, bootyfix, and xyxx. I don't know most of them as I use only youtbue, but it works for all in my test. You can watch video in MP4 (higher quality that FLV) format there, so I prefer it over the standard youtube player.
Radio, MP3, videos, picture viewing are some other pastimes.
I own video recorders and good cameras, but these days I don't bring them with me anymore, as I find my HD doing very good job in most situation. The only problem is taking picture is very poor lighting condition.
All my telephone converations are recorded automatically using Audio notes touch. There is no need to fumble for pen and paper while speaking on the phone.
I also use AgePhone for VOIP calls using my HD. Just 8 aussie cents per call anywhere in the world untimed.
While playing golf, I use Mobile Golf Scorer to track our scores, calculates the stapleford points of everyone, and rank us if we want to hold competition against each other. It calculates all our handicaps automatically. It tells me the distance of my postion to the water hazards, to the green, etc.
The screen brightness of HD is just excellent beyond my expectation. It has an automatic sensor. I am able to see things very clearly under the strongest sunlight.
My HD is fast. I'm using standard ROM.
HD has excellent battery life. I used to have to use the car charger everytime I get into my car. Now I don't anymore as its battery is so good. Anyway, I also bought a spare battery, so when I run out of battery before going to bed, I simply swap in the new one. You can't do that with iPhone.
I have lots of spreadsheet models that I had created using my mobile device. I use SoftMaker to give me 100% of the desktop editing capability for word, spreadsheet and presentation. I am able to view all email attachment on my HD, with or without internet connection. No such capability with iPhone.
Okay, this is getting too long, but I hope it helps you get the picture.

ModernMuseum said:
The HD is kind of impractical in the US right now since it can't be integrated into the purchase of a celllular plan.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hey, the hd can be used fine in the us. you just wont get 3g. everything else will work fine. you can use jit with any sim card (at&nt, tmobie)

I find taking notes with the stylus very easy.
There's no lag at all!
In fact I do it all the time, Notes is mapped to my right softkey in the home menu.

like some others here, i would struggle without my winmo fone now.
i use the calendar for all my work appts (can be a dozen a day at various venues with various people for various reasons) i sync the calender with outlook both at work and at home, over the mobile network at times. my personal life is stored on there as well such as parties, hols, birthdays etc etc
i collect my work email on the move and can schedule meetings with it
my whole address book is in it, as well as being able to access the corporate address book
i use tomtom to navigate to meetings at places i dont know via my contacts
i make notes on it during meetings and have no trouble making my own minutes in real time. i even make voice notes if in the car and need to recall something
for me, the term Personal Digital Assistant is the perfect description
@jim..... i fond the stock winmo applications to be all i need, just that you have to set them up to your preferences. i use spb diary and shell for my front end though, preferring that over TF3D

eaglesteve said:
All my user id, passwords, warranty expire dates of stuffs I buy, bank accounts details, insurance details, credit cards details, health cards, library cards, software serial numbers, etc etc are all kept using my HD. There are so many nice applications to organise these informations. I use eWallet, but may others are equally good.
...
Okay, this is getting too long, but I hope it helps you get the picture.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First off, great post for selling Windows Mobile!
One thing that caught my eye is when you mentioned storing software serial numbers. I couldn't tell you how many online purchases I've made of various pieces of software where I've forgotten where I wrote down the serial number, or worse yet what programs I've even purchased.
You use eWallet to track that, or is there something better that you know of?
I could maybe get rid of the tons of user manuals I hang on to only because they have the serial numbers for installation.. lol.

sschrupp said:
First off, great post for selling Windows Mobile!
One thing that caught my eye is when you mentioned storing software serial numbers. I couldn't tell you how many online purchases I've made of various pieces of software where I've forgotten where I wrote down the serial number, or worse yet what programs I've even purchased.
You use eWallet to track that, or is there something better that you know of?
I could maybe get rid of the tons of user manuals I hang on to only because they have the serial numbers for installation.. lol.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What I use is Ilium Listpro. This is a great list application and comes with a PC app that is exactly the same and produces the same files - so, copy and paste to the HD is childs-play.
I have one list (of many) for applications and I try to update that each time I load something up including the version, password/free, web site. See my post on this in the thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=442663
I have in that listpro lists a set of sub-lists for applications I had on my old Tytn II etc. So, I can always track back to an app I might want to try on the HD.
Here is my listpro entry for listpro !! (minus password):
Ilium Listpro 5.0.0.2016 http://www.iliumsoft.com/site/lp/listpro.htm

ModernMuseum said:
Jim and Dave -
Thanks very much for your response. You definitely answered my questions.
I'm not sure at this point that I need a stylus, but it sure would be a nice asset to have, as with the HD. I guess I will most likely wait around a few more months to see what else comes out. The HD is kind of impractical in the US right now since it can't be integrated into the purchase of a celllular plan.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No problem. One thing that I wanna mention real quick though is that...w/ winmo, the big problem (and advantage) that I'm sure you have noticed on these forums is...you're not going to get anywhere w/o 3rd party apps. Basically everything kinda sucks :S lol.
But once you get rolling w/ those...you're great. But the problem therein is that so many apps can begin to bog the device down and cause software conflicts.
The great news....both winmo 6.5 and android are soon to be on the HD (I give it 3.5 months guaranteed they are both running well on it).
EDIT: Basically though, the overall simple answer to your base question is: YES. Maybe other devices could do it better, or it will take tweaking, but YES. And even if you do NO tweaking whatsoever the answer would still be: YES...just not nearly as strong a yes.

Thanks for all the replies guys. I really appreciate it.
@eaglesteve-
When you take notes during meetings, do you use the stylus or your finger, and what program do you use?

ModernMuseum said:
Thanks for all the replies guys. I really appreciate it.
@eaglesteve-
When you take notes during meetings, do you use the stylus or your finger, and what program do you use?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It was another guy's post that talks about note taking. I sometimes take sermon notes in Sunday Church services. I use TextMaker with Tengo Thumb keyboard without stylus. Tengo Thumb is the only keyboard that lets me type fast enough to catch up with the speaker. It has only six hugh keys, requiring very little travelling distance (my thumb concentrates around the tyghbn region only, so your thumb and finger need not move all over the screen). Same concept as TouchPal, but just 6 bigger buttons instead of 14 smaller buttons.

eaglesteve said:
It was another guy's post that talks about note taking. I sometimes take sermon notes in Sunday Church services. I use TextMaker with Tengo Thumb keyboard without stylus. Tengo Thumb is the only keyboard that lets me type fast enough to catch up with the speaker. It has only six hugh keys, requiring very little travelling distance (my thumb concentrates around the tyghbn region only, so your thumb and finger need not move all over the screen). Same concept as TouchPal, but just 6 bigger buttons instead of 14 smaller buttons.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or you could use a sound recorder ? I have Resco which I find works well but I don't use it for long sermons !

Cheesy Dave said:
Or you could use a sound recorder ? I have Resco which I find works well but I don't use it for long sermons !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I suppose we could do that too.

Not in a meeting! Hehe.
**crackle**
Keith, don't forget to send that report to the nazi bossman by the end of the day. Oh, yeah, and buy condoms on the way home.
**crackle**

ModernMuseum said:
I'm on the fence about buying one of these for USA use. I don't want to pay $100 for a monthly cell phone plan, so I probably won't need the 3g for "GPS" or a lot of internet usage.
I will however most likely take advantage of the array of programs available and heavily use a calendar application to schedule appointments, reminders, alarm clock, etc. Can someone comment on how a Touch HD helps to simplify and organize their daily routine and keep appointments?
Also, I had a chance to get one of my hands on one in Malaysia and I have to say that the interface is very slick. Is it possible to use the stylus to scribble notes on a notepad? Is this a popular and quick-to-use feature for on-the-fly note taking? I don't see it mentioned very much in the forums here.
I won't be returning to the States until April, so I'll be keeping my eye on some other up and coming phones that have GPS built into the phone for an annual fee.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let me start of to say that I don’t own Blackstone yet. Therefore I can’t tell you much about the device performance itself, but I am using WinMo since some 8-10 years now.
During this time I have used quite few different devices and I can tell you that I never had device that was “perfect”. Somehow you will have always some issues that you not very happy with it. Speed, Size, keyboard, Battery live, Screen Size, stability etc. etc.
Furthermore after while you will start to visit this site more and more. Times will pass then you will find out that you spend more time here on this site then you talking to your wife. You will be addicted!!! You will wait of custom ROM releases like you have been waiting for your first child. You will use your device more for flashing and testing new ROMS then you will actually use your device. You will start to install so many Software’s that you think they are useful but then you will find out you use them actually only first couple of days.
Coming to using your device to Organizing your live.. Well looking back to 8-10 years I would say a PDA did become a must for busy people, especially if you work a lot with Microsoft outlook on your desktop.
The OS WinMo gives you basic application and of course there plenty 3 party software that improves the capability and functionality of the Device. Indeed you may find more than one software company that offers almost same software. Well again same as the hardware there is no perfect software besides everyone has own favorites.. I would say try them and find the best for you.
Here is the list of software that I have installed:
Pocket Informant ( PIM)
PhatNotes ( database Notes)
PhatPad (handwriting notes)
CalliGrapher (Hand writing Input)
HiCalc ( calculator and Unit converter)
PhoneAlarm Pro (this software can do more than one thing..check it out)
SKTools (Utilities)
Resco explorer(file explorer)
Google Maps
TodayAgenda (displays appointments and task on today screen)
LingvoSoft Dictionary’s
Softmaker office (Replacement for Pocket word, excel etc.)
Flexmail ( email client: I use this only for POP and IMAP email accounts)
I am a business user. I have daily 80-150 emails. Many Appointments and Project/Task that I need to remember and follow up.
I work mainly with MS outlook on my desktop. Therefore all my appointments, task, Reminders and Contacts are organized in outlook. After Sync. with my Hand device the Pocket Informant gives me the best tools to keep me Organized for those.
I use PhatNotes for all my information that I need to keep as notes(database) to remember. There is 2 versions for PhatNotes. 1) integrates with outlook notes 2)has own separate desktop application. I personally use the separate desktop version. I can organize my notes under different categories. I can protect sensitive notes with passwords
I found Phatpad is one of the best hand writing Notes.. I use it mostly in the meetings to take handwritten notes ( like on paper) I can with the help of the calligrapher convert my handwriting to text and save it as word document or txt file. Moreover it is a great tool for using it like yellow sticker notes. You can add reminder to your notes as well.
Well I can go on like that for hours for what else I am using my WinMo. In Short I would say I would be lost without it. The only Advice I can give you is to install only the software’s that you really use daily base.

Win 8 Metro Poll and discussion - No FUD aloud!!

Righty folks, heres a quick poll, I think the results will be very interesting, anyone is welcome to vote
The discussion however is for objective views and opinions from people who have actually used and tested the OS for a reasonable amount of time, that's to say more than a hand full of days!
Views like "ive read" Ive heard" "Its crap" mean precisely bugger all and are not welcome. Anyone who binned it after 5 min or couldn't be bothered to understand it because it didn't have a start button need not bother to grace us with your presence.
This is not a place to spread FUD, start flame fests or simply come on to moan about it.
Im not saying we all must agree, im saying we need to be able to support that opinion with evidence, we are after all, Microsoft testers, it would be good to support one another and share what we have learnt and help others out.
Let the fun and games commence!

After using consumer preview since its release i have grown to love the interface. I have to use windows 7 on my college's computers and the start button feels so counter intuitive. All of the old functionality still remains if anyone wants to use it. Also, the os as a whole is much faster than 7. My two biggest complaints about windows 8 are the random crashes when exiting sleep and the general lack of drivers, both of which are expected during a beta stage.
Sent from my handheld Linux computer using electromagnetic radiation.

I installed windows 8 the day the consumer preview came out and overall I have to say it’s been a positive experience. There was a slight learning curve, nothing that a few hours and reading the proper documentation could not fix. Although I feel this was slightly due to the fact the charm bar does not seem to respond very well with two monitors, but in all fairness Ctrl + c works fine and I am more comfortable with shortcuts.
A few things I did the metro icons were not very crisp on a large display which is something that I am very nitpicky about. I also wish there was more of a windows phone influence with regards to the metro apps, currently a lot of the apps are just a long horizontal scrolling applications. I would of much preferred titled sections on a continuous loop that when clicked the title you are moved to that section like in wp7.
Currently scrolling around looks ugly and a little clumsy for instance the weather app to me looks horrible. All in all not really that much has changed its is still really just windows with an addition screen that doubles as a start screen and a way to communicate more information then there previously has been in windows.

indeed, ive got a few driver issues as well, but as you say, that is to be expected in its current form.
multi monitor setups are a big issue, trying to get the "zones" can be a bit of a pain, I dare say you'd get used to it but I think this could be easily overcome and is a design fault that needs fixed
Ideally id like to see metro being transferable to different monitors, whilst maintaining the primary monitor else where.
Something else I agree on is the Windows Phone influence, there needs to be more of it, I realise this is beta still but the people tile is terrible when compared to WP, id presume you would allow groups as well...
Something else id like to see imported to this idea is the ability to sync text messages in to the people tile as well, making the Metro UI an extension of WP, their half way there already and would also provide a convent backup solution for WP. The size of txt messages could easily be transferred when your live account syncs every now and then, meaning you would be able to get home, put your WP down, fire up Windows and instantly be able to work with metro containing all the info available on your phone.
In my opinion, if there going to join the platforms then they may as well do it propperly.

I have used it for about 3 weeks now but i am still unsure whether it should be released along with the desktop OS when the RC comes out. tbh I see what they're trying to do, but it's a very bad move for desktop / laptops (unless touchscreen). Compatibility to older windows programs is limited and it's more of an annoyance than anything helpful. They tried to emulate the launch control in Mac with extra features, but i fail to see how this is revolutionary to desktop pcs and such. It just gave you two desktops, one of which you'll rarely use. Of course there are many other things I can complain about, but don't want to rant up this thread lol. Sure it looks pretty and all, but it's more limited than win7 and I don't see how that's a plus.

HaVoKeR said:
Compatibility to older windows programs is limited and it's more of an annoyance than anything helpful.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hows that? im unsure where your coming from on this one as it runs anything ive tried that worked on Win 7 so how is it Limited and annoying?
HaVoKeR said:
It just gave you two desktops, one of which you'll rarely use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I presume you mean the Metro UI is rarely used? From what ive seen the key to getting the most out of Metro is to set it up, at the moment there are limited "apps" which make use of the full live tile function but it will get there, the email, messaging , photos, calendar, Music all work fine (all be it we cant use music properly outside of the US just now)
HaVoKeR said:
Sure it looks pretty and all, but it's more limited than win7 and I don't see how that's a plus.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't see how its more limited? can you explain that? Metro is just a layer on top of the desktop, personally I cant see any less functionality.

HaVoKeR said:
I have used it for about 3 weeks now but i am still unsure whether it should be released along with the desktop OS when the RC comes out. tbh I see what they're trying to do, but it's a very bad move for desktop / laptops (unless touchscreen). Compatibility to older windows programs is limited and it's more of an annoyance than anything helpful. They tried to emulate the launch control in Mac with extra features, but i fail to see how this is revolutionary to desktop pcs and such. It just gave you two desktops, one of which you'll rarely use. Of course there are many other things I can complain about, but don't want to rant up this thread lol. Sure it looks pretty and all, but it's more limited than win7 and I don't see how that's a plus.
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Howso? I use all the older programs that I've always used, It's not limited and it's not an annoyance. How are they trying to emulate Launch Control when the Metro UI dates back to before Launch Control (It's been there since WP7's release which was before Lion's)? I actually use both desktops fairly equally.
Edit: I actually have a correction to that Metro UI has been there since Microsoft released the Zune Player software for PC and Zune devices. So it's effectively been around before Launch Control and Lion.
Answering the poll:
Over 2 weeks and Overall Like. I love being able to see everything at a glance when I start Windows, I love the Metro Applications (Especially the Live Communication Applications). It truly is a step forward from the old, dated menu based interface and a step forward that I welcome. I used to switch OSes every few months because I'd get bored with how Windows looked and how limited I was with customizing it, but 8's changes give me the integration and customization that I like I love the Google Calendar sync, I finally have one calendar across all my devices ^_^, Can't wait to see what changes in RC. I just hope they don't bring back the Start Orb/Menu.
Edit: I would love to at least be able to post status changes to social networks in people though and I'm especially hoping for a Windows 8 Google Voice client so I don't have to open my web browser or look at my phone (especially if my phone's dead) to continue sending/receiving messages. I was going to make one in Developer's Preview but I couldn't find a suitable third-party API that supported receiving messages and I couldn't figure out XAML or the Metro Designer...
Also Dazza: I agree, I don't see any less functionality. Rather I see an increase of productivity and functionality.

I couldn't agree more,
The People Hub on here is pretty bad, course its a preview app so I would hope there will be some significant changes. In fact to make it easy for them, I want WP7 People hub on Windows 8, simple as that.
The challenge would be horizontal scrolling as apposed to vertical given that most of us have wide screen, at the moment its a huge waste of space and not very useful.
The messenger app could do with being linked in to FB in much the same way as WP7, in fact once again, just bring it all over, The people, messaging, email etc are probable some of the most efficient designs ive ever seen on a phone, given that Metro is supposed to be a quick efficient way of doing stuff they would do well to keep that the same and let outlook etc take care of the nitty gritty side to things.
edit:
Looks like that results stacking up, by an large the biggest portion of folk like it, and out of those that don't most of those in % terms haven't used it for very long at all. Just goes to show!

I like it alot. I'd be using it as my main OS already if drivers were available for a couple of my devices.
I've always loved the WP7 UI so Metro is great for me. A little bit more work needs doing on the integration of the desktop with Metro though. Just to make things a little more fluid.
I've got Windows 8 installed on both my main PC and my HP TM2 laptop so have given the touch gestures a go too which work really well.

adamwebb28 said:
I like it alot. I'd be using it as my main OS already if drivers were available for a couple of my devices.
I've always loved the WP7 UI so Metro is great for me. A little bit more work needs doing on the integration of the desktop with Metro though. Just to make things a little more fluid.
I've got Windows 8 installed on both my main PC and my HP TM2 laptop so have given the touch gestures a go too which work really well.
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i was reading on the MS blog that whilst it will run on win7 touch hardware, win 8 hardware has been tweeked even further, have you noticed any issues, especially around fingers moving on to the screen from the sides to quickly? and tap lag (typing to quick an missing letters!)?

dazza9075 said:
i was reading on the MS blog that whilst it will run on win7 touch hardware, win 8 hardware has been tweeked even further, have you noticed any issues, especially around fingers moving on to the screen from the sides to quickly? and tap lag (typing to quick an missing letters!)?
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I'll be honest, I haven't done much with using the on screen keyboard. But certainly not had any problems with swiping onto the screen.
The couple of times I have used the on screen keyboard it hasn't felt much better than the old touch keyboard in windows 7.

For tablet: like it very very much.
For desktop: dislike.
I will never use metro on my desktop PC. Why ? Because it cant display more than 1 app ( nope, 1/4 sized app pinned to left or right side does not count for me ). I will never use metro apps on desktop pc, and i think most people wont...so what is it there for ?
I have nothing against metro, and i like the tiles design. But using it on a desktop PC is just not practical for me.

Akiainavas said:
For tablet: like it very very much.
For desktop: dislike.
I will never use metro on my desktop PC. Why ? Because it cant display more than 1 app ( nope, 1/4 sized app pinned to left or right side does not count for me ). I will never use metro apps on desktop pc, and i think most people wont...so what is it there for ?
I have nothing against metro, and i like the tiles design. But using it on a desktop PC is just not practical for me.
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I see what your saying, but I question your expectation of it.
potentially it displays dozens of "informative apps" opening each app separately then gives you more detail. Consider Metro to be similar to your mobile phone, can you display several windows at once on your phone? unless your using WM probably not but what your phone does is displays you lots of bits of information usually very well. Metro takes this idea and gives it to your PC, a single key press will give you access to stacks of information at a glance, another key press gives you multi windowed windows, or if the metro app is any good you can fire it up in full screen.
Metro is a tool that on the desktop actually works great with impressive levels of productivity, metro on a tablet allows you a great level of finger friendly UI, desktop remains there all be it in a slightly less finger friendly fashion (bumping up the DPI can help here tho!)

dazza9075 said:
what your phone does is displays you lots of bits of information usually very well. Metro takes this idea and gives it to your PC, a single key press will give you access to stacks of information at a glance,
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Well, yeah that's actually pretty useful. Would be great if desktop apps could create and maintain a Live Tile as well, so i could check my mail count etc with Windows key, but not necessarily read it in full-screen metro mode. They can't do that at the moment, but who knows, maybe later.

Akiainavas said:
Well, yeah that's actually pretty useful. Would be great if desktop apps could create and maintain a Live Tile as well, so i could check my mail count etc with Windows key, but not necessarily read it in full-screen metro mode. They can't do that at the moment, but who knows, maybe later.
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do you mean getting your mail program to display on the icon information about whats going on? wouldnt think there is much space to get any real info but if you pin your mail program (for the purpose of all my posts ill say that all desktop programs are programs and metro programs are apps) to your task bar then if the program has been designed correctly then it will display some limited info, outlook works great for me, and tells me how many emails i have sitting there.

HaVoKeR said:
I have used it for about 3 weeks now but i am still unsure whether it should be released along with the desktop OS when the RC comes out. tbh I see what they're trying to do, but it's a very bad move for desktop / laptops (unless touchscreen). Compatibility to older windows programs is limited and it's more of an annoyance than anything helpful. They tried to emulate the launch control in Mac with extra features, but i fail to see how this is revolutionary to desktop pcs and such. It just gave you two desktops, one of which you'll rarely use. Of course there are many other things I can complain about, but don't want to rant up this thread lol. Sure it looks pretty and all, but it's more limited than win7 and I don't see how that's a plus.
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The UI is very different from the Mac and doesn't even work the same. Not sure where you got that - other than all touch interfaces use Icons....
Compatibility is outstanding. I was shocked at how many of my normal use applications ran perfect. For a Beta of a major OS change, the compatibility is excellent.
It's Win 7 AND more new features.
Win 8 will win you over (unless your an Apple fan) once you see how people utilize the OS enhancements.
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Akiainavas said:
For tablet: like it very very much.
For desktop: dislike.
I will never use metro on my desktop PC. Why ? Because it cant display more than 1 app ( nope, 1/4 sized app pinned to left or right side does not count for me ). I will never use metro apps on desktop pc, and i think most people wont...so what is it there for ?
I have nothing against metro, and i like the tiles design. But using it on a desktop PC is just not practical for me.
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I'm not sure what you are talking about. You use the term "app" which to me is one of the little micro applications we use on tablets. Or, are you talking about applications like Streets and Trips, Excel, etc... If you're talking about Metro specifically, then maybe I see what you mean, but I've had multiple ones displayed and running on my laptop although in Metro the sizing is set to 1/3. I did some work with multiple windows between IRFan and Excel and used the old desktop to customize the sizing of the windows. So, again, not sure why you say you can't do it.???

Those same under the hood enhancements could have been made to Windows 7 while keeping and enhancing the Windows 7 UI and called Windows 8 on release (or even a Service pack FFS, look how big XP SP2 was).
It has nothing to do with Apple. It has nothing to do with under the hood improvements that could have been made to 7, anyways (like going from Vista to 7, hello...). It has to do with the jarring and otherwise terrible user experience this release has on non-touch PCs and also for multile monitor users (who are becoming more prevelant with budget graphics cards allowing this and LCD monitors being so cheap nowadays).
I've ran the beta on its own PC. It's terrible for desktop use and will deserve the reviews I'm almost sure it will get when it releases to non-touch users later this year.
Compatibility is always excellent because the Win32 API is forward compatible. There's nothing great, exciting, or unforseen about that. Solaris is UNIX and it has the same backward and forward API compatibility very similar to Windows.
They destroyed Multi-Tasking and generally destroyed the way people use their computers for the sold purpose of pushing their own dumb-down UI metaphor down people's throats. Metro wastes a ton of screen real estate. Look bow big the banners are in many of those apps, and how much odd whitespace is in some of them (Email app, Pictures app, etc.).
Then they throw a highly curated/bastardized version of the explorer shell in as an app and tell us "see, the desktop is still there" even though only Metro apps will be sold directly (and updated directly) via the Windows Store and they're basically deprecating Win32/MFC development, among other things.
I have a hard time calling this a multi-tasking OS, especially if you sit in Metro most of the time.
Sorry, but I'm not sure what YOU'RE talking about.

oh, your here as well, thanks for the constructive feedback, I trust you are using the feedback options within Win 8 to provide MS with your deep insights in to the workings of their BETA product that you asked to test for them
Oh, and Desktop isn't an app, its the desktop, its no different than before and ive not found anything that doesn't work yet strangely enough as i said on the other thread, multi tasking works fine
But anyhow, im not going to bother replying to it all as you seem to have completely made your mind up without really understanding what its all about

dazza9075 said:
oh, your here as well, thanks for the constructive feedback, I trust you are using the feedback options within Win 8 to provide MS with your deep insights in to the workings of their BETA product that you asked to test for them
Oh, and Desktop isn't an app, its the desktop, its no different than before and ive not found anything that doesn't work yet strangely enough as i said on the other thread, multi tasking works fine
But anyhow, im not going to bother replying to it all as you seem to have completely made your mind up without really understanding what its all about
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I stopped giving feedback when they stopped listening to and implementing the most trivial QoL changes in their products.
The Desktop doesn't even have a functioning start menu comparable to Windows Vista or 7 yet you somehow feel compelled to believe it's functionally identical.
Fine is in the eye of the beholder. Being thrown from Desktop to full screen metro apps and only being able to multi-task Metro apps by pinning one to 1/4the screen is a terrible compromise bordering on laughable.
Oh, and have you tried using Windows 8 on a non-touch laptop with only a Trackpad? Laughable...

N8ter said:
I stopped giving feedback when they stopped listening to and implementing the most trivial QoL changes in their products.
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Then why bother downloading it, its for testing purposes only
you have this so unbelievably wrong

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