Well i heard of this software made by the company "SPBsoftware"
And i'm prepared to spend money for top quality applications but, as I was reading on another site-that were offering a "trial version"- said meant for PPC WM6?
I hope that it would work, cause the layout's are so simplistic, organized, and unique
+Im to scared to try the XM6(WM6?) Rom available, cause the guys post is filled with so many warnings- that you could brick your dvice, that its itimidating to even begin
So the question is will downloading and installing these SPB programs, work on the default WM5 OS of the 8125 Wizard?
-BTW if these programs are compatible with WM5, should I install/Add/Load it onto my device's System memory?, or My mini sd card?
Any, and all post greatly appreciated
Thanks!
It's pretty unlikely that you'll brick your phone by trying software from a more-or-less legitimate software developer. Try it. The worst thing likely to happen is you'll have to go through some kind of rigamarole to uninstall the thing later, if it doesn't work properly.
If you don't feel comfortable with doing things like making registry entry changes, or digging around in system files, then you probably should stick to things that are clearly marked "Works on <<your system/phone/service>>."
As far as loading to system vs. SD, the general rule of thumb is, if you run the program all the time (such as skinning programs and today plug-ins, like SPB is known for) then it should be in system memory. The only software that you should load to SD are things you run sparingly and don't need constant access to. Accessing SD memory is pretty slow on these devices, and it'll seriously affect operability if you load "always run" or "mostly always run" programs from SD.
Lastly, loading new ROMs is a complex and easily flubbed process, from what I've read, and I share your disinterest in bricking an expensive piece of hardware. Frankly, I suspect that the main reason HTC never bothered to upgrade the 8125 to WM6 is because it actually can't handle it, from a hardware standpoint. Every person who has loaded a cooked ROM to a Wizard seems to have reported bugs, errors, and other problems, even with cleanly performed installations. I haven't seen nearly as much complaint from WM5 users.
So, strip down your installation, get rid of the junk, even over-clock the processor if you want (mine runs just fine at around 247MHz), but for my part, I would recommend against loading WM6 on a Wizard, purely based on stability of the hardware/software working in tandem.
<rant>After all, there's a reason why you can't run Windows Vista on an old 486 machine (even if it has enough memory, etc.), and that's because the new software depends heavily upon newer hardware designs to run more complex algorithms and lean hard on those math co-processors (read: hide their bloat and junk from end-users). Run new software on an old machine, and it bogs down and errors out. Again, I don't recommend this, although others probably will.</rant>
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Take a look at Wisbar Advance version 2.x, too. It was written for WM5, and won't crash your phone. WA version 3 looks nice too, though I haven't got experience first-hand with it. This assumes the reason you're looking at SPB is for skinning, of course.
As far as customizing your today screen goes, I'd also recommend rlToday. It's easily designed using basic XML, and was written for WM5, too. Can heavily incorporate graphics and so forth.
Myrddin Wyllt said:
Lastly, loading new ROMs is a complex and easily flubbed process, from what I've read, and I share your disinterest in bricking an expensive piece of hardware. Frankly, I suspect that the main reason HTC never bothered to upgrade the 8125 to WM6 is because it actually can't handle it, from a hardware standpoint. Every person who has loaded a cooked ROM to a Wizard seems to have reported bugs, errors, and other problems, even with cleanly performed installations. I haven't seen nearly as much complaint from WM5 users.
So, strip down your installation, get rid of the junk, even over-clock the processor if you want (mine runs just fine at around 247MHz), but for my part, I would recommend against loading WM6 on a Wizard, purely based on stability of the hardware/software working in tandem.
<rant>After all, there's a reason why you can't run Windows Vista on an old 486 machine (even if Really???it has enough memory, etc.), and that's because the new software depends heavily upon newer hardware designs to run more complex algorithms and lean hard on those math co-processors (read: hide their bloat and junk from end-users). Run new software on an old machine, and it bogs down and errors out. Again, I don't recommend this, although others probably will.</rant>
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really...is that so???
I've run WM6 on my wizard for quite a bit of time with no bugs or issues of any kind. My rom is very stable, fast and quite dependable...and a helluva lot better than Tmo's stock rom which I had to reboot pretty much daily. My Wizard runs my WM6 rom with no problems at all.
And always learn everything you can about your device first...yes you can damage it, but only if you are foolish enough to not READ READ READ the stickies and wiki first. Unlocking your device and upgrading it is actually pretty easy and painless. As for running SPB...SPB can run on both WM5 and WM6...and uninstalling is a breeze.
Wizards are actually VERY HARD to break. I know, I've tried. Mine has been dropped, rained on, upgraded and downgraded...it wasn't until the usb gave out mid rom flash that it finally gave up the ghost. I replaced it and immediately began abusing the new one. It might as well be called Timex, because the damned thing takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin'!!!!
Related
Hi Guys,
Ok, i've thrown the lure on Modaco and now i try here, I'm basically looking for someone to code this idea.
I'm an Omnia lucky owner and i really love it, particularly it's versatility.
I just regret the lack of cool interfaces (put Manilla 2d aside, it's awesome, but it's like having an htc device on out phones, not very exclusive). here are two quick layouts of an idea i had today, it's practically just eyecandy stuff, maybe not the top usability around but, you know, in our life we must satisfy ourselves...
Basically i'm looking for someone to code this, if it's mildly possible, 'cause i'm a poor lazy designer, and i don't chew any "if" or any "else"...
So here they are, a portrait and a landscape view of what's laying in my mind:
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"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
the idea is to have a spinning wheel of icons, transparent if possible (png with alpha?) that can grant access to the corrisponding main ambients of a mobile shell when tapped, just like SPB mobile shell or manilla, only more "graphic". The thing is conceived to be touch driven, with hrizontal sliding to spin the icons wheel and a vertical slide to access a second menu, just in case smile.gif The background (plane + rings) should be still, just a plain image.
I plan to design the "inside" of any section if i find someone crazy enough to follow my babblings, things like a photo gallery, a media player, a weather panel, etc.... (ye ye, like manilla) ando oh yes, no windows bars for now.
If there's someone who own the knowledge to understand the feasibility of this thing, my first question is "Flash lite?" cause i like very much the idea of having something very kinetic and possibly quick, and i'm not completely new to flash to keep me from helping.
Any Thoughts ?
P.S.: i'm sorry if some phrases in my post aren't clear enough, but i'm italian and i'm not so sure about my english.
Cheers.
Hellbender.
PPS: Frak, wrong section, please can a mod move it in the appropriate one ? I'm so lame.
I'm not an Omnia owner, nor can I help you, but I think it's a pretty cool looking idea. As for the language, I wouldn't have guessed until you said it that you weren't a native English speaker... No worries. I hope someone can help you get this idea off the ground, maybe having a few levels of wheels (i.e. flicking up and down gets to an inner or outer wheel from the one it's at) would make it more fun to navigate. Wheel 1 is your basics, and when you select something (like programs) wheel 2 lists the programs... Quick to get back and forth and easy to sort through. Good luck!
it will be difficult to remove the window bars and softkeys while keeping the touchflo.
This will have to be done in C++ (basically rework the whole frontend.) -meaning we need to know alot about each API to be able to create a flawless frontend that works with WM6.0+ backend
This will be quite a project.
I like how it looks
@Black93300ZX: thank you for your kindness
@zeezee: so i assume that products like SPB Mobile Shell are written in C++. I would be happy with just a fullscreen app that overlays on the today screen (SPB like), non necessarily a total integration like Manilla 2D. I haven't any idea about the performance.
"...meaning we need to know alot about each API.." you mean each single app i would add to that interface ? Because i was thinking that could be initially just some sort of launcher with graphical navigation, and adding features with time.
Obviously the BEST should be to intregrate every single function inside the same graphical environment, but for starters this is far from my expectations.
For now it's a spare time project, i'll take everything community can give to help.
Hellbender.
I really like the idea, especially the concept mock up interface you have developed. However I think you might get a better reception if you try and aim to make the application available for all HTC users, aka a universal front end to the essentials much like what SPB Mobile Shell does. Sadly my programming expertise is not that great to help out, sorry.
Best of luck getting others onboard to help you out with it!
psychoben87 said:
I really like the idea, especially the concept mock up interface you have developed. However I think you might get a better reception if you try and aim to make the application available for all HTC users, aka a universal front end to the essentials much like what SPB Mobile Shell does. Sadly my programming expertise is not that great to help out, sorry.
Best of luck getting others onboard to help you out with it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's true, if you made it generic for Windows Mobile I'm sure you could find plenty of developers here who would help you out. Unfortunately, asking for help with software for a Samsung on an HTC forum may present problems. :|
Black93300ZX said:
That's true, if you made it generic for Windows Mobile I'm sure you could find plenty of developers here who would help you out. Unfortunately, asking for help with software for a Samsung on an HTC forum may present problems. :|
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I could be wrong but I'm under the impression the Omnia runs windows mobile 6.1 which iirc is the first samsung phone to use windows mobile.
psychoben87 said:
I could be wrong but I'm under the impression the Omnia runs windows mobile 6.1 which iirc is the first samsung phone to use windows mobile.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It does, but I'm saying I think originally he was asking for this to be made specifically for the Omnia, wouldn't work with HTC devices... Just like a lot of the customizations on the Tilt won't work on the Touch Pro. If he asked for it to be a generic program for Windows Mobile, however, he might have better luck as developers will have their phones to test it on.
For a start, Flash Lite is probably easier, but using C++ may end up with a better finished product that's more compatible.
I love the idea, and think the graphics look great!
I can help code it, but I'm certain there are better people with more time than me.
If the whole interface were 2D rather than 3D (using scaling to produce a 3D like effect) it'll run faster and probably better. And it'll be far less reliant on hardware.
I don't own an Omnia, but I'm sure there's an emulator available for the resolution, and it would be cool to have it on other screens as well.
Oh, and since I seem to be the first mod here, I'll move the thread.
Black93300ZX said:
It does, but I'm saying I think originally he was asking for this to be made specifically for the Omnia, wouldn't work with HTC devices... Just like a lot of the customizations on the Tilt won't work on the Touch Pro. If he asked for it to be a generic program for Windows Mobile, however, he might have better luck as developers will have their phones to test it on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh opps, thanks for pointing that out.
After doing my ActionScreen, I realised I could adapt the framework very easily to create a download manager.
Currently, the only applications on it are ones that I've hardcoded, although I'm almost certainly going to extend it to 3rd party software, and probably build in some form of updates system...
I will also be implementing this as an "add ons" system to a ROM I'm working on. E.g. it's a very light ROM with a long list of cabs that can be downloaded and installed from one place.
Why am I posting it here you may ask... Well, I want to get some ideas for what to do, and see what people think of it before I release it.
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What I'm hoping to do:
Application categories
Sorting by developer
Submissions (two levels, trusted - have been checked, and untrusted - haven't been checked but have warnings plastered all over them)
Details screen with a screenshot and some text
Proper updates mechanism
Kinetic list scrolling (I just can't be asked to derive displacement from velocity at the moment...)
Warning, this may destroy your device, and possibly the planet, but I cannot be held responsible!
Cab attached below, backup anything you care about, copy it across install and run...
0.04 is identical (bar the fact that it thinks its 0.04 instead of 0.03...), but is hosted somewhere else to demonstrate the current update mechanism.
Reserved for me
Looks good so far!
I would initially focus on included barebone (trusted) apps in the download manager (with auto-update notification functionality) and eventually branch it out to 3rd party apps...
This notion in general is the one (and only) thing that the iphone has over all other devices currently
great idea
PorX said:
Looks good so far!
I would initially focus on included barebone (trusted) apps in the download manager (with auto-update notification functionality) and eventually branch it out to 3rd party apps...
This notion in general is the one (and only) thing that the iphone has over all other devices currently
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Currently, there are nine applications I've built from the Diamond 2.03 ROM (the Blackstone Manila is from mun_rus), and no form of update function has been implemented.
All the icons and images are the ones the Diamond Comm Manager uses, so changing them changes the skin in this.
Anyone have any ideas for what kind of data base I should use? So far, everything is hardcoded!
looks very nice and clean, as a past nokia user i used to use nokias download manager, maybe you could have folders on the opening/main screen and have dif things also like games, themes, wallpapers etc but keep the folders etc in with the style of manila like uv done so far, very good work, keep it up.
regards,
biggzy
Nice work mate.
Glad to see MS havn't put you off with their Sky*** stuff
How about colaborating with CRC and his Device Update stuff? He has a killer back end that use Geo Balanced FTP Servers. The client just makes HTTP requests and the server returns XML.
Me and Chainfire were working on it with him, but Chainfire got busy and we were waiting for a "grand design" from him.
Just a suggestion...
Dave
DaveShaw said:
Nice work mate.
Glad to see MS havn't put you off with their Sky*** stuff
How about colaborating with CRC and his Device Update stuff? He has a killer back end that use Geo Balanced FTP Servers. The client just makes HTTP requests and the server returns XML.
Me and Chainfire were working on it with him, but Chainfire got busy and we were waiting for a "grand design" from him.
Just a suggestion...
Dave
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That sounds cool...
A nice back end would be good (I have an ini, some hardcoded variables, and download files directly rather than HTTP requests because my current host can't deal with them!)
Also, there is a cab attached to the first post.
Read the warning!
You never stop
Hi l3v5y,
You never stop. You are developing a new action screen, this download manager now. What will be the next? ;-)
Both tools are great. Thanks!!
Regards
elparra72 said:
Hi l3v5y,
You never stop. You are developing a new action screen, this download manager now. What will be the next? ;-)
Both tools are great. Thanks!!
Regards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had two days off school because of snow, so I released some things I'd been working on!
I do have a reworking of "ScrollLauncher" that I did some time ago, and I need to make iShell work better!
But, what could I do next instead?
Just realised the version of Opera I uploaded was a QVGA one, so you'll need eyes like a hawk and pointy fingernails to use it... I'll fix that later though.
PDM
I actually use and like the pdm software that comes inside the TIR rom
eurorpeen said:
I actually use and like the pdm software that comes inside the TIR rom
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In what ways is it better or worse than this? It would be nice to get some feedback on it in comparison to this...
Cool.
This app will build a APPSTORE for Diamond.
Hi,
what about to build a kind of appstore with a much bigger database with possibility to filter applications by device compatibility? I have the database
Feel free to contact me if you are interested.
worki2k1 said:
Hi,
what about to build a kind of appstore with a much bigger database with possibility to filter applications by device compatibility? I have the database
Feel free to contact me if you are interested.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are a few things I need to work on in my frontend (categories, sorting the list, kinetic scrolling etc), and then I need to find a fast, lightweight database system before I can consider having a decent database.
I have tried to contact CRCinAU (DeviceUpdate) and there's some discussion about the Gecko database, which may be potential backends. The thing I don't want to end up with is a completely seperate system. I think to be able to distribute apps in a decent, managed way, all the frontends need to work with a single unified backend, so developers can submit their application once, and only once.
isn't this illegal, providing those cabs?
Richardprins said:
isn't this illegal, providing those cabs?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What CABs?
Dave
Make your Xperia X1 Optimized and Faster
Hello guys I'm here to share to you how to make your X1 faster ( I mean not oc'ing) to make it responsive and play 3d games faster. For example when I'm running Flight Commander on stock X1 driver it is laggy and I cannot almost play the game, when I installed the Omnia Drivers and with a little performance tweak you can make it faster and responsive and of course PLAYABLE.
Software Needed:
1. SJ Samsung Omnia Driver D3D
2. Advanced Configuration Tools V3.3
Installation
1. Install Samsung Omnia Driver cab
2. Beam or put the 3 files on your memory stick or phone then run the EXE(advanced configuration tool v3.3)
Advanced Configuration Tool
For advanced configuration tool here is the snapshot of the registry edited.
(under performance)
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
Soft Reset, then feel the your new xperia
Credits:
Thanks to TouchXperience for the Advanced Configuration Tool
and to the one who ported the OMNIA driver d3d
Disclaimer:
You are responsible for your system. Before editing the registry files take note of the default values. This tutorial made my xperia x1 faster however there may be conditions such as the rom used (I used 826X rom) of course we are free to try. On whatever rom.
I will post the before and after video later (I don't have time making it. )
and of course It is important to have your feedbacks thanks.
I appreciate the work! A good result on my X1, running Energy GTX. No problems with stability either.
buck naked said:
I appreciate the work! A good result on my X1, running Energy GTX. No problems with stability either.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice! you tried it? the results are awesome right? if not awesome still better. Right? One of the reason I love my xperia. Although SE made f8ckng drivers, yet people here in xda find solutions to their problems. thanks for trying and for the feedback.
Energy Roms already have Advanced Config Tool installed, is it really necessary to use the attachment?
And btw isnt there already a discussion abt graphics drivers where several benchmark reports are already posted as feedback?
thanks in advance for any reply
nah. this is a combo. I mean I don't see any topics which uses this two. So basically I tried and I compared from stock. Btw. Idk if energy roms have one. of course it is the same as long as the settings modified is it?
thanks for sharing, but missing screenshot with settings.
Missing snapshot.
So-so. I've installed Sample 3D applications. Run they all. Almost all OK.
Billboard app runs nice.
Then I installed Omnia Driver 'n' reboot.
And? Billboard app runs SLOW AS HELL!
I sure it is not perfect drivers for X1.
henryfranz2005 said:
nah. this is a combo. I mean I don't see any topics which uses this two. So basically I tried and I compared from stock. Btw. Idk if energy roms have one. of course it is the same as long as the settings modified is it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol a combo? To begin with the Samsung D3D driver is only software rendering since are processors don't have that type D3D. Their are definitively better drivers and like MR. Black'd said there is already threads about different drivers for the MSM 7200A .
Viper89 said:
Lol a combo? To begin with the Samsung D3D driver is only software rendering since are processors don't have that type D3D. Their are definitively better drivers and like MR. Black'd said there is already threads about different drivers for the MSM 7200A .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
maybe it worked differently for our devices btw I'm just sharing it. )
hm so which one is the best driver for the xperia x1?
and is there also a better sounddriver for clear sound( when recording videos etc)
would be cool when viper or someone else help
Works on my X1!!
thexmaster said:
Works on my X1!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and is it really faster and better?
this may have some effect on stockrom, but on a good custom rom it will rather break things. in the past 2 1/2 years i've seen every cook come back to x1-drivers sooner or later.
when it comes to drivers, ultrashot's roms are the nonplusultra. he's done a great job in optimizing them. as a bonus, if you don't like his ready roms, you can get his kitchen as a base. takes some time to learn if you always just used cabs by others, but it's worth it! nothing beats your own, personal rom.
best start with modifying a rom and then work your way up to making your own, removing and adding packages as you see fit.
It fast thank for share
caliban2 said:
this may have some effect on stockrom, but on a good custom rom it will rather break things. in the past 2 1/2 years i've seen every cook come back to x1-drivers sooner or later.
when it comes to drivers, ultrashot's roms are the nonplusultra. he's done a great job in optimizing them. as a bonus, if you don't like his ready roms, you can get his kitchen as a base. takes some time to learn if you always just used cabs by others, but it's worth it! nothing beats your own, personal rom.
best start with modifying a rom and then work your way up to making your own, removing and adding packages as you see fit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
is it possible to play nfs shift without lag on the xperia x1 with this driver here?
i have a normal stock rom but i dont wanne destroy something when installing a new driver
a) dunno
b) i'm not gonna flash stockrom and test nfs with this driver for you
c) nfs shift is aimed at devices like hd2 (hardware...)
d) how you're gonna emulate g-sensor? (i can see you already stumbled on this yourself)
e) try a rom by ultrashot (i've never seen better hw-accelerated vid-playback than with his x1-drivers)
edit:
f) tried the game. animations looked slightly laggy, yet still driveable to me. but i can't really say because all i did was crashing along the side. and that's because you can't stear without a g-sensor. no option to change controls ingame, in reg or in a file.
just remove the files: smiHapticsServer_1.dll and SmiSensorServer_1.dll from windows directory. Now you can play the game by pressing j and k for left and right and d for drift.
it works fine,its just a little laggy
Stock Rom, got slower in launching apps, switching screens, briefly freezes sometimes..of course idk the reason..
**** i have a big problem with my X1...i installed the omnia graphic driver it was ok but not that good and in "device info" it was on 528mhz but in wimospeed on 672 like all the time i use it.i thought when i uninstall this cab,there is no graphic driver anymore,so i started spb backup to make a backup from yesterday to get the old settings back..then i made a restart...
after restart windows mobile starts but
the graphic looks wrong,to small,he doesnt find the storage card anymore so 90 % of my programs doesnt work and i cant do a backup again...i had the cab from omnia d3d on my device so i tryed to install this again but it failed..i couldnt install the cab
what can i do,is there a solution without a hardreset,cause i have important stuff on the phone
what does i have to do PLEASE GUYS give me an advice/answer!!!
thank you
This may be my first post, although I've been lurking since the wallaby days. I've made quite a bit of use of the hard work of a lot of good people without contributing anything, and I thank you all. This is my way of returning the favor, in a small way.
I have quite a lot of Linux experience, and a certain amount of embedded systems experience, and I hope to straighten out a few things that may be holding you all back. There is a lot of guessing in the forums about how and why different combinations of WM roms, radio, and Linux kernel have their effect on how your Linux/Android setup functions. A lot of these guesses are quite thoughtful and well reasoned, yet wrong. Keep guessing anyway. That's the starting point to figuring things out.
I'm giving you an overview of how these types of things run. I'm not on the htc-Linux project, so I might flub up on a point or two (everyone guesses a bit) but I think you will fine this brain dump useful. Many of you know some or all of this, but many others don't.
In the beginning, there was the phone. And it was good.
Then, came the radio, and it was cool. Then came the computer, and it was way, way cool. Finally, someone but all of them together, and the pda/phone was born. And it was so amazingly cool that geeks like me had to change their shorts. But the focus of our attention here, is the computer part.
A computer, from a hardware point of view, has these parts: Non-volatile memory, which keeps its data when the power is off, Volatile memory, which doesn't, and a CPU that crunches all this data. Why don't they just use non-volatile memory for everything? Because volatile memory is fast. Really fast. Orders of magnitude faster than non-volatile memory (although people are working on changing that).
The reason your HD2 can run Android so fast when it runs off the non-volatile SD card, is that the programs, including the OS kernel, from the slow non-volatile memory are copied to the fast stuff, and run from there. So really, It doesn't run off the card. It loads from the card (making boot-up slow) and runs off the volatile memory (making operation fast).
Currently, the Linux kernel is not using the non-volatile memory in the phone itself to store the operating system like WM does. People are working on this, but it is a lower priority job, because the ability to load off the SD card, without flashing your rom every time you make a change is the most powerful development tool they have. It does have pitfalls, however, which we will get to later.
From a software point of view, (and I'm really simplifying) there is the kernel, which runs the show, the drivers (many of which live in modules, but lets ignore modules for now), the programs, and the data space.
The kernel controls file permissions, handles the larger aspects of memory use, switches between processes, and handles input and output and all the boring crap that makes things happen behind the scenes. The kernel, for the most part, is very similar across the range of phones with the same CPU chip type, but since much of the other hardware is so different (otherwise they would all be the same phone), drivers are written for the different hardware. By the way, the Linux kernel does not use WM drivers in any way. It can seem so for reasons that we'll get to soon, so I'm not saying its all in your head.
The programs are obviously the apps you use, and also certain system programs that the kernel uses for it's own nefarious purposes. Android is really just another program that the kernel runs, just like Sense on WM, except much cooler.
The data space is memory set aside for the data that the kernel and the other programs process. Variables in the programs are stored in the data space on the volatile memory. There can be many separate data spaces, but at this point talking about that is not helpful.
Now things get interesting. Volatile memory loses everything in it when the power goes off. On many systems, this means all the memory is zeroed out. Any memory that is not specifically written to, is zero by default. The kernel for the HD2, is a modified version of a kernel written for another machine. As are some of the drivers, and other miscellaneous stuff. On the other phones, the kernel and some of the data space are loaded immediately at start-up, into freshly zeroed out memory. On the HD2, the kernel is loaded from the card into memory that's been shaken and stirred quite a bit already. If the programmers are just a little bit sloppy in forgetting to initialize all their variables, then variables that they are counting on to be zero, might instead be full of all kinds of leftover crud in the data space of the HD2.
I suspect that many of the problems people have with one WM rom and not another, are due to the different roms leaving different crap behind them when they are overwritten by the Linux system. If a feature works with a certain WM rom it may be that the developers are testing it with that rom, or one very similar.
Another reason that your WM roms, radios and even registry settings might have effects on the Linux system is simply because the HD2 has a lot going on besides the CPU. Other tasks are handled by other, very separate systems using other chips. An example is the radio controller, which is where your radio flash file goes. It is a separate processor (although it can be on the same physical chip). WM and Linux can tell it what to do, and a little bit of how to do it, but all the actual cellphone stuff is handled by the radio controller on its own.
The operating system can interact with these guys, and change their settings, but otherwise doesn't have any control over how they operate internally. Changing operating systems without powering down, as the Linux/Android system currently does, won't have any effect at all on these systems, which will continue to work the way WM told them to. In fact, the kernel developers might be quite happy to let things retain their WM settings, until they get around to fixing up drivers for this stuff. Different WM roms set things up differently. This is why it may appear that the Linux kernel is using WM drivers, when it's really just making use of their after-effects. This is also why running CLRCAD.exe in WM gives you sound in Android.
Well, that's all I've got. It won't make that robot voice go away any quicker, but at least you have a general idea about why its there.
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Great write-up.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
Thanks for the brain dump. It was very interesting and gave me an idea of how this all works!
Good to read that!! Loved it. Thanks for your time
very very interesting. Thank you for your thoughts on the matter.
And Dont be A lurker dang it. We need more thinkers like you!
very interesting read, thank you
i Learned alot at school today
no !! seriously this helped me alot, especially the clrcad.exe part i always wondered if Linux shuts down WinMo then how does clrcad.exe gives u sound in android .
you didn't explain it as i expected but thanks it's cleared alot in my mind
sterz85 said:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh wow, your funny. Really, Im in bits here.
Great write up OP
Nice one OP, thanks!
One of the consequences of this bit of info would be that a NAND version of an Android build wouldn't improve battery life substantially. If most processes already run from volatile memory in the present situation the only difference would be faster boot times. Or am I misunderstanding something?
Furthermore, the new EVO builds do support the lightsensor. But only if you enable it in WM first (so I read). Another one is maximum volume. If you don't set it to max in WM it won't get very high after booting into Android.
Does this fit within the picture you sketched?
Very authoritative and excellent write up.
please take the leisure of having more time and
inform this community of "how things work"
Many thanks.
Good read. Thanks man.
ming of mongo said:
". . . . . Now things get interesting. Volatile memory loses everything in it when the power goes off. On many systems, this means all the memory is zeroed out. Any memory that is not specifically written to, is zero by default. The kernel for the HD2, is a modified version of a kernel written for another machine. As are some of the drivers, and other miscellaneous stuff. On the other phones, the kernel and some of the data space are loaded immediately at start-up, into freshly zeroed out memory. On the HD2, the kernel is loaded from the card into memory that's been shaken and stirred quite a bit already. If the programmers are just a little bit sloppy in forgetting to initialize all their variables, then variables that they are counting on to be zero, might instead be full of all kinds of leftover crud in the data space of the HD2.
I suspect that many of the problems people have with one WM rom and not another, are due to the different roms leaving different crap behind them when they are overwritten by the Linux system. If a feature works with a certain WM rom it may be that the developers are testing it with that rom, or one very similar.
Another reason that your WM roms, radios and even registry settings might have effects on the Linux system is simply because the HD2 has a lot going on besides the CPU. Other tasks are handled by other, very separate systems using other chips. An example is the radio controller, which is where your radio flash file goes. It is a separate processor (although it can be on the same physical chip). WM and Linux can tell it what to do, and a little bit of how to do it, but all the actual cellphone stuff is handled by the radio controller on its own.
The operating system can interact with these guys, and change their settings, but otherwise doesn't have any control over how they operate internally. Changing operating systems without powering down, as the Linux/Android system currently does, won't have any effect at all on these systems, which will continue to work the way WM told them to. In fact, the kernel developers might be quite happy to let things retain their WM settings, until they get around to fixing up drivers for this stuff. Different WM roms set things up differently. This is why it may appear that the Linux kernel is using WM drivers, when it's really just making use of their after-effects. This is also why running CLRCAD.exe in WM gives you sound in Android. . . . .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I take this to mean that we have to do Task 29 everytime we try a new build?
jigners said:
I take this to mean that we have to do Task 29 everytime we try a new build?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Would that not be null and void though as:
WinMo leaves crud behind on the RAM that upsets Android's kernel - that we know. If we task29 the memory and then we reflash with the same WinMo version there will be the same crud left on the RAM. Also as a WinMo reboot zeros the RAM (from the SPL / HSPL) before booting up, so once WinMo has booted the memory map is reset for Android.
Or thats how i understand what he is saying, so the only time a task 29 is useful is if changing from one version of WinMo to another and not when changing Android ROMS. If a WinMo version is compatible with Android then a task 29 is not needed when changing from one version of Android to another, unless the requirements for Android change and you need to load a new version of WinMo
If only half of the forum's members read your post OP. If only...
Needless to say that the OP is excellent. I jumped on the Linux bandwagon back in '96 when things were a lot harder to understand and the learning curve was a lot steeper. To cut things short this is exactly how the Linux kernel works and this is exactly why this post should be a sticky
And to answer a few more questions, yes, a Task29 followed by ROM flashing AND a Hard Reset is highly recommended, and a full format of your SD card as well.
That was definitely an EXCELLENT informative post for all of us who may have no understanding or complete misunderstanding of how all of this works. We greatly appreciate you taking the time to explain.
panosg1977 said:
...
And to answer a few more questions, yes, a Task29 followed by ROM flashing AND a Hard Reset is highly recommended, and a full format of your SD card as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i think i'm missing something here. why hard reset is needed after task 29 if the later formats the memory?
thanks,
antaed
antaed said:
i think i'm missing something here. why hard reset is needed after task 29 if the later formats the memory?
thanks,
antaed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My mistake there . A hard reset is entirely optional. Sorry about that.
ming, thank you for the excellent write up. I have been searching for this for months.
One question, apart from overwriting, can a wm rom significantly affect Android? For example, is a "lite" wm rom better than a full Miri rom? It seems to me that basic wm services run in all roms therefore a lite rom would make little difference. Thank you!!!
panosg1977 said:
My mistake there . A hard reset is entirely optional. Sorry about that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No need to be sorry mate, I really thought there was something I didn't quite get right about that.
Cheers
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App
This program is found in the depths of the internet, and would like to share with you, because it deserves attention.
I hope the author will not be offended.
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View attachment Process.Viewer.WP8.xap
spavlin said:
View attachment 2635723
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So nice . well done .
no Interop Unlock Needed and works very smooth and very fine .
Tested on Lumia 920 RM-821 .
Whoa, very cool! Mind sharing the source, or at least the technique used? I tried this months ago and concluded that apps could only see processes running in their own chamber. Even adding ID_CAP_FOREGROUND_TASK_MANAGER only helped a little (let me see the debugger when it was running, not much else). You managed to get a *ton* of info using only completely ordinary capabilities, and I'd really like to know how!
Thanks for sharing the app, though.
Oh, and however you're managing to open handles to system processes, how much access do those handles have? In particular, can you use debug APIs? I really doubt it, but it's totally worth trying... because if it is, we've got arbitrary root.
GoodDayToDie said:
Oh, and however you're managing to open handles to system processes, how much access do those handles have? In particular, can you use debug APIs? I really doubt it, but it's totally worth trying... because if it is, we've got arbitrary root.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
reker written this programm)
...:laugh:
Working with my Lumia 925 :good:
Long time i've not been around, and suddenly found this really interesting thread (i'm playing with a lumia 920) i've been able to rebuild the application (generate source from xap) and found some interesting things, there are 2 dll that contain the process tools, one wrapper for them and one dll that is used to "protect" the application:
Win32ProcessWrapper_RT.winmd: wrapper for: WP8ProcessUtils.dll and WP8NativeShellHelper.dll
Win32ProcessWrapper_RT.dll : checks for the publisher id and application id (without that, it disables the dll call's
But the really really interesting part is that there are some functions not added in the wrapper but available on the WP8ProcessUtils.dll, not sure if it's due to elevation required or maybe for another reason (as far as i can see it is able to gain access out of the sandbox so elevation should not be an issue, but who knows, i'm not an expert on that)
here are the functions inside the WP8ProcessUtils.dll
and as you can see, they are not present in the wrapper:
I've attached the VS solution reconstructed from the xap (code is not something to say "ohhh" but it works ), maybe someone can take a look and see if the wrapper could be rebuilt to use the missing functions.
Salu2!
Interesting! I'd looked at the exports, but I hadn't caught the same things you had. The WP8_* functions are odd; Win32 doesn't use the "FindFirst/FindNext" paradigm for processes, so far as I can tell. However this app enumerates processes, it's doing something funky. It doesn't even call EnumProcesses, not that this surprises me terribly (since that API won't return any processes outside your AppContainer). The presence of multiple Open* (as in, WP8_OpenThread, WP8_OpenThread2) functions is intriguing. One can safely presume that one of them is the standard Win32 APIs (OpenProcess, OpenProcessToken, and OpenThread are all imported from kernelbase.dll). The question is, what are the other ones? Even "guessing" process IDs doesn't let you use OpenProcess on them...
All the interesting stuff seems to be in the native code (no big shock there, really). Gotta get that source...
Apologies for failing to notice the bit about finding (rather than writing) this app. I've emailed the dev.
GoodDayToDie said:
Interesting! I'd looked at the exports, but I hadn't caught the same things you had. The WP8_* functions are odd; Win32 doesn't use the "FindFirst/FindNext" paradigm for processes, so far as I can tell. However this app enumerates processes, it's doing something funky. It doesn't even call EnumProcesses, not that this surprises me terribly (since that API won't return any processes outside your AppContainer). The presence of multiple Open* (as in, WP8_OpenThread, WP8_OpenThread2) functions is intriguing. One can safely presume that one of them is the standard Win32 APIs (OpenProcess, OpenProcessToken, and OpenThread are all imported from kernelbase.dll). The question is, what are the other ones? Even "guessing" process IDs doesn't let you use OpenProcess on them...
All the interesting stuff seems to be in the native code (no big shock there, really). Gotta get that source...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are right, there is some sort of "voodoo" hidden in that dll, but based on the level of "protection" the application has (for a lack of other term) i'm not pretty sure the dev would be willing to release that portion of the code (he wrote one wrapper to interface a dll that checks developer id in order to allow the app to use the exports, too much work for something that you are willing to release, and also a very good strategy to prevent MS/Nokia to patch it)
Maybe our best shoot is with someone with better ida - hex ray experience (for sure any experience is better than mine )
Cheers
---------- Post added at 03:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:34 AM ----------
GoodDayToDie said:
Whoa, very cool! Mind sharing the source, or at least the technique used? I tried this months ago and concluded that apps could only see processes running in their own chamber. Even adding ID_CAP_FOREGROUND_TASK_MANAGER only helped a little (let me see the debugger when it was running, not much else). You managed to get a *ton* of info using only completely ordinary capabilities, and I'd really like to know how!
Thanks for sharing the app, though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Btw, as i said, i'm not an expert on wp applications (just got the wp8 a couple of weeks ago) i've tried to add that capability on the application but says "invalid" is there other way to add it besides WMAppManifest? (additional files, etc.)
Thanks!
No. You can use it on capability-unlocked phones, but not on standard dev-unlock.
I'm not great with IDA but I can use it. It'll just take longer :/
Pretty sure most of the code isn't that exciting anyhow - I've written apps that get all that info once given a process handle - but getting those handles (to anything but your own process) is the hard part. We Shall See.
GoodDayToDie said:
No. You can use it on capability-unlocked phones, but not on standard dev-unlock.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I only have development unlock and the app worked on my WP8.1 Nokia.
GoodDayToDie said:
I'm not great with IDA but I can use it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm good at IDA but don't know ARM assembly at all
GoodDayToDie said:
getting those handles (to anything but your own process) is the hard part.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Looks like to enum processes, this app just tries sequential process IDs, tries to open it, checks for status code.
Why snapdragon s4 has only 1.2 GHz clock??
What does that have to do with this thread, and why'd you post in a six-months-dead thread anyhow?
because i have joined, this forum 6 day ago