Database Users

Linux running on HTC Magician

Hallo
Possibly my question is silly, but I read several posts in this forum and did not find an answer.
Perhaps someone who know's what he's talking about can give me some lines on this:
Is it possible to get LINUX installed on the HTC Magician, somehow?
And: What would this be like? I only know Linux running (on) desktop machines, and I can hardly imagine Linux on a handheld/pocket pc. Are there distributions? Can SSH connection be done? Do I have the usual directory tree and kernel configuration?
It would be nice to give me some kind of crash-course like information.
Thanks,
Frank

There are two answers to your question..
The theoretical one:
Linux can run on almost anything that has a processor and some storage..
Linux can certainly run on any HTC device.
SSH would be possible and you will have the usual tree..
The real one:
No, there is no Linux for any HTC device that WORKS..
There are no distros, no SSH and no trees..
It is highly unlikely that we will ever see a Linux distro for the HTC devices.
Development takes too long, and the devices are incompatible with each other.
So distrodevelopment takes longer than HTC model development.
And nobodo wan't to continue working on an ANCIENT model.
There is a project that has started testing linux on the Wallaby..
You can read more about that in the Wiki..
I hope this answered your questions.

Bonzo said:
It is highly unlikely that we will ever see a Linux distro for the HTC devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have certainly have not seen these
pages
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=BlueangelResearch
http://handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/BlueAngel
and i can confirm that it is not made up.
With some small changes you can do the same
on Himalaya.

Fronk said:
Is it possible to get LINUX installed on the HTC Magician, somehow?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not right now. There is some information
about this device in wiki. You can provide more
info by running haret from
http://sdgsystems.com/pub/ipaq/hx4700/starterkit/20050611

cr2 said:
You have certainly have not seen these
pages
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=BlueangelResearch
http://handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/BlueAngel
and i can confirm that it is not made up.
With some small changes you can do the same
on Himalaya.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are absolutely correct!
I've only read the Himalaya part, and I have not seen any activity regarding Linux on the boards..
That's why I made my statement..
Good that you could correct me!

Could anyone offer a progress report?

Hi, this is my first post on this forum, so feel free to delete it if I obey any rules, which I believe I don't.
I'm absolutely new to the PDA thing, I never had one, I never held one, and according to that, I never used one.
I think about buying one, but I still have too many unasked questions no one yet answered.
I definately don't want to use Windows on this one. So if there is a, let's say, chance higher than 50% that I won't be able to get Linux working on it, I simply won't buy it.
What I searched for and what I still need is an elaborated progress report, of how stable, fast and reasonable a HTC Universal can be used along with Linux. I'm so newbie that I don't even know if it will be able to do phone calls with Linux installed...
My provider is T-Mobile germany, and I could get one (called "MDA Pro" or "MDA IV") for 133€ (about 1:1 dollar, correct me if I am wrong)
I would get the "MDA Vario" for about 1€, but I cannot figure out the real model name, here is a picture:
http://www.audioelektronik.com/images/MDAVario.jpg
But back to my question: Who can offer a progress report? It would be perfect if the author would be at the same provider as me, but it's not really important. I also accept any provider proposals, as well as PDA proposals. I just thought of the Universal because I like the feature list and keyboard, but it won't be a problem to use a touchscreen exclusively.
So how usable is the HTC Universal with Linux? What can I do and what can't I?
You don't have to answer me myself if my questions are, at least partially, covered by a website. If you have any beginner information about installing, using and developing Linux on and for PDAs, I would love to see them.
If anyone prefers to contact me via ICQ, he is welcome to, I listed my number.
My jabber ID is: [email protected]

Hi,
we are doing our best to get Linux working on MDA Pro
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=UniversalProgress

Splendid, fast reply and good link. I'm sorry I couldn't find it. Anyone who is capable of it; feel free to delete this thread.

futlib said:
Splendid, fast reply and good link. I'm sorry I couldn't find it. Anyone who is capable of it; feel free to delete this thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can watch the detailed progress or help in this Thread
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=35972&start=800

Hm, I would like to get in touch with development, but I cannot find a detailed introduction focused at newcommers in the development forum.
I never used assembler on a PPC, and though I wanted, I never wrote a Linux kernel module.
This is off-topic in this forum, but do you have a link?
Also great would be an universal emulator to try out ROMs and work on them a little. Is anything available/in progress/planned?

futlib said:
Hm, I would like to get in touch with development, but I cannot find a detailed introduction focused at newcommers in the development forum.
I never used assembler on a PPC, and though I wanted, I never wrote a Linux kernel module.
This is off-topic in this forum, but do you have a link?
Also great would be an universal emulator to try out ROMs and work on them a little. Is anything available/in progress/planned?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First of all, you should go around the corner, find the next T-Mobile shop and by your MDA Pro device :`)
After that, you can follow the instructions installing Linux on a SD Card from the wiki page. The first link, i gave you.
After that, you can ask more questions in the "Linux on Universal" Thread :`)
Maybe if you are familar with Linux, you can help building a rootfs image.

futlib said:
I never used assembler on a PPC, and though I wanted, I never wrote a Linux kernel module.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You don't need to. The main problems are in the hardware
area, wince driver operation, nice wince GUI installer,
nice windows GUI installer, fixing bugs in Qt programs.
Also great would be an universal emulator to try out ROMs and work on them a little.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We are testing everything on the real hardware.
Creating a device "emulator" is even more complicated
than fully porting Linux.

Okay, I think I'll really buy one.
I added you to ICQ EyeOfTheStorm, since I have some more questions and really don't want to flood the forum. Just greet me if you online, and if it doesn't bother
<edit>
Programming GUI programs is indeed my task at work atm, I think I could be of help in that part. I mainly use C and C++ and python. But I'll first need to buy my PDA, so...
</edit>

futlib said:
Okay, I think I'll really buy one.
I added you to ICQ EyeOfTheStorm, since I have some more questions and really don't want to flood the forum. Just greet me if you online, and if it doesn't bother
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ups, my ICQ is depricated. Will never go online. So, if you have aditional Questions, ask in the Linux on Universal Forum.

Is there an IRC channel?
(this thread is so much of a chat ;D)

So, I'm only one step away from buying my device.
Now I only have some last questions I need answered before I buy it:
The root filesystem HAS to be on SD/MMC Cards <= 1024MB.
How do you guys exchange music etc.? Can I really not install the root filesystem on the internal memory of that device? Would 128 MB be enough?
I'm warned that my device could be damaged. If so, would the providers warranty apply? Or does it expire if I change the operating system?
The mini-howto tells me to do a backup, but I cannot find an explanation of how to do this.
I think it should just be a dd of the device when mounted on my workstation, but I prefer to have an explanation anyway.
Would I be able to reinstall this windows CE whatever thing whenever I want if I do a backup?

futlib said:
So, I'm only one step away from buying my device.
Now I only have some last questions I need answered before I buy it:
The root filesystem HAS to be on SD/MMC Cards <= 1024MB.
How do you guys exchange music etc.? Can I really not install the root filesystem on the internal memory of that device? Would 128 MB be enough?
I'm warned that my device could be damaged. If so, would the providers warranty apply? Or does it expire if I change the operating system?
The mini-howto tells me to do a backup, but I cannot find an explanation of how to do this.
I think it should just be a dd of the device when mounted on my workstation, but I prefer to have an explanation anyway.
Would I be able to reinstall this windows CE whatever thing whenever I want if I do a backup?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As far as I know, we still have the 1GB SD Card limit. Yes, you have to install the rootfs on the SD Card. 128 MB are enough for hosting the basic rootfs image.

Well, I just bought this device. I will get it on the 20. of juni. (It's my birthday, and this is no coincidence ;D)
There is only one thing left of this list I really need to know:
Can I reinstall this windows CE thing?
I will perhaps hit a situation were I need something fully functionaning ASAP, so I'd love to know.
But I allready bought it, this is just important for my decision to install Linux on it. If I can somehow backup or reinstall this windows CE thing, I'll definately follow the guide and help development as good as possible for me.

I got my device, followed the guide, installed opie and gpe on it (first tried opie, didn't like the look and then switched to gpe. Found out that GPE cannot manage the universals monitor-spin and switched back to opie.) and now I have got everything up and running.
Couldn't find anything non-working yet too, though I still need to figure out how to make (at least the keyboard layout) german.
Now I also know that Opie/GPE can coexist with WinCE without problems, which makes me very happy.
But there is one thing that still bothers me:
I cannot go online via GPRS or make/accept phone calls when Linux is booted.
Is this possible at all? Neither Opie nor GPE do seem to have any software for doing a phone call.
Is there a guide on how to set up telephony and GPRS internet?
<edit>
Found some funky new resources:
http://handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/Universal
Is the page I have been searching for a while and
#htc-linux (@freenode)
is the channel I have been searching for a while.
The guys just told me that it is not (yet) possible to do phone calls, but they are working on it. I will try to compile and make the winCE installer working now.
</edit>

Development resources?

I'm a c# dev wanting to start developing for my phone (kaiser)
Wondered if you guys could point me in the right direction ..
would love any links to development resource websites?
would love to do something with my touchscreen

Google,
MSDN,
etc,
etc....

Rhapsody said:
Google,
MSDN,
etc,
etc....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks
theres a lot of crap out there and i was kind of hoping for more useful response than that

Hi cameronm,
I'm not a great PPC developer but I found that there were three things that helped me get started. First if you're a C# developer you have to understand how where the entry point of your program is and how to instansiate and start a new form.
- Microsoft.Net Mobile development Handbook (2007)
- MSDN has hundreds of PPC development examples....it may take you a little while to get to know your way around but it is really valuable.
- Developing for Smartphones (2007)
sorry I couldn't find the authors. I started beginning of November with absolutely no C# or PPC or VS2005 experience....only what I learned from TAFE with C++ and Java being my strong points.
Here's what I've learnt from those resources above.
Write a custom SMS program.
Create a custom call initiate program.
Create a custom email program.
Pocket Outlook Contacts managment
Picture resizing
Basic Animation
Splash Screens
Custom buttons with my images
Multiple form applications
Player for Embed Shockwave swf files
Recursive directory searching
Reading and Writing to files
Creating fullscreen applications
The list goes on....
Google the above and see how you go...
Regards,
Slither2006.

cameronm said:
thanks
theres a lot of crap out there and i was kind of hoping for more useful response than that
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Therefore I gave you this response. A developer can find the needed resources by searching. There are plenty of usefull resources out there.
Putting your question over here, sitting back and relax while waiting for an answer is not really the way to go, I think.
I don't say that you do this, but your post did not say anything else to me.
http://forums.microsoft.com , http://www.msdn.com

Rhapsody said:
Therefore I gave you this response. A developer can find the needed resources by searching. There are plenty of usefull resources out there.
Putting your question over here, sitting back and relax while waiting for an answer is not really the way to go, I think.
http://forums.microsoft.com , http://www.msdn.com
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i was merely asking a forum of developers what they considered to be decent resources for wm development .. on a dev and hacking forum .. seemed like a resonable question

cameronm said:
i was merely asking a forum of developers what they considered to be decent resources for wm development .. on a dev and hacking forum .. seemed like a resonable question
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If I look at your first post, I'm not very convinced.
But anyway; I'd like to visit the forums of MSDN: http://forums.microsoft.com
It has a special section for developing for devices.

Rhapsody said:
If I look at your first post, I'm not very convinced.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We you oviously read more (or possibly less) into it than i intended.
i'm fully aware of the microsoft site ... i was more interested in places like codeproject etc but more geared towards pocket pc development where i can pick up examples, tips and read white papers on developing for the pocket pc ..
i just assumed that this would be an ideal place to ask ... i may well have been mistaken!!

most of the coding is general and c++ and c# code can be reused on pocketpc's
www.codeguru.com have some toturials i've linked to before about pocketpc today screen coding and the likes

Rudegar said:
most of the coding is general and c++ and c# code can be reused on pocketpc's
www.codeguru.com have some toturials i've linked to before about pocketpc today screen coding and the likes
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks i'll take a look there

Running Android on Hermes

Hi guys,
I saw some forum topics about running succesfully running google's android on the kaiser and the vogue!
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=383695 (Kaiser)
and
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=382265 (Vogue)
The source for all those things is this page,
http://it029000.massey.ac.nz/vogue/
see here for an video on the kaiser...
http://echofloripa.blogspot.com/2008/04/android-in-kaiser-t-mobile-mda-vario.html
Do you think some linux experts are capable of running it on the hermes(tytn)?
I am not an expert on this, but i tried the Kaiser files on the hermes, but it didtn load the kernel right..
You dont have to flash your hermes for this, only running an exe on the hermes....!

TripleQ said:
I am not an expert on this, but i tried the Kaiser files on the hermes, but it didtn load the kernel right..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you will compile the kernel for Hermes, you can probably start the android runtime.

this will be cool....
keep us informed

cr2 said:
If you will compile the kernel for Hermes, you can probably start the android runtime.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i'm a newbie in linux but i'll try to search about it. i think that in POF's web are a hermes linux kernel...

Yeah the idea off running android on the Hermes is very cool!
I dont have the knowledge to get this working...but the guys from the kaiser and the voguage(touch) forums where capable enough let it work..
Is anybody here smart enough for this?

ilion said:
i'm a newbie in linux but i'll try to search about it. i think that in POF's web are a hermes linux kernel...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting...here's POF's Linux thread started in 2006 and still active!
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=273579

Any news?
I have seen compiled versions of the kernel for the Kaiser and the Vogue, but if anyone has a compiled kernel for the Hermes I willl test it out (I have three at home )

And the wait continues . Now with the Android developer challange closing Im despirate to get Android on my Hermes before it finally dies after being dropped for the 200th time.

The major boos tint his will be when the memcard drivers are written - the Hermes is low on RAM as far as I understand, and thus has problems. Once everything can be run from the card, it will be pretty trivial for someone who know what they are doing to recompile the kernel.
Doesn't seem to be much recent progress though!

Seemingly I can't spell.
It doesn't look like it is going to be easy getting this working as the controller for the mem card on the Hermes is apparently causing some trouble!

Hi there,
nikc0069 said:
It doesn't look like it is going to be easy getting this working as the controller for the mem card on the Hermes is apparently causing some trouble!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's not all!
There are some information that all the android stuff is compiled for ARMV5.
So no chance to drive the hermes with the packages provided.
HTC Kaiser also uses some newer instruction set.
If you got enough spare time, try to compile some of the android packages for ARMV4. That's what hermes is running.
Anyway, there's a lot work to get a suitable linux on hermes.
There had been some breaktrough on universal. Check that out!
Full debian EABI running on this platform!
It was console based first, but there had been a lot of development in the last few month and it has grown to a very useable linux
Hopefully there would be some usable linux on hermes platform too!
There's so much information so far...
...and it is similar to the openmoko stuff.
Maybe we should not waste the time to focus on android.
Regards,
scholbert

Any news?

I want Android for my Hermes

hmm
what?? hmm ... drools
I had just been browsing the web and thought I better keep an eye out for this ... looks awesome.

Looks like a lot of guys have been working to get Android on the TyTN II and just yesterday they were able to make/recieve calls. Im sure once a lot of the bugs are worked out, it can be ported over to the Hermes.

......mmm
Hi,
AdamNimrod said:
Looks like a lot of guys have been working to get Android on the TyTN II and just yesterday they were able to make/recieve calls. Im sure once a lot of the bugs are worked out, it can be ported over to the Hermes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that's the theory so far.
TYTN II is equipped with a newer ARM11 with a V5 instruction set (MSM7500) for system OS. Android has been designed to run on these new processors.
Fantastic work had been done by those guys to make it run!!!
TyTN uses older instruction set... i wrote this before.
Anyway, if there'll be some mods in the source code it perhaps will do some day.
Another complex part is all that GUI stuff. There's nothing to be found about the ATI 2282, the hermes is using for graphics.
Due to this fact there's only a very simple framebuffer in the current linux port for hermes, no ATI specific code for the GUI.
Maybe some of the masterminds out there will solve this issue some day .
At least i'm very interested in some source code for the ATI Imageon 2282 !
Anyone???
scholbert

scholbert said:
Another complex part is all that GUI stuff. There's nothing to be found about the ATI 2282, the hermes is using for graphics.
Due to this fact there's only a very simple framebuffer in the current linux port for hermes, no ATI specific code for the GUI.
Maybe some of the masterminds out there will solve this issue some day .
At least i'm very interested in some source code for the ATI Imageon 2282 !
Anyone???
scholbert
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.umpcportal.com/products/product.php?id=55
if that is correct info athena has this same ati chip. And when I looked at the Athena/Android project, someone has allready made something with graphics. Look at this post:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=393389
it says graphics done!
Hope this helps in any way.

Hi sniveri,
thanks for the links.
...if that is correct info athena has this same ati chip. And when I looked at the Athena/Android project, someone has allready made something with graphics. Look at this post:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=393389
it says graphics done!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HTC Athena uses ATI W2284. Maybe this part is very similar to W2282 on hermes.
Anyway, if you have a look in the patch, they also use vsfb (very simple framebuffer) driver for graphics.
This is the same like hermes, maybe it's O.K. for testing.
There's not much ATI specific code inside.
Still would enjoy to have a look on some ATI imageon driver code
Regards,
scholbert

I have unpacked two initrd-images and tried to found out what those contains. First one that works on hermes has init-file that is straigth link to /bin/busybox. After starting busybox it continues to inittab script to set environment settings or so I think.
Second initrd-image, that is made for kaiser or vogue, has someway compiled init file or something that I can not edit with any program..? It would be nice to know what scripts or commands this file contains.

Wow，it is cool.
I hope some expert can make Android run on our phone.

Tynt with linux how to?

Hi all
i would want change on my tytn SO with Linux
I thought change with android of google or other distribution linux.
suggestions?
thanks
D

Linux on Tytn is still in developement and shouldn't be attempted by someone who has no idea what they are doing... So saying, use the search function for linux on hermes and I'm sure you'll come up with something... May even be able to help crack that nut..
Cheers...

Here's the main thread that's been around for a while...read the posts for the challenging details.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=273579