Database Users

removing camera

Hi,
I'm about to receive my Wizard soon, it's the 100 Model that Vodafone germany sells. Since I can not use a camera, and no provider hat the 110 model, I will try to remove the camera and get the back cover of a 110 model or a dummy. So my main questions are:
did anyone yet disassemble the wizard? Is it easy? pictures?
And which company sells a 110 version that I can get the back cover as service parts from? So far it seems Cingular has it as 8100, but I can't see anything on their site since one has to log in it seems...
Lars

I'm confused.. if you don't want to use the camera, then why not just not use the camera? Or do you need it at work, and work has a "no camera phones" policy?

exactly, guess I didn't make that clear enough, I'm not allowed to have a camera phone at work (and I don't want to switch devices all time).

a couple of people here..
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=31755
..did take theirs apart, at least a bit. There's even some images - but they're broken - and a bit of description on: http://www.howardforums.com/showpost.php?p=6298030&postcount=27
Here's one of the pictures...
http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=377474
But it doesn't show much with regard to taking the wizard apart

Thanks, that helped at least so far that I know about the screws to lose and how to open it... Will have to figure about the lens etc. when I have my hands on.

Before you go butchering a new device (which might cause problems the hardware complaining it is missing something), why not just try the rear cover from he other model before you remove the camera.
Another other option would be a small bit of plastic to secure over the hole in the covering using something like Bostick All Purpose. This would be removable if required.
One more thought is to buy the non-camera one from another network and unlock as required.

Of course I will try first without removing anything... My guess though from pictures is, that the lens will protrude too much for the other cover to fit. I hope that the ccd is soldered directly to the pcb, while the lens is clipped on, that would myke it easy, and no "hardware" would be really missing. And it would be reversable as well. Have to see that when I got the device.
Believe me that I did a really good search for the 110 model, but I couldn't find it, only one was Cingular, where I would have to buy it for full price, compared to paying ~200 US$ for the subsidized one here...
Now I only need a way to get service parts from singular

Your job sucks. I am glad I don't have that problem. Eventhough I don't use the camera very much, every now and then I do take a few.

his employer may also not be satisfied with just having the cover over it (if it did fit).. as taking a picture would just be a cover-removal away ( okay, okay.. bunch of screws.. but you could leave those out and pretend there's no camera %) )

actually my job is quite cool, and I hate all those handy-cams... I have a digital SLR and if need be a small casio if I want to take pictures...
From my view the providers are responsible for the current situation, as they want to earn on those MMS messages...
I for my part just need a smartPHONE or pocketpcPHONE. And if we're really honest, those pictures taken with GSMs are mostly horrible

Most, yes... However.. S/E k750i/w800i, Nokia N9x-series, Samsung whatchamacallit... all have quite reasonable 2MP cameras, and better is coming up (with telescoping lens and all that, as can be seen on many of the very thin consumer cameras).
It's not just the providers - it's people as well.. I have a very nice DSC V-3 myself for my photography stuff, but I don't lug it with me as it's fairly big. But even if it were one of those thin cameras, I'd be lugging around both a phone -and- a camera. If I can have both in 1 device, then why not? That's the argument for a PDA with GSM as well, isn't it? Not having to carry around both a PDA and a phone ? :>

sure, true as well... of course there's always different views on that... I'm just referencing the *current* quality of the pictures, and without a optic zoom and a reasonable flash, they just don't work for me... and of course I like the all-in-one thing... though GPS would be more important to me And I alos wonder, since everything is more or less modules these days, they could just (like with the HTC 100/110 or HP 6500/6900) make models with and without camera. From observing a bit, I think the need for phones without camera is quite big in enterprise environments...

Well.. once upon a time, there was the SD card. With it came enough bus bandwidth and whatnot to create the SD I/O standard. You could buy a little camera SD I/O thing, plug it into your PDA/phone, and you had an added camera. GPS ? Ditto - GSM ? Yep. WiFi ? Absolutely. All at the same time? maybe not, but not impossible.
Problem is that you'd be stacking devices, which isn't very attractive
Of course, on the manufacturer end, you can drop features from a 'high end' model and sell it as a 'lower end' model - like the WIZA100 and WIZA110 for camera/cameraless (or the other way around). But then there's the question of it actually being available to you
I'm curious, though - if you knew that your employer doesn't allow camera phones, then why not get a PocketPC phone without the camera -other- than the Wizard?
( I assume they exist :x )

There's a few I know of. Currently I have a 9210 Nokia communicator, but I want to get away from "proprietary" systems (Windows seems to be more open in this case). The upcoming Sony-Ericsson M600 (?) seems to have the same problem. And then there's the HP 9500/9800 series, but those are a) expensive, since nearly no provider takes them in their program, and they have a 240x240 resolution, which also can make problems.
The HTC Wizard just is the perfect device for me, and obviously it even seems to exist in a version without camera

TauTau - if you're still reading, check:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?p=244134#244134
For pictures of the device taken apart. And guess what? Looks like the camera is a module you can just 'unplug' Good luck!

great info, thanks!

tynt with integrated gps

I cant beleive the trinity will not have a keyboard. This still leaves on my quest to find the perfect device. Instead of waiting for HTC i decided to do some looking around. I found this gps receiver. http://www.pocketgpsworld.com/holux-gr240.php . I was wondering if it would be possible to input this inside the tytns casing. Its been a while since my electrical courses but i think the logic would handle the power issue if we got rid of the battery and just piggybacked it off the tytns board.It even has a slider switch so it would be easy to input it somehwere out of the housing. has anyone ever opened up a tytn and seen if theres any space to fit the gps anteena and the baord. any comments?

benfica88 said:
I cant beleive the trinity will not have a keyboard. This still leaves on my quest to find the perfect device. Instead of waiting for HTC i decided to do some looking around. I found this gps receiver. http://www.pocketgpsworld.com/holux-gr240.php . I was wondering if it would be possible to input this inside the tytns casing. Its been a while since my electrical courses but i think the logic would handle the power issue if we got rid of the battery and just piggybacked it off the tytns board.It even has a slider switch so it would be easy to input it somehwere out of the housing. has anyone ever opened up a tytn and seen if theres any space to fit the gps anteena and the baord. any comments?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hi, not opend my tytn yet...
but i dont think theres any space free...
not so much like the platine and the cabels and the antenne needs...
maybe when there is an big accupack available like von the vpa compact 2 with a bigger accucover then you have space...

I was looking at the 8525, it's rumored to have the front camera removed, maybe some space opened up there...

Guys, come on!
Some of the best new GPS receivers are TINY!
I've got a GlobalSat BT359, and you could velcro attach it to the back of your TyTN. It wouldn't look any bigger than a phone with an extended battery. BTW, I didn't choose the BT359 for size (rather for performance). I'll bet you can find smaller still...

goestoeleven said:
Guys, come on!
Some of the best new GPS receivers are TINY!
I've got a GlobalSat BT359, and you could velcro attach it to the back of your TyTN. It wouldn't look any bigger than a phone with an extended battery. BTW, I didn't choose the BT359 for size (rather for performance). I'll bet you can find smaller still...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ya, but I don't want to velcro it there. I want my phone to still fit in my leather holster. If we can get it onto the board you also don't have to worry about charging to devices as the gps will piggyback power off of the tytn.

Good luck with that!

goestoeleven said:
Good luck with that!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've done a lot harder projects than this!

Well, in case anyone is still paying attention to this, ive gotten one step closer to maybe getting this to work. I ordered a gpslim 240 and checked out it guts. Ive succesfully got it to run off a k-jam battery. My concerns were the voltage being 3.7 to 3.3 on the gps. Everything works out fine and the logic on the board seems to handle evrything else. The only problem so far is stuffing it into the case. i opened up my k-jam case and there seems to be some room in there,but im waiting for the 8525 to test. I tried to get it in my buddys 6700 but there is no room in there at all. Hopefully the tytn is more like the k-jam and some space is availble. Hopefully all said and done with removing the stock gps battery and stuffing it into the tytn board, there will be only one device to carry and charge.

Remember to take pictures while you are doing all this!
It will make me cringe to see a tytn pulled apart like this but I see want to see it

yup,plan on taking lots.just need cingular release the 8525 already! i would feel more comfortable doing this with insurance.

you are joking about the insurance aren't you? there is no way an insurance company would ever pay out if you broke your phone whilst trying to mod it. Unless of course you're thinking of "losing" the phone should it break.

herman3101 said:
you are joking about the insurance aren't you? there is no way an insurance company would ever pay out if you broke your phone whilst trying to mod it. Unless of course you're thinking of "losing" the phone should it break.
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Click to collapse
exactly... ive never had insurance before, but apperently this is one of the best benefits of the program that im mising out on.

8525 Camera
The 8525 has the front camera covered up by the faceplate -- the camera itself is still there, just hidden. They also disable it in their ROM...
(At least that's the case when it comes to the 8525 I saw last week -- we stuck a pocketknife blade under the adhesive metallic faceplate and peeled it up a little)
So.. you're not gaining any extra space under there for a GPS receiver.

benfica88 said:
exactly... ive never had insurance before, but apperently this is one of the best benefits of the program that im mising out on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately, Cingular doesn't offer insurance on PDA phones. You'd have to go with a third party company like SafeWare or your homeowners/renters insurance.

Wow, this would be very cool indeed!
I guess with the 8525, if the front camera is disabled anyway, you could just remove it yourself and free up some space for the gps unit. I own a vario II with the front cam enabled, but if i could replace it for a GPS i'll readily do it.
Good luck & keep us posted!

Breaking news on GPS capabilities: The TyTN is verified to have a Qualcomm MSM6275 radio chip. Here's a quote from Dr. Sanjay K. Jha, executive vice president and president of QUALCOMM CDMA Technologies with regards to the MSM6275:
...This integrated solution also includes support for QUALCOMM's gpsOne(R) position location technology....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What is gpsOne? Here:
http://www.cdmatech.com/products/gpsone.jsp
Now for the kicker. The MSM6275 is one of the most advanced GPS enabled radio chips that Qualcomm makes. It has fast satellite acquisition, standalone mode and enhanced navigation support built in. Here's the datasheet describing this:
http://www.cdmatech.com/products/gpsone.jsp
The relevant table is on the last page.

jmat said:
The 8525 has the front camera covered up by the faceplate -- the camera itself is still there, just hidden. They also disable it in their ROM...
(At least that's the case when it comes to the 8525 I saw last week -- we stuck a pocketknife blade under the adhesive metallic faceplate and peeled it up a little)
So.. you're not gaining any extra space under there for a GPS receiver.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hmm...do you think this could only be pre-production models? I could always remove the camera, seems it would be a while before its widespread over here
Unfortunately, Cingular doesn't offer insurance on PDA phones. You'd have to go with a third party company like SafeWare or your homeowners/renters insurance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Crap, ill juts have to be more careful!
And in terms of the qualcomm chip, from what ive seen there no antenna in the tytn. So is this traditonal gps,agps, or something new?

@benfica88: see the latest comments in this thread, it is being discussed / researched over here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=279151

So who wants to dismantle their 8525

A while back there was a rumor that the video camera was still in the 8525 but they just covered it up with the new silver bezel - anybody care to dismantle to prove/disprove this rumor?

Why would they cover it?

Seemed silly to me to but there were rumors 3 or 4 weeks ago that's what they did. I think the basics of it was that their network wasn't up to snuff for the video so they covered the camera (being cheaper then redesign?) so people wouldn't complain about the extra camera which they couldn't use. I think it's bunk but curious - I don't recommend anybody tear apart their 8525 - I doubt it's there but if you're feeling reckless and want to destroy your new $600 toy - let me know if you find the camera!

It is possible.

chymmylt said:
Seemed silly to me to but there were rumors 3 or 4 weeks ago that's what they did. I think the basics of it was that their network wasn't up to snuff for the video so they covered the camera (being cheaper then redesign?) so people wouldn't complain about the extra camera which they couldn't use. I think it's bunk but curious - I don't recommend anybody tear apart their 8525 - I doubt it's there but if you're feeling reckless and want to destroy your new $600 toy - let me know if you find the camera!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now I'm just wondering whether some of the more expert folks here could work this one out without dismantling. The coolcamera programme can utilise the front camera as a webcam. Obviously there would be no picture if the camera is covered but I wonder what the programme will do if the camera is not present. Clearly a message saying camera not present would be handy but if it freezes or behaves strangely (some error message) that might be another bit of evidence suggesting the camera is absent. Perhaps someone with device could try using coolcamera to see what happens on front camera setting?
Just a thought
Mike

That's a great idea.

I just tried what you guys suggested with the coolcamera app and when I switched the sensor from main to front, I got a black screen. Of course this would make sense since it is covered up but I didn't get any error message.
Today while looking at the phone more closely, I noticed there is sort've a "flatness" or outline on the bezel where the front camera would be.
I'm a believer that the camera is still present on the phone...just disabled and covered up by the metal bezel on the 8525. I also agree with the fact it wouldn't make sense to redesign the phone just to remove the camera. Instead they could do it cosmetically, in this case, with the metal bezel that is on the 8525.
Assuming that the camera is still present, I'm hoping that a third party company (or HTC) can make a replacement bezel with the front camera opening.

That is amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't break open those 8525s just yet...
Notice that even when you completely cover the main camera lens, you can still see colors when you cycle through the special effects (sepia, cool, negative). When you switch to the front camera and cycle effects, you get nothing (the screen never changes from black). If the front camera were present, the negative effect at least would be dramatic.
-Sar

Good point Sarumiso. I just tried changing the effects and nothing changed. It could mean that the camera is just disabled, though. Won't know for sure until someone opens up their phone.

cellnut said:
Good point Sarumiso. I just tried changing the effects and nothing changed. It could mean that the camera is just disabled, though. Won't know for sure until someone opens up their phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good points being made. An error message might at least have suggested camera is not present, unfortunately no errors does not prove things one way or the other.
Mike

so im an avid 8125 guy with my 8525 on the way, will be here tomorrow... anyway, lets pretend for a moment the cam is there, then its more than likely disabled in the cingular rom... would it be possible to flash an actual tytn rom to get the front camera support, then try the testing with the software and cycling through the colors? just a thought

cellnut said:
I just tried what you guys suggested with the coolcamera app and when I switched the sensor from main to front, I got a black screen. Of course this would make sense since it is covered up but I didn't get any error message.
Today while looking at the phone more closely, I noticed there is sort've a "flatness" or outline on the bezel where the front camera would be.
I'm a believer that the camera is still present on the phone...just disabled and covered up by the metal bezel on the 8525. I also agree with the fact it wouldn't make sense to redesign the phone just to remove the camera. Instead they could do it cosmetically, in this case, with the metal bezel that is on the 8525.
Assuming that the camera is still present, I'm hoping that a third party company (or HTC) can make a replacement bezel with the front camera opening.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or just take a dremel to it.

here is an idea... is the service manual out there? like one specifically for the 8525, it may tell whether it exists or not. or what company actually does the repairs for the 8525, maybe we contact them and find out... or if all else fails then the manual would give instructions on how to take it apart...

"...anyway, lets pretend for a moment the cam is there, then its more than likely disabled in the cingular rom... would it be possible to flash an actual tytn rom to get the front camera support, then try the testing with the software and cycling through the colors?..."
shogunmark---will you be testing this theory of yours? I would try this myself but I'm too much of a nb to even attempt changing the ROM. Have to read up on all the how to threads. =)

well, i probably will, but its gonna a little while before i can do that, i havent even gotten my 8525 yet, fedex says it will be here tomorrow... i have alot more reading to do though... i am very familiar with cooking roms for my 8125, but from what i read so far it seems like the 8525 is a different animal entirely, so with my busy life its gonna take at least a week or 2 of reading before i make the venture

I've removed the two screws from the other side of the screen. Pried open the display case and bottom of it to about 1/8" and I could see that my phone does NOT have the front facing camera. It has the place for it, but definitely no camera. Would be nice to compare the Tytn's ie/mail/led pcb with the 8525s to see how they differ.

already done: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=284384

I've created a full housing swap to include the fron camera on my 8525. Tutorial includes full instructions with pictures included. See link below
http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=1152710&page=1&pp=15
so im an avid 8125 guy with my 8525 on the way, will be here tomorrow... anyway, lets pretend for a moment the cam is there, then its more than likely disabled in the cingular rom... would it be possible to flash an actual tytn rom to get the front camera support, then try the testing with the software and cycling through the colors? just a thought
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have everything ready to do this. Camera installed and all. I have unlocked my phone to update to any rom. I'm willing to give this a shot. I just need to know if I where to get the ROm to download. Tis swap is a compete resemblance of the Japanese versionof my 8525, its the htc Z from Japan. http://www.japan.htc.com/product_htcz.htm . I dont know if there is an english versionof this rom to download. I'm ready to do this for everyone I just need direction

It's a shame that those of us that do have the front facing camera that the phone lacks a front facing flash or LED. Would be very handy otherwise those times when the urge comes for yet another self portrait and it happens to be night . . .
(We do not have 3G here in Oman.)

Hermes 100 Housing

Hi,
any1 knows how to find (eBay preferably) an Hermes 100 full housing replacement?
I've got a Vodafone V1605 and so an Hermes 200 housing but i prefer Hermes 100 one.

You can easily find the not real display units for the 8525 on ebay. The only difference between those and a real one is the lack of hardware and the missing front camera hole

phate said:
You can easily find the not real display units for the 8525 on ebay. The only difference between those and a real one is the lack of hardware and the missing front camera hole
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Click to collapse
Sorry but i didn't understand what you said. I had to buy a mock-up of a 8525?
And for the camera hole?

This is what you need; http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/OEM-Housing-f...oryZ3728QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

TheBrit said:
This is what you need; http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/OEM-Housing-f...oryZ3728QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks man! That's what i need!
I've found somethinf similar (but dopod branded) @ http://cnn.cn/shop/htc-8525-c-277_322.html
But including shipping I think that your's cheaper.

phate said:
You can easily find the not real display units for the 8525 on ebay. The only difference between those and a real one is the lack of hardware and the missing front camera hole
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I bought one of these "display" units and they are NOT the same. They are much flimsier, the back door is fused on which means you can't take it apart without breaking it, the keyboard sliding mechanism is looser and not designed for repeated use, all of the buttons are fused to the outer case and are not real buttons, etc.
Do NOT buy the 8525 dummy case as a case replacement, I guarantee you won't be happy with the result.

Doom Tints said:
I bought one of these "display" units and they are NOT the same. They are much flimsier, the back door is fused on which means you can't take it apart without breaking it, the keyboard sliding mechanism is looser and not designed for repeated use, all of the buttons are fused to the outer case and are not real buttons, etc.
Do NOT buy the 8525 dummy case as a case replacement, I guarantee you won't be happy with the result.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks dude

Has anybody bought either of these? I'd be interested to know what the quality is like (I've bought a replacement for my wife's nokia N73 and it was very poor compared to the original...) Are they as good as the originals?
Also, I have a vario II which has a different button layout on the front - would the dopod example on cnn.cn still work with mine (I much prefer the button layout on that one to the vario one...)
Thoughts please everyone
Cheers,
Smiffy.

Lordsmiff said:
Has anybody bought either of these? I'd be interested to know what the quality is like (I've bought a replacement for my wife's nokia N73 and it was very poor compared to the original...) Are they as good as the originals?
Also, I have a vario II which has a different button layout on the front - would the dopod example on cnn.cn still work with mine (I much prefer the button layout on that one to the vario one...)
Thoughts please everyone
Cheers,
Smiffy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The different key layout is only in the outside but inside the PCB is the same.
I'm looking for Hermes 100 housing only for esthetical reason.

Pure/Diamond 2 Housing Swap?

Does anyone have any experience with swapping the housings between the 2? I am getting the Pure tomorrow but prefer the housing of the Diamond 2 whos full housing is available for purchase. Ive done a ton of swaps, even the iphone, but never between htc rebranded devices... any thoughts?

I'm not sure how well that is gonna work out for you. There are different things between the two of them. First the layout of the buttons. But that may not be a problem. The Unlocked Diamond2 has a front facing camera. So there may be an issue there. The device is curved differently so who knows it the Mini USB port will align right.
I'm sure that no one has done it since the Pure has only been out for a few days and some people that are getting it don't even know of the Touch Diamond2 or that the PURE is a Touch Diamond2. The T-mobile EU version is just like the pure but has a FF camera. So if anyone who has that phone and has done a swap can tell you for sure but I doubt it. There could be slight changes the just throw the entire thing off.

I was just thinking about that. I too prefer D2's design over pure's but I needed 3G. I've done many phone customizations and would definitely undertake this task if it's possible.

I think one of you should try and see if it's possible. There are TD2 Housings for sale on ebay. $20. Worth it if it works.
The $20 one may just be the housing. I asked the seller if its the complet 3-peice housing set. If not there are more for under $40 that show pics of the full set and say its the full set in the description. If you don't trust ebay go here and pay the full price. They have original OEM parts for almost any mobile.
CNN.CN

yeah i found the cnn one and will probobly end up doing that, from the pictures they look like they both have everything in the same places, except the front facing camera will not be there. I wouldnt be suprised if you could add that though during the swap...

76flip said:
yeah i found the cnn one and will probobly end up doing that, from the pictures they look like they both have everything in the same places, except the front facing camera will not be there. I wouldnt be suprised if you could add that though during the swap...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Any updates on the housing swap project? Was it do-able?
Just curious.

You will have to replace the digitizer as well. It's impossible to remove without damage. Also, be careful with the ribbon cables. You need to slide the black retainer slightly to remove them...

BTW....P.M. me if you get into it and get stuck or nervous. I have taken mine apart a good 5 times to get the dust out of it.

swap housing (front facing camera)
76flip said:
yeah i found the cnn one and will probobly end up doing that, from the pictures they look like they both have everything in the same places, except the front facing camera will not be there. I wouldnt be suprised if you could add that though during the swap...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have not opened my pure yet but I know past phones that AT&T left the front facing camera off the socket was on the board you just needed the camera itself and plug it in

did anyone try this yet? i really want to do it because the hard plastic gets scratched up really easily and the back cover is starting to look bad.

Ya the Pure is dog ugly compared to the Diamond 2 IMO...I doubt it will be possible though, to do that switch.

mastdesi said:
did anyone try this yet? i really want to do it because the hard plastic gets scratched up really easily and the back cover is starting to look bad.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You guys don't read do you?
Look at Tomtommy306's posts.