Database Users

Disabling the camera

Hi, over the last couple of weeks I have been asked by a couple of customers that I have visited to leave my XDA2 at reception, or put it in the car because it has a camera on it and they won't allow cameras, camera phones etc in the building because of security issues.
I'm running a trial for my company, which is thinking of replacing our rubbish Jornada 928's with a pda phone that actually works, but we need to have a permanant way of disabling the camera's, Orange & O2 say it cant be done easily does anyone have any ideas?
Thanks in advance

You could remove the camera software in the extended ROM image with the er2003edit tool.
Upgrade the XDA with the newly created ROM and gone is your camera.
Of course, this is a software solution.
Anyone who reads this forum and has some understanding of how things work, can get the camera back up and running in no time...
And how would you prove to a company that you visit the camera really isn't working anymore, even with the cam software removed? There's still a visible lens. If you were visiting my company, I wouldn't let you in with in, no matter if you say the cam is disabled.
Maybe you could paint the lens black :lol:
Grtz,
Jos

Thanks
Cheers Jos
I guess u are rigth about the 'proof' of disablement - I was kinda hoping - rather foolishly - that if it was possibel I could get Orange or whoever to supply a cirtificate of proof of diasablement, but I guess that won't be enough for most people - Probably have to weld a plate over the lens :lol:
But I guess this is going to become a bigger problem as time goes by & reception areas will have bins full of mobile phones, PDA's etc that people have been asked to surrender before entering - that will put insurance up :wink:
I'd be interested to hear about any other peoples experiences with problems in this area - we are looking to buy well over 200 of these things and if other people would find a no camera version uselful - perhaps we can get an official mod made?
Thanks in advance
Ross
T

Can't you just tape over it and show it has been taped up. I mean using the camera on these things make you stand out very obviously. *They'd* know you were trying to take a picture.
OR you could just lie and don't tell them about it at all.
OR get a case that completly covers the lens. Again taking it out of the case to try and get a sneaky shot is not easy.
Oh well.,

if the camera is not needen in any way (i think so) you can make the glass above the lense scratched up with a fiber stencil, so there cant be done photos anyway - that also can be demonstrated by startin the camera-app, and anybody can see, that taking photos is not possible anymore.

I am still using my old xda ebcase that covers the camera lense. If I want to take a picture I take it out. If not then I leave it in the case. Have been in a couple of places that say no pictures/no picture phones but I don't volunteer the information. I just go on about my business. So far no problems.

removing camera

Hi,
I'm about to receive my Wizard soon, it's the 100 Model that Vodafone germany sells. Since I can not use a camera, and no provider hat the 110 model, I will try to remove the camera and get the back cover of a 110 model or a dummy. So my main questions are:
did anyone yet disassemble the wizard? Is it easy? pictures?
And which company sells a 110 version that I can get the back cover as service parts from? So far it seems Cingular has it as 8100, but I can't see anything on their site since one has to log in it seems...
Lars

I'm confused.. if you don't want to use the camera, then why not just not use the camera? Or do you need it at work, and work has a "no camera phones" policy?

exactly, guess I didn't make that clear enough, I'm not allowed to have a camera phone at work (and I don't want to switch devices all time).

a couple of people here..
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=31755
..did take theirs apart, at least a bit. There's even some images - but they're broken - and a bit of description on: http://www.howardforums.com/showpost.php?p=6298030&postcount=27
Here's one of the pictures...
http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=377474
But it doesn't show much with regard to taking the wizard apart

Thanks, that helped at least so far that I know about the screws to lose and how to open it... Will have to figure about the lens etc. when I have my hands on.

Before you go butchering a new device (which might cause problems the hardware complaining it is missing something), why not just try the rear cover from he other model before you remove the camera.
Another other option would be a small bit of plastic to secure over the hole in the covering using something like Bostick All Purpose. This would be removable if required.
One more thought is to buy the non-camera one from another network and unlock as required.

Of course I will try first without removing anything... My guess though from pictures is, that the lens will protrude too much for the other cover to fit. I hope that the ccd is soldered directly to the pcb, while the lens is clipped on, that would myke it easy, and no "hardware" would be really missing. And it would be reversable as well. Have to see that when I got the device.
Believe me that I did a really good search for the 110 model, but I couldn't find it, only one was Cingular, where I would have to buy it for full price, compared to paying ~200 US$ for the subsidized one here...
Now I only need a way to get service parts from singular

Your job sucks. I am glad I don't have that problem. Eventhough I don't use the camera very much, every now and then I do take a few.

his employer may also not be satisfied with just having the cover over it (if it did fit).. as taking a picture would just be a cover-removal away ( okay, okay.. bunch of screws.. but you could leave those out and pretend there's no camera %) )

actually my job is quite cool, and I hate all those handy-cams... I have a digital SLR and if need be a small casio if I want to take pictures...
From my view the providers are responsible for the current situation, as they want to earn on those MMS messages...
I for my part just need a smartPHONE or pocketpcPHONE. And if we're really honest, those pictures taken with GSMs are mostly horrible

Most, yes... However.. S/E k750i/w800i, Nokia N9x-series, Samsung whatchamacallit... all have quite reasonable 2MP cameras, and better is coming up (with telescoping lens and all that, as can be seen on many of the very thin consumer cameras).
It's not just the providers - it's people as well.. I have a very nice DSC V-3 myself for my photography stuff, but I don't lug it with me as it's fairly big. But even if it were one of those thin cameras, I'd be lugging around both a phone -and- a camera. If I can have both in 1 device, then why not? That's the argument for a PDA with GSM as well, isn't it? Not having to carry around both a PDA and a phone ? :>

sure, true as well... of course there's always different views on that... I'm just referencing the *current* quality of the pictures, and without a optic zoom and a reasonable flash, they just don't work for me... and of course I like the all-in-one thing... though GPS would be more important to me And I alos wonder, since everything is more or less modules these days, they could just (like with the HTC 100/110 or HP 6500/6900) make models with and without camera. From observing a bit, I think the need for phones without camera is quite big in enterprise environments...

Well.. once upon a time, there was the SD card. With it came enough bus bandwidth and whatnot to create the SD I/O standard. You could buy a little camera SD I/O thing, plug it into your PDA/phone, and you had an added camera. GPS ? Ditto - GSM ? Yep. WiFi ? Absolutely. All at the same time? maybe not, but not impossible.
Problem is that you'd be stacking devices, which isn't very attractive
Of course, on the manufacturer end, you can drop features from a 'high end' model and sell it as a 'lower end' model - like the WIZA100 and WIZA110 for camera/cameraless (or the other way around). But then there's the question of it actually being available to you
I'm curious, though - if you knew that your employer doesn't allow camera phones, then why not get a PocketPC phone without the camera -other- than the Wizard?
( I assume they exist :x )

There's a few I know of. Currently I have a 9210 Nokia communicator, but I want to get away from "proprietary" systems (Windows seems to be more open in this case). The upcoming Sony-Ericsson M600 (?) seems to have the same problem. And then there's the HP 9500/9800 series, but those are a) expensive, since nearly no provider takes them in their program, and they have a 240x240 resolution, which also can make problems.
The HTC Wizard just is the perfect device for me, and obviously it even seems to exist in a version without camera

TauTau - if you're still reading, check:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?p=244134#244134
For pictures of the device taken apart. And guess what? Looks like the camera is a module you can just 'unplug' Good luck!

great info, thanks!

Camera Flash Item??

Why dont they make a flash tool that plugs into your micro usb port or replaces the battery cover, so we can finally take pictures with a flash?
I dont believe this would be too hard..would it?

Using flash takes away all shades and your pictures will look like 2D drawings. Applies to any camera off course

himalayasplaya said:
I dont believe this would be too hard..would it?
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Click to collapse
It would, as the USB port can't give any power.
Just get yourself a keychain flashlight... or even better, a camera.

darfri said:
Using flash takes away all shades and your pictures will look like 2D drawings. Applies to any camera off course
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Click to collapse
Uhhhhhhhhhhhh?

darfri said:
Using flash takes away all shades and your pictures will look like 2D drawings. Applies to any camera off course
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is the biggest crock of S*** I've heard in a while. I guess all of those professional photographers who use flashes are wrong, huh?

bluedragon1971 said:
That is the biggest crock of S*** I've heard in a while. I guess all of those professional photographers who use flashes are wrong, huh?
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Click to collapse
Which is better, a less than ideal photo (and I'm not a photographer so cant confirm the effects) or a far to dark/totally black photo?

I know NOTHING of programing these phones, but from a mechanical stand point, I'm not too bad. Is there anyway to trigger something out the USB port when the camera is ready to pop? Something so that the light doesn't have to be on constantly, but can come on only when the camera is ready to snap, like a standard digital camera works? I can probably fab up a back cover with a flash built into it...

Why is this an issue? I fail to see any correlation at all between the equipment used by a professional photographer, and the convenience of a simple 3MP snapshot camera included in your phone. You were given a suggestion that addressed your problem and apparently you were quite upset by it. So, my turn... This IS NOT a 10 - 12 MP Canon, Nikon or Leica! Its to snap a quick shot of something for later reference - an event, a schedule, a location, a photographic note, if you will. The camera in your phone is not the primary device or function of your phone - its an 'added function' that can be effectively used as intended, or complained about by those that can't fully appreciate its capabilities!
Oh, and those professional cameras listed above don't make or receive phone calls, don't have e-mail or voicemail capabilities, don't play my mp3s or videos, can't use wifi to browse the internet or for online banking or for etc., store GBs of data other than pics & video, function as a gps unit, open or edit my Office docs, use text messaging, or play a myriad of games! And yet they cost from $699 to $999 apiece! How do those manufacturers' sleep at night? And you won't find a forum for support anything near as intense and complete as the XDA-Developer's Forum - all for what you can afford to donate!
Now I don't mean to preach, so here's examples: instead of a daily to-do or task list, I can take a quick series of photos to remind me! Pix of ATM card to remind me to go to the bank, of a loaf of bread or carton of milk to remind me to hit the grocery store, of the Suburban's front end to call for an appointment to get the front-end aligned, of the dog to remember his vet appointment, and of a document I need to complete by end-of-business! Those pix are worth a thousand words, and the time it would take to write detailed notes to myself! Then simply delete photos as tasks are completed! Too cool! At the store over lunch and see a new Sony LCD HDTV you like? Take a photo of it, along with the pertinent sales tag info, and research it later at home on the internet! Meet someone you haven't seen in a while? Take a photo to remind yourself to tell the wife that night, with that picture to enhance your tale! Need to match paint for a room in the house with the colors of the furnishings or rugs? Take a series of pictures with you to the hardware store. Take a photo of a suspicious vehicle 'just in case'? An accident, a surprise event, a crime or disaster? You at least have the camera in your phone - its way better than no camera at all. For your 'Keepsake Memories' get a decent camera, complete with a flash!
Hope this helps put things in perspective for you.
BTW, this was a rant - not a discussion or an argument, so keep your opinions to yourself. I've said what I wanted to say!
BigDad_1

When I started this thread I did not intend it to go out of control. I was just wondering if anyone knew where to get one or how to make one.
This is more along the lines of what I was looking for, except for the Kaiser instead of the iPhone: http://www.techeblog.com/index.php/tech-gadget/snaptureflash-gives-iphone-makeshift-camera-flash

I think a new back cover that has a built in flash would be awesome. If someone makes one, and it works, I'll certainly buy one.
I think about how much I miss my flash on my old phone all the time. That was a huge blunder leaving it off the Kaiser. Even if you never use a flash on your pictures, it was a handy flashlight. But it was certainly nice to have a flash for pictures too.

himalayasplaya said:
When I started this thread I did not intend it to go out of control. I was just wondering if anyone knew where to get one or how to make one.
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Don't worry, the thread isn't 'out of control' you just need to take heed of what kilrah has already posted. The USB port on the Kaiser isn't a host port so it doesn't (and cannot be made to) behave like an ordinary USB port on your PC (well not without some serious electronic redesign work far beyond what we as non phone designer sorts could come up with). Other options must be investigated.

Was the USB comment directed at me? I was just wondering if there was a way to trigger the flash 'remotely'.
as for some sort of add on flash, my dad has made several LED units, self contained, that fit in a 3/4 inch copper pipe cap. Mostly made of brass, it includes a switch and is heavy. He used it as a night lite for something like 7 days str8 on a single 2032 battery. Granted, it is not sleak, but it was self contained.
The main problem with a 'flash' is that the camera app wouldn't be able to process the picture any faster (focus on it and make adjustments for light) before snapping it because the camera app wouldn't know that a flash would be coming soon to compensate for a flash... unless we have a camera programer in our midsts? Or, can a camera app be ported from a flash enabled device, or do the OEM flashes stay on as long as a flash is called for, so there is no 'compensation' per se?
I am getting ready to purchase a TyTN II parts phone, I'll have to see what I can do with it. I've got a few ideas up my sleave. Does anyone have what the Proprietary USB B port pin out is, both sides of the tongue?

if anyone makes this invention i will gladly buy it from them ASAP

Heh, I've started working on it... at this point, I'm not working on making it interface with the camera, it will have an external switch and be something you turn on when you want it, and could also be used as a flashlight to light your way in the dark...
I am also toying with having it light up when ever the camera is in use, but I need to find a dead kaiser (the phone I own, so the phone I'm developing for) in order to work on some sort of interface for automatic operation...
Anybody got a Kaiser with a crushed screen and case that I could tinker with? *grins*

SaltyDawg said:
I think a new back cover that has a built in flash would be awesome. If someone makes one, and it works, I'll certainly buy one.
I think about how much I miss my flash on my old phone all the time. That was a huge blunder leaving it off the Kaiser. Even if you never use a flash on your pictures, it was a handy flashlight. But it was certainly nice to have a flash for pictures too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
/agree
I used the flash on my S710 as NIGHT LIGHT all of the time. I think an external flash able to slide in an touch the battery contacts would be cool. Een if you had to turn on the light by a little switch built into the back cover. 5V should be MORE than enough power to light up maybe 3-5 small LED lights. Even if they werent connected to the cam directly, im sure it would help a lot in low light situations. Just my 2 cents I like this idea

I am in the process of comunicating with LED suppliers, and will begin mocking something up here in the coming weeks... I'll keep you posted.
A couple of questions for potential users... What is better, to make a cradle to slip the phone into, to make the components fit completely with in the format of the phone now, or to make the phone slightly larger (like an extended battery pack)?
The advantage of a craddle is that it can be put on and removed fairly quickly... Downside is that it would be hardest for me to make... (grins)
The advantage of the lights fitting within the format of the phone now is that you don't have to have something extra, or an extra large phone, to carry around. Perimatly mounted, and ready to go at all times... the down side is reduced performance because of no extra batteries, and possibly fewer LEDs, and the fact that the owner of the phone would possibly have the hardest time installing it.
The advantage of an extended battery type back cover is that you can get extended battery usage (by use of separate batteries for the LEDs), and nice balance between easy on/easy off and size... the downside is that the phone would be slightly larger, and you would have to carry the extra back cover if you didn't always want the phone bigger, but wanted the option for a flash.
The cradle idea would be the most expensive by far, and quite probably out of my reach at this time.
The extended back and original size formate are going to be fairly close in price I have the feeling.
The extended back will probably be the easiest to build, but personally, I'd rather not use that style.
So, what do _YOU_ think?

I think Mag light and all problems solved
Seems alot to do for a camera that isn't very good anyway, but good enough for snapshots.............. After all it's not an SLR..............

The best one, in my opinion, would be an entirely new battery cover that had LED lights mounted in it, and was not any bigger than the original battery cover.
Something that is permanently mounted, and basically a part of the phone, and not making the phone any bigger (it's already a brick). Maybe a little larger than the regular battery cover, but not a lot. Hopefully not enough to notice. I'm not worried about battery life as this would only get used for a few minutes every day (at the most).
I don't know if that is even possible, but if it is, I'll take 4 of them.
Nobody ever uses an external GPS receiver, so maybe the stuff could go in right there?

stylez said:
I think Mag light and all problems solved
Seems alot to do for a camera that isn't very good anyway, but good enough for snapshots.............. After all it's not an SLR..............
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, a maglite would work... but I take many photos with my camera when I can't put both hands in position to illuminate the subject and hit the shutter... I go to the car salvage yard alot, and if I can't see a part good enough from my vantage point, I'll hold my phone up and snap a picture from there to see if it is worth digging for, for example.
As for it not being an SLR, MOST digitial cameras are NOT slr... and MOST people do not shell out tons of money for an SLR. If you don't like the camera phone, that's fine... you can carry a second item. For the rest of us, we'd like to improve on a decent useable camera, so we will, Thank you.

SaltyDawg said:
The best one, in my opinion, would be an entirely new battery cover that had LED lights mounted in it, and was not any bigger than the original battery cover.
Something that is permanently mounted, and basically a part of the phone, and not making the phone any bigger (it's already a brick). Maybe a little larger than the regular battery cover, but not a lot. Hopefully not enough to notice. I'm not worried about battery life as this would only get used for a few minutes every day (at the most).
I don't know if that is even possible, but if it is, I'll take 4 of them.
Nobody ever uses an external GPS receiver, so maybe the stuff could go in right there?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hehehe, my wife never uses her GPS at all, but I use an antenna adapter from Wilson Electronics along with a mini whip antenna with a magnetic mount... it go from 1-2 bars on a bad day (with TomTom Navigator 6), to a full count of 5 bars... unplug the antenna, and it goes back down, plug it back in, and it bounces back up...
I've looked into using that area, but it really doesn't afford much in the way of space, and I'm not too keen on modifying the original fabric of the phone itself, it just doesn't seem 'right' to me.
Your vote has been tallied.

Pure/Diamond 2 Housing Swap?

Does anyone have any experience with swapping the housings between the 2? I am getting the Pure tomorrow but prefer the housing of the Diamond 2 whos full housing is available for purchase. Ive done a ton of swaps, even the iphone, but never between htc rebranded devices... any thoughts?

I'm not sure how well that is gonna work out for you. There are different things between the two of them. First the layout of the buttons. But that may not be a problem. The Unlocked Diamond2 has a front facing camera. So there may be an issue there. The device is curved differently so who knows it the Mini USB port will align right.
I'm sure that no one has done it since the Pure has only been out for a few days and some people that are getting it don't even know of the Touch Diamond2 or that the PURE is a Touch Diamond2. The T-mobile EU version is just like the pure but has a FF camera. So if anyone who has that phone and has done a swap can tell you for sure but I doubt it. There could be slight changes the just throw the entire thing off.

I was just thinking about that. I too prefer D2's design over pure's but I needed 3G. I've done many phone customizations and would definitely undertake this task if it's possible.

I think one of you should try and see if it's possible. There are TD2 Housings for sale on ebay. $20. Worth it if it works.
The $20 one may just be the housing. I asked the seller if its the complet 3-peice housing set. If not there are more for under $40 that show pics of the full set and say its the full set in the description. If you don't trust ebay go here and pay the full price. They have original OEM parts for almost any mobile.
CNN.CN

yeah i found the cnn one and will probobly end up doing that, from the pictures they look like they both have everything in the same places, except the front facing camera will not be there. I wouldnt be suprised if you could add that though during the swap...

76flip said:
yeah i found the cnn one and will probobly end up doing that, from the pictures they look like they both have everything in the same places, except the front facing camera will not be there. I wouldnt be suprised if you could add that though during the swap...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Any updates on the housing swap project? Was it do-able?
Just curious.

You will have to replace the digitizer as well. It's impossible to remove without damage. Also, be careful with the ribbon cables. You need to slide the black retainer slightly to remove them...

BTW....P.M. me if you get into it and get stuck or nervous. I have taken mine apart a good 5 times to get the dust out of it.

swap housing (front facing camera)
76flip said:
yeah i found the cnn one and will probobly end up doing that, from the pictures they look like they both have everything in the same places, except the front facing camera will not be there. I wouldnt be suprised if you could add that though during the swap...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have not opened my pure yet but I know past phones that AT&T left the front facing camera off the socket was on the board you just needed the camera itself and plug it in

did anyone try this yet? i really want to do it because the hard plastic gets scratched up really easily and the back cover is starting to look bad.

Ya the Pure is dog ugly compared to the Diamond 2 IMO...I doubt it will be possible though, to do that switch.

mastdesi said:
did anyone try this yet? i really want to do it because the hard plastic gets scratched up really easily and the back cover is starting to look bad.
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You guys don't read do you?
Look at Tomtommy306's posts.

Front Camera

Anyone notice that it looks like the hardware for the front camera is there on the vibrant? Any chance that could be activated and used with a new rom?

Lol, it's not a FFC.

Apparently you skipped over the stickied thread at the top that says "Read Before Posting" ...this has nothing to do with development.
But to answer your question, that isn't a camera. It's a proximity and light sensor.

When I first looked at my phone out of the box, I was REALLY excited about that as well.
Than my brain kicked in out of my geek coma I was in and realized that it was just sensors.
Reports and reviews from overseas basically say the FFC is basically a POS and really never gets used much for anything.
Basically it's about as powerful as a gameboy camera with ****ty resolution.
I don't miss it.

Someone please delete or at least lock this thread.

androidmonkey said:
Anyone come up with a mod yet to solder LED light on the back of the camera?
Hell, lets make it with 3 LEDs, convert the prox sensor to a FFC, and finally dip the phone in stainless steel so we can have a metal coating....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haha better yet gold so its balling out of control. but where are all the rom files i just got rid of my hero and used to flash that thing everyday people need to step it up and get workng on some roms so i can test them and see whats good or bad with them.

From what i am told. The little thing on the front of the phone is a proximety sensor and something else. I always thought it was the cam. and we just had to enable it
but, I guess thats not the case.

HI,
Unfortunately, the front camera does not exist on the vibrant or captivate.
The camera hole would be located to the right of the speaker slit.
There is no hole there.
Probably left out to reduce costs.
It is only on the euro models.

jgimpact said:
Anyone notice that it looks like the hardware for the front camera is there on the vibrant? Any chance that could be activated and used with a new rom?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
can understand your excitement OP, but alas!

Thread moved to General, cleaned, and closed.