Hi,
I decided to post this after 100+ hrs of struggling with so called native VoIP feature in WM6.
Firstly, there are some extremely valuable threads in this forum already, the best of which being probably:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=299950
Secondly and lastly: the marketing trick about "Built-in VoIP in WM6" is nothing more than that (google the Web and you'll see what kind of proud statements can be found).
Someone out there in MS completely disrespect the customers saying all this. A more truthfull statement could look like: "Integration of VoIP features in Windows Mobile has been attempted for the first time (ever). However, so far it is all unreleased, alpha-stage development which may come to a business-grade usable outcome somewhere late 2008".
Reasons for that are very simple:
Even WHEN someone by any chance, luck or more by black crafts manages to make a test call with this integrated VoIP-crap (which is neither too easy nor really reproducible - I made it - 3 times in more than 200 attempts with various configs and DLLs and reg settings), the results leave A LOT to wish.
Available "features" cover - at most - usage of G711 codec (some users cracked the GSM one as well, with mixed results). No voicemail. No conference call. No call forwarding. No STUN (!!! - and I thought Symbian S60 was behind WM6). Not even a user-friendly interface to configure a SIP-provider (a user-unfriendly interface does not exist either, to be precise). Only one provider can be configured. Documentation incomplete and inaccurate if any (MSDN contains some - buggy like hell). Right, no debugging anyway. No logging. Have I missed something? Oh yes, without a headset the sound is wonderfully coming out of the external speaker. Power saving mode cutting the talks due to power outage at the WiFi. So much for integration.
If anyone disagrees just please take a look at SJPhone. Just ONE single look. Honestly, if it was possible to put SJPhone in the Today list (maybe it is but I have not figured it out yet how) I would NEVER bother with the "marvels" of integrated voip.
For me personally, the subject of the "integrated", MS-made VoIP is burried - requiescat in pace. At least until a more reasonable version (at least beta-grade) is available.
Regards
wiktro
Yes I do agree that more can be done to it but at the moment, I am pretty happy with what is available.
Sure the call quality can be much improved with the addition of several codecs but at the moment, it is something that is not bothering me and the call quality, while not great, is something usable.
I am currently using VoIP with an Eten Glofiish X500 which allows me to make calls as a normal phone, thanks to a switch. The audio comes out of the ear piece instead of the loudspeaker. I am using VoipStunt as my service provider and the quality is not too bad. Sure it is not as good as the desktop but then again, a Pocket PC does not have the crunching power of a desktop.
Am I saying that it is sufficient? For my own needs, yes. But I would sure love to see it further improved. I am not saying that just because we have a less powerful device that there is no hope for VoIP because there are even less powerful ones out there that can do an even better job.
Let's just hope Microsoft improves on this. Or that SjLabs can come up with a much needed updated version of their software that integrates with the Today screen.
Related
hi guys, i couldnt help noticing that when i previously used nokia 6600 (symbian s60) they had few 3rd party that is able to make use of their audio mechanism during callls. for example, one software can make selected background noise for opposite callers so they think that u are at a train station for example when infact u r silently at home. another software is an on board answering machine, which after the phone rang for a few times it answer the fonecall with your automated recorded voice and recorded a msg left by the caller on the fone. this is convenient for us so we dont need to call back our voicemail and reduce cost as well as some telco charge to use their voicemail service. im surprised these kind of software have not came out for our windows mobile device when its already available for symbian. im sure it shouldnt be that hard to make it. any coder expert wanna give it a go??
cutefox, what kind of searches have you made for this software on this board? Did you have much luck?
V
i already tried commercial such as handango and pocket gear.. even freeware sites also no luck.. jus dun understand why no 1 made one yet.. shouldnt b too hard to make one.. it will be a big market to sell such a software for our ppc phone device now that more devices is coming out..
Cutefox: have you tried searching this board? Let me save you the effort, but it'll be a good idea next time. It's not generally considered possible, at least on WM2003 devices because of both hardware and software limitations. It's not that no one has thought of it before: someone seems to think of it approximately every two days... but there are many many threads on this issue.
V
Look at what I said here...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=9761
That sums up why we can't do it using the api's available to us now. The funny thing is the way bluetooth sends the audio stream to a headset. Obviously the data is getting there somehow but I suspect it is not (directly) via windows. Dose anyone know if the radio hardware for bluetooth is connected to the radio hardware for the phone? My guess is that if you could write a program that windows "sees" as a headset then you could get the audio that way. But thats a problem in itself.
I would love this kind of program myself. How is it that such usefull devices with so many capeabilities can be kept secret from us. We can't use the camera, we can't get the cell id on towers, we can't programatically controll the partnerships in blutooth, we cant get the audio stream of our own phone, the events on some ppc's that control brightness are secret..... the list goes on. This kind of #@!!$$ is going to hurt the future of these devices which I otherwise love.
OdeeanRDeathshead: I had read your previous posts, and as ever, very interesting and informative reading. I had the same idea regarding a "dummy" bluetooth device a while back, but mamaich put me in my place!
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?p=179839#179839
V
thanks vijay555, thats what I have suspected about the hardware. What I want to do is a bit different. The bluetooth can communicate to many devices at once. If your program could appear to be a headset to the os, then the phone bluetooth hardware could transmit the audio to the headset at the same time your program uses bluetooth to receive it. Kind of like a loop out of the box to bridge the lack of functionality. This shifts the problem to how dose a hardware bluetooth headset communicate. Emulate this and we are on a winner. I don't think I have the willingness to pull my devices appart. I also do not have the money for some of the hardware (eg good digital oscilliscope) that I would need to measure whats going on. I did read that microsoft are about to expose some new api to allow control over the pairing process (but not the audio stream). I hope that we get some soon.
Is there going to be any new (for 2005) free development tools like the evc versions used today?
OdeeanRDeathshead: re eVC, I don't think so. The "express editions" are free, but they specifically omit the functionality to develop "mobile solutions".
Re the loop back. That's a good idea. I think mamaich is our best bet on schematics, I think that would be very helpful. As you "rave", it's mindboggling that Microsoft still haven't revealed or implemented a way to interact with the audio channels. It must have been one of the first things one could imagine doing once you develop a PDA with a phone stuck on the back of it.
Any idea if the bluetooth stacks could support transmitting and receiving simultaneously in this manner? I know some of the boys are working on alternative bluetooth support for the stereo headset profiles, so they might be able to shed some light on the issues involved. I guess the processor overhead could be hefty, but for the benefit it would be beneficial.
V
Does anyone knows if there is a tool to deform e.g. morph your voice in real time for ppc?
Thanx in advance
I dont know about any, but I used one on Symbian OS, but it was really long ago, so I dont remember name. Try look here.
Suppose this all comes down to the old chestnut of whether the phoneline stream is accessible programatically. I have asked about this before and the general consensus seems to be no access because of a hardware limitation imposed by MS.
I'm not convinced by this response. How do bluetooth headsets operate if this is the case?
I've got nowhere near enough c++ expertise to work it out, but surely someone on here must? This could lead to all kinds of useful and fun apps. Anyone fancy a challenge??!
First post lurking for a bit here now.
This app sounds like a blast. Please repost if you find it!
fugi
Maybe it's Surprise! Sounder. But doesn't run in real time. It applies effects to recorded voices.
Searching in the past for a Voice Recorder ( very basic feature I would say :-( ) I understood that there is no way to process the voice stream in real time due to h/w limitations.
does anyone who worked on the widcomm bt stack know how the audio stream gets passed to a bluetooth headset? can it be intercepted? i'm prepared to investigate this further but don't know where to start
On my A1200 I could record calls with no problems. I understand that its Linux, but I think the hardware in this phone is more impressive than that one... what I'm trying to say, is I doubt it is a hardware limitation.
T-Pain auto tone voice changer app on Iphone could be better on Winmo!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDGJY2LgwWI
Maybe hardware solution.
http://www.spyville.com/cell-phone-voice-changer.html
Spoof app and Winmo get marrief
http://m.facebook.com/spoofapp?w2m
Hi,
I am currently looking for a piece of software that will do a specific job, or possibly a better solution to what I am trying to do. Let me give you a little bit of background...
I have got an O2 XDA Mini S, and a Parrot hands-free kit that does not support the A2DP bluetooth profile (only the handsfree profile). I am currently using TomTom 6 on my XDA with a bluetooth GPS unit. Everything works really nicely together, except I cannot get instructions from TomTom through my parrot (which is ultimately my goal).
The only way I can see of getting the TT instructions through my Parrot is to make use of the programs floating about that allow you to turn on and off redirection of sound through bluetooth. The idea I had was that if there was a program about (or maybe even write something myself) that would be able to signal when the sound coming out of the XDA exceeded and then dropped back below a threshold level, and then somehow link that into the bluetooth redirection programs, I could basically have any sound that is produced go through the Parrot only when they occur (including obviously the TT instructions).
Does anybody have any ideas on this? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
Point UI, a UI wrapper, has a feature similar to what you're describing. It's used just to save battery power by turning on BT only when an incoming call is detected, and then killing BT after the call is ended. I don't know if it's open source, but you might want to head over to their forums and see if you can find out how they did it.
You probably also want to haunt any TomTom forum sites (if any even exist).
As a final option, look into Mortscripts. People have done amazing tricks with Mortscripts, and this might be just the ticket. Mort haunts these boards, and may pipe in with an "I can (or cannot) do that with Mortscript" too...
I have a question, though. What's wrong with using the Wizard's built-in speakers for getting directions?
Myrddin Wyllt said:
I have a question, though. What's wrong with using the Wizard's built-in speakers for getting directions?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To be honest, it's not too bad through the speakers although if I have my radio on which I usually do, sometimes it can be a little bit hard to hear, and it would be nice to just have the radio mute while it gives me the directions.
It's more of a "want" than a "need" really.
Thanks very much for the info
Myrddin Wyllt said:
Point UI, a UI wrapper, has a feature similar to what you're describing. It's used just to save battery power by turning on BT only when an incoming call is detected, and then killing BT after the call is ended. I don't know if it's open source, but you might want to head over to their forums and see if you can find out how they did it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is quite easy for programs to detect when you're in a call - MortScript, I presume, probably can detect that quite easily as it's an overall Windows feature and will probably have a readily available part in the API.
The problem is not with turning the bluetooth on and off, it's actually detecting when TomTom is giving an instruction. To be honest I think I'll look into MortScript and if that can't do it then I'll probably just give up.
Detecting phone calls isn't that easy, and it's especially not easy to make a check in a simple procedural script language like MortScript (up to WM5, there's no way to check whether a call is active, you have to monitor all the time if a call is accepted or hung up).
Detecting sound output of another application is entirely impossible - at least for most applications. If the app opens the output channel only during output (which most don't because it takes valuable time and causes ugly "click" noises on some devices), one could maybe query the number of free output channels - but that would need a CPU hog monitoring all the time, or half of the message would be over until it's detected.
And even if that would work, there's simply no way to redirect output to a BT headset (except with A2DP). At least on most devices. Once there was a simple way to do that (you just had to open a virtual port, and as long as it's open, everything was redirected similar to the A2DP way nowadays), but most manufacturers didn't implement it, and nowadays it seems like no modern device supports it anymore. (Had it for test purposes in a MortPlayer beta, no user reported it works...)
So, to put it short: Currently it's impossble. Maybe WM8 might change that... (Few hope for WM7, it's proposed to have the same kernel as WM5 and WM6.x)
Hi all.
I am new to this forum and have spent a few hours looking at some of the the threads here and reading about kitchens and baking, flashing ROMs, etc, and have become a bit scared to venture in.
All I am after is a SIP VoIP client to install on my HTC Touch Cruise (running WM6).
Can anybody help point me in the right direction and what cab file/s I need to install.
I want to steer clear of flashing ROMs.
Thanks.
Check this thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=299950&highlight=voip
Not free, but way better than the MS implementation: How about giving our AGEphone Mobile a try?
Falk said:
Not free, but way better than the MS implementation: How about giving our AGEphone Mobile a try?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hum, just a question: does you software provide voip audio from the right ear front speaker? If so you've found a new customer!
I (and probably everyone else making VoIP apps) wish it did - That would sure be a killer feature! We made the earphone speaker run on a few Sharp WM devices in Japan in the past because Sharp let us know the "DeviceIOControl" address of those devices. HTC on the other hand is as silent as can be and doesn't even react to our inquiries. But even if we knew the address it would result in a different version for each device as the address is very likely always a different one. So unless the phone supports switching in hardware (like a very few do) to begin with there is nothing that we (or anybody else) can do about the situation. We are working on proper bluetooth support though and hope that this can at least remedy the situation a little.
Falk said:
I (and probably everyone else making VoIP apps) wish it did - That would sure be a killer feature! We made the earphone speaker run on a few Sharp WM devices in Japan in the past because Sharp let us know the "DeviceIOControl" address of those devices. HTC on the other hand is as silent as can be and doesn't even react to our inquiries. But even if we knew the address it would result in a different version for each device as the address is very likely always a different one. So unless the phone supports switching in hardware (like a very few do) to begin with there is nothing that we (or anybody else) can do about the situation. We are working on proper bluetooth support though and hope that this can at least remedy the situation a little.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your first sentence was very odd. Maybe it's an XDA joke, but I'm sorry, I didn't get it.
One thing from your website about the software, does it support G729 codec?
No joke intended.. blame my non native English for any oddities ;-) As for G.729 - yes, it can be integrated into the softphone and no, you can't use it without license rights and fees as the consortium holding the codec rights is not a merciful one.
Can anyone tell me if any of the available VoIP solutions available for WM6 will allow me to make and receive calls using my existing cell number? I know TMobile has this ability on a few of there phones.
Thanks,
mr.ellsworth
No solution to the last problem, but going back to the initial question: We have just released AGEphone Mobile 2.5 Speakerphone Edition which supports the internal speaker on some select models (more to follow!).
Hi!
I got a T-Mobile Ameo (x7500) and upgraded it to Win Mobile 6 with success.
I am having trouble with call recording when not being in speakerphone mode. I studied the postings about this topic, but actually it said "Athena can do this without modification".
I used Resco Audio Recorder and Vito Technology's Audio Notes and some other tools. These two programs, well were able to record but the other side was much too silent to comprehend.
I tried it with my Jabra Bluetooth headset and my HTC cable headset. There seems to be no difference to me.
Has any of you guys'n'girls the ICR on his phone, with better experience? Please tell me ;-)
CU, forcemaker
Really nobody of Athena/Advantage/Ameo folks using in call recording?
Hi there,
is eally nobody of Athena/Advantage/Ameo folks using in call recording?
Are there no success or even failure reports that you want to share?
Greetings from forcemaker
All these years have passed ... ;-) ... and no solution is found yet?
The user Menneisyys explains here (and linked pages) that the Athena was the only phone of its "generation" being able to do 2-way-call-recording (or ICR=In-call-recording). Then many phones were enabled with this feature by applying a simple registry hack.
But my Ameo (X7500, upgraded from Stock Wm5 to Stock WM6 ROM, german, by T-Mobile) was never able to do so. Today, for the first time, I chose to install other ROMs (Advantage_HTC_GER_2.21.407.1_1.50.00.00_Ship.exe, Advantage_HTC_WWE_2.21.405.2_1.50.00.00_Ship.exe) and different radio versions (1.5..... and 1.58....) without any change in the behaviour.
So, do you Athena owners have experience with 2-sided/way-call-recording?
Please share with me and us, as I am fed up with HTC devices "blocking" this function ... e.g. with my somewhat beloved HTC Desire (A8181, "Bravo"), where this story repeats itself.
Which ROM versions are you using, if ICR works for you?
edit 1: Oh, I forgot: I tried Resco Audio Recorder and also the solution from VITO and many others.
I am sorry for bothering you, but at this moment there are "1,082" views of this thread (some likely to be from me) ... but I cannot imagine that nobody is using any call recording function on his/her Ameo/Advantage/Athena of which you could give us (or me) a small report (Works/Doesn't work on ROM version XYZ with Recording software ABC) ?
Again sorry for bothering :-(
I think the activity has died down on this device, especially with the hacking community (which this site is mainly about) anyway.
I don't even know that this feature exists until I read this thread now. I have never used it much as a phone (battery life too short) myself, and probably most people use it as a data device mostly and thus the feature is largely missed by many.
I will check out your link to see what the deal is about in call recording as many phones won't do it, but a few will (not just smartphones), I think it has to do with legal ramification similar to there is no reason to block turning off the shutter sound on a phone camera, but they do it to discourage the perverts.