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Hi everyone,
I received my new XDA Exec last Friday and today (Tuesday) I just returned it!
I'm not here to try to influence anybody, but if you haven't bought one yet, you might find this useful.
Then it's up to you.....
I owned 6 PDAs until now, from an old IPAQ with B&W screen to this great XDA Exec piece of kit.
This to me is simply a fantastic piece of hardware, but unfortunately it is severely let down by the software running on it and comiing with it.
Here is what I found in the last 4 days before I lost my patience:
PROS:
1) FAntastic screen, great resolution, brightness and clarity
2) Very good keyboard. It might be too small for touch-typing, but it's great if you don't have to write a book with your Exec. Most of the functions on the screen are replicated on buttons on the keyboard, so you can use the Exec without a stylo pretty easily.
3) USB charging. Nice after the previous XDAs to have one with a "normal" adaptor.
4) Nice new processor. I know many people on this forum had problem with the speed of their JasJar, but I found my Exec very speedy. I personally noticed an improvement from my XDA II.
I'm sure I could have other nice things to say about it, but here are the CONS:
1) It says everywhere about its 285gr weight, but I don't know if you really realize what you're getting yourself into. If you're used to bring your XDA into your bag or your backpack, then no problems. If you always found a place in your pocket for your XDA, then you better tighten your belt because this baby is a real brick!
2) The hardware is probably the best piece of kit I came across, but the software is the worst ensemble of problems I've ever dealt with.
Activesync 4.0 is a bag of .... Both my tomtom 5 software and a flight planning navigation softare that were working to perfection on my XDA II, are not working on the new EXEC.
I know somebody has been able to install the tomtom by transfering the .CAB files directly to the Exec, but I'm one of those "unlucky" (or too stupid) ones that couldn't install one of the 4 .CAB files and therefore....no tomtom 5 for me anymore.
The other piece of software is a VB written software, I installed the VBruntime and I was able to transfer the .CAB files individually. I managed to install the software, but it then started to play havoc with the Exec (the keyboard light would not come on anymore and even after few soft-reset and unistalling the application, I could only bring the system back to normal throught a hard-reset).
3) I also had the soft buttons disappear on me, and had to reset the machine before they reappeared. By the way, please note that the soft reset on my XDA Exec, takes approx 1 min to take place and restart the system. It's a lot longer than on my XDA II and if you think of how many times you'll need to restart it in its life (thanks Microsoft for its well known stabiltiy).
4) WM Player has problem with its full screen funcition. Even if you select the box, it won't play in full screen. If you like me, have plenty of movies converted in a 320x240 format and you'd like to use them in the new Exec, then forget the WMP because they'll only play in 320x240. WMP will not "stretch" them and they'll only look as big as a stamp.
You can easily download a free software (Core Pocket Media Player) which is a great piece of kit, but this brings me to my next point,
5) Storage memory in the new Exec is not "plentyful". The system should come with 128Mb, but around 80Mb are already taken by the pre-installed software. When you first start the machine, if you look and the memory settings, you'll only have around 40Mb available, 20 for Storage and 20 for programs.....and you cannot bias the size from one side to the other. In this new software, it's done automatically.
You can probably download software to correct or improve the one that the system is shipped with, but you'll soon find out that you'll run out of memory.
I installed on my new XDA:
The PDF viewer,
The VBruntime,
Microsoft Autoroute,
Core Pocket Media player,
and all I was left were 6 miserable Mb to play with.
I know somebody said that the system is designed for you to install the programs on SD cards, but I found this whole thing a bit ridicolous.
BTW, Microsoft Reader is NOT included in the system, so if you, like me, like to read books on the go, you'll have to download it separately and utilize even more memory
I'm sure I could go on for another few pages but I'll better stop.
I'm not trying to change anybody's mind, but I'm trying to make a simple point.
If you're an expert in PC and PDAs and if you're ready to "play" with your exec for hours on end to reach a "usable" machine, then enjoy it. It's really a great piece of hardware, with almost endless potential.
If you are an XDA (or probably any other PDA) user and you think that you can get the new Exec and transfer all of your programs on it and have it working in a heartbeat......think again.
I'm no pro, but I'm not a complete rockie.
I don't want to spend my next 3 months downloading ROM upgrades and hard-resetting this beast, just to get out of it what I already get out of my old XDA II.
My final thought is that if you haven't bought one yet, you might want to wait a litte bit more, until microsoft or somebody else, sorts out some of these problems.
I Hope somebody might find this useful.
ps My apologies for the grammar.....
Wow...
I am really confused on what to do...
I'm just confused!
trendystyle, don't you already have a JasJar!?
And mig31, returning "a fantastic piece of hardware" because it's not running some old (and therefore not fully compatible) software properly seems a bit hasty, doesn't it?
I love my Exec. I have no issues with memory, except it is misleading how they publish.
And software does need to be updated to WM5, so patience. The rom works well.
Its a PDA with a phone and thats the best way to look at it.
Well i recieved my exec this morning. First impressions are that its not that big. If your used to and xda then there isnt a great deal of difference. Its quite heavy but not massivly so.
The screen is fantastic, as is the keyboard. So far i am loving it!
The box that it comes in is wroth the money alone!
I'm returning mine too.
This was my first PPC after years with Palm and the Pam interface just seems to come across as cleaner and friendlier.
I've had AS 4.0 hose the wireless connection on my laptop and no one seems to be able to help.
Another thing that bothers me is the need to pay for 3rd party programs to do just about anything to make it more usable.
Even something as simple viewing the list of programs as a list instead of as large icons need a 3rd party program.
Want to close a program instead of just puting it in the background, get a 3rd party program to make the close button work like a close button.
Don't even get me started about Pocket IE.
I've had to hard reset it once and soft reset the device 4 times in 2 days, this was before loading anything new on it. Just while using it as normal right out of the box.
Finally, it's really slow.
I did not mind the size as I knew what I was getting into. I wanted the larger screen and keyboard. It actually felt just fine as a phone in my hand.
The phone seems to be designed with PPC afficionados in mind. For a regular user who does not have the time or inclination to play around with ROM upgrades, tweaks, 3rd party programs, etc. this doesn't seem to work. If you want to spend hours playing with it, this just might be for you.
I'm going back to my Treo 650 for now.
Hi,
i can´t really understand some of your cons.
> 2) The hardware is probably the best piece of kit I came across, but the
> software is the worst ensemble of problems I've ever dealt with.
> ActiveSync 4.0 is a bag of ....
Active Sync works perfectly for me, no problems at all.
> Both my tomtom 5 software and a flight planning navigation softare that
> were working to perfection on my XDA II, are not working on the new
> EXEC.
Both programs aren´t designed for use use with WM2k5, so what do you expect ? Instead of blaming the device, go and ask tomtom for an update.
> 3) [...] By the way, please note that the soft reset on my XDA Exec,
> takes approx 1 min to take place and restart the system.
Ok, it´s 35 seconds for me, sure, that´s not really fast, but i needed exactly one softreset in the last two weeks .. so i can live with that.
(i don´t count resets after installing ne software)
> 4) WM Player has problem with its full screen funcition. Even if you
> select the box, it won't play in full screen.
Yes, you are right ... the WM-Player is really bad, but just download the free betaplayer .. works very fine and this problem is solved - 2 minutes of work.
> 5) Storage memory in the new Exec is not "plentyful". [...]
> I installed on my new XDA:
> The PDF viewer, The VBruntime, Microsoft Autoroute, Core Pocket
> Media player, and all I was left were 6 miserable Mb to play with.
First of all, the pdf viewer is already installed in WM2k5, so no need to reinstall it (at least it was on my machine).
I have the following programs installed on my mda pro:
- Total Commander
- Chess
- Betaplayer
- Registry Editor
- i-Mate backgammon
- weather plugin
- grps monitor (from the t-mobile cd)
and i have 32 Megs storage mem free and 29 megs program mem free.
But .. hey, if you install a routing software like autoroute and don´t install it on the sd card .. your fault.
Sure, your conclusion is not so bad .. the mda pro is no device for bloody novices, but .. a minumum of knowledge and understanding is enough to use and configure it.
- Superbowl
Read your comments, its a shame.
I am a power user, and I have used the Treo. The only advantage the Treo has is its simplicity and size.
WM5 and the Exec are a complex beast. It can perform loads of tasks. There is no need to always close apps. I dont use any task manager as I do not see the need.
Standard MS apps can be closed with ctrl q on the SIP keyboard.
The device is new. You havent given it anytime to really understand it. It takes at least a week - a month to learn about it.
All of these 'issues' could have been identified before purchasing the Universal with just a tiny bit of research!
Again, it sounds like people are rushing out to spend their money on the latest greates device without the slightest idea of what they're getting themselves into. (I got a proper mauling for suggesting this a week or so ago in another thread, but I still firmly believe this to be the case)
I'd suggest a lot of people around here would be more comfortable with the far less threatening new P990. Looks like a decent 3G smartphone, and would be easier for a newbie. Perhaps get to grips with something like that before moving on to an XDA device when you've outgrown Symbian? (That route worked for me, anyway!)
If only I'm staying in UK.I don't mind buying a set from u guys . :wink:
Many thanks to mig31 for a useful guide to others thinking of buying this device. I do think though that as most of the Cons highlighted have been discussed at length in previous threads, maybe you should have held off a little longer before buying one.
As a first time poster, mig31 may have an excuse as indeed would any unfortunates who have walked into their local 02 shop and bought one on the recommendations of the sales teams. But surely, all regular readers of xda-developers forum should be well aware of the pros and cons of the device. I am also fairly sure that like me, most will be subscribed to many other sites as well.
I would therefore have to agree with sub69, (incidentally, I also agreed with your comments on the earlier thread but refrained from joining for fear of receiving similar irrational abuse). :roll:
Thinking of getting an Exec...
Greetings to all!
I'm new here, just recently registered. I've been doing some background research on the Exec and it seems reasonable. However, I am finding more mixed reviews about it.
I'm currently on the II and I am thoroughly enjoying it! Prior to switching to the II, I entrusted my mobile needs to my good 'ol 6210 and Vx which I do not miss at the very least. Those two served me well.
I am thinking of getting an Exec, do you guys/ gals think it would be a worthwhile investment? I use my II almost exclusively for work and I plan to do the same with the Exec if ever. I hardly get to use the camera and MP3 on my II, but I adore it for having access Word and Excel. The Exec currently isn't available in Manila, hence my search outside. Being behind the curve (in Manila) would guys/ gals know of any hitches that I might encounter by trying to operate my unit here in Manila (phone function)? Are there language settings to choose from on the Exec?
Lastly, by any of you might know of a user/reseller planning to dispose of their Execs?
Cheers!
gavinfabl said:
WM5 and the Exec are a complex beast. It can perform loads of tasks.
...
The device is new. You havent given it anytime to really understand it. It takes at least a week - a month to learn about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you. That's why I'm going to try it out for close to the full 14 day trial period. Then, if it's still not for me, it goes back.
sub69 said:
I'm just confused!
trendystyle, don't you already have a JasJar!?
And mig31, returning "a fantastic piece of hardware" because it's not running some old (and therefore not fully compatible) software properly seems a bit hasty, doesn't it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Obviuosly I have it!
I am confused, cause I don't know what to do, and time is running out(1 month for refund...), should i keep it, hoping for a new update, or sending it back, and waiting for real and mature super device?^??
I've had AS 4.0 hose the wireless connection on my laptop and no one seems to be able to help.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm while you don't specifically state the problem here I think I may have one possible solution...if my hunch is correct.
When you connect a WM5.0 device using ActiveSync 4 Windows creates a Network Port for it.
Now Windows uses a series of Metrics for all networked devices, whichever device has the lowest metric becomes the default. It is possible that Windows is assigning a lower metric to your XDA's network device then your Wireless network, hence it picks that as your default device screwing up your wireless connection.
For more detailed information on metrics see this article
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/community/columns/cableguy/cg0405.mspx
You can however over-ride the default behavior.
Go to Start>Control Panel>Network Connections
Right click your wireless network connection and choose properties. Select Internet Protocol (TCP/IP) from the list and then click the Properties button
From the properties window click the Advanced button
In the advanced settings window at the bottom there is a tickbox which says Automatic Metric. Untick this and assign it a number, say 20
Click ok and close all the windows till you get back to the Network Connections Window. Do the same for the network connection assigned to your XDA but assign it a HIGHER number then you did for the wireless connection.
Your wireless connection should now be the default!
If it doesn't work then you can just simply put things back as they were and everything will be ok
trendystyle said:
Obviuosly I have it!
I am confused, cause I don't know what to do, and time is running out(1 month for refund...), should i keep it, hoping for a new update, or sending it back, and waiting for real and mature super device?^??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ohhhhhhhh, I see!
Well, if you return it for a refund you can always pick up a subsidised Exec or Pro later on for much less money, or you could stick with the JasJar and update as you go along.
Either way, you'll be waiting for a more mature device, just a matter of whether you want a less mature device while you wait, or no device at all?
mjames_84 said:
I've had AS 4.0 hose the wireless connection on my laptop and no one seems to be able to help.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm while you don't specifically state the problem here I think I may have one possible solution...if my hunch is correct.
......
If it doesn't work then you can just simply put things back as they were and everything will be ok
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the input.
Here's a more detailed description of the problem:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?p=168289#168289
See my followup post in that thread for more info as well.
sub69 said:
trendystyle said:
Obviuosly I have it!
I am confused, cause I don't know what to do, and time is running out(1 month for refund...), should i keep it, hoping for a new update, or sending it back, and waiting for real and mature super device?^??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ohhhhhhhh, I see!
Well, if you return it for a refund you can always pick up a subsidised Exec or Pro later on for much less money, or you could stick with the JasJar and update as you go along.
Either way, you'll be waiting for a more mature device, just a matter of whether you want a less mature device while you wait, or no device at all?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, as you might know, as you purchase a new device, there are always bacos, problem, or maybe bad firmware:
I prefer maybe to see, if in the next 4/6 month they will come out, with an improved Jasjar(at SW or HW level), maybe at a fair price, not at thieves price, that will allow me to do all the things I was doing normally with much cheaper and obsolete devices (like installing 3rd party applications, games, etc.), without rebooting every 20 minutes
I understand the post on the Treo 650, is by far much better delivering its mission, it goes smooth, never reboot, and cost the half!
trendystyle said:
Well, as you might know, as you purchase a new device, there are always bacos, problem, or maybe bad firmware:
I prefer maybe to see, if in the next 4/6 month they will come out, with an improved Jasjar(at SW or HW level), maybe at a fair price, not at thieves price, that will allow me to do all the things I was doing normally with much cheaper and obsolete devices (like installing 3rd party applications, games, etc.), without rebooting every 20 minutes
I understand the post on the Treo 650, is by far much better delivering its mission, it goes smooth, never reboot, and cost the half!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can see where this is going, so lets just agree to disagree now, shall we? :wink:
sub69 said:
trendystyle said:
Well, as you might know, as you purchase a new device, there are always bacos, problem, or maybe bad firmware:
I prefer maybe to see, if in the next 4/6 month they will come out, with an improved Jasjar(at SW or HW level), maybe at a fair price, not at thieves price, that will allow me to do all the things I was doing normally with much cheaper and obsolete devices (like installing 3rd party applications, games, etc.), without rebooting every 20 minutes
I understand the post on the Treo 650, is by far much better delivering its mission, it goes smooth, never reboot, and cost the half!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can see where this is going, so lets just agree to disagree now, shall we? :wink:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right!
It's a way of fact: TREO 650, at the moment works much better than the Jasjar: let's hope for the future!
1) Or I-mate solve a lot of problem
2) I will buy the new Treo 700, on Windows mobile 5.0
Hi all
I am new to this board and new to the xda,, I have just bought a XDA Exec (guess i am in the right place, this is the same as the "universal"?)
GOt it from ebay, boxed as new for £265 which i did not think was a bad price.
I mainly wanted it as I want to be able to use msn messager on the go, plus email and intranet access via work, plus I like the idea of putting my music on to it aswell..
As I am new to this I would appicate all the help you guys can give me.
A,,, Which ROM is the best to use (where can i download, how do i update)
B,,, What software is recommended for use
C,,, I am going to be using it as a mobile phone as well, can you use it like a normal one (IE hold to side of your head while shut and speak like you would on a normal phone)
D,,, ANy Hints tips or tricks would be greatfully received,
Thanks very much in advance.
Paul
firewire1200 said:
A,,, Which ROM is the best to use (where can i download, how do i update)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you have a problem with the O2 ROM that it (presumably) already has? The O2 ROM seems to be pretty stable and reliable. Certainly works for me. If it ain't broke....
firewire1200 said:
C,,, I am going to be using it as a mobile phone as well, can you use it like a normal one (IE hold to side of your head while shut and speak like you would on a normal phone)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Absolutely. You can have the screen facing out or in: the Exec has two different speakers in the screen shell for this reason. You have another two in the base for the speakerphone. The microphone is near the power button. One tip: Don't flip the screen from landscape to portrait (or vice-versa) when the phone rings. Leave it in its current orientation and answer it. If it's closed in clamshell mode and the phone rings, open the screen to see who's calling, but close it again to answer. Don't flip to portrait mode just to answer it cos you'll probably lose the call as the OS takes a second or two to flip the screen orientation. :roll:
Browse this forum for a while. You'll find lots of tips and tricks to improve your experience with your Exec. Disabling the O2 Active interface, turning off Error Reporting, and Incoming Beams are the first, most basic things you can do to improve things for yourself.
Ive had my 8525 for almost 2 weeks. The jury is still out on it for me. As an overall package its cool. Im having trouble getting it to sync to my work computer but thats because I work for a DoD contractor and I need an IT guy to come set it up for me. Everything else seems to work nice. Everyonce and a while it wont display a internet page right or when I close it it takes a few secs to reorient the screen. All stuff that I can deal with.
BUT
As a Phone it sucks. Its not intuitive. Like when I end a call I would like to push the call button and go back to my previous calls like every other phone in the world. but no, its push end then push key pad button then scroll the scroll wheel up. Is there another phone program or something that makes it function more like an everyday cellphone?
Upgrade to one of the WM6 ROMs, the phone interface is MUCH better. Not perfect, but MUCH better.
which one do you run?
I've bounced around, I like Black and Custel, though don't care for Custel's current CommManager.
A lot of it is totally device specific, not model, but YOUR handset and the apps you run. Some trial and error is involved...
Peter
it cost me €650
its buggy, hangs sometimes, I keep having to reset
keyboards sometimes dont popup
wifi is very weak (they used a cheap Texas Instrument chip for wifi that under lab tests runs at about 2/3 the performance of the Marvel chip in the iPhone). Again I remind you that I paid €650 for this thing.
ive owned the phone 6 days and already had to do 4 hard resets
cheap crappy speaker
camera lag 3 seconds to take photo
have to use virtal button to take photo
gps lags
cant assign / customise soft buttons (without installing third party cabs)
to do any customization on the dam thing, you have to install 3rd party cabs, ends up with a phone cluttered with all sorts of stuff most of which was not originally written for the HD. Phone gets unstable and starts hanging even more than usual.
touch screen is often unresponsive, the majority of dialogs put the ok button in the top right hand corner where it is least responsive. I often have to tap the buton 5-6 times to get it to respond
have to install everything on storage card as there is very limited storage built in
TouchFlo 3d has lots of bugs (have a read of the forum)
have to use headphones to get radio to work (be nice not to have to, id like to be able to demo the radio and use it in high strength signal areas w/o having to carry headphones around).
radio is noisy with poor reception
cant record radio
browser stops working at the drop of a hat. i.e. you manage to get a wifi connection, you use the web, leave phone for a minute, come back, hit power button, wifi wakes up, browser more often then not will no longer work (cannot find proxy server, no network, dns not available). I have to resolve with another soft reset
browser is a pain to use, it does not zoom intelligently, the amount of time I spend trying to line up after a zoom, then hitting links by mistake or trying to hit links and wondering wtf they do nothing.
the wifi on my unit is poor. i have written to htc and expansys and as of yet (a day and a half later) i have had no reply from either. sickening and worrying!
im in the middle of another hard reset right now after the phone screwed up yet again
doesnt lock properly (when a call comes in)
you have to install .Net 3.5. For god sakes its late 2008, could they not have shipped the rom with it already on there. not only that but you really need to install it onto device storage rather than card storage for performance so it takes up valuable space (of which there is not much to begin with)
battery lasts a day at best with light use. if you use wifi and browse for an hour on the train you can reduce that to 3 or 4 hours. pretty lousy
lousy (and I mean LOUSY) video playback. You need a degree in computing to go and encode videos in specific ways to get them to play reasonably. Even the demo video that comes with the phone plays poorly.
hard to scroll through lists on screen without invoking the items on the list. i.e. scrolling the programs list I always end up running unwanted programs
when you send a text message, the phone does nothing, no "sending message" status, no confirmation that message sent. You have to fix with a tweak. again to fix, you have to install schaps config tool that clearly is not written for the HD. Its brilliant and I am not having a go at all but its anothe rlarge cab u have to install just to do the most basic things. jesus a "sending text" status is the most basic requiremt surely to god!!!
very hard to figure out how to disable 3g (cud be real expensive unless u have ur wits about u)
gps is very slow initially and weaker than on normal gps devices. I have had it unable to detect gps signals when my mate beside was using another device and getting signal - just like the wifi.
not possible to edit/customize TouchFlo 3D. You can't put an shortcut to a program on its home page for eg. You have to scroll along the awkward scroll bar to get to programs.
TF3D completely takes over the Today screen so customizing the Today screen is absolutely pointless unless you remove TF3D from it.
screen protector is crap and difficult to install.
finally for now . . .
it cost me €650
I know a lot of you are gonna hate me after this post. I dont blame you. I am dissing your beloved new toy, the toy that you paid as much as I did for, the toy that you dearly wanna love cos it cost so much. the toy that you dont wanna hear a bad word said about cos it cost so much.
I'm starting to hate this dam thing.
think you have a defective HD
gt112 said:
it cost me €650
its buggy, hangs sometimes, I keep having to reset
keyboards sometimes dont popup
wifi is very weak (they used a cheap Texas Instrument chip for wifi that under lab tests runs at about 2/3 the performance of the Marvel chip in the iPhone). Again I remind you that I paid €650 for this thing.
ive owned the phone 6 days and already had to do 4 hard resets
cheap crappy speaker
camera lag 3 seconds to take photo
have to use virtal button to take photo
gps lags
cant assign / customise soft buttons (without installing third party cabs)
to do any customization on the dam thing, you have to install 3rd party cabs, ends up with a phone cluttered with all sorts of stuff most of which was not originally written for the HD. Phone gets unstable and starts hanging even more than usual.
touch screen is often unresponsive, the majority of dialogs put the ok button in the top right hand corner where it is least responsive. I often have to tap the buton 5-6 times to get it to respond
have to install everything on storage card as there is very limited storage built in
TouchFlo 3d has lots of bugs (have a read of the forum)
have to use headphones to get radio to work (be nice not to have to, id like to be able to demo the radio and use it in high strength signal areas w/o having to carry headphones around).
radio is noisy with poor reception
cant record radio
browser stops working at the drop of a hat. i.e. you manage to get a wifi connection, you use the web, leave phone for a minute, come back, hit power button, wifi wakes up, browser more often then not will no longer work (cannot find proxy server, no network, dns not available). I have to resolve with another soft reset
browser is a pain to use, it does not zoom intelligently, the amount of time I spend trying to line up after a zoom, then hittig links by mistake or trying to hit links and wondering wtf they do nothing.
the wifi on my unit is poor. i have written to htc and expansys and as of yet (a day and a half later) i have had no reply from either. sickening and worrying!
im in the middle of another hard reset right now after the phone screwed up yet again
doesnt lock properly (when a call comes in)
you have to install .Net 3.5. For god sakes its late 2008, could they not have shipped the rom with it already on there. not only that but you really need to install it onto the device for performance so it takes up valuable space (of which there is not much to begin with)
battery lasts a day at best with light use. if you use wifi and browse for an hour on the train you can reduce that to 3 or 4 hours. pretty lousy
lousy (and I mean LOUSY) video playback. You need a degree in computing to go and decode videos in specific ways to get them to play reasonably. Even the demo video that comes with the phone plays poorly.
hard to scroll through lists on screen without invoking the items on the list. i.e. scrolling the programs list I always end up running unwanted programs
when you send a text message, the phone does nothing, no "sending message" status, no confirmation that message sent. You have to fix with a tweak. again to fix, you have to install schaps config tool that clearly is not written for the HD. Its brilliant and I am not having a go at all but its anothe rlarge cab u have to install just to do the most basic things. jesus a "sending text" status is the most basic requiremt surely to god!!!
very hard to figure out how to disable 3g (cud be real expensive unless u have ur wits about u)
gps is very slow initially and weaker than on normal gps devices. I have had it unable to detect gps signals when my mate beside was using another device and getting signal - just like the wifi.
not possible to edit/customize TouchFlo 3D. You cant put an shortcut to a program on its home page for eg. YOu have to scroll along the awkward scroll bar to get to programs.
TF3D it completely take sover the Today screen so customizing the Today screen is absolutely pointlss unless you remove TF3D from it.
screen protector is crap and difficult to install.
finally for now . . .
it cost me €650
I know a lot of you are gonna hate me after this post. I dont blame you. I am dissing your beloved new toy, the toy that you paid as much as I did for, the toy that you dearly wanna love cos it cost so much. the toy that you dont wanna hear a bad word said about cos it cost so much.
I'm starting to hate this dam thing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your HD is defective
wfhowell said:
Your HD is defective
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or perhaps its just not fit for purpose. if it is defective, then wouldn't it be nice of htc or expansys to respond to my email ?
defective
gt112 said:
or perhaps its just not fit for purpose. if it is defective, then wouldn't it be nice of htc or expansys to respond to my email ?
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I wouldnt email. I would call them if its defective...Or talk to the place where you got it for a refund.
I dont think its defective, I think it is a poor product
His soounds about the same as mine. It isn't defective that's just how they are.
Looking at your post history I can only see *****ing and moaning during the past few days.
You are just trolling now.
Is this your first WM device...
I've been using WM pda for 10 years now...the first 2-3 years..some devices are like you describe..but not nowadays..
It's either you have defective unit or you just dont know how to optimize it..
It is not like Iphone that works perfectly out of the box..
I will say no more. However the browsing and freeze ups and difficulties in using it are what I have experienced. So far my wifi works though. Most of the things I was *****ing about is what the OP is talking about so... go figure.
MAK
I'm *****ing and moaning as you put it because I have spent a lot of money on a poor product. Thus this post.
I am sorry if you think it a troll. If people want this thread removed then please feel free.
I thought he was saying I am a troll LOL Gt mine has many of the same problems don't worry about it.
I think there is a bug somewhere which hangs the device frequently. It need to be solved. If you're patient and wait, I'm sure the XDA community, with all the talents around, will solve it one day. Of course, we should also report to HTC (which someone already has, and provided the links here to them) and get a firmware update from them.
Hopefully, you also look at all the good things: your wide choice of GPS software, the fantastic office applications, the wide choice of software keybaord, etc.
If you're new to the Winmo world, I understand it could be difficult in the begining.
In you want to get away from the winmo world, your choice is iPhone, Nokia, Blackberry and the like. You need to know what your requirements are. Do not jump from one imperfect solution to another imperfect solution. Sit back to define your requirement before making your next purchase. Otherwise you will have many many more €650 down the drain.
Do you have an Hd now Steve? Also in another thread I asked if Hd will improve the software, now that it is out only devs here will fix it? That's sort of sad. I don't mean anything against the devs here I am sure you guys do a great job.
thanks to everyone who replied, god I really have started something here havn't I.
I know, be patient, its not all bad, etc etc.
But hey, look at the WiFi issue for example.
This doesn't mean I have a defective phone, It means I have a poor product.
Theres a cheap crappy chip built into the phone. That cannot be fixed with a hack or software update or a replacement
Some of your complaints such as freezing and lagginess I have also experienced. The zoom not centering and links not being clickable are certainly valid concerns. My HD behaves exactly the same. I can understand that maybe you have a bad chip as well. In another thread here some people couldn'y understand how frustrating that can be.
Great Post Eagle
eaglesteve said:
I think there is a bug somewhere which hangs the device frequently. It need to be solved. If you're patient and wait, I'm sure the XDA community, with all the talents around, will solve it one day. Of course, we should also report to HTC (which someone already has, and provided the links here to them) and get a firmware update from them.
Hopefully, you also look at all the good things: your wide choice of GPS software, the fantastic office applications, the wide choice of software keybaord, etc.
If you're new to the Winmo world, I understand it could be difficult in the begining.
In you want to get away from the winmo world, your choice is iPhone, Nokia, Blackberry and the like. You need to know what your requirements are. Do not jump from one imperfect solution to another imperfect solution. Sit back to define your requirement before making your next purchase. Otherwise you will have many many more €650 down the drain.
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Ive had a lot of WM devices too...THis one beats them all. Daughter has iphone. CUte phone, good for talking to others and music. Win Mobile is far from perfect, but its like Eagle says, weigh what you like and dont like, dont shift to another pda without counting the cost and research. Go and research some of the other phones too. Visit the forums, they have their share of problems too. For me the HD doesnt do everything i would like, some i wish improves. But there is no phone that is the perfect phone anywhere. Hope you find what you like. Not easy in the PDA world. Good luck!!
ryaninuk said:
Do you have an Hd now Steve? Also in another thread I asked if Hd will improve the software, now that it is out only devs here will fix it? That's sort of sad. I don't mean anything against the devs here I am sure you guys do a great job.
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My HD has not arrived yet, but I hope it's either today or tomorrow. The ebay seller which claims to be based in Melbourne, is apparently shipping out of Hong Kong.
There is a thread on the device hanging that I'm watching. Hopefullly someone nails the bug. I'm sure there is a bug somewhere.
When I started using my Athena, hanging was a common problem. Now it is gone. Sometimes it is due to defective storage card, sometimes it is wrong formatting parameters being used for the storage card, sometimes it is lack of optimization in the ROM... but eventually it got fixed.
gt112 said:
thanks to everyone who replied, god I really have started something here havn't I.
I know, be patient, its not all bad, etc etc.
But hey, look at the WiFi issue for example.
This doesn't mean I have a defective phone, It means I have a poor product.
Theres a cheap crappy chip built into the phone. That cannot be fixed with a hack or software update or a replacement
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Have you tried changing the setting to have best performance instead of battery life? It might just help to keep the WIFI signal a little more stable.
gt112 said:
it cost me €650
its buggy, hangs sometimes, I keep having to reset
keyboards sometimes dont popup
wifi is very weak (they used a cheap Texas Instrument chip for wifi that under lab tests runs at about 2/3 the performance of the Marvel chip in the iPhone). Again I remind you that I paid €650 for this thing.
ive owned the phone 6 days and already had to do 4 hard resets
cheap crappy speaker
camera lag 3 seconds to take photo
have to use virtal button to take photo
gps lags
cant assign / customise soft buttons (without installing third party cabs)
to do any customization on the dam thing, you have to install 3rd party cabs, ends up with a phone cluttered with all sorts of stuff most of which was not originally written for the HD. Phone gets unstable and starts hanging even more than usual.
touch screen is often unresponsive, the majority of dialogs put the ok button in the top right hand corner where it is least responsive. I often have to tap the buton 5-6 times to get it to respond
have to install everything on storage card as there is very limited storage built in
TouchFlo 3d has lots of bugs (have a read of the forum)
have to use headphones to get radio to work (be nice not to have to, id like to be able to demo the radio and use it in high strength signal areas w/o having to carry headphones around).
radio is noisy with poor reception
cant record radio
browser stops working at the drop of a hat. i.e. you manage to get a wifi connection, you use the web, leave phone for a minute, come back, hit power button, wifi wakes up, browser more often then not will no longer work (cannot find proxy server, no network, dns not available). I have to resolve with another soft reset
browser is a pain to use, it does not zoom intelligently, the amount of time I spend trying to line up after a zoom, then hitting links by mistake or trying to hit links and wondering wtf they do nothing.
the wifi on my unit is poor. i have written to htc and expansys and as of yet (a day and a half later) i have had no reply from either. sickening and worrying!
im in the middle of another hard reset right now after the phone screwed up yet again
doesnt lock properly (when a call comes in)
you have to install .Net 3.5. For god sakes its late 2008, could they not have shipped the rom with it already on there. not only that but you really need to install it onto device storage rather than card storage for performance so it takes up valuable space (of which there is not much to begin with)
battery lasts a day at best with light use. if you use wifi and browse for an hour on the train you can reduce that to 3 or 4 hours. pretty lousy
lousy (and I mean LOUSY) video playback. You need a degree in computing to go and encode videos in specific ways to get them to play reasonably. Even the demo video that comes with the phone plays poorly.
hard to scroll through lists on screen without invoking the items on the list. i.e. scrolling the programs list I always end up running unwanted programs
when you send a text message, the phone does nothing, no "sending message" status, no confirmation that message sent. You have to fix with a tweak. again to fix, you have to install schaps config tool that clearly is not written for the HD. Its brilliant and I am not having a go at all but its anothe rlarge cab u have to install just to do the most basic things. jesus a "sending text" status is the most basic requiremt surely to god!!!
very hard to figure out how to disable 3g (cud be real expensive unless u have ur wits about u)
gps is very slow initially and weaker than on normal gps devices. I have had it unable to detect gps signals when my mate beside was using another device and getting signal - just like the wifi.
not possible to edit/customize TouchFlo 3D. You can't put an shortcut to a program on its home page for eg. You have to scroll along the awkward scroll bar to get to programs.
TF3D completely takes over the Today screen so customizing the Today screen is absolutely pointless unless you remove TF3D from it.
screen protector is crap and difficult to install.
finally for now . . .
it cost me €650
I know a lot of you are gonna hate me after this post. I dont blame you. I am dissing your beloved new toy, the toy that you paid as much as I did for, the toy that you dearly wanna love cos it cost so much. the toy that you dont wanna hear a bad word said about cos it cost so much.
I'm starting to hate this dam thing.
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grandma?
ops, sorry, you sound just like her...
wfhowell said:
Ive had a lot of WM devices too...THis one beats them all. Daughter has iphone. CUte phone, good for talking to others and music. Win Mobile is far from perfect, but its like Eagle says, weigh what you like and dont like, dont shift to another pda without counting the cost and research. Go and research some of the other phones too. Visit the forums, they have their share of problems too. For me the HD doesnt do everything i would like, some i wish improves. But there is no phone that is the perfect phone anywhere. Hope you find what you like. Not easy in the PDA world. Good luck!!
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I never had any illusion thinking that HD is a perfect device. I already made a lot of noise about the small screen size (I wanted a 4.5 inch), lack of D-pad etc. But hey, we do research first, and go in with our eye open and not have false expectation.l
i tried searching the google for solutions to these, but couldn't seem to find any solutions in the "other" forums that came up in the results. i was hoping someone here might have an answers.
coming from WinMo, the biggest annoyances on the hero for me are:1) when i'm playing music off the phone and i receive any sort of notification, the music pauses for like 2 seconds plays the notification sound pauses then resumes the music instead of the just playing the notification sound over the music the pause happens even if i have the phone set to vibrate mode...just no notification sound..this is extremely annoying. 2) also i noticed the power button and end call button are the same button which is ok, but when i'm leaving voicemails i have a tendancy to just hit hang up when im done however i noticed that if the screen goes off during my call and i press end call it just turns the screen back on instead of ending my call...extremely dangerous when leaving messages..
does anyone have any solutions or workarounds for these?
thanks!
The AOSP 1.6 roms solve the issue with the end button, as it is the ONLY way to hang up a call in vanilla Home Android. Notification w/ Music? Didn't test that yet, but the 1.6 roms are definitely worth a try. I'll get back to you on the music notification thing. Hope this helped.
EDIT: Apparently it solves both issues. Hope I helped you with this. If you like Sense UI, the AOSP roms aren't for you, they do away with Sense.
HeroMeng said:
The AOSP 1.6 roms solve the issue with the end button, as it is the ONLY way to hang up a call in vanilla Home Android.
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Can you clarify this a bit? What do you mean by it is the only way to hang up a call? Are you saying in AOSP the screen just stays on for the entire duration of the call?
if you press the "menu" button after the screen shuts off during a call, it'll turn back on, at which point you can either press the red button, or the "end call" button on the screen.
Or, if you pull the phone away from your ear and see that the screen is off, and want to end the call, hit the red button twice in quick succession, and it'll turn on then hang up within a second or two
The idiot who decided to make the power button and the hang up button one button should be shot, IMHO! Yes there are workarounds and ways to handle it but they require too much thought and it's just way too easy to hang up on somebody.
Also, the interrupt the music (or podcast) to play the alarm is dumb too. Additionally it's not like they pause the music rather the music runs onward and, if you happen to be listening to a podcasts where the words are important you can miss key concepts and have to rewind.
I've flashed the 2.1 ROM with HTC Sense. I would not put it beyond the HTC guys to have messed it up and made it so that the alarm still interrupts the music. The power button thing is definitely not solved in this ROM.
But by far my biggest complaint is improper handling of AVRCP. 2.1 is better but it's still not even good. If I start Google Listen and am listening to a podcast then I can hit pause on my bluetooth headset and it works. If, however, I navigate away from Google Listen then the pause button doesn't work at all. Often it'll start the HTC Music app and then I'll have both the podcast AND music playing. Brilliant!
just a thought but maybe you should have looked into the phone before purchasing. and being rude and saying that the 2.1 isnt any good is really insulting to all the devs that have worked really hard on that rom considering that it was built well before the kernel source came out. and im sorry but if you cant remember to hit menu and then end instead of just end then maybe you should just get a flip phone. as far as the notification over the music goes, gee lets think about this, your listening to music and you get a text hmmmmmmm maybe you want to be NOTIFIED that you got a text.
my advice. Either go back to a winmo phone or get a flip.
i don't think he meant to insult the developers..the hero is definitely a great phone and androids is awesome, but there are bugs and what better way to solve them them to point them out and discuss them.
its not so much that you cant remember to hit end twice or press menu and then hit end, but its the fact that you have to take the extra step. and text messaging thing, yes it lets me know that i have a text, but i would have known that if it played the sound concurrently or if it just flashed the lights, but ok that's not major issue i understand some people like to hear the sound separately. however, if i have the phone on vibrate and am playing music, it still pauses the music when a notification comes even tho it doesn't play the notification sounds..that's just plain ridiculous.
i mean if i'm paying for a high end phone i kind of expect to manufacturer to have done research and testing in UI and human interaction to address these kind of issues.
btw i found this app in market call "proximity sensor" that kind of fixes the end call problem. when you are on a call it uses the light sensor to detect if you have the phone up to your head and it dims the screen and turns it back on when it sees light. the only hickups are if you are in a dark area you have to hit back to get the screen back on as there wont be any light for it detect and also it doesn't turn off the screen just dims it..so might kill your battery a bit quicker, but all in all i tihnk it's pretty nice.
defaria said:
The idiot who decided to make the power button and the hang up button one button should be shot, IMHO! Yes there are workarounds and ways to handle it but they require too much thought and it's just way too easy to hang up on somebody.
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There's a good number of phones like that. Treo 700p, 755p, 800w, Samsung Rant, Sanyo SCP-3100 just to name a few. Actually, the Blackberry that I have for work is the only phone that I have used recently that has a separate power button.
I think I had a Nokia that had a separate power button.
ajaholic said:
i don't think he meant to insult the developers..the hero is definitely a great phone and androids is awesome, but there are bugs and what better way to solve them them to point them out and discuss them.
its not so much that you cant remember to hit end twice or press menu and then hit end, but its the fact that you have to take the extra step. and text messaging thing, yes it lets me know that i have a text, but i would have known that if it played the sound concurrently or if it just flashed the lights, but ok that's not major issue i understand some people like to hear the sound separately. however, if i have the phone on vibrate and am playing music, it still pauses the music when a notification comes even tho it doesn't play the notification sounds..that's just plain ridiculous.
i mean if i'm paying for a high end phone i kind of expect to manufacturer to have done research and testing in UI and human interaction to address these kind of issues.
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Actually, I like having to hit End twice. When I had my Treo phones (700p, 755p and 800w), I would always hit the red end button to turn on the screen. The problem is, if the screen goes off while you are on a call, I accidentally hang up on the person because I was trying to turn my screen back on.
I guess it is more of a preference.
So many things to say... First off wtphoto, I was not really given an opportunity to check out the phone at the time. Here's the deal: My last phone just broke - the screen would not turn on. Now for a long time I've been wanted to switch to Android but honestly I was waiting for the HD2 and Android to be put on it. I was unemployed at the time but just got a job up in Seattle. I was flying out to look for a place to live and I needed to keep in touch with head hunters, the contracting agency, etc. when, as I said, my phone died. So I bought the HTC Hero on a whim rather then going with another WinMo phone. OK. So stop assuming things and ask questions first.
Being rude?!? Hardly. You ain't seen rude yet. I was merely voicing my opinion. As for the "devs" as you say, we're not talking about HTC developers here - we're talking about ROM cookers and yes they work hard. But I don't think they are re-writing drivers or anything like that.
As for hitting menu first or whatever, listen, it's a legitimate complaint. It's foolish to make the button that turns the screen blank and locks it the same button that will hang up on the current call. Pick any other button!
As for the proximity sensor thing - actually the 2.1 ROM has that. However I rarely, if ever, put the phone up to my ear. I use a bluetooth headset - actually a stereo headset. Besides, the proximity sensor app simply and always blanked the screen and locked it. Let me repeat. I use my bluetooth headset. So I take out my phone and I dial the number. I don't even move the phone anywhere close to my face. The proximity sensor blanks and locks the phone. And often I'm about to talk to a menuing system where I'll have to hit 1 for English etc. To me the proximity sensor serves no purpose because often the first thing I need to do it disable it.
Perhaps unlike you wtphoto, I have ears which are capable of hearing both music (or spoken text) AND an alert at the same time! Point is this should be an option - you choose your way and I'll choose mine - OK?
But ajaholic is right - I was not dissing developers I was stating the problems I was having with the phone - much like the OP. You don't like my "tone". Tough ****! Get used to it.
Indeed if I'm gonna pay hundreds of dollars for a phone that I'll have to live with for years you bet your sweet ass I'm gonna be picky. Do your homework and remember Rule #1 - THE CUSTOMER I ALWAYS RIGHT. Further - Rule #2 - See Rule #1.
defaria said:
and remember Rule #1 - THE CUSTOMER I ALWAYS RIGHT. Further - Rule #2 - See Rule #1.
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not where i work.
Who is the customer of xda-dev? Dude needs to get a life.
theresthatguy said:
not where i work.
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HAHA Me Either, I get off on proving them wrong.
defaria said:
So many things to say... First off wtphoto, I was not really given an opportunity to check out the phone at the time. Here's the deal: My last phone just broke - the screen would not turn on. Now for a long time I've been wanted to switch to Android but honestly I was waiting for the HD2 and Android to be put on it. I was unemployed at the time but just got a job up in Seattle. I was flying out to look for a place to live and I needed to keep in touch with head hunters, the contracting agency, etc. when, as I said, my phone died. So I bought the HTC Hero on a whim rather then going with another WinMo phone. OK. So stop assuming things and ask questions first.
Being rude?!? Hardly. You ain't seen rude yet. I was merely voicing my opinion. As for the "devs" as you say, we're not talking about HTC developers here - we're talking about ROM cookers and yes they work hard. But I don't think they are re-writing drivers or anything like that.
As for hitting menu first or whatever, listen, it's a legitimate complaint. It's foolish to make the button that turns the screen blank and locks it the same button that will hang up on the current call. Pick any other button!
As for the proximity sensor thing - actually the 2.1 ROM has that. However I rarely, if ever, put the phone up to my ear. I use a bluetooth headset - actually a stereo headset. Besides, the proximity sensor app simply and always blanked the screen and locked it. Let me repeat. I use my bluetooth headset. So I take out my phone and I dial the number. I don't even move the phone anywhere close to my face. The proximity sensor blanks and locks the phone. And often I'm about to talk to a menuing system where I'll have to hit 1 for English etc. To me the proximity sensor serves no purpose because often the first thing I need to do it disable it.
Perhaps unlike you wtphoto, I have ears which are capable of hearing both music (or spoken text) AND an alert at the same time! Point is this should be an option - you choose your way and I'll choose mine - OK?
But ajaholic is right - I was not dissing developers I was stating the problems I was having with the phone - much like the OP. You don't like my "tone". Tough ****! Get used to it.
Indeed if I'm gonna pay hundreds of dollars for a phone that I'll have to live with for years you bet your sweet ass I'm gonna be picky. Do your homework and remember Rule #1 - THE CUSTOMER I ALWAYS RIGHT. Further - Rule #2 - See Rule #1.
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in rebut,
if you are unemployed why did you buy a $580 phone "on a whim" to begin with, I know for myself if I am spending more than $100 on something I am going to know as much as I can about the product BEFORE I purchase. second if you want to *****, ***** to HTC they are the ones that designed the phone, the devs here can only do so much. And yes if you actually read through the 2.1 thread toast and lox did have to re-write A LOT of code to get it working with the hacked up kernel that is on the CDMA hero.
I will agree that it would be NICE to be able to set the lock button like you can on the blackberry's, but it really isnt that big of a deal it took all of about 5 phone calls to get used to hitting menu then end. instead of just complaining why not try to get used to the way the phone works.
addressing the notification issue again, HTC built a phone that a MAJORITY of people liked. They can not design a phone just for you. deal with it or sell the phone and buy a winmo.
as far as your tone. untill you start compiling the kernel and cooking up ROMs, why not just be thankful that there are people out there willing to put in as much time and work as flipz, toast, lox, chuck, TTG, MoDaCo, GBhil and the rest and then release their work at no charge AND support the work that they do so that we as a community can enjoy our phones just a little more. Not to mention people like godzon, Noj, and Emerica who are putting out themes and add on's.
and the truth of the matter is that the customer is normally WRONG. most of the customers that I deal with are like you, they just want to find something to ***** about and try and get something that they feel they deserve but in actuality they dont.
as far as being picky, once again I point to the fact that you say you bought a $580 phone "on a whim" you cant be too picky when you do something like that.
Just an FYI on the Notifications and the sounds pausing - I think it is because our audio buffer is too small. Should be able to do something with it now that we have a kernel. I haven't touched the source much since it came out, but I'll see if I can at least track it down.
wtphoto said:
in rebut,
if you are unemployed why did you buy a $580 phone "on a whim" to begin with,
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I'm very much gainfully employed. I was between contracts and actually I already had a contract and was flying to Seattle to look for an apt to move to. It was no so much "on a whim" rather I didn't want to go back to a WinMo phone, which would have locked me into another contract and I needed a working phone for the journey to conduct business - apparently something you know little about...
I know for myself if I am spending more than $100 on something I am going to know as much as I can about the product BEFORE I purchase.
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That's because $100 represents a lot more of your disposable income than mine.
second if you want to *****, ***** to HTC they are the ones that designed the phone, the devs here can only do so much.
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Dude, I'm complaining about *software* problems. If the devs here are devs then what do they develop but software?
And yes if you actually read through the 2.1 thread toast and lox did have to re-write A LOT of code to get it working with the hacked up kernel that is on the CDMA hero.
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Wonderful.
I will agree that it would be NICE to be able to set the lock button like you can on the blackberry's, but it really isnt that big of a deal it took all of about 5 phone calls to get used to hitting menu then end. instead of just complaining why not try to get used to the way the phone works.
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Conform or else eh? Whatever you do do not mention that you don't like the way it works because lord knows somebody might fix it! Let me ask you this, why does it bother you so that somebody may wish to have it work in an more intelligent fashion instead of having to get used to an asinine way of doing things? And yes it is a big deal when you hang up on important people - perhaps you've never met any...
addressing the notification issue again, HTC built a phone that a MAJORITY of people liked. They can not design a phone just for you. deal with it or sell the phone and buy a winmo.
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Wonderful attitude there bud "Well everybody else likes it (because anybody who complains we call an idiot) so why don't you just shut up and get used to it". Regardless if HTC built the phone or not, surely the software could be taught to be flexible and - I'd say - reasonably intelligent (unlike some posters here).
as far as your tone. untill you start compiling the kernel and cooking up ROMs, why not just be thankful that there are people out there willing to put in as much time and work as flipz, toast, lox, chuck, TTG, MoDaCo, GBhil and the rest and then release their work at no charge AND support the work that they do so that we as a community can enjoy our phones just a little more. Not to mention people like godzon, Noj, and Emerica who are putting out themes and add on's.
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Did I ever say I wasn't thankful? If there's any doubt - thanks. However surely you're not saying that everything is 100% perfect and you allow people to have an opinion that differs from yours... Then again, perhaps not.
and the truth of the matter is that the customer is normally WRONG.
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And this son is why you'll never be that successful and $100 will always represent a lot of money to you - *YOUR* attitude.
most of the customers that I deal with are like you, they just want to find something to ***** about and try and get something that they feel they deserve but in actuality they dont.
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Ditto here too. Let's take the interruption when an alarm goes off. Surely some people like and perhaps favor that. But as assuredly others might prefer it not to. Who is right? Answer is both are right because they have different desires and neither is more right than the other. But you brand this as "a customer who just likes to ***** and get something they don't deserve".
as far as being picky, once again I point to the fact that you say you bought a $580 phone "on a whim" you cant be too picky when you do something like that.
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Well it was not $580 - it was used thus around $250 and I also got out of my contract. As I said I had the option of getting another WinMo phone and a 2 year contract or HTC Hero used with no contract. I took the later as I wanted Android and I figured I could update to other hardware (Nexus, HTC HD2 or whatever) and perhaps the provider down the road.