Database Users

New Programmer (Maybe)

Hi to all,
i'm new in xda\xda2 world...and i would like to develop under it? What i need for developing? What cpu type\model it have?

Well.. The About and Device Information screens in the System Settings menu should take care of your questions..
But if you're lazy, the XDA typically runs PocketPC 2002 on a StrongArm CPU, and the XDA II PocketPC 2003 (Windows Mobile Edition) on an Intel XScale (which is backwards compatible with ARM).
If you simply visit www.pocketpc.com and click on developers you'll end up at http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmobile/information/devprograms/default.mspx
Where you can even order a free DVD-Rom with the PocketPC SDKs, compilers etc (they will charge shipping and handling, at a freakishly high rate). You can also download that stuff.
However, you will need Visual Studio .NET as well, which is not a free download (in fact, even the academic version will set you back more than EUR 100).
I've not ventured into it myself yet, so it's quite possible you can actually do without Visual Studio (as the compilers themselves can be downloaded). Also, there's a version of gcc for pocketpc.
Any one developing for pocketpc who wants to chip in here? (I'd like to toy around with programming a bit on PPC - regretably it doesn't have a built-in scripting language like epoc32 has/had).

You only need Visual Studio .NET if you want to create .NET applications. If you are just programming in C++, I'd highly recommend downloading Embedded Visual Studios 3 and 4 and get the appropriate SDKs (all of which are free). At least, that's what I use.

What about Java Midlets?
I am thinking on writing a couple of apps for PPC, but going into VS.NET might be too deep for me. I also want to extend those later for palm and maybe desktop. No hardware specific stuff so I thought I might get away with Java which I am pretty good at.
Does anyone have anything to say - pros / cons? How midlets are on O2 in general - fast / slow, too much memory or processing power? Please share.

Why don't you get down to c++? Fast, small, general support...
--------------
У нас сегодня день вежливости, так что вы просто идите за мной и никуда не сворачивайте!

Some day
Good old C++. Too many years with Java - softened my mind... Undoubtedly C++ is the best way to go in terms of speed and size. Lets see what people say. :idea:

I've been programming in Visual .NET (VB.NET more specifically), but even after installing the SDK I have no idea where to start? When creating a project, I don't see any new project type for Pocket PC applications ? In fact, what else do I need to do if I want to program in VB.NET ?

i read that visualstudio .net 2005 will be able to make pocketpc applications in all languages not just .net applications like 2003
not sure about how you get started with vb.net since vb is very evil and nasty
but with c++ mfc and c# .net you start out with a form and there you can place components on it and program what functions they have
but if you want to make games and stuff which dont use normal windows stuff then you are better off programming them in c++ directly for the arm platform

I use Embedded VC++ and MFC as it's far tighter/smaller than .net. Purists can go completely Win32(ce) native and avoid MFC altogether but MFC does make development a good deal easier without the bloat of .net (not to mention how slow it is..).

Same thing for me. C++ with EVC tools. No mfc for me (a little purist and feel it gives a clearer code )
Best way to have samller and optimize applications

I've been programming in Visual .NET (VB.NET more specifically), but even after installing the SDK I have no idea where to start? When creating a project, I don't see any new project type for Pocket PC applications ? In fact, what else do I need to do if I want to program in VB.NET ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you have VS.NET 2003 you don't even need the SDK.
just File-> New->Project
on the left column "Project Types" choose your language and on the right click the "Smart Device Application"
Basically is like any windows application but less possibilities and if you want to create any serious application you'll have to do a lot of optimization and native coding.
Good luck

Books?
I'm also interested in programming with Embedded VC++...and was wondering if anyone know of books out there I can pick up that will help my learning process a little quicker. Its been a long time since i coded in C++ and need to refresh.
The part I'm really need help is the basic parts ...like how to get things started.
I'm confident that once I get started i'll start to remember my C++ coding.
I'm downloading the Embedded VC++ from Microsoft as I type this post ...hope it wont be too hard to understand how to create a simple "hello world" program for PPC devices
Also if anyone knows a good web sites with code samples ...please PM or post the URL, I'v seen some but not all that great
Thank You

Sometimes less is more.......
zendrui said:
Same thing for me. C++ with EVC tools. No mfc for me (a little purist and feel it gives a clearer code )
Best way to have samller and optimize applications
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As mentioned above, if you drop ATL, MFC .NET and all the implied baggage they have to bring with them to work, you are left with the old WIN32 programming model. This is now considered very 'old hat', but if all your program uses are API's in WIN32's kernel.dll, user.dll, gdi.dll etc...... i.e. the very primative windows stuff, then it is possible to write an application that will run on any version of Windows Mobile. This application will be pretty simple, but the compiled .EXE file targetted at an ARM4xx model will run on almost any Pocket PC, without any other files. (i.e. The single APP.EXE file will run on any upwardly compatable system, no fancy implementation project to create or run, just copy the release '.exe' file to the target machine, and it will run!). These days 99%+ mobile PDA's run ARM class processors. The manufacturers call them by their own processor IDs but under the hood they are all the same.
To create an app that will run on the Mobile 5/6 platform without looking like previous Mobile 2002/3/SE apps, limit the Main menu items to two. This will make sure they appear either side of the input icon, as menu items. More than two and the Mobile 5/6 menu items appear as 2002/3/SE apps in the old control bar style.

wfberg said:
(I'd like to toy around with programming a bit on PPC - regretably it doesn't have a built-in scripting language like epoc32 has/had).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As far as scripting goes... I'm a big fan of Mortscript. It's so simple... I guess I'm a little purist myself

Basic 4PPC
Basic for Pocket PC, has anyone tried this. I went to the site and it only cost around 40.00 US. I've worked with "basic" before and the progs were usually bloated and sluggish. Wonder if this would be the same.

i have started developing in ppl language the program name is PIDE from ariana soft..its very easy..it also lets u make games
ive created my first clock in it

how to run symbian software on xdaII

hello to all
I want to run one application who is designed for symbian on my xdaII,I have sis (installer) and files extracted from sis (app,rsc,aif),but I need to know how to make conversion of application.decompile from symbian and recompile for pocketpc.also I want to know convert win32 applications to run on pocketpc.
any info is wellcome.

I dont know if this is any help.
http://symbian.compactbyte.com/
http://www.inf.u-szeged.hu/gcc-arm/

this is completely impossible

What a wish...
Like asking to run all Windows Apps on LINUX OS - without using an intermediary !!
rgs/DD

You will require the source code for each application and then rewrite everything to be compatible with the other operating system.
Very unlikely to happen. You may be able to use an emulator, eg for the Palm OS, but not generally symbian (eg p900) <> WinCE so far.
V

Porting Win32 apps shouldn't be too difficult as scene as the WinCE API's and the Win32 API's are pretty much similar in most respects. However full access to the source code and a lot of spare time would be an essential. Porting apps from Symbian would be to say the least stupid, you may as well write the app yourself from scratch than try and port code written for a completely different architecture!

From what I've read it is possible to port Symbian type apps to Windows Mobile & vice versa. I would like to try porting the New Flashlite 3 to WM. Anyone have any links to resources that may help? The reason is that adobe has stated that it does not intend to port the new FL3 to the WM platform.

no it's not. you'll need to have the sources first. and then you'll need to restructre the whole sourcecode to match the api.
if you want youtube ... take flash 7 for ppc.

NVM... I see that I can possibly use some of the engine code but must completely rework the GUI...
BTW, flash 7 will NOT give you youtube, although YT has nothing to do with the ???
Thx.

what needed to program??

Hello,
i have visual c# express, is there any chance to get a template for mobile development? or any other good ide without downloading 200 single files to get embedded visual c++ 4.0 working?
i mean something simple like visual c# full version?
i want to start programming but i dont get it, because no right ide is out there only this ms ****

got it worked,downloaded evc++4.0, dont like it
im more into assembler/basic progrmaming languages
is it possbile to use assembler for programming? something like nasm to the desktop pc world?

If you want to do assembly, use evc to start you off then put assemble into that. I used to do this on the desktop (pc) all the time when I was writing a program to controll some hardware over a parallel port. I see in the evc4 documentation some info on inline assembly so it should be fine there (its part of the c++ language to allow this).
What is it you need that low level for? To do an entire project that way must be very hard.

thanks for the info
i only asked for imformation, later i want to write my own bootloader,l simple kernel,like i did for pc, maybe getting more into the low level programming, which i like more than the high level stuff
is there no basic language for windows mobile that allows you to create easily applications, for free
sometimes i dont understand the developers, doing some weird stuff like evc++ where you need so much sdk/extra stuff only to develop, why not packing everything into a basic language and give this language all the apis which are needed
well thats something i think should be more supportet :lol:

Confused
I thought of starting it myself. I'm not very into "Visual" products, I'm a C++ to Java converted person More of a Java person. Anyway, was trying to step my foot into this realm and I've found a few SDK that can be downloaded and use, what should I start first? There are several choices that I've for from M$
1. Windows Mobile 5.0 SDK for Pocket PC Genuine Windows download
2. eMbedded Visual C++ 4.0
3. SDK for Windows Mobile 2003-based Pocket PCs
Confused...

Wow, writing a bootloader. What do you intend to do with it? Custom OS or something else?
Guys, this is unlikely to be helpful for assembler etc., but I wrote an opus about an introduction to programming, from a beginner's point of view (ie mine!) a few days ago. Might be helpful to some.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?p=209136#209136
V

Hi everybody,
I'm a really-confused guy about programming PDA...
I have a PocketPC 2003 device. I have to use TAPI for my university final project and I want to establish a data call through GSM from this device to a desktop PC with a GSM USB device working as modem.
Now...
-I've built a dll with TAPI functions with eVC++ 4.0
-I've built a wrapper in c# with VS2005, a smart device application that calls the functions I need stored in the previous dll (using p/invoke).
-I installed pocket PC2003 SDK from Microsoft.
Am I right?does the pocketPC support TAPI or not?I'm really confused b/c I'm reading tons of forums and some say it works and someother say the contrary...
please, only tell me if I'm using the right method of programnming.
thanx

looki here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=38223
That question would probably have been better put in one of the other tapi threads.
I know you want to do ppc to pc but give that a try first. If you can borrow someone else's phone because you will need two ppc for this test. If you can communicate ppc - ppc then ppc -pc should be easy.
Every ppc phone I have had can make and receive data calls, but I have not rewritten the program to work with wm2005 so if thats your os don't bother.
There is another way to get a connection between a ppc -pc over a call. One of my phone/gprs cards had a gprs config tool that let me manually enter the number for gprs. After that I was able to use the terminal services client on ppc to take over my pc. The ppc tries to connect via the gprs and that dials my home phone then I set up the pc to accept incoming phone calls. After logging in it worked very well as long as some data was being transfered. The problem was that if no transfer occured for more than a few seconds the connection dropped out. I think its because the modem was treating a regular call as gprs, ie doing nothing when its not needed.

well vijay, i only want to get some outputs on my pocket phone, testing stuff etc
the problem is i dont have any experience about the bootsectors of the sd card (i think thats the only way not to erase wm2003), else i dont have any experience about the architectur
on pc its easy, because you have much references and some forums about this stuff, but for ppc i dont think there is any forum about os developing.
on pc you can easily use a floppy , writing the bootloader in the bootsector and let the bootloader call the kernel, thats it (for the beginning)
has anybody some stuff about it? some informations, would be helpfull
thanks

Have you seen itsme's posts (I think) in the wiki, and generally on google. The kernel stuff there was whoosh, right over my head. Incredible work, definitive I'd say. The founding fathers of XDA devs have done quite a lot of work on this stuff I think.
V

New programmer on pocketPC... advice?

hey guys, I'm a career developer with tons of experience in a lot of things except PocketPC. I want to play around a bit with PPC, but would like to hear about the development platforms, languages, etc. that you're using and what you like about them. I don't know anybody personally that's even remotely interested.
I'm currently using VIsualStudio2005/C# for my day job, and am pondering whether that's a good fit for PPC. A lot of documentation exists for both managed and native PPC C# code. Managed code is more like the stuff I do all day.
What I've found so far is that managed code requires runtimes to be installed (already there on WM6 i hear), there's a noticeable delay when starting a managed program, and a lot of functions are missing from the .NetCF.
I'd probably be writing business apps (database stuff, web back-end client/server, etc.) as well as hacks like today plugins, utility programs, etc.
Should I just start right out with native coding, or try and hack away with managed code. What's your opinion?

roboHaxx,
As i'm sure you're already aware of, choice of language on this environment really depends on the application you're designing.
I tend to use Visual Studio/C# for applications that I need to develop rapidly where I'm not too concerned about load times. The .NetCF libraries really helps in ensuring things get done quicker but there's a tradeoff in speed and functionality but not by too much thanks to all the new spec devices that are coming out.
If I'm developing something that doesnt need to get done faster, and I need quick loading times (like today plugins for example), I tend to stick with C (evc4).

Personally I stay away from .NET and all related stuff like it was toxic waste.
As kunz wrote it is too slow for PPC (at least for now) and if you want to use the .NET CF 2 any user with a device prier to WM 6 (which is the majority for at least another year) will have to install 5MB worth of run time.
But there are some very nice apps made with CF already out there like Hitchhiker so it defiantly has its place.
One problem though: if you want to develop system components like today plugins, keyboards (SIP) or control panel applets you will need a component written in C / C++. All those are DLLs that the system expects to export certain functions. This can not be done with managed code, and as far as I know not at all in C#.
One final recommendation: look up all threads started by Vijay555.
He wrote a pretty good summary of programing tools and options for WM devices somewhere on this forum.

Thanks for the replies. I'm think I'm starting to get a grip on this platform.
Sounds like the same principles as programming on a PC. For business apps (like in my day job), the managed, quick-to-market environments like C#, .net and CF2 prevail. But for performance, versatility and access to everything, C is the way to go. C++ if you must.
by the way, I thnk you can create DLLs in any Visual Studio language. I do it all the time with C# and VB. Now whether these DLLs can export the functions that are needed in PPC, I don't know the answer to that.
kunz, you said
If I'm developing something that doesnt need to get done faster, and I need quick loading times (like today plugins for example), I tend to stick with C (evc4).
pardon the dumb question but, what is evc4? A compiler I presume. That was going to be my next question. Which compilers do you like?

eVC is eMbedded Visual C++ 4.0 its a free C++ IDE for Windows Mobile from Microsoft.
It is almost identical to VS 6 (if you are familiar with it).
It won't except WM 5 or 6 SDKs, but any program create on it (with WM 2003 SDKs) will run on any Smartphone or Pocket PC starting with WM 2003 through WM 6.
For older versions you will need eVC 3.

The following pages should provide some useful information:
http://channel9.msdn.com/wiki/default.aspx/MobileDeveloper.HomePage
http://www.pocketpcdn.com/tools/index.html
Enjoy!

Hi,
I am programmer but I'm new in mobile development too.
I have an ideal to write a program that can speak the caller number instead of ringtone. The problem is that I don't know how to get the receiving call events.
Can we solve this situation with .net compact framework?
Anyone have documents to share?
Thanks

Beginner's pointers?

Hi chaps,
I've just got myself an O2 XDA Orbit - great device, and now I'm looking for developing for it - just simple things at first, like a Blackjack game, or a simple Today feature with the sun and moon times on it; this sort of thing.
I've got Visual Studio .NET 2003, but I see that in order to program the latest devices, you need VS 2005 (?). So, I've downloaded Embedded Visual Studio C++ v4 with all the SDK's and I'm hoping to develop for an earlier version of Windows Mobile, and hope that it works.
So while I've got all that, I'm now stuck as to where to start! Can anyone point me to a good book, or something online which will help me through a simple CE application? How you do get the Today screen working, for example? I realise that this might be asking a lot, but a couple of pointers would be great - if you could!
Many thanks,
MrP.

I'm just starting out myself with windows mobile programming. You can find a lot of info from msdn. Here is an example Hello app.
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms912017.aspx
You can find a lot of good stuff at the code project site also.
http://www.codeproject.com/ce/
eVC has wizards that will get you going. One thing I found out about using eVC is that you won't be able to debug your programs on a WM5/6 device since the SDK's are not compatible with them. It can be a bit of a challenge to fix bugs without a debugger. I can't get the debugger to work with the emulator either for some reason.
A question for other eVC developers out there. Is it possible to use the emulator to debug programs or do you all have an old PPC2003 device that you use to do your debugging? Or have you all moved on to VS2005?

I've bought visual studio 2005 standard and it is great - it fully supports WM5/6 (with sdk) and runtime debugging - for .exe it works well but I have problems with .dll - I can't debug dll files - does anyone know how to make it?

Pleas look up threads started by vijay555.
He wrote a comprehensive article on the tools and possibilities to begin developing for these devices.
Just as a quick side note:
There is no need what so ever to pay M$ money for VS 2005 if you want to develop in C / C++.
Apps written in eVC++ 4 will work perfectly with WM 5 and 6 and if you need any missing API (not many of those) you have 2 choices:
1) Manually unpack the SDK and link to it.
2) Use implicit linking (that LoadLibrary and GetProcAdress).

levenum said:
Pleas look up threads started by vijay555.
He wrote a comprehensive article on the tools and possibilities to begin developing for these devices.
Just as a quick side note:
There is no need what so ever to pay M$ money for VS 2005 if you want to develop in C / C++.
Apps written in eVC++ 4 will work perfectly with WM 5 and 6 and if you need any missing API (not many of those) you have 2 choices:
1) Manually unpack the SDK and link to it.
2) Use implicit linking (that LoadLibrary and GetProcAdress).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry about the delay in replying...
Many thanks for the pointers.. Just a matter of starting now!