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Hi to all,
i'm new in xda\xda2 world...and i would like to develop under it? What i need for developing? What cpu type\model it have?
Well.. The About and Device Information screens in the System Settings menu should take care of your questions..
But if you're lazy, the XDA typically runs PocketPC 2002 on a StrongArm CPU, and the XDA II PocketPC 2003 (Windows Mobile Edition) on an Intel XScale (which is backwards compatible with ARM).
If you simply visit www.pocketpc.com and click on developers you'll end up at http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmobile/information/devprograms/default.mspx
Where you can even order a free DVD-Rom with the PocketPC SDKs, compilers etc (they will charge shipping and handling, at a freakishly high rate). You can also download that stuff.
However, you will need Visual Studio .NET as well, which is not a free download (in fact, even the academic version will set you back more than EUR 100).
I've not ventured into it myself yet, so it's quite possible you can actually do without Visual Studio (as the compilers themselves can be downloaded). Also, there's a version of gcc for pocketpc.
Any one developing for pocketpc who wants to chip in here? (I'd like to toy around with programming a bit on PPC - regretably it doesn't have a built-in scripting language like epoc32 has/had).
You only need Visual Studio .NET if you want to create .NET applications. If you are just programming in C++, I'd highly recommend downloading Embedded Visual Studios 3 and 4 and get the appropriate SDKs (all of which are free). At least, that's what I use.
What about Java Midlets?
I am thinking on writing a couple of apps for PPC, but going into VS.NET might be too deep for me. I also want to extend those later for palm and maybe desktop. No hardware specific stuff so I thought I might get away with Java which I am pretty good at.
Does anyone have anything to say - pros / cons? How midlets are on O2 in general - fast / slow, too much memory or processing power? Please share.
Why don't you get down to c++? Fast, small, general support...
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У нас сегодня день вежливости, так что вы просто идите за мной и никуда не сворачивайте!
Some day
Good old C++. Too many years with Java - softened my mind... Undoubtedly C++ is the best way to go in terms of speed and size. Lets see what people say. :idea:
I've been programming in Visual .NET (VB.NET more specifically), but even after installing the SDK I have no idea where to start? When creating a project, I don't see any new project type for Pocket PC applications ? In fact, what else do I need to do if I want to program in VB.NET ?
i read that visualstudio .net 2005 will be able to make pocketpc applications in all languages not just .net applications like 2003
not sure about how you get started with vb.net since vb is very evil and nasty
but with c++ mfc and c# .net you start out with a form and there you can place components on it and program what functions they have
but if you want to make games and stuff which dont use normal windows stuff then you are better off programming them in c++ directly for the arm platform
I use Embedded VC++ and MFC as it's far tighter/smaller than .net. Purists can go completely Win32(ce) native and avoid MFC altogether but MFC does make development a good deal easier without the bloat of .net (not to mention how slow it is..).
Same thing for me. C++ with EVC tools. No mfc for me (a little purist and feel it gives a clearer code )
Best way to have samller and optimize applications
I've been programming in Visual .NET (VB.NET more specifically), but even after installing the SDK I have no idea where to start? When creating a project, I don't see any new project type for Pocket PC applications ? In fact, what else do I need to do if I want to program in VB.NET ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you have VS.NET 2003 you don't even need the SDK.
just File-> New->Project
on the left column "Project Types" choose your language and on the right click the "Smart Device Application"
Basically is like any windows application but less possibilities and if you want to create any serious application you'll have to do a lot of optimization and native coding.
Good luck
Books?
I'm also interested in programming with Embedded VC++...and was wondering if anyone know of books out there I can pick up that will help my learning process a little quicker. Its been a long time since i coded in C++ and need to refresh.
The part I'm really need help is the basic parts ...like how to get things started.
I'm confident that once I get started i'll start to remember my C++ coding.
I'm downloading the Embedded VC++ from Microsoft as I type this post ...hope it wont be too hard to understand how to create a simple "hello world" program for PPC devices
Also if anyone knows a good web sites with code samples ...please PM or post the URL, I'v seen some but not all that great
Thank You
Sometimes less is more.......
zendrui said:
Same thing for me. C++ with EVC tools. No mfc for me (a little purist and feel it gives a clearer code )
Best way to have samller and optimize applications
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As mentioned above, if you drop ATL, MFC .NET and all the implied baggage they have to bring with them to work, you are left with the old WIN32 programming model. This is now considered very 'old hat', but if all your program uses are API's in WIN32's kernel.dll, user.dll, gdi.dll etc...... i.e. the very primative windows stuff, then it is possible to write an application that will run on any version of Windows Mobile. This application will be pretty simple, but the compiled .EXE file targetted at an ARM4xx model will run on almost any Pocket PC, without any other files. (i.e. The single APP.EXE file will run on any upwardly compatable system, no fancy implementation project to create or run, just copy the release '.exe' file to the target machine, and it will run!). These days 99%+ mobile PDA's run ARM class processors. The manufacturers call them by their own processor IDs but under the hood they are all the same.
To create an app that will run on the Mobile 5/6 platform without looking like previous Mobile 2002/3/SE apps, limit the Main menu items to two. This will make sure they appear either side of the input icon, as menu items. More than two and the Mobile 5/6 menu items appear as 2002/3/SE apps in the old control bar style.
wfberg said:
(I'd like to toy around with programming a bit on PPC - regretably it doesn't have a built-in scripting language like epoc32 has/had).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As far as scripting goes... I'm a big fan of Mortscript. It's so simple... I guess I'm a little purist myself
Basic 4PPC
Basic for Pocket PC, has anyone tried this. I went to the site and it only cost around 40.00 US. I've worked with "basic" before and the progs were usually bloated and sluggish. Wonder if this would be the same.
i have started developing in ppl language the program name is PIDE from ariana soft..its very easy..it also lets u make games
ive created my first clock in it
Hi folks
Recenty I got the Windows XP Embedded kit, and I was really satisfied and surprised with the performance of the directly built system on an old machine like a P1 @ 200 MHz with 64 MB of RAM, without a hard disk.
The main goal would be to run truly win32 apps on mobile devices, to give better functionality and compatibility.
Yet the builder supports x86 architecture only, but cannot be a big problem to port it to ARM pocessors.
What might be difficult are these things:
-Getting win32 drivers for built-in devices (ex. integrated SDIO/USB WLAN, BT adapter, touchscreen, and sound devices, and apps for them!)
-Saving user data on turning off (Ebmedded systems are designed for a workstation, like a cash register: prebuilt apps, and nothing more comfort ) like WM200x
If anybody has any suggestion are to get a warm welcome
bye
Yet the builder supports x86 architecture only, but cannot be a big problem to port it to ARM pocessors.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you kidding me?
This would mean reverse engineering and recompiling every binary in the OS.
Do you have any idea how many hours something like that would take?
yup, you're right, but in theory it's possibe. I've seen a running DOS on a Microchip micro-controller, or for example the Atmel STK 1000 is Linux based, also seen an mPlayer app operational on the demo board at the college.
as you see, i'm not an experienced programmer, but i'm not afraid to ask
Yeah, the basic low-level binaries must be recompiled, and once it's ok, it might be usable with regular win32 apps, until you run an old DOS app, wich directly access the hardware.
A few years ago i was able to port Z80 software to 8086, and it wasn't easy.
I don't really know these things, just want to see opinions, possibilities, and suggestions.
exe files are binarys which are instructions directly for the cpu
it's not parsed by the operating system
so compiling the os is not enough every application needs to be recompiled too
The programs you mentioned have source available in one way or another (since DOS is very old there are clones, like freeDOS).
If you have the full source for an app and the right compiler, porting it to another CPU is feasible.
But, this is not the case with embedded XP. Getting the full source is impossible which means most of the system will have to be rewritten from scratch.
Just look at the Wine project to see what it takes, and they "have it easy" - they are just trying to simulate the APIs not change processor architecture. (Lets make it clear - ARM instruction set is very different from x86).
And as Rudegar said it will not let you run any program that has not been specially compiled for ARM CPU.
I know it sounds like we are trying to kill you idea here but its nothing personal, unfortunately it just isn't feasible. We would all like to be able to run desktop apps on our devices, but simply having embedded XP on them would not accomplish that. Also while many old DOS apps can be run using various emulators like pocketDOS, almost all Win32 apps take more resources than our little gadgets can offer.
I am fairly sure though that in 5 -10 years that problem will be fixed.
<_< man hours or not, reveng'ing this will have a bigger impact than just winDOS Mobile devices. Desktops have a use for this, definitely (because the Vista-Only crap is starting to hit the market). Too bad they don't provide assembly in programming classes anymore, obviously because they don't want anyone else to reverse engineer anything and spoil their foisting fun. <_<
In any case, IIRC XP Embedded is missing the install/uninstall engine, so you can't customize it after it's flashed onto the board. This isn't quite a good start - XPLite or 98Lite are better for reverse engineering from scratch (but they're too powerful for mobile devices).
The other alternative is porting ReactOS, which is a reimplementation of W2K. Those guys are "having a lot of fun" getting things to work, tho. <_<
Maybye Windows CE6 yes, but Windows XP Embedded no, because they must run at 686-AT/X platform IMB. Sorry of my English
linux would be a path
with most linux programs you can compile them yourself
using good old
./configure
make
make install
of cause gui programs could have issues displaying correct
on such a small screen
You MIGHT be able to pull it off by installing a minimal (very!) WinMo firmware and then have it autorun Bochs, which is known to be able to run the PC version of XP.. A customised, thinned-down XPe image should run fine under Bochs.
--W5i2
hey guys, I'm a career developer with tons of experience in a lot of things except PocketPC. I want to play around a bit with PPC, but would like to hear about the development platforms, languages, etc. that you're using and what you like about them. I don't know anybody personally that's even remotely interested.
I'm currently using VIsualStudio2005/C# for my day job, and am pondering whether that's a good fit for PPC. A lot of documentation exists for both managed and native PPC C# code. Managed code is more like the stuff I do all day.
What I've found so far is that managed code requires runtimes to be installed (already there on WM6 i hear), there's a noticeable delay when starting a managed program, and a lot of functions are missing from the .NetCF.
I'd probably be writing business apps (database stuff, web back-end client/server, etc.) as well as hacks like today plugins, utility programs, etc.
Should I just start right out with native coding, or try and hack away with managed code. What's your opinion?
roboHaxx,
As i'm sure you're already aware of, choice of language on this environment really depends on the application you're designing.
I tend to use Visual Studio/C# for applications that I need to develop rapidly where I'm not too concerned about load times. The .NetCF libraries really helps in ensuring things get done quicker but there's a tradeoff in speed and functionality but not by too much thanks to all the new spec devices that are coming out.
If I'm developing something that doesnt need to get done faster, and I need quick loading times (like today plugins for example), I tend to stick with C (evc4).
Personally I stay away from .NET and all related stuff like it was toxic waste.
As kunz wrote it is too slow for PPC (at least for now) and if you want to use the .NET CF 2 any user with a device prier to WM 6 (which is the majority for at least another year) will have to install 5MB worth of run time.
But there are some very nice apps made with CF already out there like Hitchhiker so it defiantly has its place.
One problem though: if you want to develop system components like today plugins, keyboards (SIP) or control panel applets you will need a component written in C / C++. All those are DLLs that the system expects to export certain functions. This can not be done with managed code, and as far as I know not at all in C#.
One final recommendation: look up all threads started by Vijay555.
He wrote a pretty good summary of programing tools and options for WM devices somewhere on this forum.
Thanks for the replies. I'm think I'm starting to get a grip on this platform.
Sounds like the same principles as programming on a PC. For business apps (like in my day job), the managed, quick-to-market environments like C#, .net and CF2 prevail. But for performance, versatility and access to everything, C is the way to go. C++ if you must.
by the way, I thnk you can create DLLs in any Visual Studio language. I do it all the time with C# and VB. Now whether these DLLs can export the functions that are needed in PPC, I don't know the answer to that.
kunz, you said
If I'm developing something that doesnt need to get done faster, and I need quick loading times (like today plugins for example), I tend to stick with C (evc4).
pardon the dumb question but, what is evc4? A compiler I presume. That was going to be my next question. Which compilers do you like?
eVC is eMbedded Visual C++ 4.0 its a free C++ IDE for Windows Mobile from Microsoft.
It is almost identical to VS 6 (if you are familiar with it).
It won't except WM 5 or 6 SDKs, but any program create on it (with WM 2003 SDKs) will run on any Smartphone or Pocket PC starting with WM 2003 through WM 6.
For older versions you will need eVC 3.
The following pages should provide some useful information:
http://channel9.msdn.com/wiki/default.aspx/MobileDeveloper.HomePage
http://www.pocketpcdn.com/tools/index.html
Enjoy!
Hi,
I am programmer but I'm new in mobile development too.
I have an ideal to write a program that can speak the caller number instead of ringtone. The problem is that I don't know how to get the receiving call events.
Can we solve this situation with .net compact framework?
Anyone have documents to share?
Thanks
As I'm new in this forum: Hi everybody!
I have been programming Windows CE-based devices for many years, but no experience yet with the HTC ARTEMIS (P3300). Therefore, I've a few questions and hope to get answers from this forum:
- I assume, it is possible to program visual-C++ based applications for the programme. SDK for Windows Mobile should be available at Microsoft. Is that correct?
All further questions are based on the assumption that visual-C++ (or embedded VC) is used for application development.
1. Is it possible to direclty receive incoming Short Messages (SMS) via the application? (Any keyword on how this works would also be welcome)
2. Is it possible to query the battery status from the device?
3. Can the GSM module easily be accessed and can Cell-IDs or carrier IDs be read from the device? (In particular, I want to identify the home country of the current mobile carrier) - If yes, how does it work?
4. Is it possible to restrict the appearance of the ARTEMIS. I.e., the user should only be able to access "my" application and mobile phone (voice) features. All other applications and system functions shall be hidden to the user.
Thanks in advance and kind regards,
ma_gu
yeah the stk can be downloaded and accessed from visual studio
1. i would asume so even if it had to be don with a dll hook
2. yeah many 3th party applications can display it asume there is an api call to get it
3. yeah there is an api forget the name searching in this forum should give some hits
4. yeah but if they hardreset or reflash the device it would be more troublesome
Hi Rudegar,
thanks for your fast reply. That sounds good and I think, I'll be able to find the regarding API calls (anyway, if somebody could provide some keywords, it would be very welcome).
But I have never restricted the appearance of any Windows-CE based device (question #4). How can this be done? At the beginning, I assumed that this needs rebuilding of the operating system via a system builder, but that's obviously not the case. Can you give me some hints on how to do this?
Kind regards,
ma_gu
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=256646&highlight=programming
the api is called ril
depend on who you wanna develop really
1 option is making pure arm code (kinda skipping the ce) using gcc compiler for arm
2 option is the high lvl c# .net or c++ .net path but it's not that fast and dont have as much os access as pure win32 stk and even microMFC
3 option microMFC old ms class lib for c++ oop the granddad of .net you might say
4 pure win32 stk you handle the msg loop and everything more work but more power where many developrs who do today items and programs end up
if you can live with .net it's the easy path
if you want more then starting with microMFC and moving on to pure win32stk is prob the thing
java is not that well supported by wm imho
oooh yeah and you dont use platform builders and stuff like that
unless you are building roms from scratch and got access to all drivers for spc devices
you start a new project in embedded visual stuio or visual stuio 200X
and pick your path as in .net or the likes
and then you can debug using a simulator or directly on the device
it use activesync to get the exe there
otherwise you can normaly activesync the exe file to your device and run it directly
or copy it to a sd card and run it from there
Hello,
After a decade of not doing C, I find that alot of things have changed when programming c++ native for CE. Even things like:
string somestring;
no longer function. Wow!.
strcpy has been replaced with StringCchCopy. Wow, MS has done a number here... and so on...
Anyhow I searched xda and found allot of good threads. But what if I'm looking at re-learning C++, with a focus on CE programming only? What books and other resources would you recommend, its almost like starting from scratch. I got vs2005 + emu + been reading allot of MSDN, did some basic apps. etc.
BTW: How the .... do you declare a variable length string???
and in VS2005 is running the debugger the only way to get the app to start automatically ???
Thanks
*bump*, anyone?
Couple of notes:
1) I strongly recommend avoiding VS, it is unbearably slow and balky.
2) strcpy and all the other functions are still supported by c runtime on CE (VS 2005 complains about them but you can ignore it). The problem is all windows API on CE use UNICODE so you have to declare strings as WCHAR (thats MS speak for unsigned short) and use wcscpy, and such.
3) The only book I know on CE specifically is this and I only read the two sample chapters online, so can't really recommend it. (Though the sample chapters were very useful). What you need is to get a good book on Win32 programming that will get you well on your way.
4) There is an MFC class CString which wraps up all string related functions very nicely. If you are not using MFC but clean C/C++ the only thing I can think of is malloc and free or the C++ versions new and delete.
Check out the links in my sig if you want to see code examples of small but functioning apps.
I disagree with levenum's comment on VS, but agree at the same time (weird I know). I wouldn't use VS for native development because it has A LOT of extra features that I think would be useless for native developers. Also, the lighter eVC++ has pretty much everything you need to write native apps.
I had this book called "Programming Windows CE 3.0" or something along those lines a few years ago. I got it for like $3 on Amazon. If you can find an updated version of that (or even the old version would be useful) then you should buy it. It will show you all you need to know to get started. You can learn the new api's from browsing msdn.
If you're only a little rusty with C/C++ I would suggest jumping right in to the Sdk samples and seeing how they do things.
Thanks, the reason why I wanted to use VS is so that maybe later I wouldn't mind going into MFC. So having one platform would be nice.
So far I have done some basic things, like drawing, etc, but I find I'm having a harder time making strings and including the api's to work. Almost all of the msdn examples fail to compile properly.
I have an old book MFC for Windows 95 by MS, is it even worth looking at ?
robp said:
I disagree with levenum's comment on VS, but agree at the same time (weird I know). I wouldn't use VS for native development because it has A LOT of extra features that I think would be useless for native developers. Also, the lighter eVC++ has pretty much everything you need to write native apps.
I had this book called "Programming Windows CE 3.0" or something along those lines a few years ago. I got it for like $3 on Amazon. If you can find an updated version of that (or even the old version would be useful) then you should buy it. It will show you all you need to know to get started. You can learn the new api's from browsing msdn.
If you're only a little rusty with C/C++ I would suggest jumping right in to the Sdk samples and seeing how they do things.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
could you provide some links for msdn. also i know how to program in c but how do i compile a program for windows ce could you recommend a free one. thanks
The only way to code for Windows Mobile for free is to use embedded Visual C++. You'll have to google it to find a link.
Once you have that downloaded, check out:
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb158662.aspx
The new solution files most probably won't open in eVC++ but you can create new projects and add the source files yourself.
You'll want to look at the samples in the Win32 folder.
robp said:
The only way to code for Windows Mobile for free is to use embedded Visual C++.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's not entirely true - there's still ceGCC (it works on linux or windows using cygwin) - however this one lacks resource (window, forms, etc) editor (but if you have resources already created it will compile/link properly). But it works great with apps where you want to handle all the graphics and user interaction by yourself (like games, or programs with 100% custom UI), for example using SDL, pocketHAL, etc.
Also, wxWidgets seems to have support for windowsCE, and might be made to work with ceGCC, but i haven't tested it yet.
Sorry, I actually meant to put "(I think)" after that sentence lol.
Actually I think you should be able to use any C++ compiler as long as you have the necessary libraries, and I think all the libs you need are in the sdk download. But the easiest route for beginners in native coding is probably eVC++
Well, now i can agree with you
That is, unless you want to create games - in that case ceGCC+XFlib might be a good way to go for someone with general programming knowledge, but not familiar with winCE-specific coding. Some games coded with it (and their sources) can be found on XFlib homepage: www.xflib.net.
thanks for the info
Ok, as I wouldn't mind at a later time going into MFC, and building dll's for mobile. How much "harder" would it be for me to learn VS2005 native for ce instead of using evc++ ?
Just trying to weight the cons and the pros. BTW where can I get eVC ?
Thank you.
Two more free options: PellesC and Lazarus + WinCE add-on
I don't think it would much harder. Once you get the hang of it you'll find that it makes life much easier. If you buy a boxed retail version it comes with a nice book that will take you from n00b to master in a few hours (not really but it's still a great reference).
I think the hardest part of upgrading to newer versions of VS is learning the new project file setup. Atleast that's what it looks like from watching other students at my school go from VS6.0 to VS2k5 and 2k8.
Also, I should note that I prefer VS2008 hands-down, but I don't disagree with other people who say eVC++ is faster. While I haven't done any real native development since eVC++ 4 was new, I still dabble a bit (especially since getting active on this forum) and VS2005 works great to me.
So, my advice would be to use the newest tools available to you, unless money is an issue. But don't be worried about upgrading. Your life will only get easier once you do.
robp said:
Also, I should note that I prefer VS2008 hands-down, but I don't disagree with other people who say eVC++ is faster. While I haven't done any real native development since eVC++ 4 was new, I still dabble a bit (especially since getting active on this forum) and VS2005 works great to me.
So, my advice would be to use the newest tools available to you, unless money is an issue. But don't be worried about upgrading. Your life will only get easier once you do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I just got eVC and will give it a try too. But I am pretty much used to vs2005. I do not think I can't afford the vs2008 right now. How much difference is there between 2005 and 2008 when it comes to programming for WM?
I'm looking to create some commercial applications for WM. For the last 10 years I'v been doing .com apps, now I figured I would do some for the mobile platform. We have all the graphics/design/marketing guys for .com, so it should work out just fine for WM.
One thing we noticed when working with exec type people is their frustration, I see exactly how we can help them resolve their frustration with WM, Symb, and java type phones...
Thanks
marek101 said:
Well I just got eVC and will give it a try too. But I am pretty much used to vs2005. I do not think I can't afford the vs2008 right now. How much difference is there between 2005 and 2008 when it comes to programming for WM?
I'm looking to create some commercial applications for WM. For the last 10 years I'v been doing .com apps, now I figured I would do some for the mobile platform. We have all the graphics/design/marketing guys for .com, so it should work out just fine for WM.
One thing we noticed when working with exec type people is their frustration, I see exactly how we can help them resolve their frustration with WM, Symb, and java type phones...
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Honestly I wouldn't rush to upgrade. VS2008 is better, but doesn't add much to the WM development arena.
And if you already have VS2005 and are used to it, I would stick with that and forget about eVC++. You should give the compact framework a try. I promise you'll love it
compact framework, that's a part of the .NET isn't it?.
For the time being, for learning purposes, I think I will stick with the native for now. Once I get a grip, I will explore .net. The thing is I really don't like bulky apps for WM. Most of the apps I came across that required the .net framework were slow, any apps that use the .net with a today plug in seem to really slow down my phone.
BTW is HTC Home plug in written with the .net?
Thanks
marek, it seems to me that you are under the impression that you need VS 2005 to use MFC.
eVC fully supports MFC as well as creating DLLs and MFC DLLs.
It admit the reason I don't like VS is because I only write in native and don't like .NET languages a lot.
Since you want to create commercial apps you should note that any app created with WM 5 SKD will not be backwards compatible with WM 2003 which reduces your clients range.
You should compile with WM 2003 SDK which is forward compatible.
Our primary target audience would be WM6. We will make every effort to make WM5 compatible apps. Yes it does reduces significantly the client base, but also there are many positives...
We are still looking for more programmers for the simple concepts we have developed. I believe this will work out just fine. Having WM5 support is a "would be nice" but not required. WM5 has a bag of problems, 2003 I don't even want to touch it.
Thanks
I have to admit that I love VS because I love using .net
But VS is also a much more powerful editor in general than eVC is. It's still nice but the experience isn't as smooth as it is in newer versions, which is expected since the newer versions build on the previous ones.