Database Users

Remove files from ROM

How can I remove from the original ROM some files like T-Mobile, AIM ... etc. ?
I cooked up a 4.00.10 T-Mobile with GPRS monitor and batterypack but i want some more addons.
Can someone tell me what steps are required to remove from the ROM some files ?
Thanks,
Decebal

ROM = Read Only Memory.

But, i've we're able to add Programs to the ROM in the ROMkitchen, i think we're also able to remove programs.
Regards
Stefan

cruisin-thru said:
ROM = Read Only Memory.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
obviously i do not deserve that
i was talking about the ROM image and since i've already succeded in putting into the ROM two apps i want to try something else.
so if anyone know how to remove at least T-mobile and AIM files from the image i'll be happy.
thanks,
Decebal

I believe they are in an area not able to be modified.

I was just quoting from that site, it does state that it cannot be erased, modified etc, no offence meant here. :roll:

The mkrom tools will allow you to 'unpack' a rom, i.e. extract all the files that are in it.
A rom, to the best of my understanding, has a 'native' or stock part to it, and then a series of XIP chains -- programs that are added into the free spaces of the rom.
I dont know what happens if you try to remove files from a rom that are part of the standard build...
Maybe the TMobile stuff is in a 'removeable' section of the ROM... there is also the 'operator' section... I am assuming that is a location that will give the 'operator' or creator of the rom space to put specialized programs, such as TMobiles phone apps, etc.
So, it seems that your best bet is to get the mkrom tools and read about how to extract/remove files/rebuild a rom.
Hey, it may even work!
J

You can rebuild a rom image from extracted files and leave some files out but Mkrom does not use compression and therefore the rom you end up with will probably be bigger than the rom you started with.
Richard

If I am correct, an eeprom is something else than a flash-rom.
so the article at least states it incorrectly.
if it is flash, you should be able to modify it.

XDA developer Itsme said:
If I am correct, an eeprom is something else than a flash-rom.
so the article at least states it incorrectly.
if it is flash, you should be able to modify it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now, I do think that the real question is "How do we unlock the 'ROM' so that it can be modified being that it is an eeprom?"
Misterdollymaker

you need backup the ROM to *.nb1 or *.nbf file, than using tools to add/delete file to *.nb1 , write the new file back to XDA ROM. it is fun to add/delete file to your personized ROM!

cgigate said:
you need backup the ROM to *.nb1 or *.nbf file, than using tools to add/delete file to *.nb1 , write the new file back to XDA ROM. it is fun to add/delete file to your personized ROM!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this is quite interesting...can you elaborate further?? I wish to learn more...

cgigate said:
you need backup the ROM to *.nb1 or *.nbf file, than using tools to add/delete file to *.nb1 , write the new file back to XDA ROM. it is fun to add/delete file to your personized ROM!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, please! I wish to learn more too! I am looking to remove the standard sounds and replace them with my own (using same names) as well as the boot image and desktop.

yea, no kiddin, i'd like to know how too!
im sure its not impossible, 'they' did it the first time arround.
why not hacking it? and since its all at no charge (no profit) are we realy breaking any patents?

I wanted to know if there is an easy :wink: way around, to put our own programs in the rom. xda-developers certainly can't put ezwap2.5, and the total commander appears to be older version, while new version is much better. There are some more freeware application I'd love to put in there

xda-developers already posted some tools to do job, such as MKROM ...

cgigate said:
you need backup the ROM to *.nb1 or *.nbf file, than using tools to add/delete file to *.nb1 , write the new file back to XDA ROM. it is fun to add/delete file to your personized ROM!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm interested too
How can i add/delete file from nb1 file?
Thanks
Fabio

I've used mkrom suite to do this (even for Smartphone2002). This are great tools.
Unfortunately it's not as easy as you might think. It's nearly impossible to build a ZERO-KNOWLEDGE ROM file explorer which can add or delete files "on the fly".
You will still have to look for valid gap's in the original rom where you can add a new XIP block.
All .exe and .dll files are "fixed up" that means they MUST run at THE fixed ROM position where they have been initially placed (execute in place). If you dump an exe or dll file you can't use it for other than disassembly to see how things work.
Removing files is a very hard task (they are splitted over the whole rom). And the resulting gap's are mostly not more than 10-16 kB. All you can do is to "hide" files (simply patch the directory entry).
So you see compression is not the real problem (see programers corner for a .bib file which can be used with romimage.exe - a Microsoft Tool to build XIP blocks, this tool supports compression)
John Smith

only the kernel actually runs in the virtual memory area mapped to rom,
all the other XIP stuff runs from a virtual memory area mapped somewhere
in the top of each processes memory space.
( look at the 'real=' values in the output of dumprom )
so for all the other modules it should be possible to move them around
in rom a bit, I think you only need to keep the pagealignment the same.

Hi,
The virtual memory address is also fixed in the module. (That's why I've to rebuild all the stuff I want to copy from other roms).
Since all relocation info is gone the module can't run from another memory position. So the only thing you can do is to move it in it's own XIP section...
John

WM5 ROMfiles dumps [files, modules and registry]

Hello.
History:
My Qtek9090 running WM5 has good CPU, fast graphics and very, very slow filesystem. I'm looking for something, may be for fatfsd.dll extracted from another PDA. And I cann't find it
There exists very handy utility WM5 Files Dumper [thanks buzz_lightyear ]
I think it is a good idea to upload dumps of all files from our PDA's. It would be a good source of information and source of code bricks to cook patches and updates.
Such a dump should contains all files and modules [extracted both from bootloader and OS] and full dump of registry. It should be as clean as possible - just after hard reset, before entering PIN, before adding any contacts and any patches.
Tommorow I will try to upload WM_5_03_02_WWE_built_1337_42_BlueAngel_by_mamaich.zip.
And again - thanks to our master hackers

I'm looking for something, may be for fatfsd.dll extracted from another PDA. And I cann't find it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And even if you'll find it - it would not work on your device. It is always XIP.
And it would not speedup your device - it has a slow ROM.

mamaich said:
/me said:
]I'm looking for something, may be for fatfsd.dll extracted from another PDA. And I cann't find it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And even if you'll find it - it would not work on your device. It is always XIP.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Probably you are right I'm a lame, but I afraid, that it is true.
But: as I understand: XIP means "eXecute In Place". Dll's as modules are executed from slow ROM [and there is no shadow RAM] [and there is no way to cache them]. Dll's as files are loaded into RAM, and then executed. Correct me, if its not true.
We have plenty of RAM, so [probably] it is possible to load a lot of dll's into RAM instead executing them from [slow] ROM.
Dlls created with "WM5 Files Dumper" - looks good. I would have to analyze them several times, I would have to ask master hackers is it true, but I would try to load them into RAM.
mamaich said:
/me said:
I'm looking for something, may be for fatfsd.dll extracted from another PDA. And I cann't find it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And it would not speedup your device - it has a slow ROM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, of course.
But SPB benchmark told me:
Reading files from \somewhere is 4 times slower then WM2003. It is a good value.
Write files into \somewhere is 6 times slower then WM2003. It is also a good value.
But:
Copy files [OS level] is two times faster than read them and write back. It is not good value.
Retrieve filenames from huge directory is 10-12 times slower, than WM2003. It is also not a good value [it should be comparable to reading files, ie. 4 time slower]
There are two ways:
1. there is something wrong within fatfsd.dll,
2. overhead of executing fatfsd in place is not acceptable,
3. my benchmarks are wrong [I have not enough time to benchmark filesystem without cache

/me said:
Tommorow I will try to upload WM_5_03_02_WWE_built_1337_42_BlueAngel_by_mamaich.zip.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is here: ftp://xda:[email protected]_WWE_built_1337_42_BlueAngel_by_mamaich.zip
If you think it is a good idea to share WM5 code bricks, upload your your clean dump into
ftp://xda:[email protected]/Uploads/RomFiles_dumps
UserName and Password is here: http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=BA_FTP_Site search for "xdaupload".

baniaczek said:
But: as I understand: XIP means "eXecute In Place". Dll's as modules are executed from slow ROM [and there is no shadow RAM] [and there is no way to cache them]. Dll's as files are loaded into RAM, and then executed. Correct me, if its not true.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are 3 types of DLLs used on WM5. First type - normal files, they are loaded into RAM, fixups are processed, etc. They are slow to load (due to fixup processing), but would execute from RAM. Second type - XIP, which are executed directly from ROM and would work slowly. In BA this set of files is executed directly from ROM:
Code:
device.exe
filesys.exe
nk.exe
busenum.dll
cecompr.dll
ceddk.dll
certmod.dll
coredll.dll
crypt32.dll
devmgr.dll
diskcache.dll
fatfsd.dll
fatutil.dll
fsdmgr.dll
fsreplxfilt.dll
hd.dll
imgfs.dll
msflash.dll
mspart.dll
osaxst0.dll
pm.dll
regenum.dll
relfsd.dll
It is much less than was in WM2003.
And WM5 added a new filesystem - IMGFS. It contains compressed modules split to sections, but they are fixed to specific addresses in RAM, they are decompressed to these constant areas and executed from RAM. They are similar to XIP as they also don't contain relocations, but would work fast. I don;t know the correct termin for this type of files.
To replace files in XIP section you'll need this tool - http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=33321
if you overwrite any of files I've wrote here by a CAB file or other method without modifying ROM - their old versions would be used instead because they are loaded much earlier than all filesystem drivers.

Thanks mamaich

Registry Question
thanks for the files baniaczek!
does anyone know which file or how the other OS registry entries (the ones not in the boot.hv) get created? There are so many more in a full registry.
thanks!
P.S. thanks mamaich for the great tools!

Re: Registry Question
OS imports *.RGU files on hard reset, and it also reads mxip_*_*.provxml files that also can setup registry items. On Universal and similar devices registry can be set by CAB files in extended ROM.
If you add a new RGU file to OS image it would not be processed. Maybe they should have DSM file with the same name, or be mentioned in [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\ObjectStore\RegistryUpdate] key or in packages.sof. I don't know. I always add keys to default.hv/user.hv or edit existing RGU files.

-------> Is POSSIBLE to put ADOBE and POWERPOINT in MEMORY CARD to increase space??

-------> Is POSSIBLE to put ADOBE and POWERPOINT in MEMORY CARD to increase space??
Is possible to cut Power Point (2,29 mb) and AdobePDFreader(1,91mb) from the main memory and put them into the memory card??
It would increse a lot main memory space...
Experts, let me know if it's possible....
And what about all the files called "HH_WEATHER...", I have an other program fot meteo forecasts, so I don't use the original one... Is it possible remove all these files?? (I think that they are all images, I only opened a few, and they were all forecast images...)
BYE BYE......

the things you mentioned is probably burned into rom - you won't be able to remove it.

ww2250 said:
the things you mentioned is probably burned into rom - you won't be able to remove it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I know..
But I lose the warranty if I install a cooked rom....
If my device in future won't work correctly (or don't work at all) I wouldn't be able to put the original rom back??

Alternative Solution
You could compress the two executables with UPX and use Resco Explorer to overwrite them in the ROM. That won't save you as much space as moving them to external memory, but by compressing the files, you will save a decent amount of space.

tyr0ne said:
You could compress the two executables with UPX and use Resco Explorer to overwrite them in the ROM. That won't save you as much space as moving them to external memory, but by compressing the files, you will save a decent amount of space.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually that will use MORE space. If the files are in ROM they arent using any of you Program RAM. If you overwrite the ROM files like this the new files will be in RAM!!!

flykthewiz said:
Actually that will use MORE space. If the files are in ROM they arent using any of you Program RAM. If you overwrite the ROM files like this the new files will be in RAM!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you sure about that??
Do you mean that, if I compress these files, when I replaced the originale ones with the newest, the pocket pc places them into the ram and not the rom??
How is possible it??
So I can do this operation or not?
I would be happy if only I had 2/3 mb more....

flykthewiz said:
Actually that will use MORE space. If the files are in ROM they arent using any of you Program RAM. If you overwrite the ROM files like this the new files will be in RAM!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Anyone know this inconveniet??

the only thing is with anything that you add to your ppc after initialization... it stores it to the ram, not the rom, you would have to actually cook a similar rom to your original rom to have the new stuff in there, and all you would have to do is get the official ruu for your device before you call back in, and you are good to go, thats what i do!

MrGalione973 said:
the only thing is with anything that you add to your ppc after initialization... it stores it to the ram, not the rom, you would have to actually cook a similar rom to your original rom to have the new stuff in there, and all you would have to do is get the official ruu for your device before you call back in, and you are good to go, thats what i do!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, perfect...
I think that in the future I'll try a cooked rom, I know that it increase the space, a lot!
The only thing that worried me is the following:
If I have to repair the device, I must put the original rom back, but if I can't do it (ex my device doesn't start correctly)?
I had a Nokia N73 brand with my operator Tim, I have unbrand it (knowing to lose the warranty), but some months ago I must bring it to a Nokia Center, to repair.
And they don't see nothing about the difference between the original Imei and the actual one (that are different because you must do that to update yur firmware)....

flykthewiz said:
Actually that will use MORE space. If the files are in ROM they arent using any of you Program RAM. If you overwrite the ROM files like this the new files will be in RAM!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So u mean it's possible to replace a ROM file in the windows dir with another?
If so, HOW... i want to replace smartdialing.dll in my htc elf with another one that's patched containing another language(greek) but it doesn't seem to work.
Any help on this one?

larryg4 said:
So u mean it's possible to replace a ROM file in the windows dir with another?
If so, HOW... i want to replace smartdialing.dll in my htc elf with another one that's patched containing another language(greek) but it doesn't seem to work.
Any help on this one?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He talks about replace the file with resco explorer....
I think that you only have to copy the new file and paste it into the windows directory with resco....

Isnt it possible just to copy the program files to memory card and change the registry settings for those apps to point to new location?

jem777 said:
Isnt it possible just to copy the program files to memory card and change the registry settings for those apps to point to new location?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would want know exactly this thing....
Anyone know??

jem777 said:
Isnt it possible just to copy the program files to memory card and change the registry settings for those apps to point to new location?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some programs are hardcoded with paths in "\windows" directory - by moving stuffs around, things may break. Many programs that are expected to be in ROM fall in this class.
But then even if you are successful in "copying" it elsewhere, you won't be able to delete what's already in ROM. Overwriting it is just an masking action. ROM is ROM - follow me, Read Only Memory. Thus no memory is saved whatsoever.
Unless you flash it somehow.

ww2250 said:
Some programs are hardcoded with paths in "\windows" directory - by moving stuffs around, things may break. Many programs that are expected to be in ROM fall in this class.
But then even if you are successful in "copying" it elsewhere, you won't be able to delete what's already in ROM. Overwriting it is just an masking action. ROM is ROM - follow me, Read Only Memory. Thus no memory is saved whatsoever.
Unless you flash it somehow.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, I understand the problem..
Tell me only the last thing....
If I copy the files to the memory card and then I create some shortcuts to these files, and replace them into the windows folder, do you think that they'll work or not??
When the pocket pc try to use them, It'll find the shortcut(and not the program itself) but this will direct the pocket pc to the program itself....
Would it work??

If I copy the files to the memory card and then I create some shortcuts to these files, and replace them into the windows folder, do you think that they'll work or not??

flaviopac said:
If I copy the files to the memory card and then I create some shortcuts to these files, and replace them into the windows folder, do you think that they'll work or not??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Noone know if it would run??

re-read my earller post. the answer is there already. if you find it difficult to understand, why don't you try it out yourself? it's incredibly simple.

Disable the Cube in Touch Cruise

1. Unzip the Disable Cube.zip and copy the folder Disable Cube in storage card.
2. With resco explorer copy the four exe files from the folder Empty Files in windows folder.
3. With a registry editor in HKLM\Software\OEM\TFLOSettings change EnableCube from 1 in 0 and make a soft reset.
The cube will not function anymore and you will have an extra 6,5 mb memory program memory available.
Attention: After you replace the original files, programs like SKTools and MemMaid may show the files "useless" and prompt you to delete them. DO NOT delete those files. If you do delete them by mistake then just restore the files as described in step 2.
In the Real files folder you can find the original files in order to come back whenever you want. Just copy in windows folder and change again the value in registry.

cannot overwrite, it said all files is read-only.......

Τry with resco explorer.

Finally I got rid of this useless cube, and I have more 7MB to RAM.
Nice finding man, Thanks!

panosha said:
Τry with resco explorer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i'm using resco file explorer, it said "File storage space is full or read only."
and also i can't change those file to not read-only at the properties.

abit said:
...i can't change those file to not read-only at the properties.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do not do this, you should only make what I describe in first post.

panosha said:
Do not do this, you should only make what I describe in first post.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes, i did it now, sorry about confuse your description, many thx!!

re-enabling is just following the opposite?

Yes my friend.

Wow worked like a charm, THAnk U Very Very much
6.8 MB free and get rid og the Cube

Weird. On my Touch, with a custom ROM I built that hasn't biotouch.exe and other cube resources, that means I would have 7MB more free RAM compared to a ROM on which it's present and active. Yet it's (definitely!) not the case.
Believe me I wish it would be the case

zeflash said:
Weird. On my Touch, with a custom ROM I built that hasn't biotouch.exe and other cube resources, that means I would have 7MB more free RAM compared to a ROM on which it's present and active. Yet it's (definitely!) not the case.
Believe me I wish it would be the case
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did win about 2-3 MB on the normal low-memory Elf.
Thanks for this solution !

Tanx, works like a charm!!

Nice and it works, but a big Problem (HTC touch cruise, WM 6.0):
When i make a sidescroll in emails or sms i get an error message, something like "couldn`t open biotouch.exe". Any solution ?

With a registry editor in HKLM\Software\OEM\TFLOSettings change EnableCube from 1 in 0 and make a soft reset.
Did you have made this?

bluemetalaxe said:
Nice and it works, but a big Problem (HTC touch cruise, WM 6.0):
When i make a sidescroll in emails or sms i get an error message, something like "couldn`t open biotouch.exe". Any solution ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Copy real biotouch.exe back to \Windows

Buck71 said:
Copy real biotouch.exe back to \Windows
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
.................Why ?

i know you guys said this will give you more access to ram, but does removing the cube speed up the device at all (noticeably?)
i wish HTC would have just had an option to disable it in the system settings.
oh well.
Maybe someone will make a software that can do this automatically for us?

To complete and correct this error try this:
With a registry editor in HKLM\Software\OEM\TFLOSettings change EnableScroll from 1 in 0 and make a soft reset

There is a similar metod to disable HTC Home?

Gain more space in ROM.

Today I just tried this, I compressed my softwares which I have cooked in my ROM using UPX4PPC and cooked them in the ROM. As I have a small 32MB ROM (Himalaya), if this is possible to do with the default OS dll & exe files, it would be very useful. As I noticed, there is no big difference in the loading time of compressed files & the original. I searched the forum, but found nothing on compression of system OS files. Is there anyone who have done this before? Is this ok to do with .net CF dll & other large dll & exe files in ROM...?

shiranmotha said:
Today I just tried this, I compressed my softwares which I have cooked in my ROM using UPX4PPC and cooked them in the ROM. As I have a small 32MB ROM (Himalaya), if this is possible to do with the default OS dll & exe files, it would be very useful. As I noticed, there is no big difference in the loading time of compressed files & the original. I searched the forum, but found nothing on compression of system OS files. Is there anyone who have done this before? Is this ok to do with .net CF dll & other large dll & exe files in ROM...?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so you're compressing before cooking? interesting. all's working ok?

fredcatsmommy said:
so you're compressing before cooking? interesting. all's working ok?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
EXE files can be compressed successfully. But when I compress all the dll files, ROM is not starting. Compression of some dll files works fine. So I wanna find which files can be compressed and which are not.

shiranmotha said:
EXE files can be compressed successfully. But when I compress all the dll files, ROM is not starting. Compression of some dll files works fine. So I wanna find which files can be compressed and which are not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does it go for SYS and OEM?
Interesting finding!!!
I'll be tunned
Regards,
Jaime.

Tapped "Save Changes" twice.

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=397792
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=265175
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=335982
http://forum.xda-developers.com/archive/index.php/t-276884.html
..and so on..
maybe it's time to READ, not write?
few words about fighting for every goddamn kilobyte..
some exes or dlls cannot be upx-ed, NOTHING from rom/xip cannot be upx-ed,
do not try to upx .netcf soft, or its oempackage dlls, some dlls from mms oempack may lose its functions; isilo and some offROM soft will break, DO NOT upx today plugins(2 be sure), TCPMP plugins CAN be upxed, CPL-s usually CAN be upxed,
some upxed dlls may have ADVERSE effect on memory( i mean clean boot mem and so on), especially dll's that are launched after boot(..erm, resident, crucial ones).
whole art is to get thin line between making XIPmodules and upxed files....RAM-ROM loss, i mean.
and stability.
if you need more romspace, you will need do more, than simple upxpackclick, trust me...
look at size of tahoma and courier .ttf from DIFFERENT kitchens(old/new).
gain.
look at things that you will not use - cut it.
gain.
do not use stupid, trendy soft, until you MUST.
gain.
erase stupid html help files, not crucial temptates, etc
gain.
edit welcomehead.96.png(it may have 160 kb, or 2 kb...)
delete services and things that you do not need: i.e.sqm service(well..not delete = dummy), maybe wlive etc...delete mms oempack, if you do not need it - you CAN install it later..remove ppt.exe, its dlls and mui etc..
gain.
you need 2 mb skin instead of thinking/editing?
loss.
you want to have 1936237569423 home clones at once?
loss.
you do upx 23194673459826032194 - dlls exes AT once and flash...
loss(of time).
no hklm/init editing?
loss.
no reshacking(i.e. dialer skins, some keyboards, soft gfx etc)?
loss.
no unused dll's deleting?
loss.
you are not able to reedit soft gfx to optimize its size...
LOSS.
etc etc..
for going to extreme it is possible to cut XIP(but leaving crucial sys contents instead), but it is rather...risky.
i do not know more bout it..
i loaded >26-28 mb of useful soft/dlls/cpls/plugins/fonts into my rom, btw(wizard). 6.1.
84 apps, or so..
but ignore me...just short outburst..it is so hard to find something interesting there lately...
btw, usually it is safe to upx camera.exe.
worth it, imo.
safe files to be upxed, imo:
ppt.exe
word.exe
pxl.exe
and many more, of course.
there is no big difference in the loading time of compressed files & the original.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
romfiles, maybe, but 9 mb file vs 2 mb file from sd card...you know..
OT:
btw, remember: RGU files MUST be saved as UNICODE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(that is very easy method to see first/second splash ONLY, nothin more..)
easy 2 forget.

well i use UPX for about 2 years in roms but I never sompress anything major in SYS folder except the Office pack, never upx .net (or it wil not work) some programs like solitaire and bubble breaker and calculator (spb one) can be compressed

2 years in roms but I never sompress anything major in SYS folder except the Office pack
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well, you prolly did not need more space...for these 2 yrs.
EOT,sry.
good luck.

Bear in mind that rom's which have been upx'd take up MORE memory to run than non upx'd ones because some of the memory is not released. This has been hashed back and forth in detail in the previous threads but compressing everything in site is NOT the answer.

that rom's which have been upx'd take up MORE memory to run than non upx'd ones because some of the memory is not released.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
agree...
idd, some - it may be not a problem, if it is not thing, that works ALL the time(crucial system dll, etc).
if it is..its useless to even try. loss may be quite..big, sometimes...