Database Users

answering machine software???

hi guys, i couldnt help noticing that when i previously used nokia 6600 (symbian s60) they had few 3rd party that is able to make use of their audio mechanism during callls. for example, one software can make selected background noise for opposite callers so they think that u are at a train station for example when infact u r silently at home. another software is an on board answering machine, which after the phone rang for a few times it answer the fonecall with your automated recorded voice and recorded a msg left by the caller on the fone. this is convenient for us so we dont need to call back our voicemail and reduce cost as well as some telco charge to use their voicemail service. im surprised these kind of software have not came out for our windows mobile device when its already available for symbian. im sure it shouldnt be that hard to make it. any coder expert wanna give it a go??

cutefox, what kind of searches have you made for this software on this board? Did you have much luck?
V

i already tried commercial such as handango and pocket gear.. even freeware sites also no luck.. jus dun understand why no 1 made one yet.. shouldnt b too hard to make one.. it will be a big market to sell such a software for our ppc phone device now that more devices is coming out..

Cutefox: have you tried searching this board? Let me save you the effort, but it'll be a good idea next time. It's not generally considered possible, at least on WM2003 devices because of both hardware and software limitations. It's not that no one has thought of it before: someone seems to think of it approximately every two days... but there are many many threads on this issue.
V

Look at what I said here...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=9761
That sums up why we can't do it using the api's available to us now. The funny thing is the way bluetooth sends the audio stream to a headset. Obviously the data is getting there somehow but I suspect it is not (directly) via windows. Dose anyone know if the radio hardware for bluetooth is connected to the radio hardware for the phone? My guess is that if you could write a program that windows "sees" as a headset then you could get the audio that way. But thats a problem in itself.
I would love this kind of program myself. How is it that such usefull devices with so many capeabilities can be kept secret from us. We can't use the camera, we can't get the cell id on towers, we can't programatically controll the partnerships in blutooth, we cant get the audio stream of our own phone, the events on some ppc's that control brightness are secret..... the list goes on. This kind of #@!!$$ is going to hurt the future of these devices which I otherwise love.

OdeeanRDeathshead: I had read your previous posts, and as ever, very interesting and informative reading. I had the same idea regarding a "dummy" bluetooth device a while back, but mamaich put me in my place!
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?p=179839#179839
V

thanks vijay555, thats what I have suspected about the hardware. What I want to do is a bit different. The bluetooth can communicate to many devices at once. If your program could appear to be a headset to the os, then the phone bluetooth hardware could transmit the audio to the headset at the same time your program uses bluetooth to receive it. Kind of like a loop out of the box to bridge the lack of functionality. This shifts the problem to how dose a hardware bluetooth headset communicate. Emulate this and we are on a winner. I don't think I have the willingness to pull my devices appart. I also do not have the money for some of the hardware (eg good digital oscilliscope) that I would need to measure whats going on. I did read that microsoft are about to expose some new api to allow control over the pairing process (but not the audio stream). I hope that we get some soon.
Is there going to be any new (for 2005) free development tools like the evc versions used today?

OdeeanRDeathshead: re eVC, I don't think so. The "express editions" are free, but they specifically omit the functionality to develop "mobile solutions".
Re the loop back. That's a good idea. I think mamaich is our best bet on schematics, I think that would be very helpful. As you "rave", it's mindboggling that Microsoft still haven't revealed or implemented a way to interact with the audio channels. It must have been one of the first things one could imagine doing once you develop a PDA with a phone stuck on the back of it.
Any idea if the bluetooth stacks could support transmitting and receiving simultaneously in this manner? I know some of the boys are working on alternative bluetooth support for the stereo headset profiles, so they might be able to shed some light on the issues involved. I guess the processor overhead could be hefty, but for the benefit it would be beneficial.
V

answering machine (without recording, I have read others)

Well from reading other threads I learned that an answering machine software is not possible due to lacking ability to record from the radio audio output (on most phones, possible on univ?).
Well then how about not recording, but automatic pickup and sending prerecorded audio? Would that be possible? Like in: someone calls my phone->software picks up and plays back prerecorded message to caller "I'm in a meeting, please call back at 5pm" ->software hangs up.
Possible or not? Who would be willing to write something like this?

I think there's the same issue - the phone audio path is seperated from the PDA audio path. Read Odeean's posts on TAPI and his frustrations. However, the http://teksoftco.com boys seem to have hinted that this may in fact be possible anyway.
It may be possible I suppose, by writing specific drivers, but I don't think any of us have ever tried I guess.
V

We'll keep you updated with what can be done altough the system is not built to support this kind of features. Firstly because in the US recording audio on phone conversation is ilegal so MSFT doesn't supports this and onestly i don't see HTC being able to offer this kind of support.
Also what Vijay outlined is correct... but we have a few more ideas that we are curently testing...as i said we'll post it if we succeded.
Cheers,
Raul

i believe that it is not a hardware limitation.
The sound from the gsm is not analogue. It passes through the OS somehow, otherwise how is the audio transmitted to the bt hfree?
I don't believe that the transmition of audio (from gsm) to the bt hfree is done only by hardware.
Please comment

andrew_sh is making a good point there. Maybe something can be done by "faking" bluetooth data input?

We have a working answering machine on Himalaya.
See last ROM from TofClock...

Good point made by Andrew. A new bluetooth headset driver or a fake one might do the trick. Cross your fingers guys.
The OS has evolved since Himalaya and HTC has restricted access to drivers by creating a locking mechanism and also the signing process is a hop to pass.

Guys, from my understanding and a poll I've run:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=40100&highlight=telephone+poll
it doesn't seem like many people have succeeded in recording calls, and those that have are generally using the Himalaya only. The gigabyte can, but it has custom hardware.
We've discussed spoofing the bluetooth audio path before by using a dummy driver and receiver, but mamaich has stated that the audio path for the bluetooth is in hardware only, and seperated from the interceptable paths in the OS.
Rain (for those who don't know, is one of the genii at http://teksoftco.com) - if you have any new ideas, may I ask you to PM me?
Odeean, Mamaich and I have had numerous discussions about this and I'd be interested to know how your research is going. I read that you guys have experience at low level audio driver work (great work on the speakerphone btw!), and I think that might be a good way to go. There is certainly some OS control of the audio path (speakerphone, mute, headset<>bluetooth etc), so I've thought about this way...
V

Real time voice morph tool

Does anyone knows if there is a tool to deform e.g. morph your voice in real time for ppc?
Thanx in advance

I dont know about any, but I used one on Symbian OS, but it was really long ago, so I dont remember name. Try look here.

Suppose this all comes down to the old chestnut of whether the phoneline stream is accessible programatically. I have asked about this before and the general consensus seems to be no access because of a hardware limitation imposed by MS.
I'm not convinced by this response. How do bluetooth headsets operate if this is the case?
I've got nowhere near enough c++ expertise to work it out, but surely someone on here must? This could lead to all kinds of useful and fun apps. Anyone fancy a challenge??!

First post lurking for a bit here now.
This app sounds like a blast. Please repost if you find it!
fugi

Maybe it's Surprise! Sounder. But doesn't run in real time. It applies effects to recorded voices.

Searching in the past for a Voice Recorder ( very basic feature I would say :-( ) I understood that there is no way to process the voice stream in real time due to h/w limitations.

does anyone who worked on the widcomm bt stack know how the audio stream gets passed to a bluetooth headset? can it be intercepted? i'm prepared to investigate this further but don't know where to start

On my A1200 I could record calls with no problems. I understand that its Linux, but I think the hardware in this phone is more impressive than that one... what I'm trying to say, is I doubt it is a hardware limitation.

T-Pain auto tone voice changer app on Iphone could be better on Winmo!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDGJY2LgwWI

Maybe hardware solution.
http://www.spyville.com/cell-phone-voice-changer.html

Spoof app and Winmo get marrief
http://m.facebook.com/spoofapp?w2m

Bluetooth vulnerability.....Be careful!!

Guys/Gals....
I might be slow to know about this, so I figured some others here might be too. No disrespect intended, but I watched a program this weekend 'The Real Hustle' on British TV. It explored a serious vulnerability in the Bluetooth technology.
Apparently there exists software which can be installed on O/S based Mobile phones/PPC's that allow its user to scan for BT devices i.e. in busy areas like train stations etc.
They can then hijack your phone..'Without Your Knowledge'!! They can then use your available credit/contract minutes, to make calls to a purpose made premium number @ £1.50 per minute....all without leaving a trace on your phone!
You won't know until you get your whopping bill and will have no way out of paying for it, as calls will have registered as having been made from your phone!
Bottom line for Athena users with BT earpieces and other people too. ONLY switch your BT on when you are going to use it and be sure to switch it right back off when you're finished.
The program did not reveal whether this was possible if the devices/BT mode was set to invisible, but that is something I intend to find out.
Scary eh?
P.S. Something like this happened to a relative of mine only last week as his BT is always on (for phone calls). Just thought I'd share my concerns with you. Sorry if its old news already.

Yup, old news I'm afriad. The Ameo AFAIK and can test, seems to have a fairly sturdy bluetooth stack, as do most phones from the last 18months - 2years. But it is quite surprising how many phones are vulnerable to various bluetooth exploits. I have found that its not impossible to crash the BT stack, but its not trivial, and doesn't really seem to do too much damage, apart from requiring a restart of the BT module. Unlike my old T68 which locks up tighter than a locked up tight thing, gives out my contacts and calendar, make calls e.t.c.
Oh, and I generally leave the BT off on the Ameo because its such a battery drain.

Digital.Diablo said:
Yup, old news I'm afriad. The Ameo AFAIK and can test, seems to have a fairly sturdy bluetooth stack, as do most phones from the last 18months - 2years. But it is quite surprising how many phones are vulnerable to various bluetooth exploits. I have found that its not impossible to crash the BT stack, but its not trivial, and doesn't really seem to do too much damage, apart from requiring a restart of the BT module. Unlike my old T68 which locks up tighter than a locked up tight thing, gives out my contacts and calendar, make calls e.t.c.
Oh, and I generally leave the BT off on the Ameo because its such a battery drain.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for that Diablo. So what you are saying is that newer devices (like our) with newer BT stacks are NOT vulnerable to these attacks? Only the older types of mobile phones?

Is the hidden option didn't make any difference?

I have tested a couple of "available" software.
Generally it is quite trivial to establish a connection with older mobiles phones. SonyEricssons seem to be particularly vulnerable.
I haven't been able to successfully intercept the Athena though. Although I have many shortcomings in my very limited abilities... I'm sure a dedicated person would be able to intercept and <do whatever> given enough time.
Normally it should be enough to enable "Beam authentication" and uncheck "Make this device visible to other devices".

mackaby007 said:
Thanks for that Diablo. So what you are saying is that newer devices (like our) with newer BT stacks are NOT vulnerable to these attacks? Only the older types of mobile phones?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldn't go as far as to say they're invulnerable, however they're stronger than other targets. Bluetooth in itself is quite basic in its security mechanisms, but Ameo stands up well to attack. As mentioned, its possible to crash the stack, but this doesn't bring any benefit to the attacker, apart from the knowledge that they've been able to do that. I suppose it could be used as a buffer overflow exploit, but with so few devices around, its probably not worth the effort to try.
One thing TO be aware of though is that when pairing a device, its possible for a 3rd party to grab the keys off the air, and then you can impersonate a bluetooth device. So if someone were to capture a key pairing between a mobile and a laptop for the laptop to be able to make internet connections via the phone, then you could impersonate the laptop to make these calls. But this is fairly unlikely if the phones are already paired. However, the cool thing is, if you've got a vulnerable phone, you can make it loose the pair key, when Mr End User resync's the phone, snap it out of the air and do naughty things. I work in Network Security so I try and experiment with these things for the good of our staff, and bluetooth hacking is one of the cooler things IMO.
Oh, another cool point is that people think bluetooth is 10m or 100m radius. Some researchers have managed to send a bluetooth message about 3km (I think).
And finally, the other thing you can do to really bug someone is repeatedly make bluetooth requests to their phone for 'services available'. Most phones will provide this without pairing, and in doing so, it can generally cause the power consumption to increase. Once again, I killed my T68 with this technique in about 2hrs from full charge, as each time it made the request, the screen redrew, the backlight and key led's came on and I suspect the radio power draw increased.

WM5 and espicially 6 are practically safe

Done a bit of research on this now and coupled with your feedback guys, I feel Athena owners are pretty safe from random attacks. Thanks a bunch for putting my mind at ease...I will however remain cautious in public areas and turn my bluetooth off if I am spending a considerable amount of time there.

The fact is that the only way this vulnerability works is by exploiting the Symbian Bluetooth stack for now. Conversely, WM is one of the more secure O/S's out there at present. WM6 is even more so. There's a lot of snakeoil within the industry, although with the Ameo, I would look into getting AV if you plan on doing a lot of downloading off the web. Yes, there is no serious malware for the WM platform, but the device can still be a carrier for the host Windows systems. As HSDPA becomes more widespread, the benefits fo attacking these platforms becomes greater; it's not there yet but will become an issue.

mackaby007 said:
Done a bit of research on this now and coupled with your feedback guys, I feel Athena owners are pretty safe from random attacks. Thanks a bunch for putting my mind at ease...I will however remain cautious in public areas and turn my bluetooth off if I am spending a considerable amount of time there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It should* be enough to disable visibility. If need BT for your headset but care about battery drain just enable powersafe mode for the audio gateway in the registry.
I'm running bluetooth all the time on my ameo. I'm around a lot on public areas like train stations and airports and every now and then I'm using btCrawler to scan for other devices just to see how many are in visibile mode.
So the best practicefor using bluetooth (on laptops, handhelds or whatever) is:
- Turn off visibility
- Use encryption AND authentication for every connection
- Don't accept messages or transfers from unknown devices
- Don't use easy PINs like 0000 or 1234
- Use different PINs for every connection
If you follow the above, using bluetooth should* be safe
* Should, because if an attacker knows your device address, he's still able to try to attack you directly. There is an interesting article by Max Moser about using the expensive (but excellent) Bluetooth Diagnostic Tool from Fronline (FTS4BT) with a normal inexpensive bluetooth dongle. Using this you are able to sniff bluetooth connections by following the hopping sequence. You can sniff audio connections, data transfers, etc. If no encryption is enabled everthing is tranfered in plaintext. However it is still possible to decrypt encrypted BT traffic if you are able to sniff the pairing process. If you have successfully sniffed the whole pairing process you can extract the link key and PIN with btcrack and then use the frontline sniffer to decrypt the traffic.

Reqiuem for VoIP in WM6

Hi,
I decided to post this after 100+ hrs of struggling with so called native VoIP feature in WM6.
Firstly, there are some extremely valuable threads in this forum already, the best of which being probably:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=299950
Secondly and lastly: the marketing trick about "Built-in VoIP in WM6" is nothing more than that (google the Web and you'll see what kind of proud statements can be found).
Someone out there in MS completely disrespect the customers saying all this. A more truthfull statement could look like: "Integration of VoIP features in Windows Mobile has been attempted for the first time (ever). However, so far it is all unreleased, alpha-stage development which may come to a business-grade usable outcome somewhere late 2008".
Reasons for that are very simple:
Even WHEN someone by any chance, luck or more by black crafts manages to make a test call with this integrated VoIP-crap (which is neither too easy nor really reproducible - I made it - 3 times in more than 200 attempts with various configs and DLLs and reg settings), the results leave A LOT to wish.
Available "features" cover - at most - usage of G711 codec (some users cracked the GSM one as well, with mixed results). No voicemail. No conference call. No call forwarding. No STUN (!!! - and I thought Symbian S60 was behind WM6). Not even a user-friendly interface to configure a SIP-provider (a user-unfriendly interface does not exist either, to be precise). Only one provider can be configured. Documentation incomplete and inaccurate if any (MSDN contains some - buggy like hell). Right, no debugging anyway. No logging. Have I missed something? Oh yes, without a headset the sound is wonderfully coming out of the external speaker. Power saving mode cutting the talks due to power outage at the WiFi. So much for integration.
If anyone disagrees just please take a look at SJPhone. Just ONE single look. Honestly, if it was possible to put SJPhone in the Today list (maybe it is but I have not figured it out yet how) I would NEVER bother with the "marvels" of integrated voip.
For me personally, the subject of the "integrated", MS-made VoIP is burried - requiescat in pace. At least until a more reasonable version (at least beta-grade) is available.
Regards
wiktro

Yes I do agree that more can be done to it but at the moment, I am pretty happy with what is available.
Sure the call quality can be much improved with the addition of several codecs but at the moment, it is something that is not bothering me and the call quality, while not great, is something usable.
I am currently using VoIP with an Eten Glofiish X500 which allows me to make calls as a normal phone, thanks to a switch. The audio comes out of the ear piece instead of the loudspeaker. I am using VoipStunt as my service provider and the quality is not too bad. Sure it is not as good as the desktop but then again, a Pocket PC does not have the crunching power of a desktop.
Am I saying that it is sufficient? For my own needs, yes. But I would sure love to see it further improved. I am not saying that just because we have a less powerful device that there is no hope for VoIP because there are even less powerful ones out there that can do an even better job.
Let's just hope Microsoft improves on this. Or that SjLabs can come up with a much needed updated version of their software that integrates with the Today screen.