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Different TFT-panel in S100 and S110

I just recently upgraded from Qtek S100 to the S110, got the phones from Brightpoint in Sweden, and now i have the opportunity to compare the two devices. First thing i noticed was the differences in the display that no one seem to mention anywhere in forums. The S100 panel is somewhat easier to view in direct sunlight, more reflective. On the other hand, the S110 display is somewhat crisper in the matrix, it's like looking at a display with slightly smaller dot pitch. This is very clear when using a screen protetcor such as the ClearTouch. It doesn't "spread" the pixels as much producing the typical "sparkling effect" seen when using protector. I am still a bit undecided as to which one i like the most, at first i was a tad disappointed by the S110 -- that is by the display only of course!! ;-)
Anyone else had this experience on the two?

I compared my friends MDAc and my new S110 and honestly I cant see that diff you're talking about. To me the two LCDs look identical. I'm positively shocked by the speed diff caused by the extra 64MB of RAM, in some apps this make a hell of a diff.

That's strange, i suppose HTC have been using two different panels but not just on the S110, apparently, but also on the MDA's or perhaps it's just batch-specific based upon serial numbers.
Anyway, for those who might be interested, here's some more details on the two different LCD versions i've tested so far on the Magician:
1) Earlier model (?) seen on my S100
In this version of the LCD, brightness of the screen gets darker when tilting the device upwards, i.e. looking from below the device towards the LCD, and it gets brighter when looking from above. Sideways tilting the device makes the screen fade a bit. In the outdoors, this display is bright and reflective, you can read it without backlight indoors, and in direct sunlight and wearing sunglasses, the display remains quite rich in contrast and brightness.
2) The model i have in my S110
This screen has the opposite properties when tilting vertically. Looking from below the device makes the screen look brighter, less contrast. Looking from above the device makes the screen look darker, more contrast. From a right angle the screen appears to have slightly less contrast but more vivid colours, especially red tone more brilliant. Sideways the screen has a slight, very slight yellow tint, also when viewing from below. This screen is slightly less sensitive to viewing angles and it's most evident when watching movies in landscape mode, more comfortable view. In direct sunlight the screen is very dark, less reflective. Indoors it is nearly impossible to view the screen without backlight in a low-lit room. The screen image looks weird when looking through polaroid sunglasses. Slightly less visible in the car, though not a big problem. This screen looks good with a screen-protector, less internal reflection as seen on the S100 i have (screen-protector causes the display to "shimmer" a bit)
This is just my subjective opinion of course. The S110 is really awesome, i love the extra punch in speed and the ability to install all the software you want without counting bits and bytes, i upgraded because i considered staying with this model for a while. I am still a bit puzzled about the screen, starting to get used to it now. The difference is that remarkable i had to change the today-theme i had made for my S100 because it looked VERY dull on the S110!

this is absolutely true - mda compact and xda mini (both are the so called magican series) have different screens, the screen is made by different companies. you can see the difference easily especially in sunlight. i can really tell since i have both devices and can use them with identical today screen - the xda mini screen is so mutch brighter and more sharpen and also very much better to read in straight sunlight.
cheers, lutz

Sorry to say that but that a load of bull****. Any magician uses QVGA res on the exact same size so the pixel pitch is exactly the same. Why should one look "sharper" than the other. The only way this would be possible is by moving the pixels closer together (smaller pith) or using higher res. And neither is the case with any magician. It may be slightly different with sunlight use when there really are two diff LCDs but one CANNOT be sharper than the other. Its simply not possible.

nobody said anything about resolution or anything. but you must admit that e.g. a different material on the back of the screen or another way of lightening the screen may result in different sharpness. and thats the case.
cheers, lutz

Can something look sharper that actually isnt???

yes

I know, with a lot of liquor some women tend to look sharper than they really are.
Honestly, I admit that there may be a difference in performance/looks when exposed to sunlight etc but since every screen on the magician uses the exact same pixel pitch and res and size I doubt that there is really a diff to be seen other than what some people wish they can see. Otherwise you could make an LCD sharper by altering its surface. I mean you can make it blurry when pouring vaseline over the screen but make it sharper - I doubt that.

Did you ever see different LCD monitors in a row in some market? And you still say that there can't be a difference in picture quality between two monitors of the same size and resolution? Well, if you say yes, then you should have a closer look next time! Even the whole display technology varies from display to display.
PDA displays are reflektive and there are definately differences in the quality. My guess is that they built in improved panels somewhere within the production process so that newer devices (also new S100) have the better displays than the older ones.

Well with big LCDs its a big difference. They can use a lot of panel technologies (TN, MVA, IPS etc.), different anti-refectice coatings, different resolution and pixel pitch and so forth. The variation with small PDA LCDs are way more restricted.
We seem to have a misunderstanding anyway. I don't doubt that one magician could look different from another if the LCD has another coating or different backlight etc. BUT they cant be sharper since they use the same resolution and pixel pitch so that is not possible from a technological point of view. You may find one look different (maybe better) but that is a very subjective view. Besides all magicians (no matter if they are sold by O2 or Vodafone or Qtek or ...) are made by HTC, why should they use different LCD models in the exact same production line???

Ok, now I get your point. It's how you define what you mean with sharper. Sure, the resolutions stays the same, so the sharpness with regards to the resolution isn't better.
What about this guess: They asked their LCD supplier (or chose a different one) to supply them with LCDs with better reflektive behavior because the Magician isn't great under direct sunlight. So the newer panels have a stronger reflektion. I also suppose that these reflektions on the background cause the pixel to spread their light also more to the side (sorry for saying it that way, it's just a guess and I'm no pro). This would cause a pixel also to light some of its neighbours and this would cause a less sharp picture.
Just a guess.

TyTn tft screen not transflective, should it be??

Hello
I have wondered that tytn tft screen should be in specs transflective but at least my tytn screen is not, becouse i cannot see anything on sunny day. Should it be transflective or not?
B.R
Seppo Somppi

It is transflective. You just have to get the sun angle right to see it. Angle the screen so that if your hermes was a mirror then the sun would be reflected right into your eyes.

If i compare the screen to nokia E61i screen, that is tranflective but my tytn screen is not, do i have some different model or can you see something in bright sun light?

I cant see mine on a sunny day either...

Sleuth255 said:
It is transflective. You just have to get the sun angle right to see it. Angle the screen so that if your hermes was a mirror then the sun would be reflected right into your eyes.
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I tried that. Now I can't see anything! At all! (Cause I was blinded, see?)

Yeah the screen is pretty sucky in sunlight. My Universal was so much better. The colours washed out a little, but everything was perfectly clear. The backlight was not needed at all.

yeah the screen isn't so great during the sunlight.. thank goodness I'm inside most of the time..
oh well, the days are getting shorter here in Tokyo, so the transflective screen won't be needed

I heard about this as well.. it is quite weird that still there are screen these days that are non-transflective. Not that it is very useful to me, but it does save me couple of times. In my Wizard (i.e. not TyTn) when some of the programs that I've installed, causes the backlight to drop to 0, and if it weren't the transflective screen, it would be very very difficult to get it back.

Some Questions for Those Who Have the P6500...

I am very close to purchasing a P6500 but I have some reservations... Please provide your thoughts on the following:
1. How durable is the display (i.e. does it need a screen protector and how does this look over the already-present anti-glare surface)?
2. I have heard the display is poor (whatever that means). I care more about daylight readability and, hopefully, a very dim nighttime setting than I do about color fidelity. It is more important for me to be able to see the display in sunlight and not be be blinded by it in the dark than how movies look on it. Any thoughts?
3. I have heard the external speaker audio quality is very poor. Is this true? I'm only worried about phone calls here, not music or video. Is it loud and legible enough?
4. Some sources refer to the device as "semi-ruggedized." Does the documentation mention this and if so, what are the environmental limits (water intrusion, shock, etc.) Not vitally important to me as I care well for my devices; just couious...
Any other thoughts on the device are greatly appreciated. I do not care about the smallest, lightest, or most fashionable device nor do I aspire to have an HDTV monitor in my pocket. I simply want a big screen PDA phone with all the specs this one has as long as there are no deal-breakers lurking inside.
Thanks in advance for the replies.

re. P6500 questions
I've been happy with the P6500, but the display is definitely the most disappointing thing. The brightness seems fine -- you can make it bright enough to be readable in sunlight and dim enough to not be blinding in dark. It's not great in bright sun, but I don't think I've ever used a PDA that was. The lousy thing about the screen is its low resolution and washed-out looking colors. Whenever I pull out my old Axim x51v (with its gorgeous VGA screen), the comparison with the P6500 makes me a little sad.
Hard for me to answer the questions about durability you ask, since I'm very careful with my phone and try _not_ to test its durability! The P6500 feels sturdy to me, and the shell feels solid. I always keep it in a case and use it with a screen protector. (I use the BoxWave Clear Touch anti-glare, and the P6500 looks fine through it, maybe even better than without it?) I don't think the P6500 was designed to withstand serious impacts or water. It feels sturdy and solid, but I don't see anything in the manual about it being intended to handle that sort of punishment.
The speaker quality hasn't bothered me. It's a little tinny sounding, but it's plenty loud and seems fine for phone calls, though I tend to use a headset whenever possible. I've even occasionally played music out of the speaker-- it doesn't sound great, but not really worse than I've heard music sound out of other PDA speakers.
So -- I'm happy with the phone. I sometimes wish for something as glamorous and sexy as the Touch Diamond, but wouldn't give up the quad-band GSM or the enormous memory capacity that the double SD card slots afford.
Alan

very concise and perfect mini review of the p6500
bR

Jumping on a not so current thread by have read a review of the O2 branded version (Xda Mantle) here if any of that information helps:
http://www.airtimemanager.co.uk/news/?p=201

toyfreak said:
I am very close to purchasing a P6500 but I have some reservations... Please provide your thoughts on the following:
1. How durable is the display (i.e. does it need a screen protector and how does this look over the already-present anti-glare surface)?
2. I have heard the display is poor (whatever that means). I care more about daylight readability and, hopefully, a very dim nighttime setting than I do about color fidelity. It is more important for me to be able to see the display in sunlight and not be be blinded by it in the dark than how movies look on it. Any thoughts?
3. I have heard the external speaker audio quality is very poor. Is this true? I'm only worried about phone calls here, not music or video. Is it loud and legible enough?
4. Some sources refer to the device as "semi-ruggedized." Does the documentation mention this and if so, what are the environmental limits (water intrusion, shock, etc.) Not vitally important to me as I care well for my devices; just couious...
Any other thoughts on the device are greatly appreciated. I do not care about the smallest, lightest, or most fashionable device nor do I aspire to have an HDTV monitor in my pocket. I simply want a big screen PDA phone with all the specs this one has as long as there are no deal-breakers lurking inside.
Thanks in advance for the replies.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. indeed: to less resolution (VGA would be better when reading HTML mails or browsing), but I don't need a screen protector because the display is as good as my old PDA WITH anti-glare protector.
2. no probs with it. Only exception: when vavigation in car with open roof and the sun backwards - ok - no other display would manage this sun-problem.
3. When I compare my old Medion MD 40600 with the Sedna, I can say the Sedna seems about 50% louder (comparision with iGo 2006+). I had to lower the volume with the Sedna from 10 (maximum) to 7.
4. looks like rubber surface, but it is syntetics with roundes corners
Summary: all-in-one device with lots of modern features, but sometimes probs with the internal GPS (this prob would be off topic)
I hope u can understand my translated German
greetings from Germany

Outdoor under direct sun light?

Does anyone have a clue how the new screen behaves outdoor, especially under direct sun light. My current HD "sucks" on that matter, espaecially when using GPS navigation during day time .
Thanks

yeah, HD sucks under the sun lol.

indoor comparision..

The HD 2 has a light sensor which will control the backlight based on the light in the environment you in. I have seen it on a Rodium and i must say it works very nice!

SNL said:
The HD 2 has a light sensor which will control the backlight based on the light in the environment you in. I have seen it on a Rodium and i must say it works very nice!
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Click to collapse
If I'm not misstaken, even the Touch Diamond had that...
still doesn't answer the "question"

The Touch HD had this too but still sucks under sunlight. Even if you manually set to maximum brightness it was pretty bad under sunlight.

I thinks this is a hard question to answer till the device is in the market

Normally, it is the glass protection of a capacitive screen which gives good readability under the direct sun, while the resistive needs a plastic cover able to catch up the points of pressure filtering a lot of brightness.
In my experience (Samsung Omnia HD), the capacitive is very readable even under the sunlight, BUT, I'm not sure if the 65K colors Vs. 16M colors could affect the result.

I agree dfulgo. Although I'm not sure but I think this might really be the case.
If you have seen this video in youtube (link below) where they compared 7 different phones, even the Omnia2 AMOLED screen cannot compare to the Iphone's sunlight legibility. I think this is really mainly because of the strong reflection on the glass for the Omnia2, and not just the brightness of the screen. And the Omnia HD with capacitive screen looks better in sunlight than Omnia2.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8b5Jb_dB3M
I'm hoping this is the case, so we might have good sunlight legibility for the HD2!

warnold007 said:
I think this is really mainly because of the strong reflection on the glass for the Omnia2, and not just the brightness of the screen.
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Click to collapse
I am pretty sure it's because of it being an AMOLED screen. Those always have bad sunlight readability.
I think I read somewhere, that the HD2 was ok outdoors, but I am not really sure. Well, we will know for sure when it's out.

So, "Nothing new under the sun"?

Glass Cover
If Leo have glass cover (like Iphone) outdoor on direct sun light - OK
But if have plastic cover , we must wait for next phone
I hope HTC to use glass screen !!!

Answer???
If anybody have in new HTC HD2 , lets tell us about outdoor properties!!!

if anybody can use search utility, use it
it has glass screen, under sun light it is no problem...
once againt, search utility -> 3rd from right on that brown upper panel... click on search, and add a point of your question...

Please pose a photo of the screen, at least.
Thank's

the hd2 is very good in sunlight ... de best HTC device (screen) untill now.
still the iphone is a little better.

i saw hd2 in real under the sun light. difference with iphone? NO! hd2 perfectly shows its display in any condition. just 2 differences: 1) hd2's glass is more reflecting in comparison with the iphone one, but this doesn't affect its usability 2) the tft-panel adopted in hd2 has got more contrast, black is blacker!

gsmarena
Well, what you say makes me a little bit happier, because there is a preview on gsmarena.com and they say HD2 sucks under the sunlight (though the overall preview is very positive, they say sun light legibility is poor)

I also read a post by xmoo who owns a HD2 said sunlight legibility sucked. :confused
Still no conclusive answer. I guess we need a photo comparison between iPhone, Touch HD and HD2.

mobile-review
According to some pictures from mobile-review (there is a review in russian, google translate is not 100 procent), it looks not so bad (they say it´s better than on previous HTC devices)...problem is the screen reflects too much, but it looks to me colours are not washed out

HTC HD2 Screen Brightness

Am I the only one having trouble with HD2's screen brightness ?
I work in a very shiny-sunny environment (I'm a ski instructor) and I can barely use the phone when I'm working. I manage to use the basic functions, but watching a video is impossible, I just cannot see a thing !
I compared with a friend's Iphone a few days ago and it seems Iphone screen's brigthness is much better. (or is it the material used for the screen itself?) Even though it's sunny, the Iphone shows nice colors and images, when the HTC darken everything, coupled with reflects making the whole thing unusable...
I'm already using a 100% brightness all the time but it doesn't help much when the light is strong. Though it helps draining the battery quicker...
I don't want to start any sterile debate Iphone-HD2, I'm very happy with my HD2. Indoor the screen is just great. I just have that one big problem in my everyday life with that phone...

I have no problem looking at the screen under direct sunlight with auto-adjusted screen brightness setting. 100% screen brightness should not be a problem for me.
Did you use any screen protector? Perhaps different type of screen protector might affect the brightness of the screen, at least by minimal amount.

Mmmh
Maybe the snow reflection and the very high luminosity around here is responsible for this I don't know.
I've always had that problem with my HD2. Yesterday I installed a Zagg Full Body Shield, and it's even worse ! Though there are less reflects (the screen is not so shiny anymore), the screen protector make it even darker.
I'll remove that screen protector, see why here if you're interested : http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=6255312&postcount=57

podrob said:
Maybe the snow reflection and the very high luminosity around here is responsible for this I don't know.
I've always had that problem with my HD2. Yesterday I installed a Zagg Full Body Shield, and it's even worse ! Though there are less reflects (the screen is not so shiny anymore), the screen protector make it even darker.
I'll remove that screen protector, see why here if you're interested : http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=6255312&postcount=57
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Click to collapse
i agreee. 10 char

myth1001 said:
I have no problem looking at the screen under direct sunlight with auto-adjusted screen brightness setting. 100% screen brightness should not be a problem for me.
Did you use any screen protector? Perhaps different type of screen protector might affect the brightness of the screen, at least by minimal amount.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course you don't have a problem with viewing your phone outdoors - you live in England.

try an antiglare screen protector, do you have your brightness set to 100%?