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Different TFT-panel in S100 and S110

I just recently upgraded from Qtek S100 to the S110, got the phones from Brightpoint in Sweden, and now i have the opportunity to compare the two devices. First thing i noticed was the differences in the display that no one seem to mention anywhere in forums. The S100 panel is somewhat easier to view in direct sunlight, more reflective. On the other hand, the S110 display is somewhat crisper in the matrix, it's like looking at a display with slightly smaller dot pitch. This is very clear when using a screen protetcor such as the ClearTouch. It doesn't "spread" the pixels as much producing the typical "sparkling effect" seen when using protector. I am still a bit undecided as to which one i like the most, at first i was a tad disappointed by the S110 -- that is by the display only of course!! ;-)
Anyone else had this experience on the two?

I compared my friends MDAc and my new S110 and honestly I cant see that diff you're talking about. To me the two LCDs look identical. I'm positively shocked by the speed diff caused by the extra 64MB of RAM, in some apps this make a hell of a diff.

That's strange, i suppose HTC have been using two different panels but not just on the S110, apparently, but also on the MDA's or perhaps it's just batch-specific based upon serial numbers.
Anyway, for those who might be interested, here's some more details on the two different LCD versions i've tested so far on the Magician:
1) Earlier model (?) seen on my S100
In this version of the LCD, brightness of the screen gets darker when tilting the device upwards, i.e. looking from below the device towards the LCD, and it gets brighter when looking from above. Sideways tilting the device makes the screen fade a bit. In the outdoors, this display is bright and reflective, you can read it without backlight indoors, and in direct sunlight and wearing sunglasses, the display remains quite rich in contrast and brightness.
2) The model i have in my S110
This screen has the opposite properties when tilting vertically. Looking from below the device makes the screen look brighter, less contrast. Looking from above the device makes the screen look darker, more contrast. From a right angle the screen appears to have slightly less contrast but more vivid colours, especially red tone more brilliant. Sideways the screen has a slight, very slight yellow tint, also when viewing from below. This screen is slightly less sensitive to viewing angles and it's most evident when watching movies in landscape mode, more comfortable view. In direct sunlight the screen is very dark, less reflective. Indoors it is nearly impossible to view the screen without backlight in a low-lit room. The screen image looks weird when looking through polaroid sunglasses. Slightly less visible in the car, though not a big problem. This screen looks good with a screen-protector, less internal reflection as seen on the S100 i have (screen-protector causes the display to "shimmer" a bit)
This is just my subjective opinion of course. The S110 is really awesome, i love the extra punch in speed and the ability to install all the software you want without counting bits and bytes, i upgraded because i considered staying with this model for a while. I am still a bit puzzled about the screen, starting to get used to it now. The difference is that remarkable i had to change the today-theme i had made for my S100 because it looked VERY dull on the S110!

this is absolutely true - mda compact and xda mini (both are the so called magican series) have different screens, the screen is made by different companies. you can see the difference easily especially in sunlight. i can really tell since i have both devices and can use them with identical today screen - the xda mini screen is so mutch brighter and more sharpen and also very much better to read in straight sunlight.
cheers, lutz

Sorry to say that but that a load of bull****. Any magician uses QVGA res on the exact same size so the pixel pitch is exactly the same. Why should one look "sharper" than the other. The only way this would be possible is by moving the pixels closer together (smaller pith) or using higher res. And neither is the case with any magician. It may be slightly different with sunlight use when there really are two diff LCDs but one CANNOT be sharper than the other. Its simply not possible.

nobody said anything about resolution or anything. but you must admit that e.g. a different material on the back of the screen or another way of lightening the screen may result in different sharpness. and thats the case.
cheers, lutz

Can something look sharper that actually isnt???

yes

I know, with a lot of liquor some women tend to look sharper than they really are.
Honestly, I admit that there may be a difference in performance/looks when exposed to sunlight etc but since every screen on the magician uses the exact same pixel pitch and res and size I doubt that there is really a diff to be seen other than what some people wish they can see. Otherwise you could make an LCD sharper by altering its surface. I mean you can make it blurry when pouring vaseline over the screen but make it sharper - I doubt that.

Did you ever see different LCD monitors in a row in some market? And you still say that there can't be a difference in picture quality between two monitors of the same size and resolution? Well, if you say yes, then you should have a closer look next time! Even the whole display technology varies from display to display.
PDA displays are reflektive and there are definately differences in the quality. My guess is that they built in improved panels somewhere within the production process so that newer devices (also new S100) have the better displays than the older ones.

Well with big LCDs its a big difference. They can use a lot of panel technologies (TN, MVA, IPS etc.), different anti-refectice coatings, different resolution and pixel pitch and so forth. The variation with small PDA LCDs are way more restricted.
We seem to have a misunderstanding anyway. I don't doubt that one magician could look different from another if the LCD has another coating or different backlight etc. BUT they cant be sharper since they use the same resolution and pixel pitch so that is not possible from a technological point of view. You may find one look different (maybe better) but that is a very subjective view. Besides all magicians (no matter if they are sold by O2 or Vodafone or Qtek or ...) are made by HTC, why should they use different LCD models in the exact same production line???

Ok, now I get your point. It's how you define what you mean with sharper. Sure, the resolutions stays the same, so the sharpness with regards to the resolution isn't better.
What about this guess: They asked their LCD supplier (or chose a different one) to supply them with LCDs with better reflektive behavior because the Magician isn't great under direct sunlight. So the newer panels have a stronger reflektion. I also suppose that these reflektions on the background cause the pixel to spread their light also more to the side (sorry for saying it that way, it's just a guess and I'm no pro). This would cause a pixel also to light some of its neighbours and this would cause a less sharp picture.
Just a guess.

TyTn tft screen not transflective, should it be??

Hello
I have wondered that tytn tft screen should be in specs transflective but at least my tytn screen is not, becouse i cannot see anything on sunny day. Should it be transflective or not?
B.R
Seppo Somppi

It is transflective. You just have to get the sun angle right to see it. Angle the screen so that if your hermes was a mirror then the sun would be reflected right into your eyes.

If i compare the screen to nokia E61i screen, that is tranflective but my tytn screen is not, do i have some different model or can you see something in bright sun light?

I cant see mine on a sunny day either...

Sleuth255 said:
It is transflective. You just have to get the sun angle right to see it. Angle the screen so that if your hermes was a mirror then the sun would be reflected right into your eyes.
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I tried that. Now I can't see anything! At all! (Cause I was blinded, see?)

Yeah the screen is pretty sucky in sunlight. My Universal was so much better. The colours washed out a little, but everything was perfectly clear. The backlight was not needed at all.

yeah the screen isn't so great during the sunlight.. thank goodness I'm inside most of the time..
oh well, the days are getting shorter here in Tokyo, so the transflective screen won't be needed

I heard about this as well.. it is quite weird that still there are screen these days that are non-transflective. Not that it is very useful to me, but it does save me couple of times. In my Wizard (i.e. not TyTn) when some of the programs that I've installed, causes the backlight to drop to 0, and if it weren't the transflective screen, it would be very very difficult to get it back.

Display in direct sunlight conditions

Hi, i would to know the legibility of display in direct sunlight. Is it better of the Omnia display?! Or the same thing?

[email protected] said:
Hi, i would to know the legibility of display in direct sunlight. Is it better of the Omnia display?! Or the same thing?
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i would also like to know this as well. i believe touch HD has an ambient light sensor, but it is a different manufacture than that used in iphone. also, the HD's sensor is below two layers of plastic (the screen and the touch/pressure layer), whereas iphone's sensor is just below the glass. so those of you who already have the phone, please report back thanks

buggybug0 said:
i would also like to know this as well. i believe touch HD has an ambient light sensor, but it is a different manufacture than that used in iphone. also, the HD's sensor is below two layers of plastic (the screen and the touch/pressure layer), whereas iphone's sensor is just below the glass. so those of you who already have the phone, please report back thanks
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The HD's sensor is not underneath the screen/pressure layer. It is in the opening for the speaker. The screen is not transflective therefore the backlight is required to view the display.

ardsar said:
The HD's sensor is not underneath the screen/pressure layer. It is in the opening for the speaker. The screen is not transflective therefore the backlight is required to view the display.
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okay. sooooooooo.... back to the OP's question : does the screen brightness changes when the ambient light changes? and it is good to view in direct sunlight? i couldn't extract the ansswer from your reply.

buggybug0 said:
okay. sooooooooo.... back to the OP's question : does the screen brightness changes when the ambient light changes? and it is good to view in direct sunlight? i couldn't extract the ansswer from your reply.
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yes the screen brightness changes with ambient light. Display is comparable to the touch pro when viewing in daylight, but as the iphone is transflective, it will obviously not be as good.

Hi, I've had the Touch HD for 5 days now. The display sensitivity does change according to the ambient light, which I find very useful when going in and out of buildings. The display can be read fairly easy even on direct sunlight. I was reading an ebook without any problems midday with sun over my head. As far as Omnia, I can't judge since I haven't used one. But I can compare it to my old Tytn II which was unusable in direct sunlight. The display on Touch HD is really great.

fuko747 said:
Hi, I've had the Touch HD for 5 days now. The display sensitivity does change according to the ambient light, which I find very useful when going in and out of buildings. The display can be read fairly easy even on direct sunlight. I was reading an ebook without any problems midday with sun over my head. As far as Omnia, I can't judge since I haven't used one. But I can compare it to my old Tytn II which was unusable in direct sunlight. The display on Touch HD is really great.
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OK...this is good.

The Touch HD display is not better than the Touch Diamond display in direct sunlight. Unfortunately it doesn't come close to the superb direct sunlight performance of the iPhone.
I also own the Sedna and although this device is perfectly usable in direct sunlight, even with the display brightness set to 0, the colors are dull and also much worse than on the iPhone under the same lighting conditions.
I can't hide the feeling that HTC just wants to earn easy money, look at the video performance of the Qualcomm chipset, it should have improved from the TyTN II outrage but nothing has happened yet.
HTC wants to build an iPhone killer? I'm pretty sure they can do it. Unfortunately they would need to charge much more for such a unit or at least lower their profit margin. Apparently they don't need to do that...yet.

actually it is not very good ... i cant see well...
any tweaks to make it peform better under sun??

yeah, i can hardly see anything on mine in sunlight, it would be ok to make a call, but to text or read a long text etc is verydifficult, didnt even trey watching a video, are there tweaks or anything for the screen?

disable auto backlight adjustment and crank up the backlight! battery peformance will suffer but its much easier to read. I think there are screen protectors out there than makes the screen more ligible in direct sunlight. try searching for it. dont take my word for it though

You can install Lumos and set it such that in sun conditions, it will respond with an increased backlight performance. At least Lumos will allow your phone to auto-adapt to the light conditions.
As for my personal experience, I have an ultraclear-type screen protector and the HD is pretty much unusable in direct sun light. I guess that with a less classy screen protector, the display would be readable outside but I haven't checked this out yet.

I tried disabling disabling auto adjust and cranking up brightness for sun.
It ATE my battery, left low level screen light on and this just is not a good thing.
I am outside a lot and looking for a solution, cannot believe the screen is so clear and good until you hit the sunlight. This is as I set on laptop and type in sun.

Display light leakage on top corners of my X1 Screen? anyone?

Hi,
When I dispay a black background color on my X1 for example the pannel screen while it is switching to a different pannel or standard pannel I see a bit of light leakage on the top 2 corners of the screen from each side. A bit white, if you understand what i mean.
Does anyone notice that?
Thanks for the info

Yep I notice it too. Probably a case of bad backlight LED placement.
This screen doesn't seem to have as good a contrast ratio (black levels) as the one on the Touch Pro.

it's rather massive. Its even visible on camera mode when you have wide-mode off.
I hate living with imperfection.
How bad is it on your device?
I have to say its not visible when other colors than black are displayed

I'm probably seeing the same thing as you are - two bright areas on the top/left edge of the display.
The light is "leaking" because the display contrast isn't high enough and the screen assembly is a bit thin.
It's something I can live with, but I do wish SE had sourced for a better display. HTC has raised the bar since Diamond and Raphael, and this one is pretty good for a Windows Mobile device, but there are tons of even better screens out there - think Japanese super-keitais.

humm.. I was trying to look for the light leakage but I can't really seem to see it.... perhaps you could post some photos of what it actually looks like?

yup, it's there

don't see any leakage on mine...

I tried one in the shop and the screen was tilting left a little bit. Also the flip was a bit loose even in closed. Any comfirmation?

I'm pretty sure all devices have the same leakage problem. Just put on a pure black screen and look for the white cones decending from the top corners.
It's because of the led's behind the screen I guess

honestly, there's very little (leakage, short of better term) if not none. If you have seen TouchPro, it leaks like crazy...

Leakage is pretty terrible, no doubt about it. Wonder if this fault is only on some handsets?

zenkinz said:
honestly, there's very little (leakage, short of better term) if not none. If you have seen TouchPro, it leaks like crazy...
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My TP don't have this at all. Virtually no leakage. Pretty much solid black even in pitch black environment. Contrast and viewing angles are excellent. One of the best if not the best screen I've seen to date. Seems like they're using 8 bit panel instead of 6 bit TN panel. The latter have terrible contrast and viewing angle as standard.

lucky if u only seen it on top corners, mine are on all corners!

i don't see any leakage... went into a pitch black room and pressed the panel button and i see no white light coming out of the corners...

VaThInK said:
My TP don't have this at all. Virtually no leakage. Pretty much solid black even in pitch black environment. Contrast and viewing angles are excellent. One of the best if not the best screen I've seen to date. Seems like they're using 8 bit panel instead of 6 bit TN panel. The latter have terrible contrast and viewing angle as standard.
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then you must have a rare TP, all the TP owners in Singapore reported to have the same leakage. that's if we are talking about the same thing with regards to light leakage...

Hi,
2 days ago a friend of me and me bougt this moblie,
yesterday i gave it back to the store, cause i've seen the white
leakage on my display too, on the devise of my friend its ok.
today I'll get a new one. Hope its ok there....
Thought it was damage or so....

zenkinz said:
then you must have a rare TP, all the TP owners in Singapore reported to have the same leakage. that's if we are talking about the same thing with regards to light leakage...
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Click to collapse
Maybe I'm missing the point here. Do you mind posting a screen shot of the issue so we can be on the same boat? Now you've got me curious.

I'll try and post a photo when I get home later, mine is mainly in the bottom left half of the screen and it's really noticeable and distracting when viewing something dark.

Hmmm, I've definitely noticed leakage on my xperia, in the bottom left hand corner when in landscape.
I had a Touch Pro for a few weeks before I got the xperia, and the screen on that was flawless. I might give vodafone a ring and see if I can get it replaced...

Don't forget to switch the display brightness to full to be able to observe the leakage. When I watch the Bond trailer I can definitely see the leakage on the top corners when there is a black background in the beginning. It's rather distrubing but I do believe that all devices have that in some sort of extent. I think you just have to get used to it and live with it.

n1 in a sunlight

This is a big concern of mine. I love the specs of the n1 but I've read that nothing can be seen on the screen in direct sunlight. I'd buy an HTC HD2 because I can even read books in sunlight with it but they stick with the win mobile and I like to have an android phone. So what do you say about n1 screen quality in comparison to the htc hd2 screen?

NB2 said:
This is a big concern of mine. I love the specs of the n1 but I've read that nothing can be seen on the screen in direct sun light. I'd buy an HTC HD2 because I can even read books in sunlight with it but they stick with the win mobile and I like to have an android phone. So what do you say about n1 screen quality?
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The only people who say this are people who don't know how to use the phone. Basically there is an automatic brightness option that changes the brightness based on how bright it is around the phone. Unfortunately, it seems like this feature always keeps the screen fairly dim, so I don't like it.
I have this feature disabled at all times and keep my phone at maximum brightness. It looks perfectly fine in sunlight.
People who say the screen doesn't work in sunlight don't know how to disable this feature (ie don't know how to use Android / change simple settings).

Paul22000 said:
I have this feature disabled at all times and keep my phone at maximum brightness. It looks perfectly fine in sunlight.
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I've seen an app on an htc hd2 that changes the brightness automatically but one can adjust the brightness for specific surround conditions (i.e it looks like a graphical equalizer). I do not own the phone but I was told that this app works quite good. Is there something similar for the n1?

I can attest the screen pretty much sucks in sunligh at full brightness. The beaming sun in south florida is relentless.

Yeah, the N1 is hard to read in the bright sun and its not just pooping on stupid people that dont understand computerz or a simple setting that fixes it, it just gives glare in the sun.

Most phones/screens, regardless of their technology, are difficult to see in direct sunlight. But then, why are you trying to read the screen in direct sunlight? Just turn the other way, or shield it with your hand. Not that hard to figure out, really.
I use the automatic light sensor all the time. The only time is gets confused is is in a dim room, bright source (window, lamp) directly in front of the sensor. You have to realize what the sensor is seeing. Often times it's seeing light reflected off your face, hence the up/down/up/down of the screen brightness.
I honestly don't see either as issues with the phone, but the users rather.

I've had no problems using my Nexus One in direct sunlight.

Raymond77 said:
I've had no problems using my Nexus One in direct sunlight.
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really? i will be honest, i cannot see **** in direct sunlight unless i have the brightness all the way up... and that screen on full brightness is a battery hog...

I have no major probs with mine in direct sunlight, it's not that much different to the G1. I'm sure there are phones with better screens for direct sunlight but it's far from unusable.
The auto brightness feature works fine, you just have to wait a couple of seconds for it to adjust. Only people who don't know how to use the phone disable it and waste all their battery.

JHaste said:
really? i will be honest, i cannot see **** in direct sunlight unless i have the brightness all the way up... and that screen on full brightness is a battery hog...
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Really. I usually leave the screen set to auto, on the odd occasion I've had to turn it up to the brightest setting, but as the last poster said usually it'll catch up and turn the brightness up itself.

snoopstah said:
I have no major probs with mine in direct sunlight, it's not that much different to the G1. I'm sure there are phones with better screens for direct sunlight but it's far from unusable.
The auto brightness feature works fine, you just have to wait a couple of seconds for it to adjust. Only people who don't know how to use the phone disable it and waste all their battery.
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Or people who don't have any problem with the battery? With my use the battery lasts for 20+ hours, which is more than enough time for me to get to a charger again.
I always have the brightness at max and have had it that way for all the phones I've had (where you can set the brightness). If I'm gonna be more than a day without charging it I'll of course turn it down, but it's far from a neccesity for day to day use.
Just checked my phone and it's been off the charger for 16 hours and I still have 53% left on the battery.

Brightness in the direct Thai sunlight is fully adequate. The only problem I've had is that in direct sunlight, everything else is well lit, and so reflects off the screen.
Brightness: no problem
Reflection off the screen: annoying.

Paul22000 said:
The only people who say this are people who don't know how to use the phone. Basically there is an automatic brightness option that changes the brightness based on how bright it is around the phone. Unfortunately, it seems like this feature always keeps the screen fairly dim, so I don't like it.
I have this feature disabled at all times and keep my phone at maximum brightness. It looks perfectly fine in sunlight.
People who say the screen doesn't work in sunlight don't know how to disable this feature (ie don't know how to use Android / change simple settings).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
False. I know this phone well and disabled the auto brightness within 20 minutes of owning the phone. As much as I love my N1, and would not trade it for any phone, the amazing OMLED screen is one of the worst screens I've used as far as clarity in direct sunlight. This is not an N1 problem, but a problem with OLED screens in general. Assuming the new iPhone that should be released in June will have an OLED screen, it will have the same problem in direct sunlight.
You can buy anti-glare screen protectors that help this problem, but you do sacrifice some of the stunning brightness and clarity of the N1 screen in regular viewing conditions.
There is no way I would trade the N1 screen for the likes of the iPhone screen as the benefits of the OLED screen in non-direct sunlight viewing far outweighs the difficulty seeing the screen in direct sunlight. In fact, the N1 screen is probably its most impressive feature (aside from its blazing speed).

irishrally said:
the amazing OMLED screen is one of the worst screens I've used as far as clarity in direct sunlight. This is not an N1 problem, but a problem with OLED screens in general. Assuming the new iPhone that should be released in June will have an OLED screen, it will have the same problem in direct sunlight.
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of cause this is the n1 problem and yours in the end! How are you suppose to take pictures with the n1 if you see nothing on the screen? How you suppose to dial a number if you see nothing on the screen? Saying this is not the phone to blame but the screen manufacturing process sounds stupid to me.

I have never in my life encountered an electronic device with a screen that was perfectly readable in direct sunlight, that is to say, as readable as indoors (not even my laptop plugged in the mains and set to full brightness). Reason: no screen technology can provide as much brightness as the sun. Solution: accept it, and cover the screen with one hand while you use the device with the other....
NB2 said:
of cause this is the n1 problem and yours in the end! How are you suppose to take pictures with the n1 if you see nothing on the screen? How you suppose to dial a number if you see nothing on the screen? Saying this is not the phone to blame but the screen manufacturing process sounds stupid to me.
Click to expand...
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take pictures: look over the device and hit the shutter button..
input: open you jacket and form the number while providing shadow with it, or provide shadow with one hand while forming the number with the other. It's a fact that you need to accept, period.

Video sunlight test
Here is a video I found, it basically compares the N1's screen in sunlight to the Droid's screen at three different brightness levels. Enjoy.
youtube. com/watch?v=YwyJq6oF4wE
note, since I'm new I can't post links... just remove the space

The screen is really nice in normal light but yeah it sucks in the sunlight LOL Probably depends where you live but in sunny South Florida it's a pain sometimes. Doesn't matter which direction you turn definitely have to shield it with your hand and it's still pretty hard to read. I'm looking into getting an anti glare screen protector for it to see how that helps. The display is absolutely beautiful but i'm starting to think maybe oled isn't the best technology for cell phone screens

Oled
The main difference between the screen technology in the N1 and most other phones is that on the N1, as I understand it, each pixel emits its own light (OLED = Organic Light Emitting Diode) as opposed to a 'liquid' film lighted from the back (LCD = Liquid Crystal Display). The only technology that I know of that will work well in direct sunlight is e-ink.
It is not likely that a pixel or a backlight could ever reasonably compete with direct sunlight, but on an LCD screen it is possible for the sunlight to reflect off the back layer or to hold the device is a certain angle to 'perhap's see the image better in sunlight then on the OLED type display.
However, having the N1 myself, I have found that I am able to shade the display in full Southern California Sunlight well enough to function with the device. The OLED display is much too gorgious to give up for LCD in my opinion.