Related
It's got me thinking about this whole thing.
WHAT IF you could "rewrite" the radio stack, much like Linksys has provided the source code so that avid developers and Linux lovers could mess around with it?
Could we possibly enable EDGE capability? Could we retune to get 850 instead of 900 MHz? Could we get 802.11g out of b devices?
Since the radio stack can obviously be changed regardless of the CE ROM, it may not be tied too directly to jump points in memory (unless the developers are following a fixed structure on how to build the stack).
I'm thinking back in the days when latter 33.6k modems were flash-upgradable to 56k with that K56Flex/X2 fiasco back then...
If the hardware is there and is primarily software-controlled, it just takes the right reprogramming to get it right.
Anyone care to support or debunk the theory?
i thought most of this stuff is hardware related.
BeyondtheTech said:
Could we get 802.11g out of b devices?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Radio stack has nothing to WiFi or bluetooth. It is only for GSM part of device. On BA bluetooth chip can be software-upgraded to BT 1.2, WiFi - cannot be upgraded.
Regarding adding EDGE, etc. Even in the case if hardware supports it, noone would share complete sources of radio stack (it has a proprietary ATI nucleos inside), noone would give you complete technical documentation, and noone would spend his time on making such changes in a ROM. For example, Siemens SL45i hardware supports GPRS, but it was never implemented and noone could do that.
BeyondtheTech said:
It's got me thinking about this whole thing.
WHAT IF you could "rewrite" the radio stack, much like Linksys has provided the source code so that avid developers and Linux lovers could mess around with it?
Could we possibly enable EDGE capability? Could we retune to get 850 instead of 900 MHz? Could we get 802.11g out of b devices?
Since the radio stack can obviously be changed regardless of the CE ROM, it may not be tied too directly to jump points in memory (unless the developers are following a fixed structure on how to build the stack).
I'm thinking back in the days when latter 33.6k modems were flash-upgradable to 56k with that K56Flex/X2 fiasco back then...
If the hardware is there and is primarily software-controlled, it just takes the right reprogramming to get it right.
Anyone care to support or debunk the theory?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Depending on the implementation, at least in theory, some of this may be possible. Some of the 56k modems were designed to use a DSP that was capable of support both protocols, and possibly others depending on the capability of the DSP. However, there are also several hardware limitations in some of the phones that will make some of these changes impossible.
As far as supporting EDGE, I believe that it would be quite a bit more difficult because of the modulation techniques required. If this was even feasable, the radio stack (DSP) code would be needed to be re-written to support more modulation techniques (assuming that this wasn't done in hardware).
Considering that there is a serially programmed clock synthesizer chip built into the Wallaby to address each 200 kHz channel, in theory it should be relatively easy to modify the codes to use 850 MHz channels in place of the 900 MHz ones (Assuming you have the source code). The only other limiting factor I can think of would be the RF section.
As already mentioned, I seriously doubt that you would be able to re-write code to make 802.11b support 802.11g because of some of the hardware differences.
As already mentioned, I seriously doubt that you would be able to re-write code to make 802.11b support 802.11g because of some of the hardware differences.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course, if we had the radio stack code, we could potentially make BT emulate Wifi - since they both technically share the same frequency at 2.4ghz.
(Edit: Then again, maybe not. )
And also, proprietary GSM/CDMA/whatnot modules are pretty much the only obstacle to a truly Open Source phone. >_>
in the regestry edit you enter the section BCMSDDHD1 has any one noticed that the first 3 letters bcm reveals to the broadcom chip that exists in it as models from this company starts with 3 letters like (BCM4329)
and the only chip in this company that supports n wifi is the (BCM4329) that exists in the google nexus one and this chip supports fm transmition so
conclusion (if hd2 really supports wifi n type then it contains the only chip that supports it which is the BCM4329 that should support fm transmittence ) so if (wifi n) is really supported then the hd2 has a built in (fm transmitter hardware) that exists in the (BCM4329)chip so we hope to make an application to activate this option
correct me if iam wrong
what we have reached till now for developers
1.BLAST3RR have helped us with the datasheet in the attatchements for the broadcom chip
2. some tests are made to make sure that the hd2 has a really wifi n hardware and it seems that it supports it some what so we are some what sure that hd2 contains the BCM4329 chip as it is the only chip that supports wifi n type but we need live evidense
3. there are some pics of the internal components but it doesnot show the kind of the chip
4. xmoo posted a link to a cab that may help us in developing http://rapidshare.com/files/34053706...ebug_Tools.cab and here is the link of its thread http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=5446085
5.BLAST3RR reached that hd2 definitely has an audio path to the TX part for the FM radio, as it is listed in the 'WceSetAudioDev'.
Among the options is a 'I2S TX'. I therefore assume this is the path needed to feed the transmitter audio
6.useful files are added in attatchements fmradiosdk.dll & htcfm.dill to help in development
what is missing us
1. we only miss drivers for now
thanks you all for your support
i have posted a post in windows software development forum to ask experts to help us this is the post http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=624822
updates
the hd2 is confirmed now to to have the bmc 4329 see this link http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=624331 see the attatchements
Interesting..
Subscribing to this topic.
BLAST3RR said:
Interesting..
Subscribing to this topic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks for the support
+1 here ______________
kregowski said:
+1 here ______________
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
let's hope some of the professionals read this post and help us
please i don't want this post to die
Anything is (possible). But wouldn't the (HD2) need some kind of (transmission aerial) suitable for (FM)? And if it had that, then (HTC would have added the feature in the first place).
Why the weird brackets, by the way?
interesting
Good luck for the R&D guys to figure that out. Some mod should make this one sticky.
+1 here aswell
oooh yea, subscribing
elyl said:
Anything is (possible). But wouldn't the (HD2) need some kind of (transmission aerial) suitable for (FM)? And if it had that, then (HTC would have added the feature in the first place).
Why the weird brackets, by the way?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the fm transmittance antenna is in the broadcom chip(BCM4329) it self as it is said to has two antennas see this http://www.broadcom.com/products/Wireless-LAN/802.11-Wireless-LAN-Solutions/BCM4329
and rememper tp2 it has fm radio hardware but it was disabled until some developers enabled it by cab and disabeling wifi n in hd2 until a sutiable tweak to enable it (who knows why htc do things like this)
i hope this thread to be stickey as it will be ignored and we will never know the truth
+1
Very interesting indeed!
elyl said:
Anything is (possible). But wouldn't the (HD2) need some kind of (transmission aerial) suitable for (FM)? And if it had that, then (HTC would have added the feature in the first place).
Why the weird brackets, by the way?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Even if this is the case, I think the same antenna would be used as for receiving FM radio (the headset). So still, no worries as far as the aerial concerns.
This would probably require a driver to work first, though. Then the second thing to find is an application to send audio to it/control frequencies.
Anyone who would be able to develop such application will definitely get a donation from me.
BLAST3RR said:
Even if this is the case, I think the same antenna would be used as for receiving FM radio (the headset). So still, no worries as far as the aerial concerns.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
but i think fm transmittance antenna is not the same as the fm reciver my frind has nokia n79 it needs headset to recive fm but it transmits without it
i think fm transmittence is direct from the chip as it has two antennas one for wifi and other for fm transmittence as i read before but reciving fm signals is through the headset as it needs longer antena
hoss_n2 said:
but i think fm transmittance antenna is not the same as the fm reciver my frind has nokia n79 it needs headset to recive fm but it transmits without it
i think fm transmittence is direct from the chip as it has two antennas one for wifi and other for fm transmittence as i read before but reciving fm signals is through the headset as it needs longer antena
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know, but I was just stating that the aerial should therefore be no problem.
And that this would definitely be worth investigating.
When I had a Nokia N86 it had the FM transmitting aerial built into the battery cover.
BLAST3RR said:
I know, but I was just stating that the aerial should therefore be no problem.
And that this would definitely be worth investigating.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sorry you are right the aerial is not the problem now
Subscribing!!!!
I was trying to do a little research in to if I could get the FM transmitter/reciever to work or if it would be even possible. A little google searching around I found this. And the person who had been doing the most work on that part of android was an actual broadcom employee. So I sent him a quick, polite email asking him about FM support in the Nexus one. It is as follows:
"Mr. Harte,
I noticed your commits here. Will Broadcom provide support/drivers for the FM transmitter/receiver in the Nexus One and other Android devices?
Sincerely,
Will"
And his surprisingly helpful and quick response:
"Hello,
The FM receiver is supported in the HTC Incredible and HTC EVO 4G. I’m not sure if the Nexus One hardware supports FM. The 4329 chip has FM, but I don’t know if the external components required for the FM Antenna are populated on the board. I believe there is also some work needed in the kernel to enable the audio path for FM, but if/when HTC open-sources the kernel for the EVO or Incredible, this should be evident. Also, the EVO and Incredible use the Broadcom Bluetooth stack, while the Nexus One uses BlueZ. I don’t think there is any support in BlueZ for FM. I have no idea about FM Transmit, but I would highly doubt it is possible to get that to work…
-Howard"
That makes me sad but at least now I know. Hopefully though this will provide some light to any crafty developers interested tinkering with this.
Shorthand.
Even if the hardware says fm/transmit/receive, we would have to solder, replace the bluetooth stack, and possibly replace the chip firmware to get it to work.
Short, short hand.. NO FM on nexus one.
No really, somehow he neglected to mention the sister Desire.
Regarding the antenna portion, it's been proven that the nexus can find stations. . .just not output any sound from them.
Mi|enko said:
Regarding the antenna portion, it's been proven that the nexus can find stations. . .just not output any sound from them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do remember reading about that. Can you find the source? If thats true, then we know the only problem is the stack.
williamthrilliam said:
I do remember reading about that. Can you find the source? If thats true, then we know the only problem is the stack.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Check the notes from Modaco's Desire ROM port. I think it's there. But since FM radio is analog, there may be a lot more to it than a stack.
attn1 said:
Check the notes from Modaco's Desire ROM port. I think it's there. But since FM radio is analog, there may be a lot more to it than a stack.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup, his bluetooth doesn't work because he is using the Nexus One kernel. Well, we now know what part of the kernel isn't allowing the bluetooth to work; Bluez vs the Broadcom Stack. I don't know the legal implications of using it, but it seems like it would be possible.
Devastatin said:
Shorthand.
Even if the hardware says fm/transmit/receive, we would have to solder, replace the bluetooth stack, and possibly replace the chip firmware to get it to work.
Short, short hand.. NO FM on nexus one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Patently FALSE.
All we need is a kernel with FM support and the FM driver. Receive is definitely possible.
I do believe however that the power amplifier chips for transmitting are absent, so that won't be a possibility.
williamthrilliam said:
Yup, his bluetooth doesn't work because he is using the Nexus One kernel. Well, we now know what part of the kernel isn't allowing the bluetooth to work; Bluez vs the Broadcom Stack. I don't know the legal implications of using it, but it seems like it would be possible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Getting an analog tuner that isn't connected to anything to tune is not much help. I don't care what software you write, if there is no output to be captured, it's not going to happen. It's like a cable box with no television connection. It tunes just fine. If the rest of the connecting hardware is there, then there's a shot. But Google has never said there would be FM in the Nexus One at any point. I am less than optimistic.
GldRush98 said:
Patently FALSE.
All we need is a kernel with FM support and the FM driver. Receive is definitely possible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That still has not been determined.
or you can go to your favorite radio station's website and click on "listen in" or whatever and now your listening to FM on your phone. =D
or maybe not, thats how it works on my pc..
i dont understand what the bluetooth has anything to do with this? why does it matter the blueZ vs broadcom bluetooth hardware? it sounds like the fm radio portion is there and can even pick up stations with an antenna, just routing the audio. but that doesnt need to happen thru bluetooh, it could happen through the headset or loudspeaker.
RogerPodacter said:
i dont understand what the bluetooth has anything to do with this? why does it matter the blueZ vs broadcom bluetooth hardware? it sounds like the fm radio portion is there and can even pick up stations with an antenna, just routing the audio. but that doesnt need to happen thru bluetooh, it could happen through the headset or loudspeaker.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Broadcom BCM4329EKUBG has all of these functions built in. FM, 802.11, bluetooth.
http://www.broadcom.com/products/Bluetooth/Bluetooth-RF-Silicon-and-Software-Solutions/BCM4329
RogerPodacter said:
i dont understand what the bluetooth has anything to do with this? why does it matter the blueZ vs broadcom bluetooth hardware? it sounds like the fm radio portion is there and can even pick up stations with an antenna, just routing the audio. but that doesnt need to happen thru bluetooh, it could happen through the headset or loudspeaker.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The bluetooth/fm/wifi are all on one chipset.
ChillRays said:
or you can go to your favorite radio station's website and click on "listen in" or whatever and now your listening to FM on your phone. =D
or maybe not, thats how it works on my pc..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For the most part yes (esp. with those of us with froyo and flas ). But what made me start searching for this was a tornado that past by me by only a few miles. I luckily was in the car and able to tune in to a station broadcasting the Emergency Broadcasting Systems's message, but I thought it would be nice to be able to do that on my phone.
RogerPodacter said:
i dont understand what the bluetooth has anything to do with this? why does it matter the blueZ vs broadcom bluetooth hardware? it sounds like the fm radio portion is there and can even pick up stations with an antenna, just routing the audio. but that doesnt need to happen thru bluetooh, it could happen through the headset or loudspeaker.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Integrated circuits perform multiple functions. That broadcom chip could do a lot more than blue tooth. FM is analog. If all you have is the tuner and there is no connecting hardware, then yeah, you receive a signal, but it's going nowhere. If you can't capture the output, you can't use it. Do we know if the FM radio signal in the Desire is ever digitized? It could work like a regular FM radio and the digital/software part is for tuning purposes only and radio itself is analog. I read somewhere is that the HTC FM radios require wired headset use - and don't play back through blue tooth. Irony there, I think. Speculation is that is because they are used for an antenna, but I think it could also be that it's because it's an analog output. I am guessing the N1 is missing all the required circuits - except the tuner.
attn1 said:
Integrated circuits perform multiple functions. That broadcom chip could do a lot more than blue tooth. FM is analog. If all you have is the tuner and there is no connecting hardware, then yeah, you receive a signal, but it's going nowhere. If you can't capture the output, you can't use it. Do we know if the FM radio signal in the Desire is ever digitized? It could work like a regular FM radio and the digital/software part is for tuning purposes only and radio itself is analog. I read somewhere is that the HTC FM radios require wired headset use - and don't play back through blue tooth. Irony there, I think. Speculation is that is because they are used for an antenna, but I think it could also be that it's because it's an analog output. I am guessing the N1 is missing all the required circuits - except the tuner.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is true of the Touch Pro hardware at least. The FM Radio wouldn't function with out the headphones plugged in. It used the headphone wire as the antenna.
there is a great thread going in the nexus development area where some people are trying to write the kernel so that the sound has an output. It sounds like they are making great progress maybe anyone reading this thread who has some technical skills can help. I believe they too have been able to tune the phone to a station but not output the sound yet.
It seems to me we need definitive answers to the following 2 questions from HTC / Google ...
Q1. Does the nexus one have the necessary hardware and interconnections for FM radio reception and output through either the speaker or headphones. YES/NO?
Q2. Does the nexus one have the necessary hardware and interconnections for FM radio transmission of any type (music / voice). YES/NO?
If both answers are a definitive NO, we can move on. If there is a YES then the clever people here, who make the magic happen, have some hope of success.
Does anyone know the correct ppl at HTC / Google to ask these questions of?
I don’t have anything to add but would like to encourage you guys in your endeavour to get FM radio working on the N1 and also point you too or remind you what androidpolice reported at Google I/O
If this is true then perhaps all the building blocks are in place.
http://www.androidpolice.com/2010/0...nity-as-our-best-bet-post-google-io-coverage/
sd00 said:
It seems to me we need definitive answers to the following 2 questions from HTC / Google ...
Q1. Does the nexus one have the necessary hardware and interconnections for FM radio reception and output through either the speaker or headphones. YES/NO?
Q2. Does the nexus one have the necessary hardware and interconnections for FM radio transmission of any type (music / voice). YES/NO?
If both answers are a definitive NO, we can move on. If there is a YES then the clever people here, who make the magic happen, have some hope of success.
Does anyone know the correct ppl at HTC / Google to ask these questions of?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or maybe we just need to think and use the info that we have in other threads on the subject. But I'll repeat things written in another thread, by myself and other guys:
Q1. Broadcom chip brief (the best doc available for it on the net) clearly shows the radio having no separate connections but using BT's high speed UART and I2C. The interconnects are the same, and since Paul's Desire port has radio control working - that means I2C is working too, so the answer is YES.
Q2. The stated output power of the chip is good enough for short-range transmission w/o a dedicated antenna, using headphone cord. The control and data are given in the same way as in Q1. So, the answer is YES again, but with more trouble - while there is a working device utilizing FM receiver functionality, which can at least theoretically be ported completely using its source, there is no device with FM transmitter, which means - if someone wants to use transmitter, that someone needs to acquire specific Broadcom documents for the chip.
So I guess the thread can be laid to rest, and anyone that can really help - for example, to go over Desire source and figure out the correct setting for QSD UART to receive FM audio and the procedures to stream it to the speaker - are welcome to head over to Dev section.
Has anyone been able to find out if the PRO has a radio in it like the X and D2?
http://androidcommunity.com/activate-the-droid-2’s-fm-radio-yes-it-has-one-20100927/
Common sites say Yes for FM Radio, but after I checked pdadb.net and motorola's developer site for Droid Pro specs - both the sites do NOT indicated FM Radio.
Now it all remains on someone who's bought the device and can let us know.
I own a Moto Pro
How can I check? (Without opening it or voiding my warrany)
willdogs said:
I own a Moto Pro
How can I check? (Without opening it or voiding my warrany)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just plug in your headset and look for the FM Radio app in Menu. If it exists then Yes there is a FM Radio if NOT we have the answers.
FM Radio within TI wlan/bluetooth chipset
Hi Droid Pro Users!
There is a light in the dark for FM Radio fans.
I just found this info from TI about the on board chipset TI 1271
----------------
There are four solutions in the WiLink 6.0 product
offering. The WL1271 supports 802.11b/g/n in
the 2.4-GHz band, while the WL1273 supports
802.11a/b/g/n with 2.4-GHz and 5-GHz band
support. Both single-chip solutions support
Bluetooth 2.1 Release, ANT and FM transmit and
receive. The WL1271/3L support in addition to
the above, Bluetooth Low Energy Specification
4.0 + EDR.
---------
You will find all info here:
focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=12762&contentId=29993&DCMP=WTBU&HQS=ProductBulletin+OT+wilink_6
That means the Droid Pro hardware is able to receive FM Radio and maybe also to send, but receiving would be good enough for me.
Now... who is able to build the necessary drivers?
I would love to do it but I have no idea how ;-)
Maik
Very interesting indeed!
When/if built the software and drivers would be brilliant. Maybe moto can do it if requested by many of us?
In the meantime I use tunein radio app from market, which works well using my data connection, network or wifi.
Sent from my DROID PRO using XDA App
I could bet that Motorla don't care about it.
As far as my experience with Moto is...
- they know that the chip is able to do it.
- they thought they can make it work
Result...
- maybe reception is too bad because of design flaws (chip or antenna position) -> they decided not to offer it
- maybe the marketing gang thought a FM radio is nothing for a business phone...
Anyway... I would take it even with a bad reception, but I'm sure they will not offer it.
An internet radio is not allways a good solution. You need an unlimited data plan and also a good reception. I made bad experiences during train travel and also in areas with lower reception. It sucks...
I want a real radio, please
If the transistor which taks care for FM radio is phisicaly connected, so that can use headphones as the anttena, then it is possible to have FM radio on your phone. Here is some new stuff that XDA user mikereidis have discovered about TI WL 127x chip. Maybe some developer is interested.
Guyz, is this the GDR2 update; Update 8.0.10327.77 or 8.0.10328.78
I didn't see an update for notification?
Already included FM radio and data sense.
tnx,
jakelq said:
Guyz, is this the GDR2 update; Update 8.0.10327.77 or 8.0.10328.78
I didn't see an update for notification?
Already included FM radio and data sense.
tnx,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Likely both are branded as GDR2. The difference in the build number is really small. So both should include FM radio and Data Sense (though Data Sense still WILL depend on your provider branding - some won't include it still). The update will only roll out in August - right now only new devices come with it pre-installed.
I wash there was a way like in Windows Phone 7 to manually install Updates and someone had the cab files for GDR2.....is this even possible on Windows Phone 8?
I need FM radio now not 6 months from now (MLB games are free over FM)
DavidinCT said:
I wash there was a way like in Windows Phone 7 to manually install Updates and someone had the cab files for GDR2.....is this even possible on Windows Phone 8?
I need FM radio now not 6 months from now (MLB games are free over FM)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There probably is, someone just needs to capture the network traffic for downloading updates. My only hope would be if the OTA updates could use WiFi instead of cell data. I will mention, I have been watching NCS for an update for my phone, but there still isn't anything.
Also FM wouldn't help me (MLB is on 700 WLW (Reds) AM)
I believe the update check now uses certificate pinning, unfortunately. If it does, intercepting that traffic will be effectively impossible.
Too bad they haven't seen fit to include FM-HD like in the Zune HD player.
blegs38552 said:
Too bad they haven't seen fit to include FM-HD like in the Zune HD player.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd love it too as one of our music genres have switched to HD Radio only. Heck, I don't even think they are online either.
It seems though someone has found out a method to get the updates via fiddler. All I'm waiting for now is for someone to make a tutorial.
Depending on how much of the device's FM capability is hardwired vs. software-defined, it may not be able to access HD radio any more than your typical cheapo FM receiver made any time in the last thirty years could. The way HD radio is transmitted is very, very different from standard FM radio (it's a compressed digital signal which must be run through an analog-to-digital converter from the radio receiver, then decoded into an audio stream).
GoodDayToDie said:
Depending on how much of the device's FM capability is hardwired vs. software-defined, it may not be able to access HD radio any more than your typical cheapo FM receiver made any time in the last thirty years could. The way HD radio is transmitted is very, very different from standard FM radio (it's a compressed digital signal which must be run through an analog-to-digital converter from the radio receiver, then decoded into an audio stream).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HD radio is kinda a mix. FM (analog) licensed stations are only 100kHz wide with an extra 100kHz of space.
According to wikipedia/fcc on the matter,
In regular hybrid mode (Analog FM + HD Radio) a station has its full ±100 kHz of analog bandwidth and adds an extra ±30 kHz guard band (which I assume is untransmitted space) and ±70 kHz for its digital signals, thus taking a full 400kHz of width.
Also FM channels are spaced 200 kHz apart.
Besides that, the audio codec used is proprietary and I believe it is typically hardware level, based on +3yr old hardware.
Nice to get update, but I think this update are very minimal seriously we should be getting a big update right now. Waiting for the big update form Microsoft.