Database Users

1.60a upgrade questions

Hey all!
I am currently running on 1.50i.96 and am looking at upgrading to 1.60a. I dont seem to need much of on device storage space really, so i guess i'd atleast have the persistent memory benefit from 1.60a (correct me if am wrong here!)
I just unlocked my extended rom. I have a bunch of files sitting in it. The question is, can i back these files up on my computer, and get rid of it to free up space? Would that cause any problems during a hard reset or something?
The next question, how do i install the RAMDisk? Where can i find the installer for the same? Are there any procedures i'd need to follow to set my RAM disk size?
Thanks so very much!
San

i've a question fot you :
Have you read the posts about wm2005 rom in this forum ?
the 1.60 rom have 180 Mb of ram (volatile) and 14.5 Mb of Storage (persistant)
The Extended rom is NOT used by wm2005 , you can totally erase the extended rom and install all you want ....
You can install ramdisk on 1.60 rom but it's non-persistant .
persistant = : if you remove battery , content of persistant memory stay ....
non-persistant = : if you remove battery , content of non-persistant memory don't stay !!

thanks for your inputs TofClock.
I am aware of the fact that the ram disk is not persistent...the word "ram"disk is clear enough!
But i need the ram disk "just in case"...i thought it would make better sense to start using 1.60a only when i'm sure i can get more space in case i need it sometime later...for now 32 megs seems good enough though...
TofClock, by any chance could you mail me the ramdisk cab file ?? Heres my mail address...
[email protected]
Thanks again!
San

hmm...
well 1.60a has:
128MB Program memory
14.5MB Storage memory as system root
16MB ExtendedROM usable as storage
You cannot install RAMDisk on this version of ROM.
Well you can, but it will cause conflicts in the OS.
If you need more storage space, get yourself 1.50i.xx, where xx stands for amount of Program memory.
buzz

Thanks for your reply Buzz!
when I use 1.60a, I'd totally have 16MB+16MB of persistent storage right?
the question is, where do all the common files (DLLs etc.), contacts, messages etc. get installed/saved onto? One of the 16meg partitions right? My main worry is that all these common files, contacts etc. might exceed the 16meg partition that the OS is using...correct or would it??
I'd want persistent storage mainly, and as long as I can install a couple hundred megs of apps onto my storage card, I'm just fine!
thanks again big time
San

192 MB Memory on Wizard?

Dear All
Please excuse me if my questions look silly:
I bouth a Wizard and read it has 64MB RAM and 128MB ROM total 192MB
The manual also confirmed this.
At startup, evening after hard reset and pressing soft reset within 3 secs, I have:
Storage 47MB Program: 44 MB
Total 91 MB
Where are the remaining 100 MB?
Thanks
Saulo

saulo866 said:
Dear All
Please excuse me if my questions look silly:
I bouth a Wizard and read it has 64MB RAM and 128MB ROM total 192MB
The manual also confirmed this.
At startup, evening after hard reset and pressing soft reset within 3 secs, I have:
Storage 47MB Program: 44 MB
Total 91 MB
Where are the remaining 100 MB?
Thanks
Saulo
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
128MB of TOTAL ROM = 64MB for OS/ROM (not available for user) + 64MB for file storage that is available for user
64MB of RAM = Used like RAM on a PC, Windows Mobile has to load itself into RAM in order to run so that's why you'll never have 64MB free.
In any case, what you are seeing is correct

Thanks a lot
Is there any way to oncrease the total availble memory?
There are several programs I never used, in the original package, such as
- file explorer
- pictures and video
- modem links
- sim manager
- terminal services
- power point mobile
- zip
- power excel
I would love to re-install a streamline version of the OS and have back 110 or 120 MB free usable memory!
Thanks
Saulo

nope, there's no way at this moment

mobilehavoc said:
128MB of TOTAL ROM = 64MB for OS/ROM (not available for user) + 64MB for file storage that is available for user
64MB of RAM = Used like RAM on a PC, Windows Mobile has to load itself into RAM in order to run so that's why you'll never have 64MB free.
In any case, what you are seeing is correct
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So does this imply that little is gained by installing to the external storage card? I've seen both opinions on this.

if i use a memory card to store my songs and videos etc can i use botht the storage memory and program memory for the device itself. e.g. ringtones that have to be placed in the windows/rings folder and alarm and message tones which have to be in the /windows/ folder?

Dear All
Does anyone know how to free more memory?
Is there some special page on wiki (I cannot find) that explain how to tweak?
Or alternatively, is there a way to increase internal memory to 256MB.
At the moment, since most of my apps does not work on mini-SD, I need to increase internal memory
Thanks and waiting for any suggestions
saulo

ROM and RAM

What does ROM and RAM means related to the HTC TyTn ?
HTC TyTn ROM = 128 MB
HTC TyTn RAM = 64 MB
When you install application to the "Storage Memory", where will it be installed ? in the RAM ?
What are installed in the ROM ?
Where the default application from the provider (e.g. T-Mobile) are installed ?
Thanks!

gogol said:
What does ROM and RAM means related to the HTC TyTn ?
HTC TyTn ROM = 128 MB
HTC TyTn RAM = 64 MB
When you install application to the "Storage Memory", where will it be installed ? in the RAM ?
What are installed in the ROM ?
Where the default application from the provider (e.g. T-Mobile) are installed ?
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The 128 MB of Flash ROM is broken into two parts:
- 64 MB for "Storage" (think hard disk space)
- 64 MB for "Program" execution (also called "RAM")
Programs reside in storage until they are activated (at which point they are also loaded into RAM). The amount of RAM you have available is what's left after loading the OS.
The carrier apps are also stored in ROM/RAM.

RAM is used to run applications. Its content gets lost on power off.
ROM (Flash RAM indeed) is used to store firmware, to install user applications and to keep data. Its content is kept even without power. "Extended ROM" is also a part of 128MB "ROM".
As I understand, HTC TyTN has NAND flash, and so no XIP and PagePool consumes a lot of RAM, though making things to run faster.
A good reading for beginners is here and here.
I don't like the tendency to call flash memory that is writeable as "ROM" (=Read-Only Memory). IMHO it provides a lot of confusions.

Very good explanation Lurker0, and both articles are worth reading for anyone!

touch 3.5/3.6 M-Amine_2.0_RC3 memory problem

hi on the standard ROM my deice has a total of 120MB program memory but with all of those roms the total memory drops down to 84.71MB in use 47.64 does any one know why

[email protected] said:
hi on the standard ROM my deice has a total of 120MB program memory but with all of those roms the total memory drops down to 84.71MB in use 47.64 does any one know why
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A ****load of apps within manila

itje said:
A ****load of apps within manila
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah i get that but the total RAM should be 120MB it is only 84.71

perhaps learning more about what you are reporting could be an idea?
Im gonna pretend I did not see this post
im off..cheers
(no offence my friend)

itje said:
perhaps learning more about what you are reporting could be an idea?
Im gonna pretend I did not see this post
im off..cheers
(no offence my friend)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well fair enough but maybe u can explain it cause if u got a computer with a total of 120 MB RAM it will always have 120MB ram just becuse apps are using the ram does not decrease the amount of ram your computer has just the amount of memory that is free.
My device has 120 MB of program RAM and with lots of apps runnign i should still have 120MB RAM but i would have a lot less free. As it stand my polaris thinks it only has 87.4 MB of ram of witch 37% is free. Instead 120MB with 37% free

Honestly, I don't understand this either. I haven't tested, but if you install Manila on a ROM that didn't have it cooked in, I doubt the total memory would drop down.
I could only think this is a side effect of the video drivers (meaning the hidden memory is dedicated to the drivers which I'd understand), the other is that it's a bug that hasn't been properly explained/been looked over for some reason.
I'm no expert at ROM cooking by any means, but it definitely looks weird to me.

ahwell...
you have theese 2 in your settings/memory: Storage & Program
compare the official rom, with cooked rom, both storage and programs
edit:
forgot to mention, check out your settings/device information hardware tab.
and.... please report your findings here

dude i clicked start>settings>memory and it looks like this
Storage | Program
Total: 121.29 MB | Total: 84.71 MB
In use: 19.97 MB | In Use: 56.38 MB
Free 101.32 MB | Free: 28.33 MB

[email protected] said:
dude i clicked start>settings>memory and it looks like this
Storage | Program
Total: 121.29 MB | Total: 84.71 MB
In use: 19.97 MB | In Use: 56.38 MB
Free 101.32 MB | Free: 28.33 MB
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Itje told you already: check settings/device information.
The memory information is different from Rom to Rom and from language to language. My stock HTC german WM 6.0 Rom is reporting under "program memory" 100,77 MB, but under "settings - system - device info - hardware" its 128 MB Ram.
The difference is caused by drivers, the pagepool and other things. The more pagepool a rom is having the less total memory you will see. That means the polaris is having 128 MB Ram. But if the Rom is having 28 MB pagepool you will see in memory - program memory only a total of 100 MB. If you want to know details about pagepool please use search. You will find either in upgrading or in development some more details about the pagepool.
I checked now the new HTC 6.1 german Rom, the pagepool is 6 MB according to OM-BYs pagepool changer. As I did not flash it until now I have no idea about the total program memory, but I'm sure its not more than 100 MB because drivers are also needing RAM.

gerald_s said:
Itje told you already: check settings/device information.
The memory information is different from Rom to Rom and from language to language. My stock HTC german WM 6.0 Rom is reporting under "program memory" 100,77 MB, but under "settings - system - device info - hardware" its 128 MB Ram.
The difference is caused by the pagepool and other things. The more pagepool a rom is having the less total memory you will see. That means the polaris is having 128 MB Ram. But if the Rom is having 28 MB pagepool you will see in memory - program memory only a total of 100 MB. If you want to know details about pagepool please use search. You will find either in upgrading or in development some more details about the pagepool.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I think most of us (more often the case) knows about the pagepool settings. Just did not understand why the 32MB pagepool is chosen (in standard rom and most cooked roms) which anyhow do not give much performance adge.
Because of 2 main reasons, I went to use Bepe 0.67 cooked rom
1. it's using 12MB pagepool, that means I get 101.46MB program memory, currently disabled BioTouch.exe and loaded in the Manila2D myself, get to obtain free memory of 62MB. Fresh restart I get about 69MB free memory. All programs seems to be running smoother. I can use the phone for many days without the need to restart, though it's a common thing for WinMobile .
2. in the latest official rom, and many other recent cooked roms, I could not run IGO8 (HDD version), which is the best GPS program I have for the country that I am in. And IGO8 needs a lot of memory to run -> reason for me to upgrade from Trinity.
And the worst news is, I tried so many pagepool editor (many versions etc), none seem to be working to bring up my program memory from 84.7MB

s_john8686 said:
Well, I think most of us (more often the case) knows about the pagepool settings. Just did not understand why the 32MB pagepool is chosen (in standard rom and most cooked roms) which anyhow do not give much performance adge.(
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are right, most of us should know about pagepool. But apparently the thread starter didn't know it thats why I was explaining it once again.
BTW: I downloaded Syrius R1 from UDK, its using 6 MB pagepool, same as HTC stock rom. But maybe OM-BY's pagepool changer can not handle polaris roms and shows an incorrect pagepool size.
s_john8686 said:
Because of 2 main reasons, I went to use Bepe 0.67 cooked rom
1. it's using 12MB pagepool, that means I get 101.46MB program memory, currently disabled BioTouch.exe and loaded in the Manila2D myself, get to obtain free memory of 62MB. Fresh restart I get about 69MB free memory. All programs seems to be running smoother. I can use the phone for many days without the need to restart, though it's a common thing for WinMobile .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
62 MB free Ram with Manila is great, maybe I should try Bepes Rom

gerald_s said:
Itje told you already: check settings/device information.
The memory information is different from Rom to Rom and from language to language. My stock HTC german WM 6.0 Rom is reporting under "program memory" 100,77 MB, but under "settings - system - device info - hardware" its 128 MB Ram.
The difference is caused by drivers, the pagepool and other things. The more pagepool a rom is having the less total memory you will see. That means the polaris is having 128 MB Ram. But if the Rom is having 28 MB pagepool you will see in memory - program memory only a total of 100 MB. If you want to know details about pagepool please use search. You will find either in upgrading or in development some more details about the pagepool.
I checked now the new HTC 6.1 german Rom, the pagepool is 6 MB according to OM-BYs pagepool changer. As I did not flash it until now I have no idea about the total program memory, but I'm sure its not more than 100 MB because drivers are also needing RAM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thank you that is what i was after an explaination

[email protected] said:
thank you that is what i was after an explaination
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think for Polaris, 6MB pagepool means you will have 107MB program memory.
My Bepe 0.67 rom has 12MB pagepool and I get 101MB program memory. I really don't know where other missing memory goes, taking 128MB-12-?? = 101MB.
So it seems the reader you used to chk pagepool produced wrong information. That was what happen when I tried to use pagepool editor to reduce pagepool size.
But the program work fine on Trinity cooked rom.

guys,
i use M-Amine 2.0 RTM
and with alot of apps running, i have 37MB memory left
but honestly, i dont feel any different wether its 69MB or 37MB
in fact, i dont pay much attention on free memory and i dont realize that my program memory dropped to 84MB
maybe i'm just too exited with flashing new ROMs

I saw my version of Igo8 wouldn't launch if there is less than 45Mo Program memory left. But it launches even with .Net CEFramework V3.5 if it has 48-50 Mo left.
I guess the new build of Igo8 takes less RAM so it could be launched without desactivating M2D in today screen.
I use M-Amine 2.0 RTM.
Maybe Tabs removing in M2D could help freeing some ram too.

ROM vs Ext ROM vs RAM vs Flash

I've upgraded to Tomal 8.5 and now have the following stats on my home screen:
RAM : 24MB
ROM : 38MB
ExtROM : 10MB
Flash: 12MB
I used to have tomal 8.2 so am used to the flash disk and can see that ExtROM maps to a device named "Storage" but what is "ROM" for, is that free space i can use? This also adds to my confusion over Storage vs Program memory, it looks like ROM = "Storage Memory" and RAM = "Program Memory". Also when you install things it asks you if you want to install to the device or flash / sd card etc. Is "Device" ROM or RAM or some mysterious merging of the two?
ARGH!
What is all this stuff? Basically, where (pending my new 4GB SD Card arriving) should i install stuff? where should i save photos from the camera? Is some of it volatile and some of it non volatile? is ExtROM slooow and Flash fast? This is all a bit freaky

It's amazing what you can find in the wiki. There's tons of interesting answers to loads of questions. There's even a section called Memory Storage Types.

ok, i swear that page wasn't there an hour ago thank you