Database Users

HTC Mogul vs HTC Touch - Touchscheen hardware?

Okay,
So I am a power user, and that might be putting it lightly. When it comes to deciding between the Mogul and the Touch, I want the Mogul. Well, I DO want the Touch because its thinner, but I couldn't stand using a touch-screen keyboard with my fingers (or even worse, a stylus). I need a separate keyboard that doesn't take up any screen space while browsing.
What I'm curious about is this: Are the touchscreens on the Mogul and the Touch actually different? Forget dimensions etc., but i mean in terms of the technology, are they the same? If they are the same, then all the current hacks to try to turn the Mogul into a Touch-like phone will eventually (who knows how long) mature enough to work almost identically, is that correct?

madador03 said:
If they are the same, then all the current hacks to try to turn the Mogul into a Touch-like phone will eventually (who knows how long) mature enough to work almost identically, is that correct?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They are indeed the same, last I checked. There was a rumor that the touch would be multi-touch (ala Iphone), but clearly that wasn't true. The term "touch" merely relates to the suite of touch-centric software that actually sits on top of WM.
That's right, there's nothing fancy about the touch that you can't do with the same software. That software, I'd like to add, has already been extracted as .cab files that can be installed on virtually ANY WM5 or WM6 HTC pocket pc.
So, I don't know what this "maturing" is that you're talking about, or why you think it would be "almost" identical... its the same darned thing!!!
The stuff that's being developed currently is to take it beyond the touch, and more like the finger scrolling iPhone interface.
All of the stuff, I'd like to point out again, sits on TOP of Windows Mobile, meaning its just a program that can sometimes get in the way of how WM was actually designed to work.
Sometimes its convenient to have, but in general, I find any of the touch / finger / iphone add ons to be more trouble than their worth, and that goes for the ACTUAL htc touch as well!!

Dishe said:
They are indeed the same, last I checked. There was a rumor that the touch would be multi-touch (ala Iphone), but clearly that wasn't true. The term "touch" merely relates to the suite of touch-centric software that actually sits on top of WM.
That's right, there's nothing fancy about the touch that you can't do with the same software. That software, I'd like to add, has already been extracted as .cab files that can be installed on virtually ANY WM5 or WM6 HTC pocket pc.
So, I don't know what this "maturing" is that you're talking about, or why you think it would be "almost" identical... its the same darned thing!!!
The stuff that's being developed currently is to take it beyond the touch, and more like the finger scrolling iPhone interface.
All of the stuff, I'd like to point out again, sits on TOP of Windows Mobile, meaning its just a program that can sometimes get in the way of how WM was actually designed to work.
Sometimes its convenient to have, but in general, I find any of the touch / finger / iphone add ons to be more trouble than their worth, and that goes for the ACTUAL htc touch as well!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Um... please show me where I can download the touchflo interface that works exactly like the touch. All the versions I've gotten require the use of buttons instead of touch, and are extremely buggy. If you you know of a cab that gives the mogul all the touchflo features, by all means let me know...

my suggestion, if you have Sprint...wait
Sprint's versio of the HTC Touch is apparently due out in November. It'll be only a matter of time before someone extracts those cabs and/or creates a new touch-based, CDMA-based rom that can be more easily ported to the mogul.
I for one am interested in the new on screen keyboard interfacethe new touch is supposed to have...
I tried using the other method to get the home-brewed (button-based) touch, but I ran into a few problems and uninstalled.

Quick question.
Does or can wm6 support multi touch hardware?

The touch from sprint will have twice the memory (128mb ram) - i don't know about you guys, but I'm constantly filling up the supposed 64mb realistic 47mb really 17mb after cache/etc of memory that this device has...
-mark

Is the iPhone the only one with a multi-touch interface? What is the next phone that will have it?

PointUI HOME application

Have any of you guys given this a go yet? http://www.pointui.com/
Its a major improvement over the Standard windows mobile home screen and gives an easier to use interface with your finger.
No ROM cooking involved just install over the top of windows mobile 5 or 6. Its kinda like an improved today screen.
I downloaded it today and I have to say its made me alot happier using the phone without a stylus.
It has just been released and is free to use on any windows mobile device.
Take a look...
http://www.pointui.com/Home.aspx

But it doesn't support VGA devices?? - Mike

Shame it doesnt support true vga 96 dpi......however its really nice looking and i like imput/design ui a lot, wallpaper and color scheme should be user defined.

it does work in 96dpi, kind of, I think we need to resize one or two of the backgrounds to make it work well.
not gone through the jif files yet, I'm presuming it'll be one of those.

they got a fix for that now, a temporary one on their website

Hi,
I have installed this application but I didn't really like it the way I was expecting it to perform. The problem is, I can't get rid of it now. I have removed the program from remove program but it still shows the 'Home' option on the task bar.
Can anyone help me to remove this program?
Regards
SS

sachdes said:
Can anyone help me to remove this program?
Regards
SS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Go into the program - run 'Update' and one of the options is to remove. Arse about face I know but...

Hi
I am usining it on 128 and 96 dpi
Works fine but when putting in pin for fone the buttons have all tobe touched to see them and then use clear and then enter the pin as u can now see the buutons ???
Any way to fix this ???

good stuff, i like it here ,works good with my HTC PPC 6800

I think once finalized, this could indeed be a killer application for the Athena as it encompasses all areas usually only accessible through the native WM O/S, but in a much more stylish and finger touch pleasing way.

HTC Touch HD for business use

Everywhere is announced the HD is great because of its multimedia functions.
For myself I have NO USE for multimedia (except taking good pictures for my work). What I need is:
a) a big screen for reading email, html email and so on
b) a big screen for my pocket office excel sheets (the more row/column I can see the better)
c) a touch keyboard not too small
d) a slim and compact device (I think that this eliminates devices with phisical keyboard)
e) a device that fits comfortably in your pocket: doesn't weight "a lot"
f) the best quality possible for pictures, the ideal would be that it can take pictures of documents and that later you are able to actually read them, looking at the picture taken
g) gps included
h) EXCELLENT battery consumption: so that with a "normal" use you can EASILY arrive at night without the need of having chargers all over (car/house/office)
In your opinion is the Touch HD good for the purpose? Maybe something else on the market is better?
Thanks for any comment.
P.S. so far I had Qtek 1010, 2020, Universal (in my opinion the WORST phone I had because of its bulky size and short battery life), Tytn, Cruise.

It's absolutely definitely the best thing you can buy for business if you don't need a qwerty keyboard.
As you mentioned before it has a big screen for web, email and office and it's still slim and light enough to fit in your pocket.
Windows Mobile is the only OS to choose for business (besides Blackberry) and the HD has the second best camera in a Windows Mobile phone which is absolutely sufficient for taking pictures of documents.
There's no better device (if you don't need a querty keyboard).

Hi claudioita,
I have exactly the same needs, and I am still unsure whether to go for the Xperia X1 or the Touch HD. I like the big display and the thinner device, but I think that TouchFlo will be quite annoying after a while (I prefer to see the time/date and my next appointments when I look at my device, not windscreen wipers ...). The X1 seems to be more flexible in installing other panels. On the other hand, it is not so flat ...
Well, at least here in Germany both devices are not available at the moment, so I think we have to wait and see if we can get hands on them once they appear in the stores around.
Eriol

You can disable TouchFlo if you don't linke it but I think it's the best interface IMHO even better than the iPhone.

Eriol said:
Hi claudioita,
I have exactly the same needs, and I am still unsure whether to go for the Xperia X1 or the Touch HD. I like the big display and the thinner device, but I think that TouchFlo will be quite annoying after a while (I prefer to see the time/date and my next appointments when I look at my device, not windscreen wipers ...). The X1 seems to be more flexible in installing other panels. On the other hand, it is not so flat ...
Well, at least here in Germany both devices are not available at the moment, so I think we have to wait and see if we can get hands on them once they appear in the stores around.
Eriol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"I prefer to see the time/date and my next appointments when I look at my device"
The Touchflo Homescreen shows exactly that. and if you scroll down to switch to the advanced home screen, the clock becomes smaller and the list bigger, so you will see even more appointments. Alsom the screen on the X1 is smaller and as far as i have seen, you will have to use the stylus quite often In that case, the Touch HD is much better. The bigger Screen is also good when working on excel sheets and more. Also, the X1 is said to be a bit laggy sometimes when switching to landscape mode and back. I really recommend that you watch some videos about the interface.
oh and: there is a new "customize tab" feature on the HD. so you may be able to delete tabs and rearrange them

its a good phone but its based on the same hardware as the Diamond, so do a bit of guess work and some math and its power consumption can only be worse than the diamond, so unless battery is proportionaly larger its going to suck. I dont believe its going to have a larger battery than say around 1350 so to put it simply it'll last about 2 hours less than the touch Pro...

dazza9075 said:
its a good phone but its based on the same hardware as the Diamond, so do a bit of guess work and some math and its power consumption can only be worse than the diamond, so unless battery is proportionaly larger its going to suck. I dont believe its going to have a larger battery than say around 1350 so to put it simply it'll last about 2 hours less than the touch Pro...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep.
Exactly what I think. 3.8inch with that resolution ..... I won't buy it first. Will wait 1 or 2 months and check review on power consumption

Why not use a fold -up keyboard instead. You can leave in your briefcase and only take out when needed. This combination will ensure portability- thin and lightweight. Unlike the Uni which I also use.
Otherwise we should wait for the HTC Omni - if it will ever be launched!
Calli

calli said:
Why not use a fold -up keyboard instead. You can leave in your briefcase and only take out when needed. This combination will ensure portability- thin and lightweight. Unlike the Uni which I also use.
Otherwise we should wait for the HTC Omni - if it will ever be launched!
Calli
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your comments wiil be greatly appreciated
Calli

I have a bluetooth keyboard with my current PDA and will pass this onto the HD when it arrives. It is (for me) ideal, the phone is that bit smaller and I have almost full full-size keyboard when I need too.

claudioita said:
Yep.
Exactly what I think. 3.8inch with that resolution ..... I won't buy it first. Will wait 1 or 2 months and check review on power consumption
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am wondering the same since i heard of this device. But, i will definitly get this phone. I often heard that the diamond had a very bad battery life, but on the other hand, i have got an LG Viewty at the moment. This phone is said to have a very very bad battery. people even said it only lasts around 2 days without doing that much. many people wrote a bad review about this on amazon.
strangely, i use the viewty on a daily basis, for checking mails and writing sms or doing calls. so i even use hsdpa at least 2 or three times a day. and i can get a battery life of around a week!
But ofcourse, if i keep running on hsdpa the whole day, by browsing the net for hours for example i get have to plug it in the next day.
i really think that many people just use their mobilephones without ever thinking how much battery life is trained away, when they use gps, wlan and more the whole day. i am pretty sure that, with a normal usage, i can at least get a week or more out of the HD, as it has a better battery and higher standby and usage time as my viewty has got now.

btw, as you mentioned bluetooth keyboards.
are there any good devices out there? can you recommend some?
i am planning to use my Dinovo Mini for my Touch HD (i know it works) but maybe there are better keyboards out there

Business usability of soft keyboard
Hi,
I follow the discussions on a "Touch HD pro" version, but I am convinced that this would not be a good deal: The Touch HD's size is acceptable because it is really flat. A Touch HD pro would be at least as thick as an Xperia X1 or Touch pro. Thus, the whole device would be heavy and - for many users, I am sure - too big in all dimensions.
I wonder why all the videos we can see do not show the progress of a software keyboard in Toch HD. They all mention that "there is a software keyboard", but -well - we expect tghis, don't we? But: How usable is it?
I writing this because I am still unsure about Xperia X1, Touch HD (and may be Touch Pro). I really need a good argument for the keyboard question because I will need it quite regularly for emails. On the other hand, the Touch HD beats the Xperia in many other aspects ...
What do you guys think or know about the software keyboard?
Eriol

Eriol said:
Hi,
I follow the discussions on a "Touch HD pro" version, but I am convinced that this would not be a good deal: The Touch HD's size is acceptable because it is really flat. A Touch HD pro would be at least as thick as an Xperia X1 or Touch pro. Thus, the whole device would be heavy and - for many users, I am sure - too big in all dimensions.
I wonder why all the videos we can see do not show the progress of a software keyboard in Toch HD. They all mention that "there is a software keyboard", but -well - we expect tghis, don't we? But: How usable is it?
I writing this because I am still unsure about Xperia X1, Touch HD (and may be Touch Pro). I really need a good argument for the keyboard question because I will need it quite regularly for emails. On the other hand, the Touch HD beats the Xperia in many other aspects ...
What do you guys think or know about the software keyboard?
Eriol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
at the moment no one has the HD so noone can comment on this. biut irecommend that you go to youtube and look at some tests there. you can see how the keyboard looks and compare it to the diamond videos

Raziel1 said:
at the moment no one has the HD so noone can comment on this. biut irecommend that you go to youtube and look at some tests there. you can see how the keyboard looks and compare it to the diamond videos
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for this answer, well, I watched every and all videos about the HD on Youttube and other sites and in all avaliable languages (...). But I did not see any video that shows the soft keyboard in use (and esp. in landscape mode). All reviews I have seen stress the multimedia contents and the TouchFlo3D. For day-to-day business use, the keyboard is quite important, though. And I expect that there can be a quite useful soft keyboard implementation with such a big screen.
(BTW: Reading this forum, there are a lot of comments that make me think that the one or other must have seen the HD before posting comments! Some know many details that they can only know after having hands on the Touch HD!)
Eriol

Eriol said:
Thanks for this answer, well, I watched every and all videos about the HD on Youttube and other sites and in all avaliable languages (...). But I did not see any video that shows the soft keyboard in use (and esp. in landscape mode). All reviews I have seen stress the multimedia contents and the TouchFlo3D. For day-to-day business use, the keyboard is quite important, though. And I expect that there can be a quite useful soft keyboard implementation with such a big screen.
(BTW: Reading this forum, there are a lot of comments that make me think that the one or other must have seen the HD before posting comments! Some know many details that they can only know after having hands on the Touch HD!)
Eriol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i don't think so. all the details are out there since weeks. full hardware specs and all the features. there are many videos which show the keyboard and explain it a bit. but as it is the same as on the diamond or touch pro, theres no real change. i hope that you know that you can't use the keyboard in landscape mode. only if you install Gsen or Gyrator or how it's called.

Raziel1 said:
... i hope that you know that you can't use the keyboard in landscape mode. only if you install Gsen or Gyrator or how it's called.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Heck, no - I did not know that. I have a HTC Wizard at the moment running on WM6 and I surely can use the software keyboard in landscape mode with it (this also worked with WM5)! (Even though I do not use it because the Wizard has a hardware kbrd in landscape mode ...)
Why did they change this???
Eriol

Eriol said:
Heck, no - I did not know that. I have a HTC Wizard at the moment running on WM6 and I surely can use the software keyboard in landscape mode with it (this also worked with WM5)! (Even though I do not use it because the Wizard has a hardware kbrd in landscape mode ...)
Why did they change this???
Eriol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that was also in the diamond or pro. switching to landscape mode by using the g-sensor is only possible in opera and when viewing pictures. it should be possible to do it manually in windows, so what i ment was switching by using the sensor in touchflo3d. the good news is, that there are apps out like Gsen which activate full rotation in any app and window

Raziel1 said:
that was also in the diamond or pro. switching to landscape mode by using the g-sensor is only possible in opera and when viewing pictures. it should be possible to do it manually in windows, so what i ment was switching by using the sensor in touchflo3d. the good news is, that there are apps out like Gsen which activate full rotation in any app and window
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, understand ... so, installing Gsen and probably using a bluetooth keyboard if neccessary will make this device a good business solution (lack of TV-Out is not an issues to me as my experience is that in case of a presentation there will always be someone with a notebook around).
Eriol

Some specs show that there is a TV out. Far more impressive doing a presentation using your PDA though. I realy think that a software and a protable Stowaway keyboard is the way to go.
Calli

SO,How is XpErIa?

After using the device for last two weeks now i want to think does it really made us happy,if it's then how much? Haven't you guys think for a single moment that it is not worthy. Is there any real competitor or better out there?

i was actually skeptical in the beginning, but the more i use it the happier i get with it.

aaahhhhh................ I love this phone. i bought it this afternoon. i think te best thing about this phone is the 3,5inch jackplug (my last phone was a hermes with an mini usb audio plug GGGRRRRRrrrrrrrrrr!!! for 4 times i had to buy a new converter cable because of the crapy quality.)
For a phone with a qwerty keyboard it a pretty slim phone, not?
simply love this one!

i like it.
and i dont..
there are a lot of things that i would have like to see a bit different.
the software things i can change with time
not the hardware, so gues i have to get used to that.

boinger66 said:
i was actually skeptical in the beginning, but the more i use it the happier i get with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True
Very very happy...

anheuer said:
i like it.
and i dont..
there are a lot of things that i would have like to see a bit different.
the software things i can change with time
not the hardware, so gues i have to get used to that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I also own a Diamond and a X1 - I thought the SE would be an great evolution from the Diamond.
The Diamond was the revolution - a great phone. The SE is not really great in any way, however it's - quite good in everything.

I originally upgraded to the C905 but decided to changed it for the X1. So glad that I did as I'm loving it. Had it for 2 weeks now and I'm still finding out new things about it. It's my first WinMob phone so there's so much more you can do with it. Can't wait for more apps to be released and a system upgrade would be nice.

I'm even happier now i've given up on trying to use the TouchFlo CAB's.
I think if you embrace the phone interface as it was intended you'll get much more enjoyment from it.

x1 + tflo3d rulez... quick phone, quick gps, good wifi, hw keyboard needs only some time to get comfortable... I'm very happy

It's great, just... great
I had an Iphone 3G before so even if the screen is more little, the WVGA is great.
The battery is good, the keyboard is nice and at last I can use Real VNC or Remote Desktop to access my servers without a laptop and with a decent resolution.
And of course, it's fast.
There are still some problems (wifi password lost, BT disconnecting) but I guess it can be solved by an updated firmware.
But in the end, I just like it

The Xperia is my 4th. HTC device and the 2nd that I am happy with. The first was a Palm Treo 750W.
The other 2 HTC branded devices I have owned (touch Dual & Touch Diamond) were junk with poor support for any technical issues from HTC.
It appears to me that the major handest manufacturers like Palm & Sony who OEM thru HTC, actually specify, test and produce a much more professional product.
I certainly will never buy another HTC branded product again

The only gripe I have with it is the crappy signal, but that should be amended with a radio upgrade.

From a total package perspective, the X1 is a very good smartphone.
Sure there are some areas that needs more work, but they are not fatal and do not detract from the overall high quality of the device. It is well designed and well built, and the specifications are about one of the best in the market right now.
I am very happy with my X1, and is one of the better buys that I've made over the past year or so.

I'm not too happy with the panels. They are so slow and they are not even real representations of the screen. My appointments are all default made up ones and it takes like 5 seconds just to change from the fake panel to the real one. Panels don't even remember where you were in the panel which is retarded. For instances if I am on the main today screen of the SPB panel and i leave the panel and go back it defaults back to the programs page. There is not even a setting to make it always show the today page. Dumb. Also, there is no Start menu on the panels screen so I always have to select a panel just to select the start menu. STUPID.
Device is cool, but panels are not the reason. Who cares if I can move a bunch of fake panels around the screen in different ways if they are not even real representations of the screens just look the same all the time? Also, screen orientation does not change anywhere near instantly. Sure, faster then my old qtek 9100, but still not instant and has plenty of delays for some strange reason.

kiwiandy said:
The Xperia is my 4th. HTC device and the 2nd that I am happy with. The first was a Palm Treo 750W.
The other 2 HTC branded devices I have owned (touch Dual & Touch Diamond) were junk with poor support for any technical issues from HTC.
It appears to me that the major handest manufacturers like Palm & Sony who OEM thru HTC, actually specify, test and produce a much more professional product.
I certainly will never buy another HTC branded product again
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This I agree with you regarding the poor support of HTC even in Singapore. Before using the X1, I have tried out Diamond which is my first WM device and after Touch Pro launch, I switch to Touch Pro due to the lack of memory and laggy of the Diamond.
Touch Pro is a little better than Diamond as both are also using Touch Flo 3D and Touch Pro has little memory more than Diamond.
I have no regrets switching to X1 as it is a lot faster and responsive than HTC device as SE has a better after sales support in terms of service centre and phone support compared to HTC.
I don't think I will ever buy any HTC product in future too cos after sales support is important to me as there are no product which is perfect and problem free in this world.

contaygious said:
I'm not too happy with the panels. They are so slow and they are not even real representations of the screen. My appointments are all default made up ones and it takes like 5 seconds just to change from the fake panel to the real one. Panels don't even remember where you were in the panel which is retarded. For instances if I am on the main today screen of the SPB panel and i leave the panel and go back it defaults back to the programs page. There is not even a setting to make it always show the today page. Dumb. Also, there is no Start menu on the panels screen so I always have to select a panel just to select the start menu. STUPID.
Device is cool, but panels are not the reason. Who cares if I can move a bunch of fake panels around the screen in different ways if they are not even real representations of the screens just look the same all the time? Also, screen orientation does not change anywhere near instantly. Sure, faster then my old qtek 9100, but still not instant and has plenty of delays for some strange reason.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
dude you have failed to internalise the purpose of panels. It's a desktop profile based on the time of the day. You don't switch panels like you switch windows!
before you call the concept stupid, understand it first. Using it for wrong purpose is like buying a 2 door sports car for cargo delivery purpose and claim the car manufacturer stupid for designing the car that don't meet your needs!

I miss something between "very very happy" and "just about OK".
It's better that "just about OK", but it's not perfect.
I love the small overall size, the stylisch metal cover, the keyboard, the good standby time, the good performance, the big memory, the hi-res display, ...
But then again, the panels aren't that great, I miss some application buttons, the soft reset button location is plain stupid, the screen resolution causes troubles with some programs, the screen size is only just big enough, I miss an option to disable the optical DPad per application (it's great in many apps, but esp. in some games, it really sucks...), ... Mostly only minor things, but stopping me from being "very very happy"...

i m proud of using xperia

akechi84 said:
i m proud of using xperia
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Me too, it is so sexy and light compared to my previous Touch Pro, just like bringing out a BRICK.

contaygious said:
They are so slow and they are not even real representations of the screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The "screenshots" in the panel selection screen are only rough examples. They're really only something like "improved icons" for selection, and do not represent the actual contents.
Panels don't even remember where you were in the panel which is retarded.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The device does remember the last panel, if that's what you mean. Just press the red phone button to go back to that.
Though I admit it would've been a way better idea to return to the last panel with the panel button and then open the panel selection with another press of the button. Or even better, show the next panel after a short press and show the selection with a long press.
For instances if I am on the main today screen of the SPB panel and i leave the panel and go back it defaults back to the programs page.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's probably up to the panel itself. If SPB doesn't save the last panel contents, you can't blame the panel concept. For example, the SE panels do remember the selected blocks. But I think SPB wanted it that way, just like the Now screen in "normal" Mobile Shell always initializes with the same contents.
Device is cool, but panels are not the reason.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, but not (only) because of the reasons you named.
I think panels are more or less an unnecessary reprogramming of the Today screen (esp. the SE panel "blocks" would have made great plugins...).
With good plugins and a way to have more plugins than just the currently visible ones (e.g. with UltimateLaunch, PocketPlus, some SBSH plugins, ...), you get similar results way faster, more easy to handle, and using less system resources. OK, no nice 3D animations, but except for showing off they've got no use there, anyway...
Who cares if I can move a bunch of fake panels around the screen in different ways if they are not even real representations of the screens just look the same all the time?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As said, it's more like shuffling around hi-res icons...
Also, screen orientation does not change anywhere near instantly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Usually, it takes not even a second on my device.

will the lack of stylus be an issue?

while the gigantic 4.3" helps in making everything finger (or even foot) friendly, its still a windows mobile device. and many of the apps require some precision are written to be used with a stylus. i cant imagine using "Pocket Artist" or copy and pasting text using my finger on a WM device.
You guys think that this will be a problem with this device.

it's not a problem on the iphone, why should it be a problem on a device with a bigger screen? I don't remember ever using the stylus on my HD...never needed it. I don't expect I'll need it on this device either

twisted-pixel said:
it's not a problem on the iphone, why should it be a problem on a device with a bigger screen?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because iPhone applications are written on the assumption that they are being used on an iPhone without a stylus. Plenty of Windows Mobile apps are written on the assumption that you are using a stylus; this includes a number of utilities built into the operating system.

I used the Leo ROM on my Xperia X1 and can say as long as you stay inside windows (or said different inside the shipped software) you won't get any problems, its very finger friendly and I never went down to an old wm 6 skin. concerns are only there if you want to use some 3rd party software. there might be a problem with finger usage like said above or somewhere else as they don't have to be finger optimized.

Personally - I think it will be fine. Also with later revisions of WM6.5 and then hopefully WM7 I think the phone will get easier IF there are any issues. The issues will only occur when you come out of the HTC Sense layer anyway, which won't be that often.

I thought HTC patented the capacitive stylus?

Lack of stylus will not be a issue at all with that huge screen...I think. We see when its in our hands. Hope it will be very soon

I'm using a TyTN II and almost never dig out the stylus. Over time I moved to apps that were finger friendly. And with the current design trends, I'm guessing even more apps will become available that don't require a stylus.
-Bob-

12aon said:
I thought HTC patented the capacitive stylus?
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afaik yes but on no pics can you find where it is placed i think and then they will probably release it with a largish price tag like the car dock...

All of you who are using resistive screens with LEO ROM, your impressions are worthless (regarding how the LEO ROM will behave on the real HD2) because resistive screens are more accurate than capacitive screens, even if you use just your finger (not to mention you can still use fingernail with resistive).
HTC said that since the LEO has capacitive screen, it can not operate well without the new MANILA, and for that reason, they said that they didn't give an option to disable MANILA, and went even further to say that if some programer will try to disable it, they did everything they could in order for him to find it "very challenging".

Noam23 said:
All of you who are using resistive screens with LEO ROM, your impressions are worthless (regarding how the LEO ROM will behave on the real HD2) because resistive screens are more accurate than capacitive screens, even if you use just your finger (not to mention you can still use fingernail with resistive).
HTC said that since the LEO has capacitive screen, it can not operate well without the new MANILA, and for that reason, they said that they didn't give an option to disable MANILA, and went even further to say that if some programer will try to disable it, they did everything they could in order for him to find it "very challenging".
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What makes you say this? There have been plenty off leo roms out that seem to leave that function intact

Noam23 said:
All of you who are using resistive screens with LEO ROM, your impressions are worthless (regarding how the LEO ROM will behave on the real HD2) because resistive screens are more accurate than capacitive screens, even if you use just your finger (not to mention you can still use fingernail with resistive).
HTC said that since the LEO has capacitive screen, it can not operate well without the new MANILA, and for that reason, they said that they didn't give an option to disable MANILA, and went even further to say that if some programer will try to disable it, they did everything they could in order for him to find it "very challenging".
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I don't use my Touch Diamond's stylus, and the Touch Diamond has a much smaller screen so I think the huge screen of the HD2, coupled with the capacitive touch sensivity, should be fine.
And if that second bit is true, I'm surprised because that means they went to the trouble of making it easy to disable TouchFLO 3D and TouchFLO on older devices...

And if that second bit is true, I'm surprised because that means they went to the trouble of making it easy to disable TouchFLO 3D and TouchFLO on older devices...
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True, because the TouchFLO 3D and TouchFLO were sold on devices with *resistive* screens, these devices can handle Windows Mobile screens without any trouble. The HD2 on the other hand has the capacitive screen, and HTC knows that operating the WM UI with such device is going to be a problem, such a problem that no one even believe capacitive will reach WM before version 7.0, yet HTC came with the MANILA 2.5 solution, so I can very much understand them when they say they don't want you to defeat MANILA 2.5.

O2 are offering me this phone as an upgrade. I need a decent keyboard and am loathed to part with my TP2!
Does anyone have any experience of using any of the screen "keyboards" for emails etc? If so, can it really replace the hardware keyboard?

May be a silly question, I don`t know much about different screen types but cant you just use another stylus instead of your finger? I always have a pen/stylus in my pocket at work and never use the provided stylus with my HD

kjt57 said:
May be a silly question, I don`t know much about different screen types but cant you just use another stylus instead of your finger? I always have a pen/stylus in my pocket at work and never use the provided stylus with my HD
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You need a special kind of stylus for capacitive screens.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-CAPACITIV...ries_MobilePhoneBatteries?hash=item2ea897a251

Noam23 said:
All of you who are using resistive screens with LEO ROM, your impressions are worthless (regarding how the LEO ROM will behave on the real HD2) because resistive screens are more accurate than capacitive screens, even if you use just your finger (not to mention you can still use fingernail with resistive).
HTC said that since the LEO has capacitive screen, it can not operate well without the new MANILA, and for that reason, they said that they didn't give an option to disable MANILA, and went even further to say that if some programer will try to disable it, they did everything they could in order for him to find it "very challenging".
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Very interesting information Noam23. Being able to use a phone effectively with your finger most of the time when you have to use your finger all of the time is not acceptable to me.
I also have the same issue mentioned in your other post where I would want to turn off Manila/HTC-Sense. The fact that they've tried to prevent this proves how unusable WM6.5 is on a capacitive screen.
Oh well, that's just saved me a lot of money!

Can't help but think everyone is being a little binary here
The UI is the launch pad for the device ... It will be possible to disable TouchFlo3D. HTC were probably saying this to detract people from the ever present concerns with exposure to the native OS UI.
All the other apps you use on the device have their own UI. Once launched, it is almost (back to that in a moment) irrelevant what the OS UI is. The concern will be if those desktop class apps we love on WM in spite of WM itself are not easy to use on the HD2.
I don't see many apps I have that will be a problem ... infact, the only ones would be Resco Explorer, utilities like SKtools, data entry tools like Softmaker Office and PhatNotes (although I'll probably be ok with the on screen keyboard given the capacitive touch and size of display ... and for laptop 'replacement' use, I'll use the BT Stowaway keyboard and mouse) and drawing tools .... which some I'm sure want .... I personally (and therefore subjective) have never used them ... so it isn't an issue for me.
It is true to say that PI and Flexmail could do with more focus on touch ... and given the iPhone apps Alex was working on (I'm a little out of date) ... I'm sure that will come soon.
Also .. I'm not sure if it waning enthusiasm or a change of focus ... but having used PI extensively for years ... when using Mobile Shell 3 and things like PocketBreeze, I realised I rarely went to PI any more .... With FlexMail ... it is a superb product ... but it always had problems with storage ... and after the WM client supported HTML ... it was less needed ... with TF3D ... again ... makes it even easier ... so PI will remain for micro text month view and tasks ... FM will remain for when I need to do complex searches of mail (a real weakness of the native clients on all phones), but I will rarely touch them in normal daily use.
So ... although I resisted the 'hype' around capacitive ... and thought a stylus would always be needed .... in practice ... I'd like to get an HTC capacitive stylus if it ever makes it off the drawing board ... but I doubt I'll really need one.
I used to always want the keyboard ... but after having 4 TyTNs and 3 TyTNIIs respectively before I got one that didn't have some keyboard or mech / ribbon issue .... and the TP2 that had the loose mech issue ... I finally decided I wanted to simplify all mechanical bits ... so I'm looking forward to the HD2. I like others think the 5 buttons + the rocker will allow aebutton+ control where needed in older games.
And the benefit to the Capacitive screen for me will be a smoother more responsive touch (I'm not commenting of accuracy ... because no one that hasn't used it can really comment ... and they certainly can't comment on what it maybe like if and when the HTC Stylus comes out ... if it does) .... and it should also be less reflective ... and therefore clearer in different light conditions ... and it will have a harder surface ... which will (to me) feel better.
So in summary ... given TF3D or MS3.5 will cover most of the OS UI requirements ... as well as the front end to native apps which are touch optimised and most of the big apps I will use will be fine with their own UI ... I think the HD2 with it's display and external simplicity has hit the market at the right time and will in practise be more than fine for everyone happy with a device this size that doesn't need drawing apps on day one.
I also suspect that the internal 512M + a good fast 16 or 32 GB MicroSDHC will more than meet the requirements of the WM7 1 chassis .... and in a year or 18 months ... when I have itchy feet .... I will get a ROM from XDA .... that will rejuvinate the machine ... I can't say this for certain ... and no one at present can say it will or won't be a possibility ...
Mine is on order for Clove ... it is genuinely the first time I've been excited about a WM device since the TyTNII was announced ...

Moandal said:
Very interesting information Noam23. Being able to use a phone effectively with your finger most of the time when you have to use your finger all of the time is not acceptable to me.
I also have the same issue mentioned in your other post where I would want to turn off Manila/HTC-Sense. The fact that they've tried to prevent this proves how unusable WM6.5 is on a capacitive screen.
Oh well, that's just saved me a lot of money!
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Maybe you should try it before drawing any conclusions?
Really interested in seeing how Opera performs on the HD2 and whether or not clicking links is difficult.

It's easy to tap small links on the iphone, why should it be difficult on the HD2? All this "it won't be possible to use because of the capacitive screen" debate is just FUD, IMO.