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I have a question which puzzles me - perhaps the knowledgeable amongst us can answer it for me.
I have 2 devices, an Orange SPV M2000 (Blue Angel) and an O2 MDA Mini S (Wizard).
When I look at the device info I see this
........................................BA......................Wizard
RAM Size.........................128MB....................64MB
Flash Size..........................32MB....................128MB
Storage Size..................43.26MB.................47.46MB
When I look at the Memory Screen, the BA has 125.77MB main memory showing 62.88MB allocated to Storage and 62.89MB allocated to Program and a slider to alter the split of memory.
When I look at the Memory on the Wizard there is no slider and it shows 44.76MB allocated to Storage and 44.01MB allocated to Program.
Whichever way I look at it I cannot seem to make sense of the figures.
Can someone explain (in simple terms) what these figures mean and why there is such a dramatic difference between the RAM and Flash sizes on these two devices?
First the major difference between Blue Angel and Wizard. Blue Angel stores everything - your programs, data, etc. in RAM. It uses this same RAM for program memory. That's why you get a slider. It's also why, if your battery runs out or your reset it, you lost all your stuff. The Wizard, on the other hand, has memory dedicated for data/settings storage that's like flash memory (so you won't lose your stuff), and different memory for the RAM.
depending on the ROM/ExtRom/Radio Stack, etc. installed there's...
128MB total ROM
of which
44MB is available for storage of applications/user files
the rest is the operating system, extrom, etc.
and
64MB total RAM
of which
49MB is available for running programs/memory
the rest of which is the PIM running in the background, the phone running in the background, the radio stack running in the background, etc. All stuff that either the OEM or Microsoft decided you wouldn't want not running.
Thanks 'Z'.
Now it all makes more sense.
Sorry to resurrect a somewhat buried thread, but I was doing my research before posting by using the search function -- not bad for a newbie, eh? -- and ran across this thread which directly addresses some questions I've been dealing with, but I'd like to throw some stuff out to see if I understand completely.
As I understand it, the Wizard has 64MB of SDRAM, and 128MB of Flash storage memory, correct? On the developer.cingular.com it says 64MB Flash ROM and 128MB SDRAM which appears to be backwards.
On the device Memory manager after a hard reset and installing the Qtek 9100 customization .cab Storage shows Free 43.75 of 47.46MB and Program shows Free 27.18 of 44.01MB.
As I understand it, "Storage" is refering to the Flash non-volatile memory, and "Program" is referring to RAM, correct?
So this means that of the 128MB of flash memory, ~80MB is hidden, including the customization .cab. Of the 64MB of flash memory, more than half is taken up by OS, radio and other things.
Do I have that right?
Now, one more thing. If I drag a 5MB file onto the device, the storage in use increases 5MB but Program isn't affected. This makes perfect sense.
Syncing, however is a different story. A small test sync of email, contacts, and calendar uses 2.68 Storage memory but 3.7MB of Program memory.
I take it from this that when you sync, it writes the pim info to the flash memory but then also automatically expands it into system memory. Do I understand that correctly?
If I am correct, is there any registry hack or anything that can change this behavior? Would it really slow things down so much if your PIM info had to be taken out of Storage memory? Or am I missing something?
Thanks for any responses.
Gene
I hope no one minds that I bump this, it's been several days.
I'm fairly sure my basic understanding of the situation is correct: contacts etc are loaded into persistent memory (ROM) then loaded into system RAM as well -- I speculate to speed searches and such because RAM is so much faster than Flash memory.
However this has a drawback in that whereas a 64MB RAM-only ppc 2003 device was able to handle >5,000 contacts with ease, on the Wizard it takes almost all of the RAM.
I know it's possible to reduce the amount of RAM (and ROM for that matter) being used by other applications but I'm wondering if anyone has explored or figured out a way to keep the PIM info in ROM (registry hack, perhaps) until it's actually needed, and what the repercussions if any were, ie did it make using the pim info unbearably slow?
I have a question here. Why doesn't HTC put more flash ROM storage (maybe 1GB of flash ROM) into its mobile phone? Then we don't need external SD memory card.
I have a question here. Why doesn't HTC put more flash ROM storage (maybe 1GB of flash ROM) into its mobile phone? Then we don't need external SD memory card.
I'm sure they'll be increasing that in upcoming models. Only reason not to, typically, is to keep cost down a bit - and let the user add as much storage memory as they want; this is under the assumption that anything put on the storage card will work just fine, which is not the case with many applications :|
Hi everyone,
am quite new to these boards, and have only just got myself a secondhand xda IIs. In the last half a yer I have owned a HTC hermes, universal & kaiser but have finally settled on the BA because the design just suits me more. So far so good- am very happy!
I am a complete noob though and having just upgraded to WM6 from WM2003SE (following the WIKI guide & wizard) I am a bit puzzled about my phomnes' memory capacity and what goes where....
Reading over the forum I have heard how the reformating of exended rom (?) etc can increase your available storage to 128mb as part of the upgrade process. This I did with the unlocker and formatting tool. But upon upgradeing it seems I have only 64mb available for storage , but 100mb for 'programs'.... I am a bit confused. To make it worse when I load programs on the phone it actually reduces the storage capacity available rather than the 'program' memory- of which I have 75mb free that I can't seem to get at!! Can anyone please tell me what I am doing wrong or else point me in the direction of where I can educate myself about this? ....I know it is a very basic question, but am a complete novice to pdas since the last 6 months so please don't flame me!!
Thanks
Think of this in desktop computer terms.
Storage == hard drive
Program memory == RAM
explanation:
programs are installed to either storage or storage card. programs run using program memory.
hey tnx, i was looking for such info too tnx m8 for the help
Thanks! Crystal clear now!
one (or so) more quetion...
Hi- quick folow up question if anyone has the time to answer...
So I understand I have 64mb storage- but in WM2003 you could allocate how much to put to RAM & how much to put to storgae right? So therefore if I had lots of apps I wanted to load onto the phone and I needed more storage I could just reallocate. Was there not a way in the whole upgrade process to allocate less than 128mb to RAM so that I have more storage? I think I missed something here. If it is safe to have less than 128mb RAM i think I may go back and do the repartitioning thing again. Some advice would be much appreciated.
If so my question is why is it recommended to have 128mb RAM- would reducing it to less than that cause the phone to run too slow under WM6?? Is there a 'safe' guideline for minimum amount of RAM to allocate? Further clarification would be greatly appreciated! (As I see it I have lost some 'storgare' capacity this way, beecause programs excluded from the WM6 rom, eg powerpoint etc , be reloaded and so eat away at my new storage of 64mb)
I think you may have missed the point: storage is flash memory, program memory is RAM. The difference is that pre-WM5 flash memory held your vanilla system, Extended ROM, and the default (for hard reset). Everything else that you customised or installed went into RAM, which was therefore split between storage of programs and data and program memory. Remember how when your battery went flat your device lost everything? That's why, and why a backup battery was needed. WM5 and later devices do not need or have backup batteries.
Since WM5 all programs and user data are stored in flash: this can make performance slower but ensures that you survive a power failure unscathed. There are ways to get round the performance issues, compressing files with UPX saves space AND time because reading a smaller file from flash is obviously quicker, and expanding it in RAM goes very fast indeed. However I would not want to overstate the performance hit that you experience working from flash.
So this is why you have lost the ability to manage the memory split - it's nothing to worry about and indeed I am very pleased because my BA now has more program memory than my Hermes.
Hope this helps!
jbn
ssjw1000 said:
Hi- quick folow up question if anyone has the time to answer...
So I understand I have 64mb storage- but in WM2003 you could allocate how much to put to RAM & how much to put to storgae right? So therefore if I had lots of apps I wanted to load onto the phone and I needed more storage I could just reallocate. Was there not a way in the whole upgrade process to allocate less than 128mb to RAM so that I have more storage? I think I missed something here. If it is safe to have less than 128mb RAM i think I may go back and do the repartitioning thing again. Some advice would be much appreciated.
If so my question is why is it recommended to have 128mb RAM- would reducing it to less than that cause the phone to run too slow under WM6?? Is there a 'safe' guideline for minimum amount of RAM to allocate? Further clarification would be greatly appreciated! (As I see it I have lost some 'storgare' capacity this way, beecause programs excluded from the WM6 rom, eg powerpoint etc , be reloaded and so eat away at my new storage of 64mb)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In addition to jbn's answer above you can also use a ROM that has a RAMDISK. This takes a portion of the RAM and creates a folder that you can use as a filesystem. Many people prefer these, I do not. I use my SD card and my onboard storage and have no problems with space. If you decide to go with a RAMDISK enabled ROM beware that you will loose anything you install to that section of the filesystem if your batter and backup batter go dead. Exactly the same behavior you had with WM2003 in your BA originally.
Hi,
Previously i had a HP 6365.
and one could very easily choose if we wanted to increase the storage or program memory but moving a simple bar.
this is not present in 8525.
although it has 64MB RAM and 128MB ROM.
total storage shown is 44.77MB
and total program memory shown is 48.77MB (where is the rest??)
is there a way to adjust this??
because i have only 3.2MB of storage available and 19.5MB or program memory available, although i always store programs on the microSD.
pls. shed some light,
Thanku for reading and answering.
Regards.
That program memory is your Ram... If you could cut that down your Hermes would run A LOT slower... Use total commander or, if you have it, resco explorer to see whats in your program directory on the phone itself... Backup 1st, then cut and paste to the sd card and remake the shortcuts in the windows directory.. Please remember though that some programs NEED to be on the Hermes.
Also check in the My Documents directory. You should store as much on the sd card as possible but the default storage location is on the Hermes...
Moving as much off the device memory will give you more storage space, but remember, it is limited...
Cheers...
wow..
thats an excellent suggestion.
iam working on that advice.
also wanted to ask u one more thing.
my 8525 has 64MB RAM
then why is it that it only shows 48MB total under programs??
what i mean is shouldnt it be showing 64MB total available???
thanku very much for answering
No, because the OS is using some. Also the extra programs that were installed with the os use Ram too.
Cheers...
Hi all,
i've looked for that here but couldn't find anything.
My TD2 shows always only 188.50MB Ram but it must have 288MB or not?
And the storage of My phone shows also only 305.49MB?
Why is that so? and does anybody have the same problem?
ANd do you know how to correct it...
Thanks..
blovesm said:
Hi all,
i've looked for that here but couldn't find anything.
My TD2 shows always only 188.50MB Ram but it must have 288MB or not?
And the storage of My phone shows also only 305.49MB?
Why is that so? and does anybody have the same problem?
ANd do you know how to correct it...
Thanks..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sure there is Windows Mobile and other software installed... That takes some place...
Also opened programs, even running in background, needs memory.
So, nothing wrong...
i thought like that, too. But there is a space of used Memory of about the half always there... SO that I have Max. only 100MB free. I thought that WM and eg Sense would use this 88MB so that I have 100MB free.
So where are My other 100MB?
blovesm said:
i thought like that, too. But there is a space of used Memory of about the half always there... SO that I have Max. only 100MB free. I thought that WM and eg Sense would use this 88MB so that I have 100MB free.
So where are My other 100MB?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The moment that you have more than you need there is nothing to be worried about...
Maybe someone else can give you more details if it's so important for you.
Thats completely normal. No phones have all of their RAM free. Sense is a big hog, so if you turned that off, it would save you some. Then other things like pagepool and graphics memory take up a lot, too.
ok i understand that, but why doesn't it show than 100MB of 288MB is used?it only shows 100MB of 188MB.. thats whats annoying Me... Does it show the same on your td2?
no one there?
blovesm said:
ok i understand that, but why doesn't it show than 100MB of 288MB is used?it only shows 100MB of 188MB.. thats whats annoying Me... Does it show the same on your td2?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you talking about Storage Memory or Program Memory?
Storage = 272.24MB & Program = 175.44MB on my device.
Hope you can finaly sleep well now...
thanks.
I am talking about program Memory.
is that your free Memory or your whole Memory?
Thank you very Much
blovesm said:
thanks.
I am talking about program Memory.
is that your free Memory or your whole Memory?
Thank you very Much
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
my total program memory is 185.67MB
total storage is272.24MB
Sometimes when manufacturers give out specs for phones, they say total RAM and total accessible, and the TD2 has an accessible of around ~185 depending on ROM
There is confusion here so let's get the facts clear.
My Device info shows-
RAM size 288MB
Flash size 512 MB
Storage size 319.93MB
This is all total amounts of memory.
Then we have-
Storage memory
Total (as above) 319.93MB
In use 125.52MB
FREE 194.41MB
And the maths add up!
However, with all apps shut down, I get-
Program memory
Total 194.70MB (93.30MB less than the original RAM size above!)
In use 82.05
FREE 112.65
When the OS boots up it runs stuff that grabs the first 93.30MB of RAM for itself (at least in the case of my current ROM). This is very ROM dependent and 'lite' versions will use less than 'full fat' versions. If you have anything running and close it with say task manager then your available Program memory will increase. But, you can't close OS processes with such abandon. You'll get away with some, however, others will affect the functionality of the phone.
Storage memory is obviously where you install apps or store data/software of your choice. Anything run will then use available program memory in the same way as the OS processes.
What figures are other members getting?
thank you for your answer, you helped me. I thought that too. but what I still do't understand is:
However, with all apps shut down, I get-
Program memory
Total 194.70MB (93.30MB less than the original RAM size above!)
In use 82.05
FREE 112.65
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
when the 93.30 MB is already used for the ROM and WM, for what are the 82.05MB used when you have closed all progs...
I don't get that.. I know that WM and the Roms have to use some Memory... but so Much? when we add all that, there are 175.35 MB already used, when I just start the phone...
I started getting warnings on low "Storage Space" on my HD2. This is weired, since I keep my documents and apps on SD. I only installed few very small apps after flashing Energy ROM onto HD2.
I have checked memory allocation and it seams total memory is allocated towards Program and Storage (as in attached picture). I can see that free "Storage Memory" is rather low, but I am not sure on :
1.What is using it. When looking into File explorer, you can't see if the file is using Storage memory or Program memory. I even clicked on "Find large file using storage memory". It found many files, but all of them where on SD... so it should not cause the problem I have.
2. How to reallocate some memory allocated to "Program" into "Storage".
I have Android running from my SD, but I expect this should be only using memory on SD, right?
... and yes, it is very annoying, since it reminds about short memory every time I turn my phone on...
Same problem. 3 days I have HD2, I install Radio Leo 2.15.50.14 and Energy.Leo.29007.Sense2.5.Cookie.2.0.Dec.27 (576MB RAM) and I have:
Storage size (Total storage): 200,27 MB (Used 65,30)
Total program: 449,22 MB (Used 170,33 MB)
But after installing few apps I had only 20MB free space, but more 200MB free program RAM. But for program is enough about 50-80 free RAM, 200 MB is unnecessary...
On my Xperia X1 with 826x ROM i have Total storage 295 MB and Program 191,25 MB and it´s fine.
I´m trying some else ROMs, but not with better parameters.
Here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSsCdwY9ngM I can see 290MB Total storage, but which ROM is it??? Or is possible somehow transferred memory from Program (RAM) to Total storage?
The problem may be with hidden caches, as in temp. internet files.
I´ve tested about 20 ROMs, and I found 3 good ROMs with large internal storage.
Best looks me Chucks ROMs http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=618787
- Lite Chucky version (but lite for Chuck - has many program and utils) has 310MB Free
- Tabtastic has 251 free
both are in GTX (white) skin, but he has there links for some old ROMs, where are some dark ROMs
And 256MB free has http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=684646
But I only flash these ROMs, testing will come, but looks without bugs (I hope). ;-)
storage
mine using standard rom 3.14 supplied by htc.
just do some tweaks as suggested
application installed
garmin
tcpmp
opera 10
freda
task bar colour
google map
chteditor
cht
cleam ram
rar pocket
phm registry
cleartemp
nodata
wifi no standby
incall rec.
disable vsync sense
used storage 37mb
so far no bug at all. smooth n clean.
i noticed in window folder there is opera9 consumed 7.8mb.
how to delete this file?
fred_up said:
The problem may be with hidden caches, as in temp. internet files.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
not that I have used phone browsing a lot, but I could give it a try to clear those hidden caches. Any idea how?
TwinCZ said:
Same problem. 3 days I have HD2, I install Radio Leo 2.15.50.14 and Energy.Leo.29007.Sense2.5.Cookie.2.0.Dec.27 (576MB RAM) and I have:
Storage size (Total storage): 200,27 MB (Used 65,30)
Total program: 449,22 MB (Used 170,33 MB)
But after installing few apps I had only 20MB free space, but more 200MB free program RAM. But for program is enough about 50-80 free RAM, 200 MB is unnecessary...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the key questions are:
1. How to find out what files are using that Storage Memory. If I see that, I might figure out what I can delete.
2. How to reallocate memory from Program Memory to Storage Memory
ajocius said:
I think the key questions are:
1. How to find out what files are using that Storage Memory. If I see that, I might figure out what I can delete.
2. How to reallocate memory from Program Memory to Storage Memory
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course, you´re right, but:
1) too much work with unclear results
2) I didn´t find this answer (I think there is no way to reallocate memory outside ROM cooking)
So for me is simpler test ROMs and find the best, and the 3 ROMs above look usably...
I can't believe that cook like Energy, whos ROM's are used by most users would leave only memory for 2 new apps to be installed after fresh ROM... There is something either wrong in my understanding, or just needs some simple entry in registry or similar.
Common people
ajocius said:
I can't believe that cook like Energy, whos ROM's are used by most users would leave only memory for 2 new apps to be installed after fresh ROM... There is something either wrong in my understanding, or just needs some simple entry in registry or similar.
Common people
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not for 2 new apps, after flashing you have 130MB free, but after 5-7 apps and some ringtones I had 20MB. I have X1 with more 15 apps and same ringtones and I have 70MB free, thats enough, and same I want from my HD2. And I don´t understand, why Energy has after flash 200MB total and 66MB used, and Chucky´s ROM has 250-310MB total and 18-28 used. And same ore more apps and utils inside...
Have removed all apps via "manage applications" still low storage memory.... I will need new ROM as it looks... I have Energy ROM on my Pro2 device, and there I have 178 MB free storage memory. Go figure...
Energy ROMs I used all time on my Xperia X1 and there were wery good with enough free storage for me, so with these good experience first ROM which I install to my new HD2 was Energy too, but after I found the problem with low storage... So maybe the problem with storage is only for HD2, if you have on TP2 180MB free, this looks enough. ;-)
Now I have in HD2 ChuckyDexterDarkOne and I have 283MB Total, 172 Used (after install every apps and files which I want in Internal storage - after HR was used about 20MB only with a lot of apps and tools inside the ROM) and 111 free... ;-) NICE ;-)