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Hello everyone. First of all, let me congratulate all of you who have made this incredible site. I've been reading your threads for 3 weeks and finally i wanted to make my first post. I didnt wanted to be a stupid post so thats why it took me 3 weeks to make it.
I got my first Hermes 5 days ago (yes i searched for info about hermes 2 weeks before i got it) and it is everything i always wanted/needed.
I live in a city called Temuco in Chile (A southamerican country ) and this toys are very expensive even if its a 2 or 3 years old toy like hermes).
When i received my Hermes i was ready to flash roms and got everything to do it, thanks to you guys),
I'm very pleased with some of your roms and now im using [OPTIMIZED Manilla2d][20755 09/29](AlmostNak3d)(V8) by joshkoss.
The only subject that worried me was.................... Battery life, so i did some searching and thats my first post about. Hope you guys find it usefull. I know there are some battery related posts around but wanted to make some conclusions about the subject.
Here we go.
I've been searching and reading different articles about optimizing a li-ion and li-ion polymer battery, as they basically behave the same way.
In recent days i've been thinking a way to keep my battery life longer.
What i first thought, and without any knowledge, is what i've heard all my life: "A fast charged" battery lasts shorter than a "slow charge" battery.
In some battery chargers there are two ways to charge batteries. Slow and fast. And i always feel that slow charge was better than fast, so i thought.
My Hermes charger is 5V 1A.
If i charge my hermes through USB (Which i think has less than 1A) my battery should be "better charged" and the charge should last longer.
I never quite tested this but as a normal "battery user" it sounded more logical to me.
So i searched on google if there was any information about li-ion batteries and its characteristics.
I went to www.batteryuniversity.com and what i read astonished me.
Battery Conclusions
1.- Lithium batteries are completely different than older nickel based batteries.
2.- Lithium is a very unstable element and behaves abnormally when overcharging and overdischarging.
3.- According to batteryuniversity, "Overcharging makes the cell causes plating of metallic lithium on the anode; the cathode material becomes an oxidizing agent, loses stability and releases oxygen. Overcharging causes the cell to heat up. If left unattended, the cell could vent with flame."
4.- Over-discharging is as dangerous as overcharging. According to batteryuniversity, if discharged, "Copper shunts may have formed inside the cells, leading a partial or total electrical short. The cell becomes unstable. Charging such a battery would cause excessive heat and safety could not be assured."
5.- Lithium batteries are usually overcharge and over-discharge protected.
6.- You shouldnt use chargers different than the manufacturer's one.
7.- End of story and End ob battery thoughts.
I (we) just have to live with that.
The Li-on cells for my Makita tools are charged on a computer controlled charger. It reads temp and level of charge and charges accordingly. Manufacturers estimate 3000 charges before the battery is dead, and this after fast heavy discharge that can make a battery too hot to hold and fast charge that takes 22 minute on a 3ah batttery from fully flat to fully charged.
The people who use Li-on at the edge of their accepted use, the radio control flyers, use computer controlled chargers that read the same parameters and more. Many of their chargers read individual cells and balance the charge. Again, after use, the batteries can be too hot to hold.
In a phone or a laptop we use a wall wart the same as any old nicad. I dont know if any clever stuff goes on inside the laptop or phone to regulate charge level according to battery condition but I don't think so. We get about a year out of a laptop that is trickle charged. I'm on almost 2 years for my Tytn with no discernable drop in life but I think I've been lucky, it seems to be about a year for many people. So that's 365 charges, approx.
My guess is that it's charger technology rather than battery technology that limits our battery life.
The Hermes does have a battery sensor. It can be screwed up though when you go below a certain level (<10%), hence people who have trouble recharging a TOTALLY flat battery. The Hermes sensor doesn't detect a battery giving a red LED.
I don't know anything about battery...
I'm currently have a problem with a battery or power-related. My X01HT have just 1 day life in use. I was try it with different second-hand battery, but it likes first condition when only life in 1 day. Hmm.. may be which is the wrong? The battery or the phone?
I have 2 set of X01HT, next time I will try to exchange the battery from both of it. I want to test their battery life to compare and make conclusion about which is the wrong between the battery or the phone.
My tested phone have radio version 1.14.01.10 and have unlocked with NextGenServer. I am using the newest Pays ROM Full. IPL: 1.04. SSPL: 2.60 (Olipro). I have experienced using Pays ROM in twice, first which already sold and the second is this case. Both of the have the same radio version. I think the first one is okay about the life stability, but this one have a problem. May be ROM have influenced the battery life? Or may be IPL/SSPL have caused instability too?
Sorry guys, about poor in English. May be I need to make a thread to share my problem with you.
Thanks.
Hermes are battery hogs but some programs can be power leeches too.
If the radio rom isn't good for your area it also can be a power drain as it is constantly scanning for connection.
I tend to find about 2 days is all my battery lasts for with a little bit of use. Depends what you are using....
Cheers...
I have 3 pieces of SoftBank X01HT.
One of them just fine in the life of the battery, so network here is fine too (maybe). But this one is already sold, so I can't test the battery to my another X01HT which have a critical power problem.
Another X01HT so sleepy, the life of the battery just 1 day. I was try to replace the battery with another battery (2ndhand and I don't know the condition actually) but it have no change, just 1 day too, may be less... Now I try the third battery. I'll reported soon about this...
So how about your opinion about critical power in the X01HT? May be there is another factor beside the battery? Beside the program/OS? May be some physically probelm with their board or etc?
Sorry about poor in English.
I can't say much about the X01HT... All Hermes internals should be the same, but they may put extra things in or take things out depending where you buy your Hermes.
So saying, the Hermes, if not all HTC phones, seem to use a large amount of power. If you use apps it will of course discharge faster.
Sometimes it can be as simple as changing the radio rom but this is risky as the radio rom tends to be permanent brick if something goes wrong with the flash.
Maybe an app you have running and don't realise, I had a BT program that did this, had to shut it down or my battery was down to 70%in about an hour or 2.
Cheers...
Hello All,
First, let me just thank everyone on these threads for all the knowledge they have imparted to me! Thank you!
Now to my question: If I have my charger with me, is it best to keep the evo on and connected to a power source as often as possible? Or is it better to charge it once until the battery is full and then not plug it back in until the battery flashes the "battery low" message?
A friend and I were having a disagreement over this question and we couldn't think of any reasonable way to answer this question. I know that between our two MacBooks, which I understand might have a completely different type of battery, mine definitely gets much more battery life and I am convinced that this is because I have it constantly plugged in (though again, I'm not sure that this is true).
I will greatly appreciate your input on this matter!
Thank you.
http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm
Check this Thread http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=694441
For the record:
Simple Guidelines
Avoid frequent full discharges because this puts additional strain on the battery. Several partial discharges with frequent recharges are better for lithium-ion than one deep one. Recharging a partially charged lithium-ion does not cause harm because there is no memory. (In this respect, lithium-ion differs from nickel-based batteries.) Short battery life in a laptop is mainly cause by heat rather than charge / discharge patterns.
Batteries with fuel gauge (laptops) should be calibrated by applying a deliberate full discharge once every 30 charges. Running the pack down in the equipment does this. If ignored, the fuel gauge will become increasingly less accurate and in some cases cut off the device prematurely.
Keep the lithium-ion battery cool. Avoid a hot car. For prolonged storage, keep the battery at a 40% charge level.
Consider removing the battery from a laptop when running on fixed power. (Some laptop manufacturers are concerned about dust and moisture accumulating inside the battery casing.)
Avoid purchasing spare lithium-ion batteries for later use. Observe manufacturing dates. Do not buy old stock, even if sold at clearance prices.
If you have a spare lithium-ion battery, use one to the fullest and keep the other cool by placing it in the refrigerator. Do not freeze the battery. For best results, store the battery at 40% state-of-charge.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
(via above source)
Thanks!
We all know that the One (and many other modern cellphones) have a Lithium Ion battery. While these batteries have no traditional 'memory effect' the way NiMH did, it seems that different chemistries for the electrolyte would suggest different strategies for recharging.
For example, after looking at the Wikipedia entry for Lithium batteries, it would seem that we should be mindful about 'topping off' the battery, because charging deteriorates the lifespan, implying that running down the battery might be a more advisable practice than plugging in to fully charge every night.
Wondering if any of you experts out there can comment and discuss, given that we One users no longer have replacable cells.
Good question, I too would be very interested in hearing from some of the posters that are knowledgeable in this area.
Sent from my HTC EVO 3D X515m using xda premium
This is pretty well established knowledge right now. I'll list everything pertinent about lithium ion batteries and charging smartphones:
Edit: Note that I mention Lithium Ion in this post, but the HTC One uses Lithium Polymer. They are for all intents and purposes equal in terms of their usability, except for slightly less charge cycles
Edit 2: Hello Reddit! No idea this would have taken off. I'm "coolmatty" on reddit. This is an overall generalization, and there are plenty of resources that go into more detail. Places like Battery University are great sites to start.
1. Charging is what reduces the life of a lithium ion battery. Batteries are usually rated between 700-1000 charge cycles while keeping 90% of their capacity.
2. Charging 0-100% counts as one cycle. Charging 80-100% 5 times counts as one cycle.
3. Leaving your phone on the charger after it is charged has the potential to reduce battery life, although this is less of a problem with newer devices as they often disconnect the charging circuit until the battery drops below ~95%. Generally only an issue if you leave it on the charger for 24+ hours.
4. Lithium ion batteries do not require any conditioning.
5. Most lithium ion devices arrive with ~40-50% battery life remaining, because this is the optimal charge level to store a lithium battery for long periods (such as sitting on a store shelf for months).
6. Slower charging maintains the battery's overall lifetime capacity better than fast charging. This is likely why the HTC One does not have Qualcomm's Quick Charge enabled. It's debateable whether you'd notice the effects over the typical lifetime of a smartphone, however (2 years).
7. Not exactly related to lithium but just in general: smartphones (and tablets, etc) have charging circuits that only draw a certain amount of amps regardless of the number of amps the charger provides. Using a 3.1 amp (tablet-level) charger is not going to significantly increase the speed at which your phone charges. Most phones only use between 0.8 - 1.2 amps. Anything over that is overkill.
8. Storing a lithium ion battery at 0% is really bad for its lifetime capacity. Running it to 0% generally isn't recommended all the time, but a few instances won't hurt it.
9. Recharging from 0-100 doesn't make your battery run longer. It can, however, reset Android's battery level stats so that it can more accurately state the battery level.
10. Charging from ~95% to 100% takes a long time because it must do a trickle charge. Maxing out the battery like this can reduce overall lifetime capacity, but generally not enough to matter. You'll see this impact more often in larger applications of lithium batteries (like cars).
You have no idea how many people need this post (on some points, myself included). Thanks.
Vincent Law said:
2. Charging 0-100% counts as one cycle. Charging 80-100% 5 times counts as one cycle.
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Click to collapse
It does not seem to be that uniform, according to this:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
From what I understood from the link above in Table 2, you can get the best longevity by charging from 50% (2nd row).
jasahu said:
It does not seem to be that uniform, according to this:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
From what I understood from the link above in Table 2, you can get the best longevity by charging from 50% (2nd row).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But is it practical to charge it at 50% every time?
Doesn't the one infact have a Li-Po battery ? Would these points still apply ?
Nyxagamemnon said:
But is it practical to charge it at 50% every time?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What is a practical approach for me now, after reading this all, is to charge it every night.
This way
- I have better chances for not running out of battery during the day
- either it was at 75% (3rd row) or 50% (2nd row) I still have better longevity than charging from 0% most of the time.
Battery life will not degrade as long as you donot empty its charge for long time and donot use it while on charge... over heat on battery aged the battery...
Sent from my GT-I9082 using xda premium
Just wanted to add: li-ion and li-po batteries now-a-days have protection circuitry to prevent overcharge and over-discharge. Overcharge protection based on what is stated above, known as trickle charge. Over-discharge protection means that your phone will shut off when your battery is around 3v per cell, whereas you should refrain from force starting the phone. The only benefit you get from fully charging/discharging is battery calibration for cell mismatches. It is also good to know that partial charges are better than full charges when it comes to lithium ion (and lithium polymer) batteries.
The HTC one uses li-poly, not li-ion
Can read all about the advantages and disadvantages of each other here:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/is_lithium_ion_the_ideal_battery
li-poly
Advantages
Very low profile - batteries resembling the profile of a credit card are feasible.
Flexible form factor - manufacturers are not bound by standard cell formats. With high volume, any reasonable size can be produced economically.
Lightweight - gelled electrolytes enable simplified packaging by eliminating the metal shell.
Improved safety - more resistant to overcharge; less chance for electrolyte leakage.
Limitations
Lower energy density and decreased cycle count compared to lithium-ion.
Expensive to manufacture.
No standard sizes. Most cells are produced for high volume consumer markets.
Higher cost-to-energy ratio than lithium-ion
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Click to collapse
As far as I am concerned, li-poly is overall better for phones where you can't change the battery.
by the looks of that article it was done quite a while ago (for the tech. world) so the disadvantages might not be as much of a problem these days.....
jasahu said:
It does not seem to be that uniform, according to this:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
From what I understood from the link above in Table 2, you can get the best longevity by charging from 50% (2nd row).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was using a simplification. It would be better not to let it go to 0, but most charge cycles are rated on this. I do mention the impact of letting the battery go to 0%.
Miketoberfest said:
Doesn't the one infact have a Li-Po battery ? Would these points still apply ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A flub on my part, you are correct. There are minor differences (the only one that matters to us is slightly shorter lifetime capacity) but otherwise it works the same.
Now that i see a battery 'expert', a quick question.
Back in the dack, if you bought anything with batteries, you would have to charge them for 24h, no matter how much charged they were. But if i were to buy a phone today (Lith-Ion), Do i still have to do that?
I think not, but i'm not quite sure. Lots of people (even smartphone sellers) still recommend charging it 24h, wich i think is bull.
Bartcore3 said:
Now that i see a battery 'expert', a quick question.
Back in the dack, if you bought anything with batteries, you would have to charge them for 24h, no matter how much charged they were. But if i were to buy a phone today (Lith-Ion), Do i still have to do that?
I think not, but i'm not quite sure. Lots of people (even smartphone sellers) still recommend charging it 24h, wich i think is bull.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that was only for the old Ni-MH batteries as they had to be bedded in as such. The newer ones dont need this
Vincent Law said:
This is pretty well established knowledge right now. I'll list everything pertinent about lithium ion batteries and charging smartphones:
1. Charging is what reduces the life of a lithium ion battery. Batteries are usually rated between 700-1000 charge cycles while keeping 90% of their capacity.
2. Charging 0-100% counts as one cycle. Charging 80-100% 5 times counts as one cycle.
3. Leaving your phone on the charger after it is charged has the potential to reduce battery life, although this is less of a problem with newer devices as they often disconnect the charging circuit until the battery drops below ~95%. Generally only an issue if you leave it on the charger for 24+ hours.
4. Lithium ion batteries do not require any conditioning.
5. Most lithium ion devices arrive with ~40-50% battery life remaining, because this is the optimal charge level to store a lithium battery for long periods (such as sitting on a store shelf for months).
6. Slower charging maintains the battery's overall lifetime capacity better than fast charging. This is likely why the HTC One does not have Qualcomm's Quick Charge enabled. It's debateable whether you'd notice the effects over the typical lifetime of a smartphone, however (2 years).
7. Not exactly related to lithium but just in general: smartphones (and tablets, etc) have charging circuits that only draw a certain amount of amps regardless of the number of amps the charger provides. Using a 3.1 amp (tablet-level) charger is not going to significantly increase the speed at which your phone charges. Most phones only use between 0.8 - 1.2 amps. Anything over that is overkill.
8. Storing a lithium ion battery at 0% is really bad for its lifetime capacity. Running it to 0% generally isn't recommended all the time, but a few instances won't hurt it.
9. Recharging from 0-100 doesn't make your battery run longer. It can, however, reset Android's battery level stats so that it can more accurately state the battery level.
10. Charging from ~95% to 100% takes a long time because it must do a trickle charge. Maxing out the battery like this can reduce overall lifetime capacity, but generally not enough to matter. You'll see this impact more often in larger applications of lithium batteries (like cars).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks Vincent. Great post will certainly bear it all in mind when charging my phone.
Sent from my HTC EVO 3D X515m using xda premium
ragingredbull said:
Thanks Vincent. Great post will certainly bear it all in mind when charging my phone.
Sent from my HTC EVO 3D X515m using xda premium
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Click to collapse
I'm not sure everyone noticed one of the things he said. I know from my HD2 and Ruby that HTC phones will not continue charging after hitting 100%. The phone will indicate %100, but shortly after you disconnect the charger and start using the phone the indicated power level will drop to what it actually is - and it will be lower depending upon how long it has been sitting at "100%". Their phones have a protection circuit that kicks in. So if you really want 100% in the morning, power the phone down to charge it.
Bartcore3 said:
Now that i see a battery 'expert', a quick question.
Back in the dack, if you bought anything with batteries, you would have to charge them for 24h, no matter how much charged they were. But if i were to buy a phone today (Lith-Ion), Do i still have to do that?
I think not, but i'm not quite sure. Lots of people (even smartphone sellers) still recommend charging it 24h, wich i think is bull.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I mentioned in my first post, Lithium batteries do not require conditioning. The purpose for this on old Ni-Cad batteries was to avoid the memory effect, which could result in a battery appearing to be dead long before it actually was. For instance, if you always charged it from 60%, after many instances of this, the Ni-Cad battery would suffer a voltage drop at that point, which most electronics can't handle (some can, however, and once past the short period of low voltage, they will recover and continue normally).
Charging for 24 hours is most certainly not relevant, as once the battery reaches 100%, charging has ceased anyway. There's no need to charge it to 100% anyway, other than to give you more time to play with your new toy
---------- Post added at 01:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:41 PM ----------
stevedebi said:
I'm not sure everyone noticed one of the things he said. I know from my HD2 and Ruby that HTC phones will not continue charging after hitting 100%. The phone will indicate %100, but shortly after you disconnect the charger and start using the phone the indicated power level will drop to what it actually is - and it will be lower depending upon how long it has been sitting at "100%". Their phones have a protection circuit that kicks in. So if you really want 100% in the morning, power the phone down to charge it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You'll see this in most devices nowadays. It's especially noticeable on laptops, which typically won't lie to you about the charge. It depends on the models, but I know Macbooks for instance will happily sit at 95% charge as "fully charged". This is by design and other than turning off the device, you shouldn't try to "top it off". Any other method (such as unplugging and plugging it back in) hurts the overall lifetime of the battery.
Vincent Law said:
...
You'll see this in most devices nowadays. It's especially noticeable on laptops, which typically won't lie to you about the charge. It depends on the models, but I know Macbooks for instance will happily sit at 95% charge as "fully charged". This is by design and other than turning off the device, you shouldn't try to "top it off". Any other method (such as unplugging and plugging it back in) hurts the overall lifetime of the battery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most of the modern laptops allow you to turn on or off the battery saving feature. For those who use the laptop while plugged in most of the time, it will stop charging at 80%. For those who will be using it off the plug, the option is there to get it to 100%.
I often see posts from people (in various forums) asking why their laptop will only charge to 80%...
stevedebi said:
Most of the modern laptops allow you to turn on or off the battery saving feature. For those who use the laptop while plugged in most of the time, it will stop charging at 80%. For those who will be using it off the plug, the option is there to get it to 100%.
I often see posts from people (in various forums) asking why their laptop will only charge to 80%...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've never heard of this, and I don't recall seeing it on any Windows or Mac laptop I've used recently. Sounds like some proprietary crap one of the manufacturers came up with. Stopping the charge at 80% doesn't make much sense, since you'll still have the issue of constantly recharging the battery (as soon as it drops below 80%).
Edit: I will say that it is marginally better than keeping it at 100%, but that said, there's steps you can take on your own that are much better.
The ideal way to use a laptop that will be plugged in for most of its lifetime is to discharge it to about 45%, and then remove the battery entirely. At that point, the battery can maintain its capacity for months without major issue. Just make sure to recharge it once every 3 months or so, as the battery will discharge (slowly) even while unplugged, but at a far slower rate than it would be inside the laptop.
Vincent Law said:
I've never heard of this, and I don't recall seeing it on any Windows or Mac laptop I've used recently. Sounds like some proprietary crap one of the manufacturers came up with. Stopping the charge at 80% doesn't make much sense, since you'll still have the issue of constantly recharging the battery (as soon as it drops below 80%).
Edit: I will say that it is marginally better than keeping it at 100%, but that said, there's steps you can take on your own that are much better.
The ideal way to use a laptop that will be plugged in for most of its lifetime is to discharge it to about 45%, and then remove the battery entirely. At that point, the battery can maintain its capacity for months without major issue. Just make sure to recharge it once every 3 months or so, as the battery will discharge (slowly) even while unplugged, but at a far slower rate than it would be inside the laptop.
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Click to collapse
The latest research from the Auto manufacturers is that Li-Ion technology works longest if the battery level is between 50 and 80%.
My Toshiba U925 ultra portable uses the optional 80% max. If you use the laptop almost exclusively while plugged in, it will help provide battery longevity, or so I understand.
Many laptops won't work unless the battery is in place. It depends on how they built the power circuits.
I'm wondering if the heat I hear about being generated before the charging rate slows down after 50% would have any negative impact on battery life. Would there be any benefit in using my multi-port charger for overnight charges when I am not in a hurry to charge the battery?
Also, I assume that the battery doesn't have any memory, and that there's no reason to break it in, fully discharge periodically, etc. and that it's okay to charge a little or a lot regardless of the current charge state. Is that correct?
This is a question i would like to know the answer to as well
I did a slow charge last night and the battery seemed to discharge s little slower this morning fwiw, but that's not terribly scientific.
Sent from my XT1575 using XDA Free mobile app
There's already a thread for this. No, it doe not harm battery life.
Darnell_Chat_TN said:
There's already a thread for this. No, it doe not harm battery life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Could you please point me towards that thread? I didn't locate it with a few search combinations. Thanks.
Mississip said:
I'm wondering if the heat I hear about being generated before the charging rate slows down after 50% would have any negative impact on battery life. Would there be any benefit in using my multi-port charger for overnight charges when I am not in a hurry to charge the battery?
Also, I assume that the battery doesn't have any memory, and that there's no reason to break it in, fully discharge periodically, etc. and that it's okay to charge a little or a lot regardless of the current charge state. Is that correct?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fast Charging Lithium = Battery damage. It's basic chemistry. The cells take mechanical damage from expanding too quickly. So, for best longevity, charge her with like a .7 to 1 amp charger.
Locklear308 said:
Fast Charging Lithium = Battery damage. It's basic chemistry. The cells take mechanical damage from expanding too quickly. So, for best longevity, charge her with like a .7 to 1 amp charger.
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Click to collapse
wrong. the only thing that damages cells is charging beyond the voltage specifications. How fast you dump electrons in has no negative effects, its only when you put too many in that batteries get damaged.
Locklear308 said:
Fast Charging Lithium = Battery damage. It's basic chemistry. The cells take mechanical damage from expanding too quickly. So, for best longevity, charge her with like a .7 to 1 amp charger.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you. I had thought the same thing. No one had the time to give me any detailed information, so I researched. I can't post links, but the following articles are helpful and will show up first in a search for the title
'Will speed chargers kill your battery?'
'BU-401a: Fast and Ultra-fast Chargers'
A conventional phone charger can only supply the current and voltage that is safe for a battery at all charge levels. In other words, it is must use the least common denominator. Quick Charge makes this process much more active by monitoring max current, max voltage, and temperature so that it can supply more power when it is safe and less power when it is not. Quick Charge will always keep the current, voltage, and temperature within the battery's designed specifications.
In terms of battery memory effect, no, modern lithium based batteries do not have any sort of memory-like effect. This is mostly associated with older and cheaper NiCad type batteries. This is one of those things that people seem to have a really hard time moving past.
People worry far too much about babying their battery.
Assuming you are going to use the phone for ~2 years then a properly designed fast charger should have a negligible effect on battery life. After 2 years of continuous usage all bets are off whether you used a fast charger or not.
If you really want to worry about how to treat your battery then there are two things you should try not to do. Don't let the battery go all the way to 0% and let it sit like that for a year. Don't leave your phone on your dash in direct sunlight everyday. Outside of those two things there's not much you can do to change the lifetime of your battery so just use the damn thing. =P
dalingrin said:
A conventional phone charger can only supply the current and voltage that is safe for a battery at all charge levels. In other words, it is must use the least common denominator. Quick Charge makes this process much more active by monitoring max current, max voltage, and temperature so that it can supply more power when it is safe and less power when it is not. Quick Charge will always keep the current, voltage, and temperature within the battery's designed specifications.
In terms of battery memory effect, no, modern lithium based batteries do not have any sort of memory-like effect. This is mostly associated with older and cheaper NiCad type batteries. This is one of those things that people seem to have a really hard time moving past.
People worry far too much about babying their battery.
Assuming you are going to use the phone for ~2 years then a properly designed fast charger should have a negligible effect on battery life. After 2 years of continuous usage all bets are off whether you used a fast charger or not.
If you really want to worry about how to treat your battery then there are two things you should try not to do. Don't let the battery go all the way to 0% and let it sit like that for a year. Don't leave your phone on your dash in direct sunlight everyday. Outside of those two things there's not much you can do to change the lifetime of your battery so just use the damn thing. =P
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly.
dalingrin said:
A conventional phone charger can only supply the current and voltage that is safe for a battery at all charge levels. In other words, it is must use the least common denominator. Quick Charge makes this process much more active by monitoring max current, max voltage, and temperature so that it can supply more power when it is safe and less power when it is not. Quick Charge will always keep the current, voltage, and temperature within the battery's designed specifications.
In terms of battery memory effect, no, modern lithium based batteries do not have any sort of memory-like effect. This is mostly associated with older and cheaper NiCad type batteries. This is one of those things that people seem to have a really hard time moving past.
People worry far too much about babying their battery.
Assuming you are going to use the phone for ~2 years then a properly designed fast charger should have a negligible effect on battery life. After 2 years of continuous usage all bets are off whether you used a fast charger or not.
If you really want to worry about how to treat your battery then there are two things you should try not to do. Don't let the battery go all the way to 0% and let it sit like that for a year. Don't leave your phone on your dash in direct sunlight everyday. Outside of those two things there's not much you can do to change the lifetime of your battery so just use the damn thing. =P
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I had researched the topic and learned what you have stated, but I really appreciate you taking the time to write this fuller explanation. I wished to take every reasonable precaution to maximize battery life, given the battery is not easily replaced.
There have been references published claiming that charging faster (higher current) shortens overall Li-Ion battery life.
Mechanism may be related to heat.
One thing the Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0 (used in the Snapdragon 808) does is increase voltage at the charger from standard USB 5V, to 9V and 12V, for higher charge rates (power) at still-moderate current (to keep heat dissipation down).
I measured 1.1 to 2.3 amps at ~9V with QC 2.0 charger on the MXPE, with the higher current measurements at lower State of Charge (SoC). Have not seen 12V yet, but I only tried it down to 45% SoC (2.3 amps at 9V), I imagine it bumps up to 12V when the battery is discharged further, nearer to complete discharge.
This charger is rated for
5V, 4A
9V, 2.22A
12V, 2.5A
20V, 1.0A
So the max power fed to the battery would be 28W (12V*2.5A).
(This is the Power Partners PEAW30-12-USB, supposedly a 30W charger. So much for integrity in advertising.)
So the current is kept to a manageable level to control heat dissipation (therefore max temperatures), from the charger to (somewhere in the phone). But I believe that at the battery itself, more rapid charging (higher power) would still require higher current, because voltages have to be limited in the battery itself, so one would think heat dissipation (> max temperatures) would still be a problem in the battery itself. Does that shorten battery life?
The answer is probably: Who cares. Because: Li-Ion batteries have a 2-3 year life in any case, regardless of their service life or even if they are not used at all. They age and exhibit substantial capacity decline over time. Discharge/charge cycles hasten the capacity decline, but the battery is only good for 2-3 years, give or take, no matter what. And since aftermarket replacement batteries are inferior, unsafe, and stale, there is no reason to try to hang on to your phone for more than 2-3 years in any case. (Especially since the "non-user-replaceable" batteries can be a pain in the a** to R&R. The Moto X Pure 2015 battery is one of those. Some phones actually incur permanent damage to seals if the battery is removed/replaced - the Kyocera Hydro Wave is this way.)
You say "but you could replace the battery with an OEM battery". There are two types of OEM Li-Ion phone batteries on the market that an individual consumer can buy retail, when their phone is 2 years old or more: Used stale batteries (look up "reverse logistics"), and "new" (i.e. not put into service yet) stale batteries. Good luck finding a fresh, new OEM Li-Ion battery for your 2 year old or older phone (out of production for at least a year).
Been down this road before. Wasted lots of time and money replacing phone batteries after 2-3 years. From now on I'm going to stop coddling phone batteries, stop replacing them after 2-3 years, and just figure on a new phone every 2-3 years. It's the only way to get a fresh, new Li-Ion phone battery. (And get the phone right when it is released, like the MXPE this month. That way you are more sure the battery is fresh.)
I think everything in the wireless phone paradigm is increasingly heading that way anyway. Everything, and I mean everything, pushes the market to a 2 year product life cycle. Batteries last 2 years. Increasingly, batteries are not made to be replaceable. Carriers are changing networks so fast you need a new phone every 2 for that alone. New OS/SW overloads hardware older than 2 years. Displays may fade over a couple years. USB connectors wear out. Just relax and go with it. Marvel at the Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0 (I am). You'll be happier with a new phone every 2 years.
Sorry for the long rant.
Sorry for the kind of off topic, but it's kind of related... is it okay to use other devices with the included fast charger? I just hate having 2 micro usb chargers plugged in, when I could use just one
Sent from my XT1575 using XDA Free mobile app
crash613 said:
Sorry for the kind of off topic, but it's kind of related... is it okay to use other devices with the included fast charger? I just hate having 2 micro usb chargers plugged in, when I could use just one
Sent from my XT1575 using XDA Free mobile app
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Yes, the Moto Turbo Charger can be used with any MicroUSB charging device. It will adjust charging as needed for the individual device. Moto made the Turbo Charger, to be a single charger for all MicroUSB devices.
If the battery is kept well charged, which Turbo Charging helps to accomplish. That's better to me, than more drain and slower chargers that leave the battery more drained overall. The batteries are supposed to last longer when kept fully charged more often.
crash613 said:
Sorry for the kind of off topic, but it's kind of related... is it okay to use other devices with the included fast charger? I just hate having 2 micro usb chargers plugged in, when I could use just one
Sent from my XT1575 using XDA Free mobile app
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"...since Quick Charge 2.0 is compatible and interoperable, a certified adapter can be used with a non-Quick Charge 2.0 device, though the fast charging benefits of Quick Charge 2.0 will not be available. "
https://www.qualcomm.com/products/snapdragon/quick-charge/faq
By all appearances, Motorola's "TurboPower™ Charging" is nothing more than Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0. (That's what Snapdragon 808 in the XT1575 uses.)
The third-party Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0 chargers I bought are recognized as "Turbo" and function with the XT1575, just like the Motorola charger that came with the XT1575.
(There are a LOT of Qualcomm-certified QC 2.0 chargers for sale by third-party names. Qualcomm has been BUSY. )
To slow charge a S7, do we have to turn off fast charging from the settings and then charge via the charger that came with the phone(the so called fast charger) or should we use a charger from an old phone say SIII etc.?
Does this hold true for Motorola's phone also which have turbo charging option?
Also how to measure battery cycles? Any credible app for the same?
billubakra said:
To slow charge a S7, do we have to turn off fast charging from the settings and then charge via the charger that came with the phone(the so called fast charger) or should we use a charger from an old phone say SIII etc.?
Does this hold true for Motorola's phone also which have turbo charging option?
Also how to measure battery cycles? Any credible app for the same?
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Moto doesn't have the option in settings, it uses industry standard Qualcomm Quick Charge standard rather than a OS hack like Samsung (no offense)... If it is connected to a QC 2.0 charger, it will negotiate the appropriate charge rate, if it is connected to a "standard" charger it will charge normally.
I don't think you can accurately measure battery/charge cycles... even if you could it would be extremely deceiving, what would be considered a cycle? Charging at 50%, 30%, 10%, and to what point 75%, 80%, 100%? Too much room for interpretation here that could be swayed either way depending on the person/app counting it's point of view.
acejavelin said:
Moto doesn't have the option in settings, it uses industry standard Qualcomm Quick Charge standard rather than a OS hack like Samsung (no offense)... If it is connected to a QC 2.0 charger, it will negotiate the appropriate charge rate, if it is connected to a "standard" charger it will charge normally.
I don't think you can accurately measure battery/charge cycles... even if you could it would be extremely deceiving, what would be considered a cycle? Charging at 50%, 30%, 10%, and to what point 75%, 80%, 100%? Too much room for interpretation here that could be swayed either way depending on the person/app counting it's point of view.
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Thanks for replying dear. So, for S7 I have turned off fast charge, should I now charge via the charger that came with the phone(the so called fast charger) or should we use a charger from an old phone say SIII etc.?
For Moto G, the question is the same as above.
Of the little what I have understood from various threads here is to charge the battery when it is between 20-40% to 80-90% if you want to have a good battery life. I used to do the complete opposite charge, when the battery is at say 6-7% and charge it till it is maxed. I used to do the same for my laptop, any other tip for the battery?
And I have signed your petition Brother. I hope they listen to the users.
billubakra said:
Thanks for replying dear. So, for S7 I have turned off fast charge, should I now charge via the charger that came with the phone(the so called fast charger) or should we use a charger from an old phone say SIII etc.?
For Moto G, the question is the same as above.
Of the little what I have understood from various threads here is to charge the battery when it is between 20-40% to 80-90% if you want to have a good battery life. I used to do the complete opposite charge, when the battery is at say 6-7% and charge it till it is maxed. I used to do the same for my laptop, any other tip for the battery?
And I have signed your petition Brother. I hope they listen to the users.
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Does Fast Charge hurt the battery life, no, at least not directly... heat does. Using an older style charger will avoid Quick Charging but I think that foregoing that benefit for a few more days of battery life is hardly worth it. I frequently have 30-60 minutes to charge, not 3-5 hours, so quick charge is nice, if it takes few days off the longevity of the battery so be it. Those who think it cuts the battery life by 20, 30, even 50% are wrong, that simply isn't the case because of Fast Charge itself.
The Moto G isn't an issue here, it doesn't support Quick Charge until the 4th generation, but why give up the feature?
I don't think the "rules" of charging apply as much as people think they do... I charge mine overnight and whenever it needs it during the day, if it does. There is no need to do anything special.
acejavelin said:
Does Fast Charge hurt the battery life, no, at least not directly... heat does. Using an older style charger will avoid Quick Charging but I think that foregoing that benefit for a few more days of battery life is hardly worth it. I frequently have 30-60 minutes to charge, not 3-5 hours, so quick charge is nice, if it takes few days off the longevity of the battery so be it. Those who think it cuts the battery life by 20, 30, even 50% are wrong, that simply isn't the case because of Fast Charge itself.
The Moto G isn't an issue here, it doesn't support Quick Charge until the 4th generation, but why give up the feature?
I don't think the "rules" of charging apply as much as people think they do... I charge mine overnight and whenever it needs it during the day, if it does. There is no need to do anything special.
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Thanks for the wonderful and detailed reply. I am going to try, not stick, to slow charging to see the difference in heating of the battery. My SIII's charger 's input is 150-300VAC, 50-60 hz 0.15AA, output- 5.0V-1.0A and S7's details are input 100-240V 50-60hz 0.5A, output- 9.0V= 1.67 A or 5.0V=2.0A. Can I use the S3's charger to charge S7 after turning of fast charge or is there a voltage difference or something? G4 is at home, don't know about its details. Also in my country the battery or the replacement parts are way too expensive.
Using always connected to Charger?
For long term battery health I wouldn't recommend keeping it plugged in for long periods of time. People say today's batteries have protective circuits that prevent overcharging, but I don't really trust this. So I simply unplug it as soon as it is fully charged.
As for actual better battery life, turn off everything you don't need - GPS, Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, Mobile Data etc. This phone should give you an average of 6 hours SOT. To obtain more you will probably need a custom kernel, but even then the results may vary.
Yeah it has protection circuit to protect overcharging. Lithium based batteries can always take charge, and might self-combust. (ok , worst case. basically, lithium can't get in contact with water. RH in air is just enough to start the self combustion reaction). Nowadays, Li-ion or Li-Po are well made, and this is less problematic.
This as been said, it doesn't mean that this circuit won't trigger the battery every 0.XXX% drop, which is not good, so yeah, until someone do electric reading test on the op5, I won't suggest to let the device plugged in when full.
Simple rules for lithuim based batteries :
- time will kill the battery, even if it's brand new sealed. (normal chemical reaction). Nothing we can do here, limit extreme temperatures, not too cold not too hot.
- heat will decrease battery life and capacity. This mean, dash charging will decrease life. So, 1.2A to 2.0 [email protected] charger is more appropriate. Even if dash tech will regulate the charge, you still have a time that it will optimize to max power, so more heat.
- Polarity direction changes will decrease life/capacity. This mean, do not charge it if you don't need to.
- do not wait to drain it at 0%, I don't know what is the security factor from OnePLus. A single lithium based batterie under 2.60-2.75V, will mostlikely be dead , or will loose more than 50% of his capacity.
Some lithium based battery will perform better, but to keep low price, do not worry, oneplus use standard li-po.
More developed info here :
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
When the phone is plugged, it doesn't use the battery anymore, therefore the battery is not drained. Once it reaches 100%, it just stays at 100% until you unplug it.
Some says that leaving the charger plugged is not ecological, because it still uses energy even if it doesn't charge anything, but in reality it hardly use energy. I don't remember the numbers, but it is really insignificant.
In the end, there are a lot of superstitions concerning charging and battery life, most coming from old habits and false/outdated information spreading through the internet. The only things very true is that you should avoid letting your battery going to 0%, and don't let your battery overheat, and that's all. Charge when you please, as long as you please, and avoid using low-cost chargers or batteries as some can be dangerous.
I used my Xiaomi Mi3 for 3 years, letting it plugged every night with a QuickCharge charger, and it could still handle a whole day when I finally sold it.