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I think all of you have seen this.. Free program stats from around 25 Mb and keeps on going down even if you completely kill the processes. is there a tool which actually kills the resident dlls and other crap in memory.. Please advice.. i want to get out this habbit of soft reset after couple of days just to bring my memory back up where it belongs ;-)
Cheers
Zobie
Yeah, leaking memory is also one of the very few things I hate on my Wizard
I also would like to know if there is a Memory Cleaner that works like it should and not only kills open programs.
Had problem also. But the Internet Exploder was to blame. I had the history settings to 30 days. Which is the default. Back to 0 days and everything was hunkydory again.
I had problems with memory too. I had less than 1MB of storage memory left. So I went from a custom 2.17 ROM to Mr. Clean AKU 2.3 and changed the Registry setting for IE as follows:
; IE Cache to storage card
[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\Shell Folders]
"Cache"="\\Storage Card\\Temporary Internet Files"
I've used this ROM for a week now with lots of programs. I have an average of 25 MB of storage free and the system is fast.
I have experienced no problems whatsoever.
If i don't even open the IE will it still be a memory hog?? i don't understand that.. I can understand that if i use IE all the time it will cause problems but if i don't even use it why woud my memory drop with time. Cans omeone please explain. I am not trying to offend neone here but just wante dto know. I can definitely try the reg settings. Please let me know.
Thanks
Zobie
Don't confuse ROM with RAM and storage with program mem. I think the topic starter referred to his RAM mem becoming less every day, resulting in low program mem and slow operations, needing a reset to clear the RAM and speed up the device.
The IE cache is stored in ROM and will only fill your storage but not slow down your device.
memory leaks are unfortunately a standard issue with PPC devices, I have always suffered from them on both WM 2003 SE and Wm5 devices. For me a soft reset now and then clears it up, but I find it an annoying "feature" as well.
I think like Windows its the In Memory DLLs which are the culprit. I wonder if there can be tools for detailed view of memory for Xp why not WM5.
BUMP !!!
zobie said:
I think like Windows its the In Memory DLLs which are the culprit. I wonder if there can be tools for detailed view of memory for Xp why not WM5.
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What are the "In Memory DLL's"? Never heard of such a thing.
The memory that slows your device is the addressable application memory, which is a total of 32 MB. You cannot change that or add to it.
Think of it as the same as the Virtual Memory (VM) in Windows XP on your desktop. Every application you open reserves a bit of this virtual memory. Some apps willingly give it up when they close - some that are not as well written do not. A soft reset when you see the device slowing is about all you can do.
My only other advice is that skinned applications - particularly Today screen plugins - use up this addressable memory very quickly. This includes Wisbar Advance2, PocketBreeze and iLauncher, and any weather program. If you are running these, you will always have similar issues. Find an acceptable mix of skinned apps that you must have, and try doing without the rest just to see how it treats your device's memory.
And if you want to see what processes are running, and how much memory they are using, try MemMaid by Dinarsoft or SK-Tools. Great programs.
Amen. I wonder how much is held in reserve by the system in case you start the app again? Real Windows has been doing that for a long time, I wouldn't be surprised if micro Windows did it as well. Kind of reminds me of years ago when NT would report how it actually used memory and the end result was there was almost zero bytes "free" because all memory was always used for something, it didn't let anything sit around doing nothing. But since users didn't get it, MS wrote the taskman and so on to report something as "free memory" even though it wasn't really free. Finally, a lot of apps were designed to hide, not close, when you select the "X". If one of those task manager apps just blows the app away, does it bother cleaning up after the app which wasn't given the chance to clean up after itself by closing correctly?
markgamber said:
Amen. I wonder how much is held in reserve by the system in case you start the app again? Real Windows has been doing that for a long time, I wouldn't be surprised if micro Windows did it as well. Kind of reminds me of years ago when NT would report how it actually used memory and the end result was there was almost zero bytes "free" because all memory was always used for something, it didn't let anything sit around doing nothing. But since users didn't get it, MS wrote the taskman and so on to report something as "free memory" even though it wasn't really free.
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Take a look here to learn about what you really see in task manager regarding memory/cpu usage.
http://tinyurl.com/l57w8
Finally, a lot of apps were designed to hide, not close, when you select the "X". If one of those task manager apps just blows the app away, does it bother cleaning up after the app which wasn't given the chance to clean up after itself by closing correctly?
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Depends on which task mamger you are using; some use the WMClose command instead of the Kill command. Big difference!
Tools Like Memmaid SK-Tools don't allow you to identify rouge elements in memory which nolonger have a parent process running. It is those elemts which eat up the memory. I have SPB tools to actually close the application but even then the memory keeps on falling. I guess there is no tool as of today like Taskmanager or even RAM Optimizer for PPC. A Tool like RAM Optimizer would check for the elements which are residing in RAM and are no longer being used. XDA developers can surely write something using the .NE Framework.
J-Mac said:
Depends on which task mamger you are using; some use the WMClose command instead of the Kill command. Big difference!
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Do you happen to know of a couple that use the WMClose command? I've used HandySwitcher most recently and MagicButton in the past, but have no idea which method(s) they use.
Thank you.
Geoffrey
There must 40 threads on this topics by now. I concur with J-Mac that today plugins are mostly to blame. I use Journal Bar and perform a soft reset roughly every other day. To help the situation I also use 2 programs which I find invaluable - The first is Smartskey which allows you close a program rather than minimise it (its a free download on this forum). The second is SK Tools Free up RAM application which works reasonably well but only delays the enevitable soft reset. It's effectiveness decreases the longer the device remains active.
What is up with the memory drain on this device. I'll start the day with 24mb of memory (soft reset) and only have 10mb or less at the end of the day with no apps but activesync running. Has anyone less notice this?
hansolos said:
What is up with the memory drain on this device. I'll start the day with 24mb of memory (soft reset) and only have 10mb or less at the end of the day with no apps but activesync running. Has anyone less notice this?
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Yea I get the same problem. Except I start off with about 20 and end up with as low as 9 before i'm forced to soft reset.
Its the magic of the Mogul's memory leak. The old rom and new rom feature it so untill a new update comes out, were stuck with it.
Does the Hermes and Kaiser have the same issue? They seem to be similar. They other thing is that the WM6 is suppose to have made those apps that leak in previous versions run at the kernel level.
my titan doesnt have the issue. its an app you've got installed. hard reset and dont install anything, you wont have the problem. troubleshooting 101. dont blame the titan.
I posted this on another forum discussing this problem, so I'll just quote myself here:
The memory "leak" thing is nothing more than a cache "optimization" in place to make the device respond snappier.
Whether it succeeds or not is another story altogether...
Basically, like any cache, it stores recent calculations for faster response later. For example, if you open and close IE alot, you might notice that the first time you open it on a fresh restart takes a little bit longer than the next times- that's because the second time you start it up, parts of it are still in memory from the first time!
You might be wondering why this happens even after forcing it closed with Xbutton or the memory settings. That's because the info stored in the performance cache aren't directly related to any one program! Many apps can use the same routines and calculations, and therefore this process exists on a processor/file system layer as opposed to a software layer, and therefore also exists even when all programs are closed!
Meaning, if I have mapopolis that uses a certain routine to access my BT GPS receiver, even after I close it, some of that routine stays in memory because perhaps Google Maps will use the same routine, and therefore respond faster!
Now, ideally, this should speed up performance, and it SHOULD disappear on its own if the memory is needed and the information goes "stale" (hasn't been processed in a while = not really needed for optimized perfomance). However, one look at the way Microsoft handles "automatically closing apps" (native X button, anyone?) is enough to know that WM can't manage its own memory very well.
I can, however, vouch for the fact that the longer you leave all programs closed, the more of your memory starts to creep back into available. I've sat and watched this happen. So, it sort of works, but perhaps not well enough if people are having low memory system crash problems.
Now, before you all start blaming MS for this... Its not Microsoft's problem. They developed CE-5 (which WM6 is based on) on machines limited to 32MB to make sure the programmers didn't get lazy with OS bloat.
Its the manufacturers who add all this file system optimization and stuff to their final device. In this case, its the way HTC thinks the system should run, which is why this anomaly is NOT as apparent on, say, a WM Treo device.
The good news is that if we complain enough, HTC might realize this optimization does more bad than good, and leave it out on the next ROM update for us.
However, truth be told, I think it works. The Mogul is one of the snappiest PPC's I've used of late, although I can't say for sure if its because of the cache or not.
This is just my personal opinion, so don't flog me! I just don't look at the memory useage anymore unless I'm having a problem, which mind you, I hardly do.
My most recent observations were this:
Soft reset gives me ~21MB (got some htc plugins), and after a day of use, making sure to close everything after I'm done, I get 18-19MB. At lowest, I hit 10MB after closing alot of apps. This memory usually comes back to 18-19mb in a matter of time for me. If for some strange reason it doesn't (can't say how often this happens), I soft reset.
All in all, I'm happy with the Mogul.
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I wasn't blaming the Titan directly, although I wish they would allow you to adjust the memory like they have in the past. But as I've read that may having something to do with chipset of battery consumption.
I was just wondering if others had the same issue and might know of the reason.
Is there a list of known apps that cause memory 'drain' or don't clear their cache. I can understand apps caching data into memory to run faster, but they are not cleaning themselves out upon exit. The strange thing is how they continue to grow over the course of the day with no interaction.
I'm doing a hard reset to see if it get better. Add apps one at a time until I find an issue.
Ok did a hard reset. Setup Outlook to get my mail from Exchange and Gmail. Let it get synced and then did a soft reset. Started with 24mb after reset, down to 21mb without doing anything after an hour and it's still falling. The only thing running is ActiveSync. I've also removed htc_cm_guardain and ssdaemon from the startup. The only thing in startup is poutlook.
The thing I noticed when I had handyswitcher installed (before hard reset) was that filesys, device, gwes, services, shell and cprog all continously increased there memory consumption over the course of a few hours and never stopped or released it.
hansolos said:
I wasn't blaming the Titan directly, although I wish they would allow you to adjust the memory like they have in the past. But as I've read that may having something to do with chipset of battery consumption.
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No no no... the reason you used to be able to select storage vs RAM was because it was SHARED memory! It was actually all RAM. If you had a 64MB device, that 64mb was split between ram and storage, and just like the rest of your RAM, it would wipe out when the battery died!
Ever since WM5 came along, they stopped sharing the memory, and now have dedicated RAM and Storage (using the leftover space on the EPROM chips used for the ROM image), much like a computer. This is a much better solution since you don't sacrifice your RAM for storing some large files, and you don't have to worry about battery failure cleaning you out!
Also, its not the apps that have cache, its the file system. The file system WILL actually free up some of that memory as the device is left with all apps closed for a while (maybe not all of it, but I've watched my device go from 11mb free after closing stuff to 18-19mb).
You guys need to hit the easy button on this one! It may not be a permanent fix, but there's a small freeware called Oxios Hibernate that releases RAM. I just put it on my start menu and 2 clicks....I have free RAM. Try it out, you won't be disappointed.
bam, thanks for the info... that little app rocks.
use a file explorer and go to \Windows\Startup. There is a shortcut there for a program along the lines of HTC_Guardian_cmsomething. This app is a htc app used to enforce sprint settings and runs in the background. So long as you don't destroy your phone internet settings you can just remove the shortcut. I found all my memory leak issues have gone away. I don't have any leaks when using the kaiser tab plugin.
Yes I've removed the links for HTC_Guardian and SSDaemon from startup and added them to my settings folder (if I ever need them). I soft reset to around 25mb and the Oxios Hibernate app keeps me around 24.5mb.
what does SDdaemon do?
sddaemon is suppose to be the speed dial or voice command app you get when you hit the button on the left side with the talk bubble. It loads the app if you hit the button, so I'm not sure why they have it in startup.
On my old Treo 700W, which REALLY had a memory problem, I used Oxios hibernate all the time. It works quite well.
yes, it works.
bam099 said:
You guys need to hit the easy button on this one! It may not be a permanent fix, but there's a small freeware called Oxios Hibernate that releases RAM. I just put it on my start menu and 2 clicks....I have free RAM. Try it out, you won't be disappointed.
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you know what might help...if windows mobile had some sorta sorta disk caching feature...
that's what is causing the memory leak.
great tips. thanks.
hansolos said:
Yes I've removed the links for HTC_Guardian and SSDaemon from startup and added them to my settings folder (if I ever need them). I soft reset to around 25mb and the Oxios Hibernate app keeps me around 24.5mb.
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For some reason, I don't see too many complaints about low memory issues - yet I have always had problems with my RAM.
I have almost all of my programs installed on my SD card to try reduce any of my memory usage - but if I run PIE, MSN Messenger, or try to play music, I almost always have low memory messages come up.
I usually have one program running in the background - Slide to Unlock - but as far as I know its not that memory intensive?
Any insight on how I can fix this?
Thanks!
Are you running an elf or an elfin? If your not sure.....go to start-->settings-->system-->device information-->hardware. What does your RAM size read? If its 64MB its an elf.....if it says 128MB its an elfin. Your saying you've installed all your applications on the storage card. How much free space do you have for program memory on your phone? Your phones needs free memory in order to run applications too. Perhaps its running low on that end? Two things you should do:
1. Move any extra files, photos, videos or anything else that you might have saved on the phone memory to the storage card. Use activesync. Its faster that way.
2. Clear out your browser history and temp files. This could most probably be your culprit as they take up space too...and you don't necessarily see this upfront. Goto Start-->Internet Explorer-->Menu-->Tools-->Options-->Memory Tab.
[email protected] said:
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2. Clear out your browser history and temp files. This could most probably be your culprit as they take up space too...and you don't necessarily see this upfront. Goto Start-->Internet Explorer-->Menu-->Tools-->Options-->Memory Tab.
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I've been having "Insufficient memory" errors while trying to run SpB Backup, and have deleted all sorts of applications, but nothing seemed to free up enough memory. Then I tried your advice, and everything is working as it should!
Thanks!!
I have an elf - usually when I close all of my processes, except my stumble to unlock, I'll have approx. 15mb/47 free in my program memory. 10/28 of my storage space is free.
I've tried to clear all of my temp files... even made it so that all my temp files/PIE files are put on my storage card through SK tools, but still have the same issues.
As soon as I run my HTC music player with the one or two background apps, it almost always pops up with memory issues. Browsing with PIE is almost impossible for any period longer than 5 minutes.
I've tried it with several configurations and I always have the same results, even if I have no background processes - I still have the same issues.
Are you using a cooked ROM? Come to think of it, I never had many problems with the original shipped ROM. I was normally running S2U2, PocketMusic, Opera Mini and SpbMobileShell back then.
You mean to say you can't even run one application at a time without running out of RAM? Soft reset. And if you use SKTools like you say you do, try running Free Up RAM, select all options.
In your shoes I'd probably move everything I want to storage card, (you should want more than 10mb storage) try a hard reset and install my most used apps again. Oh, and what is your PagePool size? Try here to find out about that. It should be 4mb.
Your primary problem is indeed the fact that you are running out of space on your phone. 15mb for program memory especially on heavy usage is quite insufficient. Especially if your going to be multi tasking and running several applications at once. I would move ALL my installed programs and anything else I may be able to get my hands on, to the storage card. Try to squeeze out atleast 25-30mb out of your program memory. This should give your phone some more breathing space.
This might be to use of you to try it out.
http://www.oxios.com/memory/
hi
I had the same problem before but now my touch runs fine now & haven't got any issues till now. Use advanced task manager and pocket mechanic. These application will keep ur pocketpc in good shape.
Very good, Thanks.
Hi all,
i have read all i can find on the forum on this topic and i wanted to ask is a specific procedure existed for determining a memory leak (if i have one!) i find the gwes.exe file starts at 12mb at boot and generally increases untill a soft reset. it can reach 18mb. whilst i am not sure if this effects performance it causes my memory usage to rise constantly for no reason i can determine!
my setup - rom miri wm6.5 v26.3 - premium WITHOUT manilla
interface - spb mobile shell
dialer - phone ex
not much else
any ideas hints kindly recieved!
regards
Mat
lemat1 said:
i have read all i can find on the forum on this topic and i wanted to ask is a specific procedure existed for determining a memory leak (if i have one!) i find the gwes.exe file starts at 12mb at boot and generally increases untill a soft reset. it can reach 18mb. whilst i am not sure if this effects performance it causes my memory usage to rise constantly for no reason i can determine!
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Click to collapse
GWES memory consumption growth is as natural as gravity and it happens to improve performance. This happens because it is smart enough to keep resources in fast RAM so that next time they will not be loaded from (comparatively slow) flash memory. Basically this is the point in having RAM and the reason why you paid for it - it has to be loaded with stuff to make things faster. This sport of freeing RAM is just ridiculous in most cases (although not always, of course). You pay for it and then don't use.
Secondly, what you describe is not a memory leak. A memory leak is a situation of uncontrolled memory usage growth (if your GWES gradually ate all available memory to a point where device would crash that would be a memory leak). In general, there's nothing wrong with applications consuming more and more RAM as they work as long as they can free this RAM on demand. See for yourself: on your PC, load a memory-hungry application such as a web browser, note how much RAM it uses initially. Then use it for a while, RAM consumption will grow. Then minimize it and see how RAM usage drops dramatically. Even if an application uses half of all RAM it doesn't mean that this RAM isn't available for other programs when needed. When it's not needed, why not use it?
Good day!
I've tried a few different apps now, Memory Usage, Advanced Task Killer, and I seem to hover between 110m to 25m. I kill some apps and it jumps back up to 110 and then slowly works its way back down to the mid 20's. Is this normal?
Tips? What is your available memory like?
To sum it up: Free memory is useless memory. You should have as little memory free as possible.
Explanation. Android handles memory management really well. When an app is opened and needs more memory it will shut down unused processes and free up memory on an as needed basis. For apps this can be everything from pausing individual functions all the way to saving an apps state to disk and restoring it the next time it's opened.
Task killers are mostly solutions looking for a problem, I've been running without one for months and my amount of free memory fluctuates as expected when surfing the web and things like that but so far there haven't been any times where I've had to free up memory. So don't stare yourself blind on memory meters and try freeing up memory. Android handles that well enough on its own.
+1..
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That's good info! I kinda knew I was making something out of nothing with the numbers. The phone has been fine in terms of performance.
my 2 cents....i typically have between 30-60mb free. phone does not lag or anything. i used task-killer for a few days when i got phone, then actually thought about what it was doing and the way the system (linux based) is designed. i ditched it and have not looked back!
ps. my phone is rooted R2BA024 firmware, fwiw.
I usually have like 80 mb free ram just for the case and i use task manager to kill apps that are using data connection when i dont need them
I got totally obsessed with task killing but having read a lot of the lads reports on here I am on my third day of not touching it and I have to say my phone is doing fine all by itself!
goth50 said:
I usually have like 80 mb free ram just for the case and i use task manager to kill apps that are using data connection when i dont need them
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I think you'd be better off setting up data synchronisation properly. I'm assuming you're talking about background syncing of course. So that you don't accidentally kill an app in the middle of a sync which might cause corruptions. I've had that happen when synching my gmail to a linux machine and the network went down, the cleanup required was insane and I lost a whole months worth of mails from the google servers.
ddewbofh said:
To sum it up: Free memory is useless memory. You should have as little memory free as possible.
Explanation. Android handles memory management really well. When an app is opened and needs more memory it will shut down unused processes and free up memory on an as needed basis. For apps this can be everything from pausing individual functions all the way to saving an apps state to disk and restoring it the next time it's opened.
Task killers are mostly solutions looking for a problem, I've been running without one for months and my amount of free memory fluctuates as expected when surfing the web and things like that but so far there haven't been any times where I've had to free up memory. So don't stare yourself blind on memory meters and try freeing up memory. Android handles that well enough on its own.
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Heh...handles memory very well, but how about the battery life!? The more apps you have- the less power you've left.
mymagicmyhero said:
Heh...handles memory very well, but how about the battery life!? The more apps you have- the less power you've left.
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That's debatable, most background apps drain miniscule amounts of power. The exception naturally being things that makes use of the hardware while backgrounded by playing music, syncing, calculating pi or things like that. Most apps though, just hang out in memory not really doing anything. A lot of the time, if not most, it's more efficient staying there as opposed to shutting it down and starting it up again later.
+1 yes, just hanging out idle in memory wont cost you any battery, the memory will be on an base current either way, what does cost you battery is the read and write actions to memory so if you frantically clean out that memory your phone will have to write alot more to it working with your different apps resulting in a slower (less prepared) device sucking more battery then neccessary. Leave the memory handling to your device ;-)
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