Hi,
A lot of people are struggling with lag/stuttering with A2DP (both using Universal users, and users with other devices). I have done a (not too "scientific" test I admit though), that seems to indicate that on a Universal A2DP increases the load on the CPU with approx 20% (at least when playing a 192Kbps MP3 song).
Here is my "so called test";
I used the application SuperTasks 2.0 (http://www.pocketgear.com/software_detail.asp?id=14661) to measure CPU load.
I tested on my own Universal (originally an I-mate JasJar), flashed with the following ROM from QTEK;
ROM Version: 1.30.77 WWE
ROM Date: 02/20/06
Radio version: 1.09.00
Protocol version: 42.42.P8
ExtROM: 1.30.176 WWE
I had no other applications running, started after soft reset all times (but of course WindowsMobile will run some background tasks, but since I soft reset each time it should be at least simmilar for all tests). I played same MP3 track that is encoded with 192 Kbps.
The percentages shown below is the "total CPU utilization", so it is not just PocketMusic+A2DP, or WMP+A2DP, but the total load on the CPU when doing this (including any other process running in the background). So we see here the "relative impact" of using A2DP.
Here are the results;
PocketMusic with A2DP
40-45% CPU
PocketMusic without A2DP
20-25% CPU
WindowsMediaPlayer with A2DP
35-40% CPU
WindowsMediaPlayer without A2DP
15-20% CPU
So A2DP (if we trust this "unscientific test"!) takes approx 20% CPU (on an Universal...what it takes on a Wizard...who knows 30-40% due to slower CPU!?), and WMP takes approx 5% less CPU than PocketMusic (but I still prefer PocketMusic due to usabillity issues).
And this seems to fit with my experiences with A2DP on my JasJar...I seldom have problems with my JasJar outputting...for me, it is usually a problem with BT signal/connection between JasJar and headset...and that is reduced by keeping them close, few/little objects between them.
...but then again...other people might have more CPU intensive apps running on the Universal than me, and therefore get lag/stuttering due to the approx 20% extra CPU usage of A2DP.
Anyones wants to do the same "unscientific test" on a Wizard, and post the results of that for comparison....? ;-)
So it all makes sense now...
I'm planning to try a different ROM later. Any recommendations?
richardlai said:
I'm running on the same ROM (I think) on my V1640, and I'm still having lag issues with my Jabra HT620s after the reg fix is applied.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really don't know why I do not have this problem any more...and others clearly have it (for example hannip; http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=53431&sid=bad6bf3a522408413b9c75b7e7d71a12). I only seem to have "radio disturbance" issues (and they I can fairly easy avoid by just being carfull with where/how I place my JasJar).
And as hannip have tested on his phone, he gets this lag/stuttering when there is no radio disturbance, when he as applied "A2DP lag patch"...AND he sees that JasJar CPU is not overloaded...while I do not have it...so it still seems to be a "mystery" what really resolves it...!?
BTW, HOW did you apply the "A2DP lag patch"...by running a file you found somewhere in this forum...this one probably (http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=46811&highlight=a2dp+lag+patch)?
If so, you might want to add it manually to the registry...cause I (and I know at least a couple others seen the same) did NOT get the registry value added when I ran that file...I by accident checked registry and it showed that the key (HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Drivers\BuiltIn\BtA2dpSnd\Priority256, DWORD with value=60 in decimal) was not added...so I did it manually with "Resco Registry".
But it seems that for some people...it STILL is a problem with lag/stuttering...!?
BTW-2, re-check after a soft reset that the registry key is still there...so that you are certain that it is really written to registry, and not just cached (WM5 is a bit "too smart" in caching things before writing to "disk"/permanent memmory/flash memmory).
richardlai said:
I'm planning to try a different ROM later. Any recommendations?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I actually are fairly happy with the ROM I currently use, at least A2DP-vise. I DID have lag/stuttering issues before with that ROM (as all other ROMS), but no I don't...and I really do not know exactly what resolved it...I tried a lot of different thing for some some days/weeks...and no it just works fine...!?
I added the registry values manually.
The only solution for now is to soft-reset whenever I want to use Bluetooth stereo! But there is still lagging every now and then. The only radio disturbance I can think of is from my laptop and its power adaptor (since every time I turn on the laptop, my FM radio and DAB radio loses reception).
richardlai said:
But there is still lagging every now and then.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you sit "more or less still", and listen to music from Universal while it is lying still on the table or something less than a meter from you...do you have any lag then? For me, there will be absolutely no lag then...OK, if I listened for an hour there MIGHT be a one second lag, once (if I was "unlucky")...but certainly nothing more than that.
Or do you mean by "every now and then", that even in such a "controlled environment", you still get only one minute or so between each lag?
richardlai said:
The only radio disturbance I can think of is from my laptop and its power adaptor (since every time I turn on the laptop, my FM radio and DAB radio loses reception).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
...must be a seriously powerfull laptop, with a powersupply like that!
RonnyGydar said:
If you sit "more or less still", and listen to music from Universal while it is lying still on the table or something less than a meter from you...do you have any lag then? For me, there will be absolutely no lag then...OK, if I listened for an hour there MIGHT be a one second lag, once (if I was "unlucky")...but certainly nothing more than that.
Or do you mean by "every now and then", that even in such a "controlled environment", you still get only one minute or so between each lag?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, the way I tested it was me sat on a chair, with my Universal sat on the desk, so the distance between the Universal and my Bluetooth headset is just over half a metre. That is when I still get lags- they happen about every 10 minutes on average, and each can last up to about 3 5 seconds.
The Universal is still playing though, so I miss out little parts of the music. I don't know if that is to do with radio interference or the Universal struggling to catch up with the wireless streaming.
richardlai said:
Ok, the way I tested it was me sat on a chair, with my Universal sat on the desk, so the distance between the Universal and my Bluetooth headset is just over half a metre. That is when I still get lags- they happen about every 10 minutes on average, and each can last up to about 3 5 seconds.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just did same test again here at work (where there are multiple WiFi sources and BT phones and PC's), and listened to music for approx 25 minutes, and I had not a single lag/stutters at all. I trained earlier to day at the Gym, and had the phone in my bag which I placed some meters away from me while training, and had some lags (maybe 3-5 during the 30 minute exercise, each lag is approx 1 or so, very brief in other words). But that I had a couple of "lags" was expected, since I moved around in the Gym.
Seems like I actually are fairly "lucky" with my JasJar/headset/ROM/setup...since it seems everyone has much more lag than I experience (even though I had continious problems a month or two ago...to the point I almost gave up the whole A2DP thing).
richardlai said:
The Universal is still playing though, so I miss out little parts of the music. I don't know if that is to do with radio interference or the Universal struggling to catch up with the wireless streaming.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, it sounds like interference too me...I got the impression that if you miss parts of the music then it is interference, and if it continues at same point it left of, or it sounds like it "speeds up" for a short while when it gets back it has something todo with JasJar...but I don't know for sure.
...but then again..why you get interference when there should not be any distrurbances...and I do not get any when I sit in an area there SHOULD be lots of interference...!?
RonnyGydar said:
I trained earlier to day at the Gym, and had the phone in my bag which I placed some meters away from me while training, and had some lags (maybe 3-5 during the 30 minute exercise, each lag is approx 1 or so, very brief in other words). But that I had a couple of "lags" was expected, since I moved around in the Gym.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would be amazing performance. My performance is more like the others ( range about 50 cm with clear line of sight, with a 3-5 second lag every 10 minutes.) Any movement of the Universal will cause stutter and lag. This is usable, but hardly wireless nirvana.
I am using an MDA pro with the Qtek ROM with MSFP + A2DP, and I have lost track of the registry edits I have tried.
Can you tell me what your setup is (ROM, which headset, and what registry edits).
THx.
Surur
surur:
Do a search for the registry edits - you'll definitely find it on this site.
surur said:
That would be amazing performance. My performance is more like the others ( range about 50 cm with clear line of sight, with a 3-5 second lag every 10 minutes.) Any movement of the Universal will cause stutter and lag. This is usable, but hardly wireless nirvana.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have I been "very lucky" with my Universal? ...that would be really amazing...since I always in all other situations in life are a living example of "bad luck"!
I remember I had a lot more problems "before" (a couple of months ago).
So I will try with my Motorola BT820 again on my workout after work today (don't have them with me at work today), just to verify that it is not my i-Tech BluePRO headphones that have "cured it (don't think so...but then again, it does not hurt to try).
I have used the i-Tech's instead of the Motorola's since I got the i-Tech's a couple of months ago. For two reasons only; more bass, and more comfortable to wear...even though they are really-really-really bad for phones calls, since people are complaining about lousy sound when I use them one the phone.
surur said:
I am using an MDA pro with the Qtek ROM with MSFP + A2DP, and I have lost track of the registry edits I have tried.
Can you tell me what your setup is (ROM, which headset, and what registry edits).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My ROM is mentioned in the original post above, and also the single registry edit I have regarding A2DP is mentioned in my second post in this thread, but I summarize here;
ROM Version: 1.30.77 WWE
ROM Date: 02/20/06
Radio version: 1.09.00
Protocol version: 42.42.P8
ExtROM: 1.30.176 WWE
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Drivers\BuiltIn\BtA2dpSnd\Priority256, DWORD with value=60 in decimal
Related
I have a Cingular 8125. I bought it only a couple weeks ago, and I have to say that if it wouldn't have been for these forums and all the tips tricks and hacks that are being discovered here - I would have taken this devvice back to the store... I have days when I love it and days when I hate it - but overall I have to say that I just barely satisfied with the performance. It just feels like the OS (wm5) is to intensive for the processor in these devices.... and is it just me ... or does anyone else feel like they also are a BETA Tester for this devices and this platform in general .... cause let's face it - these things are not for everyone - it takes a über-geek like me and you to use one
Anyway, I am rambling, but - share your thoughts...
Yes i am, with it overclocked, upgraded rom and various hacks lol... Plus it gives this forum a boost - most problems are fixable
The 195 Mhz of the Wizard are enough for PDA/phone activities. But it's too little if you want to do more wiht your device. For example, when streaming mp3 via WiFi and then immediately encode to A2DP, the machine CRAWLS.
And it is getting worse with WMV video: it won't playback any QVGA WMV videos, too slow of a cpu (tried both WMP and TCPMP).
So, it depends how you use your device.
the 8125 processor 195/200mhz is just as fast as the Verizon/Sprints Xscale 400mhz process just different chips that clock speeds differently. it's like comparing a Intel Centrino 1.5ghz to a 2ghz mmx the centrino can blow past the mmx chip in a benchmark... but anyway the device is pretty fast being that it's small and can hold a decent battery life.
a lot of people add tons of plugs to there device that really slows it down. crappy coding in a plugin can make the 8125 really slow
I have to concur with phlojo on this: I migrated from a Himalaya (XDA2) & WM2003SE onto an MDA Vario. I was seduced by the prospect of built-in wifi, smaller footprint and WM5, but I have been severely disappointed by speed, memory space and stability. The poor stability is probably due to lack of memory, but there are other 'features' :x that infuriate, like a hit and miss alarm. Today I got 2 at the same time - but I have known it to miss alarms or to lose WEP keys, which is a PITA to type in as you can't paste the key on WM5; you have to type manually.
It was suggested in this thread that these issues were caused by additionally installed user applications. All I can say it that I'm only trying to run the same apps as I did on my xda2 (GPS map finding, opera & TCMP). At the moment I give it 6/10. If I find a smaller memory footprint rom to download, this might go up.
I think those considering the upgrade version of this phone need to check the hardware specs before taking the plunge. I've got this on a 18 month contract, so I'm stuck with it for a while.
running wm5 on a vario is like running winxp on a celeron 700
definatley needs more ram as well
Hi everyone,
I was quite concerned when I went from my Dell Axim x50v to the MDA Vario.
I was worried that the jump from 624Mhz to 180Mhz would be a bridge too far!
And it nearly was.....until I upgraded my ROM to 2.17.x.x, now it is reliable, doesnt randomly reset without warning and the performance is very good.
I use Tube 2 quite a bit and Tom Tom 5.21 and find there is little noticable difference to the Axim.
I am sure media encoding and streamng would be a totally different kettle of fish though - 180Mhz is just not enough for this kind of 'work', I am sure the Axim would struggle with this too!
The question is, is this really what you want to do with your Phone/PDA when theres such good 'tools for the job' such as the Sony PSP?
Mark
as a new user to the ppc scene. i dont really know what to expect. i should be receiving my 8125 very soon..
It set to come stock with whatever cingular puts on it..
any advice from the start? im really new to this whole rom thing so dont know what to do exactly..
ive read on here that overclocking boosts performance?
Im really impressed with mine, it works twice as good as i expected it to and thats with minimal hacks, its not even overclocked
im using the latest O2 ROM and i cant say i notice any slowdowns at all.
as i've said before, it performs so much better than my old XDA IIi and thats a 500Mhz WM2003 device!
i honnestly cant complain about it in anyway ... well 1 thing i spose, the stock headphones are horrible, but they work
Mediocre phone barely useable for business
I came from a kyocera 7135, treo 650 to this phone. I had two purchase 1 program and install 3 third party apps to get the functionality of the 7135 on the treo. As for the 8125 wizard this phone is a toy. I use my phone and pda functionality to the fullest and its just been extremely frustrating. DPAD navigation is a joke if it exists for the application. Phone integration with the PIM is worthless just try to copy a phone to the clipboard it only allows to save as new contact. MS made a big deal of respond to missed calls with an sms on the treo 700. Why exclude that feature on this version. Like everything they do nothing is consistent. My favorite flaw though is something that palm does very well. Hard reset the device and your screwed. Apparently not everything is backed up. You are required to reinstall many apps.
Performance the device has to be overclocked. Its performance isn't even acceptable out of the box.
To make the device usefull you need to overclock, install a few apps for menu navigation, a few progs for system maintenance, upgrade rom, make varios registry changes. If it this forum didn't exist I would have sold the phone bought another Treo.
The device or WM5 is good on two items. Wifi and web browser. Palm droped the ball on this big time although the newest version of blazer is supposed to be much better there is still no wifi.
MS needs to work on their PIM/Phone integration and the dpad for the device. the dpad hould navigate to all controlls and menus on the screen.
anyway just my gripes.
- Richard
I love my Vario. Everyone I show it to loves my Vario. That's even without google maps mobile, which I got working today.
Yes it is slow out of the box, I ran it for my first 2 months at default speed, I only setup overclock a few days ago, but now I have it overclocked 20% 24x7 and it's so much better.
I am totally happy with it. Of course I would love the faster CPU and UMTS and scrollwheel of the Wizard II, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.
I am happy with the software side. Very happy. It is the first XDA that I can rely on for receiving phonecalls, which afterall is what its for. Hell, its the first one where caller display works properly.
An overclocked XD mini-s plays QVGA videos fine for me.
I bought it knowing it would need hacking, but yeah, were it not for these forums and me being a phone nerd I'd wanna take it back.
I am not happy with hardware. The gap between the botom of te screen and case is appauling. Stuff gets down there, then the touchscreen stops working and its an arse to get out. The stylus falls out and the black paint flakes off.
Also, it randomly fried my 2GB mini-SD card, something which I have never forgiven it for as I still have not managed to replace it. Using this device without a card is impossible. If you have more than 5 photos on it, it constantly comes up with low memory errors.
The main reasons for the dreadful performance are two.
first, the processor has very small data and instruction caches. second, wm5 has this great nifty trick where system calls from a user-space process gets intercepted by the os, run, and then the results go to the process. Or something like that.
Plus, a significant portion of the os and user interface must be .**** i mean .NET which makes it even slower.
I use the custom 2.17 rom available on this site and I'm quite happy with it. Granted, I don't use it's every available feature or play mp3s and video with it often, but I do now and then, either as files or streaming off the web, and it all works fine. I was overclocking for a while but found I didn't really need it and haven't used it since the 2nd or 3rd week I had it. It's definately slower than my old Blue Angel but WM5 is so much smoother in operation than 2003SE which makes up for it. Also, just like with a pc where the keyboard is faster and more convenient than a mouse, the keyboard is much faster and more convenient than the stylus and I avoid pulling out the stylus when at all possible.
I guess everyone's milage may vary but my experience has been a very good one.
Wizard Performance
I must begin by saying that I really love the Wizard after using the ROMs and hacks on this site.
My first Windows device was a n xv6600 with verizon's EVDO network. The xv6600 has a 400 mhz processor. It was very fast but had horrible battery life, poor reception, and had to be soft reset all the time.
When I first got the 8125 Wizard, I almost sent it back. it was slow and locked up often. Next, I tried the Qtek Test ROM which worked better and had A2DP. However, I was still resetting all the time.
Now I'm running Exelencin's 2.17 Custom ROM for TMO. It works very well. The unit performs all tasks just as fast or almost as fast as the xv6600 (Blue Angel) which I still have and use as a benchmark.
I'm hooking up to the Wifi at work and home between 900 and 1200 kbps. That's faster than the EVDO speeds on the Blue Angel. The Wizard streams video from the web very well on Wifi. I'm getting Edge connections through TMO in SLC from 60 to 95 kbps. Though the EVDO is supposedly 3 to 4 times faster, it sometimes takes just as long to download some pages.
I use a ton of BT devices, including but not limited to:
I-PHONO 450RX and MOTO BT820 stereo headsets; Jabra headsets, my HP laptop with BT, and my Audi A6. The Wizard works much better than the Blue Angel. The Wizard even transferred all my contacts directly into the Audi. The BT connections are clearer and work from a longer distance.
I use a variety of foreign language dictionaries, read my mormon scriptures on the wizard. These memory intensive programs actually run faster on the Wizard than the BA. I put all programs on the sd card except one's like voice command which must be in device memory to work well. I also keep all pictures etc. on the mini sd card. Voice command can also be activated with my jabra or moto stereo headsets.
All in all, the Wizard rocks with the right ROM and settings. The battery life is simply outstanding. I can go one to one and a half days without a recharge.
The only time I get the wizard running slow is when I have half a dozen programs running. I wish programs would close when closed. I'm tired of going in the memory settings and shutting down programs I've already closed.
All in all
I have an imate Kjam which I got in MArch this year. I have installed and removed TONS of software and only had to do one hard reset as a result of crap dictionary software. I only have a speed issue when opening large Word docs with tables in it. Otherwise I am a happy camper with my device. I will not use the overclock software as I believe you are looking for trouble.
I will never go back to a regular cellphone now.
I regularly use mortplayer, TCPMP with full feature movies, Media player and Real One Player, and I have NEVER had speed/memory issues.
Remember guys that this little sucker has a DUAL CORE processor!!! It handles graphics BETTER than other faster clock speed processors.
ENJOY!!!
Something else to keep in mind for those with issues with video playback is that the 1.0 version of TCPMP is basically built from the ground up. They are reporting a VERY large increase in speed all round.
Yes you may have to fork over some cash to get all the codecs but for a player like TCPMP I dont think that $20 or so is that big an ask.
Lastly - and something I think is overlooked often - The wizard is a pretty fair phone with good battery life. I bought the unit because it was reviewed as a useable phone, sure I wanted a PPC as well but the phone had to work and not die in 1hrs use.
If all I had wanted was a PPC I would have bought something else, but I hate single taskers and to me the wizard is a great multi-tasker.
Good and bad
After applying a bunch of the tricks available on this site, I am overall quite happy with the T-Mobile MDA, over the Treo 600. I also agree that this site is necessary, but treocentral's forum was necessary, too: every advanced device needs educated users to achieve full functionality.
The biggest nuisance to me is not the speed but the fact that it is not responsive for a long time, 20 seconds or even more, occasionally.
The second biggest nuisance is that I can't search my 700 contacts for a keyword and get an answer in a realistic amount of time. On the palm, that took a couple of seconds; here, even overclocked at 240, it takes 20 minutes. What is with that?
The third nuisance is caps/shift lock, which is mostly that I am used to the Palm method and partly that the palm method makes more sense (turn on sticky with a double press, turn off with a single press of the caps or shift key).
Better things about the MDA: multitasking. wifi. VOIP. Today screen with SPB weather and diary. Runni8ng programs from the mini-SD card. Sound quality (phone and music).
8125 Works Like A Champ
My Cingular 8125 Is absolutely Fantastic...
Previous History...
I had a Samsung x427m freebie Phone and a Used Hp1910 Pocket Pc Off ebay...(150bucks) Did everything I wanted at the time... Played movies encoded at 220bit just fine... Plus I'm Cheap... had games... NES Roms... Mobipocket.... mp3's Liked the 3.5 screen...Kept it for 3-4 years...
8125...MINE...lol
1gb minisd Card
Motorola h500 Bluetooth Handsfree
1 Delux Black aluminum Case...
Firest thing I did was Update the Rom...
Cingular_RUU_225111_BETA_Custom_A2DP_THMS_RNGRS.exe
I knew That I would need to do that Much before I started any Computer geek will tell you you to find the newest Firmware/Drivers...lol
added vjvolubilis.cab to use my motorola H500 Bluetooth Handsfree To listen to music...works good...
Did the Wifi Update so It would actually connect to my wifi... I like WIFI...lol
Kept Wisebar Advanced off... Decided that it Slows up stuff a little, and doesn't like landscape with the only theme I'd actually use...no big deal,
Installed Battery Pack Pro... A MUST HAVE... lets you setup custom little icons to quickly pick application or game to run.... and will let you endtask Without having Wisebar on there... also shows battery time left and memory...
Installed MS Voice Command...
Installed Sprite Backup Another MUST HAVE... Make a quick backup when everything you want is running perfect and everything is installed...
Mobipocket reader Pro.... BOOKS>>>>BEST PROGRAM EVER FOR THIS...
Full Screen, From TXT and other pda formats... Scrolls Best way to Read a book in the Known universe...
TCPMP --- VIDEOS --- Need I say More.... full lenght dvd is about 100mb an hour... at 248 bitrate
Age Of empires Gold ---- Works Good... Good Game.... Still Wishing for AOE2 on PPC
Pocket Tombraider... Works Good... Amazing....
OverClocking Utilities
I've Tested it with the defaults 200mhz 240mhz and 252mhz, seems stable with all haven't compared battery test with them yet
Cingular 8125... Finally SET ME FREE....lol
Music
I still need to Put Pocket Music Player on there... Don't care for Mediaplayer10 but media player 10 works ok...
Movies...
I encode movies from dvd using Lathe around 248 bitrate... Plays them Perfect... without needing to overclock over 200 don't know why anyone would want higher bitrate on such a small screen...
Games - Havn't tried NES yet, but SNES was still too slow...Oh well... I'm fine with Super Mario Brothers 3 --- I'm Still afraid to Remap the phone on and off buttons for games... don't want to miss a call...lol
Tested Battery at 200mhz... thats what I keep it at... looks like playing a movie 248 bit and music and movies, reading, with blutooth off, wifi off,
will give you somewhere about 6-7 hours... WOW... my old PPC only would go for 2h 35min... Oh... the Screen Brightness was at 50% which is what my old pda looks like at 100% and looks great... brightness could go Way higher but not Necessary (wow did I just say that)
Bluetooth... H500... number 2 Handsfree device Cost me 35 bucks including shipping on ebay... Works Very Well When Close to device... Like 7-10 feet...
I use a phone like almost never.... But using the BT to Voice Dial Numbers Is Great...
I was afraid to get this because of the suposedly slower 200mhz processor... what a joke... This is way faster than my old Pda clocked at 300mhz...
I'd say the only drawback is the 2.8 screen, but it seems no to make much difference...
Price... $400 bucks... I bought it New Off Ebay... Unlocked... payed about 50 bucks more than cingular sells it for but keeps me from their stupid 2 year contract... seems worth every penny...
a friend of mine returned hers after about 5 days because she didn't know any computer stuff... had lockup problems because she didn't update Rom... The usuall stuff...lol These arn't for the completely computer illiderate...(at least straight out of the box) But I'd be hard pressed to find a better Device...
I'm pretty happy with my 8125. It's zippy enough for me. I even have Wis Bar Advance 2 loaded along with a bunch of other today plug ins and it's fine at the factory 195mhz clock speed (Though I've recently up'd the clock speed to 228 just because I can, feels zippier w/menus and webpages). It's never frozen up on me, I use Explorer A LOT (3-4 hours a day minimum) for browsing email and webpages at work. I have my Motorola H700 BT headset with me at all times so bluetooth has been turned on since I've had the device. This is the best phone I've had so far. Kicks the **** out of my Treo 650. I was a hardcore Palm user (Owned many Clie's and a Treo 600+Treo 650) and it took me a lot of convincing to "try" the 8125 but now I'm just in love with it :wink:
It seems I am not the only one that have had "some pains" when using A2DP (="Stereo Bluetooth" / "Wireless Stereo"-bluetooth profile).
I thought I write down some tips for getting A2DP to work, and how to minimize the issues people are having...and hopefully others will fill in their tips...and maybe even prove me wrong (I have been wrong before...but what are the odds of that happening TWICE!?" ) on some points?
1. Challenge is getting a headset that supports A2DP, and works well with the Universal
I have had a pair of HP stereo headphones (these are only for music, does not have a microphone), a set of Motorola HT820 and a pair of i-Tech BluePRO. There are probably 20-30 other options as we speak (among other from Ericsson, Nokia, etc).
All the 3 ones I had worked with the Universal using A2DP to listen to music. Here are the PRO's and CON's for each of them from my point of view.
HP Stereo Headphones (same as Logitechs iPod BT headphones)
+ Clear and nice sound.
+ For "over the ear"-headphones, they were comfortable.
- Seems to be fairly sensitive for stuttering/lag/gaps when used for A2DP...at least is MY headset like that!
- Poor batterycapasity (approx 8 hours)
- Not an mini-usb plug (since the JasJar use mini-USB...less cables to bring)
- lacks a little bass wise (at least compared to the i-Techs)
i-Tech BluePRO
+ Seems to have fairly little prob with "lag/suttering" (my specific headset has almost no issues with it at least!)
+ Great bass (a BIG plus for me...I love techno-music
+ Great batterylife (approx 20 hours, and even more if you buy a 2500mah rechargable AA battery)
+ Can play very loud...if you want to that is (actually louder than my wired Koss headphones)
+ Uses 1 AA battery (I felt this was a CON first, but now that I have bought some 2500mah rechargable AA batteries, this actually is a "pro")
- "fuzzy" sound (compared to HP and Motorola HT820, the sound is slighty "fuzzy"...I noticed it when I swapped from Motorola to these, but have not noticed afterwards...so for HiFi people it might be a big CON, for me it was not).
- Reconnect not as expected (will not automatically reconnect to Universal when it is turned off and then on again)
- not very good for phonecalls (people are sometimes complaining it is hard to hear me)
Motorola HT820
+ Clear and nice sound.
+ Great microphone (people on other end say I am crystal clear, even when I walk outside)
+ Good batterylife (15 hours I think)
+ Charges over MiniUSB (hurrah, can use the Universal sync/charge cable)
+ Reconnects as expected (if you turn on the headset it will automatically reconnect with Universal)
- Seems to be fairly sensitive for stuttering/lag/gaps when used for A2DP (not an issue with phonecalls it seems)...at least is MY headset like that!
- ucomfortable to wear over time (after around two hours, they "hurt the ears", due to the way they hang over the ears...might be my ears though
- lacks a little bass wise (at least compared to the i-Techs)
I think that just about any person would chose the Motorola's over the i-Tech's anytime.
...but I am not everyone...so I personally use the i-Tech...and that is ONLY because of the "heavy bass", "loud soundlevel" and "closed earmuffs"...since that means I can listen to music/podcasts in even noisy environments and get what I define as "good sound" (="lots and lots of bass"
[UPDATE 1. august 2006]
I used my Motorola's again when I was on vacation (have used only the iTechs for several months now), and suddenly had a lot of lag/stuttering again...an issue I thought I had resolved with registryfixes and new ROM's.
...but "suddenly" I could not walk around with my headset and listen to "gapless music in stereo"...I could not do a workout at the gym with them, even when the Universal was 2-3 meters away from me...I would get gaps/lags once every minute or so.
With my iTech's this problem is almost non-existent. ...I wrongly thought this issue was fixed on the Universal-side, with the latest ROM's I installed, so forth...but it seems that at least "part of the problem" was the headsets themselves (my Motorola HT820's and my HP headset seems a quite a bit worse off in this regard than my iTech's).
My conlusion...test before you buy, since the headsets ALSO can influence the amount of lag/stuttering you get (as this was not complex enough as it was)!!!!
I am "happy" with my iTechs...but wish they automatically reconnected to Universal when I turn them on...and wish they were as good as the Motorola's for phonecalls.
[END OF UPDATE 1. august 2006]
2. Get a ROM which supports A2DP
This should not be to hard today, you can for example install the latest QTEK ROM (I use the WWE/english ROM, not sure of status on the other versions). Jwright (a user on this forum) have made a custom ROM which also contains A2DP and PushMail, and I know there are quite a few other "official ROM's" with A2DP...but I do not have that overview.
I do not have a QTEK 9000 myself, but actually a "Norwegian i-Mate JasJar"...but I was able to install the QTEK ROM, and U should be able to do it too, regardsless of version of Universal you have. ...it might be a rough ride though, you might need to search these forum and read up on the Wiki pages on how to get around "DeviceID" and "CountryID" issues...but is IS solveable (later I might update this with some direct links to some of those guides posts).
[UPDATE 14.06.2006, tip from "cktlcmd"]
The following are the ROMs with A2DP and AKU2 support (Battery icon replaced Time):
****QTEK ROM (latest ROM)
****T-Mobile NL (latest ROM)
****JWright's Modified ROM (latest ROM)
The following is the only ROM with A2DP support (No AKU2) but with the Time icon still showing:
****JWright's Modified I-Mate ROM (1st test released ROM)
You can find a lot of different ROM installation files here; ftp://xda:[email protected]/Universal/Shipped_Complete_Updates/
PS!
If You have an AKU2 ROM (the ones with PushMail), and do not have A2DP, you can add it with a patch originally made for the HTC Tornado. I have tried this myself with an Norwegian iMate AKU2 ROM that did not have A2DP...and it worked!
It should work on other Windows Mobile 5 devices also (as long as they have AKU2). Then you do not have to reinstall your device from scratch...with all the work that usually involves (in getting everything back to exactly you like it).
You can read about it, and download file from here; http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=48491&highlight=tornado+a2dp+patch
So how do I know if I have A2DP or not
When you have bonded with your A2DP-able headset, you should under "Bluetooth Setttings", under the tab "Devices", among other see your headset (for me this is listed as; "i.Tech BluePRO").
If you tap-and-hold this, you will get a context-menu that should contain "Set as Wireless Stereo", if you see that text, you have A2DP. I see for example the following;
Edit
Delete
Set as Hands-free
Set as Wireless Stereo
If anyone reading this know a better/easier way to verify if one has A2DP, feel free to tell me/us...so it is easier for people to check this!
3. Choosing a musicplayer to use on the Universal with A2DP
OK, you have A2DP setup, you have a headset...which musicsoftware should/can you use.
In teory, you should be able to use whatever music software you use today, TCPMP, PocketMusic, MortPlayer, Windows Media Player, so forth. Cause all sounds is sent to the headset (but strangely MortPlayer struggles at least). But you might have problems with AVRCP (AVRCP bluetooth profile, makes it possible to change tracks and play/pause/resume the music from buttons on the headset...very convienient when the Universal is in the rugsack for example).
MortPlayer (exellent player...but A2DP-vise...unfortunately...no)
http://www.sto-helit.de/modules/wmpdownloads/viewcat.php?cid=4
I have always before used a musicplayer called MortPlayer.
The reason for using that one, was that it is incredebly tuned for "doing everything without taking out the stylus" (big buttons everywhere), and that it has an insane amount of options (you can for example set it to always start with a specific voulme, start playing the last song you heard, at the position in the song you left it, and when you quit the sound is set back to what it was before starting it. You can even tell it that a specific folder is "soundbooks", and then it will always remember last listened position of all files in it).
But with A2DP MortPlayer unfortunately does not work well, I get only sound on the left speaker, and the AVRCP buttons do not work. So MortPlayer I must unfortunately leave for now! :-(
Windows Media Player (works...but I "hate" it
You can of course use the built in Windows Media Player. It works with A2DP, and it support AVRCP. There is two (and in my eyes BIG such ones) problems with WMP.
One reason is that is is unbelievably painfull to use in daily use...every time you start it, it "forgets" where you left off the last time, and you have to choose "Storage Card" (it seems to choose "Main Memmory" as default library on startup?), then find the album or playlist and play it...and the areas to click on the screen to do all this requires the stylus (or a "precision finger".
Another reason, is that the play/pause/resume button is not working 100% for all headsets (my HP headset seem to work fine, the iTech and Motorola seems to only work once, then I have to click the next time on the Universal, and then it will work one again...not much use in realworld scenarios).
One big bonus with WMP is that it is already installed, and AVRCP and A2DP works "out of the box", nothing you have to do.
PocketMusic (great, AVRCP works flawlessly)
http://www.pocketmind.com/pocketmusic.htm
This is in my eyes a very good musicplayer for "the go", much like MortPlayer (even though I think MortPlayer is better...with a wired headset that is). It can be set up so that it contines exactly at the same point in the same song as you quit it the day before, and look and behold, AVRCP work with it...and not just that...here the play/pause/resume button works flawlessly (which it does not for WMP for some headsets it seems)...at least with all my 3 headsets.
I now use PocketMusic. The minus with it is that it costs money, but it is well worth it (for me at least). And you can test/use it for free for 15 days or something like that, so you can "test before you buy".
TCPMP (works, at least sound vise)
http://tcpmp.corecodec.org/download
I do not use TCPMP (I use it for video, were I believe it is THE player to use...but not for music...too much fidling with the stylus in my view, but that's just my opinion), so I can not say tomuch about it...but I tested and the sound worked at least over A2DP. I did not get the AVRCP buttons to work...but I have seen some people saying "on the web" that it is possible to use...but I do not "how".
4. Stuttering/lag when using A2DP
A2DP works great...but there is at least one issue that can put most people off, and that is that you can get some stuttering/lag in the sound. This can feel like this; You listen to your music, all is great, and suddenly there is no sound at all for a second or so, and suddenly the music continues, and then it is silent, and then it plays again. Sometimes you get one of these, and no problems for hours, and other extreemes can be that the twice every second the sound disapears and appears all the time, until you give up, curse the "damn A2DP", and in best case puts your headphones hard on the table.
REASON 1: Universal is strugling (CPU/RAM)
One reason for stuttering can be that the JasJar is struggling performance vise. To help with this you can do the following;
1. Install "A2DP priority patch"
This is done by adding a value to the registy of your Universal, you can manually enter the registry value, or use a CAB-file or a REG-file someone has prepared.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=46811&highlight=a2dp+lag+patch
2. Kill background programs (or do a soft reset)
When you get this problem, it can also be because of some program working in the background.
But as we all know...there is some rare moments when our PDA's/phones' just seem to be living its own life. I have had occations when there is no programs running, and the phone stills is incredible sluggish, and I can see the menus getting drawen painfully slow. ...and of course, if your PDA gets one of those "I-do-not-want-to-coperate"-moments, A2DP or your music player will struggle...but then it really is not an A2DP issue, since you most likely would have had the same problem with a wired headset.
REASON 2: Radio connection is disturbed (object obstructing signal, WiFi nearby, so forth)
It seems that the connection can be very sensitive for obstructions (between Universal and headset). For example, if I have the Universal in a pocket in my pants, while walking around...I can sometimes get lag/stuttering all the time. If I put it in my rugsack, it stutters very rearly...and if I hold it still in my hand in front of me (OK, you look very stupid doing this, it will not stutter at all.
But if I put it on the table, and walk around the room, and even walk into another room, and will be around 10 meters away, it might not stutter. So I assume it depends of what kind of material is between the Universal and headset, and also the amount of it...but also it will depend on the "general amount of radio disturbance" in that area (an area with a lot of WiFi equipment/Bluetooth signals might be a lot worse that an area with little or no such equipment).
In general for me, I have practically no problems when I walk around with it in my rugsack, and generally have a little (and sometimes a lot of) stuttering when I have my universal in my pant-pockets.
I also have no disturbance at home or at the Gym (as long as I have the Universal around 8-12 meters away from me), but at work (Telecom company with lot of radiotransmitters around) it works at best 3-4 meters maybe. All of this without obstructions.
"Hearing the root-cause"
If you have done all this, and still get stuttering, here is a tip for understanding WHERE the issue is. It seems that you actually can hear if it is an "Universal struggling"-issue, or an "radio-disturbance" issue...
If the sound is continuing exactly where it left of, when it stopped...then it is the Universal that is struggling. Meaning, if you hear a podcast and they say; "The president of...[silence]...the united states of America, Bush said today...", then it is the Universal that is struggling, and you could try to close some programs a soft reset or similar.
If the sound does not continue exactly where it left of, like; "The president of...[silence]...Bush said today", then it is an issue with radio disturbance in some form.
...and with this knowledge, you hopefully will be able to resolve it.
Hope this extreeemly long post will be usefull for someone, feel free to comment/correct/add info and experiences...so that "A2DP newbies" get an easier start than us!
Excellent post, just what I need to know as I have just ordered the Motorola HS820.
Two questions - am I correct in thinking that the latest official UK O2 XDA Exec Rom does not include the a2dp profile?
And if so, which ROM should I go for - I don't need push email, and I want as little branding as possible.
Thanks.
Hi Pantaloonie,
I do not know if "latest official UK O2 XDA Exec ROM" have A2DP, hopefully someone else reading this will know and respond.
There is a lot of official ROM out there (ftp://xda:[email protected]/Universal/Shipped_Complete_Updates), but the only two english ROM's that I know for certain that have A2DP is (but I think there are more now);
Jwrights customized ROM (I have not gotten hold of this)
QTEK WWE ROM (ftp://xda:[email protected]_WWE_13077_130176_10900_WWE_Ship_GR2.0.1.exe
)
[WARNING] It seems that my link above is NOT to the ENGLISH version, but to a GREEK version of the ROM!!!!
I will try out myself at home, and change the link to the correct ROM...but can't do this at work...
And if you want to have minimal operator customization, I think the QTEK ROM's are fairly basic ones. And in worst case you can softreset when the installation starts installing all the apps from ExtendedROM when you do an installation of the ROM. But then you will also often miss some utillities that you actually want to use.
Another alternative is to "cook your own ROM" (I did this for my old Qtek9090), but then you can expect to spend a day or two reading up on this forum, downloading the tools for doing this, and creating you own ExtendedRom. If I get hold of Jwrights customized ROM, I will update my post here though.
Excellent post!
The following are the ROMs with A2DP and AKU2 support (Battery icon replaced Time):
****QTEK ROM (latest ROM)
****T-Mobile NL (latest ROM)
****JWright's Modified ROM (latest ROM)
The following is the only ROM with A2DP support (No AKU2) but with the Time icon still showing:
****JWright's Modified I-Mate ROM (1st test released ROM)
Excellent post dude...you just saved me a ton load of internet research...you should do this more often...keep up the good work
cktlcmd, thanks for the great input!!!
Have added it to my original post, so that others reading this post, don't have to scan through all comments...not a problem right now...but might be harder when more people start giving tips and comments!
Pantaloonie, cktlcmd and youmeus, thanks for the positive feedback! Hopefully at lot of other will fill this with more experiences and tips! ...and I will try to summarize all tips into my original post, so that it is as up-to-date as possible!
This topic is under the Universal category, however everything listed in the initial post should be applicable to any device trying to get A2DP to work cleanly.
However, I believe there are several of us that have tried each of the suggested solutions and it still hasn't resolved the lagging issues. I'd be interested in learning about any debugging tools that could be used to figure out the root cause. Are there any kind of system tracing tools available or even a tool that could list process/thread and device driver priorities that could provide some clues. Is there some way we can determine if it's cpu limited, bandwidth limited (cpu to bt i/o?), interrupt related, etc.
I would also be interested in figuring out if there are any tweeks that can be applied to the bta2dp.dll driver other than setting the priority. For example what is the Flags parameter in the registry used for? It's currently set to 65538 on my device. Could it be a buffer size? A baud rate? Anyone know?
It seems to me if we figure out the root cause then it could even help people where A2DP is working so-so, but only if they close all apps, overclock, etc. To me doing these things is just a workaround until we figure out the real issue.
HS820 aren't stereo. HT820 Are... Great post otherwise
Aah...one can very easily use the Tornado A2Dp posted in the prophet section with any of the AKU2 ROMs...I hv successfully used with Nokia HS 12W...with FM..it works...really works
hdubli, are you saying that it actually works with Universal also? Do you have a direct link to the file in that case, so others easily find the correct file.
ady, thanks will correct post, HT820 it is, I remembered it was someting with "820" at least!
hannip, I put it under Universal since I only had experience with Universal in this regard, and also the ROM's...but if I get some tip/help/assistance from others... ;-)
hannip, I seem to have almost no problems anymore, and most of the times I have had lag/stuttering, it seems to have been "radio disturbance" that have been the problem...now I have learned when it work and when it doesn't, and have very seldom any problems. for example having JasJar in rugsack when I walk, and not in frontpocket of pants. ...and due to the size of JasJar you need a rugsack anyway!
That said, I agree it certainly wouldn't hurt to understand more about root-causes.
Will try to find out name of a app I used a year ago, which showed CPU utillation, memmory and processes.
I must quit now, my girlfriend complains about the irritating clicking from the keys of my JasJar here...
Hannip,
Searched for a tool (and tested all I found) you asked for...here is results...
Performance Monitor (does NOT work on WM5...made for Casio E-10x...veeery long time ago I had one
http://www.thumbsupsoft.com/maphtm/pemon.html
Downloaded, installed it on JasJar. Starts up, but only shows ProgramMemory and MainMemory, but no graph, nor any threads)...and does not completely uninstall either!
MemMaid 1.6 (Works on WM5)
http://www.dinarsoft.com/
I have this myself, is not really an monitoring app, but it also can show all running processes (not programs, like built in simmilar program for this) and their memmory usage. On my JasJar when builtin app shows 1 running app (MemMaid), MemMaid shows 17 running processes (and that they take up approx 22MB!).
Great app...but gives no info about CPU utilization unfortunately.
PMH TaskManager (does NOT work on WM5)
http://www.phm.lu/products/PocketPC/TaskMgr/
This one looked really promissing; "Display the running processes with their IDs, number of threads, CPU time, priority and complete path...".
But also is an PocketPC 2002 app, and on the JasJar it only shows process name...no info on CPU time, priority, so forth! :-(
SuperTasks 2.0 (YEEES, it works...and do what we want!!!)
http://www.pocketgear.com/software_detail.asp?id=14661
This one shows CPU time pr process, and a graph for total CPU usage (among other), much like task manager om your PC (if you're one of the Windows-people that is.
It has a 30 day trial, so you should be able to test a lot before deciding to buy or not.
Did an "unscientific" test using SuperTask.
I had no other applications running, started after soft reset all times (but of course WindowsMobile will run some background tasks, but since I soft reset each time it should be at least simmilar for all tests). I played same MP3 track that is encoded with 192 Kbps.
Here is the results;
PocketMusic with A2DP
40-45% CPU
PocketMusic without A2DP
20-25% CPU
WindowsMediaPlayer with A2DP
35-40% CPU
WindowsMediaPlayer without A2DP
15-20% CPU
So A2DP (if we trust this "unscientific test"!) takes approx 20% CPU, and WMP takes approx 10% less CPU than PocketMusic (but I still prefer PocketMusic due to usabillity issues).
And this seems to fit with my experiences with A2DP on my JasJar...I seldom have problems with my JasJar outputting...it is a problem normally with BT signal/connection between JasJar and headset...and that is reduced by keeping them close, few/little objects between them.
...but then again...other people might have more CPU intensive apps running on the Universal than me, and therefore get a problem due to the approx 20% CPU usage of A2DP.
UPDATE: Made a seperate post for the test with more info...here http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=53717
I got this from the wizard forum. Apparently there is a free task manager which works on universal as well and shows plenty of info. Can't find the thread though
ady said:
I got this from the wizard forum. Apparently there is a free task manager which works on universal as well and shows plenty of info. Can't find the thread though
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, that's a pretty cool app, however the cpu utilization doesn't seem to work for all apps. With PocketMusic playing it shows 0 % cpu for that process. It claims my Idle is 90% with PocketMusic over A2DP. That just can't be correct. Gonna try SuperTasks next.
Using SuperTasks I see the following stats
PocketMusic w/A2DP 15-25% cpu
services.exe 4-6% cpu
device.exe 5-15% cpu
everything else was 0.
So cpu-wise the device doesn't seem to be stressed. What I am hearing is from 2 to 15 seconds of music that gets paused for about a second before it continues. When it continues it sounds like the music is sped up for a moment as if it were trying to catch up.
It's almost like some kind of flow control start and stops. I've tested this in a wireless free area so I don't think it's interference related.
Neither one of these tools show priorities from what I could see. I'm still looking for something that can show process/threads and service priorities.
Mmm how do you get Pocketmusic and AVRCP to work?
I cant get it to work at all......WMP works fine with my HT820's but not with Pocketmusic.
DaveUK said:
Mmm how do you get Pocketmusic and AVRCP to work?
I cant get it to work at all......WMP works fine with my HT820's but not with Pocketmusic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What version are you using? Try the latest one.
http://www.pocketmind.com/files/pmusic.zip
Note that you should disable gapless playback if you experience hangs when switching tracks.
hannip said:
So cpu-wise the device doesn't seem to be stressed. What I am hearing is from 2 to 15 seconds of music that gets paused for about a second before it continues. When it continues it sounds like the music is sped up for a moment as if it were trying to catch up.
It's almost like some kind of flow control start and stops. I've tested this in a wireless free area so I don't think it's interference related.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree that this does not sound like "interference related". I think that when you have "interference"/"BT signal" issues, you will just loose some of the sound, while when it is JasJar issues it continues where it left of, or sometimes sound like it suddenly speeds up for a short while to catch up.
The behaviour you have here, I have not heard at all in at least a month, and I use A2DP a couple of hours every day...so it makes me wonder if there is something in the ROM that you have or some software on your JasJar that I don't have...!?
Maybe we should compare ROM versions, what services that are running in background of device, what apps we have installed currently, so forth? ...we probably won't find anything...but maybe worth a try!?
BTW
I DID have that issue a lot before though, and I don't really remember exactly WHEN I got rid of it, if it was manually entering the "A2DP lag patch", or if it was uninstalling some software...since I tried so many things in that period to resolve it...it just works pretty well now (except of course that it sometimes lags if there is to much obstructions between headset/JasJar).
On sunday (first time I have chance to "play again" ), I will also test with my Motorola HT820's again...just to verify that it works just as well with those headphones as it does with my iTech headset. ...it would really surprise me if that has had an effect...but I do not remember when it started to work fine...and "desperate people try desperate things"!
hannip said:
DaveUK said:
Note that you should disable gapless playback if you experience hangs when switching tracks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ahhhh thats the reson for those anoying delays!
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For some reason the version I downloaded direct from their website was 4.03
The copy you sent works like a charm with AVRCP.
Thanks alot!!!!!!!!!!!
hannip said:
DaveUK said:
Mmm how do you get Pocketmusic and AVRCP to work?
I cant get it to work at all......WMP works fine with my HT820's but not with Pocketmusic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What version are you using? Try the latest one.
http://www.pocketmind.com/files/pmusic.zip
Note that you should disable gapless playback if you experience hangs when switching tracks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At Christmas I will receive my HTC Touch HD and this is why I have started reading all the Blackstone thread since a month.
That is what I understand so far(correct me if I am wrong):
-Hardware: big screen,a bit less contrast than Diamond, but impressive resolution and really (probably for the first time) user-friendly device
-Battery: better than Diamond's one..up to 2 days of normal use
-Video performance: still a lot of work, but coreplayer works fine with low size movies or videos. At the moment there is no access to the internal GPU and only WMP can play smooth .mp4...big hopes for the future. People disappointed due to high hardware capability not used
-Audio performance: quality comparable to Ipod/Iphone, but TF3d interface has still some bugs to be fixed..however, a lot of 3rd software to choose the software we like most ( S2P for example)
-Camera performance: still a bit confused, it seems to be a "standard" 5mp compared to the level of other devices (nokia or sony-ericsson)...however there is no thread that show exactly the power of this camera with lot of pictures in different environments
-Navigation GPS: few bugs to be fixed, but we can use igo8, Navigon 7 and Tomtom 7 in high resolution
-Customization: like the other wm..you can do really what you want (change today, apply tons of software, etc etc)..there are no limits so far, except the hardware's ones.
-Games: let's say that the TOUCH HD is more a "business device" with media specifics...but still far from Iphone games. Let's hope in the future like for the video performance.
-Development: HSPL not yet released (after we would have a huge choice of ROMs!!!..)...hopefully a christmas gift
worksofart said:
-Battery: better than Diamond's one..up to 2 days of normal use
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That astonishes me. I never get more than about a day with only sending SMS and nothing else. Whoever comes up to two days please tell me (and perhaps others) how to achieve that. I even stopped active sync and used the trick (empty active sync server) to not let it start automatically. Is there anything (perhaps obvious for others) I missed?
I think you just about summed it up.
It is a really nice device with lots more potential.
I'm sure you won't be disappointed this christmas!!
How do you stop the activesync?
well, im looking for a better solution on the high quality video playback capability lol
something wrong
alex3683 said:
That astonishes me. I never get more than about a day with only sending SMS and nothing else. Whoever comes up to two days please tell me (and perhaps others) how to achieve that. I even stopped active sync and used the trick (empty active sync server) to not let it start automatically. Is there anything (perhaps obvious for others) I missed?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
there's probably something wrong with your device cause i always get over a day and a half at least i mean have a look this has been covered several times snd most members appear to agree that the battery has improved especially in comparison to the kaiser and diamond both very loved handsets
I must confirm, marvi0 is right. The battery should last for over a day to two days when the device is sporadicaly used.
What I see as potentional problems could be these:
1) bad radio version (i remember these issues on HTC Hima with old ROMs, they could drain battery twice fast than usual).
2) some creepy app, that takes too much CPU use. Remember that the more the CPU is used, the more batt is spend. The power-off works that way: it not only turns off screen, it also sends windows to some sort of standby mode, when most of the apps are suspended. But - if some app could not get to this state, it runs on full throttle on the background. I remember such issue with playing with WM5 screensaver and MortScripts. Check your taskbar, what is running there.
My battery now lasts up to 5 x days max if I use Tweak HD suggested settings throughout! This is an excellent App. As per the camera I wish this could be fixed / replaced with something like I originally used on my Trinity since the adaptive zoom/focus causes rapid movement to alwas go blurred, whilst static images or landscapes are fine.
Battery Last 1 n half day
After lots of phone calls, average sms and few songs...Battery Last 1 n half day...
Which is fine for me
max i got from the battery was 3 days only doing a couple of calls and some sms, i don't use any massive tf3d personalization only changed the background image, installed s2u2, crystal clock and optimized the phone cache, but usualy it's around 1 and half, 2 days
My battery went from 100% to 48% in the space of about 8 hours on Sunday as I was doing lots of stuff on it, trying to get apps working, trying things out, installing, uninstalling etc.
I then had the phone on standby all night (was 48% before bed) and it has been on standby most of today with 1 phone call and a bit of video and calculator, and still on 48%
Okay, I now got my battery life up to about two days with some telephony and SMS and bluetooth always turned on by switching of the light sensor and using a fixed setting of two bars for the light when using battery. This is enough (at least for me) to see everything well on the device in every lighting condition.
alex3683 said:
That astonishes me. I never get more than about a day with only sending SMS and nothing else. Whoever comes up to two days please tell me (and perhaps others) how to achieve that. I even stopped active sync and used the trick (empty active sync server) to not let it start automatically. Is there anything (perhaps obvious for others) I missed?
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I'm surprised with your short battery life. I used it almost non-stop and still had 50% left a day later. I find the battery life of HD amazingly good. However, I did took the pain to charge it properly before starting to use it. Although the manual said we need only 3 hours to charge it, I kept unplugging the power when the charge indicator turned green, then plug it in again. I kept repeating this process for about 2 hours after it first turned green. This might have something to do with the long battery life I'm getting, perhaps.
ScarySquirrel said:
My battery went from 100% to 48% in the space of about 8 hours on Sunday as I was doing lots of stuff on it, trying to get apps working, trying things out, installing, uninstalling etc.
I then had the phone on standby all night (was 48% before bed) and it has been on standby most of today with 1 phone call and a bit of video and calculator, and still on 48%
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This is very much in line with my own experience so far.
HTCzar said:
How do you stop the activesync?
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Have a look at this post http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=3036421&postcount=12
I thought I would start a thread for those experiencing music play-back issues.
I get 'skipping' when playing back music, but the really annoying thing is that sometimes it does not occur at all. This means I cannot, by process of elimination, determine what the cause is. Today I listened to an album with no problems at all, but last night the same album was skipping very badly - so file type cannot be to blame (it was AAC anyway).
If anyone else is having similar problems, please post and detail your phone model and network.
I have the graphite model on Orange. I have alerted HTC tech support to this problem and am awaiting a response.
Thanks.
Well, I still get intermittant skipping during the beginning of tracks! This is VERY frustrating, especially as I cannot pin down the reason and some people on here seem to have no problems at all. So my music player is effectively useless. I hope the update addresses this issue, but something tells me it won't...
Sorry but I have no problems at all really. Maybe a bit of hiss at the very lowest volumes but other than that I have happily replaced my ipod touch
simcarloc said:
Well, I still get intermittant skipping during the beginning of tracks!
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I get the same problem, but only when i listen to one song and it changes to the next. If i select another song theirs no skipping.
I get the same problem, but only when i listen to one song and it changes to the next. If i select another song theirs no skipping.
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Exactly the same here, does anyone out there have a clue why this is happening?
I have this problem too - Hero on Orange in the UK.
I have stuttering with BT playback and also the 'stretching' problem where a track goes off-key, like a dying 1980's walkman. Have tried turning off Wifi/Mobile/GPS but still occurs. Is better if the phone is 12 inches away from the BT headphones, but that kind of sucks.
Are you using bluetooth?
I found that having wifi turned on while using bluetooth caused stuttering, and this was fixed by turning off the wifi.
There are a variety of different issues you may encounter. For those having stuttering issues at the start of a track, are you using the stock SD card supplied with the phone? I think that is only a class 2 SD card, which provides a lower transfer rate which some people think can hobble things - particularly if you have other SD things going on like apps2sd and swapper. I have a 16GB class 6 card installed and haven't noticed any stuttering.
Cutting other background tasks such as Twitter (or at least dialling it back from an update every 5 minutes) may help things.
YMMV.
I've had a few Heroes now and only my most recent one had a stutter problem. The apps and settings were set to be the same on each phone. The MP3s were the same on the same card. I have no idea why one phone would have problems like that when the others didn't.
Happily, I applied the latest Rom and based on listening to half an hour of music last night it seems to be fine now.
Everything works better with this ROM it seems so look forward to release / get flashing.
I can confirm that since installing the Modaco update ROM, I no longer experience skipping/interferance. I have not listened to a large amount of music so it's early days, but things are looking good!
For people's information, I have a class 6 16gb card and yet I still used to get problems. So I think SD cards are not the source of the problem - especially since the update appears to have cured the problem.
Thanks.
I get stuttering and tempo changes over bluetooth using 2.73.405.5 (MCR 2.0), ie. the latest 'official' ROM, AFAIK.
Mid-tune stuttering seems to be down to weak BT transmission, i.e. if I turn my head to the left whilst cycling, I get stutter, if I look forward, it's OK. If I have the handset in one pocket (nearest the BT headphone receiver) no stutter, if I have the handset in the other pocket, I get lots of stutter.
All of this with BT headphones that worked flawlessly with my iPhone 2G...
Hope this gets resolved soon (are you reading HTC?) or the phone going back to Orange for a Nokia N900
I had major stuttering at the start of almost every track with the original ROM. Although as for the OP sometimes it would be fine. Usually it was resolved by a reboot, but not always.
The latest ROM is a lot better (I have installed Generic 2.73.405.5, not MoDaCo's Customer ROM).
There is still occasional stuttering at the start of tracks though when the phone has been on for a long time and I have been making phone calls (the Phone and People apps do not seem to ever shut down once they have been opened - maybe this is the cause), but a reboot now ALWAYS solves it.
Syncing apps also cause a tiny stutter so tweak your apps like Peep etc so as not to be syncing every few minutes.
So, HTC have gotten some of the way there, but they could still improve things from here. Let's hope the next update sorts it (although we're still waiting for 2.73.405.5 to be officially released so who knows when the next one will be?)
Dave
No need to hide. This phone has many problems, still many people seems to ignore them completely. No need to start the "It's your phone, it's strange, I use it a lot and it never happens" saga. The problems are there. And for everyone. The fact you don't notice some bad behaviours doesn't mean the phone is perfect or that your baby is exempt from problems. Let's start:
1) Suboptimal WI-FI performance. On a 802.11g wireless network, connected to an 8Mbps internet connection, the phone can't even saturate the badwidth of the network. Speedtest.net reports an approximate 2Mbps download capacity (EDIT for those who cannot distinguish: 2 megabits, not megabytes). Test it yourself: try to download something from a fast website and try to figure out which is your maximum download transfer speed. You will be disappointed. As a comparative, this means the phone can use 1/4 of the available bandwidth. A SonyEricsson Satio can fully use the available bandwidth, instead (someone told me "tell me a phone that can do it. Now you have one).
2) Stanby freeze: it's there. The phone freezes randomly while in stanby draining all your battery juice. Sometimes happens rarely, sometimes happens frequently.
3) Poor memory space handling: after just 20 days of use from a fresh ROM update, my free memory space on ROM is just 36MB. Without installing big things or hacking anything. Sure, there are fixes produced by the community, log cleaners, temp files deletion utilities, etc. etc. Still, it's a quite a disappointement: it means this phone can't work properly in a "factory state" for much time.
4) "Always on" features: nice, apart the fact in random periods of time the services just stop to download data. The Twitter client doesn't work well. Sometimes you can hear a tweet sound, sometimes it downloads data without the sound, sometimes it downloads nothing until reboot.
5) Poor stability in general: the OS crashes frequently. Less frequently than the first shipped rom. Still it's not very stable.
6) Poor support in general with the updates: finally the SMS stuck problem has been fixed but they spent 3 months for it without a valid solution. The camera fix doesn't hide the fact the sensor is defective.
I don't say this to start a flame, of course, but only because I'm frustrated with these problems. And people, instead of spreading words about them, just pump the hype, including some notorious web sites that have no scope but pushing the hype even further. But the truth is another: this phone doesn't work as expected.
I honestly do not have the problems you're describing..
Your "truth" is very different from mine, but ne1 is allowed to have no
Can't comment on all those, but i hear you, defo had some of them and i'm on my 2nd unit after 2 weeks.
With Nokia it took them at least 6 months to iron out the flaws in their released phones, defo the case with N95 & N96, i didn't expect it to be the case on this phone.
SMS fix? is it? or only in 1.66, because the hotfix's don't work on the 1.44 ROM
I would like to add the Audiobooster problem to that list
well, I don't pretend mine is perfect but there are more things to love than to hate about it. regarding the problems, I think you cannot generalize because I've never experienced some of your issues but I'm bothered by other myself. finally I guess it's just a subjective call anyway...
I had some of your problems when my HD2 was on the original 1.48 WWE Hong Kong ROM. However, since I flashed HSPL, Merlion LEO V1.90 ROM and Radio version 2.07.50.27_2, it's been faster and absolutely stable. No more freezing/"Sleep of Death"/etc...
jonbaker76 said:
I would like to add the Audiobooster problem to that list
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That one really annoys me too. Still can't find a way to get video and audio in sync without manually adjusting the offset whilst encoding. And HTC still can't get the hang of getting Audiomanager to handle AAC files properly (ie sort albums in track order, or show.their album art). Still, it's a lot quicker than my Touch Pro was ; )
Yeap! I'm very happy that I could be refunded. Too many bugs for such a device.
^
If you want something that works out the box, get an iPhone
I have none of your issues and i can prove it with tests and videos.
I wish i had an "unlike" button to use it here. You are frustrated because either you don't know how to work with this phone or you have some bad software or even a bad phone. Replace it!
You are emitting false statements here!
PS: I have the phone for 2 months.
I'd love to see a phone or device that was perfect.
Every piece of hardware has its own problems.
I've been waiting for so long for someone to start a thread entitled as "Let's face it: HD2 has many problems". Eagerly watching this thread for some positive and negative input.
All in all, HTC Sense is at it infant stage. This "is" the culprit. Perhaps by end of this year, we will worship it someday...
To the developer/creator of HTC Sense, please use your common "sense" when trying to convince people to buy your idea. The first major mistake was SMS failure. Totally non-Sense.
1. have to say the WiFi (at work) is slow (2.2Mbps) but speedtest.net is SO unreliable I'll hold off commenting until I try at home tonight on my O2 LLU connection.
2. never had it
3. doesn't happen to me, currently got 107MB free of storage and 266MB of program memory free
4. other than Twitter client being a bit crap it's fine
5. mine doesn't crash
6. updates are fine but I've not had any of the issues others have had in the first place, less so now running a custom ROM
Return your phone and get an iphone/android device.
This kind of issues, even if I haven't myself had most of those you list, have been around with EVERY WM phone that has been made.
Of course WM is far from perfect, but as someone already said to me the advantages far outweigh them, and I can live with them and the need for tweaking.
1) Wifi speed, show me one phone that can transfer at full G speed. The processing power/memory bandwidth/flash memors speed can't handle that.
It also depends a LOT of the software used.
I do get 1-1.5MB/s (8-12Mbps) transfer on wifi between the HD2 and one of my home computers, with WiFi remote access, and on balanced wifi performance. With Resco explorer, I get 150kB/s...
2) Never had one.
3) Depends... could be just normal, now that the album and browser caches have reached their limits, and would stop there. Stock ROM has a lot of useless stuff on it.
etc...
dgtel2 said:
To the developer/creator of HTC Sense, please use your common "sense" when trying to convince people to buy your idea. The first major mistake was SMS failure. Totally non-Sense.
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Sense is fine, but the vanilla Win6.5 fails hard.
And if this thread gets to about page 5, it would probably just turn into another Leo vs iPhone flame war.
For the WiFi "problem": ~ 2 MByte /s is just the normal average speed, even with my laptop I won't get much more on 802.11g .. It also depends on with how many other devices you share your WiFi-channel.
btyeh said:
Sense is fine, but the manilla Win6.5 fails hard.
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What is manila win6.5?!?! Do you even know what manila is? manila = sense!!!
I think there are a lot of 'duff' units, this must be the case with the 'sleep of death' and the crackley call as many of had it but most don't.
I took mine back, got a new one yesterday, no crackles no sleep of death... yet
But true, there are always gonna be problems, it will take months before a near perfect firmware, sorry, rom is out
Thank god for my HTC HD2. No problem here beside the screen shaking. But I hardly notice it.
kilrah said:
1) Wifi speed, show me one phone that can transfer at full G speed. The processing power/memory bandwidth/flash memors speed can't handle that.
It also depends a LOT of the software used.
I do get 1-1.5MB/s (8-12Mbps) transfer on wifi between the HD2 and one of my home computers, with WiFi remote access, and on balanced wifi performance. With Resco explorer, I get 150kB/s...
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SonyEricsson Satio, for example. I download at 900Kb/s with it on the same network (using the same browser, Opera Mobile 10 Beta 3). Poor implementations doesn't mean it's not possible. Do we need 4Ghz quad core processors to use a wireless g network? Obviously not.
3) Depends... could be just normal, now that the album and browser caches have reached their limits, and would stop there. Stock ROM has a lot of useless stuff on it.
etc...
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A bad behaviour, even when happens at factory settings is still a bad behaviour. You have a strange definition of "normal". Surely a phone that in 20 days saturate all the available space on the rom cannot be considered "normal". It's a poor implementation of things. A good implementation would have addressed it from the start by allowing the user WHERE to store that files or giving him an option to clear that files without an hard reset. No, it's not normal. Software design it's a much more complicated thing than those "normal" things.
You know you have problems when your best programs are Hd2tweaks, Bsbtweaks and Resco registry editor. And you are continually wiping out your system and trying new roms. Although Xannytech evolution was a good one.