No, this thread is not about all those "task managers" out there which will list Android's memory usage and offer (since Android 2.2 mostly useless) means to "kill" the apps in memory (iow remove them temporarily from memory).
It's about how we could offer something sensible from both technical and users point of views. Sadly Android seems to be lacking many required features, so ROM cooks might be required.
What Android lacks to offer, and what users seem to try to work around with task managers (or the wish for an "exit button"), are mainly two things:
1. A managable list of current tasks from a user's point of view, like "open windows" in Windows or Linux desktops, which can easily be "closed" or switched between ("Alt-Tab").
2. Information which app does something in background and ways to stop that, mostly to avoid lags and battery drain.
(Memory usage is something for nerds, and Android does a pretty good job for that already... )
So, my idea (with some ideas from posts of other people in this thread in Google's developers list) would be a task manager with three kinds of apps listed (separated or as one list with status indicators - open to discussion or different implementations...):
1. "open apps": listed from appearance of an Activity until "closed" in task manager or (if possible) left with Back button. Maybe it'd be sensible to ignore Activities which are omitted from "recent apps", to ignore e.g. spash screens or notification popups (like SMS popups from Handcent or ChompSMS).
2. "running apps": apps with a started service
3. "scheduled apps": apps which will receive scheduled AlarmManager broadcasts, with time of next broadcast and, for repeating alarms, interval.
For "running" and "scheduled" apps, some kind of "stop" button would be nice.
I don't think simply calling "stopService" is a good idea, since it could be respawned by the system, and removing AlarmManager entries might be a bad idea for functionality of some apps. Instead, some unified new Intent (e.g. app.package.STOP_BACKGROUND) is sent and handled by the app, which could then bring up own warnings. If the Intent is not handled, it would show something like "Stopping background work for this app is not supported. Please try to check its preferences."
For the "open apps", some kind of easy "Alt-Tab" would be cool, e.g. a special line in the notification drawer and/or replaced "(long) Home" handling.
Biggest technical problem is the "appearance of an Activity" and "finalized" (i.e. left with Back button) part for the "open apps". Maybe there also are some issues with querying the AlarmManager, I didn't go into detail there.
The Intent for "please stop any background work until next start (= appearance of Activity)" would be more of a communication than technical trouble.
What do you think about it?
Personally, I've never found a need for any kind of task manager yet. I do sometimes have to kill an errant app that I'm in the process of developing/debugging, but I usually screw things up so bad I need to reboot the phone anyway. Otherwise, the debugger cleans up pretty good when I re-launch whatever I'm developing.
As for normal user day-to-day task management, I find that the stock system does a pretty darn good job in my humble opinion.
I ran SystemPanel (Lite) briefly with stock 2.1, but found little use for it as a developer. Now with Froyo on my phone, I've not had any need for any kind of task manager
Based on my experience thus far with my HTC Desire HD, and feedback from friends and reddit/r/android I've been writing up an overview of pragmatic tips, tricks, and "best practices" to keep your Android happy.
So, I present my Pragmatic Tips to a Healthier Android. Or rather, I would, but seems I need 8 posts first. So I present some of the tips. Hope the are useful to someone.
I'm VERY interested in feedback (corrections) via the members of this forum, if any group of people would be able to correct my errors it would likely be xda-developers, but without my post, not sure I'll get much.
This part of the tips is on managing apps and giving proper app feedback.
Apps Badly Behaving
regularly check the "running apps" screen
if there are apps there you haven't launched since reboot, make a serious judgement call as to whether you need that app or not. check all the options for that app, seeing if you can disable features that might be triggering the "run in background"-ness, if you've disabled all features, and the app isn't a "it needs to do this" (i.e. handsent sms and the like) app, uninstall the bastard. It's poorly written to behave like that, so post a comment on their rating to the effect of "stop running background apps unnecessarily" and "one star" it (if you're as mean as me
apps that stay in the notification bar, and stay listed as "ongoing" (I'm looking at you third party media apps) even when they are not actively doing anything, are behaving badly. Give them the honour of a 1 star rating and a comment as to their offense (if they fix it consider fixing your rating), such as "If you're not 'active' don't stay active, biatch, 1 star till fixed, uninstalled"
Well Intentioned Apps
(AFAIK) androids "intents" and the like should make it unnecessary for apps to "launch" with the OS, or constantly stay active
by this I do NOT mean they just stay resident, that's a good thing, that's Android doing it's "i'm your OS dammit let me manage your memory" thing
Refusing to Quit (Properly)
some apps, usually without good reason, have a quit button. These apps will remain (the Android definition of) active unless you push quit from within the app, (usually) irrespective of how you exit the app
this is similar to the "apps written badly" rant, if they stay in the notification "ongoing" and aren't ongoing, uninstall the app and give the dev a piece of your mind
some apps don't quit when you push "back" and leave the app. This is against Android conventions, so again, give the dev feedback. (And learn how to quit it "it's" way. Or uninstall it, simpler!)
some apps don't quit when you leave them via the home key (see previous point)
some apps never quit. uninstall
Uninstall. Please uninstall?
Manners aren't going to help you here, and I'm not sure why this isn't better documented.
Some (eg. Widgetsoid, F-Secure Mobile Security) apps don't uninstall when you think they should.
This is (in my experience) because you've at some point given those apps "administrative" privilages.
Having these privalges somehow enables them to prevent their own uninstallation (or something along those lines).
For both the aformentioned apps, go into your settings -> security (or locations, YMMV) and find something like "adminstrators allowed" or something. You'll find your apps listed there. Uncheck them, and then you can uninstall them!
Huzzah! No more annoying uninstallable background processes, even if they are neato apps, uninstall should "just work" or at least be warned (and NO widgestoid developer I don't think that the last line of your lengthy readme which points uninstall issues to the FAQ is "obvious enough" as how to uninstall you properly).
good one
+1
useful guide.
+ 1 thanks for you.
After seeing the leaked build of Windows Blue at http://www.theverge.com/2013/3/24/4...creenshots-leak-smaller-live-tiles-options-ui, it got me thinking about what I'd like to see. A video I saw had some good ideas but I know that us XDA members can do better. Said video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdqUsTAWSnY
Personally, I would like to see:
A better default e-mail app
Ability to boot straight into the desktop
More gestures
More optimization
Even faster boot times
What features would you like to see in the next version of Windows?
faster boot times is just greedy as it is my windows 8 machine booting off of an HDD side by side with a mates more powerful win 7 machine booting from SSD, my machine reaches desktop about a second after his does, and I have to go through a boot select screen and click a tile on the start screen.
Blue isn't 9.
Mail app we need yeah. I would add the music and video apps while your at it.
I dont own a touchscreen so gesture wise I dont care.
Booting straight to desktop would be nice I guess, I really dont care as I actually like the new start screen but some people of course ask for that feature anyway.
What I want to see:
Improved music and video apps, frankly, they suck. Music wise I now use "I love music" which isnt too bad but is a little rough around the edges, certainly better than default though
improved mail app (as you already said)
ability to resize the split between sideloaded metro apps
being able to run my desktop on one monitor and metro on another
my running desktop applications should be listed in the running applications sidebar on the left of the screen, that only seems to show metro applications
in the store app being able to list applications from certain developers (for example being able to look at the angry birds space entry and being able to click rovio to show all rovio apps).
While they are at it with releasing windows blue. XNA replacement please
SixSixSevenSeven said:
faster boot times is...
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There is always something faster regarding boot times. There are some Chrome books which boot in 8 seconds compared to my laptops 14. The ability to split metro apps has already been added if you check the link about the leak from the Verge. All your suggestions are very good, hopefully at least a few of then will be in Blue
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
Reboot times are a total red herring. It's a waste of Microsoft's time to put a bunch of people to work shaving off another second or two. Why are people rebooting anyhow?? I never do except for updates. Sleep is faster to enter, faster to return from, doesn't require re-launching my apps, uses only trivial power, and is supported on all hardware I've seen this decade (although I did, about four years ago, encounter an NVidia driver whose preferred form of "screwing up your PC..." install process was to break sleep mode, which I fixed by rolling it back).
Now, if they want to make it so that reboots are needed less often, I'm all for that. More user-mode drivers, and/or modernize the kernel-mode driver stack to reduce how often KMDs require reboots (already much better than XP and below, but still too high). Make Windows Update better about not requiring reboot; I'm willing to close a program or even restart the desktop Explorer session (which takes moments) to avoid rebooting the whole machine.
Fix the <REDACTED> Start search. I don't understand why they took one of the best UI features of Vista, preserved it in Win7, and messed it up in Win8, but the whole segregation of "Apps", "Settings", and "Files" needs to stop, now! Launching programs is one of the very few core requirements of an OS, and the last two versions of Win8 were better at it than Win8 is (specifically, they required fewer clicks and showed more useful info at a glance). That's a travesty.
Metro apps and multi-monitor were already discussed. Instead of reiterating those, I'd like to see more capable Metro apps. Currently, they're locked down to nigh-uselessness from a get-stuff-done perspective. Consequently, I barely ever use them... but that's not good for the ecosystem, because it means that I (and people like myself) have much less incentive to develop them, too. One critical feature: the ability to launch other programs without the target being expressly designed for it.
As a Surface RT owner: remove the stupid prohibition against third-party desktop apps. Make it a hard-to-find setting if you must, but let me unlock it without needing kernel-mode hackery.
As a Surface RT owner: give me drivers! The USB port is already useful, but it could be a lot more useful.
As a Surface RT owner: add support for the low-power standby core of the Tegra 3. Battery life is good already but could be better.
Integrate something like OblyTile into the Start screen. Default desktop-app tiles are ugly.
Worth asking for: multiple (virtual) desktops? I mean, it's "just another app" now, right? I hate that in 2013 I still need to use third-party utiltiies to get this feature that all other common desktop environments have.
Please don't kill off the SUA (Subsustem for Unix Applications)! At the very least, open-source it when you drop official support, so the community can introduce some long-overdue fixes. But seriously, that thing is useful. Cygwin is a nasty hack by comparison.
A virtualization environment that supports high-end graphics would be nice. There's a lot of games that run like crap on NT6 but don't run on virtual XP machines using any of Microsoft's virtualization environments. That directly contributes to the market share of third-party virtualization software. MS used to be good at this VM thing for uses other than servers...
Lots more, but this post is long enough as is. That covers most of the gripes I have at least once a week using this OS.
Most of these are from the viewpoint of an RT user, unless noted.
Critical:
Allow unsigned desktop apps
Allow third-party Metro apps (sideloading)
An alarm clock on RT
Allow metro apps to run backgrounded without requiring them to be pinned to the lock screen
WinRT lacks some major features in the API set (from what I've experienced, lack of client-side cert support for SSL, lack of decent background capabilities, and lack of VPN, though they claim to be fixing the last one)
Go back to the idea that developers create the platform and stop trying to mimic Apple by closing the ecosystem down
Desired:
Allow a hotzone for corners, instead of just a hotspot (x86, mostly)
Better mail app
Allow start screen wallpaper customization without tedious hacks
Allow fine grained tuning of which settings are synced between computers (I don't want the same wallpaper on my tablet and desktop, for example, so I have to turn off syncing all customization settings)
Open up the ARM DDK
Documentation on what features are lacking/missing on ARM Vs. x86.
The current sideloading situation works fine for me, though I agree with the rest of those. I might care more if I found Metro less useless in general.
Hmm, my Lenovo Twist cold boots in about 3 seconds. Doesn't get much better than that.
Sent from my SGH-I777 using xda app-developers app
It really doesn't, actually. The default "shut down" behavior on Win8 is to reboot the machine, and then enter hibernation right before showing the login screen. This is one of the lowest-RAM-usage points in the operation of a PC, so both entering and leaving hibernation here is extremely fast. When you "cold boot" your system, all that is happening is the power-on self test (which is very fast on modern hardware), followed by the OS resuming from the minimal hibernation image (which could easily take three seconds or possibly less with an SSD but not a ton of RAM). Bam, you're at the login prompt in what seems like no time at all!
If you want to do a true cold boot, you'll need to either disable hibernation boot (one of the easiest ways to do this is to disable hibernation entirely using "powercfg /h off", probably must be run as Admin) or you'll need to remove power while the system is running (as in, remove the power cord and remove or drain the battery without allowing it to enter sleep or hibernate). You can get an idea of the true bootup time just by rebooting the machine, but a machine built for Win8 probably won't show you the point where the "shutdown" portion switches off with the "bootup" portion; using EFI, that whole thing can be hidden.
Wouldn't electricity bills go through the roof if all 5 PC's in my household were on hibernate 24/7 365?
Sent from my Nexus 7 using XDA Premium HD app
mmmcfc said:
Wouldn't electricity bills go through the roof if all 5 PC's in my household were on hibernate 24/7 365?
Sent from my Nexus 7 using XDA Premium HD app
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They're off when they're in hibernate. Hibernate saves the state to disk then completely powers off the computer. You could literally unplug it for 5 years and it would still have the state.
Yep, hibernate's entire point is that it uses no power. However, maybe you meant sleep instead, also known as suspend-to-RAM and which does use a trickle of power. It's a small trickle, though; a PC in Sleep mode draws less than five watts (and most draw only one or two). Five PCs in sleep mode, assuming they're big, beefy, and incredibly inefficient, plus have every kind of wake-on-event (wake-on-LAN, wake-on-click, wake-on-timer, etc.) option enabled, will draw about 25W - non-trivial but less than half what a typical incadescent light bulb draws. Realistically, it would be closer to 5W, especially if some of them are laptops (which only use a portion of a watt).
Depending on the percentage of time that the PC is on anyhow and how efficient its sleep mode is, you may actually be wasting power by taking the time to turn it off, then on again (requiring restarting its programs) all the time. Entering and exiting sleep is effectively instant.
I for one would love to see custom backgrounds on the Start screen, as well as Google Talk support in the Messaging app. One of the main reasons I still have to keep a GMail tab open on Chrome, so I can receive IMs.
Also I would be pleased if they returned Google Calendar syncing after the updates a few days ago. I was very annoyed when all my Calendar events disappeared, but seems to have gotten better since I worked around that with the subscriptions feature in Outlook.
More functionality in the Metro/Modern part of the OS would also be good, but I have already seen that happening with the recent leaks.
Edit: And I also would love to see Aero Glass with Blur come back in the Desktop. Although there are a few hacks to get it working, most do not have similar functionality to Windows 8 or are buggy. The only good one imo doesn't support 32 bit.
How come my windows phone syncs with google fine. Yet windows doesnt.
Google have more sync options than EAS and contrary to MS's claim EAS is still active until june or july.
All they have done is made the mail and people apps worse not better.
Anyway. Supposedly in the blue leak IE11 now has stubs for WebGL support. If this is true then windows blue presumably has OpenGL support, possible for store apps too. OpenGL, even if it is just the ES subset, on RT has been an often demanded feature.
So many android and iOS apps are written with OpenGLES, if microsoft wanted an app rich store then it really would have made sense to support OpenGLES to allow porting of iOS and android apps to windows without having to be rewritten for DirectX11 (not a simple task in many cases).
Oh, overall they made Mail a lot better... but it pisses me off that for people who already had a working Google EAS connection, they went and disabled it. I'm holding off on updating my other devices for now. As for "more sync options than EAS", this is technically true (and the new version of Mail offers to set them up for you), but the others are not as well integrated (one protocol to provide contacts, email, calendars, and security policies).
WebGL support I'm actually kind of skeptical of; the web is a very hostile environment and video drivers are a frightening combination of high-value targets and shaky security. I'm concerned about the attack surface exposed by enabling WebGL. However, it's true that OpenGL, even just OGLES, would be a huge boon to the platform. Windows and DirectX may still rule the roost for PC games, but even there their lead is eroding. In the mobile space, OpenGL has left DirectX in the dirt.
At least with windows 7.x you could switch ROMs and side load useful apps, with this safeboot thing and Microsoft's lame attitude to give us more of the features and apps that we want it's no wonder why Windows Phone 8 fourms and blogs are so boring. Way to go Microsoft.
Agreed. I used to come here every day but, now it's once a week (kind of how it was on PPCgeeks.com). No roms, No interop unlocks, no unlocks period.
If you want more discussion about WP8, I suggest going to WPcentral.com...It's pretty active over there...
I really wish a hack of some type would hit, this is getting old. I just want my custom colors back (like I have with WP7).... Advanced Config I miss you !!!
Nobody has been able to find an exploit yet , but I don't really mind lack of activity in forms though as long as cobwebs don't settle upon the entire ecosystem itself we'll be fine
DavidinCT said:
Agreed. I used to come here every day but, now it's once a week (kind of how it was on PPCgeeks.com). No roms, No interop unlocks, no unlocks period.
If you want more discussion about WP8, I suggest going to WPcentral.com...It's pretty active over there...
I really wish a hack of some type would hit, this is getting old. I just want my custom colors back (like I have with WP7).... Advanced Config I miss you !!!
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Yea I agree that WP Central has lost more action going on but it's all the same stuff; I mean how many reviews of itsdagram, Facebook, Angry Birds and Skype can one handle before they get bored.
I always use to wonder why XDA turned into Android forum almost over night; now I know why its thanks to Microsoft. I feel sorry for Nokia though they took a big risk and now MS is being stubborn.
sinister1 said:
Yea I agree that WP Central has lost more action going on but it's all the same stuff; I mean how many reviews of itsdagram, Facebook, Angry Birds and Skype can one handle before they get bored.
I always use to wonder why XDA turned into Android forum almost over night; now I know why its thanks to Microsoft. I feel sorry for Nokia though they took a big risk and now MS is being stubborn.
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Agreed, it's the same *****ing over there sometimes. Don't get me wrong, it's a good site if you want new and useful Windows Phone news. This site used to be a WM haven, just like PPCgeeks was. As that is all there was at the time, we had WM and BB...they were all mainly used by business people or hackers like ourselves.
WP7.x was pretty hackable after a while (with custom roms for most phones and interop unlock for about 90% of the models) so it was pretty active but, now with everyone moving to WP8 (ex WP7 users and converts) and No hacks yet, it's slowed down to almost nothing.
Android is mostly hackable and most phones have or NEED a custom rom, so this became a haven for Android users. And for now, as long as they are not going in this area and trolling, there is no issue with it or at least, I don't have an issue with it.
I do think it's a matter of time, they will find a exploit in WP8. I know why MS locked it down, once WP7 was hacked, it opened the doors for the pirates and some people took advantage if it. Sure there was some cool underground apps but, it just opened the system for the pirates. They wanted to lock down WP8 to make the higher end DEVs come and create the apps and games people want, to grow the system.
Nokia was paid pretty well to make a change to WP and over all they are doing very well with it...and their market is growing.
I'm stil deciding if I am going to pick up the Lumia 928 or stick with my HTC 8X(full price, Not giving up my unlimited data)....Hmmmmm... I just wish I could use Advanced Config to get my custom tile colors back
^stick with 8x at least till Nokia world sometime in September because surprises are on its way
Personally I like the very secure nature of my windows phone, I have rimmed more than my share of devices over the years, so its kind of refreshing to k ow this nuts hard to crack. Nokia did take a big risk but I think its been good for both companies. Nokia has done well with exclusive apps in a starved market and there devices are aimed well at a growing group of android overloaded users. With apps like tumble, netflix, Hulu and others coming over the devices are getting more main stream support and with time that will pay good dividends too. All in all I have found little reason to "root" this device other than for the hell of it. They come pretty lean on apps out of box. The biggest thing people seem to be trying to do is get tethering to work without paying out to a carrier for it. Personally if that's basically the reason your wanting to rom so bad, go back to android its far easier get going. I ramble now though, to sum up phone runs great unrommed, clean eco system and very secure setup makes for an all around pleasant device. I think special rimming is more or less unneeded for these devices. Been running unrommed windows mobile 7 and 8 now for about two years collectively. Have android tablets all rommed and a s3 rommed as a backup device.
Sent from my RM-878_nam_usa_100 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Meh... I considered WP7 without hacks to be nigh-unusable, even though I stuck with a stock ROM. No way to have apps open files automatically, for example (but I could manually add the registry entries, and could write apps that knew how to handle them). No way to access the filesystem (but I could sideload Kindle ebooks using homebrew file managers). No way back up app data or messages (except with homebrew). Minimal control of theming (as a class, this was one of the biggest homebrew categories). No real control over multitasking (I like that the default behavior is so conserving of battery life, but sometimes I don't *want* Puzzle Quest 2 or Fruit Ninja to have to go through its entire launch process just because I switched tasks or let the phone sleep for a bit!). Severe limit on sideloaded apps (I have over 30 of them, counting small utilities that that I developed, and not counting outdated versions, redundent apps, or anything else I removed). No listener sockets (though this didn't require a very fancy hack). No C++ code reuse (same as the server sockets). No way to tell how much space each app was using (but there's a homebrew for that).
WP8 fixes many of the worst problems. We can now register filetype handlers (though Kindle still doesn't register .MOBI or .PRC, so no more sideloading my ebooks for now...), use native code (with restrictions, but it's better than the default on WP7), and theme our phones (well, a litttttle bit more than before; still not enough). They added some much-requested features (SMS backup, variable text size, ability to control the browser app bar at least a bit, WiFi on while sleeping, Skype integration) and of course the change in OS brought many other improvements (multi-core, removable SD cards, higher resolutions, etc.). However, it still has some big problems of its own. True multitasking is still very limited. Data backup is still iffy. Still no filesystem access (or ability to do anything outside an app sandbox except the official Settings tools). Still very limited sideloading.
I promise you, though, people are working on it. I'm one of them, and several of the other names you know from WP7 hacking are as well.
People like GoodDayToDie & netham45 make the windows forums so much fun to follow
nikufellow said:
^stick with 8x at least till Nokia world sometime in September because surprises are on its way
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Click to collapse
Yea but, I am on Verizon....After a release of a model it will take 6 months for Verizon to get a phone that is almost outdated on release.
The 8X is so limited on space that it's driving me nuts, If I find app or game I want to try, I have to uninstall a Paid app to install it. It's getting too old. 8X on format is 11.5gb and the Lumia 928 is 23.5gb, a little over double the space might be worth it, depending on what I can get it for, of course.
The blogs are dead because places like XDA that centralize around modding your phone to improve performance isn't necessary when WP8 software already performs flawlessly. Go to blogs like WPCentral and the Windows Phone community is alive and well swapping out our black Lumia shells for yellow and talking about games and apps. Pretty much doing what we should be doing on a phone, not repairing phones that came broken.
Flawlessly? Ahahahahaha
Still no app data backup machanism.
Still no custom themes.
Still no way to sideload XAP files (unless they are "company apps") without a PC.
Still no filesystem access.
Still no way to control the permissions an app has (what if I want to use the app, but don't want to give it access to my camera?)
Still no way remove "Settings" apps.
Still no way to do true multitasking (not the restricted and often crippled things that the official APIs call multitasking).
Still no way to overwrite file associations (you can choose them when opening a file that multiple apps claim to support, but that's it).
Still no way to change the default browser or email client or dialer.
Still no way to install apps to the SD card.
Still have only limited access to Bluetooth.
Still no way to browse, much less edit, the registry.
Still no way to sideload large numbers of (non-"company") apps.
...
Seriously, go look at the list of things that are possible with WP7 homebrew (never mind WinMo or Android or iOS), and then see how many of them are possible with WP8 right now. It's a joke. MS added some (much needed) features, but also took away some things that I think are vitally important, and took away our ability to re-create them for the new OS... unless and until we break it as we have broken OSes in the past.
You imply that WP8 didn't come "broken" and therefore doesn't need modding? Bull.
I've been wanting to root/unlock my Lumia for one purpose only, sideloading my own developed apps. It's gruesome to try an app in the emulator all the time, but in a month that will be fixed with an AppHub account. And after that my real purpose for rooting/unlocking is gone.
Always fun to see what's possible on the unlocked device though, code-wise.
Sent from my Lumia 920 using Board Express
GoodDayToDie said:
Flawlessly? Ahahahahaha
Still no app data backup machanism.
Still no custom themes.
Still no way to sideload XAP files (unless they are "company apps") without a PC.
Still no filesystem access.
Still no way to control the permissions an app has (what if I want to use the app, but don't want to give it access to my camera?)
Still no way remove "Settings" apps.
Still no way to do true multitasking (not the restricted and often crippled things that the official APIs call multitasking).
Still no way to overwrite file associations (you can choose them when opening a file that multiple apps claim to support, but that's it).
Still no way to change the default browser or email client or dialer.
Still no way to install apps to the SD card.
Still have only limited access to Bluetooth.
Still no way to browse, much less edit, the registry.
Still no way to sideload large numbers of (non-"company") apps.
...
Seriously, go look at the list of things that are possible with WP7 homebrew (never mind WinMo or Android or iOS), and then see how many of them are possible with WP8 right now. It's a joke. MS added some (much needed) features, but also took away some things that I think are vitally important, and took away our ability to re-create them for the new OS... unless and until we break it as we have broken OSes in the past.
You imply that WP8 didn't come "broken" and therefore doesn't need modding? Bull.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If there is one thing I do not understand about the new SDK APIs, is why on earth an app can not register itself to open file formats reserved by the system. IMO thats the most retarded idea ever implemented in the history of computing. And to make the retarded thing completely retarded, they made it so most common files are handled by system apps, so you can not override the file association.
I am really wondering what is microsoft going to do about these things. If they really want a marketplace full of games, facebook, youtube and instagram apps, then they should stick to their current plan. WP will never get useful in a broad sense.
I hope the update this fall brings new stuff, otherwise the platform will die soon.
GoodDayToDie said:
Flawlessly? ... You imply that WP8 didn't come "broken" and therefore doesn't need modding? Bull.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Although I don't agree with much of his bill-of-particulars, I have to agree with GDTD's sentiment.
Probably, modders need to correct deficiencies. I'm down with MS or anybody else who steps up. I'm in no hurry to crack my OS open right now, though.
I am especially offended at Microsoft's pitiful PDF reader attempt. And some of the apps in the store make me squint. I want to see the author "Google" emblazoned on my YouTube app, not a third party dev. I sure hope MS is putting these apps under a microscope.
The joy of homebrew (and of a developer forum, like this one) is, even if your goals are different from mine, it's possible for you to make your own changes to the device. It's yours; you control it. That's what security *means*, or at least what it's supposed to mean: you (the owner) are in control of what happens.
Ever since the iPhone, though, the trend has been twoards more and more lockdown, taking control away from the device owner and branding this as "security". I don't like it, so I aim to break it. Ideally, we break it in ways that only work with a local attack; I don't want somebody else able to control my device (that really would be the opposite of security)... but I do want to control it myself!
Part of the problem is that there have been no updates in recent months. Portico came out, Nokia dropped some new firmwares last month. But largely, nothing has changed in WP8 since launch. Personally, I find that boring. Maybe I should have an Android phone on the side to keep me entertained with updates, but I find Windows Phone much more usable day-to-day.
It has been more than 6 months since the WP8 launch, and GDR1 didn't really add much. Microsoft should have planned to have GDR2 out by now, even if it meant postponing some features for GDR3. I think most of us would rather have small quarterly updates to WP8, rather than a massive upgrade once a year. It's starting to feel like WP7 and the Mango anticipation all over again, now that it sounds like WP8.1 might be delayed into 2014. Hopefully they come through with their vaporware enthusiast program to keep our attention in the meantime.
I agree with the OP. Cobwebs on this side of the section totally. A thread in a week may be? But there is something I often read on many forums. People who are happy (I know it's a very wide term) with their devices, I.e don't run into problems with their devices, see no need to lurk around. So actually, it is a good sign. It shows how well-thought after a WP device is.
And GoodDayToDie, even though I agree with everything u've noted down, I don't quite believe WP needs all of that.
Still no app data backup machanism. - Umm...Data Sense?
Still no custom themes. - Fair Enough, but again, WP IS NOT meant to be themed to the T
Still no way to sideload XAP files (unless they are "company apps") without a PC. - I believe this is for security reasons.
Still no filesystem access. - Why do you even want that when the system is running flawless, (yes the same word u scorned at.)
Still no way to control the permissions an app has (what if I want to use the app, but don't want to give it access to my camera?) - LOL! You gotta be kidding me right?
Android has the worst permission management I have ever seen in my adult life. Android gives wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy more information out than any OS out there.
Still no way remove "Settings" apps. Umm..u sure u want that?
Still no way to do true multitasking (not the restricted and often crippled things that the official APIs call multitasking). Multi-tasking is really good with WP8.
Still no way to overwrite file associations (you can choose them when opening a file that multiple apps claim to support, but that's it). - Fair enough, but not a deal breaker either.
Still no way to change the default browser or email client or dialer. - I believe you are again entering the territory of themeing, already replied above. Every OS comes with it's own email client. I don't see the point here.
Still no way to install apps to the SD card. - Fair enough. By far the best point in your list.
Still have only limited access to Bluetooth. - In what way?
Still no way to browse, much less edit, the registry. - Again, WHY? WHy mend it when it's not broken.
Still no way to sideload large numbers of (non-"company") apps - U can download the app(paid or otherwise) from the App store on your computer, put it on the SD card and say install from the Store App on the phone. Simple?
DataSense has nothing even remotely to do with backing up (and restoring) app data; where'd you get that idea? Vital feature that homebrew eventually made avaialble in WP7 but is missing in WP8.
"IS NOT meant" nothing! Somewhere under all that sandboxing and locked-down UI is a general-purpose OS running on top of highly capable hardware. It's "meant" to be whatever the owner fo the device *wants* it to be, including (in the case of many, many people if the popularity of WP7 homebrew apps is any sign) theming. Stop being an apologist for Microsoft; it's one thing to say "extensive theming wasn't implemented because other features were higher priority" but when you start trying to tell me that I'm not supposed to theme it, you seriously need to put down the Kool-Ade. Besides, the very claim is ludicrous to the point of disingenious; have you *seen* the WP8 ads? They all stress the customizability of the Start screen. To the point of suggesting you can "meet" a person simply through how they have their phone set up... those ads freaking scream "customize me!" Then you discover there's only a handful of pre-set colors, two background styles, and the ability to mess with the tiles; nothing else.
No, it is quite absolutely *not* for "security" reasons. Security means the owner of the device controlling the device's behavior. If somebody else (like, for example, the manufacturer of the device) is controlling its behavior, that is not security; it's lockdown. The sideloading restriction can only be called security if it's not your device but actually belongs to Microsft. Screw that. Besides, that argument makes no sense anyhow; if I can pay my $99 and sideload with a PC, why can't I sideload without one (or without paying)? The marketplace has DRM to mitigate piracy and that's a darn weak excuse to cripple a device anyhow.
When I can load my Puzzle Quest 2 savegames and other game progress and high scores, copy my PGP keychain, sideload my Kindle ebooks into the Kindle app (yes, this is possible on WP7), extract or replace the built-in audio files, and delete the junk which accumulates in the OS and uses up storage space (without hard resetting the device), then I will stop considering the level of filesystem access a problem. Until then, "running flawless" is quite worthy of scorn indeed.
Wow, I seriously question your reading comprehension. I never mentioned Android in this point, or anywhere else (except to point out that it has a lot of homebrew). But, for your information, the default permissions / capabilities handling in Android is just as broken as in WP8. The difference is that with Android, it is possible (CyanogenMOD did this, for example) to install apps without actually granting them all the permissions they ask for. On WP7, this wasn't properly possible yet, but I was working on a system to do it that hooked the app install process and allowed people to uncheck app capabilities they didn't want to permit.
Um yes, I'd like to remove the non-functioning Samsung apps (until they are fixed) that are taking up space on my phone's storage and making the Settings list longer. I can always re-install them if needed. Every other carrier or OEM app is removable; why should these get special treatment just because they have a field in their app manifest that says "install me in the Settings hub"?
Multitasking - true multitasking, where multiple apps can run at once - is nigh-nonexistent on WP8. Aside from things like audio background agents and once-every-30-minutes-you-get-a-few-seconds-of-CPU-time scheduled tasks, there basically isn't any multitasking (of third-party apps) at all. Fast app switching is *not* multitasking; every app aside from the main one is suspended, unable to do amything until brought into the foreground.
Changing file associations obviusly isn't a deal-breaker, or I wouldn't be using the phone... but definitely a problem. Windows has offered the ability to control file associations since at least Win95, and I think it was possible in 3.1 as well...
Changing the default browser and email client and calendar and dialer aren't "theming" by any conventional definition, but the point made above about theming stands anyhow: it's a matter of personalization. It can also be a matter of functionality (for example, the built-in email client can't handle S/MIME encrypted email at all and has no PGP integration). Or a matter of usability (I use folders a lot; it's a pain needing to expand a menu to get to them)! Or something else... the important point is that it should be possible. Every OS comes with an email client, but every OS except iOS (and WP) allows you to change the default email client, too. This isn't even hard to implement (the relevant registry keys were present on WP7, at least; carrying over the API to control them wouldn't have been hard at all); it's once again a case of Microsoft intentionally restricting what you can do with your phone. If I wanted a mobile OS designed by a control freak, I'd buy an iPhone...
Nothing more really needs to be said here, except that with filesystem access (create a symlink or junction in the apps folder, for example) this would be possible...
Many BT profiles, such as HID devices (for mice and keyboards), are missing from WP8. So far as I know, apps can't use the Headset profile either; the pseudo-turn-by-turn navigation on WP7 would give its instructions via the car's BT if possible, but Nokia/Here Drive must use the phone's speakerphone speaker instead.
When I can change default browser and text editor, create my own themes, enable features that a ROM shipped disabled (have you seen the thread by the guy who can't get visual voicemail?), sideload high-privilege apps (without paying for the privilege), and remove root certificates of CAs that I don't trust (in WP7, these were stored in the registry), then I will stop considering the level of registry access to be a problem.
If they're from the store, they aren't really sideloaded, just downloaded on a different machine. I'm talking homebrew, stuff that the isn't yet, or never will be, or *can't* be (because it breaks some policy of Microsoft's, or requires high privileges to work) put in the store. Besides, many of the most popular WP8 models don't have an SD card slot at all.
GoodDayToDie said:
Flawlessly? Ahahahahaha
Still no app data backup machanism.
Still no custom themes.
Still no way to sideload XAP files (unless they are "company apps") without a PC.
Still no filesystem access.
Still no way to control the permissions an app has (what if I want to use the app, but don't want to give it access to my camera?)
Still no way remove "Settings" apps.
Still no way to do true multitasking (not the restricted and often crippled things that the official APIs call multitasking).
Still no way to overwrite file associations (you can choose them when opening a file that multiple apps claim to support, but that's it).
Still no way to change the default browser or email client or dialer.
Still no way to install apps to the SD card.
Still have only limited access to Bluetooth.
Still no way to browse, much less edit, the registry.
Still no way to sideload large numbers of (non-"company") apps.
...
Seriously, go look at the list of things that are possible with WP7 homebrew (never mind WinMo or Android or iOS), and then see how many of them are possible with WP8 right now. It's a joke. MS added some (much needed) features, but also took away some things that I think are vitally important, and took away our ability to re-create them for the new OS... unless and until we break it as we have broken OSes in the past.
You imply that WP8 didn't come "broken" and therefore doesn't need modding? Bull.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only thing I can agree with you on is the file system, bluetooth, and not being able to override the default apps associations (seriously, the default apps is the most retarded idea ever).